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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-03/08/1991 HEARING TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS sPECIAL MEETING OF FRIDAY, MARCH 8, 1991 Board Members Present: Chairman Gerard P. Goehringer Members: Doyen, Grigonis, Dinizio and Villa Linda Kowalski, Z.B.A. Secretary and approximately 150 persons in the audience. Appl. No. 3970 Applicant(s): McDonald's Corporation Location of Property: South Side Main Road, Mattituck County T~x Map No.: 1000-122-7-3.1 The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:30 pm and read the notice of hearing and application for the record. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of the site plan. I have several site plans in the file. We will be presenting this site plan to the audience tonight to look at before any comment after the presentation. We will be taking a 5 or 10 minute recess and it will be placed back down here so everybody can digest it, for those persons who have not come into the office and looked at it. We have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Could the attorneys identify themselves? MR MINEO: Good evening Mr. Chairman, my name is Peter Mineo. I'm not sure if everybody can hear me, I won't bother to use the microphone. I'm the attorney for the applicant, McDonald's Corporation. My office is at 120 Mineola Blvd., Mineola. I have with me a number of consultants who will'be addressing the Board this evening and several consultants who will be available to answer any questions that the Board might have. The first to address the Board will be Ernest Annabel. He is a project engineer and he's from the McDonald's Corporation and he will in essence be submitting the maps and plans and the renderings that have been prepared. As a matter of fact three of the consultants will be submitting written reports or studies as well. Walter Dunn is a traffic engineer and he will be testifying nexu. He has also prepared a traffic impact study which will be submitted to the Board. Dr. Carl Figliola, who is the Chairman for the Department of Public Administration at C.W. Post and a member of Eagle Associates will address the Board concerning the economic and community impacts of the proposal and he likewise will be submitting the study. Timothy Page 2 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. M~ MINEO, cont'd: Barnes will be the last to address the Board. He is a ~eai Estate appraiser and he has likewise prepared a report in letter form to be submitted to the Board. Also present this evening and available to answer any questions that the Board might have are Judy Padsqucci~ a Real Estate representative of McDonald's; Randy Boch~ an operations consultant from McDonalds; and Stephen Fetdmen, the architect who prepared the plans~ the site plans that have been submitted to the Board. The premises will be described in greater depth by those that will follow me. Butt so that it can be located for the purpose of discussion~ it is situated at the South side of New York State Route 25 also known as Main Road, and it's east of Bray Ave. There is a frontage of 371 feet on Main Road. it runs all the way to Old Main Road and has a frontage of 317 feet on Old Main Road. It is currently vacant~ almost 3 acres of total area. It is situated entirely within the general business zoning district. McDonald's application is to construct a restaurant with a drive through window which requires two approvals from the Town. The first is a special exception permit for a fast food restaurant pursuant to building zone ordinance Article 10, Section 100-100b and in addition site plan approval from the Planning Board pursuant to building zone ordinance article 25~ Section 100-250. On February 5, 1991 the Planning Board acting as the lead agency pursuant to the State Environmental QUality Review Act made a determination of environmental significance° It first found that the proposed action was an unlisted action pursuant to SEQRA, and then went on to make what's known as the conditions negative declarations and the condition which is contained in the determination of significance related to traffic improvements or modifications~ and Mr. Dunn will discuss that in greater depth. It's is my understanding that the Board of Zoning and Appeals as an involved agency communicated with the Planning Board and indicated in a letter dated October !, 1990 some of its concerns-the things that the Planning Board should consider in making it's determination of environmental significance. The site plan from which the negative declaration was issued depicts a total of 83 off street parking stalls; 55 of which are to be installed immediately~ 28 will be land banked pursuant to building zone ordinance section 100-254 or in the event that it is approved by this Board and the Planning. A total of 65 off street parking stalls are required° If the Board has no questions from me from a legal stand points I would like to call Mr. Annabel to address the Board and to begin the description of the site. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I would just like to mention, Mr. Mineo, in about 35 minutes we will be taking a breaks if you Page 3 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN, cont'd: don't finish your presentation anyway. We will again place this site plan down for anybody to digest it and if need be, if people need extra time we will come back and do the same thing again. Just one question? Stan yes? STAN : Would it be possible for the speakers ~o use the microphones and so that you may have the benefit and also the people in the back may hear. Because it is very difficult to hear the speaker. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you, Stan. MR ANNABEL: Good evening, Mr. Chairman, and Board Members, my name is Ernest Annabel I'm with McDonald's Corporation, I'm a construction project manager and we have offices at 70 'East Sunrise Highway n Valley Stream. I want to just talk to you a little bit about the site as we have proposed to develop it and then a little bit about the building-the proposed architectual design of the building. As Mr. Mineo stated, the site is a 3 acre parcel which by most standards is a very large parcel for an application such as this. The building that we propose sits relatively at the center of this site. The building area is 3222 sq. ft., which represents approximately a 3% lot coverage which as you know is well below what would be required by code. The percentage of landscaped area is 59% that is the green areas that we will develop on this site will be 59% of the total parcel. Again that will far exceed what the code would normally require. The parking requirements are calculated based on one parking stall per 50 sq. ft. of building area, gross building area. In this case that would translate to 65 parking stalls. McDonalds feels for its purposes out here that it would not require 65 parking stalls but that 55 would be more appropriate. And in discussions with the Planning Board, the Planning staff, it was agreed that McDonalds would develop or propose to develop 55 parking stalls and thereby land banking not only the additional 10 that the code would require but in fact we would offer to land bank a total of 28 parking stalls. Just so that if the need in the future should arise in anyone's mind for additional.parking we would dedicate such land for that parking if that need should ever arise. However, we feel comfortable that 55 is an adequate number of stalls. That would bring the total capacity of parking on the site to 82 stalls. Again far beyond what would be required. Just to describe the site in a little further detail there are two driveways proposed on Main Road. An entrance driveway and an exit driveway. One way operations each. You would enter along the westerly driveway and traffic on the site would be one directional in a counterclockwise direction around the site. The parking Page 4 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR ANNABEL, cont'd: layout was designed again in as a result of discussions with the Planning staff as to what would be the best way to layout parking being that we did have alot of area to work with. We tried to come up with a scheme that was most efficient and most practical for a parcel as large as this and so you will see along the westerly property line that we have actually moved the parking away from the main traffic isle. Such that the traffic that intends to park in that area would not interfere with through traffic traveling around the building either for the drive-through service or to get around the building to exit the site. We have provided in the rear of the property a bus loading and unloading area. This was in response to concerns that potentia~!y a bus, whether it be a school bus or a tour bus or something that might enter the site and would not have a place to park and be out of the way of traffic. So it was felt that there may be a need for this and again we were willing to provide that and it is located at the rear site, you can see it on the site plan. I~ediately next to that is the out door trash corral which would be totally enclosed~ it would be a masonry structure 8 feet high actually in excess of 8 feet high, totally enclosed. It is normally designed to match the architectual style of the building. Again I would just stress that the amount of landscaping here, being that it is a large site, it's an extensive s~ount of landscaping, there are street trees proposed along Route 25 and trees also proposed along the rear property line as a buffer from Old Main Road~ That is pretty much all I have to say. MiR MINEO: Perhaps you could describe to the Board the provision for exterior lighting. MR ANNABEL: We have designed with the help of a lighting designer lot lighting for the site and it is shown on the site plan~ The poles will be 18 feet or 28 feet in height depending where they are located and they're designed in such a way as to light only our site. This is a concern that McDonalds has addressed in the past and there is a light fixture that we use that masks the light in any direction that you choose to. In such that the light would shine only on our site, only down onto our site and would not shine onto adjacent properties. MR MINEO: Has provision been made for emergency access to the site to other than Main Road? MR ANNABEL: Yes° We have done that. This was a concern raised during discussions with Planning staff as to how a emergency vehicle might enter the site without having to do it from Route 25 or at least having a second way should that Page 5 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR ANNABEL, cont'd: be necessary. We do have a provision for that coming off of Old Main Road. We would not pave this driveway but it would be there in some way. We figure we might use some kind of a paving stone or something so that a truck, an emergency vehicle could travel safely on it. However, it would be in a landscaped area and it would not be conducive to a customer or anybody else using it. It would strictly be there for emergency reasons. MR MINEO: Perhaps you could describe at this time the exterior design of the proposed restaurant. MR ANNABEL: There is rendering on your left showing what the proposed restaurant design is. ~CHAIRF~AN GOEHRINGER: Could you actually raise that to the next level, I don't know whether that is fixed within that area. MR MINEO: I have asked Mr. Annabel to speak loudly and to stand at the rendering because i think that will be more instructive to the Board and to those people that are interested in the application. MR ANNABEL: OK, this is the design that we are proposing, it is of course as you can tell not a standard-looking McDonalds by any means. We feel that we have responded to concerns that we have heard from the Town as far as designing a building that would be in keeping with the traditional flavor, if you will, of the area. In fact on my out here I took a good look at the building that was just constructed just to the east of us and I was pleased to find out that this is very much in keeping with the design used on that building. What we show here is a gabled roof design with four dog house dormers in the front. We were proposed to use a cedar siding, real wood cedar painted gray. Again this was in response to some feelings we heard about what color would be desirable. It would be painted kind of a driftwood gray and we would use a black or a charcoal colored shingle° Again giving it that kind of traditional feel. The windows would have these cross bar muttons that you see depicted here. It has this front porch overhang, again almost giving you the feeling that it's almost like a house. You know, more than a restaurant when you look at it. We also do not have any signage per say located on the building. These are our logo windows which are standard on most of our restaurants. We were asked if possible to remove the roof sign that you would normally see on McDonalds from the building. And we feel that a good way to accomplish that would be to put that sign or a sign in a landscaped area at Page 6 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR ANNABEL, cont'd: ground level, plant it and dress it up very nicely in a wood treatment that would compliment the building exterior. And this was discussed in some detail also with the Planning staff. The possibility of doing that. MR MINEO: Mr. Annabel~ How far set back from Main Road is the building? MR ANNABEL: I believe it is in excess of 140 feet set back from the building. From the Main Road. There are two reasons why we did that. The first is that we have a three acre site and we felt that would be a good compromise on this site. You have a lot of site to work with and that gives a nice curb side visibility of the store and the second reason is there is a significant difference in elevation from Route ' 25 to the center of the site° So we are accomplishing a by product of that is that we need to gradually traverse this increase in grade in order to get to the main elevation of the site. The restaurant will sit up on this site and that's two benefits I think of it being off set so far back° MR MINEO: I have no further questions for Mr. Annabel. If the Board has any questions? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: None at this time. Thank you. MR MINEO: Mr. Chairmanf I would like to call Walter Dunn. Name and address please. MR DUNN: Good evening, my name is Walter Dunn, from Dunn Engineering Associates. 66 Main Street, Westhampton Beachf NY. MR MINEO: Mr. Dunn, at my request did you prepare a traffic impact study for the proposed McDonalds? MR DUNN: Yes I did. MR MINEO: And have you also prepared a supplemental traffic impact study? MI{ DUNN: Yes I have. MR MINEO: Have you brought them with you this evening? MR DUNN: Yes I have. I would like to hand them to the Board. I'm sure the Board feels a little bit like I do. Generally on Friday nights we're winding do~ the work week, in fact, at this time I'm still in a happy hour down in Westhampton Beach. I'm going to try to make a brief Page 7 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR DUNN, cont'd: presentation rather then going through the whole document. My office looks very nice with all the greenery for the parade tomorrow in Westhampton Beach. In preparing the traffic impact study we contained really the methodology that we use in all typical traffic impact studies. We have also gone through a very detailed review for the internal traffic flow as well as the external traffic flow. The study has been reviewed by the Town Planning Department and by the Town's Consultant, Cramer Voorhees. They have done what I believe is a very thorough review. We have responded to the comments of Cramer Voorhees and we believe that we have satisfied all their comments. What I would like to do is just take a minute in terms of the external.traffic with the review of Cramer Voorhees. They agreed with the methodology that we used. In other words we used the standard type of a traffic impact study, however we make sure we collected the data during the summer time, being fully aware of the seasonal fluctuation of traffic flow. And we have designed the site, I looked at the need for the driveway locations, the design of the driveway locations as well the need for any external improvements. We faced that all upon the worst case conditions of the traffic during the summer time. Second what we have done, I would jus~ like ~o lead you through a little bit of the internal traffic flow Mr. Annabel has described the situation. We set up a one- way operation as he described with the westerly driveway being the entrance and comihg back around the site there is room for the drive through operation and the easterly driveway being the two lane operation having a separate left turn lane or exit lane and a separate right turn exit lane. In terms of the site we have designed the lay out of the drive through so that it will accommodate at least 7 vehicles stacked in a line. Now predominantly what we have found in the studies of other McDonalds through the Metropolitan area is that once vehicles get up to about 7 in line it is situation that we generally go through when we you go to a bank. Once you get on a line you see that it's going to be longer waiting in line then going inside, you get out of your car and go insLde. So it is kind of a balancing effect. We really have not seen except in some rare occasions the traffic going greater then 7 in a stacking lane. The operation is set up to be very efficient. I would like to stress that to the Board. The McDonald's operation is based on approximately 40% of the traffic going into the site utilizing the drive through. It is really based in part on convenience ~o the customer. It functions extremely well, we have designed the site so that it doesn't interfere with the flow of traffic. It is a separate bypass lane to go around it so it's not backing up or inconveniencing any of the other onsite traffic. I would be hapl~y to go over any other points Page 8 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.Ao MR DUN/q, cont'd: internally but some of the major aspects that we say is that we have presented the project and the detailed reports to the New York State Department of Transportation° They are currently reviewing it as part of Cramer Voorhees' project they have more or less said that the Town would go on the basis of whatever the requirements D.O.T. is. It takes a long time to review it we understand within the next couple of weeks they will be finishing up their review and I would like to emphasize again that whatever external roadway improvements that the State has we will obviously have to comply with it. We believe we set up a good design for both the internal and external flow of traffic. Our examinations have shown that there are sufficient gaps based upon having the two separate driveways to accommodate the vehicles particularly left turns out of the site and left turns into the site. The main other aspect that I would like to point out is what could be on the site besides a McDonald's operation. In a supplemental report that I have handed out you can see that we have four different tables in there that look at three other alternative uses. The first alternative use that is permitted on this site is a mixed convenience store and a retail use. If we look at that table we'll see that this combined use will generate substantially more traffic then a proposed McDonald's restaurant during the am and pm peak week day hours as well as a Saturday peak hour. During the am peak weekday hour the convenience store use will generate nearly five times more traffic than the proposed McDonalds. Furthermore, the convenience store will generate over four times the traffic during the pm peak week day hour as well as over three times the traffic during the Saturday hour. Now the second use that we looked at was to eliminate the convenience store and have a fully available retail development on the site. In this case the proposed McDonalds restaurant will generate the same number of cars during the am peak hour as the alternative permitted use of what we have shown of the 22000 sq ft retail stores° In other words we haven't just picked these numbers out of the air~ but we have looked at particularly what could go on this site to meet the code of the Town of Southold. During the pm peak highway hour the retail stores would generate more then double the traffic then the proposed McDonalds. Furthermore~ during the Saturday peak hour the retail store will generate approximately 139 more trip ends per hour than the proposed McDonalds restaurant. The reason we are making these comparison is that it can be seen that there a~e other permitted uses that can be developed on this site and will have an equal or greater traffic impact than a McDonalds restaurant° Thus the proposed use of the McDonalds restaurant will not have a greater traffic impact~ will not Page 9 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR DUNN, cont'd: have a greater impact on safety and accidents than the other permitted uses. I. think that is an important aspect. What was shown in a nut shell by our comprehensive report is that the site with the McDonalds on it will have no adverse traffic impact based upon the design of the interior of the facility and the proper design of the driveways. In terms of the sufficiency of the stacking lane the 7 spaces that we have that vehicles can stack is more than sufficient to handle the needs of the McDonalds. Even under the heaviest and peak hours of the McDonald's operation. Again I would like to stress the human aspect of us all waiting in line that our observations have confirmed that once it gets up to the maximum that we are saying can be accommodated, people will get out of their cars and walk inside and then come out again. In terms of the adequacy of 'parking as Mr. Annabel had explained before, we are providing more parking than is required by the code. In fact we are following the guidance in proposing to land bank a number of spaces. If there is a need for more spaces, we will come back and provide additional spaces. In conclusion I will be happy to address the Board and any of your questions that you may have. Obviously we are ready at any time you would like to meet. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Mr. Dunn, concerning the specific area where the drive-up or drive-through window is to be placed and I assume that is on the east side of the building. It's not so designated and I know that you didn't necessarily do the engineering of the building and that you are more or less doing the ground engineering. It's indicating on the plan that it's approximately 24 feet in width plus 10 feet 10 inches which is about 34 feet. The parking spaces are slanted as so indicated on the site plan. Do you feel that that is an adequate amount of width to accommodate through traffic and for the possibility of all those cars backing out? MR DUNN: Yes. In my professional opinion it's more than adequate. In fact, what we have done here as you can see, is first, we have made a separate lane for the drive through of a width greater then a car width of 10 foot 10 inches and the 24 foot aisle is really meeting the Town's code, but what we have found is with the angled parking spaces you could go down to a 16 foot wide lane, in fact most of the Towns and Villages on Long Island permit that in a case of angled parking. So by providing a 24, the 24 is handling the worst case situation of right angle parking. The vehicles can accommodate particularly the angle that it's laid out with, So we see that there would be no problem with the interference of either the flow of traffic or the drive Page 10 - March 8~ 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A~ 5~ DUNN, cont'd: through operation. We believe that the drive through operation has been designed to make sure there is no traffic impact internally in the adverse traffic impact. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: In reference to the place where the speaker post is or the menu is supposed to be placed or proposedly placed. Is this a traditional place for all McDonalds to be placed? Primarily in the rear of the building? MR DUNN: I would be happy to draw that question to an operations person. Our observations is that they have tried to locate the speaker so that it is most convenient and does not interfere with the operation of stacking so that they 'could have the maximum stacking and the maximum efficiency of a lane operation. CHAIRMluN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Any other questions? MR DUNN: By the way if there was a problem that you perceived it can be moved somewhat to go inside. But I would like to defer that to the operation's people. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Jim, Did you have a question? MR DINIZIO: Yes. In reference to the stacking where would the, could you point out to me where the bumper of the last car would be if there were 7 cars there? MR DUNN: What we do is because you can see I think it's best when we come in with the stacking lane, the stacking comes in this matter and it comes into it separate, it is actually separated as you go around the back of the building from the parking spaces. So essentially again, also with the aisle coming in, there is an island here so that anyone parking on the west side of the building would not be interfering with the through flow of traffic going around the building in this counterclockwise direction. What we have provided is some space in here if there is ever bus operations. In all frankness, I rarely see a bus operation coming into a McDonald's site. But the Town had some concern and we provided space for the bus operation. Under the worst case situation we have a space for the bus to park. My feeling they may pull a little further away and let everybody get out and then get out of the way and try to go around the other side if they were using that technique. None the less we provided it. In essence by counting this 7 we would stop somewhere in this area here so the rear of the bumper is all within the sheltered area as we are going around. That is Page 11 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR DUNN, cont'd: based upon having a length of vehicle between 18 and 20 feet long so that we could accommodate that number around it. Obviously in this situation if there was no bus it could go way out beyond that to the end. So we think we have designed to make sure that we don't have any problems with that drive through operation. I must admit I have been working with McDonalds on a number of projects and they all seem to listen to our recommendations on the internal as well as the external traffic because it really enhances their operations. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. MR DINIZIO: Could you tell me. I've worked across the street from McDonalds so... MR DUNN: In Riverhead? MR DINIZIO: Yes. Sometimes they don't get the food out and they tell the cars to move up forward. Is there any kind of provision here for having cars parked waiting for food that hasn't arrived yet? With the exception of at the window? MR DUN/q: I think again that's not really coming from the expertise of a traffic background. I would like to defer that to operations people. Perhaps I could have Ernie explain that now. MR ANNABEL: The answer to that is that it never happens at McDonalds. I would answer that by saying that McDonald's site planning manual does not allow us to design that in for that very reason. We do not teach our people that there is a space there that people can wait for their order. From time to time it comes up as a concern and we try to alleviate that concern. So if that is a concern of this Board we have plenty of room in this landscaped area here where we could cut in what we call a grill space to accommodate that. But the reason it is not here is we are not allowed toby McDonald's standards design that in. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Who are we deferring these questions to? The engineer? MR DINIZIO: I just want to know the land banking of the parking spaces. If you were to put them in, where would they MR ANNABEL: They are shown in this site plan in a hash line fashion. They are shown along the west property line and there are some additional ones shown in the rear there. Page 12 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southotd ZoB.Ao MR ANNABEL~ cont'd: These rear ones would be accommodated by, I mean it would require some site modification to do it. But we have proven to ourselves and the Planning staff that we could make these work by creating an aisle back to these. In fact the aisle itself is shown dashed also. Even should those parking stalls ever be developed, they would still be in accordance with required buffers. MR VILLA: Gerry, I have a question. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Go ahead Bob. MR VILLA: I'm still a little bit confused on the stacking areas. The stacking area from the pick up window or from the area where you place your order? MR ANNABEL: That's a very good question because there is some variation in those two numbers. It's a good question because there is stacking and there is stacking depending on what piece of information you want to know. Now McDonalds again let me just tell you what we would normally design for is 7 to 8 car stacking from the window service. Now when Walters Mr. Dunn, was eluding to the 7 car stacking he is eluding from the ordering area. We actually have 7 cars measured from the ordering area back to this cut out where the stacking lane begins. But from the ordering area forward is also important to use because those cars are still involved in the operation. All they have done back here is ordered their food they need to then drive up and you will see at our newer locations there are actually two windows, you pay at the first window, you pick up your food at the Second window. That is a more efficient way of doing things and we found that to be very successful. There is an additional five cars minimally and I haven't measured it to be honest with you but just looking at it of additional stacking that we normally call stacking so I think you could depending on whose asking the questions we could say we have 12 car stacking here. But we have approximately 7 from the speaker post back and at least another 5 from the speaker post forward. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Any other questions Bob? MR VILLA: Yes. If you have 7 cars stacked up from the ordering post it means then that some of the people are parking and actually walking through those cars to get to the building? MR ANNABEL: I can address that° That can happe~ in certain situations. We have, there is an entrance doorway here at Page 13 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR ANNABEL, cont'd: the part of the building where people can choose to enter the building from that area without crossing the drive through operation. But it would be a true statement that there is another entrance door along the side here that people would cross the drive through lane to do. It's not an uncommon thing and normally these vehicles are basically stopped and people usually make that maneuver quite safely. However you can, you are not forced to do that on this lay out. This front entrance here where you see the sidewalk shown would really allow you access without having to cross that. CHAIrmAN GOEHRINGER: OK. Alright. MR ANNABEL: Name and address ~lease? DR FIGLIOLA: Carl Figliola, P.W. Post College, Chairman, Department of Public's Administration also a Consultant in the area of Government Relations and a I~ember o~ Eagle Associates. MR ANNABEL: Dr. Figliola, have you prepared a economic and community impact study? DR FIGLIOLA: Yes I have. Mt{ ANNABEL: Can you submit it to the Board please. Dr. Figliola perhaps you could summarize to the Board and to those people that are here this evening the study that you have prepared. DR FIGLIOLA: Sure. Our study is a study of both economics as well as community impact and we felt there are several questions that we wanted to take a look at. The site selection, why this particular site? Whether the site selection is a economically wise decision both in terms of the community as well as in terms of McDonalds? What would be the great impact in terms of it? First let me just go to the selection of this particular site. Why here? There is the McDonalds you mentioned in terms of Riverhead. Why east between here and Orient Point and based on the way we look at the demographics and the way we looked in terms of the economic advantages. This is a fairly good site because you have a population base. You have zoning that permits it. You have places of employment. You have locations in terms of shopping areas and schools. McDonalds, if McDonalds were to come in i guess one concern that people raise is, is will it attack other quick service restaurants? We don't believe so because, let me explain a couple of reasons why we don't believe so first of all. This is a unique area it's North Page 14 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. DR FiGLiOLA, cont'd: Fork it's not Riverhead, it's not a hub~ it's not a central location. McDonatds represents in the area of quick service restaurants 36% of the market. If there were another such chain restaurant here we would have to reevaluate the decision itself but since there is not we are able to take a look at it and the fact that we will be here will also be a decision factor for others to take a look at and so. It's not necessarily one that it's going to create now° Is there a market niche. McDonalds does have a unique product° It does not negatively impact in terms of other t~v-pes of businesses. Delicatessens for example. So that we don't see a negative impact in terms of other types of restaurants because one will go to a diner~ one will go to a restaurant for a particular type of mealo On the other hand one will go to a McDonalds or some other type of quick ' service restaurant for a different menu. That's one consideration. I think it's a rather important consideration~ $econdly~ given the economic climate~ McDonalds being a very large and successful corporation it does have the economic and financial strength to handle the downturns in the economy. Today as you probably all heard the public record in terms of unemployment it's 6.5%. That does not take into consideration the numbers of people who are no longer in the job market which is probably going to total that up to nearly 12% at this point in time. Retail sales are still down. The area in terms of real estate is not as stable. So a business like McDonalds coming into a community provides stability in terms of the location and provides certain economic benefits. The question becomes and we address this in some detail in the report whether the alternatives in terms of what can you do with this particular site. You could put in without asking for any special variances a 26000 sq ft retail store. But given the fact that right now in retail locations you have more than 20% vacancy. That doesn't really seem quite possible. You could do an office building but again you have more than 20% vacancy in office buildings. You could put in a combination retail and convenience store. That would create a convenience store that could stay open 24 hours~ serving other types of beverages that may be less than desirable. Looking at the alternatives this becomes a alternative that fits well within the plan. In terms of economic contributions, McDonaids will be adding approximately 75 jobs to the community. We'll have an annual payroll of about $500,000. When you look at paying individuals and they go out and purchasing in other stores that has a multiply which at conservatively is twice that so that by having an employee now getting a paycheck and going into a retail store or a food chain. You actually have a one million dollar impact in terms of the economic depository° On that $500~000 that will Page 15 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. DR FIGLIOLA, cont'd: be generated in terms of employment it will also generate $80,000 a year personal income tax. It will pay as a business profiting $7,500 a year in property tax. Half of that goes into the community schools. In terms of sales tax, this McDonalds will generate over $140,000 year on sales that will be about 1.8 million. In short McDonalds represents in many ways given the different alternatives a smart decision. Given the economic benefits that it can bring into a community. A decision that has benefits for a whole host of people. Both in terms of the corporation as well as community people. We have strongly recommended to McDonalds the selection of this site. Thank you. CHAIRMAN~GOEHRINGER: Dr. could I just ask you before you leave and no way am i questioning your credentials but I just wanted tO.o Would you normally do feasibility studies for lending institutions also? That are looking to finance projects such as this? DR FIGLIOLA: Would we do it for a lending such as a bank? cHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes DR FIGLIOLA: We have not. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The only reason why I ask that question is do you work specifically for McDonalds? DR FIGLIOLA: No I do not. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What percentage of your business would normally be done on the bases of... I know that you are a professor and so on and so forth. I'm talking about you mentioned Eagle Associates or something of that nature. DR FIGLIOLA: Well we do government relations work and we represent a series of other clients. We will look in terms of business itself? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes. DR FIGLIOLA: I would say it's a minority share of my business. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank ~ou very much. I appreciate it. MR VILLA: Dr. Figliola, there has been some indication here that you are trying to show that if McDonalds doesn't go in that there can be a worse scenario. Page 16 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southoid Z.B.A~ DR FIGLIOLA: Yes° MR VILLA: You came out and said that McDonalds would create 75 jobs and $500,000 payroll. What about these other options? Did you do any kind of a study as to what they would generate in the way of income or taxes? DR FIGLIOLA: Given the fact that the economy right now has a pretty significant vacancy rate. The probability of having somebody come in right now and put up a retail complex. We would have more than 20% of that space vacant means that it would not be feasible at this point and time. 5~ VILLA: You are just saying at this time it is not feasible. There is no comparison at this time. DR FIGLIOLA: No comparison at this time. MR VILLA: OK. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you very much Dr. it was a pleasure. Mr. Mineo it is a cross just past the 45 minute mark. What I might ask you if it's not in an inconvenience to you and the people that came with you is possibly move the easel over to this side so that we could utilize the jury box and let people who are standing in the back who have to sit down during the break. At this particular time with everyone's indulgence we will take approximately a 5 or 7 minute recess at which time we will furnish the public with a copy of the site plan which we will place down here. All in Favor - AYE. 8:23pm CHAIRMAi~ GOEMRINGER: Ladies and gentlemen it was brought to my attention that some people are still having trouble hearing. We do have four or five seats left in the jury box if anybody would like to come up here there would be a ring side seat. We have moved the easel to the opposite side. Is there anybody who would like to utilize this up here? Ok. Mr. Mineo? MR MINEO: Mr Chairman the last witness to address the Board will be Timothy Barnes. MR BARNES: Good evening. I also have hand outs that I know the Board is so looking forward to receiving. Good evening Members of the Board. My name is Timothy Barnes, 20 Hamilton Street in Sayvilte. I'm a Real Estate Appraiser and the Managing Director of Marchitetli, King, Barnes & Associates, Inc., Appraisers and Real Estate Consultants. I have been Page 17 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR BARNES, cont'd: asked to address certain questions primarily concerning this application from a planning and a Real Estate stand point. Particularly with a view to the effect that this application or the proposed application of construction might have on surrounding properties on the general character of the area in particular and the value, viability and habitability of the adjoining properties. have reviewed and I won't bore you with explaining again the nature of the application. I would stress from a Real Estate stand point and a planning stand point this is an extremely low density use of the site. In my experience I have never come across the construction of a 3,000 sq ft building on 3 acres of land in the past. But of course that has worked to the advantage of the applicant and I think to the co~unity as well. Because it has made it possible for them to put in · the number of onsite safe guards that are not typically possible on more crowded sites. This is a site that is currently zoned business B or rather general business. Some of the onsite measures that have been taken, extensive landscaping which from a value stand point of the effect on the surrounding community is very important because it provides a soru of screening that I think any adjoining property, commercial or residential would appreciate. Certain things one for instance at my suggestion the refuse corral that was mentioned early was moved from the southeast corner of the site to the point where it is now which is about 150 feet from the nearest property line. That's another luxury not every site affords but this site did. Some people address the question of light and sound emissions. Again the size of the site tends to minimize the effect that this on site emissions would have on surrounding properties. The property's immediate environment can best be described as a mixed use area but primarily a somewhat developed highway commercial area. I stress a highway commercial area because this is as distinct from what we would call in the Real Estate trade central business district. What people just think of as downtown, as the hamlet. This is somewhat removed, approximately a mile to the west of the hamlet of Mattituck. Anyone driving along this stretch as I have thousands of times car immediately appreciate the difference between what they see on both sides of the road up until the point where the road bends north and then back east where you actually enter the hamlet. This is a use that uypically one associates with a highway commercial location as opposed to a hamlet location. I would suggest to the Board and if I may have your indulgence I will read the · preamble to the general business section of the code. Section 100 Chapter 100. The general business district is to provide for retail and wholesale commercial develoDing and limited office and industrial development outside of the Page 18 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold ZoB.A. MR BARNES, cont'd: hamlet central business areas. Generally along major highways, it is designed to accommodate uses that benefit from large numbers of motorists that need fairly large parcels of land and that may involve characteristics such as heavy trucking and noise. From that stand point quite honestly I think this use is not only compatible but I think the code is doing it's job here. This is a very large parcel that experiences as much traffic exposure probably as any parcel east of Riverhead. And this it seems to me is a perfectly legitimate use. Now while I've said that the area is suitable for ito That does not necessarily mean that there is going to enter into this area an unlimited number of competitors that's of course how these things work. The permitted uses and the application here as of permitted use as it is subject to your review and a special use permit, has 'been permitted for some time in this location and in some similar highway commercial locations in the Town of Southold. Nothing has changed to entice McDonalds to enter into the market. McDonalds did so simply because from a business stand point they feel that they have determined that the demand now exists sufficiently for their product to make a profit. I don't think it follows from that. That now any or dozens of competitors will necessarily spring up around them. The economics have to make sense. There has to be an economic and population base to sell the hamburgers and the like products too. It is not a zoning matter that would invite this sort of use into the area. The Board of course is charged with the responsibility of regulating these applications and if I may paraphrase your own coder so as to determine that they will not prevent the orderly and reasonable use of an adjoining property not adversely affect safety, health, wealth, and comfort. That they will be in harmony of the purposes of the code and compatible with the surroundings~ I would say briefly I think that I have some familiarity from a professional stand point~ where some of the features of the Town of Southold that make it the unique place it is. I was retained and have in the past appraised for open space acquisition purposes a number of the most notable parcels in the Town that have been acquired in recent years. I will mention the Orient Point property that use~to have the old hotel on it at the ferry dock. I was also the Countys' appraiser for Robins Island and their on going attempts to acquire the property~ I appraised for the appropriation, all the wetlands located along the Long Beach Bay for the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation as well as some Richmond Creek wetlands, so I think I know something certainly from a professional stand point and as a viewer from an amateur stand point about the open space character of the Town° That's obviously a voidable thing to preserve and I think to the extent that Page 19 -March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southotd Z.B.A. Mi{ BARNES, cont'd: that that can be preserved and still support a certain amount of development. A 3% lot coverage of this sort is exactly in the spirit of the Town code. It's also in the spirit of the County Health laws Article 7 and 12 which have been put in place to regulate water usage, discharge and the like and this application is perfectly in keeping with all of those regulations. I don't believe that the construction of the restaurant really can have any negative impact on the value of surrounding properties. Quite honestly from a planning stand point for a highway commercial district this area has a way to go. We all know what it looks like as you drive through. There are alot of older free standing co~uL~ercial properties; a number of gas stations, What North Fork Bank has done with that building is an improvement, I remember the old building, but again I don't think this Ks an area that is demeaned by the presence of a low density restaurant. As far as some of the other safe guards, I mentioned light and noise, the property is not in close proximity to any schools, churches, parks. I don't see where any passive uses of that sort would be in anyway affected. I mentioned the safe guards that have been put in place in terms of water usage, discharge. I don't see that any public utilities can be in any way strained or over strained by this application. A number of people have mentioned what could be done as of right on this site. I would stress again that 26000 sq ft building that was shown on someones rendering over there could be 26000 sq ft of office space which under your own code would then require 260 parking spaces. This is an application with 55 parking spaces and 3000 sq ft of building. It is not as of right which is subject to your review, but from the stand point of the effect on property values and from its appropriateness from the planning stand point I see nothing in this application that's objectionable. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you very much sir. Any questions to this gentlemen? Board Members? Not at this time thank you. 5IR MINEO: That completes our presentation, Mr. Chairman, if the Board has any questions throughout the balance of the hearing, we'tl hold ourselves available. CHAIRM3~N GOEHRINGER: I have a few questions. I just wondered if that rendering could be placed back on top of the easel so that we could refer to it. MR MINEO: Sure. The site? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes. Mr. Mineo, I have spent a great Page 20 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing ~ McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN, cont'd: deal of time in the Northeast corridor and in communities like the great Town of Southold and communities' even a more agrarian and areas of smaller population and although it is not my job to prejudge an application and i have not prejudged this application~ and I have been asked in particular by one of the persons associated with you if I was against this application~ I ~m not necessarily against this application and I will read a specific statement from Secretary of State we use as a basic handbook so to speak in zoning, before we get into the actual comment period. There is one thing however that I do have a tremendous problem with. That is, we have a site that is zone B-it is commercial site everything to the east is zoned of commercial nature-everything to the west of it is on a commercial nature. However across the street we have residential zoning and I am referring to the south, and to the immediate west toward Bray Ave, we have a non-conforming house. We also have a fairly narrow island at this point between the Sound and the Bay and we have a substantial amount of houses on Bray Aves we have a substantial amount of houses on Sigsbee Road and we have a substantial amount of houses on Peconic Bay Blvd. My basic problem is that of the speaker post and talking into the speaker phone and then having the person who is in McDona!ds come back and ask you if you want fries or whatever the additional normal rhetoric that comes out and again i'm not in any way charging this in a pro or a con fashion. I had mentioned this to your consultant Mr. Raynor way back and I have also mentioned it to other people on my Board that I cannot live with a speaker of that nature of which you speak into and then they come back out on a very~ very calm evening that probably could be heard for a mile and a half and i'm being~ having lived in a proximity of this and grown up in a proximity of this particular site it is one of my upse~ments and my question is really a two-fold one. Would you or your clients be willing to construct this restaurant without a drive through window or could you in some way solve this particular dilemma assuming myself and my Board Members would be willing to vote in favor of this particular project so to speak? And in no way are we taking a yes or no vote at this time. I will again very simply charge the public with what I construe to be a special exception after we finish these particular areas. Yes? MR MINEO: The answer to the first part of the question. Whether or not McDonalds would consider constructing the restaurant without a drive through window the answer is no. As far as the second portion of the question relating to the ability to remedy what you perceive to be as a problem I would first like to have that question addressed so that you Page 21 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR MINEO, cont'd: are comfortable with the fact that it will not be a problem and perhaps we could go on to discuss what might be done. The good news about decibel readings is that they are subject to almost mathematical certain. There are any nun~ber of studies that have been done that will indicate that approximately 80 feet which is the distance in this case from the nearest property line that the decibel reading is very very low and that's with the McDonalds speaker box at what's known as mid range. Now Mr. Annabel perhaps can discuss it in greater detail then I can, but at the very least there can be a further reduction of the speaker box volume so that the decibel reading at the property line which is not to say at the nearest house by the way, is even lower. I believe that we can resolve that issue. Whether or not there's anyway to modify the site so that the speaker box is ' farther away or other type of devices are used I can't say. Perhaps Mr. Annabel can address that, but I think the threshold question is whether or not it actually is a problem and studies have shown that it is not. I don't know that we have that data here this evening but since the Board is not going to make a decision this evening we could certainly submit it on very short order. Mr. Annabel, do you have anything to add to that? MR MINEO: We will submit for the Board further documentation concerning the speaker boxes and what we might be able to do to reduce it. We will alsb see if there is anyway to relocate it. I don't know that that is the case. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The other thing, Mr. Mineo, before we are to get into the other area and that is this Board has also traveled quite extensively in looking at, searching out other particular restaurants of this type and of course in this particular situation we would limit it mainly to McDonald's restaurants. Now I know you recently constructed one in Middle Island, you recently constructed one in Miller Place, and so on and so forth. All I assume apart from the architecture that they are traditional McDonald's restaurants. Are there any that have been constructed in the Northeast corridor that do not have drive through windows? Can you get that information for us? MR MINEO: We probably can answer that question this evening. MR ANNABEL: There is, I don't have the exact numbers but I can answer it and say that there probably are or is a small percentage of McDonald's restaurants today without drive through windows. That usually happens in a case where there was a pre-existing restaurant possibly long before the drive through concept was ever invented and site restrictions at Page 22 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southo!d Z.B.Ao MR ANNABEL, cont'd: that location would prohibit us from having a drive through, either the property is not large enough or the lease for whatever reason wouldn't allow it or something of that nature. McDonalds will not and has not for quite sometime gone ahead with building a new restaurant without the drive through. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You will supply us with that information? Where these are? MR ANNABEL: We can. Yes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I wanted primarily in the rural areas. I think the most Metropolitan area-where I have seen a McDonalds that I thought was very very traditional was in Freeport, Maine. MR MINEO: That was a historic restoration. I might point out that in a recent historic restoration that McDonald's has undertaken in New Hyde Park, Town of North Hempstead, that an historic house was let's say retro-fitted with the drive through window because the Board recognized that it's an intrical part of the matter in which restaurants of this type do business and I think the Board has an opportunity to see that particular restoration. I think you would be favorably impressed. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Could you give us the address of that one? MR MINEO: It's 2045 Jericho Turnpike in New Hyde Park, it's the Cormer Denton House. Mr. Denton was the Supervisor in the Town of North Hempstead about 100 years ago. I might also point out to the Board that in Mr. Barnes' reading of the purpose clause for the business B zoning district clearly indicates a legislative intent that the type of uses that are most appropriate to that district-those uses which the Town Board saw to encourage-relied heavily upon motor vehicles. That dovetails very neatly with what McDonalds is proposing to do with the drive through window. I believe that we will be able to satisfy your concerns concerning the decibel readings for the speaker posts. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I thank you very much for your presentation, sir. I don't know how you are going to handle the remaining portion of this meeting maybe what we will do is probably address four or five of the residents and then if you want to address them or if you want to indicate to me that you want to address them, give me the "hi sign" or whatever. As for the residents there was some concern Page 23 - March 8, i991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A- CHAIRMAN, cont'd: concerning how this project came to be as you are well aware that on January 10, 1989 through a comprehensive master plan, the Town Board of the Town of Southold adopted a master plan of which this was one of the zones. The zone since the inception of the period of time that I have been coming to Mattituck, and I am a resident of Mattituck, has been business zoned since I can ever remember and I have been coming out here since 1948 when I was a year old. Quite honestly around the mid-fifties I had always remembered it to be business zoned:. I had always to remember it to be wooded. Secondly, I just want to mention for the public there have been many misconceptions concerning our particular end of this project and that is this. This is not a variance application, the Zoning Board of Appeals has a two-fold purpose. Yes true we do grant variances, this is not a variance application. This is an application for a special exception which is used synonymously with the words special permit. I read from a text that Gail Schafer has prepared for us that we use as a hand book and it says the difference between the two is substantial, the granting of a special exception does not entail the making of an exception to the ordinance but rather permitting certain uses which the ordinance authorizes under stated conditions. In other words a special exception is one that is allowable when the facts and circumstances specified in the ordinance is being those upon which the exception permitted are found to exist. Unlike a variance a special exception does not involve the varying of the ordinance but the compliance with it. That is what we are looking at, ladies and gentlemen tonight. Secondly, I would ask you-for the real basis of cost-cutting measures, we no longer have a court reporter; and it becomes a little difficult for the person that does the transcribing- who does an excellent job transcribing-to catch everyone's name. We are going to ask you to voluntarily come up after you have spoken and sign in with your address so that we have everybody's testimony along with their name even though you are spelling your name into the mic because I'm going to ask you for that also, because we have to go back and reduce this entire meeting to a fixed hard copy. The next issue is that of courtesy, I have to conkmend organizations like the North Fork Environmental Council and other organizations that have spoken before this group, this Board so to speak, as being extremely courteous and t expect everyone to be as courteous to your neighbors as you are to the Board and to the gentlemen and ladies that come before us tonight. Thirdly, if there is a spokesperson for a specific group we sincerely - appreciate that you would ask that person to speak on behalf of your group and lastly I again have no intention and I'm recommending to my Board Members to hold this hearing off until April 5, which is another Thursday or Friday evening in Page 24 - March $~ 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold CHAIRMAN, cont'd: the first part of April and I have all intentions of recessing it giving the Board time to digest everything that has been received tonight and secondly time to definitely go to New Hyde Park and look at this particular building that has been just constructed° We are open for all opinion and any controversial issues that may concern you we ask you only to present them in the most expeditious manner. I will now ask if there is anybody else, anybody who is in favor of this project that would like to speak? MR ARANEO: My name is William Araneo. I'm a resident of Mattituck. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Board in my opinion, this is a matter of economics~ and the balance of development and economics. The taxes in the Town are not decreasing, it~s becoming increasingly more difficult for people to live in our community, it's essential that we restrict development but sensibly. It's also essential that we enable people to develop property that they have purchased and have legitimate reasons to develop to do soo I don't see any relief in sight for taxes to decrease and the only way to do it is to encourage business/and or housing. ! think that the Town in it's infinite wisdom does a tremendous job in both areas. I think you are protecting our community righteously. I think that there is increasing evidence that there is a~ this is a special permit and it has nothing to do with the emotions of quote unquote changing our Town. Thank you very much. CHAIttMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Mr. Araneo. Could I just ask you if you wouldn't mind to place this down here. I know this is a little awkward asking you to sign in but it is a problem it's saving us $650. Thank you so much sir° You can leave it right down there. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this project? I would like to have a show of hands in favor sir° You are welcome to use the speaker the microphone on either side° It doesn't make any difference. Thank you again sir. MR SCHWARTZ: My n~me is Benja Schwartz and I'm an attorney in Riverheado I used to be in the culinary field before I was an attorney and at one point I lived around the corner from McDonalds and I actually tried working there just to see how, what it was likeo I think first I would like to compliment the Board, I think you are doing a wonderful job of handling this particular application. Second, I would like to say that I think that this is a very significant event for the Town of Southotd. No where else in my life have I been where they measured time by a hundredth of a second. When I worked in McDonalds they were p~ying me by how many hundredths of a second I worked. It wasn't a whole Page 25 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MI{ SCHWARTZ, cont'd: lot for a hundredth of a second. So I do think that this is significant although possibly not in this particular specific. This one McDonalds is not going to change the nature of the Town of Southold, but Southold is changing and this is an indication and I hope that the Board and the people who are here tonight will consider what kind of responses might be appropriate so that we can guarantee that other fast food chains, Burger King, etc. won't be across the street at least we can space them out through zoning. We can tax drive-ins and I, the last point if I could make drive-ins I think we don't need half the ones we have, the banks step drive-ins should be taxed too and they should reduce the number of them it's an abomination that we are an automobile dependent culture. This was at the root of our problems in the Middle East and it's not doing anything ~to solve it~ CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you again Mr. schwartz. Again is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of the application? On this side of the room which is my left, is there anybody on this side who would like to speak against the application? Yes mam, in the back of the room, would you kindly come up and use the microphone if you wouldn't mind, at your leisure. Thank you. MS HALSEY: Thank you. Good evening gentlemen. I'm Cynthia Halsey. I live at 50 Oaklawn Ave and that is three doors from the Town Hall. I would like to speak to what you might call the hamburger fall out. I live on Main Road and frequently I will find on my grass in my hedge and one time even on my front porch the evidence that there is a McDonalds in Riverhead. Sometimes I'm fortunate and these bags are empty. Sometimes I'm very unfortunate and they are not. The contents are sometimes in deplorable condition owing to the attentions I suspect of the neighborhood cats. Possibly the neighborhood raccoons. I don't see why I and people around me, of whom I think there are more than one should be trash collectors for a hamburger franchise. Also leave it to raccoons they probably carry the ticks that carry lyme disease. I don't like the idea of vermin passing through my grounds and possibly endangering me and othe~ people who might come there too. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRtNGER: Thank you. Could I just ask you to sign in if you wouldn't mind. Thank you so much I'm sorry about this. MS HALSEY: That's alright. $650? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody else again on my left Page 26 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. CHAIP~4AN, cont'd: that would like to speak? Yes Jeanne? MRS MARINER: Jeanne Mariner from Mattituck speaking both as a private citizen and also a Director of Save the Bays° As a resident of Mattituok I would just like to say that the proposed McDonalds is certainly not needed in Mattituck and most definitely not in the best interest of the public health~ safety and welfare of the residents of Mattituck. We have enough traffic problems on our two lane Main Road right now without adding more. We are definitely not a highway there either. We also have enough fast food places with all the deli's and restaurants currently available. To grant a special exception would certainly not be in keeping with the purpose of the Board of Appeals to act in the best interest of the residents and might set a precedent. If you deny the ~special exception your decision will certainly be legally defensible as you will be acting to protect the health, safety and welfare of the residents. And speaking for the Bays ! would like to note that Save the Bays Members are involved in several beach cleanups of the Bay beaches in Mattituck and the most frequent and steady stream of litter we find are cups with the McDonald's logo. Gentlemen, we have enough garbage on our beaches and roads along the Bay from the two Riverhead McDonalds without adding another one to contribute more and I really believe the people of Mattituck are tired of being the dumping area in the Town of Southold. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Jeanne. Jeanne could I just ask you again to sign this. I apologize. Nice lady in the second row there yes? Would you like to speak? MS DICKINSON: This is dejavu for me because just about a couple of years ago I stood before you and I made, I pleaded with you not to allow the building across the street from us on the wet lands in the Cove. We now look over at a virtually tenantless waterless mess. And i just beg to remind you that sometimes people are right. Also I live on Bayview Road on the corner and far from Main Road and we almost always have McDonalds debris on our l~wn. Although it is different but are we brave enough to keep it different and be the only Town in the world without a McDonalds. CHAIRMAN GOE~tR!NGER: I have to ask you for your name also. Could you just give us your name. MS DICKINSON: Agnes Dickinson. CHAItlMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody again on this side that would like to speak against the application? Yes mom? Page 27 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MS FLETCHER: Is it permissible to ask a question? My name is Linda Fletcher and I'm a resident of New Suffolk. I would like to I guess I would ask you because you would know or the attorney. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You will pose it up here and we will bounce it over to him. MS FLETCHER: I would like to know if the applicant, McDonald's Corporation is the owner of record of the site? CHAIRMAN GOEERINGER: That question was asked before. MS FLETCHER: And the answer? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Could you divulge who the owner is? MR MINEO: The owner, we have a contract, a conditional lease with Cofam Realty. I understand Cofam Realty is in the process of purchasing the property, so McDonalds will not be the owner it will be a long term lease of the premises. But Cofam Realty is the entity with which McDonalds has entered into this. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Can you tell us who the principal is of Cofam Realty or the principals? MR MINEO: George Lewis and Marty Casmaca. MS FLETCHER: And who is the owner of record now? MR MINEO: Cofam is the actual owner at the present time? MR ANNABEL: Right. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And do you have any idea what their address is or where they are located? I know I have a copy of the lease in the file but. MR MINEO: It is the Sunrise Highway, Bohemia, but we will get the Board a specific address. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you I have a copy of the ground lease which I think was given to us but rather than going through the whole ..OK. MS FLETCHER: I would just like also to address a ~ew comments that were made by the people who did the presenting. I couldn't see I was in the back but the gentlemen who spoke from C.W. Post spoke about this area being unique and I think Page 28 -March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B~A. MS FLETCHER, cont'd: he was certainly right when he spoke about this area being unique and I would like to say that i hope that all of you will consider it's uniqueness and help us keep it that way by denying this application. CPL~,IP~NIkN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. MS FLETCHER: And the last thing that I would like to say is someone here spoke also about the economic contributions that this establishment would make to the community and those economic contributions are going to be very low paying jobs for a relatively small nua~ber of people. The big money for McDonald's Corporation does not stay in the community. It leaves the community and goes back to the corporate headquarters. CHAIRM3LN GOEHRINGER: I think the gentlemen in the rear of the room. Yes. MR ONUFRAK: My name is Joseph Onufrak, i'm an attorney, I also happen to be a Real Estate Broker and an appraiser and I would like to comment very briefly on the testimony of Mr. Barnes, McDonald's expert in a couple of areas. I intend him no attack and I~m not Mr. Barnes credentials. If he is a Real Estate Appraiser however, there is nothing in the nature of being a Real Estate Appraiser that offers any expertise or wisdom to the Board in laying public record here that suggests that Mr. Barnes would know whether or not any other store would be interested in moving in here. A goodly portion of his testimony I believe the tapes will show is an economic analysis not of Real Estate but of a commercial venture and I know of no reason and nothing I have heard here tonight that suggests Mr. Barnes has any expertise on that. The reason for stating this is that this is this Board's purpose is not only regulatory but is educational. This is a public forum and an extremely volatile issue with the community and the community is talking about these questions at some length. We have heard nothing tonight from McDonald's that substantiates an argument and a contention which should be before the Board and that is,what impact does this have on other ongoing com~aercial ventures? Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Leaving this side for a moment. We will ask Mr. Mineo if he would like to address any of the issues. 5IR MINEO: The last issue that was raised about McDonalds potential impact on other commercial operations. I'm assuming that the speaker was referring to the q~estion of competition. He didn't elude to that more specifically. Is Page 29 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR MINEO, cont'd: that in fact sir what you were eluding to? MR ONUFRAK: Yes. MR MINEO: As an attorney IVm sure he's familiar of a whole lengthy line of cases involving special use permit applications, many involving restaurants and a question of competition. I would address the Board, rather refer the Board to a case titled Sup_bright Car Wash vs Board of Zoning and Appeals, in the Town of North Hempstead. Where the, where not only does the Board of Appeals deny Sunbright's standing because their only injury was an economic injury as a competitor but it went on to say zoning laws do not exist to insure limited business competition. There are many cases and I will provide those to the Town Attorney for his review and for his further discussion with the Board. But I would venture to say that if the Board is looking at the issues of limiting competition in any way, then it is looking at an improper stand upon which to judge this application. Zoning laws were not enacted for that purpose. It's very clear from Town Law and to be used in that matter. The courts have often and very vigorously defended free enterprise. Especially when they are being hinged upon by the use of zoning laws. It's putting a law into a use for which it was never intended. I'll leave it at that, but I will be in touch with the Town Attorney about this issue. CHAIRMAN GOF14RINGER: Will you supply us with a copy of that please sir? That decision. MR MINEO: Absolutely. In fact I'll submit all the cases. CHAIRMAI~ GOEHRINGER: In no way am I limiting this side of the room to a discussion but I want to shift over to the opposite side. MR ARNOFF, TOWN ATTORNEY: Mr. Mineo. Perhaps, just so to clear the air, I think the Board's intent here was to follow the law and I'm certainly, I certainly would welcome any input you may have as to what you may think the law is, however I think your comments directed at the Board might better have been directed at the other speaker. This Board is sitting here and is only here to digest what people have to say. Take it back evaluate everything in light of our ordinances and in light of applicable laws and then make a determination. MR MINEO: I didn't mean to indicate that the Board had predetermined this on the basis of competition. Page 30 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation $outhold Z.B.A. MR ARNOFF: No, but I think your comments about the law and what you are lecturing to the Board on what the law is I think are inappropriate. That's my comment. MR MINEO: Well unfortunately~ I!m constrained to advocate my clients case. And we must at this junction point out so there is no misunderstanding at the Board level or for those people that are here interested in the application as to what the applicable standards are. And if I was too forceful I apologize. MR ARNOFF: Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Again over to the... I just want to zip over to the other side and then .... Ok. Go ahead. MRS MELLENDER: Good evening my name is Yuette Mellender and I live in Mattituck. I look at all these big shots that came in from McDonald's Corporation but they don't intimidate me. We're a small Town here° This is my presentation. I didn't bring cartons full of studies and I want you to know that I'm going to speak is from my heart and not from my pocketbook alone. I live in Mattituck and I live in paradise, and to me they're synonymous° This morning as I drove into work on Route 25 I thought about the plan changes to the nature and character of our area and I cried. I travel 100 miles a day round trip. I work in Hauppauge and when I come home this is where I am. Each day I'm so grateful, I'm so grateful for the area that we live in. I feel sometimes like I'm living in a Walt Disney Movie. The big item that we had in the newspaper you people may not understand this is that a deer broke into the Carvet and when the police came they thought that somebody had broken in. My husband and I went away for two weeks and forgot to lock our car and the car was still there when we came back, but that's aside from this. We love to live here it's charming, it's safe and we have all the hamburgers we need. I'll tell you where we go. We go to Fisherman's Rest. We go to the Half Shell Republic. If we want a hamburger we get a $2 hamburger at the Elbow Room. And we go to the Jamesport Country Kitchen. And these are the Mom and Pop operations which will be a very very great loss to us. Sure we want to stop this competition. You know what's happening to the small businesses out here. They are holding on with their fingernails. This is not a tremendous place~ Anything that you take away is going to hurt the nature and character of the area that we live in. It will be a terrible loss. Now once you come in and they grant this whatever it is they can grant and I would like to ask question about that after. Page 31 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Special Permit. MS MELLENDER: W/aat is it? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Special Permit. MRS MELLENDER: This special permit, the small businesses that not only will they be the first to go, but the big businesses they are going to be coming in. We are going to have..Unless you could tell me how we're going to stop it. We can't stop anybody else from coming in once we do this. We don't need the big city chain operations out here. We want our area to remain quaint. We love the farm lands, the nurseries, the wineries. These arethe reasons we live out here. I asked a question of the secretary before, I wanted to know if these were the people that we elected and she explained to me and I was sorry that I didn't understand it. That we elect Board Members who appoint these people and I said when you get ready to vote remember that we are the people who vote those who came out tonight and the people who appointed you, do I have it correct. The people who appointed you are going to be responsible and if you've lived in Mattituck a long time you know. Just like the people who clean the roads are responsible for the roads and those who are suppose to do a job, do a job. As you vote, we are going to be watching and we're going to see who votes for and who votes against and when we go out to vote we'll remember that. I did right a couple of other votes. I thought about as we were talking, we had a terrible accident out here. There was somebody on the back road that was hit by a truck because the truck was racing to the ferry. But now we are not going to have to worry about that on our back road because they are going to come to McDonalds on Route 25 and so our charming Route 25 is going to pick up all the traffic and I did ask McDonald's people during the break. Are you going to put a sign at the ferry. Can you image this guys, that's going to say McDonalds 7 or 8 or 10 miles Route 25 in Mattituck. Why would they not do that. They are here for business. And what I wanted to ask here just one more thing. On what grounds can you refuse to grant the special exception? I know that you said the attorney spoke about case law. So the case law will say you can't grant it on this. But what grounds can you grant it on this? CHAIRMAN GOE~tRINGER: By my discussion of what I had mentioned in reference to the special exception as it applies to this district. A special exception is a special permit that is inducive to this zone. Ok. It's a permit used in this zone° So, for some specific reason this particular application will be approved in some manner, some fashion Page 32 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. CHAIP~AN, cont'd: with certain restrictions. What those restrictions are, what exists~ how it will exist, is too premature for myself to give you an answer or if my fellow Board Members would like to answer, they are very welcome to, but I have to again reiterate the fact that a special permit is permitted as a matter of right in this zone with certain restrictions. MRS MELLENDER: So that we might be losing no matter what we say. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You are never losing no matter what you say. You are only adding to our specific volume and volume of information that we will have to go through when we successfully feel that we have retained all the information that we need in order to make a decision in this particular application. Yes. I have to ask you dear to sign in if you would. ~RS MELLENDER: Ok sure. MS GIBBONS: Just one simple question. Can you deny it because of the will of the people. That being the only reason? No other reason given, the will of the people, we don't want it therefore you deny it. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have to ask you also to sign in if you would and just state your name ~or the record. Again we're saving money here~ this is a .°.Just state your name. I really want to go on to this side and then come back to center if you don't mind. (AUDIENCE): Are you going to answer us? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: i'm working on it. To answer your question you are asking me or my fellow Board Members to prejudge this application and at this particula~ time I can't do that. MS GIBBONS: I'm asking is it permissible just in case? Do you need°, what do you need to deny it? Is it not the will of the people? We the People. We are the people we are the government, we don~t want it. For that reason alone can you deny it? Or can you not? Is it possible? That's all I'm asking. CHAIRMAN GOEHI{I~GER: Well what you are basically asking for is a permissive referendum. And that is so many people saying yes and so many people saying no. .And the people that say no would out weigh the people that would say yes. I Page 33 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN~ cont'd: mean that's conceivably what you are asking for at this point. I don't have that jurisdiction and you are asking me to prejudge it. I'm not in any way being evasive to the question but in my particular opinion as what I have read in reference to case law and I'm not an attorney, I don't prove to be an attorney. Being perfectly honest with you. It is permitted in the zone, the special permit is conducive to the zone and I can't physically see how it can be denied under the present situation. Mr. Dinizio has a comment he would like to make. MEMBER DINIZIO: I would like to comment, however that we would probably, basically have to grant a permit however the restrictions that we determine may be restrictions that perhaps people could not live with. I have to say because to ~ try to answer your question mam if they are permitted this by right they have to meet the criteria set in the law. In other words_for a special permit in that zone. If they don't meet that and they don't prove that to me personally then my vote goes accordingly. However, I do have to listen to each and every person and to what they say. The time for the will of the people is at the voting booth and when the laws are being made. They're not at this particular time. It is in my opinion, too late for the will of the people at this point. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Just hold on one second, Deb, the Town Attorney wants to address this. MR ARNOFF: I think I can address one thing. The will of the people should be addressed to the legislative chain what this Board has to do is to enforce the legislation as it exists. So I don't know that that answers your question but I think that really states the purpose of the Board. CHAIP~IkN GOEB-RINGER: Mrs. Brown you had a question, statement? MS BROWN: Hi, Good evening, my name is Betty Brown and I wanted to reserve possibly an opportunity to.come back and speak with you later, but I just wanted to speak on these comments. It's disturbing that there is not an answer for this question. The Southold Town Code, I have it there, a check list, but I have it quoted and I might be able to read it for you. There are 14 special permit uses in the general business B zone. Of these tonight we are concerned about the fast food restaurants. I would like to quote here, the provisions of Article 26 under purpose are designed to provide for administrative review of selected types of proposed land uses. These uses which are allowable under Page 34 - March 8~ 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MS BROWN, cont~d: zoning are never the less so likely to significantly affect their surroundings that they require individual review to assure compatibility with existing land use patterns, community character and the natural environment, before being committed to come into a distance. Under 100-263 general standards they go on to say that no special exception approval shall be granted unless the Board having jurisdiction thereof significantly finds and determines that the safety, the health, the welfare, the convenience and the order of Town will not be adversely affected by the proposed use and that the use is compatible with the surrounding and the character of the neighborhood. In that they are not automatically able to have a fast food restaurant here. There is a possibility to say no it. 'CHAI~¥1AN GOEH!~!NGER: You are referring to those sections as basic criteria that we would use for denying this special permit. Is that correct? MS BROWN: A possibility of denial. CHAIRMAN GOEF~INGER: That certainly is within the scope. There is no question about it. MS BROWN: ! don't think anyone here understands that. They are talking about.. CHAIRM3~ GOE~IRINGER: I think that was very astute of you to mention at this point. My queStion is are you representing yourself or the N.F.E.C. or both at this point? MS BROWN: Both. CHAIRMAN ~OEhq~INGER: Ok. Could I just ask you to sign in also~ Yes you will come back no problem. Let me just go back. Debbie you had a question, a statement you want to make? MS S!DLAUSKAS: Well I had a statement saying with the laws and everything° CHAIRMAi~ GOEHRINGER: Just state your name for the record. MS SIDLAUSKAS: Debbie Sidlauskas from Mattituck. I recently had written to Superviser Scott in reference to his statement made a good six months ago when this~±±~ c~me to light about~ because there are no specifications in the code for a drive through restaurant that we quickly put something to eliminate the possibility. And we waited and waited and nothing was done. I recently wrote to him to find out if indeed anything Page 35 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MS SIDLAUSKAS, cont'd: had been done and I received a letter from Mr. Arnoff's office from Matt Kiernan and they want to do a full examination of the relevant issues. So I think if you allow it to come through with the drive through you are setting a precedent and will make it that much more difficult to do anything with the code. I mean if we yes to them we have to say yes to Burger King and Roy Rogers and everybody else. I think a precedent has to be set here. I have so many things to say. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You know there is no problem. You can come back and say what you want to say at this point then come back. MS SIDLAUSKAS: Well I would like to say one more thing while I'm up here. You know from the beginning I've been getting so many people say oh and it's been in the papers, it's not an environmental issue. So I decided I would look up the definition of environment in the dictionary, Webster's dictionary and I would like to read that for everyone. Because it doesn't only mean your water and your air and everything else. The definition of environment is the aggregate of social and cultural conditions that influence the life of an individual or a community and I think this will definitely influence the life of a lot of individuals and the community. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Again reverting back to my right and in this particular case the west side of the room here. Is there anybody on this side that would like to speak against the .... Yes mam. Would you kindly come up and use the mic. Take your time. Just state your name for the record if you wouldn't mind please. MS HUNTINGTON: Mary Anne Huntington, Cutchogue. I moved here two years ago from the thriving Metropolis of Port Jefferson. I have watched Port Jefferson sort of slowly sink into the Sound under the weight of overdevelopmento The master plan nipped at the heels of development. So whether it's a moot point at this time I urge everyone concerned to take a much longer view of a better master plan. That's allo CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Could i just ask you to sign in. Again on this side sir I will be with you in one minute alright. Yes sir. Kindly state your name for the record please. MR FLATER: Tom Flater from Mattituck. Apparently, although unfortunately the McDonald's Corporation has th~ right to build an establishment in the Mattituck community despite Page 36 - March $~ 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR FLATER, cont'd: enormous local opposition. McDonald's restaurant will cause irreputable harm to the character of the community~ The Appeals Board has the power to prevent additional harm from being bestowed upon the community by not approving a special exception to allow a drive up type restaurant. Fast food establishments thrived for years before drive up arrangements evolved. I can't imagine that the new restaurant will suffer that severe an economic hardship without the addition of the drive up window. The drive up will subject the community to the possibility~ probability, of additional traffic and traffic safety problems as well as additional trash related problems. Traffic safety will suffer negative impact when people depart the facility onto the Main Road while putting away change, handing out food to family and friends and trying to eat their latest purchase. Obviously these same events might occur without the drive up but the frequency will most certainly increase dramatically. The people can just drive from a window and be on their merry way. More trash will depart the McDonald's site if a drive up is utilized. We all know that this will lead to additional trash littering our neighborhood. ~nethe~ by accident or on purpose. Trying to deny this is ludicrous° We must make every effort to keep our community beautiful. A cliche yes but true. I urge you to deny this special exception in an effort to help reduce the impact upon the Mattituck co~unity due to the impending arrival of McDonalds. I also have another thought based on Mro Mineo's talks about decibel readings with the speaker you were talking about° I have to think back a number of years ago when the Federal Government was running noise tests on the Concord for JFK. As a former resident of Southwestern Nassau, I don't like to tell you about it. The Concord made no adverse noise~ was no noisier than any other jet coming in and out of the airport until you had one go over head. It was a totally bogus concept. Decibel readings are not reliable. That's a fact. CHAIRF~kN GOEHRINGER: Can I ask you to sign in Tom. Thank you so much for your opinion. Is there anybody else again on this side? Thank you sir for your patience. MR NINTZEL: My name is Charles Nintzel I live in Mattituck. 5~o questions came up and this is discussions of other people. One was how many tons of refuse does McDonalds put in their little compactor back on the corner and where does it go? That's a question I haven't heard anybody address. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We'll have that answered for you after your stand. Page 37 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR NI~TZEL: The other one was that kind of mystified me is that the property tax that the people here estimated was $75007 That was the property tax for this, it was estimated to be $7500 and I based that on discussions with the gentlemen here and he said that was based on all the facts. Now to me $7500 for a 1.8 million operation doesn't sound right and ! would just like to leave those addressed to the Board. CHAIRMA~ GOEHRINGER: Can I ask you sign in sir. Is there somebody from McDonald's that would like to address that issue? MR BACH: My name is Randy Bach. I'm a Consultant for the McDonald's Corporation I live at 5 Gerald Drive in Holbrook, 'NY. As far as trash. Starting April 1st of this year, McDonald's,Corporate policy is to recycle all corrugated cardboard in the business. That will reduce our trash volume by up to 65%. Right now there are many stores on Long Island that are in that program and the recycled corrugate is being brought to a plant in Brooklyn. CHAI~4AN GOEHI~INGER: So what portion, would be retained or landfilled at this point? MR BACH: Well a comparable site is the Riverhead store that we've talked about. That store gets three pick ups a month. I asked the owner of the carting services, Riverhead Sanitation, he said they don't measure it in tons, they measure it in, we have a 30 yard compactor. He picks that up about 3 times a month now, however, corrugate is not being separated at that site as of this date. Come April 1st we hope to reduce that by up to 65%. CHAIRblAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you sir. MR BACH: A question was talked about polystyrene as everyone knows we've i guessed buckled under and have decided as a corporation discontinue use of polystyrene. Right now we are depleting supplies that we have and hope to be out of up to 95% less than where we were let's say a year ago. We have not found an alternative use or substitute for coffee cups and some of the breakfast foam packaging that you see. We should be out like I said up to 95% reduction in polystyrene by June of this year. CHAIR~_AN GOE~tRINGER: Thank you. Yes mam. MS HARDY: I live on the Main Road in Mattituck. Everyday, especially in the stunmer I have to pick up trash tha~ Ls on Page 38 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MS HARDY, cont'd: my lawn, a bunch of it from McDonalds. But i wonder have McDonalds done any study if their Mattituck store is successful, when will they start to open in Orient and in Greenport. I think that is something else that the rest of us should consider not only the people who live right in Mattituck. CHAIPJ~kN GOEHI{INGER: Would you state your name for the record? And I do have to get you to sign in, if you can't we'll bring it back to you. MS HARDY: I will sign in. It's Beatrice Hardy on the Main Road in Mattituck. CHAIP~4AN GOEHRINGER: How do you do. Thank you. MR. MINEO: Mr. Chairman, McDonald's would represent that in the event this application is granted it would seek no further approvals for any restaurants of any kind in the Town of Southold. That's a representation. (UNKNOWN): How about Greenport? MR MINEO: Or in I understand you're talking about the Village of Greenport? The same would be true and if the Board feels that a restricted covenant to that affect is appropriate or representation of any type by McDonalds. McDonalds would be happy to make that representation. CHAIRMA/q GOEHRINGER: Thank you sir. Yes mam. MS WACHSBERGER: Freddie Wachsberger, I'm president of the Orient Association. I have first of all a question, because I found it very interesting the description of the legal aspects of this particular this kind of special exception and I might have misinformation but I had understood that special exception basically was granted when the applicant could show financial hardship if it was not an issue. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's a use variance. MS WACHSBERGER: What I wanted to say about the application obviously it is the drive in window that is the problem for most people. Mainly because it does mean traffic and it also means that people then pass through with their garbage and simply drive through. It is really a traffic problem. Obviously nobody has anything against a restaurant where people park and go and sit down and enjoy their meals and we have many such restaurants. It is the particular aspect of the drive in quotient drive in part of a fast food restaurant Page 39 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southotd Z.B.A. MS WACHSBERGER, cont'd: that is upsetting to the community and I think as many other speakers I feel very.strongly that it is setting a precedent that is a real problem here. Because obviously once that is done there is a much weaker basis for denying it to anybody else so McDonalds might guarantee that they won't open one any place else but suppose somebody else wants to open one. In Greenport or Orient or East Marion, already the precedent has been set and there is really no reason to grant this special exception. There is no reason to do it. This is such an important moment and you have the responsibility on your shoulders. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHI{INGER: A big job. Thank you so much. We are back to the center. You already spoke so just wait. You want to touch on that issue. I'll be back to you alright. Sir? MR SCOTT: I'm Peter Scott I live here in Southold and I think it's shame that we're all picking on McDonalds. For they are in the process of bringing progress to our sleepy little North Fork. They promise us that we will have more taxes never mind that there may be less taxes coming from the other restaurants that are hurt by their business. They will bring us more trash. Styrofoam and garbage but could push us that much closer to our having to solve our landfill problems in this area. They will provide us with more jobs at miserably low wages yes but it might keep the kids off the street. All that we have now in this area is locally owned restaurants and this would bring big business to the community and we should rejoice. We should be proud that such a mega corporation as McDonalds is interested in us and has brought in this a wonderful array of hired help to convince us of this. We should indeed be humble. They are spending a lot of money to win this exception and we should be honored that they are. And finally I would note that the promised advent of McDonalds will have the joy of bringing more variety to the food that is offered in our area for all we have now in this area are good restaurants. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I hate to point at people. It's the only way to do it. MR NINTZEL: I would like an answer on the tonnage that is produced in compacted trash and I would also like to know where it is taken~that trash and I know where Riverhead takes it but where is it going to go here? And also I would like to have some sort of an answer on this $7500 in property taxes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I didn't address that issue because I'm Page 40 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN, cont'd: not aware of it. Maybe they went to the Assessors. MR NINTZEL: Well that's what they told me but it just seemed to me to be something. If they are going to contribute $7500 to our community I think that we should be blessed. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Excuse me sir, your name is Charles Nintzel again right? MR NINTZEL: That's right. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. In the back sir? MR ISSAC:' I'm Bruce Issac from Cutehogue, I'm just going to reiterate some of the points that were made already probably but. Supervisor Scott Harris has publicly stated that he has initiated a process to eliminate drive through restaurants in the Town code. So does it make sense now to just push this one through when there's a legal process under way already trying to stop this. And why should McDonalds be the only one assuming this legislation does go through. It's not fair. What's the rush? let's wait and see the outcome of this legislation, that Supervisor Harris has stated that he wanted to put through. Another point is that their master plan warned about the sprawl going from Hamlet to Hamlet and I think this McDonalds is going to enhance the sprawl from Mattituck to Laurel which is already under way and pretty soon we're going to have a sprawl from Hamlet to Hamlet throughout the North Fork. It's not what we want here. We're a tourist area, we don't want it to become Centereach again. Of course you know there's going to be more and more garbage on the streets~ we have it, we've been attested to already that it's already here and it's going increase much more. Another point, since McDonalds wants to help this community out economically so much how about purchasing all their potatoes from Long Island~ from local growers. How about that. Also most of the money of course that McDonalds is going to generate from their sales is as other people said going to leave the area, not going to be in circulation in our area. As with other local restaurants who do in turn, turn it over. One other question, are there going to be any stipulation on the hours that the McDonalds is going to be open? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We are working on that also~ I have not asked that question. We have not addressed that issue at this time. MR iSSAC: When they are closed are those lights in the Page 41 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.BoA. MR ISSAC, cont'd: parking lots going to remain on? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I'll address that issue. MR ISSAC: That's all I have for right now. CHAIRMAN GOEPPRINGER: Could I just ask you to sign in. Thank you so much for your opinion. Ok. Yes mam? MS ROSS: My name is Bette Ross and I live in Cutchogne and I would like to ask the McDonalds representative if the $7500 in taxes is really the figure that we heard? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ok. Surely. 'MS ROSS: Is that true? MCDONALDS: Yes. MS ROSS: i pay close to that on the house that I own and so I don't think McDonalds is doing me any favor by coming. That isn't even enough to pay for the trash that they generate in a month in terms of what they would put in the landfill. The other thing that I would like to address, is that one of the gentlemen who was talking about use of this property, was talking about an office building and the number of parking spaces that they would have to provide for the office space and it would be a great deal more than the 55 that McDonalds has. However, the traffic implication of an office building would not be the same as the drive in because in the drive in we have constant going in and out so that there would be constant traffic whereas if you had an office building or other type of building there it would not be constant traffic. I'm against it. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Before we take any more questions, Dr. could you just again tell us how you arrived at that $7500. Did you do that by contacting our Assessors' office? DR FIGLIOLA: The Tax Assessor. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And that's what he basically derived the assessment to be on the building and on the vacant land. DR FIGLIOLA: That's the number we received. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is that a dollar of assessment or is that the total figure that based upon the normal tax rate today. Page 42 - March $~ 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. DR FIGLIOLA: Based on the total today° CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Everybody hear that? That assessment was based upon the normal tax rate of today. That is not necessarily the assessment. The assessment would be probably a figure that would be either higher of lower than this particular case in this Town~ 60 to 70 dollars worth of assessment so it would be probably be lower than the assessment. MiR CALIBRO: Is it possible that that tax is just on the building since they lease the land, that the owner of the land pays fee taxes. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No. It's probably a net net lease ' anyway. Is that correct Mr. Mineo? MR MINEO: Yes° I believe it's correct. CHAIRMAIq GOEHRINGER: I need your name for the record sir. MR CALIBRO: Paul Calibroo CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ok. Thank you. Stan do you want to speak in the back? MR PARKIN: I thought I was given the understanding when you gave the rate before that $7500 was based on being considered as undeveloped property. CHAIRMAI~ GOEHRINGER: The present assessment as it's under developed. No. As improved right Dr? MR PARKIN: That was my understanding the 7500 figure which is ridiculous. CHAIRMAN GOE~IRINGER: Thank you. For the record that's Stan Parkin from Mattituck please. Ok. MEMBER VILLA: I would like to get something .on the record here. I have couple of questions and well I'll talk loud. So those of you who don't know me I'm the new kid on the block, well ! was a kid a long time ago. But I'm new on the block and I've been given a lot of data and I've been looking and reading a lot of material that's before meo I have some questions before I want to read something but. A question I have is I think Mr. Barnes stated that or in his text here he said the proposed uses is an extremely low density utilization of this site in keeping with both Town zoning resolutions and provisions of article 7 and 12 of the Suffolk Page 43 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southotd Z.B.A. M~ER VILLA, cont'd: County sanitary code. Having just retired from the Health Department I know you left out the important article here which is article 6. Article 6 controls the density use of property which without public water inside, limits it to 300 gallons of sewage per day which dictated that you had a three acre site basically to put your system on. That leads me on to say that the statement that you could put a 26000 sq ft retail store on there is not legitimate. You could only put about a 2600 sq ft retail store on there with the same kind of flow criteria. Because of the Health Department again dictates that without public water you have to meet the 300 gallons of sewage discharge per day. So I just wanted to clear that up. CHAIRMAN GOEHRI~GER: Did you want him to reflect on that before you go onto the next thing? MEMBER VILLA: Sure. MR MINEO: Rather then have Mr. Barnes answer that question I would rather have the architect Stephen Fellmen address that. Mr. Fellmen, name and address please. M~ FELLMEN: My name is Stephen Fellmen with offices at 570 Broadway, Amityville, NY. I'm the project architect here. The point you raised is a good one in terms o~ whether or not there is public water or whether it's well water. If there was public water available we're allowed to calculate it at a rate of 600 gallons per day for the sewage flow. If we do not have the public water then it drops to the 300 gallons per day. Again the 300 gallons per day per acre times a 3 acre gives us a 900 gallons per day flow. Ok with retail stores are calculated at .03 gallons per square foot, that would give us the 26000 square foot shopping center. MEMBER VILLA: You are talking about all dry stalls. MR FELLMEN: All dry stalls that's correct. MEMBER VILLA: Wet stores go up to a tenth of a gallon per square foot. MR FELLMEN: Depending on the type of wet store. You have a differential. But if they were dry stores we could build a 26000 square foot shopping center. MEMBER VILLA: In what shopping center do you have all dry stores? It's been my experience that for at least 40% o~ the stores in any retail shopping center are wet. Page 44 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. FIR FELLMEN: I don't know about the 40% figure° I mean we have done shopping centers that are do contain all dry stores. Normally you don't have this kind of tlrpe restriction. So that it's not a problem that you think about and the owners rent it based upon pizza places or deli's or who ever goes in. Now with the caps and this kind of specialties from the Health Department this is a factor that has been in effect and it becomes more strict as the years go on and something that developers have adjusted to. If they know that they can only rent to certain types that's what they do. Normally you will probably get a mix in the shopping center like this you may get one or two wet stores as opposed to all dry stores. But the one or two would be calculated at the differential rate. You may theoretically then end up with a 24000 square foot shopping center with a couple of wet stores or 26000 square feet all dry. You would determine the mix based upon those ratios. CHAIP~MAN GOEHRINGER: Could you just for the public please tell us the difference between a dry store and a wet store. MR FELLMEN: A dry store is literally that. It's a store that just sells, like a clothing store° Just sells dry good there's no food processing, things of that nature. Like a deli would have some type of restaurant. Those are considered wet stores because there's a lot more sinks and cleaning. Things of that sort which produce more sewage. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you sir. Mr. Villa? MEMBER VILLA: To go on somebody had questioned the solid waste and also Members of our Town Solid Waste Committee and basically if you have got a 30 yard compactor you're generally using by what I would figure a conservative figure of 700 pounds per cubic yard of compacted garbage. It comes out to be about 21,000 pounds which if you round it off 2,000 pounds in a ton you come out to be approximately ten tons. Three times a month that's 30 tons of garbage a month. That's 1 ton a day° The Town is working right now to try to get down to about 40 tons of municipal solid waste per day. So in essence, McDonalds would be contributing about two and half percent in addition to what we are° Putting that in dollars and cents at about $85 a ton comes out to be about $31,000 a year of waste disposal. (MCDONALDS): We got 75. MEMBER VILLA: Now if you will bear with me a little bit in some of the literature I referred to before, Ne~ York Planning News this dated back in 1982~ but I was given a lot Page 45 -March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MEMBER VILLA, cont'd: of this to read and the part that I latched onto here. It said the first zoning ordinance which was recognized as such was the building zone resolution of the City of New York adopted in July 1916, that ordinance which was authorized by the Charter of the City of New York provided for a six member board of Standards and Appeals which by the City Charter was directed to be composed of one professional planner, two architects, and two engineers and a sixth member who is usually a law~/er, however neither the general city law, the village law or the tow~ law requires members of Boards of Appeals appointedpursuant to it dictates to a special qualifications or expertise. Where would persons of special qualifications be found willing to put their expertise to unpaid pu]~lic service in most of the hundreds of small villages and towns in this and other · states, certainly not in sufficient numbers nor is it certain that this degree of expertise is required. As the New York Court of Appeals stated with respect to a similar question involving the issuance of a special permit by a Board of Appeals "Special Exception disputes are to be resolved by a common sense judgments of represented citizens doing their best to make accommodations between conflicting community pressures. In a later case the same court stated that the crux of the matter is that the responsibility of making zoning decisions has been committed primarily to quasi legislative, quasi administrative boards composed of representatives of the local community. Local officials generally possess the familiarity with local conditions necessary to make the often sensitive planning decisions which effect developments of their community. Absent arbitrariness it is for local selected and local responsible offices to determine where the public interest in zoning lies." CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. I am a firm believer in the retention of data and the period of time in which one can retain it and we have been sitting for approximately an hour and fifteen minutes and it is time for us to take another short break. I'm doing that for a two fold reason. I do want to mention to you though in reference to what Mrs. Brown had to say, and I'm reading from the Town code section 101, page 10,081 which reflects the special uses permitted by this Zoning Board of Appeals and it is B of that Section and it is number nine which says as a matter of right. "Fast food restaurants require that eating on the premises of fast food restaurants shall be permitted only inside the structure or in areas specifically designed and properly maintained outside of the structure where minimum lot size for a free standing structure is 40,000 square feet." Ladies and gentlemen, it is the nature of this Board to be sometimes Page 46 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN, cont'd: charged with some interestingly difficult data to sometimes digest before decisions are to be rendered and i'm referring to that and I'm referring that basically over to my friends from Mattituck who the two ladies over here on the one side who asked me those pointed questions. I'm doing this basically to make you understand that we have to take all of this data in and this is basically what we are trying to do. I don't mean to be redundant in saying this~ in restating thisf but these are issues which we know are very volatile to this community-to the entire community not just necessarily Mattituck or any of the western communities. To the entire community of Southold Town and we have all intentions of taking as much data as we possibly can. We have not restricted anybody from speaking here tonight and I have no intentions of restricting anybody from speaking. And ~ I ask you if you are not available on April 5th to come to this meeting to complete this process that you speak tonight and state your specific opinion~ be it just an opinion or a~ whatever it is. We are extremely involved in whatever goes on in this community. I have made statements before and i will make them again. We not only answer to everyone of you we answer to the people that have appointed uso And we take this very very very seriously. We do not take it lightly~ As you have seen and the people have come to these meetings and we do appreciate everybody being here and except you please to come back at approximately ten after ten and we will then ask Mrs. Brown if she has anything else she would like to add since she had some things that we kind of cut here off with before. Thank you. Gentlemen I need a motion. All in favor - AYE. (Ten minute recess) 10:17 pm - Reconvened hearing CHAIRM~N GOEHRINGER: There was one nice lady who would like to speak. This lady over here and we'll let Mrs. Brown then go. Yes? MS ROBBINS: My name is Joan Robbins. I live on Main Street in New Suffolk. In reference to the work that the Board is doing, and in reference to the will of the people, I would just like to say that until we as voters manage somehow to change the zoning law to prohibit strip zoning, we can all look forward to spending a lot more time in this room appearing before this same Board not for the rest of our lives because it won't take that long to fill up the strip. CHAIRMAN GOEHR!NGER: Could I just ask you to sign in. Yes mam? Could you just check that, I don't think that microphone is Ono Thank you. Page 47 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MS SMALL: My name is Fay Small. I live in Mattituck. I have a couple of questions. One comment first, then two questions. My comment is regarding the noise factor. Not only the speaking box in the drive in, that is a definite concern, but also I feel that the cars that are waiting to be taken care of there are another noise area. Particularly if you have use of 12 I believe cars could be parked there around waiting to get through the drive in area. Six of those may have open windows and radios blaring so that's a real problem. Noise wise Ok. Now I have, that is just my comment. CHAIRMAN GOE~IRINGER: I just want to say to you. I had spoken to the attorney on my way up-Mr. Mineo, in question and they are going to address that issue-on April 5th they are going to come back and address that issue. Alright, so they may not address that issue tonight. MS SMALL: I have two questions now, one is if you have any idea approximately how many cars would go through the McDonald's property everyday? If there is any estimate of how many different cars would be going through? You don't have to answer me this minute. (MCDONALDS): 1,300 cars per day is approximately what we have seen at the successful McDonalds operation in the Riverhead area on the site. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:' Thank you. And 40%. MCDONALDS: 40% would be using the drive through. And again what we have seen is that the drive through generates additional traffic, it really enhances the operations of the facility and it's what the people want. People want that convenience to drive an automobile to get that service. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Would you just state for the record. MS SMALL: I have one more question. We drive past the McDonalds in Riverhead frequently and always there are huge tractor trucks parked down on the grass, on the road. Have they made provisions for that type of thing to happen in Mattituck? CHAIRMAN GOEPIRINGER: You are referring to off site now, not necessarily on site, not on site of the McDonalds? MS SMALL: They are right there on the edge. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's off site. Page 48 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonaldVs Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MS SMALL: On the shoulder° I still think it's a danger. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sure. No question about it. MR MINEO: The operations of the parking~ or no parking regulations on the shoulder on Route 25 is under the jurisdiction of the New York State Department of Transportation. Again they have not completed their review~ i believe that will be one aspect that they would review if they ad any specific concern they would come back and act the appropriate regulations. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: it was just brought to my attention, by my Board.Member and good friend Mro Grigonis that there is a pay phone there also, so the trucker is really doing a dual use. He~s grabbing food and at the same time calling. (Riverhead Site) MS SMALL: But they can't get those trucks into the property itself very easily. Some of the big ones. CHAIRMAN GOEHt~INGER: I think it would destroy the parking lot, but that's not neither here nor there. Because some of them weight S0~000 pounds, but my question is, is there any discussion concerning a pay phone on this site at all? MI~ ANNABEL: There will absolutely not be a pay phone in fact there are no pay phones associated with McDonald's restaurants at all and that would be a restriction that McDonalds could certainly agree to in this application. CHAIRMAN C~EHRINGER: Thank you. Could I just ask you to sign. Thank you. Alright. MS SCOGGIN: My name is Shelly Scoggin and I'm a business owner and I would just like to say that a lot of people that come into my shop that do greatly help this economy out here are tourists. The reason they come here is because it is so beautiful and so unique and so unlike everywhere else where they could vacation on Long Island. If the fast food drive through restaurant is approved, there will then be no way to stop any of the others. Which wilt then make our place, look in theory just like Riverhead. They won't come here anymore. So I don't see how it will help our economy, I really only see how it will hurt our economy and I greatly urge you to turn this down. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Shelly. Nancy? MS SAWASTYNOWICZ: Good evening my name is Nancy Page 49 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MS SAWASTYNOWICZ, cont'd: Sawastynowicz and I live in Orient. I find trash in Orient from McDonalds which I find hard to believe number one. Number two, can we give them some kind of a covenant so that they will have to pay for their garbage instead of the local taxpayers and also I would like you not to approve this I think that it would definitely be a problem to our Town. We have been in existence for 350 years and we don't need McDonalds. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes? MR PILLAI: Hello my name is Bryan Pillai and I'm the president of the student council at the North Fork Catholic School. Our newspaper, school newspaper recently took a poll of the students to find out what they thought of the project 'of McDonalds going up in Mattituck and they found out that around 75% of the students do not want it. So as a representative of the students I would care to say that we don't want the project of MeDonalds. I would also like to point out that I live on Peconic Bay Blvd about four houses down from the end of Bray and when we go out it takes a couple minutes for us to get onto the Main Road and I don't see how the Main Road can accommodate 1,300 more cars each day. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Is Mrs. Brown still in the audience? Bette is there anything else you would like to add? MS BROWN: I'm Bette Brown. I'll just represent myself as a resident of Riverhead Town. I wanted to mention that provisions of your Town Code are riddled with opportunities for the Board of Appeals to address community character and the negative impact that McDonalds will clearly have on the unique country character of Southold Town. Maintaining Southold rural character with the goal that was throughout your master plan and I thought a goal that came out of the Planning Conference that was just this past year come together. I asked the Board, is it possible to maintain Southold's rural character and have a fast food strip on Route 25? Would anyone here in this room like to move from Southold back to Riverhead Town and shop on our fast food alley? The name of it is Tormane Alley. That's what everyone in Riverhead calls it. I urge you. I implore you to please do anything in your power to turn down this application. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. MR MELOSH: My name is Arthur Melosh. I live in Mattituck, Page 50 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southoid ZoB.Ao MR MELOSH~ cont'd: retired business man. I've been in the food business, the restaurant business all my life. t didn't come here to make a speech or anything, i'm not for McDonalds and I'm not against it. I would just like to make a few comments. When I heard that the garbage was picked up three times a month, my restaurant can fall apart, is across the street from the Roy Rogers and they had a pick up three times a week. The Board of Health was there many many times for rodents. And I can't understand how they can have a pick up three times a month and not have rodents. I was also here about 17, 16 years ago when the old Boker Supermarket was going to be utilized for a senior citizens home , housing at that time. It was about 400 people jammed in Mattituck High School and it was the will of the people that prevailed. It was turned down. A few years back there was an airport 'proposed for Cutchogue and all those that were against it wore red arm bands and it was the will of the people that prevailed. So you gentlemen up there you have to use let your conscience be your own guide. There's a good showing here tonight and i think the will of the people again should prevail. Thank you. CHAIRFR~N GOE~IRINGER: Can I ask you to sign in. I'm sorry about this. There was a gentlemen over here. Sir. You are letting the lady go first? MS VOEGELIN: My name is Rachel Voegelin, I'm a resident of Cutchogue. I'm a fairly new resident out here, four years. One of the reasons i moved out here, I came from Manhattan and I've lived in, further west up the Island. One of the reasons I chose this area was because it was free from McDonalds and other such things. I think one of the gentlemen from McDonalds, I may be wrong said something to the effect that just because McDonaids, the special exception is approved does not necessarily mean that there will be other fast food restaurants. ~nat may be true, but I would like to know if any studies have been done or if anyone can tell me where there is only a McDonald's restaurant and no other fast food restaurants. That's all I would like to know. And the other thing is, we've heard this a number of times this evening but I live on the Main Road in Cutchogue and the majority of my liter comes from two places, one is the 7-11 which is a mile and a half down the road and the other is McDonalds which is in Riverhead and I just wonder when McDonalds moves closer, how much more of that liter will be on my yard? Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes sir? MR GOLDSTEIN: My name is Warren Goldstein, I'm the executive Page 51 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR GOLDSTEIN, cont'd: director of the North Fork Environmental Council. I came here tonight with a whole list of points that I was going to make about this application and I was going to ask you to turn it down and I was determined not to be completely redundant and almost all of those points have been made by the people here. So Itm going to do my best not to repeat them all. Instead I want to try and turn to a couple of other things. One is to think about the process of democracy, which is here tonight. And it has some very interesting lessons for us. It has some lessons about what people are willing to come out for. What people care about and how they are willing to express their opinion at 10:30 on a Friday night in a hot hearing room and they have been here for almost three hours now. Almost everyone here has been here for three hours. The people that want to turn this application down are the great majority of the people that have been in this room that period of time and they are not being paid for it. The folks who want this restaurant here are being paid for it and they are being paid a lot money for it. And I want people to think about the kind of corporate citizens McDonalds has been on Long Island. The last time I saw this many representatives of McDonalds in one place is in the Suffolk County Legislature a couple of years ago. When the McDonald's Corporation was fighting tooth and nail another piece of environmentally sound legislation the efforts to ban styrofoam and other forms of styrofoam packaging from Suffolk County. At that time the McDonald's Corporation and a few other very large corporations pulled out all the stocks and managed to persuade their legislature that this would make bad environmental policy. That in fact styrofoam was completely recyclable and it just so happened that the McDonalds was building a recycling plant in Brooklyn that would take care of all the styrofoam. They managed to persuade the Suffolk County Legislature to rescind that piece of legislation and then a year or so later just decided to flip flop on the issue leaving Suffolk County having already rescindeda piece of environmentallysound legislationl McDonalds as a corporate citizen on this Island doesn't much care about the people here. McDonalds as a corporate citizen cares about Coffers that are far away from Long Island and this Board and these people need to keep that in mind. They especially need to keep it in mind when people that come here on behalf of McDonalds say things that are plainly not true. They are plainly contrary to our common sense. No one here believes and people here really wonder how someone could have said this in an intelligent matter believes that one McDonalds will not attract other fast food restaurants. If you can say then you must not travel in the United States. You must not even travel on Long Island. You must not have been along the Jericho Turnpike very much. You must not have Page 52 - March 8, 1991 /~ Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.BoA. ~ GOLDSTEINt cont'd: been on Route 25A. You are asking us to believe things that are plainly not true. We know here that a precedent is being set. And because we know, beoause the people in this room know that if this application is approved then an important precedent will be set for Southold Town. That's why they've got the people here in suits telling us that what is plainly not true, is! The reason why they have willing to change the form of the restaurant~ the reason why they have studies and reports that could choke several horses is because they know that the people here don't want it. If it was an easy call, if it was something that ought to sail through~ then there wouldn't be all those reports. There wouldn't be the tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in consultants' time put into preparing those reports. They know in fact that the people here don~t want it. They are trying to bend over backwards. They are trying to convince you with large reports and they are trying to convince us with artists renderings° That's why they are doing it. They know already what we know, which is that we don't want it here and the majority of people don~t want it here and that's why they are trying make us believe otherwise. They are trying to convince us with those reports° I want to say a couple things about economics, I ~-~ just want us to think a little bit about why one would think this is an economic addition to this Town~ The economic basis of $outhold Town is very clearly agricultural and tourism. It's very simple, everyone that studies this Town, knows that about the Town. It was especially clear at the North Fork Planning Conference back in the fall. And everyone who studied the issue and everyone who talked at that conferencet talked about how this economy, how the environment depends on those two things. Agriculture and tourism. People don't come to a ~ don~t come out here as tourists to go to fast food alleys. They could do that in Centereach, they could do it in Rocky Point, they could do it in Syosset. And people don't go to those places as tourist places° They don~t go to Centereach for a Sunday afternoon drive. They don~t look for the farmstands in Syosset. They don't go to take a boat out along the Sunrise Highway. They come back here it's different° If we make this Town, if we change the character of this Town so much, so that people don't come out here anymore~ we~ve killed the goose that lays the golden eggs° We will be slitting our own throats in this Town and the economy will be damaged beyond repair~ One last thing then I~ll let you goo That is~ i'm an historian when I'm not working with the N.P.E~C~ Historians sometimes look back and disagree as why certain changes took place and one group of people thinks that enormous historical changes are the result of great impersonal forces that we can't really know what's happening to us~ that somehow forces, take over and other folks think that's actually up to individuals, that Page 53 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR GOLDSTEiN, cont'd: you can actually look back and see who made certain kinds of decisions. Ten or twenty years from tonight, people are going to look back and they are going to be able to say something about decisions that are made in this room and in your heads, tonight or on April the 5th. And at that point when they look at that they will be able to see that it's not impersonal forces, it's Mentbers of the Zoning Board of Appeals, it's citizens of Southold Town, it's Lobbyists from the McDonald's Corporation and they got together and they made a decision. They either made a decision to change the character of Southold Town irrevocably so that it became like the rest of Long Island so it became the sprawl that begins in Garden City and ends where? At Route 58 in Riverhead? Or they made another kind of decision. They decided that the character of the Town and · the future of the Town was so important that they were going to use the zoning code to protect the future and character (TURNED TAPE OVER) .... You've got the responsibility. It is a big responsibility. I'm sort of glad I'm not in your shoes beCause I wouldn't like to have to do this every other Friday night and to carry that responsibility. But you can make a decision, the zoning code allows you to do it and the constitUency of people out here want you to do it. It's up to you to do that. And finally that's an opportUnity for you. You actually get to make that decision. You get to make a decision for the future of this Town. Thanks. CHAItLNLAN GOEPIRINGER: Warren, I would sincerely like to wrap this up tonight with any comments that Mr. Mineo might have and thereby holding this hearing off again until April 5th at 7:30 and unless someone has a specific objection there is one question I want to ask Mr. Mineo, and then I'll let him comment on whatever he wants to comment. The onl~ other thing about the site plan that I kind of lost sight of during the evening was the emergency access, which was requested by the Planning Board and which I being a Mattituck Fireman had mentioned to our commissioners in Mattituck and to the three chiefs. I'm concerned with those three parking spaces that are adjacent to that in the respect that if there were cars parked in that area and there was the need, that area would certainly have to be blocked out, ok as being a no parking zone. MR MINEO: That's not a problem, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Anything you would like to comment. MR MINEO: I'm not going to make any further comments. There are a couple of ~ ' ~ ~hzn~s concerning the precedent. There's no such thing as precedent in the zoning law, but I'll put that Page 54 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR MINEO, cont'd: in the same memo that I submit to Mr. Arnoff, so we won't go through that now but except to say that concerns that if you grant this application with the drive through window it automatically means Burger King, Taco Bell, Wendys or whoever can come and in waive the decision of this Board and say okay let me have a building permit. It's absolutely contrary to zoning laws. Exactly but there is no such thing as precedent. At any rate what I would like to do, I would just like Mr. Dunn to make one comment in response to a comment that Bryan had made. He was the only one to elude to the fact that 1,300 new cars on the road per day~ and then I would like Mr. Annabel just to make one brief comment as well. That would conclude our presentation. MR DUN/q: In terms of the additional amount of cars added to · road by the proposed McDonald's operation, we:ye pointed out in traffic impact studies it's been recognized by the experts, the Town hired to review our document and I'm sure it will be recognized by the State since we submit this document to the State for their detailed review and that's the primary reason why that document is so voluminous that they have requirements that we must meet. What we showed is a pass by traffic-that McDonalds traffic is~ 70% of the traffic going to McDonald's restaurant is on the roadway already. They see a McDona!ds and they divert~ they go to it. They say I'm going to stop at the McDonald's restaurant. They are not going out for the sole purpose of going to a McDonald's restaurant. Now, we conservatively presented at the request of the Town's consultant 50% instead of 70%. We looked at a worse case traffic examination and that's a major point to be considered. We are not adding 1~300 more cars a day on the roadway. We are only adding a certain percentage and that's why that we have conditions that we can handle the traffic flowo What we said that there is essentially 30% of the traffic going in would be considered as new traffic that would not be on the roadway that's passing by. In other words they could start out from home and say I want to go to McDonalds tonight and go for a hamburger. In other words, even though you may not do that there are families who would like to go out to a restaurant, go to McDona!d~s restaurant at night, and the children desire it and they go there. That's that 30% crowd. That's been documented by a number of studies that has been accepted by, throughout Suffolk County and by both the State and a nu/uber of other towns on Long Island. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you, Mr. Dunn. MR ANNkBEL: I wanted to just address a couple of the comments that Mr. Goldstein had brought up. Let me start by Page 55 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR ANNABEL, cont'd: addressing his comment that those of us up here representing McDonalds are extremely well paid. That is I assure you an unfair assumption. I want to also defend why we are here tonight giving you all of these reports and giving you all these renderings and every%hing. I think that that's probably an example of corporate responsibility. I'm sure that no one here would have preferred us to come here with our hands in our pockets and just say would you please let us be here. We have an obligation to this Board to show you why we believe that a special exception should be granted here. And of course that's going to result in expert testimony and reports. And as far as the renderings go, I think that rendering is a great example of a lot of effort between the Town's Planning staff and Planning Board and McDonald~ and I would just like to commend the Planning staff on working with us as closely as they did. I'm proud to show that rendering and again ! say to you where would we be tonight if we didn't have that rendering at least to look at so people know what it is we are proposing here. As far as the comment about whether McDonalds is a good corporate neighbor or not, I'm not going to start to try to figure out whether we are or not or compare us to other corporate neighbors but I venture to say that as a personal feeling not a McDonald's employee, McDonalds I believe is a good corporate neighbor and I think we can stand tall against any other corporation on the Island as far as that goes and I'm not going to start listing some of the things that McDonalds does throughout Long Island. And the final point I would like to make. There has been a lot of discussion about McDonalds being a big corporation and that all the dollars that McDonalds will generate in this space will leave and go to some coffer somewhere else. Generally I can tell you that that's not true. We are believe it or not, a small operation. We are-every store is operated independently, typically by a local entrepreneur business man who would live in the area. He puts back a lot of the dollars that he earns in that store back into his business and back into the local area. Again I don't want to cite a lot of examples but we recently opened a new restaurant in Ridge, Long island and the owner/operator a young entrepreneur who was awarded that store lived in Coram which is a neigh_boring town. So we are not and he lives in that area and that's where his dollars are going to be reinvested. And those are the people who are making the money on these restaurants. So I think it's not really fair to say that the money is going to be leaving the Town. That's really all my comments. CHAIRMAN GOEPIRINGER: Thank you. I urge you all~ we do have a fairly small office. I urge you all that are concerned with any information that has been given to us tonight to Page 56 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southoid Z.B.A. CHAIRMAN, cont'd: review it-it may take some time. I do want to point out one major problem that we do have in the circulation of information that we have received and that is it generates a significant amount of questions and they are not necessarily questions that we can answer. On page 22 of the traffic study and I only randomly pulled that out. If you have a specific question concerning page 22 of the traffic study. I would suggest reducing it to writing and we will then pass it along to McDonalds and ask them for their comments concerning it. I'm only saying this not because it's a cop out attitude. I'm asking this for the sole purpose to allow us to then digest all the information after the April 5th meeting~ We cannot spend hours, and hours~ and hours concerning answering questions that concern this volume or any other volumes that we receive tonight. Ail I can do at the next meeting is after you have reduced it writing and you have given it to us at the hearing is to pass it along to McDonalds and give them a time limit to return the information to us and then we'll return the information to you. And please bear that in mind. Yes sir? (AUDIENCE]: When is your final decision going to be made? CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It will be 60 days, we have 60 days after we actually close the hearing. I will not close the hearing on the April 5th. I will wait until all of the information from all the residents come in, in reference to questions that are generated from the response that we will receive concerning the information when people review the files. So I would say, I can say that of the normal jest of the way we deal with it is, we would probably close the hearing at our April 18th meeting. And we will close the hearing on April 5th as to verbatim testimony. It will be reduced to writing testimony and that will be testimony that the attorney for McDonatds may refer to our Town Attorney concerning. He will then discuss it with us, if we have anything that we want to place in the file. We will have until April 18th. Anything that we receive we will pass along and we will get back and we will return to you, which would then give you time to respond to a specific statement that you might want to enter into the record. But it will be reduced to verbatim testimony and to non-verbatim testimony to written testimony only. Shelly? MC SCOGGIN: Is it true that Scott Harris is working right now on this legislature for banning fast food restaurants? And isn't it true that we really can't make a decision until we get the results of this study or legislature~ whatever it's called that he's working on? Page 57 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. CHAIRMA~ GOE~RINGER: You know it's interesting. To answer that question it's a three fold question. You have to give me a minute to do it okay. Because I have to organize my thoughts. Number one, the greatest situation concerning this Town and I d° this, and I say it and I feel goose bumps when I say it becauSe I represent the County in many situations and I have all workings with all other ten towns but the greatest thing about this Town is that we work on exactly what input and what people want concerning zoning and we do that in a forum, whiCh is referred to as a legislative committee and that committee is chaired by the Deputy Supervisor who is George Penny and he does that on usually once or tWice a month. We all get together, we sit in the Town Board room and we discuss these particular issues. These issues have come back and the code committee, where it ' is at this point I'm not sure. I can only answer, I can speak to George and find out where it is at this point. I have no idea to this point where they are. I'll be right with you Debbie. Second issue is, should we as Members of that Legislative COmmittee sit on discussions that concern individual areas that are before us? Legitimately, logistically, I can't do it. When we are discussing something that's going to ban an application that's before us it is not within my purview to sit within that committee when that discussion occurs. And number three, the discussions, the decisions that come out of legislative committee are then drafted by Mr. Arnoff and his associate and reduced to a legal opinion, in legalese language and then come before this tribunal in the Town Board and then have a public hearing and then it is voted on. This is a very unique situation being a small town and being able to do that. I just have to have George get back to you. Or if you want to call George you are very welcome to. I'll give you his telephone number. There was another question Debbie Sidlauskas? MS SIDLAUSKAS: I was wondering why you didn't address this question to Mr. Arnoff as supposedly it's in his office. MR ARNOFF: What's in my office? MS SIDLAUSKAS: The legislation. Actually the letter is very gray. MR ARNOFF: Because I don't have the letter in front of me nor have I read it. I don't know what Matt told you in the letter so. Not every bit of correspondence that comes in and out of my office do I see. MS SIDLAUSKAS: I know but I assume that you must be aware of if Scott Harris has handed something down for review or to do Page 58 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southoid Z.B.A. MS SIDLAUSKASj cont~d: something about it or to write up a legislature. MR ARNOFF: The general tariff of the last meeting that I attended was that they are looking into the entire commercial the entire commercial zones and Warren was at that meeting when we were discussing that as well. That was with the Town Board~ he appeared in front of the Town Board, I believe at the last meeting if my memory serves me correctly. MR GOLDSTEIN: It was at a work session, Scott wasn't there. MR ARNOFF: Scott was not there and it was being Chaired by George at that time and we did in fact discuss~ that was in the committee. I don't believe anything has been reduced to 'writing coming out. MS SIDLAUSKAS: All I know the letter says since receiving that direction from Supervisor Harris the Town Attorney has been examining that issue. MR ARNOFF: That's correct we have been along with the legislative committee that's correct. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We were asked, Debbie, after your rally to comment, I think that was in October or November. When was the rally? MS SIDLAUSKAS: Right. CHAiRMAiq GOEHRINGER: To comment concerning commercial zones in general not limiting it to fast food restaurants but comment to those zones in general. So it has been an ongoing thing. MS SIDLAUSKAS: I know, but I also asked specifically about the drive through window. CHAItL55AN GOEHRINGER: I understand. MS SIDLAUSKAS: Exactly what this letter was about° CHAIRMAN GOEERINGER: Right. To what point I don't know. And I will tell you legitimately, I will not sit in on any conversation that affects t~_is particular organization or this situation. Yes Mam? Again for the record, your name? MS FLETCHER: Linda Fletcher. I know that the president of the New Suffolk Civic Association, Joan Robbins, who spoke here tonight received a letter last week from Scott Harris Page 59 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MS FLETCHER, cont'd: saying that this draft legislation was in your office. MR ARNOFF: It's quite possible that Matt has been working on that and I have not seen that. MS FLETCHER: She wrote to ask him about it. MR ARNOFF: I haven't see the draft of that. MS FLETCHER: But that's what came out of the discussion. MR ARNOFF: Call me on Monday and I will be glad to give you a definitive answer. CHAIRMAN GOEERINGER: Bryan? MR PILLAI: I would like to know about my study of five grades, McDonald's officials truthfully have the experience of living on the North Fork and driving on the roads of the North Fork, to say that the traffic generated by a McDonald's fast food restaurant will not effect our roads. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Do you want to answer that? MR MINEO: One, I guess it goes back to some of my experience Bryan, that is correct. I do not live on the North Fork, I live on the South Fork. I'm aware of the traffic problems that have evolved only in working with McDonald's and other major developers throughout Long Island, but I also represent towns, villages, communities, civic associations and am aware of both sides of the picture. As part of the requirements rather than just having the experience of living here and driving on the roadways which I can assure you I have driven the roadways numerous times I've been involved with other studies on the North Fork. I have experience in preparing traffic impact studies and just as you questioned, does the roadway have the ability to handle the traffic, the New York State Department of Transportation asked that same question of us and that's why we have to go through the extensive studies. Studies that they mentioned they collected a lot of traffic volUme cap data that analyzed accidents data, that looked at a number of traffic conditions to come up with gap analyses to see how many cars could get out of the driveway based upon the number of cars on the roadway during the peak summer conditions and based upon the conduct of these studies I can conclusively tell you that our report indicates that there will be no adverse traffic impact. That the vehicles entering and exiting .the site can do so, they can be accommodated on the roadway, that there Page 60 - March 8~ 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MR MINEO~ cont'd: are sufficient available gaps to accommodate the traffic. It's based upon a number of aspects. Based upon the peak operating hours and the analysis of the individual hours of traffic. That's a good question Bryan. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes mam? Do you have a question? MS HUNTINGTON: i just~ I guess he hasn't driven during "pick your own pumpkin~' season. The public sentiment is so strong opposed to the institution of having this thing in Mattituck. How, why are you perpetuating, do you have so much money invested in this so far? Public sentiment is against you. CHAIRMAN'GOEHtlINGER: Could I just have your name for the record again? MS HUNTINGTON: Mary Anne Huntington. CHAIRM~ GOEHR!NGER: Thank you. Yes? MS TOMASZEWSKI: I have a letter similar to Debbie's, but actually I also was interested some of the comments about the D.O.T., I have experience with them. I live in Laurel and I tried to get the speed limit that was 55 on my block changed because when I moved there, there was six houses and then there were 22, with many many little children. I was told that the cars that were racing by that were clocked going 70, that would issue tickets that it was not the case, it was a big breeze and I have it in quotes. I have it in writing still. It's hard to believe. CHAIRMAN GOEHR!~GER: Could I have your name for the record? MS TOMASZEWSKI: Mary Ellen Tomaszewski. CHAIRM3uN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Alright I would like to oh yes there is one more comment yes? MRS MELLE19]DER: I would just like to ask is it possible for the April 5th hearing to be better advertised? ! found out about this through a friend who called and a letter to the editor in the Suffolk Times but otherwise, I think you would have had many more people. This is was a very small showing. Don't you agree and so I really feel since it is such an important issue and it is to our Town, if it's possible for the Board to figure out a way that Troy I'm sure would be very happy to put something in happenings or whatever for people to know and you would get people, it isn'.t just, you might get people that would like to get up and speak for you, Page 61 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. MRS MELLENDER, cont'd: I don't know. You didn't get a showing here because I don't even know how people knew. If you didn't read, Bryan's letter to the editor, you didn't know that the meeting was here tonight. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It was advertised in the legal notices and it will be readvertised even though we don't necessarily have to readvertise it. MRS MELLENDER: Is there any other way of doing it? Legal notices aren't read by a lot of people. MEMBER DINIZIo: I would like to just make a comment and ask a question. I think that what we're looking at is not a restaurant but a drive through window and for the life of me I don't think it's been addressed tonight. I would just like to see perhaps a comparison or some more emphasis on that particular piece of the drive in window perhaps compared to a deli. My idea of a deli is that there are no seats and basically that's to me with the exception of having you open up a car door and get out is basically the same thing that you are trying to do. But, you haven't, to me you haven't given me anything to bite on as far as what are, how our law pertains to allowing you to have that use. If you could, not now, next, I'm trying to give you my insite now so that you can come back. Give me some insight into that or some type of information, your idea as to how our law applies to McDonald's restaurant in this particular area. I think you would do me great service in trying to make my decision. As far as the trash thing is concerned. Certainly I'm going to get on my bicycle and ride the Main Road and see just what's on the side, but I think Mr. Villa's issue of just and I don't believe it was ever answered where exactly is this garbage going to go? I don't really think you ever did tell me that. It's going to go up on the North Road. And if you can tell me exactly where it's going to go and what it is going to be. Weight and also what it consists of. Something in writing maybe before the meeting and I think you would help me tremendously. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GOEHI~INGER: Again in closing I would like towish everybody a happy safe trip home. Anybody that has not signed down here, please sign. Thirdly, please I thank you all for your courtesy. It was well appreciated. I need a motion recessing the hearing to the next regularly scheduled meeting. Ail in Favor - Aye. Page 62 - March 8, 1991 Public Hearing - McDonald's Corporation Southold Z.B.A. Transcribed from tape (Not present at Hearing)