HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-08/15/1991 HEARING TRANSCRIPT OF HEARINGS
~OUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING OF
THURSDAY, AUGUST 15, 1991
Board Members Present: Chairman Gerard P. Goehringer and
Members: Dinizio, Doyen, Grigonis and Villa
Linda Kowalski, Z.B.A. Secretary and appreximately 25 persons
in the audience.
Appl. No.: 4043
Applicant(s).: John H. & Gayle Birkmier
Location of Property: 48850 Main Road, Southold, NY
County Tax Map No.: 1000-70-7-10
The Chairman .opened the hearing at 7:30 pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of the survey produced by
Roderick Van Tuyl and Son dated August 17, 1972 indicating a
rather large two and a half story frame' home, an existing
older home with a barn to the rear of the property and the
property is located on the Main Road in Southold. And I have
a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and
surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody who
would like to be heard? Are the Birkmiers here? How do you
do. Could I ask either one of you to use the mike if you
wouldn't mind. How do you do?
MS BIRKMIER: How are you?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Good thank you. Is there anything you
would like to state for the record before I ask you some
questions?
MS BIRKMIER: I don't think so.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. I noticed thatyou have a
parking plan in front of the barn that is what you are
anticipating in reference to parking the cars for the bed
and breakfast use, is that correct?
MS BIRKi~IER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And what portion of the house are you
actually going to be using, I know that...
MS BIP/4MIER: The central portion has two bedrooms.
Page 2 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - John H and Gayle Birkmier
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay~ upstairs?
MS BIRKMIER: Yes. At the head of the stairs as you come up
to the second floor.
CHAIRM3~N GOE~tRINGER: Okay. I have to apologize to you, this
has been a~very busy summer and I have not gotten a chance to
get over to the house and I know that at least one Board
Member~has been in. I would hope that your timeliness is not
such that you couldn't wait another couple weeks until we
could re-schedule the hearing till we could all look at it.
MS BIRKMIER: I'm working real hard to get it going. We're
still working on the rooms.
CHAIP/~AN GOEHR!NGER: The next hearing is. scheduled for the
latter part of September, I'd like to make an appointment
with you tonight if i could or ....
MS BIRKMIER: The latter part of September?
cHAIRMAN GOE~IRINGER: Well that's when ~we would close the
hearing.
MS BIRKMIER: I see.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I would like to make an appointment
with you on September 21st which I believe is a Saturday
about 10:00 am and we'll all come over and go through the
place and we'll go through everything and discuss with you if
that's not a particular problem.
MS BIRKMIER: A decision would be made at that point?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It would be made at the 29th. We'll
make it for you because we're holding it off at that
particular point and let you know exactly what the story is.
MS BIRKMIER: Okay. May I ask why it would have to be held
off?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well only because I didn't get a chance
to come over and look at it nor did my Board Members look at
i~ other than Jim Dinizio who had looked at it some time ago
and normally in almost every situation we have gone to the
premises as I said because of the problems with the summer
and vacations and all the rest of it I have not gotten a
chance to get over and I would normally not just drop in on
you and say I would like to look at it. We would normally
make... If for any reason I can make it over any earlier
Page 3 - August 15, t991
Public Hearing - John H & Gayle Birkmier
Southold Z.B.A.
~CHAIRMAN, cont'd: I'll give you a call or we can get
together any earlier.
MS BIRKMIER: That would be fi~e.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. After Labor Day and I'll
definitely give you a call, but right now we'll leave it for
the 21st of September, if it's atright with you.
MS BIRKMIER: Okay.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody else would like to
speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak
against the application? Hearing no further comment I'll
make a motion recessing the hearing to the next regularly
scheduled meeting.
All in Favor - AYE.
Appl. No.: 4044
Applicant(s): William, Aileen and John Parrott
Location of Property: 2435 Cedar Lane, East Marion, NY
CoUnty Tax Map No.: 1000-37-4-9
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:38 pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Just state you name for the record
please.
MR PARROTT: John Parrott.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How do you do?
MR PARROTT: Good.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What canI, what will you state for us
for the record? Do you have anything you would like to say?
MR PARROTT: Well I have an updated survey, I've got some new
numbers.
CHAIRMAN GOE~RINGER: Wonderful. Than~ you.
MR pARROTT: I believe you asked me for two originals. I had
the numbers, I asked Van Tuyl to give me the lot coverage.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So total lot is 31% is that coverage
correct?
Page 4 - August 15r 1991
Public Hearing - William, Aileen and John Parrott
Southold Z.B.A.
MR PARROTT: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. The setback is exactly forty
feet from the inside of the bulkhead to the closest point of
the deck, is that correct?
MR PARROTT: Yes.
CHAIRMAN' GOEHRINGER: Is there ever any intention that this
deck will be enclosed in any way?
MR PARROTT: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It is also our suggestion that since
you have limited your area of access to the rear yard area,
specifically on the south side, that our decision would be
limiting to the fact that, that seven and a half feet shall
remain open and may have to be cut back if for any rest you
had to get equipment in. We usually grant a minimum of eight
feet. The Board may go with eight feet, you might have to
cut the deck back six or eight inches to show it in exact
eight feet. Our concern is definitely'getting access to the
rear yard area.
MR PARROTT: The deck, the wooden deck is seven and a half
feet, the other one, the flagstone deck that was there
fifteen or twenty years ago at that is what we would have to
cut back, but if that's what you want us to dOo
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, no, well that's at ground level
right?
MR PARROTT: No. That's included in the lot coverage, that's
raised up about twenty inches~ eighteen inches off the
ground.
CHAIRMAN GOE~tRINGER: Okay. I didn't remember that and I
apologize, I looked at this sometime ago. I have looked at
your deck, but I didn't remember, maybe I went around the
other side although I don't think, can you gain access from
the other side?
MR PARROTT: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You can. That's probably the side I
went on. Okay. Does anybody else have any questions of this
gentleman? Jim, Bob? Is there anything else you want to add
to the record.
MR PARROTT: No, I think all the questions on the forms.
Page 5 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - William, Aileen and John Parrott
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRbiAN GOEHRINGER: The flagstone deck is elevated about
eighteen inches, how is it elevated, in by railroad ties or?
MR PARROTT: No, it's concrete, it's a concrete thing with
flagstone set on top of it.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, and how close would you say that
is to the property line?
MR PARROTT: I think that's the seven and a half feet, I
believe that I asked Van Tuyl, he gave me these numbers over
the phone, that were updated yesterday. I believe that's
seven and a half fee~.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright. So basically the only problem
that we have is approximately slx inches on that particular
side.
MR PARROTT: I believe the previous owner, we bought the
house about 12 years ago, I believe he bought an extra piece
of land from the northerly neighbor ~o try and give a little
more space there.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. I thank you very much.
MR PARROTT: Thank yon.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody else who would like to
speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak
against the application? Questions from Board Members?
Hearing no further questions, I make a motion closing the
hearing reserving decision until later.
All in Favor - AYE.
Appl. No.: 4045
Applicant(s): Gloria Lowery
Location of Property: 650 Oak Ave, $outhold, NY
County Tax Map No.: 1000-77-1-2
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:45 pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEITRINGER: I have a copy of a survey not
indicating the but indicating the approximate placement of
the house which is approximately 42 feet from Oak Avenue and
will discuss the size of the deck with applicant in a moment.
And I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating
this and surround properties in the area. Is there somebody
that would like to be heard? Hello, Mr. Fitzgerald, how are
Page 6 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Gloria Lowery
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN, cont,d: you?
MR FITZGERALD: Jim Fitzgerald, for Mrs. Lowery. To answer
your questions.
CHAIRMAN GOEHI~INGER: The deck comes out about 12 feet from
the house or 157
MR FITZGERALD: 12.
CHAIRMAN GoEHRINGER: 12, okay. How close are we to the
actual high water make at that point~ or to the end of the
property?
MR FITZGERALD: The high water is at the base of the bulkhead
and that's, that would be 63.6 from the steps of the deck, to
the seaward face of the bulkhead.
CHAIRMAN GOE~tRINGER: Okay, the steps of the deck protruded
out from the bulkhead or are they.
MR FITZGERALD: The steps of the deck will be on the seaward
side of the deck.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How far would they stick out from the
deck, do you know?
MR FITZGERALD: 3 feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. And you said the figure was how
much sir 62?
MR FITZGERALD: To the bulkhead?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes.
MR FITZGERALD: 63 feet 6 inches.
CHAIRMAN GOEMRINGER: We noticed in the pictures that the
deck is that. Has there been anymore work on it?
MR FITZGERALD: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there any intention to enclose the
deck in any way?
MR FITZGERALD: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Does anybody have any questions
about this? No, I guess not. We thank you sir. Is there
Page 7 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Gloria Lowery
Southotd Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN, cont'd: anybody else who would like to speak in
favor of this application? Anybody like to speak against the
application? Seeing no hands, I'll make a motion closing the
hearing reserving decision until later.
All in Favor - AYE.
Appl. No.: 4046
Applicant(s): Mr & Mrs Thomas M McKeon
Location of Property: 415 Fisherman's Beach, Cutchogue, NY
County Tax Map No.: 1000-111-1-36
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:48 pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a sketch of the survey produced
by Edward John Schmitz Jr. who is a registered architect
indicating these specific changes to this particular piece of
property that I requested by this applicant and I have a copy
of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding
properties in the area. Mr. Olsen, would like you to be
heard?
MR OLSEN: Good evening, my name is Gary Olsen, I'm an
attorney having my offices at the Main Road in Cutchogue and
I'm representing the applicants Thomas McKeon and his wife
Maryanne McKeon. The applicants are the owners of the parcel
of property located at Fisherman's Beach in Cutchogue which
is designated as lot number 7 on a map entitled Map of
Peconic Bay Properties, Fisherman's Beach lots. Which map
was filed in the Office of the Clerk of the County of Suffolk
on April 15, 1931 as map number 786. The applicants have
been the owners of this lot since May 9, -1977, having
purchased same from William and Elizabeth Halsey. Presently
existing on the proper~y !s a one story framed house with a
sun deck. The subject premises with the existing improvement
is shown on a survey prepared by Young and Young dated June
7, 1977 which survey was prepared for the applicants and I'd
like to submit a copy of that survey for your records as
exhibit 1.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Fine. Thank you sir.
MR OLSEN: The lots in Fisherman's Beach area are non-
conforming lots by todays standards. And I'm submitting also
herewith an exhibit number 2 which is Suffolk County Tax Map
which shows the subject premises and the surrounding area and
I've highlighted our particular parcel with red ink. On June
1, 1977 the Southold Town Building Department issued a pre-
existing certificate of occupancy for a one family dwelling
Page 8 - August 15, 1991 -~.
Public Hearing - Mr and Mrs Thomas McKeon
Scuthold Z.B.A.
MR OLSEN, cont'd: which is number Z7688, which certificate
was issued to the applicants seller William D. Halsey and his
wife. And i submit a copy of the pre-existing c/o as exhibit
number 3. The applicants are ~eeking to convert what is
basically a seasonal home which presently contains 1398
square feet into a year-round residence. They have retained
the services of an architect John Schmitz of 399 Conference
Street in Farmingdale who has proposed adding an addition to
the existing residence, a porch on the north Side of the
house and a garage also on the north side which would be
connected with a breezeway~ The proposed additions would
result in a lot coverage percentage of 29.3%. Under Article
24 Section 100-244B the proposed construction would exceed
the permitted lot coverage area which is permitted and
limited to 20%. Thus necessitating this variance application°
The existing lot area is 12,519o15 square, feet. The existing
house contains 1398 square feet together with an existing
deck of 573 feet for a total of 1971 square feet and a
percentage of the present lot coverage is 15.7%. Now as I
indicated the McKeons are planning on using this property for
a year-round residential purposes and because of that it also
~very important for them, not only to make the house bigger~
but to have a garage and the plans that the architect have
included a garage on the north side of the property which
would be connected by a breezeway and I have been advised
that the property at one time~ in fact did have a detached
garage on the northeast to the end of the I guess that's tha
northwesterly end of the property which is evidence by a
remaining concrete slab and a dilapidated foundation if you
go down there you can see there what's left of that. I've
submitted as part of my various papers and computations of
the percentage of lot coverage as the premises presently
exists and as the applicant proposes with the planned
improvements. A separate calculation page also calculates
the present and proposed lot coverage percentages to the high
water mark as shown on that Young and Young survey of June 7,
1977. And I would like to submit a copy of the calculations
as exhibit 4~ so just so you understand that the calculations
calculate the percentage presently covered and what we intend
to do with the lot as shown on the filed map and then on the
next page the percentage of coverage areas up to the high
water mark as shown on the Young and Young survey back in
1977 and if you look at that ....
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: They own to the high water mark, Mr.
Olsen?
MR OLSEN: Excuse me?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: They own to the high water mark?
Page - August 15, 1991 9
Public Hearing - Mr & Mrs Thomas McKeon
Southold Z.B.A.
MR OLSEN: Yeah. And the percentage that would be covered if
you go ~o the high water mark in 77 for the complete project
would be 26% of the proper~y whereas if we just took the
filed lot number area, it would be 29.3, se I would like to
submit those calculations as my exhibit number 4.
CHAIP/~AN GOEHRINGER: Can I just ask you, the 12,519.15 is
based upon the filed map lot or the entire lot?
MR OLSEN: The filed map.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Thank you. Go ahead.
MR OLSEN: The present residence contains a kitchen/dining
area, a living room, three bedrooms of which two are very
small and one bath. The proposed alterations would provide
for a larger kitchen/dining area, a living room, four
bedrooms two of which would be downstairs and two upstairs,
three baths and a laundry room. The applicants have four
grown children and are seeking to rebuild a home that would
be suitable not only for a comfortable year-round living but
would also be a suitable place ue accommodate their children
when they come to visit and their spouses and someday their
grandchildren. The nature of this application is a quality
of type living application. Present this evening is the
architect John Sckmitz who will fill you in further detail as
to the nature of the improvements which the applicants seek
to make and I think maybe at this time if you don't mind I'll
have John come forward and he can indicate to you what he has
designed, why he's designed it and answer any questions that
you may have concerning the design.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sure. Thank you. How do you do? If
you want to use that stand over there John you are welcome to
put it on that or if you feel you can hold it.
MR SCHMITZ: What I thought I'd do is explain some o~ these
things, point to the model and then I'll bring it up for you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MR SCHMITZ: So can use it. The existing house as we've said
is a one story house. Our addition is going landward from
the sea. We're not extending out an~-wheres. What we've
basically done is add this bulk of the house here to the
north of the existing house. This will give us suitable space
to put a all new foundations and structural systems ~o
support a two story section on the house ~nd at the same time
not disturb any of the existing structure that exists that
holds the one story section. We are going to reconfigure the
Page 10 - August 15~ 1991
Public Hearing- Mr and Mrs Thomas McKeon
Southold Z.B.A.
MR SCHMITZ~ cont'd: roof line in the center here and go a
little hat over this section other than that the existing
roof lines of the house are relatively undisturbed in terms
of load distribution and what have you. we've also arranged
for a garage up here connected by an open lattice breezeway
that will hook the two of them together. The lot that this
is on, this base right here is the size of a filed lot
indicated by this dotted line right here. The end line that
you see as a loose wave is the high water mark that exists in
that matter. So if you do look at this model this is all
into scale, you'll get a good idea as to how it sits on the
lot and where it sits in relation to the set backs from the
corners. I have also brought with me tonight a set of plans
which indicate the site plant the layout of the garage and
the breezeway as well as the two floor plans and all of the
elevations of the house and I would like to mark these as an
exhibit.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You say the garage is 500 square feet.
How big is that?
MR SCHMITZ: It's 20 X 25. Do you wan~ to mark this as an
exhibit?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sure. We'll just take it. We'll say
that we received it from you.
MR SCHMITZ: if you have any other questions regarding the
construction?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I was wondering what thepurpose of the
breezeway is other than esthetics.
MR SCHMITZ: We were told by the Building Department in my
discussions with Mr. Lessard that a detached garage is not
allowed in this zone, it must be attached to the house and
therefore one of the methods of attaching, he suggested to
be, a covered through breezeway, so that is the reason we
installed that in there.
CHAIRMAN GOEHR!NGER: Was there ever any thought about
actually attaching the garage to the .front of the house in
a~yway or building it into the front of the house?
MR SCHMITZ: We had looked at that in terms of on to
the house, howeverr due to the set backs of the lets, its
existing width, hooking the garage onto the house became
impractical in terms of obscuring light and entry into the
house on that level. We have done our best with the hook-up
to give it an open look on the connection with lattice~ low
Page 11 August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Mr & Mrs Thomas McKeon
Southold Z.B.A.
MR SCHMITZ, cont'd: wall, with an open top, so that you will
still maintain breeze and views though that walkway as you
move.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And how close is the house on the
westerly side of the property, at present?
MI{ SCPiMITZ: I believe it's approximately ten feet off the
line, five feet in that range.
CHAIRMAN GOEPSqINGER: Are you anticipating it any closer than
that at this point?
MR SCHMITZ: No. Our, is this in construction with no closer
than already exists on either side of the lot.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Because the other side you are only 1.8
feet right?
MR SCPE~ITZ: Right, which is an existing condition.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We will take a look at the lot coverage
based upon what Mr. Olsen has given us and we'll do the best
we can. In situations like this, uo be perfectly honest with
you, I'd rather see a two stage situation and that is the,
basically the consuruction of the house first and then the
construction of the garage after, but we'll see what we can
do. Thank you. Is there anything else you would like to add
Mr. Olsen?
MR OLSEN: Yes. When I submitted my application to you, I
did also at that time submit a sketch prepared by John
Schmitz showing the existing residence plus the proposed
additions including the breezeway and the garage and I'd like
to submit another copy of that and call it exhibit 4A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Thank you.
MR OLSEN: This is a, this is not a use variance, this is an
area variance, but I do submit that, if the Board did not
grant the application that there would be an economic loss
and hardship to my client and I've asked Andrew Stype an
appraiser from Mattituck to come and make a presentation also
so at this time I would like to have Mr. Stype come forward.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Certainly.
MR STYPE: Hi, I'm Andy Stype from Stype Realty. We have
offices on the Main Road in Mattituck. I also am a licensed
real estate appraiser and have been since 1978 and I had
Page 12 - August 15~ 1991
Public Hearing - Mr & Mrs Thomas M McKeon
Southold Z.B.A.
MR STYPE, cont'd: inspected the property back on August the
13th, I had found the house was approximately 1300 square
feet of living space, which is pretty much smaller than an
average size house. If the owher is not granted to have this
variance he would loose about 1100 square feet of living
area. I have calculated that if he looses almost 1100 square
feet of area that he would loose almost $90,000 in value. I
had taken these vatues~ value cost figures from the Marshall-
Swift book and it states that it's about $80 for every square
foot you're to place that part. I have also calculations
here if you would like to look at them.
CHAIRM3uN GOE~IRINGER: I don't think it's necessary. Does
anybody want to look at them. I don't think it's necessary.
We know your credentials sir.
MR STYPE: I'll give you a copy.
CHAIRMAN ~OEHRINGER: Thank you very much.
MR OLSEN: If we could let just the record show that Mr.
Stype has made part of the record the result of his
calculations on the economic lose.
CHA!RMAI~ GOEHRINGER: Sure.
MR OLSEN: Due to the fact that this is a water front piece
of property, the new additions to the home will be on
northerly side of the property, that is the non waterfront
side and the applicants have through their architect obtained
a waiver from the Southold Town Trustees on July. 12, 1991 for
the intended alterations and I'm submitting a copy of the
Board of Trustees letter granting a waiver which I submit as
exhibit number 5.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MR OLSEN: Low and behold will meet the present
zoning code requirements and no side yard height or front
yard variances will be necessary. The proposed alterations
will meet the code requirements of a 35 foot front set back
and the side yards will continue the present side yards of
the existing structure. The proposed garage of 20 X 25 feet
will be connected with a breezeway to the dwelling and was
explaining the reason for the breezeway as so that it
technically becomes part of the main structure and we don't
need a variance to have an accessory building in the front
yard. They definitely do want a garage for purposes of
· storing vehicles and boats and so on and yard equipment and I
would hope that the application is favorably looked at that
Page 13 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Mr & Mrs Thomas M McKeon
Southold Z.B.A.
FLR OLSEN, cont'd: it consider the entire project a~ this
point, because I think it's their intention to do it all at
once rather than piece meal. It is respectfully submitted
that the intent of improvements and alterations will result
in an increase in value to the other properties in the
neighborhood. Fisherman's Beach area like so many other
areas in the township was once primarily used for seasonal
summer use is now becoming a prime area for year-round use.
There are a number of homes in the area that were once
seasonal homes and now are attractively maintained year-round
residences. My research has revealed that the Zoning Board
of Appeals has in fact granted excessive lot coverage
variances on two occasions in the Fisherman's Beach area.
One for Anthony Robastelli, this Tax Map Number is 1000-111-
1-lots 18 & 19. And that was granted on March 2, 1988,
Appeal Number 3677 and I'm submitting a copy of the action of
the Zoning Board in that matter as exhibit number 6.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you sir.
5IR OLSEN: The other instance was an aDplication of Frank and
Sandra Curran owners of Tax Lot number 1000-111-1-16, Appeal
Number 3768 who also obtained a lot coverage variance and a
copy of the Zoning Board of Appeals decision in that case is
submitted as exhibit number 7. I might point out the Curran
property which is the subject of the last mentioned variance
is diagonally across the street from the McKeons' property
and the lot coverage variance that was approved there was for
a coverage of 25.5%. I'm also submitting here with
photographs of the subject property along with photos of
houses across the street on the north side of the McKeon
property and other nearby parcels for purposes of showing the
character of the neighborhood. I would request that said
photos be marked as exhibit number 8. Also if you drive up
and down the road there, you see that there are all kinds of
houses really nice year-round houses and there are some
houses that are very close to the road. The proposed
alterations to the main par~ of the house, the McKeon houser
the closest part of the house itself, the house proper, would
be set back 82 feet from the road. Of course the garage
would be about 35 feet back, but the house itself would be
set way back about 85 or 82 feet south of the road itself.
In any event I'll submit these photos.
CHAIRMAN GOE~IRINGER: Thank you sir.
MR OLSEN: I respectfully submit that the applicants do have
a practical difficulty in connection with this property. And
that the following matter should be considered by the Board
in connection with this application. One its respectfully
Page 14 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Mr & Mrs Thomas M McKeon
Southold Z.B~A.
MR OLSEN, cont'd: submitted that the variance being sought
is minimal in character, that as there's only a 9% additional
lot coverage variance from the permitted 20% under the code.
Number twos the effect if the 9ariance is allowed would not
increase the population density, nor would it have any effect
on available governmental facilities. Number three, there
will be no substantial change produced in the character of
the neighborhood~ nor any substantial detriment to the
property and in fact the variance would produce advantageous
results to the adjoining properties, in that, what is now a
seasonal type home would be greatly increased in value by the
improvements. And thus in turn improving the value of other
properties in the neighborhood. Due to the fact that this is
a non-conforming lot which was created back in 1931, it's not
feasible for the applicant to build suitable year-round
comfortable living accommodations for his~ family other than
pursuing this variance application. It is thus respectfully
submitted that the interest of justice would be served by
allowing of the variance and there are practical difficulties
of the applicant in carrying out the strict letter of todays
regulations, which the Board has power ~o vary and modify
pursuant to Article 28 Section 100-271 of the zoning code.
The applicants are also present so if the Board has any
questions that they would like to ask of the McKeons~
CHAIrmAN GOEHRINGER: No. I just want to ask the architect
another question. Thank you Mr. Olsen. Mr. Schmitzr what
would be approximate height from ground level or grade to the
ridge on this side? Just an estimate.
MR SCHMITZ: Approximately 27 feet, perhaps it's 25 to 27 in
that range.
CHAIRi~AN GOEHRINGER: And what would be the approximate
height of the garage to the ridge?
MR SCHMITZ: It's eight foot at ~he sill height, I believe
it's~ it would have to be about 15 or 16 feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEH1RINGER: The only thing I wanted to mention for
the record is that on that side that you have 1.8 feet, you
are actually asking us to increase a non-conformity in
reference to height which is a difficult thing for.us to deal
with. And I'll be honest with you, we never granted it
before since I've been on the Board which is eleven years,
but we'll see what we can do. Okay. Thank you very much.
Do you have any questions?
MEMBER DINIZlO: Yeah~ I do.
Page 15 August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Mr & Mrs Thomas M McKeon
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, wait a minute we have.°.
MR OLSEN: Mr. Chairman, I would just like to make one more
comment and that is, that closing it's respectfully submitted
that there is no legitimate public interest served by not
granting the variance. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Who would you like to ask the question?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Mr Stype.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Oh, Mr. Stype sure.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I just want to make sure I understand this.
You're saying that the value of this property, the property
would be devalued if we do no~ grant this..
MR STYPE: No. Like I'm saying if he's allowed ~o increase
his house size by an extra 1100 square feet, that he would
increase value by almost $90,000. Because, obviously ....
MEMBER DINIZIO: But where is the hardship, as far as us
granting or not granting, how would our no~ granting ~his
application crea~e a monetary hardship on this person now.
MR STYPE: Well the hardship is that if he's no~ allowed to
increase his house by the extra 1100 square feet, that he
would lose almos~ $100,000 in value that is a hardship or is
economic loss. It's obvious especially so if you have a
house that's on any body of water if you increase the size
you really increase the overall value. And in a.house like
this, it is so small, he would have a lot of advantages
definitely. And that's also economic advantages ~oo.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Bob?
MEMBER VILLA: I have a question, Gary on any of this new
constr~ction now is that going to disturb the existing
sanitary system?
MR OLSEN: I believe that they are planning on using the...
MR SCH~4ITZ: ...the existing sanitary system is going to be
located, we've contacted the D.E.C. concerning that matter as
well as the Suffolk County Health Department.
MEMBER VILLA: So it's on the land ward side of tke house?
Page - August 15,
16
1991
Public Hearing - Mr & Mrs Thomas M McKeon
Southold Z.B.A.
MI~ SCHMITZ: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I guess that's itl We thank you Mro
Olsen, we thank you Mr. Scb_mit~ and we that you applicants
for such an extensive presentation. Is there anybody else
who would like to speak in favor of this application? Not
only that thank you Mr. Stype~ I apologize. Is there anybody
that would like to speak against the application. Seeing no
hands I'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving the
decision until later. Thank you.
All in Favor - AYE.
Appl. No.: 4048
Applicant(s): Burt Lewis, Jr.
Location of Property
County Tax Map No~: 1000-126-1-4.1
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:15 pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEH~INGER: We have a survey~produced by Roderick
Van Tuyl P.C. most recent date is 7, 1991 indicating that May
the nature of this existing addition is 20 X 20 off the west
side of the existing building on the Main Road in Mattituck,
some 196.97 feet west of Bray Avenue and is presently used as
a Real Estate office. And I have copy of the Suffolk County
Tax Map indicating 'this and surrounding properties in the
area. Is there somebody ~no would like to be heard? Mr.
Lewis how are you, nice to meet you sir.
MR LEWIS: Yeah, I'm Ronald Lewis, I'm Burt Lewis' son. I
think the application speaks for itself.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The only thing that I woul~ mention is
that is there any appropriate parking plan that you have at
this particular time? There appears to be no designated
parking at this site, is that correct?
MR LEWIS: No. There's existing blacktop. There's no lines
on it.
CHAIRFLAN GOEHRiNGER: There's no lines on it or anything of
that nature. Are you still at this particular time parking
in front of the building and backing out into the Main Road.
MR LEWIS: Noi we never backed into the Main Road. There's
plenty of room there to turn around. There's a lot of room
on the side.
Page 17 August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Burr Lewis, Jr.
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOE~RINGER: Would the cars that were being parked
in front of this building be normally parallel to the
building or would they be diagonally?
MR LEWIS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: They would parallel to the building.
Before you sit down, let's see if there's any other
questions, alright. Does anybody have any other questions
concerning this? Bob? Jim? Serge?
MR LEWIS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Is there anybody else who
would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody
like to speak against the application? No further questions,
I make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until
later.
All in Favor - AYE.
Appl. No.: 4041
Applicant(s): Donald and Jeanne Grim
Location of Property: 11910 Oregon Road, Cutchogue, NY
County Tax Map No.: 1000-83-3- part of 4.4
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:22 pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a site plan from John
Metsker licensed land surveyor. The most recent date if
February 1, 1990 indicating the site plan at this particular
facility and the special exception and I have a copy of the
Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding
properties in the area. Mr. Grim would you like to be heard.
You have nothing to say. Alright, well we always have the
questions. So I'll ask you step up to the mike. I had
recently viewed your facility on a Sunday morning about two
weeks ago, my question is are you limiting this recycling
facility to any specific goods? Will it be, I'm asking a
question and answering at the same time, and stop me if I'm
incorrect. I noticed that there were vehicles that you were
going to dismantle. Is that correct?
MR GRIM: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOE}tRINGER: So there will be steel in salvage of
steel, aluminum or metals and so on and so forth.
MR GRIM: Yes.
Page 18 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Donald and Jeanne Grim
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Will you be dealing with construction
debris?
MR GRIM: Yes. ~
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, and that will be done also in a
prescribed area of this particular yard. Alright. What
other areas would you be dealing with?
MR GRIM: Concrete and asphalt and tree stumps and things
like that.
CHAIIAMAN GOEHRINGER: You would be grinding tree stumps?
Okay. The cars themselves will they be dismantled in any
other way other than by pieces or will they be actually put
through a shredder or?
MR GRIM: No. All we're going to do is save what par~s we
think are good and what parts we can sell and the rest of the
car that we can't sell we'll probably just take them to a
payloader and flatten the roof and put a trailer and send it
some place else. It's not bad enough right now.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Based upon any all affluent or anything
that would be coming out of these vehicles or anything, they
are all going into prescribed drainage pits meaning health
department standards and all this.
MR GRIM: Right. The car would be put inside and all the
fluids would be drained on the side of the building we're
going to make a waste shed so after you drain it you
don't have to go outside with the oil~ there's going to a
funnel going through the wall into a shed which will be an
approvedt I think there made by North Fork Welding, one of
those steel bins and probably be reburned in a waste that
will be already in the garage, so that you only have to
handle it once. It like~ if you have to take it outside,
there's more chance Df spilling so you can set up a simple
way of doing this° Then the car would come outside and be
flattened and put on a trailer.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What would.be the maximum height that
you would stacking carst assuming there wasn't a market for
them?
MR GRIM: I thought like a legal height of going down the
street, 13 feet 6 inches, because if I put them on the
trailer that's what's got to go down the street and you know,
I wouldn't go sky high.
Page 19 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Donald & Jeanne Grim
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Crushed or not crushed it's not
going to exceed 13 feet 6 inches.
MR GRIM: Yeah, I thought that~would be a happy number.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No, that's fine. You want to briefly
just clue us in in reference to the height of the plantings
that you intend to use for screening, I know that you've
discussed this with the Planning Board under the site plan.
MR GRIM: Right, Valerie asked me to go into the street, put
up a stick and if my eyesight hit that stick how high would
it be where I wanted the height to be and as long as I was
over that plain. So like if you're standing in the road you
have berm and you have a ten foot bush and you follow that
plain, and that's higher than what I have. in equipment she
said that was fine.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So the bushes in the front, they're
going to be approximately t0 feet in height eventually?
MR GRIM: Well I think there's a 4 foo~ berm and a 6 foot
tree.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: On top of the berm, okay.
MR GRIM: So that would give me roughly.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay the only other question I have is
in reference to noise,pollution.
MR GRIM: Okay.
CHAIP~MAN GOEHRINGER: What degree since you are not going to
have a shredder which probably would be the greatest in noise
pollution what other noise would be elucidated from this
facility?
MR GRIM: There would be some noise from like a payloader and
a screening plant, but most of them are run by a small like
motor which is equivalent to what all the farmers have up
there for their pumps and I don't see it being a problem.
C~AIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You are not bringing in a crane with a
wrecking ball and anything like that to drop it on cars to...
MR GRIM: No. Everything will be done with the payloader and
you know it's pretty quite, but you know somebody has to run
the payloader.
Page 20 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Donald & Jeanne Grim
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How loud is the grinder for the tree
stumps?
MR GRIM: I don't have any spe~s on that yet, I do have some
specs on the asphalt and concrete crusher and the Planning
Board has the full specs on them~ (TURNED TAPE OVER) These
are the two I'm looking at and..
CHAIP_NLAN GOEPLRINGER: Thank you. Can I have one of these?
MR GRIM: You can have more~as long as I can get them back,
if you could make copies?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Let's assume that the concrete
crusher made more noise than what the neighbors across the
street would say. Avail themselves since, we don't have a
noise ordinance in the town, would you be willing to go back
farther on' the property with that when you were crushing
concrete?
MR GRIM: Sure. Whatever keeps everybody happy.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I should point out for the audience
that this is probably the first legal recycling facility
other than our own landfill thats ever been approved in the
Town of Southold, isn't that correct? I mean the other ones
were pre-existing, is that correct?
MR GRIM: I think so.
'CHAIPd~%N GOEHRINGER: .Yeah, I think we're correct in saying
that alright. So that's basically the reason why I'm
bringing this issue up, okay.
MEMBER DOYEN: Is it the same kind that reduces the metal
reinforcement in concrete to, you know.you have here, here's
the reinforcing in the concrete.
MR GRIM: Right.
MESIBER DOYEN: So when that's ground up what happens to it?
MR GRIM: There's a magnet belt over here and.
MEMBER DOYEN: Oh, okay.
MR GRIM: The one belt goes up, this other belt spins fast
and takes it out and it separates it.
CHAIRMAN GOE~tRINGER: Would that be used for real
Page 21 August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Donald & Jeanne Grim
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN, cont'd: construction, Don? The crushed concrete.
MR GRIM: Yes. It goes back for a sub base, so you are
taking something that would go into the landfill and jus~ be
buried and you get to reuse it again. It is State approved.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And you would be selling that from the
site?
MR GRIM: Correct. That would be stock piled in that back
area where we have the stock piled material.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. I don't have any other
questions, we'll ask Mr. Villa if he has any.
MEMBER VILLA: Yeah, I was lust wondering I was looking at
the resolution that was passed by the Town Board and they
state in here that you would be, you should have no more than
five 55 gallon drums to store the toxic and hazardous
materials.
MR GRIM: That's what I'm approved for now, we're going back
to the Department of Health for a 500 of waste oil 500 of
fuel. That's approved on the property now. We're going back
to them in another package which is going back to
I think he over sees everything and it's
being...
MEMBER VILLA: So you are going to the Health Department for
an Article 12 permit? That's a toxic...
MR GRIM: I'm just learning some o~ this. I thought it was
an Article 7.
MEMBER VILLA: Article 7 is...
ME GRIM: I could be wrong.
MEMBER VILLA: That depends on how they look at it.
MR GRIM: Okay.
MEMBER VILLA: I sent all your deep recharge requirements.
MR GRIM: I had a deal with...
MEMBER VILLA: Pete Akras?
MR GRIM: No somebody else. He was asking me what I was
doing and you know I sent them back and now I think the
Page 22 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Donald & Jeanne Grim
Southold Z.B.A.
MR GRIM, cont'd: volume of cars is going to be up like you
say and the fluids are going to up, so we are going try to up
the volume.
MEMBER VILLA: You are going to comply to all their double
tanks, and their double piping.
MR GRIM: I think if we make a shed out of concrete outside
and then put one of North Forks containers inkide of it we've
got a dual purpose° I think you are allowed...
MEMBER VILLA: It depends on how they look at it because a
lot of the piping they want double wall piping.
MR GRIM: Okay if this is what they want...
MEMBER VILLA: But you are in the process.
MR GRIM: Well yeah, you know, whatever they want.
MEMBER VILLA: I just didn't want it to happen after the
fact.
MR GRIM: No, okay, thank you.
CHAIRFLAN GOEPIRINGER: Does anybody else have any other
questions. Okay. We'll see what develops throughout the
hearing. We thank you.
MR GRIM: Thank you'very, much.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody else who would like to
speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak
against the application? Seeing no hands I make a motion
closing the hearing reserving decision until later°
All in Favor - AYE.
Page 23 - Augus~ 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Lawrence Cervon
Southold Z.B.A.
Appl. No.: 4042
Applicant(s): Lawrence Cervon
Location of Property: Peconic Bay Blvd, Laurel, NY
County Tax Map No.: 1000-126-11-21
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:35 pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have copies of a site plan produced
by Samuels and Steelmen the most recent date is 7/9/91
indicating the nature of this application and the additions
that are sate. And I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax
Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area.
Mr. Samuels would you like to be heard?
MR SAMUELS: I think that the application~s fairly complete
by ~tape not picking up conversation) The entire, almost the
entire residence left outside the envelope as we're talking
about the zoning ordinance so there is an existing non-
conforming. Also with regard to the rear yard and it's a 75
foot set back ofi of the bulkhead. We've looked very
carefully at this house and tried to find a way to increase
the size of it for the Cervon's use. And unfortunately any
addition that we can make to the principle living space is of
course to look out on the Bay will increase the non-
conformity that currently exists. So that was the primary
reason for coming to the Z.B.A. was to find a way or to
petition the Board to grant a variance on the water side to
allow the Cervons to add on to those rooms which they need to
do in order to fit in'the house, so to speak. Currently the
house has a 56 foot se5 back from the lower bulkhead, there
are two bulkheads on the property. We are looking to
increase the house by approximately 12 feet on the front
which would therefore reduce that set back to 43 foot from
the lower bulkhead. We're adding on, we're proposing to add
on approximately 360 square feet to a house which is
currently 2060 square feet approximately 15%. That brings us
up to a total lot coverage of 13.8% which is significantly
less than the allowable 20%. So we feel that we're not over
building the site in that regard. The principle issue is the
set back off of the bulkhead side. We understand that it is
increasing an non-conformity and we certainly would have done
a~ything in our power to avoid doing that, however, it was
just felt by us and from that this was the only
way to add on to the house since it is completely within the
set backs. We feel that we've done it in a way which does
not directly effect the neighbors view of the Bay seeing as
any view that the neighboring houses have across the Cervon's
property is one that they are not specifically entitled and
the Cervon's couldn't actually effect that view by other
Page 24 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Lawrence Cervon
Southold Z.B.A.
MR SAMUELS, cont'd: means, by landscaping or whatever to
increase their own sense of privacy. We have a waiver from
the Board of Trustees for the action and we are expecting
shortly a letter of non-jurisdiction from the D.E.Co seeing
as we are behind the pre-existing bulkhead and also above the
ten foot contour. Finally we hope that we will make, we
certainly will make every effort to blend the new addition
into the existing architecture of the building and the
neighborhood which is one of century beach cottages upgraded
mostly or at least largely winterized, or winterized homes
and to that end we hope that our action, our close action
would definitely not adversely effect the character of the
neighborhood.
CHAIRMAN GOE~tRINGER: Can I ask you what the new addition is,
or what is the proposed?
MR SAMUELS: It's an addition to an existing living room and
dining room space.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I see.
MR SAMUELS: Because there is an existing living/dining on
the side, but somehow the way house was built it's kind of a
strange layout inside and the spaces are very odd to
configure.
CHAIRMAN GOEF2~INGER: Where does the addition fall short.
What room is that? The bay window is that a bedroom on the
opposite on the west side of the house?
MR SAMUELS: On the west side that is a master bedroom.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That is a master bedroom~ okay. And as
the nature of this application, it is not the nature of this
application because you are not adding on to that° It's pre-
existing.
MR SAMUELS: That's pre-existing.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right.
MR SAMUELS: I have just some photographs of the area to give
an idea of the land and also the existing condition
of our building and the adjacent buildings. And they are
numbered and basically the top row is the Cervon's residence
and then the lower row is the adjacent buildings.
CHAIRi~AN GOEHRINGER: tsthere anything else you would like
to add Mr. Samuels.
Page 25 - August 15, t991
Public Hearing - Lawrence Cervon
Southold Z.B.A.
MR SAMUELS: No that's it.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Thank you. Is there anybody
else who would like to speak ih favor of this application?
MR CERVON: Yes, Mr. chairman.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Could you just state your name for the
record sir?
MR CERVON: My name is Lawrence Cervon and I'm the owner of
the property.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How do you do sir?
MR CERVON: Good evening. My wife, my niece and my son are
here tonight.
CHAIRi~AN GOEHRINGER: How do you do?
MR CERVON: My wife's family has been involved in this area
since 1929 her father built a home on South Oakwood Drive in
Laurel and her mother still owns the same property and my
wife spent just about every summer of her life out here and
since we've been married which is almost 40 years we've spent
every summer out in Southold to drive and in Laurel, so is my
children and the only reason I mention that is I am very well
acquainted with the area and have kept in mind maintaining
the integrity and the character of the property. What we're
trying to do is add a little more living space and to update,
to enhance the appearance of the building and I did quite a
bit of sole searching before I decided that we really had to
do that and employ an architect to study it and because of
the configuration of the lot it just didn't appear to be any
way to add more living space expect to more towards the bay.
And I believe that whatever is done, if the Board approves
our request I can assure you and our neighbors it will be
done in an absolutely professional manor and they will be a
AAA type of construction and will not only enhance the
existing structure, but I believe it will enhance the
appearance of the entire area and everybody will be quite
proud that what was done was done in such way to maintain the
integrity and the character of the area, so thank you very
much in your consideration.
CHAIP3L~N GOEHRINGER: Thank you sir. Is there anybody else
who would like to speak in favor of the application? Anybody
like to speak against the application? Yes sir, kindly state
your name for the record.
Page 26 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Lawrence Cervon
Southold ZoBoA~
MR MCDERMOT: My name is John McDermot, my wife and I are the
owners and residence of property immediately to the east of
Mr. Cervon~s property.
CHAIRM3~N GOEHRINGER: Is your house a log cabin sir?
MR MCDERMOT: That's right.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay°
MR MCDERMOT: On July 26th I addressed a letter to the Board
and I'm sure it's part of your record. If I may I would j~st
like to touch on the points covered in the letter. The
structure proposed would permanently obscure a portion of our
view with the bay. Definitely across Mr. Cervon's property.
The diminished view of the bay would have'a significant
effect on the economic value of our property. Three, as
stated by the appellants, the proposed structure would
continue to encroach on the side yard set backs as does the
permanent structure now in place. In my opinion the
negative economic impact of the items one through three above
could possibly amount to somewhere in neighborhood of thirty,
forty thousand dollars. Now~ in the application for a
variance, the appellant statement says that the proposed
addition to the present structure could not had detrimental
effect on the character or the nature of the existing
neighborhood. It would jet out permanently from the line of
the existing structures in the neighborhood. That's briefly
what was in my letter. Today Mr. Samuels was kind enough to
have me receive a letter that disputed some of the points I
made, unfortunately I got it out of the mailbox today and I
wasn't in a position to write the Board a letter discussing
these points. I thought if you would be good enough you
would allow me to just take them up. I won't be long. He
states that we're not legally entitled to the view of the bay
across the Cervon property. Perhaps that's so, but I presume
the bay front set backs were established to protect an all
around view not just the direct view across the bay that Mr.
Samuels mentions in his letter. If that's not so I'm puzzled
as to why there is a bay front set back. Why couldn't anyone
build right up to the high water mark? The second point Mr.
Samuels made was Mr. Cervon is entitled to build up to the
side yard set back that was established for the present
residents. Now, I'm not sure how deep this building is,
perhaps 40 feet a lot is nearly 400 feet deep, I find it
difficult to understand how the Board could 25 years ago
grant a variance for a building approximately 40 feet depth
and at the same time have conveyed a right to build up to the
same line in either direction approximately 360 more feet. I
find that a little difficult to digest that. Mro Samuels
Page 27 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Lawrence Cerv~n
Southold Z.B.A.
MR MCDERMOT, cont'd: also made the point that the Cervon
buildings existing and proposed probably would not, states
they would not exceed the 20% allowable site coverage. But,
if all this construction whichlis at the south end of the
property were considered I think very likely that would cover
about perhaps 35 to 40% of the south end of the property.
And I am sure in any event the addition would contribute to a
cramped and over built appearance no matter how good the
taste is the architects tastes and design could be fine,
however, it would be pushed to the limit. Now poinn four,
Mr. Samuels made that this addition should have no effect on
our future plans or property or value property. Well that
may be his opinion. My opinion is the opposite. It would
have an effect. He also states that the addition would
improve the value of existing properties. Well, I'm sure you
good gentlemen might give it a little thought, perhaps,
something along the line of Joyce Killman. Something about
the beauty of a tree. Well I assure you at least for me,
that no structure no matter how fine it is, would satisfy me
more than looking at the bay. Thank you gentlemen.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Mr. McDermot. Is there
anybody else who would like to speak against this
application? Any questions from Board Members? Hearing no
further questions I make a monlon closing the hearing
reserving decision until later.
All in Favor - AYE.
Appl. No.: 3958, 3959
Applicant(s): Mr & Mrs Joseph Hardy
Location of Property: 13500 Main Road, Mattituck~ NY
County Tax Map No.: 114-11-5
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:55 pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey indicating
produced by John T. Metzker, land surveyor the most recent
date I have it as May 14, 1991 indicating the cement block
building with approximately three stories, two used for
retail use, one an office, business office, a house with two
apartments, a framed cottage in the rear that with an
apartment in it. I should mention for the record that this
Board did view these premises last year and we and I
would ask the attorney for the applicant. Would you like to
be heard?
MR REALE: Good evening Members of the Board. My name is Ed
Reale, attorney for the applicants, Joseph and Betty Hardy.
Page 28 - August 15 1991
Public Hearing - Mr & Mrs Joseph Hardy
Southold Z.B.A.
MR REALE, cont'd: As Mr. Chairman had mentioned this
property is located in the town's hamlet business district.
It's on the south side of the Main Road just to the east of
the large turn in the middle of Mattituck. It's in probably
the most intensely developed part of maybe the whole Town of
Southold. All of this is clear from the record that's in
front of you and it's on the survey. All of the buildings
that are currently on that site from which you've seen all
pre-exist zoning in the town. There's a certificate of
occupancy that indicates that all these structures were there
prior to 1957 when zoning was enacted in the Town of
Southold.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The structures, but not the uses in the
structures.
MR REALE: Yes, that's correct.
CHA!FA~3~N GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MR REALE: The buildings themselves~ Nothing new has been
built.
CHAIRMAN GOEH~INGER: N~r was the nature of this application
that storage building in back is that correct?
MR REALE: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sorry.
MR REALE: The reason we're here tonight is the Hardy's are
seeking permission to essentially legitimize the continued
use of the house which has two apartments in there and the
cottage structure that's in the back in'the rear of the
property which is a small apartment as well. It's a
residence, a one bedroom residence. The reason we have a
special exception application in as well as a variance is
that in this hamlet district under provisions of 91B4 of the
town code we have a special exception that is permitted from
the town for apartments above stores or above offices. This
application would meet all of those requirements as set forth
as you know special exception, a special permit all is
necessary for the applicant to do is te meet the standards in
order to be granted that permit. In that department, we
qualify for the special permit, we are not detached by the
few feet it is from the store, it's in fact directly behind
the store, which is the only thing that raises a question
whether it can be the special exception permit or not. Where
as the apartment just moved over the store or is connected it
would meet the special exception requirements for that part
Page 29 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Mr & Mrs Joseph Hardy
Southold Z.B.A.
MR REALE, cont'd: of it. The apartment in the back rather
the cottage that's in the back is also it's been there for
many, many years pre-existing zoning. The I'll have Mr.
Hardy is here tonight explain To you further what's been done
to the cottage and some history of the cottage but prior to
that again, I make it very clear that this pre-exists zoning,
it was already there. It was separate water disposal sewage
system for each structure for separate well systems for both
the cottage and the two aparr_ment house that's in the front.
As far as what surrounds this property, I'm sure everyone
here is familiar with what's on the Main Road it's for
everyone to see to the, immediately to the west of this
property there's quite a large office retail complexes, it
appears to me to cover the entire lot with either parking or
a store is quite a larger bigger than the subject
application. Immediately to the east is a southwestern
restaurant it's a house that's converted to a restaurant with
an apartment above it. Across the street there's a liquor
store and some offices and dry good other business uses,
business type uses. The entire area is very intensely
developed. I submit one copy of the town zoning code that
from that area that indicates the sizes of the lots and
intensely developed it is. This lot is not really any
different than any of the other lots there as far as the size
and the amount of development in the area.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you sir.
MR REALE: So in effect there's not going to be any problem
with the neighbors here it's not a situation where having
some business uses in an area that's going to impinge upon a
residential district. Additionally as far as the special
exception concept goes I think it's very clear that the
spirit and the intend that the town had in creating that was
to make some rental housing available without the need for
developing land. I think this fits very nicely into that.
They're two small apartmenss into both each one bedroom. You
have the floor plans in the file. It's certainly within the
spirit of that. It doesn't create any new structures, it's
not anymore intensely developed then if you had a large
family, one family house. I think that's very much with
keeping with the concept of this special permit for an
apartment. The cottage in the back is also very small it's a
one bedroom upstairs, it's two stories, but it's a bedroom
upstairs and just a living space down below.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Are all three structures rented, are
they being used now, I mean the Hardy's were kind enough to
take us in the, actually we went in all three at one time
last year when, I think there was even snow on the ground
Page 30 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Mr & Mrs Joseph Hardy
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIP/~AN, cont'd: that day, I don't remember if it was this
year or last year it doesn't really make any difference but
one of the apartments was not rented at the time. But they
are all rented now? ~
MR REALE: Yes. ~Furthermore on the survey that's in the file
you will note that there's an area that hasn't all been
some of it's open in the back. It's all been out there for
parking, there's certainly more than enough off street
parking to accommodate the small structure, the small
residential structures as well as the stores and office that
are there. According to our surveyor there's room for 19
cars on the lot. That's more than adequate for three small
apartments, it's certainly more than the code calls for. For
three small apartments as well as the stores that are there.
I~d like to ask Mr. Hardy to tell you a little bit about the
history of the house, application that you have.
MR HARDY: Good evening.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How do you do?
MR HARDY: I have some pictures of the existing structures
before we started that I'd like to present here.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Approximately, was this just after you
purchased the property Mr. Hardy?
MR HARDY: Yes. I purchased that from Charlie Zahra in 1987.
At the time, I was told that there would not be a problem
getting a c/o on the cottage. I went to the Building
Department~ got a building permit explained to Mr. Lessard
exactly what we were going to do with the property. He
advised me that I was going to have to come before the Board
to get an approval on the cottage. And I ended up investing
over $200,000 in the property and set up the apartments and
what I understand the zoning had changed from single family
to two family during that time I think in 1988, so we made an
apartment upstairs and between the mortgage and the taxes and
everything else I kind of structured it so that I would break
even on the property. As far as interior, as you know, we
redid kitchens, carpeting, the whole outside of the little
buildings, new roofs, roof on the front building,
new heating systems, new cesspools, and whatever site work
needed to be done.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there presently a c/o on the main
dwelling? Net that, for what a one family house?
MR HARDY: Yes.
Page 31 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Mx ~ Mrs Joseph Hardy
Southold Z.B.k.
MR REALE: Here's the current c/o.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's a copy for ~s? Thank you.
MR REALE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anything, sorry Mr. Hardy, is
there anything else you would like to add?
MR REALE: No. What was, was there a two family in the ....
MI{HARDy: Originally from what Charlie had told me it was,
there were two families in there before two families were
legal and I think there was a complaint or something about it
and the Board or somebody went in and he had a kitchen
upstairs and a kitchen downstairs but he rented to one ~amity
at that time. When I purchased the property there was a per
grooming which was commercial and I was advised by the
Building 9epartment that that was definitely not legal and I
should have them move to another ~ocation.
MR REALE: And that was in the cottage.
MR HARDY: Right. That's correcu.
MR REALE: Now what was the cottage structure like then when
you bought it?
MR HARDY: The cottage was set up as an apartment. The pet
grooming just left it as an apartment with a refrigerator,
kitchen~ cesspool, well and fully carpeted. And we just went
inside and did renovations to the structure.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And you're asking us again to
legitimize three retail, q~asi business re~ail stores and
three apartments, is that correct?
MR REALE: Well.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Two in the house and the rear one?
MR REALE: Currently there's a c/o for the three retail
stores, that's not an issue.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I understand. No I'm not making it an
issue, but I'm Just trying, it being all encompassing anyway.
Okay, go ahead.
MR REALE: Yes ultimately what we'd like is approval for the
second apartment in the house and the cottage in the back
Page 31 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Mr & Mrs Joseph Hardy
$outhold Z.B.A.
MR REALE: Here's the current c/o.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's a copy for us? Thank you.
MR REALE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEPIRINGER: Is there anything, sorry Mr. Hardy, is
there anything else you would like to add?
MR REALE: No. What was, was there a two family in the ....
MR HARDY: Originally from what Charlie had told me it was,
there were two families in there before two families were
legal and I think there was a complaint or something about it
and the Board or somebody went in and he had a kitchen
upstairs and a kitchen downstairs but he rented to one family
at that time. When I purchased the property there was a pet
grooming which was commercial and I was advised by the
Building Department that that was definitely not legal and I
should have them move to another location.
MR REALE: And that was in the cottage.
MR HARDY: Right. That's correct.
MR REALE: Now what was the cottage structure like then when
you bought it?
MR HARDY: The cottage was set up as an apartment. The pet
grooming just left it as an apartment with a refrigerator,
kitchen, cesspool, well and fully carpeted. And we just went
inside and did renovations to the structure.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And you're asking us againto
legitimize three retail, quasi business retail stores and
three apartments, is that correct?
MR REALE: Well.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Two in the house and the rear one?
MR REALE: Currently there's a c/o for the three retail
stores, that's not an issue.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I understand. No I'm not making it an
issue, but I'm just trying, it being all encompassing an!rway.
Okay, go ahead.
MR REALE: Yes ultimately what we'd like is approval for the
second apartmenE in the house and the cottage in the back
Page 32 - August 15~ 1991
Public Hearing - Mr & Mrs Joseph Hardy
Southotd Z.B.Ao
MR REALE~ cont'd: which was apparently a cottage many years
ago as well. Mr Hardy, whom I know is a plumber, tells us
that the plumbing in that cottage is about 20 years old or
older. So that was used as anlapartment~ he bought it as
such to legitimize that as well I think that, to obtain
approval so that can be used as a residence. So there would
be one residence in the back and a two family house and a
special exception however the Board wants to look at that~
That the second apartment was in the house. Now this doesn't
re,lire adding anything to the house° As it has always been
configured~ just a wasted item insides internally. As you
can see from those photographs, there's been enormous
improvement that piece of property, ! stopped by there again
tonight to look at it. It's a big improvement over what use
to be there and I think it actually adds a little something
to part of the town, part of Mattituck it3s kind of marginal.
I mean there's some vacant pieces there and there's a piece
next door that's been cleaned up. it looks nice. ! think it
actually adds something to that area. As you know very often
you find when that happens it has a domino effect° There are
some other pieces there aren't looking quite so good I think
this has a positive impact. I don~t see how it would have
any effect on the neighbors or on the neighborhood in general
other than positive effect. The Hardys were presented with
this as kind of a given assuming that this all could be taken
care of~ it was all there. The yard was adequate~ septic was
adequate, the water. I don~t see any reason why
request to get a building permit.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I'!l see if the Board has any
questions. Do you gentlemen have any questions on this
applicant?
MEMBER VILLA: What's the percentage of lot coverage?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don~t know if it was calculated~ Bob~
~hamlet business district. Let's see. It's not shown on~
let's see, I don~t see it indicated here. It doesn't appear
to be, do you have it?
MR REALE: I don't want to take a guess but I can have the
surveyor supply you with that.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Supply us with that.' This is a very
difficult situation in the respect that we~ there's no doubt
you have spent a lot of money on this property, Mr. Hardy,
we had discussed this the day that we met with you° I mean
we're aware of that situation° Having lived in Mattituck
most of my life, summers, coming out here since 1948, I was a
year old and certainly well aware of what existing there and
Page 33 - August 15, 1991
Public Hearing - Mr & Mrs Joseph Hardy
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN, cont'd: how Nick Kouros built it and what existed
prior to Charlies first, before Charlie Zahra owned, Gene
Gioni owned, along with the tavern next store and then he
sold it to Charlie Zahra and then Charlie Zahra sold it to
you. For the life of me and for the record I never new that
back cottage to have anything more in it then Mr. Kouros was
in the camera business and the back cottage to my knowledge
or that back garage which I new to be a peck room was simply
was a dark room and he used it for his camera supplies. The
store he had was relatively small and that was my knowledge
that he used that for. I had no idea how the second
apartment got into the front house or to what degree ~t got
in. All I can tell you is the Kouros were a fairly small
family and I didn't think they utilized that entire house
themselves. And that's all I can pretty much tell you about
it. But I remember since the late 50's early 60's. I've
been living ou~ here permanently since 1964, 65 and spent a
lot of time every week at the Bohack of course is the
building to the west Side which is now the bicycle shop, the
insurance agency and so on and so forth and that's all I can
pretty much tell you. But we'll see what we can do for you
that's all we can do. We appreciate you coming in~
MR HARDY: Okay. I appreciate it.
CHAIRFa~N GOEHRINGER: We appreciate all your help and we
thank you Mr. Reale.
MR REALE: Okay. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Pleasure meeting you sir. Is there
anybody else who would like to speak concerning this
application? Seeing no hands I make a motion closing the
hearing reserving decision until later.
All in Favor AYE.
Page 34 - August 15~ 1991
Public Hearing - Cliffside Associates
Southold ZoBoA~
Applo No.: 4039
Applicant(s): Cliffside Associates
Location of Property: 61475 Ceunty Road 48, Greenport~ NY
County Tax Map No.: 1000-45-1L1 & 2
The Chairman opened the hearing at 9:15 pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record°
CHAIRMAI~ GOEHRINGER: I would mention to the Board however
since We are granting Mr. Haefeli a recess I cannot guarantee
him we will put it on for the next regularly scheduled
meeting. It may be for the October meeting and I will at
this particular time offer a resolution to recess the hearing
without a date and we'll see what the calendar looks like for
the great month of September before we reschedule this.
All in Favor - AYE°
~Hearings transcribed by tape
not present at hearings)