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Home My WebLink AboutZBA-06/04/1992 HEARING TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS REGULAR MEETING OF THURSDAY, JUNE 4, 1992 Board Members Present: Chairman, ~erard P. Goehringer Members: Doyen, Grigonis, Dinizio, Villa Secretary for ZBA: Linda Kowalski, and 25 persons'in audience Appeal # 4107 Applicant (s): Renee Pelletier Location of Property: 550 Fasbender Avenue, Peeonic County Tax Map No.: 1000-67-6-4 The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:32 p.m. and read the Notice of Hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a sketch of a survey indicating an existing one and one-half (1 1/2) story frame home, somewhat crowded toward the most or the greatest width of the property, which is right at the end of the road. And I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody who would like to be heard on this application? I had absolutely no problems with my voice before I walked in here, for some strange reason I must have run into some ragweed or something on my way in. And now it is breaking up. This is the first application of the evening, Renee Pelletier. Could I ask yot~ to use the .mike here. RENEE PELLETIER: There is nothing much more to say. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You never know, we may have another McDonald's hearing or something. You may want to come up and you know and voice your opinion in front of two hundred and fifty (250) people so. RENEE PELLETIER: [ don't think so. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You don't think so. You have a partially constructed deck, which [ had seen. RENEE PELLETIER: Oh, you did, you have been down there. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes. And what do you want to tell us about it. RENEE PELLETIER: Nothing. Except that I would like to build more right in there just zo make the house look prettier. Page 2 Public Hearing Sou~hold ZBA. 6/4/92 CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, that is extending from your front stoop to the deck on the opposite side, which is on the south side or so on the property. Okay., and the deck is five by ? ( 5 x ?) approximately? RENEE PELLETIER: The walkway. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yea. I just don't have a distance in there, that is reason why I asked the question. RENEE PELLETIER: I never put it in. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. You know what you do, if you wouldn't mind, would you just measure it for us and give us a call. Just run a tape on it and tell us how long it is. Now the elevation of that is approximately the height of the stoop, is that correct? MS. PELLETIER: Oh, well yes, if you walk on the front stoop, but I have a copy and big boulders and that sort of slopes. It is built lower to the ground actually toward the... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Toward the duck area on the south side, on the south side of the house. You are doing great. This will remain opened and will never be roofed or anything of this nature. It is very simply a variance to connect these two. MS. PELLETIER: Right. There will be a fence, you know a rail going. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGEI~: A rail going, right. Okay, I thank you very much. I was hoping to get my voice back. Is there anybody else who would Hke to speak in favor or this application? Anybody Hke to speak against this application? Questions from Board Members? Hearing no further questions, I will make a motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later. Lorraine A. MiHerl (Transcribed by tapes recorded 6/4/92.) ( End of hearing. Informal discussion with Ms. Pelletier Page 3 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you so much for coming in, we will have a decision for you right after you give us that measurement. Is that alright? It is nothing I can do tonight, just call us within the next few days. MS. PELLETIER: It is probably twenty-two (22) feet, but I don't know exactly. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have nineteen on the original ba~k of the building permit, but I don't know if that is from the corner of the house, or if that extends all the way to the existing thing that you have over there now, that is the question. And rather than be inaccurate, we would rather be accurate. Okay, thank you. Page 4 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 Appeal # 4108 Applicant(s): Daniel and Pamela Tuthill Location of Property: 32660 County Route 48, Peoonic, NY County Tax Map No.: 1000-74-3-11~ The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:40 p.m. and Read the Notice of Hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We again have a sketch, it is not a sketch, it is a copy of a survey from Roderick VanTuyl P.C. dated January 31, 1984, indicating a rather large two-story frame home, very stately on the corner of County Road 48 and Carroll Avenue. The nature of this application based upon a sketch placed in the file and appears based - upon this one (1) bedroom downstairs is to be utilized. And appears one (1) bedroom upstairs is to be utilized. Are the Tuthills here? ......... How do you do. Is there anything you would like to add to the hearing? MRS. PAMELA TUTHILL: Not really. I mean it is pretty well stated on the application. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Is there any reason why you chose one (1) bedroom upstairs and one (1) bedroom downstairs. MRS. TUTHILL: It is the layout of the house. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I should point out to. you, we normally inspect the interior of the houses~ but this was a relatively Iow impact special permit in reference to the size of the house, so that was one of the reasons why we did not come over. The Board still could have an interest in looking at it based upon any information we might accept or reject at the hearing here, so, we still could be knocking on your door, okay. Thank you very much. MRS. TUTHILL: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the application? Questions from Board members. MEMBER VILLA: Yea, is it definitely just two (2) bedrooms? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That is what it shows here. MEMBER VILLA: It is hard to say from the sketch. Page 5 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Assuming the house is positioned in the same direction that we are sitting on the corner Carroll Road, it appears to be the south east corner bedroom and then upstairs is the south west corner, more or less, right? MRS. TUTHILL: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And that is it. MRS. TUTHILL: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Okay Bob. MEMBER VILLA: Yea, I just wanted clarification. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Hearing no further comment, I will make a motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later. End of hearing. ( by: (' .+ ~ ' ~.~ Lorraine A. Miller (Transcribed by tapes record 6/4/92) Page 6 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 Appeal # 4109 Applicant(s): Margaret Leahy Location of Property: 1185 Wiggins Lane, East Marion, NY County Tax Map No.: 1000-35-5-8 The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:42 p.m. and read the Notice of Hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey dated June 19, 1978 from Roderick VanTuyl, P.C. The nature of this application is an elongation or an extension of the existing covered porch area, which is somewhat nestled into the front of this house. We will ask the applicant to further state the reasons. Is there anything you would like to state for the record, Mrs. Leahy, Miss Leahy? MARGARET LEAHY: No, as I stated in my ..... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Could I just ask you to use the mike, if you wouldn't mind. MS. LEAHY: As I stated in my application, when I bought the house, I thought I had a lot of peace and quiet in the back. As it turned out, i had to take out a lot of trees and I get a lot of traffic from Route 25 and that noise. And in contrast I have a rather lovely view and I would just like to extend the porch. It is about two (2) feet above ground. And I have spoken to my neighbors and they don't have any problem with it. It would be covered with shrubbery, naturally, and I think it would be rather unobtrusive. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So, we are talking the same grade as the existing enclosed, when I say it, I am not referring enclosed, I mean roofed porch, okay. MS. LEAHY: Not roofed, exactly, just an extension of the porch itself. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. And the only improvements to the deek, would be a railing, which you would probably be required to put in, by the Building Inspector. Is that correct? MS. LEAHY: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And the deck is eight (8) feet out and sixteen (16) feet wide, long. MS. LEAHY: That would be the extension. The current deck is six by sixteen (6 x 16). Page 7 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So, again eight (8) feet out and then sixteen (16) feet along. MS. LEAHY: Right. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. There may be a question on this. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the 'application? Bob, you got a question on this? MEMBER VILLA: No, I don't have any questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You don't have any questions. Okay. Anybody have a question? Okay, I guess there is no questions. Thank you. Seeing no further questions, I will make a motion closing reserving decision until later. End of hearing. Lorraine A. Miller (Transcribed by tape recorded 6/4/92) Page 8 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 Appeal # 4101 Applicant(s): John Rowan Location of Property: 435 Soundview Avenue Extension, Southold, NY County Tax Map No.: 1000-50-2-6 The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:45 p.mo and Read the Notice of Hearing and the application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The application has a site plan in the file, several pictures of the existing deck, and their respective dates and a survey dated January 28, 1992 indicating this two-story frame house and the wooden concrete part of it, which is the nature of this application. Is Mr. Rowan here? How do you do sir. Is there anything you would like to state for the record? MR. JOHN ROWAN: I don't think so, unless you have any questions. This is an existing deck, It has been in place there for twenty (20) years. We recently sold this place and are trying to get a C.O. for the buyer. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, you have already closed title on it. MR. ROWAN: We have, yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, so you are merely just trying to bring the thing up to date. MR. ROWAN: Yes, exactly so. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Inadvertently, for some strange reason, this is the only one (1) I did not do a field inspection on. Okay, I don't 'know ff I will vote on it tonight or not, to be honest with you, without having looked at it. So, I admit that, for some strange reason, I have no idea why I missed it, but I did. MR. ROWAN: The photographs that I gave to your office last week, I just took two' (2) weeks ago. They represent the very latest status of this. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is the concrete area that you are referring to on here, that is ground level, is it not? Approximate ground level. MR. ROWAN: Maybe six (6) inches above it. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We will see what developes, I thank you very much for your pictures, they are very helpful. Is there anybody else Page 9 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 who would like to speak in favor or against this application? Seeing no hands. Any questions from Board members? Anybody have a particular problem with this application. Appears not. Okay, we earnestly will give you a decision as quickly as possible sir, and I thank you for coming in. Hearing no further testimony, I make a motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later. MEMBER GRIGONIS: Second. Tape off. Lorraine A. Miller (Transcribed by Tapes record 6/4/92) Page 10 Public Hearing Southold Z.BA 6/4/92 APPEAL # 4111 Applicant(s): John G. and Marie Elena Brim Location of Property: Northerly side of Private Road (extending off East Avenue) Fishers Island~ NY FIDCO Block 18, Combined Lots lA & lB County Tax Map No.: 1000-4-3-3 The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:50 p.m. and Read the Notice of Hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: A map from Chandler, Palmer and King indicating a somewhat of a modified location what was originally granted. You MR. STEPHEN HAM: First, I would like to thank you for getting us on the calendar on a reasonably short notice. Just to get right to the heart of it, I have Oliver Cope here, who is the architect who's familar with site conditions. And he has prepared a number of sketches for everyone to look at~ which explains why we are back .~-~x here. We certainly appreciate the granting of the variance, but we continue to have problems with the variance as proposed and. this will fall straight back. When I was here in April, I think I may have over emphasized the preservation of the cherry trees at the expense of emphasizing the extent of regrading and excavation that would be required under our plan as origianally proposed. And this demonstrates graphically the extent, the difference between the two (2) plans. Our current plan, which keeps us twenty-nine (29) feet from the wetland and ten (10) feet, or ten point two (10.2) feet from the side lot line, which we appreciate your concern as to trying to put the court at three (3) feet from the line, which may have set an undue precident for courts, but now, we are within the six (6) foot minimum for conforming tennis courts under the zoning ordinance. Also, I would like to emphasize that part of our practical difficuliy ~'~ here is, not just the lot eonfiguation, which has the reduced rear yard, but also, the fact that the topography, specifically that hill, and you have all been out there, and there is significant regrading or excavation and regrading that would be required under that plan that you have approved. I think Mr. Cope has some numbers which were, he has corrected. 'MR. COPE: A change, because on the way out here, we prepared them this afternoon~ and they were done in cubic feet and I said I really thought cubic yards was the thing. But the guy ran it for me, divided by nine (9), instead of twenty-seven (27) so. MR. HAM: The ratio is the same. Page 11 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 ( MR. COPE: We are still talking about the difference between about one hundred and forty (140) yards and eleven hundred and eighty (1180). CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Pardon me. This line that runs directly up next to the cherry tree. MR. COPE: Right CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Extending back down to the ground, is that a retaining wall basically, right in there. MR. COPE: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. And in the nature of the other application, what would happen to the cherry tree, the one that was granted. MR. COPE: They would go. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, they would go. So, you then, in effect would have to cut into this hill and there would probably be further retaining, because of the nature of changing the overall topography of the property. MR. COPE: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It was brought to our attention that certain neighbors, I am putting this on the record, had an indication that they really would rather not look at this tennis court from the road and are requesting that there be screening along the private road driveway area, in that six (6) foot area. Do you have any problems with that? MR. COPE: No, as a matter of fact, I sent a site plan and site section to FIDCO, which indicated screen planting along the road. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay good. MR. HAM: What FIDCO has to approve plans on any of that, they would have control over that. You have required it already under your CHAIRNLAN GOEHRINGER: On the other side, right. What kind of screening were you referring to. MR. COPE: The two plant plan, I wish I brought that site section, I didn't realize that would be an issue, but the road is signifieantly higher than the elevation of the tennis court. The tennis court is Page ~2 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 about seventeen (17), the road there is twenty-one to twenty-three (21 to 23) feet. So, it doesn't take very much height before you can affect ........... There already is some shade3-~nthere now and it is reasonably pretty stuff, it is not that dense in the spring and fall, but in the summer it is a little more. And I think we need a larger, pretty much the same stuff and a little bit of evergreen there. But I don't think we, unless directed otherwise, would want to get into screening that is out of character with the vegetation. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Like evergreens you mean. Like extensive evergreens o MR. COPE: I think, if we were to take and put a row~£ wh±~he~pine in or something like that, it would be out of character, some red cedar and things Hke that I could see. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We always talk evergreens, because it is the easiest way to block anything. And, of course, they usually just grow and we always, we usually state a minimum height. I am just here to, if the Board is so inclined to grant this modification and I don't want to be out of character in reference to the topography. If evergreens are alright with you. MR. COPE: Sure, I think that within, well, he did, John mentioned fruit trees. He wants to put an orchard in there. But if it's, if nc particular species are indicated. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, there is no species MR. COPE: And that there is some flexibility about the variety. MR. HAM: Well, they try, they will leave it open, even if they grant a variance and specify, you leave it open for our... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Whatever... MR. HAM: Qualification with another plan with plants that we can plant and we could come back to you and ask for. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yea, actually, probably the besl~ thing to do is build the blasted court first and come back for the screening.. That is just an additional application. Because it would be interesting to see what would be left after the court was put in. MR. HAM: Because I. know they have already been discussed with the neighbors next door~ who from which they purchased the house that would collaborate on some screening on the other side. they CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Good, alright. Does anybody here have any questions on this plan? Is there anybody in the audience from Page 13 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 Fishers Island that would like to comment on this? Seeing no hands, I will make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. We thank you very much for coming in gentlemen. Lorraine A. Miller (Transcribed by tape recorded of 6/4/92. Page 14 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 APPEAL # 4105 Applicant(s): John J. Fiore Location of Property: 3100 Cedar Beach Road, Southold · County Tax Map No.: 1000-91-1-5 The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:00 p.m. and Read the Notice of Hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:... whomever. Mr. Wiggin, how are you? MERLIN E. WIGGIN: Good evening. Just to speak briefly. This is, as you know, a request for a swimming pool and as you know the Zoning Code requires the swimming pool to be in the rear yard. Because this is a corner lot and the house located where it is, there is no rear yard. It is only two (2) front yards. So, if the owner is to enjoy the benefits of a swimming pool, he has no choice but to sit it in the front yard. And, the, we feel this is not a bad area to. locate it in. He can landscape it and he can make it look generally pleasant in the surroundings. There are other inground swimming pools in the area. Also, we have gone to the Board of Trustees and they have ruled it a Type II action, which as far as the environment is concerned. They did request that we locate it four (4) feet closer to Sunset Way, so that the raised area around the pool, which I will show in here, were in the flood plains, so they asked us to go hack four (4) more feet. And, I ............ a revised survey which I will have by tomorrow. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It is going to be forty, forty-one (40, 41).. MR. WIGGIN: Forty (40) Four, zero feet. Rather than twenty-four (24). CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What is the fenced area, is that, how much of deck are we talking about. MR. WIGGIN: It is a four (4) foot wide deck. The reason for that, it is in the flood plain and they felt that is was more appropriate that violent to move the fence area back, also to seventy-five (75) ,feet. And these has also concurred with us. Well, why don't you move the fence back so that is seventy-five (75) feet as well. So that makes it four (4) foot closer to Sunset Way, so it is going to he six (6) feet further away from Cedar Beach Road. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What is the elevation of the pool at finished grade? Page 15 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. WIGGIN: The elevation of the pool is going to be eight (8) feet. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, now that is the top of the pool at eight (8) feet? MR. WIGGIN: That is the run area of the pool, so it is going to be... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Elevated eight (8) feet above ~rade. MR. WIGGIN: Excuse me, no. Above sea level. Two (2) feet above grade. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Two (2) feet above grade. MR. WIGGIN: That meets within the the Town's flood plain levels. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is}what}in the "B" Zone? MR. WIGGIN: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This would be a wooden deck around the MR. WIGGIN: No, it is going to be graded deck and a fence. It is going, he plans on putting railroad ties around the fenoe area... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: To lock it in... MR. WIGGIN: And that would be at two (2) feet and the fence above that, so the total would be four (4) feet high. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I see. MR. WlGGIN: And that would be landscaped around that to kind of disguise it. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What is going to be four (4) foot high, the fence? MR. WIGGIN: No, the total height~ because it is four (4) feet to meet the Town's Zoning Code. But is two (2) foot high .... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So it would be two (2) foot of railroad ties and then ~wo (2) feet of fence. A total of four (4) feet when you are standing on grade outside the pool area. MR. WIGGIN: That is correct, right. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, where will the entrance be to the pool? Page 16 PubHc Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. WIGGIN: The entrance will be on the side, on the side next to the house, it would be on this side over here so. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, it will be on that side. MR. WIGGIN: On that side over there sir. And, Mr. Fiore the one (1) reason he wants to do this is, he will explain momentarily-, is that he, this is one of the things he wants his family to enjoy and he also has a health benefit that he hopes to recoop from this as well. And, we all know that from swimming in bays these days sometimes the jellyfish in the canal is not, I know I have got stung a couple of times, the rest of you have. So, you might want to address the .... MR. JOHN J. FIORE: Yea, probably my needs are more health wise than recreational. I have a particular, what they call degenerative joint disease, which is a, it's a spine that starts to give you problems. And my physicians have always said that water exercise and taking weight off the spine and doing things of that nature is helpful to me. And I do that at home and etthehealth club, but I can't enjoy a pool where I live in Nassau. I don't have the luxury of that space. Out here, it is another story. I spend most of my summer in Southold. I have been a resident here since 1976. I have learned the permanent process, if you will, I have done a few things, a few times and being a city boy didn't realize, went through that whole process and got things done. But, the pool is for more health than recreational as far as we're concerned. Even my wife who is not a good swimmer, will learn to swim in a pool as .-oppose.d. ~to-.9oing-to:. a creek for a day. And, if I can get her to swim in a pool, then I can get her out of my boat, maybe one (1) day. So, it is a whole game plan for that reason. The strange part of our property is that, when I purchased it, I knew it was two lots joined together. But my house is set back right to the water's edge, and I have got that whole entire second lot. Which really to me is not the side yard, but, of course it is based on the way it is presently laid out. But that is an entire plot that is available. So the pool is going to really be 1.~ not very much visible to the road. And we plan to do a lot of shrubbery work around it, so that, from the fencing area. So, I don't think anybody would find it unpleasant. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Exterior front fencing or the interior front fencing. MR FIORE: The interior of the fencing. I have a post and rail fence that runs the property, if it is permissible, I will do that. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yea, we may request external greenery outside on the road side, you know, below the MR. FIORE: Is that allowable, I mean. Page 17 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. WIGGIN: That is what we have suggested to do that. Although that hides the height of the whole thing there. Actually, the pool is almost the only thing in the second lot. The house is almost all in the Lot 159 and 158. The pool is practically the only thing is the second lot. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is the pool going to be heated. MR. FIORE: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:Okay. And there is no intention of ever enclosing it, is there? MR. FIORE: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is this a liner pool or is there .... MR. FIORE: A liner pool. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGE:A liner pool, okay. Alright, we thank you very much. MR. FIORE: Thank you. MR. WIGGIN: Thank you. Appreciate it. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody else who would like to speak/or this application? Anybody against the application? Any other questions? Seeing no other questions, I make a motion closing the hearing.. Yes. Mr. Goehringer he has one (1) neighbor he Hves by and he did respond to .... MR. FIORE: He stopped today and to ask me, because he had not Mt{. WIGGIN: He couldn't be here so, you got a notation on there. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you so much. MR. FIORE: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Hearing no futher comments, I make a motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later. Lorraine A. Miller End of hearing. (Transcribed by tapes recorded 6/4/92) Page t8 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 APPEAL # 4112 Applicant(s): Henry and Betty Hintze Location of Property: Right-of-way extending off the easterly side of Pipes Neck Road, Greenport, NY County Tax Map No.: 1000-53-1-15 The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:07 p.m. and read the Notice of Hearing and application for the record. CHAIR,M-AN GOEHRINGER: How are you tonight sir. Is there anything you would like to state for the record? Did you meet most of the Board members? You didn't meet them, okay. I had a nice discussion with Mr. Hintze, it is Hintze not Hintzee. And he showed me everything. Is there anybody that has any specific questions of this gentlemen while he is here? MEMBER VILLA: What we are trying to do here is legalize something that is already there, right. CHAIRNIAN GOEHRINGER: Right. When was it built. MR. HENRY HINTZE: About a year and a half ago, I went to Florida and my sons surprised me and when I come back, it was there. They surprised me. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Any other questions from anybody? And you said the shed was there how long? MR. HINTZE: I bought the house in 1960 and I believe there was a shed there. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And that is when it blew down, that you told me that you either .... MR. HINTZE: About 1968, Price gave me cause it blew down, he gave me money and then CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Rebuild. MR. HINTZE: He said he would mail it to me. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Any other questions? Certainly a greatly unique area, there is no question about it. I mean, the view is unprecedented, I am telling you. MR. HINTZE: It is for my grandchildren. Page 19 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And I think I met most of them when I was there. MR. HINTZE: There was only nine (9) of them. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, there was only (9) of them, okay. Alright, I don't see... Anybody in the audience have any problems with this application. Seeing no hands, I will make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. We will have a decision for you as quickly as possible. Thank you. MR. HINTZE: Thank you. End of hearing. Lorraine A. Miller (Transcribed by rapes recorded 6/4/92 Page 20 Public Hearing Southold ABA 6/~/92 APPEAL # 4106 Applicant(s): Lawrence P. and Marilyn Hig~ins Location of Property: 830 Lupron Point Road, Mattituek, NY County Tax Map No.: 1000-115-11-16 The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:12 p.m. and read the Notice of Hearing and Application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The existinE deck was presently there, the nature of this application is a 13 x 42 deck approximately added to that and we will ask the agent for the applicant what the approximate distance is to the bulkhead. Mr. Fitzgerald. How are you. MR. JIM FITZGERALD: I'm fine, how are you? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Good thanks° MR. FITZGERALD: Should I approach the bench? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Wherever you like. No that fs just somebod: ' that .... MR. FITZGERALD: Got started. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The approximate distance to the existing bulkhead now that the deck is added is what? MR. FITZGERALD: Thirty-six (36) feet. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER Thirty-six (36) feet. Okay. i was over the other day, I did see the deck. I was only, the only thing that was a Httle disconcerning to me was this visor effect that they had placed toward the house. It looked almost Hke a privacy fence which was attached to the .,* existing rail of the deck. And that is the only thing I didn't. MR. FITZGERALD: I didn't know anything about it. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yea, I didn't know how the rest of the Board felt about that, we will ask them, okay. Did you have any questions of Mr. Fitzgerald? MEMBER VILLA: This deck has been built. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yea, what happened was, Mr, & Mrs. Higgins, .whom I have known for about twenty (20) years, were intending to have this built, I am really great, they should just continue this environmental whatever is falling from the trees out there for another two or three (2 Page 21 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 - Higgins or 3) weeks, and I will be ready to commit hart kart okay. They needed this deck on Apri! 30th for a wedding, okay. Based upon, and I am not answering for you, stop me if I am incorrect at any time, but Mr. Fitzgerald had some problem with the DEC in determining the age of the bulkhead and requiring a waiver from the DEC. I assume you got that eventually, or you are getting it, or you are going to get it or whatever. MR. LAWRENCE HIGGINS: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, because the bulkhead was put in when, 19687 MR. FITZGERALD: This is Corso next door, he thinks it was sometime between '55 and '70o CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, which is well prior to the 1976, 1977 date. Right, okay. So, therefore, when I spoke to Mrs. Higgins, I told her we could not give her permission to commence with the deck. However, I did have three (3) Board members go down and look at it and I did not have any disgresaion with Mrs. Higgins after that. SECRETARY KOWALSKI: This wasn't filed by the way until May 12th, so we didn't get involved in it until May 12th or... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right, on or about that date, okay. Because of the elevation factor, I don't have a particular problem with the deck. I thought only, the only thing that concerned me was this fence area that I was referring to, which is attached the top rail towards the house on the westerly side. And I just didn't know if everybody here has looked at the deck, in its completed form. Have you looked at it Jim. MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I wasn't aware that it was built, I was going to go down there, but I didn't. MEMBER VILLA: I was there before. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, so what will happen here is we will close the hearing pending another inspection of the deck. Alright, and then we will make a decision, based upon that decision. MR. FITZGERALD: Jerry, I can see that this .... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: As I said, I am not... MR. FITZGERALD: Does it look like a permanent thing? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yea, it is part of the rail, okay. It is a part of the rail, okay. Agmn, I am not making a big deal, I it was just, just something that I hadn't seen before, okay. And I... so. And you know, if there is any discussion or anything, we will be forced to reopen Page 22 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 - Higgins the hearing, that is basically- it. But we do appreciate your coming down tonight. I know you had another situation that, personal situation, which might have taken you. MR. HIGGINS: First things first. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, thank you again. MR. HIGGINS: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of the application. Anybody like to speak against the application? Questions from Board members? Hearing no further questions, I make a motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later. by'- ~/:~ ~ ~ ~ Lorraine A. Miller (Transcribed by tapes recorded 6/4/92) Page 23 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 Appeal ~ 4104 Applicant(s): Antonio Vangi Location of Property: 645 Glen Court, Cutchogue, NY County Tax Map No: 1000-83-I-l? The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:17 p.m. and read the Notice of Hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The Vangi's have been before us before. We are very familar with this property and I believe Ms. Wickham is representing. Would you like to be heard? MS. ABIGAIL WICKHAM: Thank you. I like to just indicate that if you, when you made a visual inspection of the property and saw' the stakes, it seems to me that the proposed extension is not going to really dramatically ehange the overall picture of the property. There is another house a little bit further east of this on a cul-de-sac. It seems to be very, very close to the road'and I think that this distance of twenty-nine (29) feet from the front yard is well back from that location. And there is almost a fourteen (14) foot setback, proposed on the east side. I really don't have anything to add to the application but if you have any questions, the Vangi's are here. CHAIRIVIAN GOEHRINGER: As you know, we don't have architectual review, however, how is this going to blend into the existing dwelling? MS. WICKHAM: Well, they have given an awful lot of thought to that and they do want to create a roof line and a frontage, oh, I am sorry, front, that will blend into the existing house and make it look compatible and not look like it was something stuck there. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The doors on this, this is basically an addition to the house, but it is going to be used as a storage area. MS. WICKHAM: They need it as a storage area, because they want to get rid of that shed. And the doors will be on the side, or on the back. Any place. 'CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Any place. Probably the best bet would be to put them on the back. MS. WICKHAM: Wherever they look the best, right. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Meaning the water side so that you didn't even see it. Page 24 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 - Vangi MEMBER VILLA: You can't, that is going to be the house. MS. WICKHAM: No, there is an extension out from the house. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We have a new plan. MS. WICKHAM: You may be looking at the original sketch. Where it would cover up their w~indow. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, that was the purpose of moving it a Httle bit farther. MS. WICKHAM: Yes. There is a window and that again will help maintain the visual integrity of the house. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Now, not to be bring up past variance applications, but as you know, we did have quite a bit concern from the neighbors. The neighbors on the east side have been spoken to, they are aware of this application. MS. WICKHAM: Yes, in fact we faxed them the application and the map. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And they don't have a particular problem witi. it. Okay, great. MS. WICKHAM: No. That was a .... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Loreta, yea,~is that Dr. Loreta? MS. WICKHAM: Yes. Dr. Loreta and, I think you have an affidavit of service in the file that we did send the map and also an explanation. I think I sent him a copy of a letter I sent to you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Now, this is a one (1) story addition. This is not to exceed what in height? Eight, ten, twelve (8, 10, 12) you got a guesstamate on it. MS. WICKHAM: An estimate would be teh (10) feet, possibly, depending on how they would have to structure the roof line. I think you 'can tell from the property, they are kind of concerned about how their property looks. · CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well, it is a beautiful piece of property. And their house is gorgeous too. I mean... MS. WICKHAM: I mean, Mrs. Vangi has given a lot of thought to where put an extension, so it didn't impair the integrity. They originally thought of applying on the west side again, but a smaller addition than Page 2 5 Public Hearing :~ ~, ~ Southold ZBA 6/4/92 - Vangi the garage that they had run into opposition on before. And she felt that that would look like something stuck out and just be. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: In no way is this addition going to house a car though. It is going to be used mainly for storage purposes. MRS. VANGI: Yes. MS. WICKHAM: Right. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. I don't have any particular objection to it. We do the normal cut and dry, is there anybody in the audience who would like to speak either for or against this application? Seeing no hands, are there any other questions from Board members. MEMBER VILLA: What is the required setback in that zone? SECRETARY KOWALSKI: Fifteen and ~wen~y (15 and 20). CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, no, not side yards, front yards, thirty-five (35). MEMBER VILLA: Because they are not even asking for a variance for the front yard. They are asking for a side yard. SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I think it was, how was it advertised for? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We will see how it was advertised here. MEMBER VILLA: From what I read, just the side yard and from the bluff. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: 100-244. MS. WICKHAM: The original application asked for front yard setback and then the revision included a side yard request. SECRETARY KOWALSKI: I could readvertise it, if it makes everybody happy, but is it necessary. It is up To you. MEMBER VILLA: I just wanted To clarify it, that is all. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Since 100-244 is mentioned, Ms. Wickham, which is the bulk schedule. I don't think we have a particular problem from a technical point of dealing with the application. There is no established set back on Vista Bluff, is there, at this time, in reference to from the road. ( MS. WICKHAM: From the filed map? Page 26 PubHc Hearing $outhold ZBA 8/4/92 - Vangi CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Not from the filed map, but just from existing construction there. Is there anything forward of this? Is this pretty much all in line. MS. WICKHAM: Are you talking about the front yard set back. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Front yard set back. MS. WICKHAM: Welt, as I mentioned that house on the cul-de-sac, I didn't get out and measure it, but it looks probably twenty (20) feet, if that, off the bluff. I suspect because the read curves towards the · Sound, it is a shallow line. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yea, you are talking about the one to the easterly side. MS. WICKHAM: Yea, it is a white house. It has some terraced ties. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That is the reason why, I think, there may be an established setback in that area. Okay, I don't have any other particular questions. I really don't have any problem with the application, to be honest with you. Thank you. Any other questions from anyone? So, if we were to restate the fact that this an addition to the dwelling, not to exceed one (1) story in height, you don't have any problems with that. MS. WICKHAM: That is correct. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Seeing no point of continuing t~fis, I will make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until a little later and we will kick it around. And we thank you all for coming it. Have a safe trip home. End of hearing. Lorraine A. Miller (Transcribed by tape recorded 6/4/92) Page 27 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 APPEAL ~ 4110 Applicant(s): Thomas E. Coffin Location of Property: 305 Gull Pond Lane, Greenport, NY County Tax Map No.: 1000-35-4-5 The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:35 p.m. and read the Notice of Hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: .,. A copy of a map indicating this Lot # 10, existing one (1) story frame home. The nature of this application is the construction of a fifteen (15) feet deck, fifteen (15) foot deck, the entire distance of the rear yard of this deck, of this house rather, which is a distance of sixty-seven (67) feet, leaving it approximately forty-three (43) feet from the bulkhead. And I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody who would like to be heard? This is again, Coffin. Oh, look at this, two hats tonight. MR. FIM FITZGERALD: Yes, two for the price of one. I don't have anything additional, other than that what is already in the application. Unless you have any questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Existing grade, grade from the first floor coming out, basically would be the height. MR. FITZGERALD: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright. One (1) height throughout the whole deck, no variances, no variations. MR. FITZGERALD: I believe so, but we did not discuss ii at any great detail. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Nature of the, being unroofed? MR. FITZGERALD: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright. If the Board is unhappy with fifteen (15) feet~ the applicant will be happy with any amount over ten (10). MR. FITZGERALD: Instead of nothing? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Instead of nothing. MR. FITZGERALD: Yes. Page 28 PubHc Hearing Southold ZBA - 6/4/92 CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, we will do the best we can for you. Thank you. MEMBER VILLA: I have a question. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes. MEMBER VILLA: Was this house built by the Coffins'? They are the original owner? MR. FITZGERALD: I don't know. Would you like me to find out. MEMBER VILLA: Well, I was just wondering because it has some bearing on me. The survey says it was to Thomas E. Coffin and it was dated 1976. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It says on the building permit, Thomas E. Coffin. MR. FITZGERALD: I have two deeds. And I think that -.-.there was a deed to ask for it to go from Thomas .Coffin to the local trust of ThomaS Coffin. And I think I have the deed. I can't answer the question, but I can certainly find out. MEMBER VILLA: I think it was because it was the old survey and it was dated 1976. That is probably when the house was built, right. MR. FITZGERALD: It looks about that year, yes. MEMBER VILLA: My reason for my inquiry is the fact that the house is set back one hundred (100) feet from Gull Pond Lane, so they set it back purposely so they could take advantage of the water view. Now, they are trying to get a deck across there, so it is only forty-three (43) feet from the water. MR. FITZGERALD: You can't see very much of that water, to be honest, from the house because it is a d~edge, d canal. Alright, so, you don't see much water. You see .... MEMBER VILLA: You see the water from the house, you can see the house across the... 'MR. FITZGERALD: Yea, sure. MEMBER VILLA: I just wanted to know if they were the ones who chose to put the house back one hundred (100) feet from the road. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have here to answer your question, Mr .... It doesn't say what the assessment was. It was sold for thirty-two five (32,5) on 12/19/75 from Hainley to Coffin. Page 29 Public Hearing F\ Southold ZBA - 6/4/92 MR. FITZGERALD: For thirty-two five (32,5). I had to be land then. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Probably. SECRETARY KOWALSKI: The house was built in 1976, a year later. MEMBER VILLA: The house was built by a carpenter. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you sir. Any other questions? Anybody else like to speak in favor or against this application? Seeing no hands, I will make a motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later. End of hearing. Lorraine A. Miller (Transcribed by tape recorded 6/4/92.) Page 30 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 APPEAL # 4098 Applicant(s): Tony and Maria Kostoulas Location of Property: 1035 Aquaview Avenue, East Marion, NY County Tax Map No.: 1000-21-2-13 CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is a hearing that was olosed and oonchided on May 7th. What we are doing at this point is very simply just reopening the hearing tonight, the sole purpose of the fact that we are requiring additional input from the Town Trustees regarding the Coastal Zone Management area, which for the people in the audience who would like to know, the Coastal Zone Management area, is an area that deal with now. We are doing that in concert with the Town Trustees. They have, actually pro forma jurisdiction. We still have overlapping jurisdiction on 239.4 of the Zoning Code and so, therefore, gentlemen I am requesting that we reopen this hearing, and that is what I am doing. Any questions? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: In disposing of this application at this point then, this is an act that we don't normally do. I will recess it to the next regularly scheduled meeting, which is June 30th, which hopefully by that time the Trustees will advise us in reference to the overall impact of this particular deck and as it pertains to the property on Aquaview Avenue. Lorraine A. Miller (Transcribed by tape recorded 6/4/92.) Page 31 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 APPEAL-# 3975 Applicant(s): Arthur G. Carlson Location of Property: 1575 Lower Road, Southold, NY 11971 County Tax Map No.: 1000-69-5-13.2 The Chairman opened this hearing at 8:48 p.m. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, that brings us to the final hearing of the evening, which is recessed hearing I believe from March 25th of the year of 1992 and that is the Arthur G. Carlson hearing. At that time, I believe we were swearing people in and we wiU go back now to the attorney and we will ask him if he would again state his name and tell us what he would like to do tonight. MR. WILLIAM GOGGINS: I am William Goggins of the law firm of MeNulty and Speiss located in Riverhead, NY. I believe that at the end of the last hearing, the Chairman requested that we come back and present some information illustrating the process of potatoes and how those potatoes are processed and put to market, so we could make an analogy to determine the similarities and distinguish the difference between agriculture and aquaculture. And, to that end I have two (2) people here willing to testify--one is a Mr. Sam McCullough, another one is a Henry Romanowski. And, if it pleases the' Board, I would like to bring up Mr. McCullough up to speak on the process of potatoes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Are you going to be asking him questions. MR. GOGGINS: No. I was going to leave it to the Board to do that. If you want, I can ask the questions. We did it in response to your inquiry, but if you want, I can do that. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Why don't you ask him some questions and then I will illicit some interests that we have. How do you do, sir. Could you state your name for the record and tell us what your business is. MR. SAM McCULLOUGH: My name is Sam McCullough. I am currently the vineyard manager for Lenz Winery in Peconic. I reside in Cutchogue. I have a fair amount of background in agriculture on the North Fork. grew up here from the age of 11 or 12, worked on a truck farm, potato farm. I studied horticulture at Colorado State University in Fort Collins, Colorado and then returned here in 1983 to go into the wine business. And I have worked for Lenz Vineyard in their installation, management, and consulting business. I have my own management business for four (4) years and then I went to' work at Lenz Winery, who have .been one of my clients, when I had my management business. I am currently employed there now. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Do you solemnly swear everything you are about to is the truth to the best of knowledge. say your MR. McCULLOUGH: Yes I do. Page 32 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, just to recap this thing briefly. We have had a type, certain types of applications, okay regarding this particular business on this particular site, okay. The most recent application that we had acted en which was the March 25th one, was an interpretation on how agriculture and aquaculture interrelate. Okay, and that is basically an area that we are going to be dealing with in reference to either an interpretation or just a flat cut statement concerning the request of this applicant or the agent for the applicant who is this attorney. Is there anything, Bill, that you want to ask him again before -- You have a specific thing you want to say, I presume. MR. McCULLOUGH: I don't actually have a prepared statement. I understood that I would be answering questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. MR. GOGGINS: Last time we were here, the Carisons, they explained the process of their business and I explained to you earlier today. And basically, I think what the Board wants to know is, they want to determine what a farmer does with a potato when he 'takes it out of the ground. And what happens at the time when he takes is out of the ground and gets it to market. Do you have any experience working on farms with potatoes and so forth? MR. McCULLOUGH: Yes I do. MR. GOGGINS: Could you tell the Board and the people here tonight the process of the distributing of the potato and so forth. MR. McCULLOUGH: Sure. In my experience, which is not up to the minute but it is reasonably recent history at least. We would dig the potatoes with the combine, do some presetting on the combine, load the potatoes into a bulk truck. This was all an automated process. We would then either market at that point, by taking a truck load of potatoes to a grader who would, the process would include grading and distribution, or depending on prices, we would store them to wait for a better price -- hopefully a better price. And the storing process, we would take our load of potatoes to wherever our barn was and sort the 'potatoes again, cleaning out any rotten potatoes, dirt, defective potatoes--either they would be green or cut, bruised badly. Fill up a barn. At that point, we would treat potatoes with a sprout inhibitor, usually in form of a gas, the exact chemical name of that at this point I can't remember. Then we would store the potatoes in a temperature controlled layup until such time as the .price was attractive to sell a little bit more, until such time that it was late enough in the 'season, we would just have to get rid of it. MR. GOGGINS:' But, when it came time for, to sell them, what would they do with the potato at that point. MR. McCULLOUGH: Okay. At that point, we did not actually pack potatoes and ship them. We would either move them. We would move them to one of the local packers which, there were several packing Page 33 Public Hearing ........... F. Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. McCULLOUGH (con'~t.): b.usinesses--~acks.and Sons was one; Schum~nns, we would ta~<e them to. And then there were other farmers that also packaged, sorted and packaged potatoes for other growers. They weren't actually, I think, official distributors, .but a fair amount of this went ozs. in a business where some of the other growers, who with these types of things, I guess it is a good idea to keep everybody nameless. But some farmers had all the packaging equipment and facility to do this in, so they would actually be doing packaging from the growers. What happens in that case, is the potatoes are loaded back on the truck from the storage, taken to wherever the grading facility is, they are taken off. They are first sorted for any defects, ther~ they are graded by size. They are either washed or simply brushed. And all potatoes that leave Long Island have to be treated in someway to prevent the spread o£ the golden nematode to other growing areas. Sorted by size, this is all a mechanical operation, conveyors with a series of chains with different size holes, large potatoes stay-on the top and they are parted off in one direction, the smaller potatoes are taken off in the other direction. They take them to an automatic bagging equipment, Where they are put into bags from a conveyor, automatically weighed, kick off the scales, and the bags are taken away and sewed all up. A_nd then somebody stacks them on pallets and then they are loaded on a truck. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Can I ask a question, Bill? MR. GOGGINS: Sure. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: At any time, was the physical characteristic of the potato changed. MR. McCULLOUGH: In other words was it .... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Skinned. MR. McCULLOUGH: No, they are not skinned, they are not cooked, or anything like that. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: By the act of washing the potato or whatever act or form that was done prior to either bulk grading or whatever the ease might be and paekag/ng or just sent in. You know, the normal big pallet size with the walls on it, okay. Did the scrubbing action or the washh~g action change the physical characteristic of the potato? MR. McCULLOUGH: It doesn't change the physical characteristic of the potato, but what it does, it renders it marketable. Without doing that, you can't sell it anywhere but locally. And it is an essential process in selling, but it does not change it into anything other than a potato. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The nature of the growing of this potato on the farms that you have worked on, were they necessarily all grown on site, or did the farmer rent other land where he would bring the Page 34 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. McCULLOUGH (con't.):businesses-~Sacks and Sons was one; Schumanns we would take them to. And then there were other farmers that also packaged, sorted and packaged potatoes for other growers. They weren't actually, I think, official distributors, but a fair amount of this went on in a business where some of the other growers, who with these types of things, I guess it is a good idea to keep everybody nameless. But some farmers had all the packaging equipment and facility to do this in, so they would actually be doing packaging from the growers. What happens in that case, is the potatoes are-loaded back on the truck from the storage, taken to wherever the grading facility is, they are taken off. They are first sorted for any defects, then they are graded by size. They are either washed or simply brushed. And all potatoes that leave Long Island have to be treated in someway to prevent the spread of the golden nematode to other growing areas. Sorted by size, this is all a mechanical operation, conveyors with a series of chains with different size holes, large potatoes stay on the top and they are parted off in one direction~ the smaller potatoes are taken off in the other direction. 'They take them to an automatic bagging equipment, where they are put into bags from a conveyor, automatically weighed, kick off the scales, and the bags are taken away and sewed ali up. And then somebody stacks them on pallets and then they are loaded on a truck. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Can I ask a question, Bill? MR. GOGGINS: Sure. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: At any time, was the physical characteristic of the potato changed. MR. McCULLOUGH: In other words was it .... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Skinned. MR. McCULLOUGH: No, they are not skinned, they are not cooked, or anything like that. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: By the act of washing the potato or whatever act or form that was done prior to either bulk grading or whatever the case might be and packaging or just sent in. You know-, the normal big pallet size with the walls on it, okay. Did the scrubbing action or the washing action change the physical characteristic of the potato? MR. McCULLOUGH: It doesn't change the physical characteristic of the potato, but what it does, it renders it marketable. Without doing that, you can't sell it anywhere but locally. And it is an essential process in selling, but it does not change it into anything other than a potato. .' CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The nature of the growing of this potato on you on, were they necessarily grown on the farms that have worked all site, or did the farmer rent other land where he would bring the potatoes to the site where he either vented the barn or owner the barn to do this activity? Page 35 P blt Hearing ~:~'~ '~ '" ~ ~- Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. MeCULLOUGH: Well, we were actually on the opposite end of that, in that we brought our potatoes to other sites. We... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. In other words, you didn't actually do the storage, of the potato... MR. McCULr.OUGH: We did the storage. In fact in was all on rented land. And we rented the storage which was up near, where Capt. Kidd Estates is now in Mattituek. And it depended on who was getting the best price, we would go to anybody who was packing potatoes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, okay. MR. McCULLOUGH: And there are several growers who do package potatoes for other people, CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right. MR. GOGGINS: So, what you are saying is that there are some farmers that grow potatoes, but they don't have storage facilities on site and they don't have the capability to package them on site. MR. McCULLOUGH: Absolutely. MR. GOGGINS: And they have to bring them to a local wholesaler. MR. MeCULLOUGH: Yes. MR. GOGGINS: Okay, and then there are other farmers who have some storage capaeity, hut they don't have enough for their whole harvest and so they might store some on site and some elsewhere. MR. MeCULLOUGH: Right. MR. GOGGINS: Or, even sell some directly to the wholesaler. MR. MeCULLOUGH: Normally there is a eombination~ of marketing and storing going on at the same time. It would be foolish for every l~otato grewer to take all of his potatoes and put them on the market at once. Prices drop very rapidly. MR. GOGGINS: Are there, there must be also some farmers that do everything on site. They grow it, they store it, they process it, package and distribute it. Is that right also? MR. McCULLOUGH: Yes. MR. GOGGINS: Are there also other farmers without naming anyone, that, or people who used to be farmers, that used to be in the business that strictly wholesaled without doing any actual growing. McCULLOUGH I think there probably is one and there are MR. several who primarily who have gotten into related areas of the business where they are not ..... making ..... Page 36 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. GOGGINS: .... they are not growing .... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You are referring to a potato broker now as opposed to a person that .... MR. GOGGINS: Broker or a commissioned merchant. I don't know what ' you would call them. I am not really familiar with them. MR. McCULLOUGH: Are we speaking specifically to potatoes or all other processes in general. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, it could be almost any crop, the physical characteristic would not necessarily change. An example would be brussel sprouts. If the physical characteristic of the brussel sprout is changed, not the sprout itself, but it is taken off the stalk and usually packed in a container or a box. So, in that particular case, we have a change. MR. McCULLOUGH: In that case, potatoes, the physical characteristics are that they take them from a great big pile and put in bags. And I think that that is a fairly good- CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Synonymous type of thing. MR. McCULLOUGH: ...good analogy actually. It is packaging. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: During the period of the time that I assisted the Mattituek Lions Club and their use of the Agway building in Mattituck, the east side of that building, the detached portion of that building on Old Sound Avenue which is now rented to Chris Rehm, handled a large packaging operation, okay. The farmer that you worked for, did he ship any of these .potatoes to Ag'way... MR. McCULLOUGH: Rarely through Agway. That was something of a last resort. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. MR. McCULLOUGH: Most commonly we used Farmer Sacks. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: But again for the products that were grown either on site, be them any type of produce, the physical characteristics rarely changed except for the two (2) analogies that we just used, which is the scrubbing action and No. 2--the brussel sprouts which are taken off the stalk by manual labor and then placed in a container. MR. McCULLOUGH: Yea, at that time, the farm that I was working on, we grew string beans, which were basically put in baskets and shipped; cucumbers, which again were put in baskets or boxes and shipped would be put in boxes and shipped. We took those to peppers always one of the local truckers. Page 37 Public Hearing ~L~ ~.~ ~ Southold ZBA 6/4/92 CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right. Like the one on Depot Lane or one (1) of the gentlemen that... MR. McCULLOUGH: George Alec most commonly. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Were the cucumbers ever waxed prior to their shipment? MR. MeCULLOUGH: Occasionally, but it didn't seem to merit the effort to do it so, normally what we would do is just wash them, pack them, and send them out. We waxed them for a little while but it didn't bring any extra money, so it wasn't worth doing. MR. GOGGINS: I was going to get into that, too, the other type of farm products like cauliflower. What do they do with cauliflower when they take that from the ground? Or how do they take it from the ground, how do they package it and so forth? MR. MeCULLOUGH: It is cut from the stem. The leaves are cut off the top. It is packed in typically a wooden crate, sort of a trademark of Long Island cauliflower. It is just packed in a crate and shipped. MR. GOGGINS: Do they string it or tie it in anyway? MR. McCULLOUGH: Normally no. I believe that- some of the stores that are working on contracts with some of the local growers, are requesting different packaging because our traditional package here is a little bit of a handling problem. They got a lot of waste, they get extra leaves, which are due for cushioning cauliflower and shipping, but they are a nuisance to handle when you unpack it at the grocery store and they have got these wooden crates. And what you typically see in the stores are cauliflowers that are trimmed very close. They have got a few leaves left on it, very short, wrapped in cellophane. And that is always done by the grower or the packer. That is a little bit more advanced than, I guess, what is common around here, but there is some of that going on and I believe that is probably the way things are going. MR. GOGGINS: I know that this isn't on point. You said you worked for the wineries, how do they do what the wineries do, when they pull the grapes from the vines and so forth. How does that processing go? If you want a more involved process, you are now going into something that is much more involved. The grapes are picked either by hand or by machine. The hand picked grapes are brought into the winery in plastic tubs at which point they are put through a machine which crushes the grapes and removes the stems. At that point, they are pumped into a tank and inoculated with a yeast. At this point, they ferment and depending on the grapes, it may be anywhere from three or four (3 or 4) days to three or four (3 or 4) weeks, at which point, most of the sediment is settled out of what used to be grape juice and is now young wine, transferred into another tank, the sediment is taken out, disposed of, usually out in the fields, most commonly, relatively rich in nutrients. At this point, there is a series of changes that take place in the wine, they are fairly technical, but the acid chemistry of Page 38 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. GOGGINS (con't):the wine is manipulated so it will be stable, so it won't precipitateD but it will snowflake like by passing bitartrate crystals and bottling, and if you chill it. It stabilized so the protein won't precipitate out of it, if it gets too warm. And that is done with bentonite, Which is just mixed in the powder with the wine. It aggregates the various protein molecules and they settle out. Each time anything is settled out of wine, it is transferred to another tank, so whatever is fallen Out of it can be taken away. After that, most wines that we are producing out here are aged in oak barrels for a period of time, anywhere from three or four (3 or 4) months to two and two one-half (2 and 2 1/2) years. Once the wine has been determined stable and it's pick up the right flavors from the oak. And the wine maker, who is sort of magician at tim~s, has decided it tastes the way he wants it to taste. The only thing left to do is bottle it. And, it is quite an integrate machine that automatically bottles the wine. The bottles are put into one end, wine is pumped into the machine, the bottles are filled to a closely controlled level, corks are put in, labels are put on all with one machine. Then the wine is packed in cardboard cases, placed on pallets and moved to a warehouse either on the facility or off. If the wine is moved off the facility, you have to pay a couple of taxes, state tax and all these things down the line. It's stored for a period of a couple of months to maybe a year or two. At which point, it is sold. And many of the wineries have retail faeilities where they have for sales, special events. I think you folks are pretty familiar with some of those. Mt{. GOGGINS: As far as the grapes they use, do they use all the grapes that are on site? MR. MoCULLOUGH: That varies with the wineries. Some wineries produce all their own grapes. In our case, we produce all of our own grapes on four (4) different farms, two (2) of which we own, two (2) of which we lease. Some wineries, supplement their own production with locally produced grapes, and other wineries supplement their own production with other locally produced ~rapes, and some grapes that are produced in either upstate New York or, in one (1) instance, someone was buying grapes in either northern California or Oregon. So, there is quite a wide latitude of things that go on that you really can't say anybody follows a specific set of rules that applies to everybody CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Can I ask a question here? There also comes a time with the person who owns the vineyard that does not have a winery. He may request or she may request the use of your crushing facilities, not necessarily yours, but other wineries in the area. Their crushing facilities, their installation, the oak barrels and so on and so forth. And then of course, they probably dispose of it at that point to their own and then take care of it. MR. MeCULLOUGH: Yes. There is definitely a fair amount of that that goes on. With the newer wineries, the last three or four (3 or 4) .. that come of on line here, they have all had wine made from their own · fruit at different wineries, so that they would have something to market when they have a winery to open. It is a little diffieult to make money with a winery with no product to sell. It is a huge Page 39 Public Hearing ~.~. ~_ ~. ~ ~.~ Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. McCULLOUGH (con't.~:investmen~. When you've already have tobuy a farm, establish a vineyard, then build a winery, you are talking several hundreds of thousands of dollars here. So, the typicaJ way people have gotten into this business, is to contract with another winery to have wine made, so that they will have a marketable product, at the time they have their winery completed. So typically, what happens is, for instance, say in 1992, if I am growing grapes and I plan to build a winery that I would like to open in the fall of '93, I try to get the winery. I would take my 1992 crop, shop around some of the other wineries, find somebody who I think would make a wine that I want at a price that I could afford. Have him make wine for make wine for 1992 crop, in the meantime, I am building my winery and hopefully if everything goes right, I can process my own fruit in '93 and about that time when I have got a completed facility, I will have some of my 1992 wine to sell. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Interesting. MR. GOGGINS: Yea, it is. I have no further questions of Mr. McCuliough. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don't either. We will ask the Board. No. Thank you so much sir. MR. McCULLOUGH: You're welcome. MR. GOGGINS: Thank you, Sam. Next, I am not sure if Henry can add anything to this. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, I think he can. MR. GOGCINS: Mr. Henry Romanowski. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Again, state your name for the record and (Henry Romanowski) and you solemnly swear again' to say everything that you know to the best of your ability and to the truth. MR. HENRY ROMANOWSKt: Yes, and my name is Henry Romanowski. I reside in Mattituck. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Go ahead. MR. GOGGINS: Mr. Romanowski, my understanding is you come from a generation of farmers. Your grandfather was a farmer, your father was a farmer and you're pretty --, you know a lot about the process of farming and what it takes to pull potatoes out and everything else. Can you tell the Board anything about the processing of potatoes that maybe Mr. McCullough missed, or anything you can add to Mr. McCullough's statement, or to confirm anything he spoke to the Board about. " MR. ROMANOWSKI: Processing potatoes from, what I have seen from my father and growing up, we grew potatoes. Bought seed potatoes from Maine or russet style wherever. Planted them in the ground, harvested Page 40 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 ;NR. ROMANOWSKI (CON'T..}': 'it,..getting them out of the ground. Harvesting, we we either put th6m into the qrain ho~se,, bank.house. Either put in rive (5), ten(10) pound pile. Either brushing or washing whatever our broker ever wanted. If not, if there was no sales for them, we either put them in storage and !et them set a couple of, you know, a couple of months, And then after storage, we would go into our packing house, would grade from washing machine, brushing potatoes. Would pack at least three (3) trailers a day, whatever, you know, the customer ever wanted. MR. GOGGINS: You had a self-contained farm then. MR. ROMANOWSKI: Yes. MR. GOGGINS: You grew the product, packaged it, and distributed ito MR. ROMANOWSKI: Yes, I did. MR. GOGGINS: Exactly, what was the process as far as after it was stored and you got a market to sell the potatoes. Exactly how were they processed. MR. ROMANOWSKI: They were processed by, if they were in storage, by bucket loader into our potato trucks and packed into our grader. Packed in either It was either washed, whatever, you know, the market was for, whatever they wanted. It was either /~ .. washed with a washing machine, which is a high pressure of water over the potatoes and rolled over sponges or it went over a brusher, which was like a brush like if you wanted to brush your gas grill or something. It was very light. The brush was like a wire brush. And it went from there to a sizer machine, went to either a "B" potato, which is a very small potato. They came over and they picked them out either from the green ones, growth bracks, had knobs on them. Then they went to a big potato, a jumbo, a very large potato, which was a shep. It came over that and it went into a bake machine, which either you could hang five (5) pound, ten (10) pound, fifteen (15), if .' you wanted, a twenty (20) pound. - When it came out, it was ali automated. It really would scale most of itself. You would either have to pull two or three (2 or 3) potatoes out, or put three or four (3 or 4) back in. Pull out the size, whatever you wanted, it was automated, it would all hang by itself. It would clip itself or sew itself. MR. GOGGINS: This is a pretty elaborate process. MR. ROMANOWSKI: Yes. Mt{. GOGGINS: What was it, kind of like a conveyer belt. Where the conveyor belt... Would the potatoes be on conveyor belt and it would go through these machines. Is that what it would do? MR. ROMANOWSKI: Yes. It would come up and it would throw itself into the bag automatically. It would come up to a three, four (3, 4) pounds difference on the machine. Come up to size and come around, you Page 41 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 '- ' MR. ROMANOWSKI (con't)',: ~outd two.or three (2 or 3) guys stand~ng on th~-~achine pull in and~throw out the potatoes that are sup~pose to be in or,not suppbse to b~ in. An'd'it.would come out and clip_ itself-er' ' -- . - ~-. -'-- sew up on one side. And it would come up and the guys would be put them in masters, you know four or five (4 or 5) high bags into a fifty (50) pound bag or ten (10) five pounders. They would throw the fifty (50) pound bag in there, throw them up in there and scaled and thrown into the trailer. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The reason why I eluded to the Agway operation was because the first time I had seen it was in 1972. And, we of course, had utilized with the Lion's Club, utilized the building for the sole purpose of hulling the strawberries for the Strawberry Festival, okay. I have not spoken to Mr. Romanowski, I do know him very weH~ I know his father very well. His father is a fellow Lion's Club member with me. I observed the Romanowski farm, the Romanowski bagging operation and pretty much the entire operation during the period of that I knew his father, and I still know him, but he is net in the potato business anymore or the growing of the potatoes. He is not a farmer anymore, okay. In a different sense, he is doing farming. At that time, Henry, your father was operating on the family property which was the Main Road in Laurel, but he was renting a farm, okay. I believe that was up on Bergen Avenue, was it not ? MR. ROMANOWSKI: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. So there were potatoes' from both areas taken to those large steel, corrogated steel buildings that you had in the back of the, of your grandmother's house and that is where the operation took place. Is that correct? MR. ROMANOWSKI: Yea. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, the only issue that we have not arrived at, at this particular time, was the issue of noise or nocuous odor, okay. To my knowledge that during the period of time that those conveyors were operating, there was a relatively noisy operation, was it not? MR. ROMANOWSKI: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Were there any specific odors eminating from the washing of the potatoes, other than the dust that may be flying before it hit the water or whatever the case might be. · MR. ROMANOWSKI: There is always a~ odor, you know it, you know it smells of potato and this and that. You could of a smell that you know. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What if you stored them in a certain area and they got rotten. You certainly would have an odor from that area also. MR. ROMANOWSKI: Yes. Page 42 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 CHAIRMAN GOEHRiNGE~i Okay, And, of course, we all'know what the~cauliflower field smells like on a re~al hot ~da~, okay, So, basi:cally..there,is some s~gnificanc~ to the ~iffere~{~es that we' are talking about here. We have not gone into the shellfish area, which we talked about when you two gentlemen weren't here, okay. We did discuss that germane to this operation in the nature of this hearing. I don't think I have any further questions, anybody else on the Board? You have a question. Mr. Dinizio has a questioN. MEMBE2 DINIZIO: I just want to know' about approximately how large is the piece o~ property that you use to process where you have this machine and these large buildings. Aloproximately how large is that piece of property. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: He is talking about the south side on the north side of the railroad tracks, because the Romanowski farm was trunkated by the railroad, okay. MR. ROMANOWSKI: I would say altogether n~lybe five (5) acres. MEMBER DINIZIO: Thank you. That is all I wanted to know. MR; GOGGINS: Was it all contained in one building? MR. ROMANOWSKI: Yes it was. MR. GOGGINS: If you stood outside the building, while' the machine was ol~erating could you hear it? MR. ROMANOWSKI: Yes, you could. MR. GOGGINS: Could you smell it? MR. ROMANOWSKI: Yes. MR. QOGGINS: I have no other questions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don't either. MEMBER DINIZIO: ! have a couple more questions. This may he for you. When you were questioning Mr. McCullough? MR. GOGGINS: Mr. Cullough, yes. MEMBER DINIZIO: He said that he wouldn't mention names of certain ~farmers that did processing and things such as that, My question is, why wouldn't he mention the names. I don't want anybody... I mean is this something that the Town doesn't allow them to do. MR. GOGGINS: It is not .... I really don't know and I always make · it a practice not to mention someone's name unless I have their authorization, you know. If someone is doing something illegally on their site, I don't want to bring attention to it. And I certainly Page 43 Public Hearing Southotd ZBA 6/4/92 MR. GOGGINS (con't.): don!t want to create problems for 'anyone. Mr. ~McCu-1]ough and spoke before and we had talked about the different situations where you would have a wholesaler that doesn't grow the product on his property. The guy who had the farm and didn't have enough storage space would send elsewhere and then the other farmer that had everything, as the Romanowski's did, and we were drawing out names back and forth and actually Mr. McCullough brought to, he said I don't think we should be mentioning names because, you know, it's really not proper. And I agree. I usually don't. MEMBER DINIZIO: I not so much worried about who it was, because I have a pretty good idea. I have lived here all my life. But my question is, is it, is there impropriety there. Do these people think that they... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: An example of which is Henry's father. Because Henry's father operation was in brand new buildings. And it was a brand new operation, okay. An operation which existed, correct me if I am wrong, like from 1975 to 1985, okay. Okay, those were in brand new steel corrogated buildings. Okay. I don't know if the bagging machine was new, but the machine in the entire operation was a cement floor in a really pretty spot was built. Okay because we, that is where we hold our strawberries every year. We ask Henry's father for permission. And that is how he became a Mattituck Lion's member. And that is how we knew the situation came to be. And he got building permits for the buildings. And we operated this. Nobody ever stopped his operation did they? Except voluntarily when he went out of farming. Is that correct? MR. ROMANOWSKI: Yes. Very right. MEMBER DINIZIO: I just thought ..... MR. GOGGINS: It is not as if we are saying things that don't exist or we are saying that farmers go through certain processes and maybe we are trying to hide it from the Board. It is not that at all. Again, I don't personally, I don't Hke to mention names, unless I have authorization, like June Glover of Glover Farms. I can mention his name, he was-going to come up here tonight, but he had a co~ct. And I am sure he does trucking, and I think he does wholesaling. And he has a whole process there. And I am not sure how big of property is there, you know. But, I was hoping that he would arrive here tonight to testify, but he didn't. But anyone else, I don't, I just don't do that. If the Board would like to adjourn this thing again, .... MEMBER DINIZIO: No, absolutely not. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well, it is a good point, but... MEMBER DINIZIO I wanted to clear in that just up my mind you thought that there was some reason that, they wouldn't want their names for some reason. That the processes that they were doing on their on their own farms was in some way not recognized as an agriculture use. Page 44 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. GOGGINS: Well, if there is a situation where there is a guy that is surely doing wholesaling and he is doing it on a half acre piece of property inside a barn and it is not allowed by the Code, I' MR. GOGGINS (e0n't):don't want to bring up his name and say, well so and so is on the Main Road in Cutehogue, he is doing it, why can't we. And then the Board finds out, it gets around Town, all of a sudden there is a stop work order going over there or whatever. And that is why we don't like to mention any names or get involved in that .... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Also, in defense, and again ! have, I am trying to act completely neutral in this. The nature of the fact of mentioning, Henry mentioning that this property that his father's was, which was grandfather's, was on five (5) acres. These were massive buildings. These buildings were five, ten, fifteen thousand (5, 15,000) square feet buildings, okay. These were big buildings, I mean these buildings could house probably two thousand (2,000)people, if you put both of them together, you know, standing there. There is a relative difference between comparing one operation to another, based upon the size of the building and you know the size of the area. Because the two (2) buildings probably comprised an acre, you know, which he had back to back. And I can't emphasize the fact that they were brand new buildings. These were~ you had to know Henry's father, he only did things one way, and that was first class all the way, okay. Am I correct? MR. ROMANOWSKI: Very right. 'CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have no further questions. I think you did a great job. MR. GOGGINS: Okay, thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. MR. GOGGINS: Sam, do you have anything to add? MR. McCULLOUGH: Actually, yes I do. The agricultural industries are actually in the case of the fishery industry, which we are really just getting at here. There are many different things that go on other than the actual harvesting of the shellfish or the growing of the crops that complete the whole picture and contribute to the industry to give you a marketable product. You can't just grow things on your farm and, some people have farm stands, but then they got parking, they got retail and they have got their own collection of regulations that they have to go through. But to have a viable industry, there are many things that go on other than the actual production. And they are all related to the production that sells the crop, but they are not necessarily growing. It is all part of the farming business. We couldn't just grow wine grapes out here and sell grapes elsewhere. The cost of real estate is too high, we have to make wine. And over the years, we have been working on a system thereby we sell along with the · community and make wine. We can sell our wine. We can make wine for other people, we can do of these things that are contained in their own eode. This is something that has been quite well addressed. It is a Page 45 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 - MR. McCULLOUGH (con't.): relatively a new industry that has been establi~heC by people who have lots of energy, lots of money, lots of ambition to come down and hash out the problems.that they needed to solve, so that we could have '~ ~iable industry. Andqt is~working well. Some oZ~ these Older {{c~ustries, people, you know, a hundred years ago were growing potatoes or they were growing corn or they were catching fish. And everybody just did it the way it was done because that was how you did it. It is a great circular argument and... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That is the reason why we are here, Sam. And that is the whole interest in general okay. The creation of the Special permit for the winery, okay, was something that was required by the wine industry, prior to them actually really getting a foothold in Southold Town. MR. McCULLOUGH: It would be silly to make that type of investment and not know if you are really going to be able to turn it into a profitable business. CHAIRMAN GOEHI~INGER: Well, there are other things that the wine industry is asking for, similar to what exists in Napa Valley and in other areas, okay. But this Town has not been willing, and I am not talking for the Town, I am talking about being a member of that committee when we first met with you gentlemen. MR. McCULLOUGH: I am not up here to lobby for the wine industry. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I know you are not... MR. McCULLOUGH: There are a lot of other people to do that. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right, but I am just saying that we have gone that far at least. MR. MeCULLOUGH: But these different agencies, they aH involve a lot more than the actual act of growing or the act of catching something. The support that needs to be there also. And that is part of a viable industry, without it, the industry is gone. (tape changed) CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Any other testimony we can .... MR. GOGGINS: No, there is no other testimony, other than a closing statement after Mr. Flynn speaks. · CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes, Mr. Carlson you want to talk. MR. CARLSON: Yes. I would like to say a few things. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Just again, remember you are under oath from a prior hearing andstate your name for the record again. Page 46 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. CLAUDE CARLSON: Claude Carlson. There is a few little points, that was talked about here tonight that I would like to bring forth. One thing that was talked about here earlier was, they talked a lot about potatoes, but there is also vegetables and different types of MR. CARLSON (con't.):things they were doing. I would just like to make a point that a lot of the vegetables are not actually cut and processed or like taken from a grape to wine, all they do is trim and packaged to be marketable. We do the same thing with our shellfish, we deshell them instead of trimming them. We still sort them and so forth. We do exactly, in comparison, you could say some vegetables are handled the same way shellfish are handled, except that instead of taking the leaf off, we are taking the shell off. One, another point that was made here, is that, before we started taking the conches, for instance, out of the shell, we used to try to sell them in the shell, same as they were as potatoes, but we came across the same problem. The market price would be flooded out and instead of .... We would get three or four dollars ($3.00 or $4.00) a bushel for the conches we sell, ship them in the shell, compared to fifteen ($15.00) a bushel by the time we took the meats out of the shell. And that was the same type of idea that. farmers have problems with the potatoes and other crops where they can't just flood the market with them all at once. They need to package them, put them in storage, whether it is a freezer or wherever it may be and hold them so that they can dole them out and keep a decent reasonable return for the fisherman if he sells. I spent a little time in last month, I went and visited a few local farmers to get an idea what some of the farmers here were doing compared to what we are doing. And most of everything has been Said here tonight, I don't want to rehash it, but one point I did want to make, that noticed, that came to my mind, was that a lot of the farmers that are farming, and packaging, and marketing a product, farm product, whatever, the same as we are trying to do with a shellfish. The only difference, the only real difference I noticed was that they are using their small family operations, many of them, the same as ours is, but the only outside influx of people that they are dealing with are laborers which they hire to work on their farms. And the difference being with us, is that we don't hire other people outside of our family. Our family runs our own business. The other people we deal with our local Town fishermen, that are residents here that we are trying to work with to help out. It is not like we are bringing in outsiders. We are trying to help. the local people, as we are trying to help ourselves. And, one other little point I have here that, I don't know if it has been mentioned is that, when you harvest a product, I personally don't see where it makes any difference whether you are harvesting it out of the ground or out of the sea. You know, we are still harvesting a product. We are fortunate to have a public resource here, where we can go out and' have that land available to us, 'that out on the water land, to harvest out products, without having to lease it. There are leased bay bottoms in this bay that are taxed. And there are clam farmers that are using those bay bottoms. They are actually clamming, you know, farming clams, on a leased bottom, but I don't want to get into that because we would rather see it remain as public domain anyhow. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Can I ask you a question Claude? Page 47 Public Hearing f Southotd ZBA 6/4/92 MR. CARLSON: Sure. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It appears that your now getting into a retail operation and you are renting a building on the Main Road, is that correct? MR. CARLSON: That is correct. This has nothing to do with our business that we are doing now. This is a small retail shop that I am setting up for my wife and my mother-in-law to run in the summer season. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What are you doing. You are buying the stuff wholesale to place in there. Anything you can't... MR. CARLSON: [ am buying wholesale lobsters from myself and, you know, from my father's and my business and I will be buying local fish and some of the local fishermen I already deal with. I am going to sell in there. And I am buying local vegetables from local farmers and just having fresh seafood, live lobsters and local vegetables that I am selling as kind of an indoor/outdoor market. It is not actually a fish market. It is more a combination, but it has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. This is separate shop that I set up for a separate reason, to try to help out the situation. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The other question is, what you do think that the whole conch operation costs in reference to setting it up. That is those bins that you have that you boil them in and so on and so forth. MR. CARLSON: Well, .... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don't want to put you on the spot, but... MR. CARLSON: It is a tough question on the spot because it has a lot of money poured into it over the years, as things have been refined to make things better and simpler for us. Between pickup truck that we use to go the the dumps that we built into a little dump truck and the cost of the coolers and freezers and maintenance on the equipment. Since we have been there, you know, I figure it to be anywhere from fifty to one hundred thousand dollars ($50 to $100,000.00). I would have to sit down and try to figure it out. I mean probably closer to one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000.00) that we have invested to set ourselves up to where we are at this point now. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How would you categorize your business on the scale of a ma and pa operation? MR. CARLSON: Well, I am the only employee on the payroll. My father takes care of the books and helps out. The business helps pay some of the bills--light bills, and phones bills that we are allowed to use for our accountant set up. My brother, Bret, on the back here, he works for us part-time, helps me to do some delivering. Then when Duanne, do the conch shucking. My wife was helping doing the my son, bookkeeping, but she has been forced in the last year to find an outside job because we had a tough time, loosing our scallops and.. Basically, this year has been a very poor lobster year, at this point. Page 48 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. CARLSON (con't.)! 'Thee only thing that seems to be fairly consistent this year, which is a little fortunate for us, is the conches are holding up. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Who opened the scallops? MR.CARLSON: We are not in the big business. We are a small family business, the only outside employees are a few women and older guys that come over and open scallops for us in the fall. I think that is about it. I just want to take a quick look and see if i missed anything. Yea, I have one question back to you guys. In the discussions here tonight when things were mentioned about some farmers are still farming crops and some aren't. When-does a farmer stop becoming a farmer? You know, if he stops planting crops, does that make him no longer a farmer? If he is still running a farm operation, packing and marketing? ~ CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That is an interesting point. I had a discussion briefly with Mr. Krupski over on Northville Tpke. about that because, this is Riverhead, of course. He, of course, rents his farm for the sole purpose of sodding it. And he is a part owner of Riverhead Building Supply and he does use the barns for storage of lumber, okay. And, it is very interesting question. I can't answer that. I don't know when a farmer stops being a farmer. To my left, i have a gentleman that has been on this Board for thirty-five (35) years and the first question I asked him when he walked in the door tonight, okay, are you planting anything CharHe? And he said yes. So, I don't think a farmer ever stops becoming a farmer. To be honest with you. And I am not a farmer and I can't answer that question, but that is just my opinion. MR. CARLSON: That is the point I want to make .... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: When Henry was up here, Claude, Henry's father is growing sod, okay. It is still a farm operation, okay. It is the same situation. I really don't think they ever stop becoming farmers, really. Even if you have your own garden. MR. CARLSON: Well, that is the point I'm trying to make with us. With the agriculture and aquaculture comparison. I still fish, you know, just because my father doesn't. It doesn't mean he isn't a fisherman anymore, just because he is involved in our family business, still the same as someone else maybe that is doing farm operation, i am just trying to give a comparison. That is about aH I can say, I think. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application, yes. How are you tonight sir? Have you spoke before? · MR. STEVE LATSON: Yes, I am Steve Latson. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You are still under oath Steve. Page 49 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. LATSON: I just wafited to make to clear as a fisherman that it is totally unnecessary to shuck scallops, to make them marketable. I am sure that that is clear, but I don't know if it was on the record. And the conches really, if you are going to get any money for them, you MR. LATSON (con't):have to process them this way, otherwise you couldn't make any moneyin the conch business. That is it. It is the only way you can have a marketable product. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Anybody else? Seeing no hands, we will go on to the opposition. Is there anybody like to speak against this application? Yes, Mr. Flynn. MR. F.M.FLYNN: I am F.M. Flynn, resident of Southold, and I am under oath. Prior to making any remarks directly pertinent to this, I would like to clarify a situation which has arisen. Apparently, Mr. Moraillon has been criticized for his lack of attendance at these meetings. This is not by choice. Mr. Moraillon has probably never informed the Board, but he is an official of the French Government. He is in charge of an office in New York and his position entails international travel. Since this hearings have been held, to my personal knowledge, he has been back to Europe several times. He has been to China, he has been the West Coast and currently, as of this evening, he is meeting in Geneva, in Switzerland at a conference. So, as he informed me, it certainly is not a matter of a choice with him. When he is in New ~York, in effect of saying, is at fault. But, he has also informed me that he expects that this matter will be decided in accordance with the requirements of the Town Code and legal precedence, or he reserves his options to proceed in his own interest as his attorneys may advise. Now, with respect to this situation... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Can I just answer that. I came back from Virginia, which is the first trip I have taken in fourteen (14) months, a matter of three (3) days, my daughter having almost a near head-on collision down there in another vehicle. Seeing in the newspaper, a letter from this gentleman, okay. Somewhat of a rhetorical letter, alright. And I felt I had to answer it. And I did so, and I did so on the spur of the moment because of course, as you know, there is a time limits for the newspapers, when they go to press and so on and so forth. I am telling you as I stand before you and you have stood before me and I respect my elders, as I always have, Mr. Flynn, that I will cordially invite this gentleman to this hearing and extend this hearing for him. And I want you to call him. I don't care where he is in the World, okay. I want him here. If he wants to come, okay. MR. FLYNN: Well, obviously, I can't contact him in Geneva. I have · no idea where he is staying in Geneva. When he comes back to New York, I would certainly convey that to him. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You have two weeks .... MR. FLYNN: You can't tell me I have two weeks .... Page 50 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I didn't say you have two weeks, no. We are going to reconvene this hearing on the 30th of June for his exclusive use, if he wants to be here, okay. I am going to make that motion to the Board tonight. If he is available, we will calendar the hearing, we have exactly two (2) hearings on that night. And I know you will be CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER (con't.):here, because the hearing across from your property will be on, okay. Down on... And I cordially invite him to speak at this hearing, alright. Yes MR. CARLSON: He was just out here. .CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, so, that is it. That is all I can do for the gentleman, I can't do anything else, all right. I have answered him in the newspaper, and I respectfully, cordially invite him and that is all I can do, okay. We will reconvene this hearing, hopefully for only rebuttal from Mr. Goggins and we will let him address the Hoard. And if any members of the family, we would hope that they would reflect their opinions during the hearing to Mr. Goggins, and then we will close the hearing at that point. If that is airight with you. If he doesn't come and Mr. Goggins will come, we will close the hearing, and that is the end of it. MR. FLYNN: Well, I would like to say something in respect to this~ if I may continue. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes. MR. FLYNN: What I am really concerned with, there have' been so many changes and convolutions in this application, that I am not sure that I am... .I really understand the 'problem at the moment. As I understand it, what's being discussed is at least one question before the Board, mainly, it is now maintained that aquaculture and agriculture are synonymous terms. Is that correct? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That is not correct. That is exactly what they are asking us to interpret, if they are synonymous terms, okay. We have not made any determination... MR. FLYNN: That is an issue before the Board ..... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That is the issue before the Board, the only issue, to my- knowledge, before the Board. MR. FLYNN: Well, I would say that possibly there is a secondary issue. · CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What is that. MR. FLYNN: Even were this considered agriculture, which I would consider to beyond the stretch of the imagination, there is still a question of whether this constitutes a business. And if so, whether a variance is required. Page 5] Public Hearing ~,<~, ~ Southold ZBA 6/4/92 CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don't think thai we are to that point. Okay, on this particular piece of property, airight. If we were to that point, I would ask other questions, alright. Mk.. FLYNN: Yea, okay, with respect to this question of agriculi~ure and aquacul_ture, I th~nk this a question of ~ure tO maintain that they are in anyuvay related. I think the difference to the fishing industry, this might be well called a "Red Herring" issue. Either entails cultivation and growth of a product and obviously the product in one instance is the product of the land and the other of the sea. The Town Code is very clear as ~o what constitutes agriculture. With respect to its definitions in 100-13 and also with respect to the uses as provided for in an AC district. There is, of course, provision for aquaculture use in an entirely different zoning district. Now, what is, the latest business as I understand it, is that the application is for a wholesale distributorship. And the distributorship entails the distribution to a broader market of products not produced on the property. In effect, the distributor is a middleman. One who sells something produced on the property is a producer or a manufacturer, not a distributor. And, of course, the wholesale implies sales to retailers and not to consumers. Now, it is obvious that the intent here is to import products to be processed on the property that are not produced on the property. And is such would be in conflict with the Town Code~ Now, in my opinion, this entails a variance. And then we get to the usual question, one has received a lot of local, recent emphasis's, Steirthilber, Otto vs. Steinhilber, involving return on an investment. And I may not be exactly right on this, but I believe the investment in the proper~y, at the time it was purchased in 1980 was $40,000.00. And, as a permitted use, I am certain that the property, even in today's depressed market, could be sold for in excess of the purchase price of $40,000.00. Now, there is something that I would also like to question the Board rather quickly on. There is a Suffolk County Local Law, I think it is either 30 or 33, filed in 1988, a copy of which I found in the file. And ] don't know whether the Board places any reliance on this local law, but a careful reading of the law indicates that while its intent is to protect fisheries in Suffolk County, it is only to protect them against developments which arrive later on the scene, than an existing fishery and not the reverse. Now, with respect to this entire application procedure, we have had advanced to the Board the various submissions and comments that deviate from the truth, to phrase it rather mildly. We have heard here that prior to the applicant's purchase of the proper~y in 1980, thai as tenants they were involved in a fish processing business. Now, I find it highly significant that the purchase money mortgage drawn up by the grantor as mortgagee, states a rather unusual, it contains a rather unusual paragraph, where ii says that the property is improved only by a dwelling. And I call this to the attention to the Board, inception of this. Now, the grantee or the mortgagor signed that purchase money mortgage and it believes to that fact as of that time theproperty was improved only by a dwelling. So all this comment about the prior use of the property and the evolution of the business is in direct conflict with the acknowledged signature on that mortgage. Page 52 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That may be the case sir. We are not here to test that issue. I just want to mention this to you, okay. That I am not an attorney and I don't ever purport to be anything near an attorney, okay. But there are times when there are non-conforming uses on property, okay, that restate all of those things that you just said, alright. In this particular case... MR. FLYNN: I don't agree sir. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don't care if you don't agree, okay. The gentleman sitting right next to me has told us that his mother, his mother bought scallops at that site, x-amount of .years ago. And we could probably narrow those years of when she bought those scallops. Based upon his age, and his wisdom. So, what you are saying is fine for the record, but so far as I am concerned it does not hold a significant amount of credence. You can continue. I just, I want to restate that, okay. And I have heard -- I know you said that before-- But, go ahead. MR. FLYNN: Well, obviously I disagree for the simple reason that there was an intent in introducing that into the purchase money mortgage; Now, with respect to certain other things here. We also . have mentioned that in the course of the evolution of this property, the Building Dept. and the Assessment Dept. saw the three-fold expansion Of this property. At no time, did they note to anybody in the Town administration, to the best of what I have been able to find out, that the property was used for other than residential purposes. As a matter of fact, the property was carried on in the assessment records for years as a one-family dwelling and the improvements were carried as a garage. Now, that brings up an ancillary question that I am not qualified to answer, but it might be worthy of investigation, mainly whether this garage type building is adequate under the State building code for its present use. And the final comment I have to make with respect to, and this was testified I believe under oath, the question of odors from the property. And the 'question of Mr. Moraillon's letter which precipitated, I believe, your answer, where he referred to the police reports that we closed in the file here. Now, a careful reading of those reports indicated that these were not unfounded complaints, but rather that the Police Dept. saw enough merit in them in the production of obnoxious odors to forward them to the pertinent Town authorities for action. .Well, that is essentially what I had come prepared to say. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGE: All I said in my letter was that they were in the file and we were aware of them. That was basically the situation. MR. FLYNN: But, I think he was saying, and I cannot speak for him, but a question arose in my mind that if they were in the file and people are testifying under oath that there was no omission of obnoxious odors, a severe question of credibility has arisen. Now, with respect to, and this is, probably take of the just a moment, some remarks that I just jotted down here, the real confusion here, as I see it, is an attempt to equate agriculture and aquaculture, which are two divergent occupations and have been historically. And I believe I Page 53 Public Hearing ,~,~ Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. FLYNN (con't.): heard essentially that potatoes were unchanged in character, despite the process they went through, when they were eventually packaged for shipment. The question of treating these potatoes on premises where they were not produced was sort of skirted as a question of questionnable legality. And one of the last statements made here was to the effect that was not the advisable thing. To inform the authorities of somebody who might be processing potatoes illegally on a MR. FLYNN (eon't.):half acre plot. Even though I don't conceive the relationship of potatoes to seafood, the question arises is that very much different and, one of the gentleman here raised a question as well, as to the size of this plot. Now this plot is one-acre in area. It would certainly has bearing on both the noise and odors eminating from it, the type of odor and its relationship to something that may possibly be of a lesser nature, but eminating from a much larger property. Now, also, the word, was employed by, I believe, everybody testified here at least one time or another, that there was a business being conducted on this property. If there is a business, it is my contention that it requires a variance to conduct this business as I mentioned before. And, essentially, I believe that summarizes what I would have to say on the subject. I shall make every attempt to contact Mr. Moraillon, but obviously I don't know how long he is going to be in Europe, nor do I have any direct means of communication with him. So, if he is available, I will see to it .... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don't mean to put on the in you spot reference to requesting him to be here, however, he did inform us that he was not going to be here. I just would like you to mention to him that we are aware that there are odors eminating from these, from the use of these buildings, not necessarily this one, but aH buildings that are in this particular realm. And that the nature of him testifying al this particular hearing, I don't think necessarily has to couch that issue, okay. Because we are aware of it. There is no question about it, alright. ] would just like to have him an opportunity to testify, if he so wants to and, you know, I am extending it for that particular reason. MR. FLYNN: I will certainly convey that to him. And my final commen~ is that it must be apparent to everybody here that ever read the Code, that the emission of noxious odors is a prohibited use in any zoning category in the Town of Southold. If we are conceding that we do have obnoxious odors, I don't see that there is any question... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I am not conceding to anything. I am just saying to you that I am aware that things smell. And that is it. And whatever, to whatever degree they do, would have to be determined at the time that they were doing it. Synonymous with the new law that exists in the Village of Greehport, where they have not purchased decibel readers, okay, to check the noise that is eminating from certain areas thai exist on the docks down there. It is the same situation, okay. You got to be there at the time, you got to check it, and there has to be an evaluation for checking. MR. FLYNN: Well, except for one thing, I don't want to prolong this any longer than is absolutely necessary, but you have the dispassionate Page 54 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. FLYNN ~co,n't~: wi[i~es~s' [lk&al~u persons of the police reported on this to the Town. They were called because they were obnoxious odors, they admitted that they were, and felt that this was beyond their enforcement power and submitted their reports to the Town for enforcement. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Mr. Goggins? MR. GOGGINS: Just a rebuttal to some of Mr. Flynn's statements Police reports are really allegations, and in our Country you are innocent until proven guilty. And that is why we have courts. So, attacking credibility of people at these hearings, is improper. It really shouldn't be done. When you go to court and have a fair hearing, and it is determined who is telling the truth and who isn't, police reports are merely allegations and that is all they are. With respect to a mortgage that you referred to being fraudulent at the last hearing, whenever you file a mortgage, you have to put in it, whether it is improved or not improved by a dwelling. You can't file a mortgage unless you do it. So, again, it is irrelevant at the hearing tonight. Thirdly, we are here basicaily just for the interpretation here of it. We are not here for a variance or anything else. After hearing Mr. Flynn's comments at the last hearing in regards to his definitions of agriculture and so forth. I think it is important for the Board to know that whenever two (2) people have an agreement, let us say to do something, to buy a business or whatever, they will define terms. And if they define a term called default, and they define it as being whatever, than that definition is controlling in that agreement. No matter what Webster says, no matter what Black's Law Dictionary says, no matter Wilbur Wilson says, it is ali, it doesn't matter, it is only according to that agreement. And the same thing with taw. When they codify laws, when they set forth definitions, the definitions control. In our code, we have section 100-30 and it defines agriculture, okay. And in it, I have a copy here, and I am sure you have read it tonight and so forth. I was reading it, the definition is the production, keeping, or maintenance for sale, lease, or personal use of plants and animals useful to man including but not limited to, etc. So, I read animals, and I said what is an animal, so I went to the Code to find the definition of an animal and I couldn't find it. Now, we are at a point where there is an interpretation of what animal is because it is not defined. So, I went to the dictionary at that point, it is not in the Code~ And the dictionary stated that an animal is any living being capable of sensation and the power of voluntary motion, distinguished from plants. So then I said to myself, what is a living being, there is no, there is nothing in the dictionary defined as a living being. So I went to living and it is something that is alive and I went to being and it is something that exists. So, so really seafood, shellfish, it is an animal,' it can be interpreted as an · animal. And, as agriculture is defined here, it states animal use. And I think that is the point where we can say yes, shellfish can be seen as agriculture use. That is the legal point I wanted to bring home. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It is an interesting point. Page 55 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. GOGGINS: It is. And, also, I ran across a case, and I have copies for the Board, and I have s copy for Mr. Flynn~ should he want to look at it, and coincidentally, it involves a seafood business, distributing in the Town of HuntingTon, where this guy was distributing seafood in some district and the Town brought him to the Zoning Board of Appeals or whatever and the thing wasn't defined. Distribution business was never defined, so, they went to court and they said it was not defined and the court held, as a case. And the court MR. GOGGINS (con't.) :held that since the Zoning Ordinance under review does not define distribution center and it is unclear precisely what is meant by these words, the resulting ambiguity must be resolved against the municipality and in favor of the petitioner. And, I saw that as being interesting too, because if the Town doesn't have enough definitions so that the people can see what they are doing and how relates, then any question, any interpretation should be done in favor of the applicant and not in favor of preventing anything from going on in this situation. So, I will hand up To the Board now, a copy of the case. It is a 1981 case, (Hands out copies to Board and Mr. Flyrtu.) There is one other point I want to bring up, was in reference to the Suffolk' County Resolutions that Mr. Flynn brought up. And in right in it, I know, we ali have copies of this resolution, and it states the purpose of this law is To reduce the loss to the County of its fishing resources by limiting the circumstances under which fishing and fish processing maybe deemed to be nuisance. So what they are saying is listen, we want, we don't want action, because it is ruining the industry. So, Suffolk County got together and said let us pass this law to abate these nuisance actions. And thai is what this law is all about. It is not someone coming to the nuisance, you know, it is not like there is a shellfish distribution business that is eminating odors and they put a subdivision next to it. And the Town says well, the shellfish business is there first, so, they get to stay there, even though they smell. Or the opposite is that the subdivision, and then a seafood business goes next door, you know. It doesn't go in favor of the prior owners necessarily. And that is exactly what this law is saying. It is saying wait a second, we want to protect the fishing industry and that is why they passed it. You know, in my opinion, from reading the law. I know we all have copies of it. You have them on file right? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes. MR. GOGGINS: So, that is the last point I wanted to make, that Mr. Flynn's representation was a little bit misguided. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Are we close to the conch season these days? Are we getting in there or... MR. CARLSON: Yea, we are right in the middle of it. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We are right in the middle of it, okay. So, again, Claude, we could have invitation some time to come down when you are boiling these babies up? Okay. Page 56 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. CARLSON: We have been at regular, normal full production for the past four (4) weeks and no problems. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well~ we will stop down then sometime, if it is alright with you, and took at it again. MR. CARLSON: We are not doing it everyday just with weather and availability. If anybody wants to give us a call, we can tell you which days, you know, we will be working Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday MR. CARLSON (con't.):or not until Thursday or Friday, for instance. You can pick whatever day you want, but let us know that week, we will tell what days we will be in that operation. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Wonderful. Thank you. Yes. MR. FLYNN: If I may make a couple quick comments. With respect to the this local law, my reading of it believes in part of the recent interpretation of it. Mainly that is was intended to protect the fishing industry for those sites utilized for that purpose that were established prior to the dwell of the surrounding properties, not subsequent. And that, of course, is not the situation here. Now, with respect to the purchase money mortgage, it is true that in many instances these mortgages do recite the improvements on the property. This particular mortgage cites a residential use only. Now, with respect to the allegations to the police department, I think these bear more weight than mere allegations. The Police didn't treat them as nuisances or crank summonses. They appeared, they believed that there was merit, or so I am informed, toward to the complaint. And infurtheranoe of that, submitted them to the Town administration. That is not the action I believe the Police Dept. takes in a complaint that has no merit. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Mr. Carlson. MR. CARLSON: I am sorry to drag this on, but I just got to say one more thing here after that. I was there when the Police came. ! read the report afterwards. The Police reports ailegated nothing, except that they were eailed. They responded to a call, just the same as they did when they responded to a call because there was a band playing over there. Well, the Police report said that I saw, and I talked to the two (2) Police Officers that were there, in fact, I was standing in front of the barn, not two (2) feet in front of the barn with two (2) police officers the last time that Ted called them over there. And, they stood right there with me and they said we don't see any problem, we have to answer the call, we were told to come here to respond to a call, we are here. I said, well, do you see anything that is a problem. They said no. So, I can't believe that he's or so he heard that there is something in the Police reports saying something, because if there is, I am unaware of it, and I was right there first hand. CHAIRMAN GOERHINGER: This may be a new first for the ZBA in future hearings on this particular matter here. And that is to ask one or two of those police officers to come down at the request of the Chief and ask them. Page 57 Public Hearing Southold ZBA 6/4/92 MR. CARLSON: I would have been glad to ask either or of the two that were there the day when they both came, to come down here, but I thought limited this tortight to the ..... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We did. It is a little premature. MR. CARLSON: Mr. Flynn brought up a lot of points, I would have like to respond to, but we have already been through that, but I did want to answer this last one. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No problem. Thank you. MR. CARLSON: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Hearing no further comment, I make a motion recessing this until the last meeting in the month of June, preferably for comments only by a gentleman that is not available for the evening and for the attorney of the applicant to rebut anything that may or may not be said or any last minute thillgs that might happen. Just those two people. Again, closing all portions of the record, we have heard the illformation that we were looking at... I will be honest with you, there is nothing mysterious to what we do. There is nothing. We don't stand up here and do anything, other than what we are suppose to do. And quite honestly, by the issue of what exists today in the agricultural district, there is a great similarity to what exists, in my opinion, and I am not forcing anybody to change there mind, or altering anybody's opinion, because I don't do that, okay. I just find a great similarity between agriculture and aquaculture. Ahd that is just my opinion. I thank you ladies and gentlemen for your patience and safe home. ~ Lorraine A. Miller (Transcribed by tapes recorded 6/4/92.)