HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-02/22/1991 HEARING $OUTHOLD TOh~,l BOb_RD OF APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING OF
FRIDAY~ FEBRUhRY 22, 1991
Board Members Present: Chairman, Gerard P. Goehringer
Members: Doyen, Grigonis, Dinizio and Villa
Linda Kowalski, Z.B.A. Secretary and approximately 30 persons
in the audience.
Applo No. 3995
Applicantls): David J. Strupp
Location of Property: Private Road, Fishers Island
County Tax Map No.: 1000-3-3-5
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:30 p.m. and read
the notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Copy of a site plan indicating the
approximate location of these two proposed, we will refer to
them as accessory uses, and I have a copy of the Suffolk
County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in
the area. Is there anybody here from Fishers Island that
would like to be heard in turn for this application? We will
then go to our resident Board Member.
MR DOYEN: Mr. Strupp phoned me this morning and said that it
would be a great hardship for him to attend this meeting
because he had family problems. I visited the site and I
believe it's the most practical location for these two uses.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Mr. Doyen. For those persons
in the audience, Mr. Doyen, who is the gentlemen who just
spoke to my extreme left is a resident of Fishers Island and
he comes to most if not all of our meetings and I appreciate
his testimony. Is there anybody else who would like to speak
in favor of this application? Is there anybody who would
like to speak against the application? Is there any
question from Board Members? If there are no questions from
Board Members I would like to make a motion closing the
hearing reserving decision until later.
All in favo~ - AYE.
Appl. No. 4001
Applicant(s): Paul and Kathleen Forestieri
Location of Property: East Side of Paradise Shores Road,
Southold.
County Tax Map No.: 1000-80-1-24.1
Page 2 - February 22~ 1991
Public Hearing - Paul and Kathleen Forestieri
Southold Z.B.A.
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:38pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Indicating this vacant parcel of
property, approximately 90.94 x 136.21 and I have a copy of
the Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding
properties in the area. Are you Mr. Forestieri?
MR FORESTIERI: Yes I am.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How do you do sir? Would you like to
speak?
MR FORESTIERI: Yes. This problem with A few months
ago I was attempting to sell the property to my brother and
he went for bank financing on it and they asked for a vacant
land C/O. Up until that time I thought I had a completely
perfectly legal lot. I had obtained a c/o when I purchased
the lot. You should have that in the paperwork there. On
December 7, 1984 and I purchased the lot that same December
24, 1984. I took that to mean to me that the lot was a
buildable lot and that there would not be a problem. I
understand from a couple of people that it is simply not the
pattern in that you give vacant land c/o's and it's not a
reflection on this particular lot~ it's just that no proof
exists any more. It seems that the lot is in fact buildable.
The neighborhood is a neighborhood of lots approximately that
size and many of the houses, most of the houses in the
neighborhood are, every lot is built on with one house. So
having this lot as a buildable lot would in no way change the
character of the neighborhood. There was one additional
piece of information that had come up that I didn't submit
and would like to submit it now if I could. That refers to
the issue of whether the lot is single and separate. In 1967
the lot was owned with two adjacent lots by one owner. At
that time he went for appeal and he was granted the appeal.
The appeal~ ! hadn't submitted that~ is that appeal in your
folder?
CHAIP/MAN GOEHRINGER: I believe we have a copy.
MR FORESTIERI: You have copies. OKo That appeal granted the
dimensions of this lot. Set aside is the words that they
quoted there. So that I think further adds to the case that
uhe lot was indeed a single lot at that time. In addition,
the owner sold the adjacent lot during the same year December
23, 1967. Actually separating out the two lots. That was
Nelson Axien to Richard Clark. So.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You then bought from Richard Clark.
Page 3 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Paul and Kathleen Forestieri
Southold Z.B.A.
MR FORESTIERI: No. He sold the adjacent lot to Richard
Clark and held on to the lot that I now own. In 1984 I
purchased the lot from his estate.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: From the Axien Estate?
MR FORESTIERI: Yes. But at that time in fact from 1967 the
single and separate search shows that from 1967 onward there
were no joining of lots. The lots were single and separate.
So my understanding is that everything had been done in
accordance with the understanding of the times. 1967 it was
acceptable. When I purchased the lot it was acceptable, I
got a certificate of occupancy on it so, I'm not , what I'm
asking for is for, that you find it to be buildable.
Something that I can then rely on so that if I want to sell
the lot which is what I do want to do. If the purchaser can
be assured that the lot is buildable.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Just back to one thing Mr. Forestieri,
that you mentioned. When you said sometime subsequent to the
granting of the variance by this Board in 1967. Which these
two gentlemen were on it but I wasn't and no were any of the
other gentlemen this way OK. You said that Mr. Axien or Mrs.
Axien or one of the Axien's sold something. What did they
sell? The lot in the center?
MR FORESTIERI: They sold the lot in the center.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Which clearly denoted the fact now that
your lot was a single lot because they had no conti~dous
property to it and that's what you were saying.
MR FORESTIERI: That's right. As of 1967 they had no
contiguous property.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sometime subsequent to whenever they
sold that center parcel out which had a house on it at that
time.
MR FORESTIERI: It was about a month after the variance.
The information is on the single and separate search when
they did that.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I will concur with what you are saying.
We thank you for coming in.
MR DINIZIO: Can I ask a question? Because I did read the
single and separate. You are saying that there were three
lots in the beginning then. They all were owned by the same
person. I was confused and you cleared it up. The middle
Page 4 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Paul and Kathleen Forestieri
Southold Z.B.A.
lot is the lot we are talking about.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No.
MR FORESTIERI: No. The lot to the North.
MR DINIZIO: OK.
MR FORESTIERI: The lot I owned remained in the possession of
the family.
MR DINIZIO: And so did the lot that was two lots down from
that?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The house lot.
MR FORESTIERI: I didn't follow the selling of that lot.
MR DINIZIO: Yeah but..
MR FORESTIERI: I don't know. It's not owned by the family
now. But the lot in the middle was sold off shortly after
the variance in 1967.
MR DINIZIO: It's just kind of confusing.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It is confusing. Ok and again we thank
you. Is there anybody else who would like to speak in favor
of this application? Anybody who Would like to speak against
this application? Any other questions from Board Merabers?
Hearing no further questions I make a motion closing the
hearing reserving decision until later.
All in Favor - AYE.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I hope to have a decision for you
shortly. Thank you.
Appl. No. 4000
Applicant(s): Salvatore and Jeanne Catapano
Location of Property: Right of way, Southold
County Tax Map No.: 1000-69-6-9.3
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:45pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We have a survey on behalf of Salvatore
Catapano. The last date was June 22, 1990 indicating the
nature of the right of way which is outlined in red and it's
designation to lot number two and a copy of the Suffolk
Page 5 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Salvatore and Jeanne Catapano
Southotd Z.B.Ao
County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in
the area. Would you like to be heard Mr. Catapano?
MR CATAPANO: We are just here to answer any questions that
might be asked.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How many lots-will eventually be
serviced by this right of way.
MR CATAPANO: By this right of way there will be two. There
will be I don't know the lot number designation hut's in the
name of Beinert and the lot behind it, lot number two.
CHAIRMA~ GOEHRINGER: Lot nu~uber ~wo as I drove down that
right of way is presently improved by a one family home.
MR CATAPANO: No. That is the Beinert residence.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Which one? That's the one OK I
understand that's the one to the south. It will only concern
that residence and lot nun~ber two. Those are the only two.
MR CATAPANO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Those are the only two. What have you
done to this right of way to enhance it?
MR CATAPANO: Right now the right of way has lust been laid
with stone. We intend to create I believe a 25 foot road way
there and then heavy with stone and grade it.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: When you say stone you are referring to
bank run stone or are you referring to blue stone or stone
blend or what?
MR CATAPANO: Blue stone. Over top of bank run. That is what
is there now.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The bank run is there now. That is now
pushed down into the sand and topsoil.
MR CATAPANO: We are waiting till the next lot is completed
because we are going to wait for the nex~ home is completed,
lot number two so that the blue stone isn't stirred up and
pushed down by the heavy equipment.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: When will that be done?
MR CATAPANO: Lot number two? As soon as we get all the
approvals.
Page 6 ~ February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Salvatere and Jeanne Catapano
Southold ZoB.Ao
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ok. You are commencing construction on
that as soon as you get the approval?
MR CATAPANO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So that the nature of this application
would mean that the completion of this particular right of
way would occur when you are seeking a c/o for lot number
two.?
MR CATAPANO: Yes°
CHAIRMAN GOEHR!NGER: So as not to disrupt lot number two
with heavy trucks, I'm sorry so as not to disrupt the right
of way through lot number two° Ok. That makes sense. What
you have to tell us is how much blue stone you are
anticipating putting on in reference to a maximum depth. How
deep do I want it? I haven't discussed it with the Board at
this particular time. It certainly, we have always talked
four inches but in this particular case you have a subsoil
base so it's going to be a variable from two to four. That's
what it is going to be.
MR CATAPANO: Ok. That doesn't appear to be a problem.
We were anticipating four ourselves.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How wide would you say that right of
way is now?
MR CATAPANO: Right now I haven't got a measurement but I
figure it's about 20 feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGEK: Ok. So you are going to go to the max
you are going to go to 25.
MR CATAPANO: We are going to take the 25.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Good° Have you incurred any drainage
problems at all in it?
MR CATAPANO: Just all the way toward the end just right in
front of lot number two. It does not affect the Beinerts
residence but that is because the ground slopes there because
lot number two has not been developed in any way so the slope
has to change there. Lot number two right now is draining to
middle. That will be changed.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We thank you so much. Could I have
your first name for the record.
Page 7 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Salvatore and Jeanne Catapano
Southold Z.B.A.
MR CATAPANO: My na~e is Sal Catapano Jr.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there anybody else who would like to
speak in favor of this application? Is there anybody who
would to speak against the application? Seeing no hands.
Questions from Board Members? Hearing no further questions I
make a motion closing the hearing reserving decision until
later.
All in favor - AYE.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: For anybody in the public just so that
you don't want to sit through the entire meeting I see Mr.
Booth is here. The last hearing the Cholowsky one has been
withdrawn. I'm just mentioning it to anybody.
AUDIENCE: What does that mean?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well he has requested that he withdraw
his application from our Board so we assume he is not going
to continue with the project. I should have done that in the
beginning and I apologize. The minute I saw this gentlemen
walk in I said I've got to mention it.
Appl. No. 4002
Applicant (s): Frank C. Gilbert, Jr.
Location of Property: 1095 North Parish Drive, Southold
County Tax Map No.: 1000-71-1-11
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:53pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have an existing sketch.which is a
copy of the survey and I have a site plan referred to site
plan number two sketch which indicates the desire of the
applicants to construct a living area from the existing
dwelling toward the bulkhead. In any case we will ask him
how far he is going to the bulkhead. I have copy of the
Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding
properties in the area. Would you like to be heard Mr.
Gilbert?
MR GILBERT: Yes. I just received a letter today, I've been
away it was in my mailbox here and I thought they were going
to send it to me up in Wes~chester but they didn't. They
asked for another set of plans which I have with me if you
would like to have them.
CHAIP~NLAN GOEHRINGER: Sure that would be great. Thank you
very much.
Page 8 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Frank C. Gilbert Jr.
Southold Z.B.A.
MR GILBERT: I think they also asked me how far it was from
the new construction to the existing bulkhead and my
estimation is 45 feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ok. So you are approximately 45 feet?
MR GILBERT: 45 feet back to the bulkhead.
MR DINIZIO: 45 feet to the retaining wall or to?
MR GILBERT: 45 feet to the new construction to the bulkhead.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: In other words the actual new
construction he is not referring to the retaining wall I
don't think.
MR GILBERT: I don't think we need that retaining wall. They
are going to do away with the retaining wall.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So you say it is approximately 45 feet.
How far is the actual construction going to?
MR GILBERT: 20 feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It's going to go out 20 feet from the
house. OK. This is going to be a kitchen?
MR GILBERT: No. It's is going to be a family room and a
bedroom below.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: So it will be a two story, when we say
one story it will be half in and out.
MR GILBERT: It's really basement with a story above. It's a
ranch type house now with just one story.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I guess the main concern that we have
at this particular time is, Mr. Gilbert, is the defalcation
of the cliff. We are concerned about when you go in with
machinery because you have really a great ground cover there.
You have a lot of ivy and you have a lot of nature plants and
plantings in that area° What are you going to do to
'.mitigate that measure? What plans do you have?
MR GILBERT: I have already contacted contractors and there
appears to be no problem in getting around to digging that
portion of dirt out for the basement because after all it is
on a hill so it's a very small part that has to come out.
That part can be spread around the structure when it's
Page 9 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Frank C. Gilbert, Jr.
Southold Z.B.A.
finished and what's ever left over they intend to transport
across the road. I have a lot across the road that it can be
spread out in that lot.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I see. Usually in construction of this
nature we usually request that hay or straw bales be placed
around the periphery of the portion, of the construction that
is most close to the water. In this particular case with the
slopes that exists there I don't know if it would do any good
or not. It's quite a downward slope right in that area there.
MR GILBERT: I don't think there would be any problem with a
run off. There is quite a space at the bottom of the
bulkhead. It levels off quite a ways before it goes to the
end of the bulkhead.
CHAIRFLAN GOEHRINGER: Right. What is the approximate size of
the addition?
MR GILBERT: 20 x ?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I'll look it up. That's no problem.
The construction will not exceed the ridge of the existing
house?
MR GILBERT: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: There will be no automobile, of course
there wouldn't be a garage, there will be a bedroom
downstairs. There will be no way of getting an automobile
over to this in any way. It's very simply for habitable use.
MR GILBERT: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don't think I have any further
questions. Do you have any questions anybody?
MR DINIZIO: Yes. I was just trying to figure out why you
would want to put it on the edge of a cliff and why you
wouldn't want to put it in the front of the house. Why
wouldn't you want to put this in the front of the house?
MR GILBERT: There's a family room on the first floor and if
we want the view, that's what we bought the house for. We
are right on the water. It seems the appropriate thing.
Also it wouldn't be convenient to have it on the back because
we have the bedroom on the back. We would have to go to the
bedroom to get into the family room. So I don't think that
would make much sense. This way we attempted it for a dining
room and a family room both. It's just much more convenient
Page 10 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Frank C. Gilbert, Jr.
Southold Z.B.A.
that's all.
FIR DINIZIO: Ok. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Are there any other questions?
MR VILLA: Yeah. What~ you say the house is too small for
your existing family. How big a family do you have?
FSq GILBERT: I didn't hear you.
MI{ VILLA: You say the house is too small for your existing
family?
MR GILBERT: I have grandchildren now. They like to come
down and I don~t have enough room for them. The dining room
and we have a very small kitchen. Just a very small area to
eat. There is not enough room to put four people around.
When you bring the son and his wife and the children down we
are pretty crowded.
MR VILLA: When did you purchase the house?
MR GILBERT: Around 1950. It's the Sarh property that was
divided.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there any other further questions?
Hearing no other further questions we will see if anybody
else has any questions in the audience. Is there anybody
else who would like to speak on behalf of this application?
Anybody like to speak against the application? Questions
from Board Members again? Would you just reverify that 45
feet for us please because it appears to be a little bit more
than that from my estimate, to the bulkhead. To the inside
of the bulkhead. You lose sight of it when you are standing
on top because you can't tell. I see the stakes but you
can't tell actually how far it's going because you are
looking at it.at a different slope.
MR GILBERT: I took it pretty much from Van Tuyl's. That's
to scale. I measured out on a scale. The architect also
checked and he came back with about the sa~e idea so I think
it's pretty close.
CHAIrmAN GOEHRINGER: Alright~ we'll check it too.
MR GILBERT: I have a question. They don't use the high
water mark anymore it's always the bulkhead?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You own to the high water mark. That
Page 11 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Frank C. Gilbert, Jr.
Southold Z.B.A.
is correct.
MR GILBERT: There is more space there. I guess there is a
least four or five feet.
CHAIRS~%N GOEHRINGER: Sometime in the mid 80's we imposed
which was originally 239, i'm sorry 139.4 which ended up to
be in the new zoning code 239.4 or 239d. In all cases it
reflects the bulkhead or the lip of the bluff on the Long
Island Sound.
MR GILBERT: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You are very welcome Mr. Gilbert.
Thank you. Hearing no further questions I make a motion
closing the hearing reserving decision until later.
All in Favor - AYE.
Appl. No. 4006
Applicant(s): Eric and Mary Ann Alexander
Location of Property: Peconic Bay Blvd., Laurel
County Tax Map No.: 1000-128-4-20
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:02pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRFLAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of the survey done by
Young and Young. The most recent date is May 29, 1975.
Indicating a rather large one story frame house and garage on
this 19665 sq ft lot and a copy of the Suffolk County Tax Map
indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is
there somebody who would like to be heard in behalf of this
application? The Alexander's have requested a recess until
the next regularly scheduled meeting unless there's any
questions from Board Members I'll grant that request.
Thank you. The date will be March 22, 1991 and I offer that
as a resolution gentlemen.
All in Favor - AYE.
Appl. No.: 3977
Applicant(s): Mitchell Marks
Location of Property: 29829 Main Road, Orient
County Tax Map No.: 1000-14-2-1.6
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:05pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEMRINGER: This is a application that was opened
Page 12 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Mitchell Marks
Southold Z.B.A.
at the last regularly scheduled meeting and was asked for a
recess. You are welcome to use the microphone and state your
name~
MR MARKS: I contracted a builder to build a pool in my
backyard and supposedly he was going to comply with all local
variances and ordinances° After the pool was built it turned
out that it was approximately 12 to 16 feet too close to the
rear property line which is on the water, which faces the
water. I have a letter, I had an architect take a look at
the property and take a look at the plantings that we did, I
have submitted this to the Board° Which basically says that
he feels that to move the pool back would probably cause more
damage than to keep the pool where it is. Also the neighbor
to the east of my property recently received a variance to
build a pool which was less th~n half the distance between my
pool and the top of the bluff, the rear of the house I~m
sorry. The top of the bluff is approximately 58 feet from
the top where mine is I think 88 feet.
CHAIRMA~ GOEHRINGER: I measured it. 76 from the closest
blow out on the top of the lip of the bluff to the edge of
the deck.
MR MARKS: 76 feet instead of 100.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right. You are talking pool and I'm
talking about closest construction~ Closest construction is
really the deck.
MR MAR~S: Right there's another l0 feet which makes 88, 86.
The deck is just laying on top of the dirt. The other thing
is I don't think it would really0bstructany of the neighbors
to having it where it is opposed to moving it back° It's
visible by property~ the lot to the right and it's a
relatively a large piece of property. I don't think it's
going to disturb them too much.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Will anything change other th~n what we
see except for the fact that you will put a permanent fence
around it?
MR MARKS: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Overhead lighting?
MR MARKS: Nothing. I mean I would probably next year I
would build, I would replace the steel pipes with wooden
pipes.
Page 13 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Mitchell Marks
Southold Z.B.A.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right. You have no intentions of
enclosing it?
MR MARKS: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have no problems with it, to be
perfectly honest with you. I have no idea how my fellow
Board Members feel about it. Only because of where the
property slopes. It slopes away from the bluff toward the
pool and we are concerned about sloping toward the bluff and
an erosion factor. That would only occur, Sod forbid if you
lost the whole bluff. I doubt seriously in that case.
MR MAI~KS: I put fertilizer on the bluff and throw some grass
seed on it a couple times a year. It's also watered
regularly.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It looks great.
MR MARKS: Do you want the letter from the architect?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sure. Thank you very much sir. Is
there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this
application? Is there anybody who would like to speak
against the application? Questions from Board Members?
Hearing no further questions I make a motion closing the
hearing reserving decision until later.
All in Favor - AYE.
Appl. No.: 4004
Applicant(s): David J. Verity
Location of Property: Rocky Point Road, East Marion
County Tax Map No.: 1000-31-2-10.2
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:08pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax
Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area.
How are you tonight sir? Is there anything you would like to
state for the record other th~n what you told me when we
were down there?
MR VERITY: I'll answer any questions.
CHAIRMAN GOE~LRINGER: We have for the record a framed garage
which is 16.3 ft in depth and approximately 29 feet in length
at it's closest point it's 7.1 feet from the southwesterly
property line. It does not contain any lighting fixtures
Page 14 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - David J. Verity
Southold Z.B.A.
there is no electricity to the building. Is that correct?
MR VERITY: I have drop light rigged with an extension cord.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: When you build your house there are you
planning on putting electricity in it.
MR VERITY: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Are you planning on changing the floor
in any way in making it more permanent?
MR VERITY: Probably I'll put some blue stone in.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: You are not going to put a cement slab
in or anything?
MR VERITY: No. This is only temporary.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have no problems with the placement
of it. I understand your reasoning for coming here and we'll
see if anybody else has any questions. Is there anybody else
who would like to speak on behalf of this? Or against?
Seeing no hands I'll ask any Board Members if they have any
problems this.
MRS KOWALSKI: There are two buildings right?
CHAIRMAN GOEHR!NGER: But this one has a permit on it. It's
really only the one building.
MR VERITY: Yes I took a permit for the very first shed.
MRS KOWALSKI: I thought it was voided. It wasn't voided?
MR VERITY: The C/O was held up because I didn't get
electrical in. By that time it was two years later so it had
lapsed for some reason. I might be back for that one.
rlSaanks for coming down.
CHAIPA~IAN GOEPLRINGER: No, it was very interesting. You are
doing...
MR VERITY: A picture is worth a thousand words.
CHAIRF~AN GOEF~RINGER: Hearing no further questions I make a
motion closing the hearing reserving decision until later.
All in Favor - AYE.
Page 15 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli
Southold Z.B.A.
Appl. No. 4005
Applicant(s): Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli
Location of Property: Wells Road, Southold
County Tax Map No.: 1000-70-4-16
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:15pm and read the
notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey dated from
Peconic Surveyors P.C. the most recent date is December 20,
1990 which indicates a frame house approximately 65 feet from
Jockey Creek and approximately 67.4 feet from Wells Ave.
However the nature of this application is an accessory garage
detached from the main structure. As the nature of the
application reads approximately 40 feet although it indicates
to me 43 feet from Wells Ave. At the closest point it's 14
feet 1 inch from what appears to be the north property line.
Is there somebody who would like to be heard on behalf of
this applicant?
MR PEIX: I'm an architect for the Kellys. We have a
building permit which we were granted in the middle of
December to reconstruct the main house and also to build a
new garage site exactly where it's shown there. But in that
application, that permit, the garage was shown attached to
the house. What the Kelly's are really asking is that we be
given permission to not make the connection so the garage can
stand free and separate from the house. We think it will be
viewed better from neighboring houses. It will just open up
the site a little bit.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Did you state your name for the
record.?
MR PEIX: Douglas Peix.
CHAIRMA~ GOEHRINGER: Sorry. Can you tell us the approximate
size of the proposed garage?
MR PEIX: It's 23 feet square. It's a two car garage.
CHAIRM3LN GOEHRINGER: Ok. And what is the maximum height of
that one story structure?
MR PEIX: You have it on your plans. It's going to have I
think 700, I gave you elevations. It's going to have walls
that I think are 7 or 8 feet high and it's is going to have a
four pitch roof.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right. I noticed that. Can you give
Page 16 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli
Southold Z.B.A~
us an idea from the actual top of the peak, because we run in
to a tremendous problem with this. From the top of the peek
just to grade or mean grade.
MR PEIX: Just a second° 18 feet from the pe~ak.
CHAIRF~AN GOEHRINGER: Will there be any utilities in this
garage other th~n electricity?
MR PEIX: Just electricity.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The peak of the garage will only be
used for storage as well as the...
MR PEIX: No storage.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No storage at all because you really
can't get to ito The other is just for storage of vehicles
and other assorted?
MR PEIX: Cars and lawn stuff.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRiNGER: Is there anything else you would like
to state for the record?
MR PEIX: Only that there are a good number of houses along
Wells Ave that have detached garages in similar locations.
We do intend and we will comply with the side yard set back
requirements that are standard.
CHAItlMAN GOEHRINGER: I'm showing 43 feet. Is that correct?
MR PEIX: We have been told by the Building Department that
we have to set back at least 40 feet and the o%~ner weuld like
to put it approximately 43.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: When you say the Building Department
you are referring to an established set back at 40 is that
what they are saying?
MiR PEIX: It's apparently a code requirement on Wells Ave
that accessory buildings have to go back that far.
MR DINIZIO: It appears to be established.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I think it's established it would be
any building, really any building. That's why I asked the
question. We thank you. Is there any body else who would
like to speak in favor? Anybody like to speak against?
Page 17 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli
Southold Z.B.A.
MRS WICKBOLT: We are the neighbors that are opposite, that
are going to be most affected by this building that he's
going to construct. Before I go any further I have a
question to ask. Isn't there suppose 15 foot set back on the
side property? He is going to put this 14 feet from the
property line?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I think this is smaller then a R-40
zone. I would have to check the...
MRS WICKBOLT: I was under the impression that it had to be
15 feet. But I could be wrong on that too.
CHAIRFLAN GOEHRINGER: I think it's 10.
MRS WICKBOLT: I could be wrong on that too because I'm new
to the area too. We bought this property with the intention
of moving in there and living there for the rest of our
lives.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Just let me get an idea of where you
are. Standing in front of the property in question you are
to the left?
MRS WICKBOLT: To the left. Right. If he puts this garage
up I will be looking at this enormous building from my
kitchen, from my deck, from every window in part of the house
~-that is facing his property. You will have to bea~ with me
because it looks like I'm the only one that's going to speak
against anything ....... Ed Sigmund. So I feel a little bit
nervous. I also feel strange coming against a neighbor I
have to speak against something that he's doing. Before they
started to lift one hammer I can't understand why they didn't
decide to put this garage and attach it to the house and
build something different that would not be so objectionable.
He's building something that is going to devaluate my
property because nobody including myself will want to look at
this enormous.garage that stands there. It is practically on
top of the corner of my property. Maybe my husband has
something else he would like to say. I feel like I would
like to request that you deny him this. He tells that they
are allowed to build it if they put this little walkway and
attach it and that they have already received permission.
Did I understand that correct?
CHAIRFLAN GOEHRINGER: Not to my knowledge.
MR PEIX: I have a drawing that will help everybody
understand it. I have colored it in so you can see. Do you
see the yellow bar on that? That's the connection which was
Page 18 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli
Southold Z.B.A.
filed with the Department of Buildings. It was a like
breezeway connection. I was directed by the Building
Examiners that as long as it was attached to the house it was
considered to be part of the house and therefore it would be
acceptable.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's a problem of interpretation to
be honest with you. Needless to say if they give you a
building permit.
PROBLEM WITH MACHINE
MRS WICKBOLT: Why didn't he put a garage over like this?
These people, their house is over here. This is where my
house is. Everything that he puts in here is what I've got
to look at. We have a little tiny house. We thought we
would move in there and spend our retirement years there. We
are not in there yet. We are in the process.
MR WICKBOLT: We know the building zone. Nothing can be
built there.
MRS WICKBOLT: I really was startled to see something like
this going up. I understand that they want a larger house.
They have a child and everybody has their own architectual
designs and what they like. But before they started they
should have done what they doing.
MR WICKBOLT: There is a __ starting there I don't know
what that is.
MRS WICKBOLT: They could have really designed themselves a
house that would have not been and I wouldn't have said a
word. I can't make you people say that he can't have it.
I'm requesting that you deny this. To me it's going to spoil
I think he's even going to, I don't think anybody would buy
this house. My house is almost as big as the thing he wants
to build. We.are a little larger but we are talking about a
building that is, anyone that knows this little house.
Almost as large as my house, except my house has two stories
on it.
MR WICKBOLT: People pass by they stop and look at it like
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's always the case when a new house
is being built. Is there anything you would like to say for
the record?
MR PEIX: I feel defensive and I would like to explain how
things were done. We proposed the garage as a free standing
Page 19 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli
Southold Z.B.A.
pavilli.Qn because the house is large. It's twice What it was
more th'an twice. It was a ranch and now it's a real two
story volume. Attaching the garage to the house to me
architectur~]lywould have made the house feel even bigger.
So as it is,~'t j'~ __~ more discreet. The prOblem is this.
My understanding of the set back rules are the side yards
have to add up to 35 feet and neither side can be less then
20 feet, That's what I think it is but we can check.
Because of where the house is I couldn't put any garage in
this zone it's too close to that property line, I have very
few places to.put the garage. Essentially here or I could
have put it here. If I put it here I block their living room
view back to the forest.
MRS WICKBOLT: But what you are doing now is giving me a
lousy view because and I had a nice view. I know I can't
change it. I could see everybody's front yards until the
current changes. Which is your concern about your client's
view. I hope you don't mind that I'm discussing this with
him. Now what you have done to me.
CHAIRi~AN GOEHRINGER: We are only doing this because you are
the only four here. Normally this not a ....
MRS WICKBOLT: We should be talking this out between each
other.
CHAIRM]kN GOEHRINGER: I can't wait for this to come down in
written form. We are going to get yelled at by the person
who is doing this.
MR PEIX: They intend to plant and have a growing trellis on
the back of the garage. I would like to say that this is
going to be one of the most more attractive garages because
we just didn't put doubl~ a pitched dog house roof on it.
MRS WICKBOLT: On a garage. It's a garage.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Just let me explain something. If a
person does not choose to add thei~ garage to the~ house in
some way it is clearly stated that the only place that this
is going to be able to go is in the front yard. Certainly we
could not put this garage in the rear yard. We are forced
with either a~. affixed attachment to the existing dwelling or
in this particular case the modified existing dwelling or the
new dwelling because it really is a new dwelling. Or putting
it in the front yard area. Most of the houses down there
that have garages are attached to the house. There is no
question about it. I did look at that particular aspect of
it. I don't know what to suggest to you at this time. I
Page 20 - February 22~ 1991
Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy iannicelli
Southold Z.B.A.
will be perfectly honest with you. Being on this Board for
11 years no one has ever,and this has no reflection on you,
none at all, no one has every told me that they objected to
the existence of a garage in the front yard area for the sole
purpose of that type of view. We run into this problem all
the time with blocking people's water views. That is not the
case this time° This is the first time I have heard it at
this particular time. That does not make any difference, and
I'm not taking anything away from you. I'm just telling you
that that's where I heard it from. Is there anything that
this gentlemen could do if this Board was so inclined to
place this building in this area that would make you feel
better? Is there any type of screening that would make you
feel better? We don~t have to complete this application
tonightt this gentlemen can still construct his elient~ house,
~e can reconvene after you think about it~ the next meeting.
I can see you are very upset about it. We are not here to
disrupt anybod~ life, we are not here to disrupt.
MRS WICKBOLT: I know that. I'm aware of that. Even if you
decide, I'm not going to be angry at you people, i'm telling
you, you sent me a notice~ and he is asking for a varianoe
and since I'm able to say something I'm telling you why.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I understand.
MRS WICKBOLT: I don't want it there. I'm going to be honest
if he gets this and he puts it there, I probably won't move
into that house. Because I think every time that I look out
of that window it's going to drive me crazy. I'm telling you
how I feel. However you have to make your decision.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Where is the entrance to the garage.
MR PEIX: Currently it's proposed to come in that way. The
doors would face the street. We are showing I think two
house windows, small divided like windows on this side and
another one back there. To make it look .....
MRS WICKBOLT: It's ridiculous because before you started.
MR WICKBOLT: I know this could be changed and it could be
attached to the house very nice. i even can design you a
house.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: How far is it from the existing house
right now?
MR PEIX: It's approximately 15 feet, 10 feet. Let me ask
this° Would you feel better if we took the garage and slide
Page 21 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli
Southold Z.B.A.
it up into this front corner closer to the road than 40 feet.
I don't know if you can grant that as an option. That would
open up a wider gap for the view that you would like to
preserve.
MRS WtCKBOLT: You can't because my house sits on an angle
like this. I'm not saying anything~ We'll do what this
gentlemen says. We'll go home and think about it. I just
feel that you people and your client's or who is ever in
charge of this is taking a lot upon the other people because
you should have gotten permission to do all this before you
did this.
MR PEIX: We did. We have permission.
MRS WICK]BOLT: Then go and do it. That is the only other
thing I can say. Then do it. How come you don't want to do
it that way? If you have permission why are you starting
with this?
MR PEIX: They want to be friendly neighbors. They didn't do
this to be m~lfciQus.
MRS WICKBOLT: Excuse me. They are never even going to live
in there. They'll live in the city. He told me that.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We have a problem anyway. We have a
problem with the doors opening toward the road. So that is a
problem that we have, I have. I don't know if the other
Board Members have. We always ask for the doors not to open
toward the road.
MR WICKBOLT: Should this be a fact of why you have a
continuance?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What I'm going to ask the architect if
he would do, we will reconvene this to the next regularly
scheduled. See if there is some other way that you can
manipulate this and possibly we can deal with this in a
different matter and what ever appropriate screening might be
even away from. Nothing is etched in stone at this point.
We realize that it's going to have to go in the front yard
area, if it's not affixed to the house.
FIRS KOWALSKI: What was the reason over here that it wasn't
able to. There is a driveway here, right?
MR PEIX:~'The set back. See the line. This line if I
maintain the required set back from this southern property I
can't push it very close. So I can really only put it right
Page 22 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli
Southold Z.B.A.
here.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No. We can vary that into the side yard
area. I would stay at least 10 feet from the property line.
The Other problem that we have is with water front parcels
that you would be closing up or literally attempting to close
up a side yard area. You must at all times leave the other
side yard area completely open.
MR PEIX: That's fine. There is a road
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I'm just mentioning that, so that's
something that you could mention to your client because if
there is a anticipation of a swimming pool, whatever the
situation is.
MR PEIX: How do you feel about us poking into the 40 foot
set back°
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have no problem with that.
MR PEIX: You don't.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: As long as the driveway doesn't open
to that.
MR PEIX: How close, how far could I go? How close is too
close?
CHAIRFL~N GOEHRINGER: How close is too close. We have
granted them as close as 20 feet. We would rather not go to
20 feet. We would rather keep it between 20 and 30.
MR DINIZIO: My personal opinion is I really don't see why he
can't attach it to that house.
MR WICKBOLT: I know this fellow could design it. He looks
like a very capable architect.
MR PEIX: I don't know at this point. We have a signed
contract that's. It was a surprise when they decided that
they really liked it free standing and not attached, Most
people, most owners like to have a covered connection to the
garage, but they didn't care about that.
MRS WICKBOLT: That's interesting you know because he has
this he has permission to move this.
MR PEIX: The garage doors on this face you and that's
what you are going to be looking at all the time. This plan
Page 23 -February 22, 199i
Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli
Southold Z.B.A.
is a better plan for you.
MRS WICKBOLT: I'll go back and look at it but I doubt,
because it's going to be set away. He's going to have a
front yard here.
MR PEIX: Right. Driveway. If you are going in this way you
are going to have a big driveway turn around.
MRS WICKBOLT: I'm hoping he'll landscape some of it. We'll
go back and we'll look at it and we'll all come back in a
month.
MR WICKBOLT: It looks all different on paper. Later on this
goes around the corner and somebody builds an attached garage
there.
MRS WICKBOLT: I stood there now for the last three weeks and
positioned myself in all different ways. I went upstairs
and looked out. But whatever.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you so much and I hope that we'll
see you again in a month.
MRS WICKBOLT: I hope I wasn't too ... I feel that way.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No. I'm happy we put it at the last,
saved it for the last hearing. We'll see you in March. We
do have a problem with that sod effect or trellis affect
going from the main house. We refer to that as a subterfuge.
It's usurping the zoning code. You really should come in for
a variance.
MR PEIX: I'll see you in a month.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I hope that's not a hardship to you,
but I understand you have a signed contract if there is
anything we could...
MR PEIX: I want to keep my clients happy. I would like to
keep the neighbors happy. I want to meet the rules.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you for being so open about it.
MR PEIX: I think I may be abl~ to talk to them into a one
car which would cut the volume way down and if we could
· position it better. Exactly. Thank you very much.
MR VILLA: Is there anyway of lowering the grade on that
garage floor. It seems to pitch off from the street.
Page 24 - February 22, 1991
Public Hearing - Thomas Kelly and Nancy Iannicelli
Southold Z.B.A.
MR PEIX: Maybe a little but you are not going to get much.
MR VILLA: If you could get that they almost could see over
it. That would be great.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MR DOYEN: So what are you going to recess this Gerry?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes. I make a motion recessing it to
the next regularly scheduled meeting which is March 22, 1991.
All in Favor - AYE.