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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-03/22/1991 HEARING TRANSCRIPT OF HEARINGS SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS REGULAR MEETING OF FRIDAY~ MARCH 22~ 1991 Board Members Present: Chairman Gerard P. Goehringer Members: Doyen, Grigonis, Dinizio and Villa Linda Kowalski, Z.B.A. Secretary and approximately 35 persons in the audience. Appl. No. 4008 Applicant(s): Tony and Marie Kostoulas Location of Property: 1035 Aquaview Ave, East Marion County Tax Map No.: 1000-21-2-13 The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:35 pm and read the notice of hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey which was prepared by William R. Simmons. The most recent date is November 15, 1990, indicating a cape cod story type house. The closest point as indicated, penned in on the survey, at 18 feet. The nature of this variance or this application, which is a variance, is to square off actually the rear of the house. At it's closest point, it appears to be approximately 18 feet. And I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Would you like to heard, Mr. Randazzo? Could I ask you to use the mike if you would. Just state your name for the record, we are taking it down. MR RANDAZZO: My name is Vito Randazzo, and I represent the Kostoulas, they are right here in fact. Briefly what I want to say is that all we are trying to do at this point is to square off the rear yard, which is, if you look at the survey, it shows the portion which is protruding through the building and all we want to do is box it in to make a more, a larger home, so to speak. Because of the fact that the house is very small and because the Kostoulas would like to have a four bedroom home, strictly a vacation home, and it would not, in fact, would be a real asset to the community, in a sense that it certainly will be a very beautiful home. Outside of that, there really isn't much, it seems to be pretty. We have some pictures if you would like to see the actual ..... CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have to ask you a question also. Why don't you give me the pictures first. Great. Thanks. Page 2 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Tony and Marie Kostoulas Southold Z.B.A. MR RANDAZZO: Rather dark~ you see the east side~ the west side. CHAIRFLAN GOEHRINGER: You went up there the same day I did~ MR RANDAZZO: Yes. It was really dark. This is a picture of a home next door on th~ bluff. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is a copy of a letter that we received. We had a call from the next door neighbor and they indicate that in doing a measurement, that it's much less than lB feet, its closest point. We do have here a rather symmetrical bluff line. It is not one that's totally irregular or anything, which is pretty good. Was that measurement taken from the corner~ the proposed corner of the house, that 18 feet? I know it's penned in here, it's not done by a surveyor° MR RANDAZZO: The measurements were taken from the existing corner~ which is already 9.2. CHAIRM~_N GOEHRINGER: it was taken from that corner. MR RANDAZZO: Again, I have no defining line as to where the bluff starts or ends. That's a physical thing to do. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGF~R: It's a guesstimate? MR RANDAZZO: Yes. The only reason I say that it doesn't do any damage to anyone because the existing rear yard line is already exposed° I see no harm in squaring off the home at this point and again I reinstate that it just doesn't make any sense not to square this off. It's doing no harm to anyone~ the way I see it. Except for the side yard of course. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Would you do me a favor would you state bothr actually we are really not concerned with the west side. We are really concerned with the east side. Would you stake that addition all the way out? In other words just give me a point that I can measure from and I'll do a variance myself on reference to distance from. If you wouldn't mind. MR RANDAZZO: No problem. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Either this weekend or next weekend and we'll run out there. We will be addressing this issue on probably April 5th anyway. Alright? Page 3 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Tony and Marie Kostoulas Southold Z.B.A. MR RANDAZZO: Sure we'll do that. CHAIRF~kN GOEHRINGER: Okay, I thank you very much. MR VILLA: Do your clients own the house now? MR RANDAZZO: Yes. They intentionally just bought the house with the intention of doing that. MR VILLA: So they just recently purchased it? MS KOSTOULAS: In November. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you again. Is there anybody who would like speak in favor of this application? Is there anybody who would like to speak against the application? Any questions from Board Members? Do you want to close this hearing or do you want to leave it open to April 5th and close it then, in case we have any other questions? MR DINIZIO: Unless you are going to measure it? CHAIRMkN GOER-RINGER: I'm going to measure it. MR DINIZIO: Let's leave it open till then. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Alright, we'll leave it open until and close it that night. We are going to leave the hearing open until after we go and measure it and we will close it on April 5th. Okay? Not hearing any verbal testimony, I'll make a motion recessing the hearing until April 5th, at which it will be formally closed. Thank you. Ail in Favor - AYE. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you so much for coming in. Safe trip home. Appl. No. 4006 Applicant(s): Eric and Mary Ann Alexander Location of Property: S/S Peconic Bay Blvd., Laurel County Tax Map No.: 1000-128-4-20 The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:40 pm and read the notice of hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We opened at that time and received a letter from them, that they would not be available. Are they here? How do you do? Mr. Alexander, Mrs. Alexander. Could I ask you to use the mike, if you won't mind. In reading your Page 4 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Eric and Mary Ann Alexander Southold Z.B.A~ CHAIRMAN, cont'd: decision I noticed that you are requesting this addition for the purposes of making a larger kitchen, is that the case? Is there anything you would like to say for the record? ~ ALEXANDER: Yes, sir. My name is Eric Alexander. The kitchen itself is at this point 30 years old and in desperate need of modernization. My family is growing, I have four children and my widowed mother-in-law lives with us half the time~ so while we are intending to modernize the kitchen~ it is an opportune time for us to also expand it so that it's easier to eat in the kitchen itself. That's the reason for the request for the variance. The hardship would be involved in perhaps relocating the kitchen which is financially not really feasible~ The properties in this particular area, along the Boulevard are quite long and narrow and the house itself is built to situate on that particular piece of property~ so it is in fact, the house is long and narrow. The area in question on the Boulevard is mostly a summer area and there are quite a few residences in the area that have five feet or less side yard variances. In fact~ of the seven properties that adjoin my piece of property~ there are seven structures on those properties that are five foot or less to the existing property line. i have pictures of those particular structures. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Great. Could we see them? MR ALEXANDER: Sure. Just to iinish. The westerly boundary which is where the intended addition would be~ there is a new~ a brand new structure being built there, on that piece of property at this point° That structure, in fact has a five foot side line variance. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is the McGowan one. We had an application on that. This is McGowan also. Where is this one? MR ALEXANDER: This is the new structure to the west. That's up on the bay. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Can I write on the back of that? MR ALEXANDER: Sure. Absolutely. That is owned by Dr. Grouson, that new piece there. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That is probably, formerly McGowan but they were McGowan at one point. Page 5 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Eric and Mary Ann Alexander Southold Z.B.A. MR ALEXANDER: That is in the neighborhood. That is not near my house. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is of course the same one that goes with this. That's a closer view. MR ALEXANDER: That's right. That was a closer view. This is on the east side of my home. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is again the new home, right? MR ALEXANDER: Yes. CHAIRM~ GOEERINGER: There's an interesting one. MR ALEXA/~DER: That's Gr6ss. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is that a white garage. MR ALEXANDER: No. This is to the east of the actual building, Dr. Gross happens to own two pieces of property. This is his garage and then this is to the east of his garage, there's a home and a garage. I would be probably more in conformance with the neighborhood if I had the variance. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I'm going to pass these over. You are going to give me this right? MR ALEXANDER: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Let me take those also. We have two members of the Board that were not on the Board at the time. I do want to ask you one or two more questions. MR ALEXANDER: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: My question, Mr. Alexander, is the 4.8 feet which you propose. Does that include the overhang? or would there be a further? MR ALEXANDER: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It does include the overhang? MR ALEXANDER: I believe it will include the overhang. The actual structure will not be that close. CHAIRM3%N GOEHRINGER: The reason why I ask you that question is, we've had, I'm trying to think of the person that we had Page 6 - March 22~ 1991 Public Hearing - Eric and Mary Ann Alexander Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN, cont'd: an application with, across the street from you, it's down the road a piece~ But it doesn't make any difference. We had kind of an unwritten rule that you have to be able to place a ladder on the side of your house so as if the ladder is on your property when you are physically working on your house. I do attest to the problems that exist on an undersized lot of this nature~ however, and I'm very well f~miliar because I did live across the street from you for about 16 years, at one time. I don't presently. So~ I~m going to ask the Board if they have any reason that they might want to go into Mr. Alexanders' house and look at the present situation that exists and what he intends to do or can we see this from the outside? Bob? Jim? MR DINIZIO: What I see on here is fine with me. MR VILLA: I was down to the site. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I guess not~ So we will just let the hearing go and we'll close it and we'll make a decision. MR ALEXANDER: ~nank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I'll probably be back to look at it again. MR ALEXANDER: Okay. Thank you. MR VILLA: Mr. Alexander~ before you leave~ how long have you lived in the house? MR ALEXANDER: I~ve been in there 15 years. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you again. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application? Is there anybody who would like to speak against this application? No further questions. I make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. All in Favor - AYE. CHAIRMAN GOEHI~INGER: Thank you again for coming in. I hope to have a decision for you shortly. Appl. No. 3988 Applicant(s): Antonio Vangi Location of property: 645 Glen Court, Cutchogue County Tax Map No.: 1000-83-1-17 Page 7 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi Southold Z.B.A. The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:50 pm and read the notice of hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This is an application that we had two hearings ago and we were asked to recess and I'll ask Mr. Scaramucci if he would like to speak. Just state your name for the record, Mr. Scaramucci when you get up there. MR SCARAMUCCI: My name is John Scaramucei and I represent the Vangis'. I would like to begin my presentation by correcting something I made on my application. I stated in section one, strict application of the ordinance would produce practical difficulties of unnecessary hardship, because I won't go into repeating the whole thing, but the last thing I say is sometime prior to 1972, I should have said 1979. It was a mistake on my part. I have recently found out that the denial was based on the fact that this proposed garage encroached beyond the 15 foot minimum side yard, but have since come to find out that this is subdivision which I think you recently got iniormation on, was filed prior to the current zoning ordinance, so that the zoning ordinance of the time would apply, which would bring us to a point of encroaching on the side yard 7 feet on our proposed garage rather than, in other words, it would be taking 3 feet off the minimum rather than taking 8 feet off the minimum. The second point I would like to make about the lead for the garage, and the fact that it's, I'll be it's very close to the line, it's still well beyond your requirements of setting up a ladder or being able to pass by the proposed structure. CHAIRMAN GOEMRINGER: We have different requirements for' waterfront. Go ahead. MR SCARAMUCCI: Also, it's only the corner of the building that's encroaching within ten, if the proposed addition would be beyond the ten foot minimum setback. It's not the entire addition that encroaches beyond the setback. I have some pictures of the neighborhood that show, the fact that the lots are all narrow and several of the buildings, the homes have buildings and are very close to their line to begin with. I can give them to you. This one here is the neighbor to the east it shows the hedge line is the property line. That was the same thing only a little closer view. We also have this shed situation. Here's another shot of that neighbor's house. This is the shed, this is what precipitated the entire thing. That used to be down on the bluff and when they did that bulkhead, the dockbuilder raised it up on top. It was arbitrarily set there by the dockbuilder. The Vangis' didn't put it there. They are just Page 8 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi Southold Z.B.A. MR SCARAMUCCI, cont~d: as anxious to get rid of it as everybody else is, yeah. But they have no place to put their lawn mower and the yard eq~ipmento This, this, no this is a view of where their proposed garage would attach to the house. This shows the line across the back of Vangis' house to their neighbor to the west. This shows their neighbor to the east~ the gazebo~ practically right on the bluff. And this one is from the neighbor's house at the east lining up with Vangis' house. The garage addition would not protrude any further then this line showing on this picture. MR DINIZIO: Wasn't that staked when we went there? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It was at one time. I don't know if it's staked now. MR DINIZIO: it was staked out right? MR SCARAMUCCI: Well, I had staked it. It wasn't staked by a surveyor~ but I had put pipes in the ground. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Just let me put a couple things to rest here. Number one, there was originally a garage which was attached to this house~ which was actually a part of the house, isn't that correct? MR SCARAMUCCI: Yes. In my research, actually When I made the application~ I did not know that~ but in my research I have come to find that out. In the file drawings, in the Building Department~ it shows the house~ the original set of plans shows a dining room in that area and then there is a penciled in change signed by the Vangis' and their builder to put a garage in. Then sometime after the construction of the house they went back to the dining area. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Secondly, some of the regulations that are a form of precedent in this Board is that basic situation that you do not close up your side yard areas when you are on the water~ so as to be able to get equipment to the rear yard MR SCARAMUCCI: Emergency equipment? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well, construction equipment or whatever is required. God forbid even if you had to lift the house and move itt which of course you know you have problem here~ because you are a fairly small lot. Not withstanding that fact, if the Board was not so inclined to deal with that type of situation~ this comes into the third portion of it and that's where we have the greatest difficulty and that is Page 9 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangl Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN, cont'd: the placemen% of a detached accessory building so as they do not block other peoples' waterviews, so to speak. I can probably tell you of the 11 years that I've been up here that about 100 times I have told people that we cannot deal with the blocking of other peoples' waterviews in detached accessory structures. That may support the fact that it may be better that this structure be attached to the existing dwelling as opposed to detached. I don't know, that is something that we are going to have to discuss, we did not significantly discuss, nor deliberated upon this because we don't do it before a hearing alright? The proposed structure is 12 feet by 32 feet is that correct? MR SCARAMUCCI: 31 plus or minus. Whatever lines up with the back of the house exactly. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is it one story or two story? MR SCARAMUCCI: It's one story. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And it's what of masonry construction, or is it a wood construction? MR SCARAMUCCI: It's monolithic slab, wood construction. Nothing special about it. It's just a texture one eleven on the outside and a slab garage door and storage shed in the back. CHAIRMAN GOEPLRINGER: Used exclusively for dead storage. MR SCARAMUCCI: The front 24 feet or so would be car and then the back 8 feet or whatever turns out to be would be for yard stuff. CHAIRMAN GOEMRINGER: That's why it's elongated a little bit past the house on the one side? MR SCARAMUCCI: Well. Yeah. He wanted to try to get 8 foot in there for a storage shed, but I counselled him to try not to build beyond the line of the house. So that's why it's a plus or minus figure there. You have to have a surveyor tell us exactly what size to make CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Alright, I have nothing further. I'm sure there will be other discussions. Is there anything that you would like to add before we call it? MR SCARAMUCCI: There have been some negative responses from the neighbors and I would like to make a record for the Board in response to some of them. I will start in chronological Page i0 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi Southold Z.B.A. MR SCARAMUCCI, cont'd: order, I guess. I have a letter here from an attorney, representing the Yannios. I believe you have a copy of it already. I think i brought that up in the opening of my speech, where I mentioned the side yard setbacks~ In her brief here~ she states that we're encroaching on a 15 foot setback which is only actually is only a 10 foot setback. We are only looking for 3 feet of relief, not 8 feet of relief. Then there is a letter dated November 25, signed by several people, Yannios, Wilhelms, Kubecs, etc.~ just as an overview, again I'll state I don=t consider a 3 foot encroachment on a non-conforming lot a serious violation of the building code° The fact that there was a garage on the house, I understand that, but the Vangis were relatively new to this country, they didn't know at the time that they built the house whether they needed a bigger dining area or not. They vacillated between dining area and garage. As it turns out~ their family is large enough that they needed a bigger dining area, so they did take away their garage. The building~ as you see in the picture~ does not create a townhouse effect in the neighborhood~ The neighborhood hasn't substantially changed at all, all the properties are close together~ the houses are targe~ they occupy a major portion of the width of the lots. I would like to state on Mr. Vangis~ behalf that he has total regard for the laws of this town and this country° The reason he is asking to do this is to make sure that he has no more difficulties with his neighbors or the town° He wants to make sure he does everything exactly the way it's supposed to be done. And then there is another letter dated, November 19, which basically states the same as the first letter, the exception was some reference to waterview, closing up somebody's watervieWo What if Mr. Vangi was to plant two blue spruce trees there that grow five or six feet a year, in a matter of a couple of years there would be no waterview an!rway. And then there was a statement here about prevailing winds and electrical storms. It was made by the neighbor to the west. Well the prevailing winds, we all know that if we've lived out here for any length of time, are from the northwest in the winter and the southwest in the summer. So if a fire was to happen at Vangis~ house the neighbor to the east would be threatened more than the neighbor to the west. That's all there is~ unless you have any other _Questions? CHA!R55kN GOEHRINGER: Not at the moment, but I'm sure we'll have y~u back. MR SCAP~AMUCCI: Thanks. CHAIPdV~%N GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application? Is there anybody who Page 11 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAn, cont'd: would like to speak against the application? Ms Ongioni? MS ONGIONI: Good evening. Marie Ongioni, 218 Front St, Greenport, representing Dr. and Mrs. Yannios. Some months ago I believe the first public hearing scheduled back in November, I submitted a memorandum to the Board setting forth the legal problems with this particular application. You are all familiar with the case law in the area and the criteria that is set forth in the leading case which is Wachberger vs McCales and I'm not going to bore you with those requirements tonight. I know you've heard them time and time again. The critical element, in my opinion, is that this is a self imposed hardship. The applicant is requesting a variance in order to construct a garage. However, this structure did at one time have a garage. The applicant on its own initiative converted this garage to living space. He now requests a variance to where a garage when one would have not been necessary if he hadn't converted the garage to living space. That is a self-imposed hardship and the law requires that a variance be denied, when the hardship is self-imposed and I submit to the Board that that is the case in this instance. Also the applicant contends that a 10 foot setback applies rather than & 15 foot setback. The law today requires a 15 foot setback and that is the requirement that would apply to this particular variance. I've also brought to the Board's attentions that there seems to be a contradiction as to whether or not there is a-what the exact distance is from the boundary line. There are two surveys that seem to conflict. It seems that the setback, if this is constructed will be only 3 feet from the boundary, which is certainly insufficient under the current code and also from the standpoint that my clients, who are the neighbors to west, and also from the standpoint of all of the other neighbors who have a view of the Sound now. If this garage is indeed constructed, that Sound view will be destroyed. Not just obstructed. I don't really think it's necessary to reiterate what I've said in the memo, it's in the file for you to review. Does the Board have any questions? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes. Marie, I've recently taught five different classes on zoning at the State University at Stonybrook. Five different and.distinct fifteen hour classes and I used the candid case of the one on the North Road when I carae on this Board, approximately ten years ago, and the exact same thing happened. We required the person to detach, we denied them the application, we required them to detach the storage building and that caused more of an'uproar then it was, if it was attached and it's just my question, Mr. Scaramucci tonight or the general statement that I have. Page 12 - March 22~ 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN, cont'd: We deny this variance, this gentlemen is definitely going to come in with a side yard variance requesting it be placed detached in the side yard somewhere. I don't know if that's going to cause more of a problem~ than attaching it to the existing dwelling. MS ONGIONI: Well it would seem to me that that too should be denied° There is a severance of the house that can be converted, reconverted to the garage storage area° That portion of the house, to the east i believe, it's the east wing of the house, which was at one time a garage. I have photographs. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No~ I'm telling you are welcome to submit your photographs. MS ONGIONI: The garage doors are in fact still there. They have been camouflaged by some iandscaping~ b~t the garage doors are still there. There it is. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: But what if the gentlemen wanted to have a two car garage, instead o~ the original one car garage that was built. That's my issue. Or if he uniquely wanted to place a storage building~ I realize this is not the normal nature of this case~ but it is something that is definitely going to happen eventually if we deny this application° We have experienced this problem at great degrees down on Carroll Road~ where we have actually asked everybody on Carroll Road to put garage doors on both sides, so as to get to the rear yard of their property through the garage because they are closed up conceivably both side yards. I don't know what to suggest in this case. What I'm in effect telling the people that are here that are concerned with this hearing is that we have an approach, approach conflict and I don't know what to suggest to you. Certainly I would much rather see everybody leave this hearing room with some sort of positive way that we can rectify this, bu~ I can't physically see how it's going to be unless you make a recommendation to me. Because denying this is immediately going to place him in a detached situation in the side yard. MS ONGIONI: Well that too would be subject to a denial as I said. CHAIRMkN GOEHRINGER: Well the gentlemen has a unique hardship and that is that..° ~S ONGiONI: But my position is that it is a self-imposed hardship. Page 13 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi Southold Z.BoA. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well it's self-imposed, but again, what happens if he wanted a two car garage. I mean you ask him to come back with & one car garage and now you are saying to me, I mean it's not the nature of this application, but I'm just saying to you that eventually we are going to run into a problem. MS ONGIONI: Well I think this is a non-conforming lot and there must be certain limitations to the amount of expansion that's permitted on a non-conforming lot. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: 20% lot coverage would be the normal. MS ONGIONI: That's right. So the question is, if expansion to this lot would exceed, expansion to this building would exceed the 20% lot coverage then it should be denied. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don't know if we are even near the 20%. MS ONGIONI: I don't know either. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Because I think you own to the high water mark in this particular case, I don't think you own... MS ONGIONI: Then we've also got setbacks from the bluff that need to be dealt with. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That is correct. MS ONGIONI: All of those factors, when taken in as a whole, it would seem to me that at least this particular application should be denied and depending on any future applications, well they should be dealt with individually and if they do either add to the degree of non-conformity or impede the on the neighbors enjoyment of their property, it should be denied. Of course the basic, the critical point here is that this is a self-imposed hardship and this would not have arisen if the garage had not been removed. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Because he enclosed the original garage? That's your opinion. MS ONGIONI: That is correct. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Do you have any questions anybody? MI{ VILLA: Yeah, I would like to get straightened out exactly what this offset is going to be because the one sketch that Page 14 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi Southold Z.B.A. ~R VILLA, cont~d: shows the hous~ has a 17 foot figure on there, but that to me~ that's the setback from the property lines. MR SCARAMUCCI: The 17 foot figure is the number from the surveyor. The surveyor~ I had this survey done.. M_R VILLA: That's the setback, the side yard setback, that's not the width of the building~ MR SCARAMUCCI: Nom That's a side yard setback° MR VILLA: So if you are proposing 12 foot garage then you are talking about a 5 foot? MR SCARAP~CCI: No, sir. Because we are moving the house, we ar~ moving the garage back 3 feet-brings it to the 7 foot point. This house is not parallel with it's western line. The western line veers off.at an angle to the west, so the further you go to the north~ the wider the side yard gets. MR VILLA: Yeah~ but it's not going to be that much in 3 feet. MR SCARAMUCCI: Well it scales out to that. MR VILLA: 17 feet. MR SCARAMUCCI: No. No. It scales out to 7 feet if we give them a 12 foot garage. MR VILLA: You pick up 2 feet and 3 feet? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It's the angle. MR DINIZIO: You are only gaining 5 feet and what's this 32 feet. MR VILLA: There's a 17 foot setback from here to here. He's going to have a 5 foot setback° MR SCARAMUCCI: Well it doesn't scale that way. MR VILLA: Well it's only 22 feet back here. MR DINIZIO: It's 5 feet here to here. MR SCARAMUCCI: 5 feet and 31 feet is approximately 16, so it's a half a foot. Page 15 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi Southold Z.B.A. MR VILLA: If your 17 feet here you are probably 17.5. So you are talking 5.5 feet not 7. I just wanted to get that straight because they have a bunch of numbers here and it doesn't add up. MR SCARAMUCCI: Well what we can do is, I can have the surveyor stake it and get an exact nua~ber. So we are not guessing. Because I'm not a surveyor. I pencilled this in. MR DINIZIO: I tried to measure it and I really couldn't. MR SCARAMUCCI: You can't see the line there because it jumps, it has that little retaining wall there and there is a hedge. I'd have the surveyor do it. I would be glad to do that for you and submit it to you. MR DINIZIO: Well I'd like to see it staked out. I thought it was staked out. MR SCARAMUCCI: I did stake it out, but I couldn't find the line exactly. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well let's get to that point anyway and we'll, because it looks like we are not going to be able to close this hearing tonight anyway. MS ONGIONI: For clarification what is the setback? Is it 3 feet? I see the addition is 17 feet. MR SCARAMUCCI: No. No. That's the setback from the corner of the building as it exists now. MS ONGIONI: According to this the setback is 20 feet from the corner of the building. MICROPHONE NOT PICKING UP CONVERSATION MR SCARAMUCCI: CONVERSATION IN PROGRESS. Here is the setback at the face of the proposed garage. Not lined up with the face of the front of the house. That was done in hopes of reducing the encroachment on other people's property as much as possible. CANNOT UNDERSTAND CONVERSATION. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Can I just ask the questions. Could we go on to the next hearing and we'll come back to this. MS ONGIONI: I'd rather not. I would rather conclude this portion now and if we are going to recess the hearing, leave it open, we must do that. CHAIRMAN GOE~tRINGER: Mr. Villa has another question. Who do Page 16 - March 22, !991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi Southold Z.B.A~ CHAIRMAN, cont'd: you have it of, Ms. Ongioni or Mr.? ~R VILLA: Mrs. Vangi. Is this a year round house? You live here year round? MRS YANNIOS: We will be soon. MR SCARAMUCCI: The Vangis use the house on the weekends° And they use it for vacation time in the summer. MRS YANNIOS: There is only two living in that house and four dining rooms. MR SCARAMUCCI: !~m sure it's going to be quite a few years before they retire. They plan on retiring out here. MR VILLA: They actually built the house themselves? F~ SCARAMUCCI: They had it built~ MR VILLA: They are the original owner? MR SCARAMUCCI: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Does anybody else have any other questions? Ms. Ongioni, is there anything you would like to add? MS ONGIONI: Yes. Is this hearing going to remain open? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have to recess it, because we don't know what the side yard is yet. He's going to give us MS ONGIONI: I have no objection to it. I was just asking a question. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So I really have no other choice. And because it was an interesting question. In my particular estimation, assuming the Board had an interest, and this is pure speculation, I would just say that you had a whole 7 feet and if the garage had to be shortened, it had to be shortened in width, that's very simply the situation. We did the same thing on Jockey or whatever. But we did the same thing on Jockey Creek. The person wanted 12 feet and they ended up with 10 feet and that was the situation. They couldn't get the other footage and that was it. And I'm not suggesting that's the case here, but I think it probably is more important that we have a figure that we can work from. MR SCARAMUCCI: I don't think the Vangis are intractable of Page 17 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi Southold Z.B.A. MR SCARAMUCCI, cont'd: that. They would be willing to, they would be satisfied with whatever, with whatever you come up with. They may shorten the length, they may shorten the width, they may do whatever is necessary to try to keep the' encroachment to a minimum. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So you are going to get that information for us. You are going to have the surveyors there? MR SCARA~JCCI: I'll have a surveyor there. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Good. Jim? MR DINIZIO: I was just kind of interested in your contention that the old zoning code would apply to this? Is there any precedent to that or? MR SCARAMUCCI: Yeah. Section, I think it's in that same Section 100-244C. MR DINIZiO: Yeah, but how do you? MR SCARAMUCCI: Subdivision prior to the code. If the lots are non-conforming the old code applies. MR DINIZiO: But can you, does it say that you can increase that non-conformity? MR SCARAMUCCt: You can increase it to the point that it was at the time of the filing of the subdivision map. At the time the subdivision map was filed it was A zoning. That's all there was A. And the side yard requirements were 10 and 25 total. It's my understanding of the code as it exists today that that still applies to non-conforming subdivisions if they,re filed before this code, I think it's 1983. MR DINIZIO: That you can increase the non-conforming. I understand that you could go to 10 feet, but you want to go to 7 feet. MR SCARAMUCCI: I'm asking for a variance for the 3 feet, not for the 8 feet. CHAIRMAN GOEHRIN~ER~ Do you understand what he means? MR DINIZ!O: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It would be 10. Yeah. It's kind of confusing. This is by the way, is a topic that has been Page 18 - March 22~ 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN, cont'd: under discussion for a long time, ever since the inception of this particular new code that we have been dealing with since i959. The jumping back and forth affect. MR SCARAMUCCI: I'm just a builder, but I'm totally confused by the change at 20,000 feet, all of a sudden you have the large, 25,000 feet you come under the larger lot. You are still not conforming. You are not conforming to 39~000 feet. Page 18 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi Southold Z.B.A. MR SCARAMUCCI, cont'd: Why should you be subject for 1,000 square feet more of property than 20,000 square feet, why should you be subject to that more restrictive zoning? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No. I understand. Ms Ongioni? MS ONGIONi: I have one last question, I think. This map. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I didn't see that one. MS ONGIONI: The applicant tells me that this depicts the addition. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No~ that doesn't depict the addition. That depicts the addition. MS ONGIONI: Okay. CHAIRMAN GOEHRiNGER: I'm sorry you have to read upsidedown. MS ONGIONI: Well I have that right here. MR SCARAMUCCI: This is just a bigger view of it. MS ONGIONI: So this not a 17 foot? How? MR SCARAMUCCI: That's a 17 foot side yard now. MS ONGIONI: How wide is the garage going to be? MR SCAI{AMUCCI: 12 feet. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That was the issue. Was it 5 or was it MR SCARA~WrGCCI: See how it angles. It's 17 in the front at this corner. That means that corner right there. 22 right Page 19 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi $outhold Z.B.A. MR SCARAMUCCI, cont'd: there. But the further you slide the garage to the north on the house the bigger the side yard gets. MS ONGIONI: And how long, how wide is the garage? MR SCARAMUCCI: 12 feet. MS ONGIONI: 12 feet. MR SCARAMUCCI: It's noted up here. You have a copy of this? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes I do. Thank you. MS ONGIONI: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there any further questions concerning this hearing? Hearing no further questions, I make a motion ..... Yes Mrs. Yannios, how are you? MRS YANNIOS: My name is Mrs. Yannios and we live on the west of Tony Vangi. And I was hoping that you gentlemen would come to an end to this matter tonight and I hoped that you would rule in favor of justice and the residents that signed their names to the petition we have submitted. My neighbor, Mr. Vangi, repeatedly states, no one can tell me what I can and cannot do on my property. We tried to inform him that it does not work this way in this country and that he should add to his statement as long as he does not violate the rights of others. Mr. Vangi has submitted to you an application for a variance under false pretenses. He states he does not have a garage on the premises. We have established that there is a garage, only it's been converted into a dining area off the kitchen. It is interesting to know that there are around four dining areas in this house. Formal, and informal. Also, in his application he states that the shack which is practically right on our border line was there before he built his house. Well gentlemen we had been there for years before Tony came and I can assure you, there was no shack there. I remember at the last hearing you stated that your main concern about this situation was safety. I believe you are all aware of the electrical storms and fierce winds that frequently occur in this area. If the dwellings are too close together and one house catches fire, there is a certainty that the winds will spread the fire to the adjoining dwelling. If you have noticed, the trees sway toward the east. That means the winds mostly, you know, blow to the east bound, toward Tony's house. Now if Tony is allowed to put up his garage, there will be very very little space left. His main house being only around 15 feet from Page 20 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Antonio Vangi Southold Z.BoA. MRS YANNIOS, cont~d: our border. Too close to our garage and kitchen, far too dangerous. One day I was cooking in my cozy little kitchen~ outside a storm was ravaging the area~ with fierce winds and electrical charges. All of a sudden I was startled, and almost frightened to death by those electrical charges coming in right off the socket that was right next to the wail~ close to the range. Now who~s to say that something like this can't happen and start a major fire. The first place it would spread~ would be Tony's garage, then on to his house~ then on to John's house~ because this is too close also~ They have some kind of a communication and association whereby they build things together. And their dwellings are very close which I don~t approve of. TURNED TAPE OVER. A shack as long as he decorates it with shrubbery. He's very good all decorating at the other portions of his house~ but he doesn't even care about what that shack does to our property~ That's why I'm mad. CHAI~ GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Is there anybody else who would like to say anything? Seeing no further oral testimony I'll make a motion recessing this to the next regularly scheduled hearing, not to the special hearing that will occur on April 5th. MS KOWALSKI: April 30th~ right? CHAIRMAN GOEHRING~R: Yeah° All in Favor - AYE. kppl. No. 4013 Applicant(s): Carmine and Venusta Carnevale Location of Property: N/S Glenn Road, Southold County Tax Map No.: 1000-75-~-7 The Chairman opened the hearing at B:23 pm and read the notice of hearing and application for the record. CHAIRM3~N GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of ~e survey performed by William R. Simmons~ Jr. dated February 15, 1991, indicating a parcel of property approximately 35 X 156 variable, and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is there somebody who would like to be heard in behalf of this application? Are you the applicant? How do you do? Is there anything you would like to say for the record? MR CARNEVALE: We would like it approved. I have nothing to say except we would love to have it approved. Page 21 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Carmine and Venusta Carnevale Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Do you own a house in the area, next door? MR CARNEVALE: No, I don't. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You don't own it. MR CARNEVALE: No. I'm applying for this. MS KOWALSKI: They are under contract. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You are contracting to buy this or contracting to sell this piece? MR CARNEVALE: I'm contracting to buy it. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINHER: I just didn't, the first question we would normally ask is, do you own a house next door to see if the lot was merged with that lot? That's the reason why I asked that question. MR CARNEVALE: No, I don't. CHAIRMAN HOEHRINHER: All you want to do is come and live in the area? MR CAP~EVALE: We like it out here~ We would like to retire here. Other than that we are applying for a hope that we get it approved. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Does anybody have any questions concerning this application? MR VILLA: Who is the current owner? CHAIRMAN HOEHRINGER: Who is the current owner? We have a title report in the file. MR CARNEVALE: var, I believe is the current owners. I don't know what to say. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So far you are doing fine. MR CARNEVALE: Somebody said, show up, we drove over an hour to get here. Show up in case there are questions. The only thing what we are applying for we would like to have them do, that's all. We got the Board of Health approval and everything for it. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And this is on the excepted list which Page 22 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Carmine and Venusta Carnevale Southold Z~B.A. CHAIRMAN, cont'd: exempts the subdivision, which means the lot stands, so we will definitely take that into consideration and we appreciate your driving all the way out here. MR CARNEVALE: Oh, we don't hear tonight. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We normally do not make decisions. MR CARNEVALE: You notify us? CHAiP~4AN GOESrRINGER: We will notify you. MR CA_RNEVALE: Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application? is there anybody who would like to speak against the application? Seeing no hands, i'll make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. All in Favor - AYE~ Appl. No. 3998 Applicant(s): Henry and Mary Raynor Location of Property: ROW off Peconic Bay Blvd~ Laurel County Tax Map No.: 1000-126-4-1,2,5 The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:27 pm and read the notice of hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMA/~ GOEHRINGER: January 11, 1991, I believe on behalf of Mary and Henry Raynoro Would you like to be heard, Mr. Raynor? MR RAYNOR: Good evening, Mr. Chairman, It's nice to know that you do have quiet meetings. My name is Henry Raynor, and I would like to explain a little bit about the proposal before you tonight. It's a two-fold proposal. The first is to separate seven lots into two parcels. The second would be to create a reasonable access to the lots in question. The subdivision you have before you was created by A.L. Downs in 1922, filed map number 22 in the Suffolk County Clerk's office does not appear on the exempt list in the Town of Southold. Of course this was back in 1957 and subsequDnt to that the subdivision has not appeared on that list either. It was the custom of the earlier subdivisions most of the lots were laid out in 50 and 60 foot widths. This is true throughout this whole big subdivision. Most of the homes already constructed up on the lots occupy two of the proposed Page 23 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Henry and Mary Raynor Southold Z.B.A. MR RAYNOR, cont'd: lots as the filed map indicates. The appeal before you is to create two lots from the seven lots shown on the filed map. Ironically, these seven lots already show as three lots on the existing zoning maps here in the Town. This was primarily because property was transferred to Mr. and Mrs. Mastropaolo at different times and through different owners. One piece being filed in 1950, one in 1952 and the third in 1965. The Board has before them the proposed plan to merge these lots, this would create one lot from the lots shown as number 28, 29, and 30. The second lot would come from those lots 24, 25, 26, and 27. Both these lots would be in excess of the half acre. As we're aware the property is zoned presently under an R-40, we are before you for an area variance. These lots are unique in that they create the remaining group of the subdivision on the east side of the property of the filed map and would resolve any further question concerning other subdivisions. The proposed lots are equal in size and character. Two are greater than the surrounding neighborhood. Property is completely wooded, it slopes to Reeve's Creek on the east. Both the proposed building sites as we've spotted in are above the 10 foot elevation contour, and could easily meet the prior setback standards created in the old zoning section under 100-32A. I would like to address the second part of this variance hearing and that's the right of way for the access to the proposed two lots. I hope you are ready for this. There are an existing four right of ways connected with this property either by deed or by filed map. The first right of way is for deeded rights across Peconic Bay Boulevard to Peconic Bay. This right of way is separated by the roadway and is really not an issue concerning access to the property. The second right of way would actually be owned by the proposed southerly lot. This is a separate tax parcel, but there are right of ways over deeded and older deeds to the northerly lots. This would connect Peconic Bay Boulevard to the southerly lot. This right of way would be incorporated into the proposed southerly lot and we would stipulate on the granting of the access from the westerly portion, Masters Road, it would not be used for ingress or egress for either of these lots. The ten foot strip, which is a separate parcel, being encumbered by many rights of ways, is not an environmentally sound approach to access any of this property. In 1922 it was probably deemed that way. In 1991 it is not° The third right of way runs parallel both north and south to PecoDic Bay Boulevard and to the end of the property on the west side of the subdivision. This is commonly know as Masters Road. The Board hasbeen there and they have probably seen the sign. This right of way is currently shown as being owned by the County of Suffolk, this leaves a question concerning the deeded rights of access over Page 24 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Henry and Mary Raynor Southold Z~B~A. 5~ RAYNOR, cont'd: this property, as parts of it have reverted for tax sale to the County. In a title search, that was presented prior to this Board, Commonwealth Title indicates that this was an improper taking of taxes, and they have been continually paid on certain portions of this right of way, all the taxes necessary. As a result of the deeding out of the entire right of way, certain owners that are on the right of way in essence may not be aware of it, but are shown as owning property on which they pay taxes that show on the road maps and the County Maps as being under the County of Suffolk~ The fourth right of way, it would be the proposed access for the southerly lot~ this one connects with Peconic Bay Boulevard, going north over the right of way number three~ which was mentioned before~ Masters Road then easterly~ then northerly following the course of the filed map of AoL. Downs. ! want to make it clear that my wife and ! are both contract vendees to the Estate of Albert Mastropaolo and pending the decision of this Board~ we will see what will happen~ It's not the easiest thing concerning access on this property. I would be more then happy to try and answer any questions that the Board may have concerning anything that I have presented tonight. CHAIRM~ GOEHRINGER: Mr~ Raynor, you recently had done some improvements to the road itself, that's the north/south right of way. MR RAYNOR: I have not~ CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You have not. MR RAYNOR: i have not. I woul~ like to stand up here and take the credit for it~ but somebody has certainly. That would be right of way three. CHAIRMAN GOEHRIN~ER: In our first meeting, before I get into that~ whatever we impose in reference to standards for the right of way, I'm sure you will be able to live with, i know this is a lead in question and I don~t mean to be... MR RAYNOR: If the Board is going to stipulate a major subdivision road~ no we could not live with it. CHAIRMAN GOEHRiNGER: No, I'm not~ Originally the easterly and then the northerly right of way, to what you refer to as the southerly lot~ I thought you had another suggestion in running it through the northerly lot coming off that way into that parcel as opposed to the improvements over this, untilled basically area. Page 25 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Henry and Mary Raynor Southold Z.B.A. MR RAYI~OR: The preference would be to follow the filed map, however, the northerly lot depending on the right of way to the west, could be utilized but it would break up that northerly line. I would leave that at the discretion of the Board. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So we are going to go back now with the existing right of way as it is so drawn here? MR RAYNOR: As it so shown, drawn, and petitioned. We are open to certain options, one of which I have mentioned. The second of which would the possibility of feeding the northerly lot through right of way number four as is filed on the map because it does go to the southerly line on the northerly lot proposed. If anybody is not confused at this point I would be very surprised. CHAI~Wn~N GOEHRINGER: I think what you better do is, you better come up here and just give me these numbers that you have, so that we all have it and we can deal with it in a decision when we get down to that particular point. You are referring to the purported County of Suffolk, which we know is going to be cancelled... MR RAYNOR: You are missing a few right of ways here. MS KOWALSKI: There is another map here too. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I just want to know what your numbering this right of way to be? MR RAYNOR: This would be three. This would be four. And one goes down here and two actually exists here. CHAIRMAN GOEHRiNGER: This is two along the creek. MR RAYNOR: That is correct. CHAIRMAN GOEt~qINGER: Now, because of the topography of two there is no possibility of you dealing with that? MR RAYNOR: That is correct. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So that basically is going to be a .. MR RAYNOR: I would not want to deal with it. CHAIRMAN GOE~IRINGER: You are not going to deal with it in any ways matter or form. Page 26 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Henry and Mary Raynor Southold Z.B.A. MR RAYNOR: I don:t believe any agency, Town, County or State would ever grant a permit over that. CHAIRMAN GOEPLRINGER: So we are saying that that is basically a covenant area where there will be no construction of any form. MR RAYlqOR: That's correct. Because it is~ it shows as a separate tax parcela However~ we would incorporate it into the southerly lot and it's in no man's land. We would covenant it that there would be no construction~ nor ingress or egress. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, because we had a call from the neighbor. MR RAYNOR: I have spoken to several of them concerning it to assure them that we have no ideas at a!l~ CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay° MR VILLA: On right of way four~ you show it as being bold lines, but yet on the insert here it shows just as a dotted line on those lots. Don~t those people realize they've got a right of way or where are their houses built? MR RAYNOR: There is one house built on this right of way which is built midway between right of way three and we'll call it right of way four to keep it as is. Right of way four exists on the filed map. MR VILLA: It shows here. MR RAYNOR: That's why it shows there. The dotted line on the tax because at the time of deeding of certain of these parcels throughout the last 60 yearst fee title was actually transferred to some of the lots to the south, 23, 24. I would have to get the...I provided them all with independent title searches. They are cloudy at best. I haven't got a straight answer for your question, Mr. Villa. MR VILLA: Because it shows, to me it looks like that right of way is part of that lot and not a separate and distinct right of way. MR RAYNOR: It may very well be shown that way on County maps. The filed map of the subdivision does not show it that way. It's in that gray area. That was one of the reasons for leaving open the options of just using right of way four Page 27 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Henry and Mary Raynor Southold Z.B.A. MR RAYNOR, cont'd: for the southerly lot and Mr. Goehringer mentioned using right of way three for the northerly lot as an access. MR DINIZIO: Are there any obstructions within that right of way? You said there was one built on the right of way. You are not saying it.. MR RAYNOR: No. It's between right of three and right of way four, there is nothing. MR DINIZIO: It's the one that's indicated on that map? MR RAYNOR: Let's look at it so i answer your questions correctly. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Let the record show that we are again pointing to right of way number four. MR DINIZIO: I was talking about this. Is this what you were talking about as far as, it's just built on the right, I mean it would be used on the right of way, not that it's built. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: There is no encroachment on the right of way? MR RAYNOR: No. None at all. There is 70, 80 feet. MS KowALsKI: No fences. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: For the record I had driven down right of way number four as far as I could go to the turn around and no one did shoot at me or anything of that nature. MS KOWALSKI: There are no fences or anything? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No. Nothing. Now before we get into, are you going to address the set-off situation. I know that you have done it already, but is there anything else you would like to say about that before we get into the improvements of the right of ways? MR RAYNOR: Only that the set off situation concerning the area of the variance, the area of variance, it's basically in conformity or larger than the existing parcels that are in the area. Again they are very old lots, very small lots. It was one that was over looked when the ordinance was initiated. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Would you say that the subdivision is Page 28 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Henry and Mary Raynor Southold Z.B.A., CHAIRMANt cont'd: 30%, 60%, 50% constructed? MR RAYNOR: I would say that out of the 30 lots, about a third. Primarily because that third that has been built out would consume two lots on an average for each, for each one of the dwellings. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don't have any particular questions in reference to, are you going to require variances from the creek for any constructions? MR RAYNOR: Under the existing ordinance yes. And I've addressed that with the Trustees preliminarily, I've had them plot the wet lands, which are on the maps and it will be a 25 foot request of relief, should they grant it. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: From the 75 feet? MR RAYNOR: From the 75 feet. We tried to keep everything above the ten foot contour. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Now let's go into the improvements in reference to right of way number three. What are you proposing in this area? MR RAYNOR: Well basically what is there now has been improved. SomebodYhas filled it with bank run sand, whom I have no idea. I would leave that at the discretion of the Board as to number one~ where the access would be and what improvements, with what access they would take as far as granting of the variance~ Right of way four was cut through by the estate. Approximately two years ago it was back opened up. That is as far as they got they stopped at that point and decided that they would try to sell the property. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don't think I have any further questions. Do you gentlemen have any questions? MR DINIZIO: You are preferable to three, right? MI~ RAYlqOR: I would prefer to feed the southerly lot off three if nothing else. That would not disrupt the northerly lot as far as building area is concerned. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this application7 Anybody like to speak against the application? The only other question I have Mr Raynor, I'm sorry that I made you sit down. The improvements over the northerly lot to the southerly lot if they were to, if we were so inclined to deal Page 29 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Henry and Mary Raynor Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN, cont'd: with it on that basis as opposed to, and again I'm a little confused about this and t apologize, I thought there was a confusion here. When I originally asked you, you said that you would rather now deal with right of way number four as an improvement. FLR RAYNOR: As an improvement that would be my preference. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. Instead of utilizing the right of way over the northerly line? MR RAYNOR: That is correct. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Bearing in mind of course, that we are talking much more money or footage as opposed to the other way. MR RAYNOR: To some degree, yes. But it would allow more of the privacy for the other lot. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. I apologize. I'm certainly glad we got those numbers down. Seeing no further questions, I make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. All in Favor - AYE. CHAIRMA~ GOEHRINGER: Thank you very much for coming in. Appl. No. 4005 Applicant(s): Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli Location of Property: 2725 Wells Ave, Southold County Tax Map No.: 1000-70-4-16 The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:45 pm and read the notice of hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It was a recessed hearing from the last regularly scheduled meeting. We'll ask the architect if there is something that he would like add. How are you tonight sir, and thank you for coming back. MR PIEX: I'm Doug Piex. We took your suggestion of the relaxed set backs for the front yard garage and also the concerns of the neighbor to the north, for views through our property to the south and came up with a new position for the garage. Here are five copies of it. But I also have a model, which graphically gives it to you. Here is Wells Road, the red line is a twenty foot set back and you had said last time that we could go as close as perhaps ten feet to Page 30 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli Southold Z.B.A. MR PIEX, cont~d: the property line. We would rather not go quite that close so this is a suggestion of 15 feet. The difference that this scheme has~ for the neigb_bor, who's kind of where you are looking, is that previously there was a gap of about 15' between the garage and the house and now there is a gap of over 55 to 60 feet. We've also tried to respond to your preference of not having the garage doors face the street° So they face~ they turn around this way° MR VILLA: You didn't reduce the size at all or the height? MR PIEX: The garage is the same size. Mr Kelly, who will probably say something~ it's important to him to have two cars. CHAIP~MA1N GOEHRiNGER: Okay. I apologize Mr. and Mrs. I forgot your last name. Would you like to address the Board again? MRS WICKBOLDT: Good evening. This is the first we've seen this, just like yourselves. I have not been able to go back to the property and see how this fits in relationship to our home and what it does. I would like permission to be able to do that and then come back. I don't know if that's allowed, but you keep extending, you know. CHAIRMAN GOEPIRINGE~R: Well we have a hearing scheduled, a special hearing scheduled for the 5th of April, I really do not want to put an2- additional information on it that night. ! would like to close it to verbatim testimony that night. So I guess what I'll do is I'll ask the Board if they would recess it until that particular point at which it happens to be a rather lengthy hearing. I assume what we could do probably is have you come in first thing. Five minutes and rap it up then. That's what we'll do, you digest it and you let us know. MRS WICKBOLDT: I just have this one other comment to make because this is really going to be in the front yard just 20 feet off the street. I don't have a garage on my property and either does the gentlemen on the other side~ If they get permission to put it in the front like that does that open the door that other people can do the same thing. To me these garages, this is a large doLbble garage. My house is 28 feet long. His house is 23, the garage will be 23 feet wide, that's like overpowering. But that"s probably neither here nor there. But what you are doing is~ I assLune, I can do the Same thing, if he's allowed do it, later on. Not that that's what I want to do. What you are doing is, is that going to look nice on that lot. Just casually looking at this and Page 31 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli Southold Z.B.A. MRS WICKBOLDT, cont'd: saying suppose I do that and the man next store does that too. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I think more importantly and your question, and I don't want to second guess your question. I think more importantly is, is the question are we opening up what we refer to as a precedent. In this particular case as I had talked to these people who were here prior, we do definitely have problems with waterfront parcels of property when they become updated from weekend houses to year round houses, or seasonal houses to year round houses. And it certainly has been my preference, and I'm not speaking for anybody else here to put them in the front yard if a person shows that there is really a unique hardship that they have to have a garage and there is one required. MRS WICKBOLDT: I still don't understand why they can't put it here. It actually affects nobody. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We'll ask him that question, but you'll come back to us on the fifth after you digest this. MRS WICKBOLDT: Alright. Fine. CHAIRMA~ GOEHI{INGER: Could you just state your name again for the record. MRS WICKBOLDT: Katherine Wickboldt. CHAIPdMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you so much. MRS WICKBOLDT: My husband wants to say something. MI~ WICKBOLDT: Thank you very much. It's 45 foot set back in our neighborhood? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The front yard set back for the houses, is that what you are saying? MR WICKBOLDT: Yeah. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The set back for the house? MR WICKBOLDT: The set back line for the houses or anything on the block is 45 foot? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It's either 45 or 50. Okay. Doug we didn't discuss that reducing of the side yard on the one side. Maybe Mr. Kelly wants to address that or? Page 32 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli Southold Z.B.Ao MR PIEX: I misunderstand your question. CHAIRMAN GOEHR!NGER: We had originally~ I didn't know this was detachable. We were asking you to place it over there. I thank you for your proposal, but maybe we missed understood each other at the last hearing. I want to be honest with you, that our court, that the lady that transcribes the minutes has now gotten and I don't think she's 28 years old has now gotten three gray hairs from trying to deal with that hearing because she didn't know who was speaking when~ and what was going on~ so we have to be a little more dellcate about that situation. And tonight doesn't appear to be a problem. I thought that you were going to come back, certainly this is a possibility~ but ! thought that you were going to come back with the placement of this garage over on this side of the house. Did we misunderstand each other? MR P!F~: No. I understood you said I could go as close as 20 feet to the front and within to ten on either side. So I picked that side for several reasons. One of them that Mr. Kelly is going to say something about, having to do with safety~ Because there is a very sharp curve here° Also in response to the Wickboldts~ if I put the garage heres they are going to be looking at the garage doors° And i expected that they would prefer to look at a landscaped shingled structure rather than garage doors. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay, thank you. Mr. Kelly~ how do you do? MR KELLY: I think that the first thing I should do is get my wife's name on the record. Her name is different than mine. The last name is Iannicelli. it's not an easy name to remember, but the translation is Gate of Heaven° If you think of that it kind of flows very nicely. A couple of points I want to make and just in responses~ this is the comments I've had. This house was a full year round house before we bought it. We have owned it for 10 years. We've lived there primarily during that 10 year period trying to think through ways that we could upgrade to take advantage of the water and what not~ When we decided to go forward~ we gave the architect and the first thing we did is to take him around the property and make it very clear that we wanted to not interfere with the views of our neighbors towards the water. We made that almost a point at the time factor~ to do everything to enhance the views down that way. In terms of Wells Ave, there are a n%unber of garages that are separated from the houses and on the road side as opposed to the water side, so this is not a precedent. Secondly, in terms of the positioning of the garage in the front we had happened to be Page 33 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli Southold Z.B.A. MR KELLY, cont'd: at a very sharp curve in the road. The way the lot is set up right now there is a regular driveway and a common driveway and there is also kind of & dirt driveway that goes down to the water on the Wickboldt side of the house. You cannot easily access that driveway without stopping and pausing a long period of time to make sure there are no cars coming around the bend in that road. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's on this side of the house? MR KELLY: Right. In order to have some degree of safety in terms of getting in there you really have to get up to where the current driveway is, otherwise you have a big blind spot. We also have a six year old boy and the last thing I want him doing is coming out into that blind spot on his bicycle. So that's the main reason for pushing and talking with Doug about why we want the garage over on that side. It's a very hazardous corner, and that particular corner also, just the way the road is constructed for some reason people go extremely fast relative to tire squeaking. There are always cars coming around there much too fast scaring the neighbors when they hear it. Scaring us when we hear. If we compound that by in effect blocking some of that view with the garage on the other side of the property, it's going to make it more of a safety hazard. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Okay. So you have an objection to having it over on this side? MR KELLY: Yes. A strong one. Because we'll have to come then in such a way that we are always entering off of a blind spot. People coming from, coming up Wells Ave towards Main Road, don't get to see that second driveway until they get through the curve. CHAIRMAN GOEH!~INGER: Alright. MR KELLY: The only other thing is that if we...I understand the Wickboldts need to look at how this thing is in perspective, but we would like to request from our point of view because we would like to move forward on this, rather than keep dragging it out. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I would dearly love to also. But you must understand that we don't like to become a intermediary. And I will make the same statement I've made to people before and that is eight years ago we used to send everybody out, recess for twenty minutes and four years ago we had a fist fight out there and we can't do that an!rmore. To be perfectly honest with you, I don't know if it's the sign of Page 34 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy iannicelli Southold Z.B.A~ CHAIRMAN, cont'd: the 90's or whatever the situation is but~ I would dearly love to get it resolved. I guess the only way we can really resolve it is just ask them to go back out and look at the way you want it to position it and then we'll come back here on the 5th and if we can't live with it we'll make a decision and that's the end of it. That's all I can tell you at this point Mr. Kelly° I thank you very much. Yes, Mr. Wickboldt? MR WICKBOLDT: A 45 foot set back for the two car garage gives you enough lead to go to the whole to look left and to look right, it's not that the garage is like in a city on a sidewalk to back out. Do you understand? You don~t think they are not blocking my view of the sound in the country that's all taken up. This is the only view i've got left. The south, I only look at the creek, i bought the property, used to put a row boat in there and I hope to put my sailboat in the creek someday. That's the only view we've got. I didn't buy it for the Sound view or the Peconic Bay or something. This is the only view right now. And if you do get garages all the way down the whole block like this~ like my wife said, the whole look is gone. That's why we have the laws for the set backs. CHAIPd4AN GOEHRINGER: The Board is not so inclined to have another hearing on this~ so what we will do is we'll close the hearing on the 5th, but we will not take any oral testimony, so after you have established your opiniqn concerning this new proposal write us the letter, and we have to get it within two weeks so that we can close the hearing and present it to both the applicant and his architect~ so that we can get a response back from them within a reasonable time. So if we could have it back in a week or so, we would appreciate it. MRS WICF~BOLDT: I can do that. CHAIRF~N GOEHRINGER: Okay. We thank you so much and we thank you Doug for bringing in this drawing. Nice to meet you Mr. Kelly. Thank you~ Rendering ! should say. Hearing no further comment~ I make a motion recessing the hearing with no more oral testimony till April 5th~ at which time we'll close the hearing and coordinate with the applicant and the contiguous neighbor. Thank you so much for coming in. I need. a second, gentlemen. All in Favor - AYE. Page 35 - March 22~ 1991 Public Hearing - John F Garry Southold Z.B.A. Appl. No. 4007 Applicant(s): John F. Garry Location of Property: 1285 Breakwater Road, Mattituck County Tax Map No.: 1000-106-8-48 The Chairman opened the hearing at 9:00 pm and read the notice of hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of the survey indicating a parcel which is somewhat triangular in shape. Approximately .982 acres and the approximate position of the gazebo which is in the front of the house in the front yard area and copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Mr. Garry, how do you do? Could I ask you to use the mike if you wouldn't mind. What is the approximate size of the gazebo sir? MR GARRY: I think it's about 10 feet. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: From point to point. No matter which point you take. I'm familiar with Mr. Hacknauer who was the prior owner of the house, I live in the area so I'm very well familiar with the area and I asked you why you proceeded to put the gazebo in the front yard rather than over on the other lot where the garage is or something of that nature? MR GARRY: Well there are fruit trees in that other part of the area. CHAIRMAN GOE~tRINGER: And you chose to put it here because this was an open area. MR GAP/{Y: Well I used to have a crab apple tree that became diseased_and was told to take it down. We took that tree down and it seem to be a appropriate replacement in that area. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there any lighting ,to this? MR GARRY: No. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It can be moved? MR GARRY: Concrete blocks that's the way it's installed. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Does the Board have any specific questions concerning this? This gentlemen does not have a really much of a rear yard area. MR GARRY: That's the way the house is situated. Page 36 - March 22~ 1991 Public Hearing - John F. Garry Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It's going tc remain unlighted and just the way it is. MR GARRY: Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We thank you very much for coming in, we'll see if there's anybody else that has any questions and hope to have a decision for you very quickly. Thank you sir~ Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of the application? is there anybody who would like to speak against the application? Questions from Board Members? None. Being no further questions I make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later. All in Favor - AYE. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I apologize for this sir. You sat h~re all night in great anticipation of this~ I'm not laughing at you I assure you~ I'm~ we received a letter postponing that. However l'm going to open it. So if you have anything that you would like state you are very welcome to. MR KEMPNER: Well I wrote a notice. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Just let me open the hearing first and then you can do something. The Chairman opened the hearing at 9:04 pm and read the notice of hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a site plan indicating this particular house as it exists and a house with the proposed additions and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Would you like to make your statement sir? Just state your name for the record if you would. MR KEMPNER: My name is Stanley Kempner. With regard to the variance application number 4009, by Alex Homa~ni and Charles Kapotes and others for permission to construct an addition to their property, we, Ann and Stan Kempner owners of the property adjoining to the south would like to enter into the record our objection to a specific item shown on the proposed construction details. We note that a letter dated January 28~ 1991, from Ward Associates to the Zoning Board includes a sketch indicating that the new leeching pool is to be installed approximately 55 feet from our private well. This well is our sole source of potable water. Page 5 of Page 37 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Alex Homa!runi, Charles Kapotes, and others Southold Z.B.A. MR KEMPNER, cont'd: Suffolk County Department of Health Services Standards for subsurface sewage disposal systems, for other than single family residences shows that septic tanks must be located at least 100 feet from a private well and that leeching pools must maintain a minimum distance of 150 feet from the well. We request that the location of a new underground sewage system be changed in order to comply with the above noted standards. That's our big concern. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We will definitely raise that issue when we reconvene the hearing and if need be we'll write a letter to the Health Department if we have to. MR. KEMPNER: I have spoken to them. They have spoken to Ward Associates, but there seems to be a little conflict of what they understood, Ward had told them it was a one family house and this could bring a I00 feet separation as required there, but they can bring it down to 65, with some exceptions. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is that true Bob? MR VILLA: Generally on an existing house, if they are renovating a system or adding to it, the policy has been that they are allowed to do it if provided they go no closer to existing wells and what's there already. I have a questio~ here too. Is this going to be a two family house? MS KOWALSKI: It is two family now. MR VILLA: If it's a tmo family house the system that's depicted on here, of a 900 gallon septic tank and a leeching pool, is only half the size that they would require. They would require an 1800 gallon septic tank and two leeching pools, so that it would expand the system even more. MR KEMPNER: My concern is the plan shows that they are going to have four bathrooms, two kitchens, two laundry rooms. So I mean that's a lot of water. MR VILLA: They would need a bigger sewage system, which would even impact the lot area more so. MR KEMPNER: But I would just like to see the new system put on the other side of the house. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well we thank you for coming in Mr. Kempner and we will definitely do the best we possibly can to assist you and I'm sorry that you had to wait here. MR KEMPNER: That's alright it was interesting. Page 38 - March 22, 1991 Public Hearing - Alex Homa!runi, Charles Kapotes, and others Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Hearing no further comment, I'll make a motion, well actually we are recessing it till May without a date. Ail in Favor - AYE.