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TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW YORK
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS HEARING
Main Road, State Road 25
Southold, New York 11971
March 1, 1990
7:3~ P.M.
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BEFORE :
BOARD MEMBERS:
ALSO PRESENT:
GERARD P. GOENRINGER,
Chairman
CHARLES GRIGONIS, JR.
SERGEs. DOYEN, JR.
JAMES DINIZIO, JR.
DOREEN FERWERDA
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THE CHAIRMAN: We will open the
hearing, ladies and gentlemen, and the first
thing to deal with is Southold Agway, which
is what we inadvertently didn't deal with
the last time.
This is an application that is re-
questing a fence in the front yard area for
the purpose of enclosing the front yard for
the house plantings or bedding plants for
the sumpter. Of course, they want to know
that they have it so that they can order the
proper materials. In this particular case,
the lot.
Does anybody have any particular
objection? The only problem I have, Char-
lie, is that we have to allow this corner
here to be unobstructed. So in other words,
you have got to be able to see through the
fence. If you remember, we did the same
thing across the street on Southold Lumber
on Boisseau Avenue and the corner of what-
ever that next
road that runs
Avenue?
road ... what is the next
between Boisseau and Youngs
Whatever the name of the road is.
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It's Ho~nel. We made them put the lumber
hack ten feet on both sides so you could see
down the road. Okay. All right.
So I assume you were not here for
this hearing, were you, Serge?
MR. DOYEN: No. This Agway is right
around the corner here (indicating).
THE CHAIRMAN: So I guess the first
thing we would say is we would grant them a
fence to a maximum 'height of six feet
without any extensions, and we are using
that phrase ... no barbed wire or razor wire
on top and in this particular case it is a
chain link fence. It is to be erected
approximately 22 feet from the building
towards~Youngs Avenue, the corner, that is
the south corner of the existing building,
and when we say 22 feet we are reflecting
inside the property line. We mean on their
property and running ...
MR. GRIGONIS: Doing the main part of
the building because this is ...
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay ... running a
distance not to exceed ... I see ... not to
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exceed about 70 feet .,.
70 feet,
MR. DOYEN: The question is why not
raise a top?
THE CHAIRMAN: Because it
horrendous in the front yard.
MR. DOYEN: For aesthetic
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. They
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running north about
looks
reasons.
told us
they plan on putting in green vinyl chain
link that looks fairly decorative in the
front yard area. We did not have any objec-
tions from any of the neighbors. So I can
see they do have a hardship there, because
'they evidently have had a problem with some
pilferage in the rear of the building.
MR. DOYEN: This is to protect ...
THE CHAIRMAN: ... their product. So
is to run again 70 feet north and back to
it
the building 22 feet and enclosing the front
approximately two-thirds to three-quarters
of the front yard area. Is that correct?
MR. GRIGONIS:
THE CHAIRMAN:
have is that at the corner of
That is correct.
The only request we
the driveway
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coming off of Youngs Avenue,
ings be held back a distance
ly ten feet, and the
Youngs Avenue, so as
coming traffic.
(Whereupon, there was
held off the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN:
the phrase is.
MR. DINIZIO:
THE CHAIRMAN:
it
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that the plant-
of approximate-
same to the north on
to get a view of on-
a discussion
Site easement is what
Sounds good.
And the restriction is
is not to be moved.
MR. DOYEN: Is that Agway being moved
bY the corporation?
THE CHAIRMAN: It is a cooperative.
MR. DOYEN: Do they have a manager?
THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know how their
real managers deal with it anymore. ! think
it is really a corporation.
Who wants to make the motion?
MR. GRIGONIS: I will make it.
MR. DINIZIO: I second.
THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor?
MR. GRIGONIS: Aye.
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MR. DOYEN: Aye.
MR. DINIZIO:
THE CHAIRMAN:
Aye.
Let the record show
that Mr. Grigonis made the motion and it was
seconded by Mr. Dinizio.
The second one is Mr. Malone, an
application over here on North Sea Drive.
Mr. Serge, you were not here for this one,
but Mr. Malone was gracious enough to come
out and meet with us ... very nice man.
This is the place that we went down to, the
farewell party for Linda. His is the next
driveway to the northeast and they are
'~uilding a house next-door and it is about
three, maybe five houses on this, or five or
six lots~on this right-of-way, and interest-
ingly enough, he owns half of the right-of-
way and the fellow across the street owns
the other half.
He is seeking to construct a six foot
high fence, and my mind escapes me if there
are fences to the distance, but I believe he
said it was 70 feet.
MR. DINIZIO: Yes, no further than
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that, I think.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, I've got 30 here.
(Whereupon, there was a discussion
off the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, the problem is
we have a placement where to place it; and
number two, do we want to screen it; and
number three, do we want to?
MR. DOYEN:
screen?
THE CHAIRMAN:
What do you mean by
I asked him if it was
going to be graduated six feet. In other
words, starting at four and going up to six
and going back down again.
MR. DOYEN: Yes. Would you do that?
THE CHAIRMAN: Just to make it a
little more decorative because it is in his
front yard. He said no.
MR. DOYEN: The front yard is not on
the corner.
THE CHAIRMAN:
MR. DINIZIO:
front yard.
THE CHAIRMAN:
No.
It is definitely in the
The side of his house
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faces west, and it is really the side of his
house which is the front yard. We all know
across the street we granted this gentlemen
a trellis to put up to shade ... to keep his
driveway clear of the restaurant next-door.
MR. DOYEN: I think that a six foot
fence basically is to keep a clear view on
the corner more than anything else, don't
you?
MR.
look at it
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
DOYEN: So it is not a horror to
and it is
THE CHAIRMAN:
not on the corner.
Okay. He said he
was going to place it approximately five
feet ... didn't he say that ... five feet
... of the right-of-
... which, of course,
have to worry about
people having the right to
inside ...
MR. DINIZIO:
way ...
THE CHAIRMAN:
he owns. So we don't
that, about other
go over it.
MR. DINIZIO: He is going to place
that ten feet from the center of the right-
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of-way.
THE CHAIRMAN:
into the property.
MR. DOYEN:
Which is five feet
He is not going to cut
off the view from his driveway coming in and
out.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
MR. DOYEN: That is where it should
be four feet and scale up to six feet.
THE CHAIRMAN: He doesn't want to do
that. I asked him that question.
MR. DOYEN: Well, the purpose of the
four feet is for view.
THE CHAIRMAN: Well, the purpose of
this is to shield it from the house next-
door which is three stories and overlooks
his entire yard.
MR. DOYEN:
think that
coming out
That is what he is saying.
Okay. I still don't
is a very good idea. You are
on the blind. All of a sudden
you've got a six
bile. He cannot
THE COURT:
want
foot fence and an automo-
see it coming out.
Well, that is where you
to graduate an eight foot section on
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both sides.
MR. DOYEN: Well, I don't know. I
would think so, so people could see him
approaching a public thoroughfare.
THE CHAIPJ4AN: ... doesn't come out.
This is the right-of-way he owns. He owns
the center lot.
(Whereupon, there was a discussion
held off the record.)
So this is his driveway
Right.
MR. DOYEN:
here (indicating).
THE CHAIRMAN:
MR. DOYEN: Who would be using this
~.. certainly they could not see him coming
out. That is what I am getting at. If the
fence is~... I don't know. That is just one
thought in the matter.
THE CHAIRMAN: That is why I
asked
the question. You go over to the one we
just granted down in Southold, up here in
... what is the name of that development,
the new one? We granted the fellow the same
thing. He had a dead-end road, on the one
side.
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MR. DOYEN:
consideration the traffic, whatever,
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It was just to take into
if
there was practically no traffic.
THE CHAIRMAN: If I was he, I would
not have erected this.
out and bought bushes and greens.
wouldn't care if they grow to 20
I would have gone
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feet high.
The ones you have on your house in Fisher's
Island.
MR. DOYEN: I care.
THE CHAIRMAN: Then you can sympa-
thize with the man.
MR. DINIZIO: He wants a six foot
fence. I see no problem with him having it.
MR. GRIGONIS: If it is chain link
you can ~ee right through it.
MR. DOYEN: That defeats the purpose.
THE CHAIRMAN: So in writing this
decision we would say that the fence starts
approximately 30 feet, okay, from the
beginning of his property adjacent
right-of-way.
would then say
exceed approximately
Okay. Would we say
that the fence is not to
70 lineal feet in
to the
that? We
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length. Is that
MR. DOYEN:
going to be here,
correct?
On the map, is this
starting right here
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(indicating), approximately 30 feet?
THE CHAIRMAN: It is going to be from
here to here (indicating).
MR. DOYEN: Well, what I am getting
at is where he is coming out, here and here
(indicating), ~urther back ... he gets the
~ence ... when he is coming out to the car.
THE CHAIRMAN: Right. The point is,
what Serge is saying is that the fence
should be placed on his own property line.
It should not be placed on the right-of-
way. Even though a person owns a right-of-
way, we~have never placed a fence on a
right-of-way. MR. DINIZIO: Let's put him
back four or five feet.
THE C~AIRMAN: We have to say he has
to establish his fence on his own property.
He can be six inches in. It can be four
inches in. But it is going to be on the
beginning of his property, not on the right-
of-way.
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MR. DOYEN: Just as long
stick his nose out.
THE CHAIRMAN:
on his own property,
monuments,
MR.
anyway.
THE CHAIRMAN:
to exceed 70 feet in length,
as he can
We would establish it
inside on his own
on his own property.
DOYEN: You would have to,
It is as we said, not
and not to
exceed 6 feet in height.
MR. DOYEN: What
say ... in his own land,
you are trying to
as opposed.
THE CHAIRMAN: On his own property,
exclusive of the right-of-way. All right.
We will use the phrase "exclusive of the
right-of!way."
(Whereupon, there was a discussion
held off the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Not to exceed
in length and 6 feet in height.
(Whereupon, there was a discussion
held off the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Exclusive of the
right-of-way ... if he questions you about
70 feet
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that just tell him we have to allow fire
vehicles to pass and they will pass and if
the fence is in the way they will knock it
down. Does anybody have any problem with
that?
You East Enders, anybody would like
to grant that?
Charlie ... I see his hand up.
MR. GRIGONIS: Okay.
MR. DINIZIO: I second.
THE CHAIRMAN: All in favor?
MR. GRIGONIS: Aye.
MR. DOYEN: Aye.
MR. DINIZIO: Aye.
THE CHAIRMAN: Let's go on to ...
MR. DINIZIO: We have to address this
next calendar. Right. I've got a real
problem with one of the people on this
calendar as to whether or not we should even
hear the hearing.
Partners.
about
zone
That's the Jordan's
THE CHAIRMAN: I think we can talk
... they are asking us to change a
on that place. What are we going
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to do?
MR. DINIZIO: We are not going to
grant them what they want and they are going
to be hurt.
THE CHAIRMAN: No. Let's look at it
practically. We had a similar situation and
that was should we hear it or shouldn't we
hear it. You know we have to hear it.
MR. DOYEN: We are bound to hear
anything no matter how ridiculous.
THE CHAIRMAN: Don't jump at it, at
what we are looking to be on the surface.
(Whereupon, there was a discussion
held off the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: The framework o~ what
we are r~erring to is use.
MR. DINIZIO: He is coming to us
claiming hardship that the Town created.
The only hardship here is the hardship that
the Town changed the zone of
middle o~ this.
MR. DOYEN: We cannot
him in the
in e~fect
change a zone, and no matter how that is
coming about that is where we are
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coming from.
THE CHAIRMAN:
Do me a favor. On
this one, I will give you full authority to
take the file and go over to Frank Isler's
office within the next couple of weeks and
we will pull it, if you want to pull it
until ...
(Whereupon,
the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: I had a discussion
with Frank Isler today. Can you go over
there tomorrow?
MR. DINIZIO:
hospital tomorrow.
to make it there until next week.
MR. DOYEN:
MR. DINIZIO:
be home.
THE CHAIRMAN:
be in the hospital
tion.
MR. DOYEN:
so what?
MR.
a discussion was held off
No. I will be at the
I probably won't be able
I said next week. I said
It's already Thursday.
DINIZIO: Go ahead and put it on
His wife is going to
tomorrow for an opera-
It is Friday.
My wife and kids will
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and I will handle
THE CHAIRMAN:
Frank Islet about it?
MR. DINIZIO:
feelings on this is
it my way.
You want to
speak to
By all means. My
that it may appear to
this person that we are holding him up
again. In other words, it is just like it
is one more thing this gentleman ...
more hurdle he has to cross again.
want that apparent.'
to go and we decide
to go, this man has wasted a few more months
and
way.
one
I don't
If this is not the way
that it is not the way
I don't want the Town to appear that
MR. DOYEN: We want to know where we
are coming from by the time of the hearing.
THE CHAIRMAN:
lng.
Not before the hear-
would like to ... if
... I don't know if it
MR. DINIZIO: I
it comes to the point
will ... that we should not hear this, that
this is not within our jurisdiction and a
lawyer says so ...
MR. DOYEN: There is nothing that we
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cannot hear. I mean, there is nothing as
far as jurisdiction goes, but we have to
hear anything anybody wants.
MR. DINIZIO:
heard, fine.
MR. DOYEN:
If he wants to be
Apparently, he does.
MR. DINIZIO: But is it necessary he
be heard or should he be going to somebody
else?
THE CHAIRMAN: Let me give you an
example. Joe Louzinski (phonetic spelling)
came before us.
came
MR. DINIZIO: Several times.
THE CHAIRMAN: But the first time he
in with his project, down at Cutchogue,
we heard ~%m. You know he did a good job
himself explaining to us what he was build-
ing down there and we determined okay, that
it was not within our jurisdiction to grant
him a variance to operate this health club
because he was not in the proper zone. He
was not in the proper zone.
He then sought relief from the Town
Board and he went to the Town Board and they
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changed the zone to the business zone. Then
he came back to us for the special exception
and we granted it because it was within our
purview.
At this particular point I am not
trying to draw similarities between both
cases, but this is the type of situation we
have to deal with.
MR. DINIZIO: Let's deal with it,
I would like to talk to Frank about
then.
it.
MR. DOYEN: You should, absolutely.
THE CHAIRMAN: I would like you to
take the time but you have to understand
once this is advertised people are going to
come in ~nd look for the file. So I am
dealing with the zoning right now and that
is the one I am targeting on.
MR. DINIZIO: Let's feel free. I
mean, that is one of the basic advantages we
have at this point. Once that plug is
pulled ... it may be once the person who was
just hired has been established then we have
a tremendous problem. I don't really see
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any problem.
THE CHAIRMAN: That's not true.
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The
person you spoke
completely objective.
Number two is
to you want to make sure is
That's number one.
to give you the best
possible legal advice you can possibly get.
MR. DOYEN: Who is this?
THE CHAIRMAN: Frank Isler from Frank
Yakaboski's office, our special counsel.
MR. DINIZIO: If I can't get to it
this week I will get to it the week after.
THE CHAIRMAN: So Subsection 2,
tentatively we will set these down for a
'hearing, which is known as 1 through 11, for
the 15th of March to come in at 7:30 p.m.
The only~one that we may tentatively remove
is Michael Herbert, and we will check with
the Town Attorney.
(Whereupon, a discussion was held off
the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: So what we are going
to do is we will check with Matt, because I
mean if Michael calls me tomorrow ... there
is no way I can have discussed it with Matt.
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That brings us to another situation
and that is Gus Wade, on February 6th of
this year. We determined that there was a
preliminary action for the acceptance of the
Wade file which is Appeal Ntunber .,. I don't
have the Appeal Number.
(Whereupon, there was a discussion
held off the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: At this particular
point in time we have spent ... this is a
February 22 date circulating, this prelimi-
nary notice of lead agency. We have heard
back from the Planning Board which says they
'have no objection to our taking lead agency
status.
W~ have heard from the Trustees and
we are of the understanding that the ap-
plication they had before them has been
withdrawn, and I feel that possibly they
should be a cooperating agency at this
point, on this particular project, not-
withstanding the letter I have
which should be placed in that
MR. DOYEN:
before me
record.
Okay, but you can't have
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both ways against the Trustees. Here are
we. We are requesting that the SEQRA and
all involved agencies suspend action on this
matter.
THE CHAIRMAN: Right.
MR. DOYEN: So technically, if the
guy wanted to push it and he wanted to be
heard before us, we couldn't turn that one
down any more than the other ones.
THE CHAIRMAN: Except that based upon
this letter from the Town Trustees I am
suggesting tonight as a matter, and I will
recommend to you, that we write a letter to
Mr. Wade indicating the receipt of this
letter from the Trustees and send him a copy
and telling him ... and asking him how he
would like us to proceed. And that is
basically does he want us to have a public
hearing or does he not want us to have a
public hearing at this point?
MR. DOYEN: What was his application
before?
THE CHAIRMAN: 280A, which is a
bridge from the Town road to his property.
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MR. DOYEN: He has been issued a
building permit already.
THE CHAIRMAN: No. The building
permit was revoked in 1984 or '85.
MR. DOYEN: By whom?
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THE CHAIRMAN: Victor Lessard.
MR. DOYEN: On what grounds?
THE CHAIRMAN: I assume it was im-
properly issued.
(Whereupon, there was a discussion
held off the record.)
MR. DINIZIO: They considered access
over the water at the time to be ...
at,
MR. DOYEN: That's what I'm getting
If that was a water access that would
maybe satisfy 280A by some standards in by
that case ...
(Whereupon, there was a discussion
held off the record.)
THE CHAIRMAN: In dealing with this
letter, I would like to establish the fact
that we do have lead agency status. And I
will afford anybody that would like to, that
does not have their copy of the State
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Environmental Quality Review Act. If you
don't have it, you can find it from the last
time we did it. I am affording you another
copy·
MR. DOYEN: Very good.
THE CHAIRMAN: On the 15th we will
establish the type of agency we are going to
be dealing with or the status of this par-
ticular lead agency·
tion.
part, yes.
MR. DOYEN:
THE CHAIRMAN:
That is
You mean the informa-
The informational
right on the 15th day,
maximum limit. So at this point, for all
intents and purposes, I will make a motion
to estab{ish lead agency status charge.
MR. DINIZIO: Second.
MR. GRIGONIS: Aye.
MR. DOYEN: Aye.
MR. DINIZIO: Aye.
THE CHAIRMAN: Bearing in mind we
have read this letter from Mr. Wade, I
suggest we right a letter to Mr. Wade in-
dicating to him based upon the letter from
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the Town Trustees that we are
to him which way he would like
with his application.
on the SEQRA process,
want us to go public
25
leaving it up
us to proceed
This has no bearing
and that it doesn't
hearing with this. We
are not making any positive decision and I
intend to put this in the letter to him
based upon the letter from the Trustees that
they have denied him twice on this applica-
tion, on his own application, for the
traversing of the property.
MR. DOYEN: Just one comment for the
record: This is a very tricky thing because
in effect if he is denied the use of his
I, Gail Roschen, do hereby certify that I am
an Official Court Reporter and that the foregoing
constitutes a true and correct transcript according
to my official stenographic notes.
CAlL ROSCHEN
Official Court Reporter
property that brings up a whole other can of
worms. ~
(Time noted: 8:23 p.m.)
Southolcl Town Board of Appeals
MAIN ROAD- STATE ROAD i~5 SOUTHOLD, L.I., N.Y. 11~'71
TELEPHONE (516) 765-1809
APPEALS BOARD
MEMBERS
GERARD P. GOEHRINGER, CHAIRMAN
CHARLES GRIGONIS, JR.
SERGE DOYEN, JR.
JOSEPH H. SAWlCKI
JAMES DINIZIO, JR.
A~TION OF THE BOARD OF APPEALS
App1. No. 3910
Matter of SOUTHOLD AGWAYo Variance to the Zoning Ordinance,
Article XXIII, Section 100-230 C (1), Section 100-231 A, for
permission to construct a 6 ft. high fence in front yard area.
Property Location: 1705 Youngs Avenue, Southold, County Tax Map
No. 1000, Section 60, Block 1, Lot 5.
WHEREAS, a public hearing was held and concluded on
February 15, 1990 in the matter of the Application of SOUTHOLD
AGWAY under Appeal No. 3910; and
WHEREAS, at said hearing all those who desired to be heard
were heard and their testimony recorded; and
WHEREAS, the Board Members have personally viewed and are
familiar with the premises in question, its present zoning, and
~he surrounding areas; and
WHEREAS, the Board made the following findings of fact:
1. The premises in question located along the west side
of Youngs Avenue, Town of Southold, and is identified on the
Suffolk County Tax Maps as District 1000, Section 60, Block 1,
Lot 5.
2. This is an application for Variances from the zoning
Code Article XXIII, Section 100-230 C (1), Section 100-231 A,
for permission to construct a 6 ft. high fence in front yard
area.
Page 2 - Appl. No. 3910
Matter of Southold Agway
Decision rendered March 1, 1990
3. Article XXIII, Section 100-230 C (1), C. Exceptions to
yard requirements.
(1) Permitted obstructions. Cornices or cantilevered
roofs may project not more than (2) feet into a required yard.
Belt Courses, windowsills and other ornamental features may
project not more than six (6) inches into a required yard.
Fences or walls not over four (4) feet in height may be erected
anywhere on the lot, except as set forth in 100-232 herein.
Paved terraces, steps and walks (other than such as are needed
for access to the buildings on the lot) shall not project within
fifteen (15) feet of a street line or four (4) feet of property
line.
4. The property in question
Industrial" Zone District and will
Acres.
is located in the "Light
contain an area of 4.2337
5. In considering this application, the Board finds and
determines:
(a) that the circumstances of this
uniquely related to the premises and its
nonconformities;
application are
established
(b) that there is no other method for appellants to
pursue; and placing the 6 ft. high fence anywhere in the front
yard will require other variance relief;
(c) that the area chosen for the fence is not unreasonably
located;
(d) that the variance will not in turn cause a substantial
effect on the safety, health, welfare, comfort, convenience
and/or order of the Town;
(e) that in carefully considering the record and all the
above factors, the interests of justice will be served by
granting the variance, as applied conditionally noted below.
Accordingly, on motion by Mr. Grigonis, Seconded by Mr.
Dinizio, it was
n~ge % ~npl No, Sql0
Matter of SOUTHOLD AGWAY
Decision rendered on March 1,
1990
RESOLVED, to GRANT a Variance in the matter of the
application of SOUTHOLD AGWAY as applied under Appeal No. 3910
for the placement of a chain link fence 6 ft. in height, SUBJECT
TO THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
1. That the chain link fence not exceed 6 ft. in height
and not contain razor wire or bob wire.
2. That the chain link fence be 22 ft. from the building
Cowards Youngs Avenue and that the south corner be inside the
property line 20 ft.
3, That the chain link fence not exceed 70 ft. running
north and not enclose front door of said building.
4. That plantings be placed 18 ft. back inside fence if
elevated above ground, for a sight easement at the corner of the
driveway for when entering/exiting onto Youngs Avenue and fence
enclosement remain unroofed.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Goehringer, Grigonis,
Doyen and Dinizio (Absent Joseph Sawicki). This resolution was
duly adopted.
df
GERARD P. GOEH~INGER, CHAIRMAN