HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-09/26/1991 HEARING TRANSCRIPT OF HEARINGS
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
REGULAR ~EETING OF
THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 1991
Board Members Present: Chairman Gerard P. Goehringer and
Members: Dinizio, Doyen, Grigonis and ~illa
Linda Kowalski, Z.B.A. Secretary and approximately 22 oersons
in the audience.
Appl. No. 4054 - WILLIAM A. HANDS,JR.
The Hearing opened at 7:30 p.m.
The Chairman read the legal notice for the record and application
before receiving testimony.
The application as mentioned in the legal notice is a 10'
addition by approximately 33' to the rear of the service station
and the combination dwelling area. I have a copy of a survey
that was dated November 29, 1990 by Roderick VanTuyl P.C. indicating
in dotted lines the proposed aodition and I have a copy of Suffolk
County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the
area. Is Mr. Hands available? How do you do sir. Maybe you
might want to use the mike once and maybe someone has some questions.
Is there anything you would like to state for the record?
MR. HANDS: I don't have anything to state really. Mk. Villa
and Mr. Dinizio as far as I know were the only two people from
the Board down to view the property.
CHAIRMAN: I was down and I did't see you. I was in a blue Camaro
and I apologize. I was in a bit of a rush. I had to run up to
that private road just to the east and had little time left and
I apologize. Is this addition going to be a one story addition
as the back is now?
MR. HANDS: It is a Gne story addition and the roof is going to
be raised.
CHAIRMAN: How much higher will the roof be?
MR. HANDS: The roof presently is approximately 10' What we
want to do is go to the peak of the building which is 20' and
being it down'to 14'. I think its going at 14'
CHAIRMAN: 14' it is 'and the smallest at the end of the 10'
addition
Page 2 - Appl. No. 4054
William A. Hands, Jr.
Hearing Transcript of September 26~ 1991
MRo HANDS: Put two 12~ doors in for a legal bulkhead.
CHAIRMAN: Will~ there be.any s~orage above that?
MR. HANDS: No, it is open. We have storage above the existing
building which we may utilize through this addition but that's
down the road.
CHAIRMAN: What is your timeliness on this? Do you need a
decision as quickly as possible.
MR. HANDS: We would appreciate it because Obviously our need
for it is fairly immediate. We would like to do it this winter°
Obviously once you people have approval we would get going°
CHAIRMAN: We thank you for coming in and we will do the best we
can for you within the next two weeks. I don't know if we will get
to it tonight depending upon how late the meeting goes. Thank
you again. Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor
or this application, anyone like to speak against the application?
Questions from Board members? Hearing no further questions, I
make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until
later. Seconded.
ALL IN FAVOR: AYE.
Applo No, 4049 MR. AND MRS. JOSEPH CARPENITO.
The Hearing opened at 7:35 p.m.
The Chairman read the legal notice for the record and application
before receiving testimony.
CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of the site plan indicating this particular
addition which is a garage area in the front yard or garage in the
front yard area approximately 15' x 22' and it was produced by
Sambach Associates~ most recent date is 7/18/91 and t have a copy
of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding
properties in the area. Mr. Sambach how are you tonight?
MR. SAMBACH: Good evening.
CHAIRMAN: What w~uld you like to state for the record?
'Page 3 Appl. No. 4049
Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Carpenito
Hearing Transcript of Spetember 26, 1991
MR. SAMBACH: Once again I'm here before you in reference to
Gardiners Bay Estates whereby many homes were constructed before
any zoning wa$~in effect. Houses were buil~ on the property
without regard'to sideyard or frontyard setback so consequently
any additions we have to come before you. According to the deed
restrictions garages have to be attached to the house, they cannot
be built separate from th~ house. The proposed attached garage
will be added to the front part of the existing structure shown
on the plot plan. I have submitted some pictures to you showing
the foliage along the east side of the property line between
Carpenito and James Fisher's property. This foliage will screen the
proposed garage from the adjoining property. Dogwood Lane is a
50' wide roadway which has not been developed and the residence
and the propsed garage is well set back from Dogwood Lane. On
behalf of my client, Mr. and Mrs. Carpenito, we respectfully re-
quest consideration be given to the variance for the frontyard
and sideyard setbacks.
CHAIRMAN: Is this a one story structure?
MR. SAMBACH: Yes sir, that's right. The same as the house,
the same pitch. The roof pitch would be the same as the house.
CHAIRMAN: At its closest point it is approximately 5' from the
property line?
MR. SAMBACH: I believe that is what it s'hows on the plan.
CHAIRMAN: Is there any reason why you didn't choose to move it
over a little bit farther. Is it because it would cover the front
of the house? Is that the main reason?
MR. SAMBACH: Probably it would have covered the front of the house.
CHAIRMAN: Is there any reason, why we are going with 15' rather than
a normal 12 or 13' garage?
MR. SAMBACH: Just to get a little bit more space. We could go
to 13'
CHAIRMAN: I'm just asking the question because...
MR. SAMBACH: Like while he is here he would like a 15' garage.
If you will notice there is two g6rage, doors, one in the front and
one is the back and that's to put his boat in and push it through
to the back yardi
Page 4 - Appl. No. 4049
Mro and Mrs. Joseph Carpenito
Hearing Transcript of September 26, 1991
CHAIRMAN: You don't see that too often, except over on Carroll
Road. We will ~do the best we Qan. We thank you for coming down.
Are there any questions the Board has for this gentleman?
MEMBER VILLA: The only problem I had is you talk about the foliage
on the side and I paced off the 15' and you~eright in the bushes.
A lot of those bushes really aren't on your property or your
applicant's property°
MR. SAMBACH: No, they belong to Jim Fisher.
MEMBER VILLA: What I was going to say was the window in the house
is located in probably three or four feet from the side of the
building. It would seem that you could either do two things
narrow the garage or shift it over in front of the house a little
bit. I'd like to see about 8' from that side line if it could be
gotten. Is that where you protect the bushes more? Do you have
any objection to making it smaller.
MR. SAMBACH: No objection.
CHAIRMAN: Again we are talking 3' at its closest point so now we
down to 12'. Do you want to move it over a little bit farther so
as to cover up to that window or do you want to start right at the
corner of the house?
MEMBER VILLA: It wouldn't be, the window is in three or four feet.
MR. SAMBACH: We cannot go more than two feet. We don't want to
block that window.
CHAIRMAN: We thank you again. We'll deal with it.
MR. SAMBACH: Thank you gentlemen.
CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor
of this application, anybody like to speak against the application?
Hearing no further questions, I'll make a motion closing the hearing
and reserving decision until later.
ALL IN FAVOR: AYE
Page 5 - Appl. No. 4053
Douglas Morris
Hearing Transcript of September 26, 1991
Appl. No. 4053 - DOUGLAS MORRIS
The Hearing opened at 7:40 p.m. ~
The Chairman read the legal notice for the record and application
before receiving testimony.
CHAIRMAN: I Have a survey here from William R. Simmons, Jr., most recent
date is June 27, 1991. This application is a proposed deck in the rear
yard area. It is showing us - we will ask the applicant. I see 40' mentioned
here and we will ask that question, I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax
Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there someone
here representing the Morris'. How do you do sir.
ERNEST RICHTER: I'm the contractor for the Morris'.
CHAIRMAN: Could you just give me an idea - is that 40' showing the distance from
the bulkhead to the proposed dec or what is that thing.
ERNEST RICHTER: To the edge of the steps.
CHAIRMAN: This deck will be raised approximately how high above the grade?
Even with the glass sliding doors?
ERNEST RICHTER: It is approximately 2'.
CHAIRMAN: Unroofed?
ERNE~ST RICHTER: Unroofed.
CHAIRMAN: Just a complete open deck.
ERNEST RICHTER: That's all.
CHAIRMAN: The house looks beautiful. It is a beautiful spot. We will do the best
we possibly cam for you. We thank you for coming ~n sir. Is there anyone else
who would like to speak in favor of this application. Anyone like to speak
against the application? Hearing no further hands or discussion I ~ake a motion
closing the hearing and reserving the decision until later.
ALL IN FAVOR: AYE.
Page 6 - Appl. No. 4052
John and Evelyn Keating
Hearing Transcript of September 26, 1991
Apple No. 4052 - JOHN AND EVELYN KEATING
The Nearing opened at 7:45 p.m. ~
The Chairman read the legal notice for the record and application
before receiving testimony.
CHAIPJqAN: This survey is Peconic Surveyors, most recent date November 5, 1987
indicating the older cottage frame house on the property somewhat centrally
located and skewed toward the water and the other information that is mentioned
on the survey and I have a copy of Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and
surrounding properties in the area. Is there someone who would like to be
heard, Hello Ms. Moore, How are you?
MS. MOORE: Very good~ thank you. I've grown a bit since the last time I
saw you. We are here on behalf of Mr. and Mrs° Keating. The Keatings
purchased this property back in 1973. They obtained at the closing Certificate
of Occupancy for the existing bungalow and relying on that CO were able to
obtain financing throughout the term of their ownership. In June of 1988
this Board granted a variance for the construction of a new home with the
intent to demolish the existing structure and to rebuild a new home there~
All in accordance with the approved appeal that you just mentioned. In
January of 1989 unfortunately for the Keatings amendments were made to the
Southold Town zoning code which required proof of Single and Separate ownership
for building permits although the Code does not specifically state that a
single and separate search has to go back to 1957. That is the interpretation
that has been given. An unecessary hardship is created by the interpretation
of the zoning code onto to the Keating'~parcel~ Because of the history of
this parcel it is somewhat unique. Back in October of I924 Celia Poey ac-
quired title from Phillips for this and the adjacent property, both were
owned as one parcel. In 1968 Celia Poey had two children~ She conveyed,
she split the parcel and conveyed one to her dauther, Margaret Lovejoy~ and the
an adjacent vacant parcel to her son, Cortlandt Poey. Mr. Poey is still alive
and he is a practicing lawyer in his eighties se we were able to speak to him
and find out what had occurred. He told us that everything was above board,
it was very open, that the split was done with the permission of the building
inspector at the time, Mr. Terry. Apparently in 1968 the zoning code excluded
from the minor subdivision regulations transfers orsubsplits that were within
family members and since that was the case with this parcel, the aplit was
permitted. The parcels exceeded the minimum lot sizes at the time and they
obtained CO's for this existing residence and ultimately MR. Poey built a
home on the adjacent parcel and obtained a CO. The Keatings are under contract
to sell the property and the contract will be terminated if they are not able
to obtain this variance and the Board is unable to recognize the validity of
this parcel. Clear'dollars proof can be shown here because there is a contract
for the sale of this parcel for $202,000. That's a substantial amount of money
that would be lost if this property is not recognized. Southold Savings Bank
has also loaned on this parcel back in 1989 with the strength of CO that was
in existence at the time. Again, the hardship is unique because of t~e history
of th~s parcel. The variance would observe the spirit of the ordinance and
would not change the character of the area. The prop~ed.house is a summer
Page 7 - Appl. No. 4052
John and Evelyn Keating
Hearing Transcript of September 26~ 1991
MS. MOORE' continued:
which has this £urrent CO. It would be replaced with a home that would
meet all the New York State fire prevention and building code requirements
so the home that would be replaced there would be of much better and larger
stature than what is there presently. Recognition of this parcel as a
validly created parcel would ~ot only be legally appropriate in this case
but in the interest of justice. Because of the time restraints we have on
the contract and the fact that they have been very cooperative in allowing
us to extend the ~eriod of time for closing, we would respectfully reouest
that the Board consider this appeal and if at all possible grant it this
evening so we can go back and hopefully close title. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor
of this application. Anyone like to speak against the application. Seeing
no hands, I'll make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until
later and call us tomorrow morning.
MS. MOORE: We will call you tomorrow morning.
CHAIRMAN: ALL IN FAVOR. AYE.
Appl. No. 4051 - WILLIAM AND JOAN FISHLINGER
The ~earing opened at 7:50 p.m.
The Chairman read the legal notice for the record and application
before receiving testimony.
CHAIRMAN: The site plan is based upon a survey by Roderick VanTuyl, P.C.
dated July 8, 1991 and it includes some extensive landscaping and decking
area and steps, etc. to the rear of this particular dwelling unit and I
have a copy of Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding pro-
oerties in the area. Is there someone who would like to be heard?
Mr. Cichanowicz/ How are you sir?
MR. CICHANOWICZ: I'm fine.
CHAIRMAN: A beautiful piece of property ~ did see on Sunday. morning rather
early as the sun was coming up. A magnificient spot. What would you like to
add to the hearing.
MR. CICHANOWICZ: Well the biggest hardship ~n my client's interest is the
fact that the house is now located very close to the dwelling and water and
they may not have a sizable area that they can enjoy that beautiful view that
they have there. A variance would allow them to extend their living area
and enjoy the bauty of that little creek there.
· Page 8 - Appl. No. 4051
William and Joan Fishlinger
Hearing Transcript of September 26, 1991
CHAIRMAN: This area in the center, is this a deck or is it ground level or
what. How much elevation are we going to have there.
MR. CICHANOWICZ:..~ The deck that is ~ttached to the house would be approximately
18" above grade or at a level that you would be able to come out of the house
onto a level deck. From that point the stairs constructed down the bluff would
be all above grade or following grade without disturbing any major soils at all
and the deck at the bottom where it starts to join the bulkhead again would be
sitting on top of grade, not disturbing any grade except where you see on the
plan away from the water edge there is a small retainment just to allow just
a little extra size of the deck amenity of the area, if that is feasible by
the Board here.
CHAIRMAN: Can you give me an idea on square footage. You don't have to do it
tonight about the upper deck, how much that would be total square footage in the
lower deck because in dealing we that we have to deal on the basis of the decision
at the writing and it it is somewhat difficult to do. Can you give us some
idea in reference to square footage. It is a detailed site plan but it does
not include - we could scale it off but I~d rather have you do it because of
all kinds of curves and movements.
MR. CICHANOWICZ: It is approximately 1000 sq. ft. overall between the
bulkheads.
CHAIRMAN: What would you say the upper one is - about 800 sq.ft.
MR. CICHANOWICZ: No. It is actually kind of deceiving because of curves
and shapes . The upper is about 650 to 700 sq.ft, and the balance is down
below. ~
CHAIRMAN: That deck down below will be even with the bulkhead.
MR. CICHANOWICZ: It will be placed on top at a level that will be about 6'~
above. There is an existing walkway now that comes out from the bulkhead.
This deck will be constructed so as to thel~'a~t¢ould disturb what's underneath
would be basically the top of the bulkhead or at that particular grade. It
would be one step down to the catwalk that would take you out to the
CHAIRMAN: We thank you very much for explaining that to us. Anyone else. who
would like to speak in favor of this application. Anyone like to speak against
the application? Seeing no hands, I~ll make a motion closing the hearing
reserving decision until later.
ALL IN FAVOR. AYE.
Page 9 - Appl. ~o. 3539
Michael Herbert
Hearing Transcript of September 26, 1991
Appl. No. 3539 - MICHAEL HERBERT
The Hearing opene~ a~ 8:00 p.m.
The Chairman read the legal notice for the record and application
before receiving testimony.
CHAIRMAN: I have copy of sketch of original plan which shows the house that
has been there for many~ many years with really no difference in either
situation of the special permits and I have a copy of the Suffolk County
Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties ~n the area. Michael,
would you like to say something for the record?
MICHAEL HERBERT: Nothing other than to say that the apartments worked out
very well. I thank you.
CHAIRMAN: No complaints from the neighbors.
MICHAEL HERBERT: None whatsoever.
CHAIRMAN: I thank you. Anyone else who would like to speak in favor of this
apllication. Anyone against the application. I make a motion withdrawing the
original Bed and Breakfast application.
ALL IN FAVOR. AYE.
Appl. No. 4056 - CONSTANTINOS MARKOTSIS
The Nearing opened at 8:00 p.m.
The Chairman read the legal notice for the record and application
before receiving testimony.
CHAIRMAN: The plan from Proper T Services by James E. Fitzgerald, Jr., August 14,
1991 indicating a one story frame house approximately 20' from the right of
way which is Williamsburg Road and the nature of this application is a completed
or nearly completed proposed covered deck which lacks the roof area but the
timbers are up. When I say the roof area I am referring to the fiberglass roofing
except for one or two pieces which is at its closest point 71'2" to the steps
or 74'2" to the existing, it appears to be property line. I apologize, the
bulkhead and I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and
surrounding properties in the area. Mr. Fitzgerald. HOw are you tonight sir.
Page 10 - Appl. No. 4056
Constanti nos Markotsi s
Hearing Transcript of September 26, 1991
MR. FITZGERALD: I don't have anything to add to that except that it was ~h6r¢
already and Mr. Mnrkotsis built.it ih good faith and we're to fix it. That's
the situation right now.
CHAIRMAN: So we are in this particular case, notwith standing the steps, we
are about 10" outside of the v~riance area for the deck itself and some 3+ feet
if we included the steps.
MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, so the steps could be moved.
CHAIRMAN: I would assume that in dealing with this application I'll make
a motion that the deck not be any further enclosed other than what is there
in the roofing ~
MR. FITZGERALD: To finish the roof. Nothing solid.
CHAIRMAN: That's fair. Making it a habitible portion of the house. We thank you
sir. Anyone else who would like to speak in favor of this application. Against
the application. Hearing no further comment, I make a motion to close the
hearing reserving decision until later.
ALL IN FAVOR. AYE.
Appl. No. 4008 - ALEX HOMAYUNI AND CHARLES KAPOTES
The Hearing opened at 8:04 p.m.
The iChairman read the legal notice for the record and application
before receiving testimony.
CHAIRMAN: This was recessed from March 22, 1991 and is in behalf of the
appliCants being represented by Ward Associates. I see that gentleman in the
rear of the room who appears to be from Ward Associates. Would you like to
say something concerning this proposal sir.
LARRY FEELEY: I'm from Ward Associates on behalf of the owners. We have
stated in the letter of August 29 and I believe you have a copy._. Basically
what the owner's position is on behalf of this application is that they believe
the lot coverage being 2% of the lot over the allowable ~s fairly minimal in
magnitude and they felt the use being two family~ which has a CO prior to,
I assume the code change,would permit that use and also that the use being
a two family immediately adjacent to the motel uni~Bas a fairly reasonable
transition between the motel and the sin~e family d,~ellin§s in the area. As
a concession the owners are willing to put a covenant restriction on the water
side parcel in order to keep that commonly open as to public access-as.to the
view of the Sound. It would not be permitted to be built on other restriction,
that t~e owners would be ~illing to place on that. Other than that, I think
that is about .all I can say. At the last hearing, I apologize, we were not
able to come to, the concern was raised regarding the sanitary system which
· Page 11 - Appl. No. 40~
Alex Homayuni and Charles Kapotes
Hearing Transcript of September 26~ 1991
LARRY FEELEY: continued
has been addressed since then and w~ are currently even modifying the
approval that we have already gotten. Recently we spoke to the Health
Department two days ago and will upgrading it from a modified one family
system to a full-fledged two family sanitary system which was put in the
remotest corner we could find ~n the site actually to give us adequate
clearance to the well, which was brought up at the last meeting. Therefore,
we would mee~ the Suffolk County Health Department requirements for a two
family sanitary flow also and permit the permissible distance to the well
would be more than adequately satisfying. That's all.
CHAIRMAN: Let me just ask you a question. What would happen if we did
not grant the 2% lot coverage over.
LARRY FEELEY: I believe that is stated here. The coverage was needed for
the storage shed which is an 8 x 10 proposed shed which would replace the
metal shed they have on the site now. Also, about 6" would have to be taken
off the addition which is roughly 10' and therefore decreasing the interior
rooms to less ~han 10 on that side of the building. We just felt that was
minimal, but it could be done if that was required.
CHAIRMAN: The addition itself, I apologize, because as you know, there
are many hearings since March and that's why In refreshing my memory here
with this thing. The addition itself is approximately 10' off the rear of
the house as it actually has two front yards. So if we do not grant the
lot coverage of 2% it would mean the removal or the non-existence of a new
proposed shed and some surgically carvin~ of whatever that percentage would
be away from the house. You're still continuing with the well. The well
is going to be utilized on the house - you're not going to hook up to Greenport
water~
LARRY FEELEY: We are hooking up to city Water which is available to the
whole neighborhood. I believe it is the Kemptner's side, the adjacent parcel.
They have a well which they want to and can't even use. The reason we did
it was to clear their well.
CHAIRMAN: So you're going to be far enough away from them. You're going to
be 100' from their well.
LARRY FEELEY: 100 plus; I believe it is 140' to our septic.
CHAIRMAN: The cess pool system is going to g9, where.
LARRY FEELEY: I guess the northwest corner of the site. Like I said, we
would be connected to city water. They are now.
CHAIRMAN: We think you sir. We will see if there are any questions. Is there
anyone else who would like to speak in favor of this application. Anyone like
to speak against the application. Yes sir. Would you kindly state your name
for the record.
Page 12 - Appl. No. 4008
Alex Homayuni and Charles Kapotes
Hearing Transcript of Spetember 26, 1991
MR. KEMPNER: i'm satisfied with the moving of the sewer system. I just heard
something now which I object to and this is the covenant and restriction on
building on that,-lot 4 because that~is a public beach.
CHAIRMAN: You mean other people have rights of way of that beach.
MR. KEMPNER: Other people hav6 rights on it and we pay two thirds of the
taxes on it with the other people so I don't know if they have a ~ght to
give that covenant. I don't know what they gain by doing..it. I think they
hurt themselves because sometime in the future they might want to put a little
boat shed down there and then they would be restricted from doing ito It doesn't
make sense to me. I can also say...
CHAIRMAN: They do have title to it though, is that correct.
MR. KEMPNER: They have title. I don't know how that works~
CHAIRMAN: They have title to it and you pay for a portion of the tax.
MR. KEMPNER: We've paidfor a portion of the taxes and we have beach rights
in perputuity.
CHAIRMAN: Is that the exact location of the public beach or the beach area
through Goldin Lane. Is that what everyboy uses,
MR. KEMPNER: That's what the east side of the laneuse.
CHAIRMAN: The west side has another. ~
MR. KEMPNER: The west side has the adjacent forty feet. This plot plan is
very misleading. .
Change tape - some discussion inaudible.
MR. KEMPNER: That altitude line now is under water. I would like to see that
convenant and restriction removed.
MEMBER VILLA: For clarity purposes I think what they're talking about is
sterilizing f~r a residence. Residential construction. In other words you
wouldn't want a house built there,
MRo KEMPNER: It is 40 x 50 lot. How can you build a house there°
MEMBER VILLA: You're saying that but we have seen strange things happen.
The Courts rule that if it held in single and separate ownership ~mr it's
a separate entity it can be built upon. So basically, all they.afe:d~i~g is
that they are going to sterilize it so a residential structure cannot be
built upon it. I'think the C & R's can allude to that if that is what your
concern is.
Page 13 - Appl. No. 4008
Alex Homayuni and Charles Kapotes
Hearing Transcript of September 26, 1991
MR. KEMPNER: That's my only concern. At one time there was a very steep
Stair there.
MEMBER VILLA: Our concern is increased density. We don't want anything else
happening there and I think we didn't clarify that.
MR. KEMPNER: But if we wanted~to put a deck on the stair that would be
something different and we'll have that'option. Because at.one..time there was
a very steep.stair and we bad two older women ]ivin9 bn the block and we
redesigned the stair and put a little deck on there so they would have a
place to stop going up and down.
MEMBER VILLA: The C & R~s can be explicit so there won't be any residential
construction.
CHAIRMAN: We would say no primary structures.
MR. KEMPNER: That's fine with me.
CHAIRMAN: Does any one want to add,to
LARRY FEELEY: I didn't think of Mr, Kempner's objection. That is fine
with us. We would just like to offer it so that the public view would be
m2intained. We do know that the immediate adjacent parcel owned by the Xrg-
yrides's'.~ does have a DEC permit for construction so you tell me it couldn't
be built on as was stated already and that's why we can offer it.
CHAIRMAN: Your applicants do have title'to Lot #4 don't you.
LARRY FEELEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN: Hearing no further questions I'll make a motion closing this
particular hearing and reserving decision until later.
ALL IN FAVOR: AYE.
Page 14 - Appl. No. 4050
Richard Mullen, Jr~
Hearing Transcript of September 26, I991
Appl. No. 4050 RICHARD MULLEN, JR.
The Hearing Op~ned at 8:14 p.m.
The Chairman read the legal notice for the record and application
before receiving testimony.
I have a copy of survey done by Peconic Surveyors PoC. most recent
date is August 13, 1991 indicating the front area of this building
which was the nature of those two.last decisions and the concrete
slab that were installed within the grass area adjacent to state
road 25. I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating
this and surrounding properties in the area. Would Mr., Bressler
like to heard concerning this application? Nice to see you sir,
how are you?
MR. BRESSLER: I'd like to speak in favor of the application~
ERic'J. Bressler of. Wickham~ Wickha~.~.& Bre~sler, P~C~, Main Road,
Mattituck 11952. tf it would please the B~ard~ the technical
question tonight is as stated by the Chairman in the legal notice. ~
However, the real question before the Board is whether or not this
Board is going to permit Mr. Mullen to have competitive equality
~th similar ~n the area and consequently, whether or not Mr.
Muilen is going to have a fair chance to survive in the business
context. I think that while we can address the technical aspects
of the question, the real questions are as put and that is because
the business that Mutlen is in, a~tomobile sales, is a rather
peculiar type business. As the Board is probably aware~ much
of the activity comes as a result of advertising~ rather looks~
if you will, is key to what the public sees on the lot in front of
the showroom and whether or not people are intrigued e~ough basically,
to go to this business, go on the property and try to make a deal
with Mr. Mullen. What he is asking for tonight is no more or no
less than every other dealership up and down the North Fork has
and that is an opportunity to display his wares both i~ the showroom
and in front of the showroom° I have for the Board's consideration
a series of photographs taken of both Mro Mullen's place of business
and other places of business which I would like to lay before the
Board. The first photograph shows a frontal view looking across
Route 25 of Mr. Mullen's business as presently exists. The Board
will note that there are two pads in front of the showroom which
are occupied by vehicles. Immediately behind is the showroom itself
and on careful examination, it can be seen that there is a vehicle
within the showroom but it is equally obvious from even a quick look
at the picture, those vehicles within the windows of the showroom
are ~ot readily visible to passersby. The next ~hotograph is a ~
· Page 15 - Appl. No. 4050
Richard Mullen, Jr.
Nearing Transcript of September 26, 1991
MR. BRESSLER: Continued
a photograph~t'aken of the Wells automobile dealership in Peconic,
also on the Main Road. This is a picture taken looking east
coward the dealership and down the Main Road. The Board will please
note in this photograph that the Wells dealership also has a showroom
with large windows and vehicles' are~ housed, in.side, the showroom.
In addition, 'the Well~ dealership has display vehicles on what
appears to be a concrete apron between t~ curbed e. dge of the Main
Road and the building. The Board will further note that these
display vehicles appear to be roughly, the same distance from the
actual roadway as Ur. Mullen's. The third photograph is one of
what is now the Garsten or one branch of the Gars~en Kinney dealer-
ship, what was formerly the Kinney dealership on the Main Road and that
would be what is now the easterly of the combined dealership. Again,
the Board will note th.at there is a showroom with windows and vehicles
inside, but there are also display vehicles parked out on the apron
rather closer to the road than either Mr. Mullen's or Mr. Wells'
vehicles. The next photograph is one Of P~conic Bay Motors, also
on the Main Road in Riverhead and the Board will note'the usual,
the window showroom with vehicles inside, although they are readily
ascertainable from the photograph and a series of pads with vehicles
i~ the front grassy area between the building an.d the Main Road.
Again, the distances are not materially different from those~of
Mr. Mullen's. The next photograph is one of Herb Obser Motors
on Rt. 58 in Riverhead looking from across the street. The
building contains large showroom w~indows with vehicles inside. In
addition, in the grassy area between the parking area which Mr.
Obser is fortunate enough to have, the Board will note that there
are two vehicles parked in that grassy area, again much closer to
the main highway than Mr. Mullen's vehicles. Riverhead Dodge appears
in the next photograph which consists of a large brick building with
showroom windows and display vehicles parked in a line 'in front of
that building, again very, very close to the Main Road and the
picture following that is the Nissan dealership in Riverhead with
its new banner still out there, with vehicles again parked out in
front, close to the highway. The last two photographs are of
Riverhead Motors and the other branch of the Kinney Garsten
conglomerate, if you will, and the ~iverhead Motors photograph,
shows that there is a large building and there are showroom windows
in it and there are a series of display cars oarked out in front
next to the Main Road, one of them up on some sort of metal con-
traption, and a whole series of them p~arked virtually overlapping
the sidewalk on the highway. The Garsten photograph shows a large
building with sh6wroom windows again and vehicles parked for display
ou~ in front. Certainly no surprises there to any one of the members
of the Board who has traveled up and down the Main Road. I think
Page 16 - Appl. No. 4050
Richard Mullen, Jr.
Hearing Transcript of September 26, 1991
MR. BRESSLER: continued
it is fair to s~y as a result of this, that automobile dealerships
have both interior space for display of their wares, as well as
exterior pads to highlight one or two, or in some cases, more
vehicles to induce customers to come in for a sale~ Thus, Mr.
Mullen's request in the first instance, is completely consistent
with the normal course of business in the area. Now, getting back
to the technical aspect of this particular application, we are
dealing with a prior determination of this Board which contain the
proviso regarding the vehicles and the building line. I don~t believe
that it was the intention of this Board to create a situation where
Mr. Mullen would be placed at a competitive disadvantage. Mr. Mullen
has been at his location for approximately 65 years. During that
period of time he has served the Town of Southold and he has done
so using the set up that has been demonstrated to the Board as is
common to all dealerships, although before this application, ! think
it is the previous application, it was fair to say that he had a
somewhat smaller, you might even say tiny interior display~ After
the last application he got something more akin to what the other
dealers have, although it is still substantially smaller than any
other dealers showroom. Prior to both applications he had exterior
display and what he is looking for now are display pads for two
vehicles. As I stated, I don't believe that it was the intention
or the focus of this Board on that type of padded display that was
of concern.
CHAIRMAN: Can I ask you a question Mr. Bressler? We also have
taken pictures. The Main Road being a fairly busy road I did not
measure from the double yellow line or in this particular case
what line is out there. To the edge of the property, it doesn't
necessarily indicate the width of the main state road 25 at that
point but the survey clearly indicates that the curbing which is
in front of the building and is basically almost the property line,
and therefore the asphalt which is in front of that curbing, is
possibly a portion of the main state road.
MR. BRESSLER: There is no doubt about that. That asphalt area
now in good condition is technically part of the state right-of-way,
although I don't believe motorists treat it as such.
CHAIRMAN: For the record, when this decision was rendered back
in '87, as you know, it is sometimes di.fficult to visualize what
an addition is going to look like. The reason for that particular
decision and I'm not speaking for the Board, I'm speaking only for
the record~ myself~ so as not to impede any type of view at the
stop sign area in looking to the east and therefore, that was my
main concern. In dealing with the application now and looking at
it I notice that since you have that apron in front and you stop
you can ~roceed and get a fairly good view to the east before pro-
ceeding in an easterly or westerly direction and that is of main
concern to this Board in dealing with this application. That is
Page 17 Appl. No. 4050
Richard Mullen, JR.
Hearing Transcript of September 26, 1991
CHAIRMAN: continued
my main concer~rat this point. I do concur with you that pads
don't have a negative effect upon that type of situation regard-
less of what they do or don't do for the dealership. I see that they
certainly do add an incenti,ve from a business point of view but that
is my main concern. Let's see what the concern of the rest of the
Board is.
MR. BRESSLER: Having stolen my thunder, I suppose there is not
much else forme to say. What I was going to say was it was my
belief that that was the concern of the Board and that the photo-
graphs clearly showed Mr. Chairman what you have just indicated
and that it is clear from a view of the site and the photographs
that that proble~ is not present because of the unusual configuration
of the M~ain R. oad. That's ~asically the thrust of our application
and that was Mr. Mullen's understanding and we thought it was the
Board's and now know that ~t was at least yours MR. Chairman. If
any of the other Board members have a concern other than that or
have a lingering concern that there ~s a traffic problem, I don't
believe there is based on simple line of sight measurement, we
would be happy to address it. I think you summarized the position.
Mr. Mullen is here to answer any questions.
CHAIRMAN: Anybody else have any questions? tf we so Relieve that
condition we would probably still put on a restriction that the
vehicles to be displayed be unplated so as not to cause a problem
with any other organizations within this town in reference to when
I refer ~o other agencies within the Town. We know that the purpose
of the pads are to display vehicles that are for sale and vehicles
that are generally in good condition and therefore, if not new,
at best. So mainly, that probably would be a good way of dealing
with the whole situation so as 'not to cause a problem with other
agencies so they understand that they are new vehicles for sale,
they are not anybody elses vehicles placed up there for the purpose
of servicing or anything of that nature.
MR. BRESSLER: If it gets to that point Mr. Chairman I don't think
I'll be here representing.
CHAIRMAN: We thank you very much. Is there anybody else who would
like to speak in favor of this application, anybody like to speak
'against the application. Seeing no hands, I'll make a motion closing
the hearing and reserving decision until later.
ALL IN FAVOR: AYE.
Page 18 -Appl. Noo 4055
Arthur Truckenbrodt
Hearing Transcript of September 26, 1991
Appl. No. 4055' ARTHUR TRUCKENBRODT
The Hearing opened at 8:33 p.mo
The Chairman read the legal notice for the record and
application before receiving testimony.
CHAIRMAN: I have a copy of a survey ~ndicating this long traveled
road leading almost to Long Island Sound and I have a copy of the
Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in
the area. This survey was produced by Roderick VanTuylP.Co, dated
April 42 1972o The amended date was June 3, 1991. The nature of
the application is a shed placed, which appears to be in the side
yard area, an addition to the rear of the dwelling which again
could be construed to be a different place other than the rear,
probably the side yard which is approximately 17' from, we will say,
the west side of the property. Would you like to be heard~ noted
counselor sir?
MR. BOYD: Thank you, that's a very nice introduction. Good evening
Mro Chairman~ members of the Board. You have in front of you the
application in this particular case° I have no photographs, I
6ave no commercial interest to stand up for, except for the client
who finds it necessary to increase not only the sides of his house,
but also the storage area. Those of you who have been out there to
see this particular location understand that ~opo~a~hiC~lly speaking,
it is most unusual with a hugh rock across the way with the road
cutting through the middle of the property, etc. I think he was
pretty well forced into the locations that he has used there.
Obviously, the additions are in place. That's something I can't
speak to one way or another. He didn't come to me at that time~
he came to me only after the additions were started and put up.
CHAIRMAN: What is the approximate size of the deck. Do you know
offhand?
MR. BOYD: The deck. No, I don't. That goes back to prior time.
CHAIRMAN: I meant the addition. I apologize.
MR. BOYD: 15 by 15.
CHAIRMAN: The approximate size of the shed..
MR. BOYD: I think 18 by 12, if I'm not mistaken. ~ think that
is in the application Mr. Chairman.
Page 19 - Appl. No.4055
~Arthur Truckenbrodt~
Hearing Transcript of September 26, 1991
CHAIRMAN: I parked about two houses up and walked down when
I was there. By the time I got down there it was raining~and
everything was mush. I'll be~honest with you. We won't go into that.
MR. BOYD: There has been a problem there which I understand from
my client has been rectified. There has been quite a number of
loads of blend put into the road and compacted. The problem seemed
to have arisen from a neighbor who had a swimming pool malfunction
of some sort and in order to get to the leak in the pool the con-
tractor drained the pool out and the draining went onto the road,
and washed some gullies in what had been rather hard packed stuff.
You came out there to do your inspection and it may have been the
interim period when the first patch was in with soft material but
since then the pool contractor has come back and has supplied several
truckloads of good hard stuff which has compacted. This is what
I hear on information. I have not been there but my client advised
me of that early this week when he spoke to me on the telephone.
CHAIRMAN: I asked Mr. Dinizio, who I believe was the last person
there and he did concur w~th what your opinion ~ ~s at this point.
Is that correct?
MEMBER DINIZIO~ Yes, it is in good shape.
CHAIRMAN: We will see what develops with the hearing. We may
call you back up and we thank you for coming in. Is there anybody
else who would like to speak in favor of the application, anybody
like to speak against the applica%ion? Can you tell me what
facilities are in the shed. ts ~here electricity in the shed?
~R~ BOYD: I don't know. I've been out there only once. When I
was there the door to the shed was open. I saw a lawnmower in
there and the usual stuff you would find in a shed. There is a
little house in front which is simply a cover over a pump. I didn't
see anything in the shed that was of any unusual nature at all.
Whether there is an electric light running to it or not, I just
can!t tell you°
CHAIRMAN: Any comment from anyone concerned?
MEMBER VILLA: I was just concerned. You go on these and you find
that the thing was already built. How do we get to this point all
the time. When the applications come to this Board~ many times a
deck is built or the addition is'buil~ already. It doesn't make
sense.
Page 20 - Appl. No. 4055
Arthur Truckenbrodt
Hearing Transcript of September 26, 1991
CHAIRMAN: I really can't answer that.
BOARD ASSISTANT L. KOWALSKI: :There is a violation on the pro-
perty.
CHAIRMAN: There is a violation on the property. The applicant
is seeking to rectify tha~ violation by the nature of this
application, I assume.
MEMBER: It seems you got the cart before the horse°
BOARD ASSISTANT L, KOWALSKI: When was it built?
CHAIRMAN: Do we have any idea when it was built.
MR. BOYD: It was begun this Spring some time. I don't know
exactly when the violation notice was put on it., I agree it is
the cart before the horse. I apologize for it but I wasn't there.
I had nothing to do with that aspect. Certainly if he came to
me I would have suggested it be done the other way around. Again,
if clients always follow things I told them, I would be out of
business pretty soon.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you again. Hearing no further comment, I make
a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision until later.
ALL IN FAVOR: AYE.
Theresa R
(Prepared from tape recording)