HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-04/11/2022 PH 1
1 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
jr COUNTY OF SUFFOLK: STATE OF NEW YORK
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3
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
4 PLANNING BOARD MEETING
5 THE ENCLAVES HOTEL
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6
7
8 Southold, New York
9 April 11, 2022
6 : 00 P . M .
10
11
12
B E F 0 R E :
�- 13
14
Donald Wilcenski , Chairman
15
Martin Sidor, Member
16
Pierce Rafferty, Member
17
Mia Jealous-Dank, Member
18
James Rich, III , Member
19
20 Heather Lanza, Planning Director
21 Mark Terry, Assistant Planning Director
22 Jessica Michaelis , Senior Office Assistant
23
24
25
April 11, 2022 2
1 THE ENCLAVES HOTEL
2 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : We have
3 one public hearing tonight . This is the
4 Enclaves Hotel . Let me get my stuff in
5 order here today . Before we get
6 started, let me read the description
7 first . The Enclaves Hotel , this
8 proposed site plan is for the
9 construction of a 44 unit two-story
10 hotel , which is 62 , 338 square feet ,
11 including 59, 962 square feet in the main
12 building . 2 , 376 square feet in four
13 detached cottages , a full basement ,
14 accessory meeting/event , personal
15 services spaces , an outdoor swimming
16 pool and a conversion of a two-story
17 dwelling to a 74 seat restaurant , which
18 is 3 , 610 square feet, with a total of
19 132 parking spaces on a 6 . 75 acre parcel
20 in the Hamlet Business Zoning District .
21 The property is located at 56655 New
22 York State Route 25 in Southold,
23 SCTM# 1000-63-3-15 . Before I have the
24 applicant and the applicant ' s agent
25 speak, I just want to make a couple of
April 11, 2022 3
1 notations . Just bear with me one
2 second . Okay . This application, the
3 subject property is a zoned in Hamlet
4 Business . The ZBA has lead agency,
5 completed and conducted SEQRA. A
6 Special Exception was granted on
7 12 /6/21 . And there were six conditions
8 that were to be met . I ' ll read those
9 conditions . I ' m reading these
10 conditions so everybody could be aware
11 of exactly what they are being held to
12 and agreed to . The first is no outdoor
13 events of any size shall be permitted ori
14 the subject property . No special events
15 as defined in Chapter 205 which is a
16 Public Entertainment Special Events
17 Chapter in the code, shall be permitted .
18 Again, no special events shall be
19 permitted on the subject property.
20 Number Three, no large events defined --
21 as defined in the FEIS , which is the
22 Final Environmental Impact Statement , as
23 events over 100 guests are not permitted
24 on the subject property . Small indoor
25 events that are accessory or incidental
April 11, 2022 4
1 to the principal hotel use shall be
2 permitted. Small events are defined as
3 events under 100 guests . Number Four,
4 no expansion of the number of approved
5 hotel units shall be permitted . Number
6 Five, proposed hotel amenities include
7 but are not limited to the indoor pool ,
8 spa, fitness facility, the outdoor pool,
9 hot tubs , and cabanas , and the rooftop
10 bar and lounge are all limited to the
11 use by overnight hotel guests only, as
12 accessories to the principal hotel use,
13 and shall not be available for the use
14 of the general public .
15 Just want to make that clear . All
16 those uses , the spa, the outdoor pool,
17 the hot tubs , cabanas , rooftop bar and
18 lounge are only to be used by the
19 patrons of the hotel . Not open to the
20 public . No outdoor music is permitted
21 anywhere on the subject property . Those
22 were the final determinations or
23 covenants -- conditions , I ' m sorry, put
24 on the approval by the ZBA. With that
25 said, I just like to add a couple of
April 11, 2022 5
1 other notes . Planning Board has
2 reviewed all the information that was
3 written up over the last three years by
4 the ZBA, and going through the process
5 and the questions that were answered on
6 all of their findings . And with that
7 said, I would like to open the floor
8 with the applicant and the applicant ' s
9 agent , to address the Board with their
10 project . Another note, the Planning
11 Board is beginning site plan review .
12 We ' ve started some referrals , but we
13 were somewhat at the beginning of the
14 site plan process . So with that, I ' ll
15 open it up to the applicant ' s agent, and
16 after he presents that to us , anybody
17 who would like to speak to the Planning
18 Board, you can step to one of the
19 podiums , state your name, write your
20 name for the record, and direct all your
21 comments and concerns to the Board.
22 Thank you .
23 DAVID ALTMAN : Thank you,
24 Mr . Chair, fellow Board members . Good
25 evening . For the applicant, I am David
April 11, 2022 6
1 Altman from the Law Offices of Brown,
2 Altman, Delio . My firm address is 538
3 Broad Hollow Road, Suite 301W, Melville,
4 New York . Before I make my
5 presentation, and my presentation is
6 brief, in that , I think you folks really
7 want to hear from the design
8 professionals with me here tonight ,
9 Andrew Giambertone from Giambertone
10 Architects , and Bryan Grogan from PW
11 Grocer, our civil engineer . I ' m just
12 going to hand in the original green card
13 mailing receipts and certified receipts .
14 We submitted electronic copies the other
15 day. So I ' ll just hand them to .
16 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
17 you .
18 DAVID ALTMAN : Thank you,
19 Mr . Chair . I appreciate the comments .
20 Actually, in large part, you sort of
21 preempted a number of remarks I was
22 going to make, but I ' ll just go through
23 very briefly nonetheless . Property
24 itself, which is 56655 Main Road in
25 Southold, is known by the Tax Map
April 11, 2022 7
1 Number . District 1 , 000 , Section 63 ,
2 Block 3 , Lot 15 . Is currently zoned
3 Hamlet Business . It has a lot area of
4 6 . 75 acres or 294 , 202 square feet . Lot
5 width of approximately 190 . 66 feet , and
6 an average lot depth of approximately
7 928 . 3 feet . Fairly large lot . As
8 mentioned, it is situated in the Hamlet
9 Business District . The proposed
10 project, which consists of a 44 unit
11 hotel development, two stories in
12 nature, and a 74 seat retail restaurant,
13 which the retail restaurant will be open
14 to the public . I ' ll note that the
15 retail restaurant is the former Hedges
16 DB building . That building is at the
17 southern portion of the property and
18 front on Main Road . As the Chair
19 mentioned, there are 44 units in the
20 hotel consisting of 40 hotel rooms and
21 four cabanas . I must say that, and make
22 this comment in front of the Planning
23 Board, and I think it bears reiterating,
24 I think the hotel and restaurant use
25 have been carefully considered for this
April 11, 2022 8
1 site . It is modest in terms of its size
2 and scope . Given the overall size of
3 the property itself . The restaurant, as
4 I mentioned, will be located in the
5 former Hedges DB building situated on
6 the south . And that building will be
7 refurbished and updated consistent with
8 its historic character . That has
9 already been reviewed and approved upon
10 by the New York State Office of Historic
11 Preservation several years ago .
12 Approximately 3 . 75 , almost 4 acres of
13 the site will actually remain green
14 space . So it will be actually more
15 green than there will be in terms of
16 buildings that are related to paved
17 surface improvements . One of the things
18 to note about the project , and I think
19 the applicant has really been very
20 careful consideration to this , and
21 Mr . Giambertone will described in a
22 little more detail for you, is that the
23 site itself will be extensively planted
24 and buffered . Such that you will be
25 able to obviously see that the
April 11, 2022 9
1 restaurant use from Main Road, but there
2 is going to be a substantial privet
3 edge . Behind that, the hotel itself
4 with the exception of the stone barn
5 will not be visible from Main Road . The
6 site will also be screened along its
7 north, south, and you know, west , east
8 and west lot lines . Lighting will be
9 dark skies compliant . Another thing to
10 note , and I mentioned this at the BZA
11 proceedings as well , this application
12 was variance free . There` was no
13 variance relief sought here, and the
14 site itself and the development reports
15 with the Town ' s bulk zoning partner
16 requirements for the handle of Business
17 District and for low use . Wastewater
18 will be treated by a new
19 state-of-the-art onsite septic system.
20 And Mr . Grogan can discuss that in a
21 little more detail . Portable water will
22 be available through Suffolk County
23 Water Authority. And irrigation for
24 onsite plants will be done through an
25 onsite well . Existing utilities are
April 11, 2022 10
1 already in place and available . Access
2 to the site will be gained via two curb
3 cuts . There will be one on the east
4 side of the property and one towards the
5 west . The easterly curb cut will be
6 ingress only . And the westerly curb cut
7 will be egress only . Jurisdiction as to
8 the curb cuts and any improvements
9 within the roadway, and it ' s
10 right-of-way, is subject to New York
11 State DOT jurisdiction . Applications
12 are currently pending with the DOT .
13 Mr . Chair, as you mentioned, the
14 BZA, by decision dated December 6th of
15 ' 21 , granted a Special Exception Permit
16 for the hotel use . The BZA' s decision
17 was the product of more than three and a
18 half years of review under a coordinated
19 SEQRA review . Meaning all involved
20 agencies or potentially involved
21 agencies were consulted and offered
22 their comment as part of the review
23 process . It was an extremely extensive
24 and time consuming review . Nonetheless ,
25 the application was approved by the BZA.
April 11, 2022 11
1 And it commensurate with that on
2 October 7th of 2021 , the BZA carefully
3 thought out a finding statement , issued
4 a 53-page finding statement detailing
5 its reasons for a positive
6 recommendation on the project . The
7 finding statement contains 16 different
8 enumerated findings commensurate with
9 SEQRA requirements . Wherein that Board
10 found that the Enclaves application
11 either did not result in a significant
12 impact or that the applicant effectively
13 mitigated potential adverse impacts , and
14 therefore, there will be no significant
15 adverse impacts . It is important to
16 note, I believe that the last finding
17 that the BZA issued in its finding
18 statement, was that the development
19 project that ' s now before this Board was
20 actually preferable to either a no-build
21 scenario or as of right development . On
22 December 6th, the Board, BZA, issued a
23 10-page written decision granting the
24 Enclaves application . As the Chair has
25 noted, that decision contained six
April 11, 2022 12
1 conditions , which have already been read
2 into the record. So no need to repeat .
3 Those conditions were to be memorialized
4 in the Declaration of Covenants and
5 Restrictions . And now that the Suffolk
6 County Clerk, three plus months later,
7 has finally gotten to it , the CNR ' s have
8 been reported . I ' ll hand in a copy of
9 the recording received just so the Board
10 has it for the record.
11 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Great .
12 Just a correction, you were referring to
13 the BZA as the ZBA. We all know what
14 you ' re saying . Thank you .
15 DAVID ALTMAN : Community character
16 of the area, generally mixed . We have
17 the Long Island Railroad right away, and
18 the tracks themselves to our north .
19 Single-family residential development
20 north of that . Single-family
21 residential development to the east . On
22 the south, we have Main Road . There is
23 a 7-11 convenience store directly across
24 the street with a mixture of retail and
25 service oriented businesses on the south
April 11, 2022 13
1 side . To the west, again, mixed retail
2 and service oriented business . And I
3 will note that there is also a fairly
4 large boat storage yard along the west
5 lot line . I would just note
6 tangentially that in connection with
7 this Town ' s site plan ordinance, I
8 believe that the Enclave project is
9 consistent with the stated objectives of
10 Section 281-29 and the architecture
11 review standards of Section 281-34 . And
12 with that, I ' m going to ask Mr .
13 Giambertone to come up and take you
14 through the architectural features of
15 the project .
16 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
17 you, Mr . Altman .
18 DAVID ALTMAN : Thank you .
19 ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : Mr . Chairman,
20 Ladies and Gentleman on Board . My name
21 is Andrew Giambertone representing the
22 applicant with offices at 62 Elm Street,
23 Huntington, New York . The Enclave
24 presented an opportunity to do a
25 development that would be from our
April 11, 2022 14
1 perspective , respected and responsible
2 in terms of what we were going to
3 achieve and how much of the site we
4 would use . Although 250 of the site is
5 required to be landscaped, we ' re
6 actually landscaping 560 of the site or
7 some 164 , 000 square feet of landscaping .
8 Where we ' re allowed to have 40% density,
9 we only have 18% lot coverage relative
10 to the code . So we looked at it from a
11 perspective of minimizing the impact of
12 the development on the site and using
13 the building itself to shield the
14 activity of the site from the
15 neighboring properties to the east . So
16 the premise was that just as the
17 original Bed and Breakfast had a
18 hedgerow behind the main building here,
19 we would move that hedgerow to the
20 property here . Effectively demising the
21 hotel property from the restaurant
22 property . Ingress into the site will be
23 made by the restaurant area . There ' ll
24 be parking dedicated for the restaurant
25 here . You ' ll continue down and drive
April 11, 2022 15
1 and then turn to be brought to the hotel
2 parking beyond . Between the hotel and
3 the hedgerow will be a one acre meadow
4 that will be kept free and open aside
5 from the event space that will be built
6 to the east side of it . There will be
7 in place rotating sculptures , local
8 artists and that type of thing . The
9 hotel itself is designed in an L-shaped
10 fashion and the purpose of that is once
11 again to screen the activity in the
12 center of the site from the neighboring
13 properties . Effectively along the east
14 property line, dense evergreen planting
15 will be installed to augment the
16 existing deciduous trees that are
17 located along there . They ' ll be planted
18 at the beginning of construction with
19 the goal of having them reach a
20 relatively mature height by the time the
21 site is developed . This side of the
22 building will have no operable windows
23 or doors or balconies facing neighbors
24 to the east . All that activity will
25 happen on the west side of the building .
April 11, 2022 16
1 In the lobby space here, there ' ll be an
2 open air floating dock that sits on a
3 manmade pond overlooking the meadow and
4 that ' s open to another open air space
5 overlooking the activity in the pool
6 area . To the far north of the site will
7 be four individual cottages each with
8 their own project garden and hot tub .
9 We ' ve provided ample parking as
10 Mr . Altman indicated. We ' ve got 132 car
11 parking for the space, which more than
12 complies to the parking regulations . In
13 terms of the building itself, we sought
14 to keep the building relatively low .
15 Although, you know, architecturally, a
16 number of the buildings in the area are
17 steeply pitched roofs . By keeping the
18 building to two-story ' s and a relatively
19 flat roof, we ' re able to limit the
20 visibility of the building from not only
21 from the Main Road, but from the
22 neighboring properties , as well as ,
23 anywhere else in Town . So the reality
24 is , other than this barn element that
25 you will see here, the building is
April 11, 2022 17
1 significantly screened from the road, as
2 well as , from the neighbors . We had a
3 meeting with the Architecture Review
4 Committee last week. At that meeting,
5 there were a number of suggestions
6 proctored by the Architecture Review
7 Committee . And as a result of that
8 meeting, we ' ve made some adjustments to
9 the design according to the file . One
10 of the things the Architecture Review
11 Committee suggested was that in lieu of
12 some of the more modern cut stone that
13 was being used on various elements of
14 the building, we consider a wood or a
15 other material that ' s more commonly
16 found in the area . After studying it a
17 bit conceptually, we ' re going to agree
18 to integrate wood cedar shakes on some
19 of the elements . We ' ve further
20 developed that and when we submit for
21 our final plan, you ' ll see that a number
22 of the buildings will be cedar shake .
23 The other portions of the building will
24 be rubble stone and a natural wood
25 surround . So we ' ve basically limited to
April 11, 2022 18
1 two primary materials at the behest of
2 the Architecture Review Committee .
3 Additionally, they asked that what was
4 mirrored glass slated for the east side
5 facade be changed to a tipped glass and
6 mirrored glass over the concerns of
7 potential sun glare the morning when the
8 sun comes up . We ' ve made that
9 concession and there will be no mirrored
10 glass along that eastern facade . And
11 the other concern they raised was that
12 although the site landscape plan
13 indicates a somewhat limited palette of
14 trees , and that was as dictated by the
15 DEC ' s requirement for the trees and old
16 plantings to be noninvasive native
17 species , we will augment that list with
18 trees that can be found on the DEC
19 approved list to add a greater variety
20 of both planting and trees located on
21 the site . The site has been well vetted
22 by the by the Zoning Board . I ' ve got
23 Bryan Grogan here from PW Grocer, who
24 will speak to the merits of the septic
25 treatment plan intended to greatly
April 11, 2022 19
1 reduce the nitrogen flow from this
2 project . And at this point, after
3 Bryan ' s presentation, I ' ll be happy to
4 address any questions the Board or the
5 community has .
6 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Okay .
7 Finish your presentation . Thank you .
8 BRYAN GROGAN : Good evening . I ' m
9 Bryan Grogan from PW Grocer Consulting,
10 630 Johnson Avenue, Suite 7 , Bohemia,
11 New York 11716 . We ' re the civil
12 engineers for the project . As David and
13 Andrew kind of put forth, our site
14 plan ' s kind of been well vetted through
15 the ZBA. They touched on a lot of -- we
16 are compliant with all of the
17 recommendations for the Hamlet Business
18 Zoning District with respect to front
19 yard, side yards , lot coverage . The
20 plan that we have before the Planning
21 Board has had a few changes . Mainly
22 with respect to the number of overall
23 parking stalls versus the one at the ZBA
24 had a greater number of stalls . As
25 originally, we were anticipating a 250
April 11, 2022 20
1 person event space . Those numbers
2 stalls have been reduced to 132 total
3 stalls , which exceeds the required
4 parking of 94 by the about 38 additional
5 stalls . And that was done to
6 accommodate additional guests during
7 that under 100 person event .
8 We ' ve upped the drainage design . With
9 respect to storm water drainage , has
10 been completed in compliance with Town
11 Code . We ' re currently working on a the
12 storm water pollution prevention plan
13 for New York State DEC for submissions
14 to the Town . We ' ve also modified the
15 lighting plan based upon comments
16 received from Mr . Cummings and Ms .
17 Lanza with respect to the Kelvin rating
18 for the lights of 2700 , as well as , the
19 overall lighting density per acre .
20 We ' re well under the 25 , 000 . We ' re
21 around 8500 per acre . Also, our
22 lighting plan shows our photometrics do
23 not exceed any of the thresholds along
24 the property lines . There ' s no bleed
25 over into the neighboring properties or
April 11, 2022 21
1 onto the street . And again, ,with
2 respect to traffic, we ' ve submitted our
3 plans and initial applications to DOT
4 for the curb cuts . We did conduct a
5 rather lengthy traffic impact statement
6 or study, as well as , a gap analysis ,
7 which yielded no recommendations with
8 respect to right or left turns out of
9 the facility . We had sufficient gaps in
10 the traffic to permit left turns and
11 successive left turns out of the
12 property, as well as , you know, rights .
13 And again, the only impact was during
14 the discharge of a larger . With respect
15 to the sewage treatment plant , we do
16 exceed the Health Department ' s allow
17 density on the property . Therefore,
18 we ' ve opted to construct a onsite sewage
19 treatment plant for the 9 , 570 gallons of
20 flow that the product has anticipated to
21 generate, as per the Health Department
22 standards . It would be a pure stream
23 BESST system, B-E-S-S-T, for
24 biologically engineered single sludge .
25 treatment . It is a widely used plant in
April 11, 2022 22
1 Suffolk County . It ' s been approved
2 probably a dozen times by the County,
3 and it is currently in review with them
4 for the technical design of that
5 treatment facility . That facility will
6 get a speedy ' s permit from the New York
7 State Department of DEC, with a
8 discharge limit of 10 milligrams per
9 liter of nitrogen, which is far lower
10 than a typical , you know conventional ,
11 sanitary system or even that of the new
12 IA systems of 19 milligrams per liter .
13 And as part of that permit , the
14 applicant has to hire a licensed
15 operator on an annual basis . They have
16 to have other financial assurances in
17 place to ensure the proper functioning
18 of that treatment system is maintained
19 at all times . Other than that, I think
20 that sums up everything that I had to
21 say. So that ' s point , I will turn it
22 back over to the Board .
23 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Okay .
24 So what we ' ll do --
25 ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : I just want to
April 11, 2022 23
= 1 add one thing .
2 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Okay .
3 Sure .
4 ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : Relative to
5 the Zoning Board ' s review during the
6 environmental impact statement, I just
7 want to state that they went through
8 extensive lengths to study the traffic
9 impact of this project . And if you look
10 at their finding statements between
11 Pages 22 and 28 , they identified the
12 measures they went through to review it ,
13 the mitigating accommodations we ' ve made
14 to address their concerns , and in their
15 finding statement the issue that they
16 ultimately decide the traffic that ' s not
17 posed a concern to the Zoning Board.
18 JESSICA MICHAELIS : Just state your
19 name again, please?
20 ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : Andrew
21 Giambertone .
22 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
23 you . Now we ' ll open it up to the floor
24 for the public . Please, if you ' d like
25 to speak, you could go to either podium.
April 11, 2022 24
1 State your name and write your name for
2 the record, and please address all your
3 comments to the Board . Thank you .
4 MARILYN DALY : Hi, I ' m Marilyn
5 Daly. I live at 500 Daly Lane . I have
6 a simple question and that is , do you
7 have projected costs for a traveler to
8 stay in the hotel or in the little
9 cottages ?
10 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Right
11 now, that ' s not part of our review . I
12 don ' t want to get into a question --
13 we ' ll make a list of questions and we ' ll
14 have them at the end answer some of the
15 open questions that we have . Okay . So
16 I ' ll mark that down and I ' m sure the
17 applicant ' s agent will have be ready for
18 that . Mr . Giambertone, make a note of
19 that?
20 ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : Sure .
21 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Anybody
22 else? Are you finished? Okay . Thank
23 you . Anyone else like to address the
24 Board? Please step to --
25 MARINA DELUCA: Good evening, Mr .
April 11, 2022 25
1 Chairperson Wilcenski and members of the
2 Planning Board . My name is Marina
3 DeLuca . I ' m an environmental associate
4 with a group for the East End . And I ' m
5 a full-time resident of East Marion . I
6 appreciate the opportunity to provide
7 comments on this proposal . The group
8 for the East End has been involved in
9 the review of this project since it was
10 in front of the Zoning Board of Appeals ,
11 and has expressed numerous concerns
12 largely related to the size and scale of
13 this project , as well as , its blatant
14 inconsistency with the recently adopted
15 Comprehensive Plan . We appreciate the
16 opportunity to provide our comments .
17 Our comments on the site plan before you
18 this evening . There are four
19 significant issues that I would like to
20 address in my testimony today, but we
21 request that you leave the public
22 comment period open so that we can
23 provide more extensive comments , and
24 those who are unable to be here this
25 evening will have the opportunity to
April 11, 2022 26
1 share their thoughts as well . Our first
2 concern is in regards to the future
3 event space, which has been indicated on
4 numerous plans . We believe that the
5 details of this event space must be
6 considered in your review and the
7 details of this use cannot be put off
8 for a later date . Information such as
9 the maximum capacity of the space and/or
10 the square footage of the building must
11 be provided for this review . We are
12 concerned that the Town will not be able
13 to enforce the ZBA' s determination of
14 limiting events to 100 people .
15 Especially if the event space itself can
16 hold well above that capacity . We would
17 also like to ask that the Planning Board
18 prohibit future expansion as a condition
19 of any approval the applicant receives .
20 Secondly, we would like to emphasize
21 that the Planning Board has
22 discretionary authority over the
23 approval of this project . We ask that
24 you use this authority to reconsider the
25 maximum density of this project . The
April 11, 2022 27
1 applicant ZBA ' s approval provided a
2 maximum density for this property;
3 however, given the contention of that
4 decision, which was not unanimous , we
5 ask that the Planning Board consider a
6 smaller project that is more congruent
7 with the Comprehensive Plan and the
8 character of Southold Town . Decreasing
9 the density of this project will help to
10 mitigate many of the environmental and
11 planning issues that have been raised
12 over the course of this project review .
13 The group along with many others have
14 raised concerns about the traffic --
15 traffic impacts of this project . With
16 the pandemic, we saw a significant rise
17 in traffic and as I ' m sure many of you
18 experience living in the town . We ask
19 that the Planning Board conduct their
20 own traffic study during peak season
21 using a consultant who is clearly
22 independent from the applicant ' s
23 consultants , to provide a truly
24 objective substance review . Lastly, the
25 architectural design of this project
April 11, 2022 28
1 appears completely in congruent with
2 downtown Southold ' s historic rural
3 character . The Comprehensive Plan
4 indicates in numerous sections the
5 importance of maintaining our Town ' s
6 community character and rural field . We
7 ask that the Planning Board utilize this
8 authority as it has in the past , to help
9 the applicant create a project that fits
10 with our community and the goals
11 outlined in the Comprehensive Plan . In
12 conclusion, the Board is aware of the
13 number of hotel proposals that are
14 coming forward and the scrutiny used to
15 review this project will set a precedent
16 for how following projects will be
17 treated . It ' s imperative that the
18 Planning Board apply the most stringent
19 level of review to a project of this
20 size and scale . Many people have shown
21 up to these meetings during the hearing
22 process with the ZBA and there are many
23 people who are here tonight . We ' re not
24 coming to these meetings for fun . We
25 have plenty of things to do . We ' re here
April 11, 2022 29
1 because we care about our town . We ' re
2 not afraid of change as the applicant
3 has said in previous testimony. We have
4 spent 10 years helping the town create a
5 Comprehensive Plan that showcases our
6 community ' s vision for the future .
7 These incoming projects , such as the one
8 before you this evening, do not reflect
9 that vision . This project , and I quote
10 from our supervisor, "is over the top . "
11 If we don ' t start taking a stand for our
12 community, pressing applicants to meet
13 the standards of the Comprehensive Plan,
14 we ' re quickly going to lose control of
15 our town . And once it ' s gone , we ' re
16 never going to get it back . If you
17 think I ' m being dramatic, you can take a
18 look at the rest of Long Island . Thank
19 you very much for your time and
20 consideration of our comments .
21 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
22 you very much for your comments .
23 JESSICA MICHAELIS : We have
24 somebody raising their hand on Zoom. Do
25 you want to let them in?
April 11, 2022 30
-- 1 CHAIRMAN DONALD .WILCENSKI : How
2 many do you have?
3 JESSICA MICHAELIS : I have one
4 person raising their hand .
5 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Okay .
6 If anybody else -- we ' ll take the one on
7 Zoom. And if anybody else would like to
8 speak, you can step to the other podium.
9 Okay . We ' re going to open up on Zoom.
10 We ' ll just hold on for one second .
11 JESSICA MICHAELIS : Nancy Butkus to
12 unmute --
13 NANCY BUTKUS : I just did . Hi . My
14 name is Nancy Butkus , B-U-T-K-U-S . I
15 live at 655 Town Harbor Lane . Very
16 close to the proposed development . I
17 guess my question is', you know,
18 obviously I ' ve been following this very
19 closely . And I was under the impression
20 that the ZBA had said there will be no
21 expansion and no outdoor events . And I
22 was surprised to see there ' s a proposal
23 for a new event space . I ' m a little
24 confused about that . I mean, why would
25 we want to encourage an event space when
April 11, 2022 31
1 events are not going to be allowed? And
2 secondly, this idea of having small
3 events of 100 people., which actually
4 doesn ' t seem that small to me at all,
5 who is going to monitor that there
6 aren ' t 150 or 200 people? That people
7 -- guests at the hotel don ' t invite
8 their friends , and suddenly, you know,
9 we ' ve got a large number . As far as I
10 know, Southold doesn ' t really have any
11 enforcement for these regulations . So
12 I ' m just curious how, you know, how
13 that ' s going to work. You know, once
14 it ' s built . And I would like to know
15 why this new event space is being
16 allowed? Thank you .
17 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Okay .
18 Thank you very much for your comments .
19 We will address those through this whole
20 process . I believe -- I ' m not -- I ' ll
21 be honest, I know the outside event
22 space was taken off . And we did see the
23 addition of the building . And I ' m not
24 sure if that went through the ZBA
25 review . We ' ll find out . We ' ll deal
April 11, 2022 32
1 with the applicants who will address
2 that through a site planning process and
3 then scrutinized as well .
4 NANCY BUTKUS : But why -- why is it
5 even on the plan? I don ' t understand
6 why it ' s on the plan .
7 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : We will
8 find that out . That ' s our job to take
9 all your comments and questions that you
10 have and everything that is , you know,
11 read into the minutes tonight is being
12 recorded . Everything will be addressed
13 and answered and be available publicly .
14 NANCY BUTKUS : Okay . And just my
15 second question about in terms of, you
16 know, controlling the size of 100
17 people . Which that ' s to me, you know,
18 at least 50 cars pulling out of the
19 driveway . Who is going to enforce that
20 regulation?
21 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Well ,
22 it will be the Code Enforcement . It
23 would be complaint driven, and it would
24 be responsible --
25 NANCY BUTKUS : So in other words ,
April 11, 2022 33
1 those of us who live in the neighborhood
2 who might be aware that there ' s a big
3 crowd and it might be noisy, whatever --
4 so is it up to us local people to call
5 the -- and who would we call? I mean,
6 I ' m just confused about how this is --
7 you know, how we ' re going to be able to
8 enforce these regulations ?
9 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : The
10 owners of this application are obviously
11 presenting this as goodwill . Like
12 everyone else does . And what we ' re
13 going to do is obviously leave it open
14 to a process of local government . And
15 if there ' s a complaint , either the
16 police get called if it ' s , you know, out
17 of hours . And the code enforcement will
18 be sent to talk to the owners and
19 rectify the problem.
20 NANCY BUTKUS : So in other words if
21 I notice there are a lot of people back
22 there and it ' s loud, I would call the
23 police and then they would contact a
24 code enforcement person or does the
25 police go there --
April 11, 2022 34
1 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : That ' s
2 right .
3 NANCY BUTKUS : And what the police
4 would go and prevent an event when it ' s
5 happening? I mean they can make people
6 leave? I ' m a little bit -- and is there
7 a fine? Is there any -- you know, in
8 terms of, if this is something that they
9 you know for whatever reason slips under
10 the radar, I mean what are the
11 consequences for the -- for the hotel
12 owners? Will there be fines? Will
13 there be, you know, any kind of
14 disciplinary action?
15 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : All of
16 that is handled under the Town
17 Attorney ' s Office, which handles the
18 code enforcement unit in town . And
19 obviously your concerns that you ' ve
20 raised, we will address those as well
21 through the site plan process . I don ' t
22 really want to go into the real
23 particulars of how the code enforcement
24 works . I mean, the Town Attorney ' s
25 Office is responsible for the code
April 11, 2022 35
1 enforcement . And if the code
2 enforcement is not available, the police
3 are called and the names in turn get in
4 touch with the code enforcement . And
5 with that said, we will look into this
6 more through our site plan process , but
7 that ' s a quick answer to your concerns .
8 NANCY BUTKUS : Okay . Thank you
9 very much .
10 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
11 you . Yes , sir . State your name . Write
12 your name for the record.
r 13 JOEL RYMAN : My name is Joel Ryman .
14 I live in Peconic . I have two concerns .
15 One is the, I ' m sure the Board, the Town
16 Planning has looked into the enormity
17 and the size of the project . There are
18 40 units . That ' s larger than the hotel
19 and Greenport, which. has 30 some odd
20 units . It ' s not quite as big as
21 Soundview, but Soundview had to take
22 traffic abatement steps up on 48 to
23 subdue the traffic . So with this
24 project and with the hotel , we ' re going
25 to change the traffic pattern in
April 11, 2022 36
1 Southold forever . I can ' t see any other
2 reason or answer to that . And the
3 second one is , in their attempt to hide
4 this project from the public, they ' re
5 going to surround it with foliage . We
6 have a deer population . Deer all over
7 and foliage . So how many years will it
8 take before the foliage and the hidden
9 project will be gone . Thank you .
10 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
11 you . Please sign your name .
12 JOEL RYMAN : I did.
13 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Okay.
14 Thank you . Would anybody else like to
15 address the Board? Yes . You can step
16 to that podium.
17 MARGARET STEINBUGLER: Good
18 evening, Mr . Chairman and members of the
19 Planning Board . My name is Margaret
20 Steinbugler . I live in the Hamlet of
21 Southold at 1405 Cedar Beach Road. I ' m
22 here to discuss the Traffic Impact
23 Study . Traffic ' s been discussed a lot
24 this evening . I happen to have spent
25 much of the last four or five days doing
April 11, 2022 37
1 a very thorough review of the Traffic
2 Impact Study that was performed by Dunn
3 Engineering back in 2019 . Based on my
4 study, I have reason to believe the
5 Traffic Impact Study has flaws , that led
6 to a potentially incorrect conclusion .
7 I believe that the estimations for
8 traffic generated by the restaurants are
9 understated . They were calculated using
10 the number of seats in the restaurant .
11 According to the Institute of Traffic of
12 Transportation Engineering, trips can
13 also be estimated based on the square
14 footage of the restaurant . Using the
15 square footage, the traffic generated by
16 the restaurant is higher . I believe the
17 traffic generation calculations in the
18 traffic impact study understate the
19 traffic generated by the hotel . I was ,
20 in the case of the restaurant, able to
21 reproduce the report ' s numbers . So I
22 felt like my system and my method were
23 on track. Using the Institute of
24 Transportation Engineering ' s Manual and
25 Ninth Edition Handbook Data, I was
April 11, 2022 38
1 unable to reproduce the numbers of
2 traffic trips generated by the hotel . I
3 was able to find reasonable trip
4 generation rates in the handbook . I was
5 able to make estimates of the trips
6 generated by the hotel . And they are
7 higher than what is listed in the
8 traffic impact study performed by Gross
9 Engineering . The Traffic Impact Study,
10 I have concerns of undercounting in the
11 restaurant and hotel , which I ' ve just
12 gone through . I have concerns about
13 what they call the distribution of
14 traffic . The Traffic Impact Study
15 depends sensitively on the split of
16 traffic arriving at and departing from
17 east and west . The Traffic Impact Study
18 makes an assumption without data or
19 analytical support, that the traffic
20 arriving at the hotel will be 60%
21 percent from the west and 40% from the
22 east . I assert that data on such
23 traffic splits could have been obtained.
24 The applicant could have surveyed local
25 B&B owners to understand their split of
April 11, 2022 39
1 arrivals and departures from east and
2 west . The applicant could have
3 consulted hotels owners in Greenport and
4 in Riverhead to place a likely bracket
5 around the departures and arrivals east
6 and west traffic -- the -- Southhold
7 being between those two locations . They
8 could have consulted hotels on the North
9 Road in the Southhold. None of this was
10 done . They pulled two numbers out of
11 the air . Those numbers very sensitively
12 affect the outcome of the traffic study.
13 If you simply assume an 80/20 split ,
14 which is equally plausible to 60 /40 , the
15 numbers change . I have a fourth concern
16 about the Traffic Impact Study. I
17 mentioned the handbook established by
18 the Institute of Transportation
19 Engineers . It outlines a methodology
20 for predicting traffic trips based on
21 land use . And it provides guidance on
22 how to apply that methodology . One of
23 the pieces of guidance in methodology is
24 that the analyst should not use traffic
25 generation rates that exceed the
April 11, 2022 40
1 boundaries of the data provided . In
2 other words , the analyst should not
3 extrapolate beyond the bounds of the
4 data . It appears to me that the Traffic
5 Impact Study of 2019 exceeded the bounds
6 of the data for trip generation rates ,
7 both for the hotel and the restaurant .
8 This is not consistent with the
9 Institute for Transportation Engineers
10 handbook. I have an observation about
11 the Traffic Impact Study. In many
12 places , the Traffic Impact Study makes
13 statements such as , the traffic increase
14 will be insignificant . The number of
15 the amount of heavy truck traffic will
16 be unnoticeable . The number of traffic
17 accidents increase will be not undue .
18 In all those cases , the traffic impact
19 study fails to indicate what threshold
20 would be significant , noticeable , or
21 undue . Personally, and this is my
22 opinion, this is not a fact . I think
23 they do not set a threshold because they
24 don ' t know what it is . My estimates of
25 traffic generation rates and the
April 11, 2022 41
1 associated growth in traffic on the Main
2 Road suggest that the traffic might grow
3 by as much as 5 to 7 . 40 . The Traffic
4 Impact Study, I don ' t think it
5 calculates that number, but the
6 applicant in the Final Environmental
7 Impact Statement says that traffic
8 increase will be less than 40 . I think
9 the applicant might argue that 5 to 7 . 4%
10 increase is still insignificant . I
11 don ' t know what they will say, but I
12 know, to me, a 6 or 7% change in some
13 variables is quite significant . I ' m
14 5 ' 8 . If I grow 6% , I ' ll be 6 feet and
15 that ' s noticeable . If I put on 6% body
16 weight, my clothes won ' t fit and that ' s
17 noticeable . So I assert that a five to
18 7 . 4% increase in traffic flow is
19 significant . Further, that it would
20 roll through the intersection capacity
21 analysis that ' s performed in the study,
22 which I didn ' t have a chance to go into
23 detail on . And might alter the
24 conclusions of that intersection
25 capacity study . My recommendation is
April 11, 2022 42
1 that the Planning Board require a fresh
2 traffic study that addresses the flaws
3 in the 2019 study . That includes --
4 includes rolling through any increase in
5 traffic trips through the intersection
6 capacity analysis . And that upon
7 completion of that study, the Board make
8 an assessment of whether the increase in
9 traffic requires further mitigation in
10 accordance with the SEQRA review
11 process . Thank you .
12 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
13 you . All of your comments , obviously,
14 like everyone else are being recorded .
15 And we see the tone . We ' ve heard it .
16 We ' ve got a few e-mails and obviously,
17 through us being all local residents ,
18 traffic is a concern for everyone with
19 the, you know, between the vineyards and
20 the farms and what ' s going on out here .
21 Things have changed . So the ZBA and the
22 DOT look at the traffic . We are going
23 to take another look at it . I ' m not
24 promising that we ' re going to , you know,
25 we ' re going to change anything . But I ' m
April 11, 2022 43
1 just saying that we ' ll take another look
2 at it . And the -- all your questions
3 and your references to the -- to the
4 Traffic Safety Board, will look into all
5 those -- all those numbers that you ' ve
6 talked about . So it will be addressed .
7 MARGARET STEINBUGLER : I appreciate
8 that . And to make that easier for you,
9 I ' ve prepared copies of my study for
10 each of the Planning Board members . And
11 I have a copy that I ' ve provided to the
12 applicant as well .
13 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Great .
14 Thank you very much . Would anybody else
15 like to address the Board?
16 ANNE MURRAY : Hi . My name is Anne
17 Murray and I live at 307 Southern
18 Boulevard in East Marion, New York . I
19 have been looking at this project since
20 they first came to the Planning Board, I
21 guess three and a half years ago . And I
22 was surprised that the ZBA actually
23 approved it because I felt that the
24 traffic study was flawed as well .
25 However, I ' m not an engineer like
April 11, 2022 44
1 Margaret . So I didn ' t do my own
2 calculations, but I ' m just knowing that
3 the traffic study was done in 2019 ,
4 Pre-pandemic, pre-everyone getting home
5 delivery of Amazon trucks and UPS
6 trucks . All over the place . And my
7 God, the traffic increase has been
8 incredible for the past couple of years .
9 It wasn ' t in the traffic study. I would
10 hope that the Planning Board would
11 consider doing its own traffic study.
12 The truck traffic alone is huge . Not to
13 mention the tourism. Let ' s not even go
14 there . Because this hotel will bring
15 even more tourism. And I also question
16 this new event space . Where did it come
17 from? I think the Planning Board really
18 needs to look at that as well . And I ' d
19 also like to say that I appreciate
20 everything that Marina DeLuca said and I
21 agree with it all . Thank you .
22 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
23 you very much . We have someone on Zoom.
24 Bring them in .
25 JESSICA MICHAELIS : Sally Khan .
April 11, 2022 45
1 Just state your name and address the
2 Board . Thank you .
3 SALLY KHAN : Sally Khan, and I live
4 in Southold . I think we ' re all a little
5 weary. It ' s been a long haul . And I
6 really appreciate it -- I think we all
7 have to appreciate the work that has
8 been done and the attention that all of
9 our Board members have done, and the
10 Planning Board and the ZBA, etcetera .
11 Tried to will away at this huge project .
12 I ' d like to applaud the next to last
13 speaker, Margaret . I mean, Margaret
14 said so many things that all of us
15 thought about when we read the report .
16 This is not possible . Traffic is not
17 just going to be insignificant . I ' d
18 like to raise a larger question and
19 maybe a theoretical question at this
20 point . You ' ve been reading in Riverhead
21 over the past two weeks , in the
22 newspapers . What are they doing in
23 Riverhead? They ' re setting up
24 commissions to try and study traffic .
25 What is happening? You can ' t get onto
April 11, 2022 46
1 the North Fork . You just travel along,
2 like the turtle -- little turtle, the
3 hare rabbit and the turtle there . We ' re
4 going along and we cannot get anywhere .
5 Last week, the residents of the Peconic
6 Bay Boulevard were before the Town
7 Board . A large contingent complaining
8 about the traffic on the Peconic Bay
9 Boulevard . My question to you, and my
10 question to the community, is who is
11 looking at the cumulative effects of the
12 projects that aren ' t planned? We cannot
13 possibly have a hotel and another hotel
14 and another hotel , and just sit here and
15 say, we ' ll look at each project
16 individually. Well, we will tinker with
17 it . We ' ll put in the different
18 driveways . Whatever . We ' ll put you in
19 a different spot . I really think we ' re
20 on the verge of getting out of control .
21 And we have to sit and look at the whole
22 picture and really sit down and put some
23 really boundaries in place . I also
24 think we have to think about talking to
25 our neighbors . What do you think
April 11, 2022 47
1 Riverhead would think of all these
2 hotels out here? We are just going to
3 swamp the whole area with the traffic,
4 the new people coming out to visit the
5 hotels . Who is responsible for the
6 cumulative effects and who is looking at
7 it? That has to be something that we
8 think of . Even though it is an
9 individual project . Thank you .
10 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
11 you very much . Once again, a traffic
12 concern, and again, through our site
13 plan process, we ' ll take a look at that .
14 Yes , can you state your name and write
15 your name for the record, please?
16 MARY JANE BRENNAN : Yes . Mary Jane
17 Brennan . And I live in Southold . Very
18 close to the project . Also on the
19 traffic impact -- traffic study
20 question . On the traffic question, this
21 is a question which you might not be
22 able to answer . Does the traffic impact
23 study include shuttle buses to vineyards
24 or to the beach? Because the idea that
25 there would be a shuttle bus going out
April 11, 2022 48
1 Founders Landing Park has been floated
2 and I think that ' s potential
3 possibility . So is that part of the
4 traffic study? And if groups of 100 ,
5 that ' s a kind of a tiny wedding . Would
6 there be sort of trips to vineyards and,
7 You know, that ' s traffic? And those
8 shuttle buses was that part of the
9 traffic impact study?
10 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : I ' ll
11 let the applicant answer that at the
12 end . I ' ve got a list of questions . I ' m
13 sure he ' s writing them down now . Okay .
14 Thank you . Anybody else like to address
15 the Board? Yes , sir .
16 DAN KAPLAN : Hi . My name is Dan
17 Kaplan . I ' m at 725 Hobart Road . I ' m
18 also concerned about traffic . I ' m also
19 -- I also have a question about the
20 restaurant , because I heard -- I heard
21 the Chairman say that the restaurant was
22 not going to be open to the public . But
23 yet I heard the applicants say that it
24 was . So that ' s a bit confusing to me --
25 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Well ,
April 11, 2022 49
1 I ' m sorry, I misspoke . The hotel -- I 'm
2 sorry if I did say the restaurant is not
3 open to the public . The restaurant is
4 open to the public . I ' m sorry if I
5 misspoke .
6 DAN KAPLAN : So just so I
7 understand the inhabitants of the hotel,
8 the 160 parking spaces that will be
9 there will be the people that are
10 staying at the hotel, but anybody else
11 who has a reservation to the restaurant,
12 that ' s the way I understand it . So
13 there ' ll be a lot of additional people
14 coming in, as well as, the potentially
15 an event with another 100 people . So it
16 just seems like there ' s gonna be a lot
17 of usage here . And I ' m really concerned
18 about access in and out of the property .
19 And will people be able or allowed to
20 make a left turn to go to Greenport out
21 of the property? Or are they gonna have
22 to make a right turn and then somehow
23 get around? And I ' m just wondering how
24 that ' s gonna be handled because right
25 now, we live on the corner of Hobart and
April 11, 2022 50
1 Corvin and it ' s really, really
2 troublesome because that little corner
3 is now the circle to get around it for
4 trucks that are servicing the businesses
5 on Route 25 . It ' s the way that they
6 turn around and go back to Riverhead .
7 And it ' s really, really troublesome and
8 problematic . So I hope that you do a
9 new traffic study . And I hope that it
10 takes that into account because I
11 suspect a lot of people , if they ' re
12 coming right out of this property, are
13 gonna have to somehow make a left to go
14 to Greenport . And how are they gonna do
15 that? At a previous meeting, someone
16 suggested that there might be a creative
17 alternative by gaining some access or a
18 variance or something from the Railroad.
19 So that there could be some kind of
20 access to this property from the rear,
21 which would take that pressure off of
22 the Main Road . And I just hope someone
23 would look at that , and see if that
24 might be possible . Thank you .
25 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
April 11, 2022 51
- 1 you for your comments . Again, I just
2 want to just talk about traffic has
3 always been an issue . I know the ZBA
4 and the applicant did a traffic study,
5 and the DOT has looked at it . But we
6 will just take a look at everything
7 again .
8 Anybody else would like to address
9 the Board? Please state your name .
10 Write your name for the record .
11 BENEDETTO D ' ROSSI : My name is
12 Benedetto D ' Rossi . My family owns the
13 house of a couple doors down from the
14 hotel project . My main concern is
15 Private Road B being used as a
16 construction entrance or maybe another
17 entrance to the hotel . I see there ' s a
18 lot of trucks coming in and out of
19 there . So I just want to make sure that
20 it ' s not correlated with each other .
21 It ' s going to remain private to those
22 residents as well .
23 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Okay .
24 We ' ll get that information . If they
25 don ' t give that information tonight,
April 11, 2022 52
1 we ' ll definitely get that information
2 revealed to the public .
3 BENEDETTO D ' ROSSI : All right,
4 thank you .
5 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Yes ,
6 ma ' am.
7 MAGGIE MERRILL : Hi . I ' m Maggie
8 Merrill . I live in Southold. I 'm one
9 of several people that is starting to
10 form the Southhold Peconic Civic
11 Association, but I am not here
12 representing that tonight, because we ' re
13 brand new and we haven ' t had a chance to
14 go through our process as an
15 association, which is to educate and
16 inform the public on how this whole
17 thing works , which a lot of us don ' t
18 know . It ' s one of the reasons why we
19 formed the organization . But we ' re just
20 getting started. So we haven ' t been
21 able to vote on this issue and make a
22 public stand . So I ' m speaking today as
23 just a citizen of Southold who has lived
24 here a really long time . But what I can
25 tell you is that our membership is
April 11, 2022 53
1 really good . And this proposal is one
2 of the reasons why I think it motivated
3 a lot of people to join our
4 organization . I recognize that this
5 Planning Board has a really large task
6 in front of them. And you need to find
7 a balance between developers rights ,
8 what ' s best for Southold and also what ' s
9 best for its citizens . This -- but this
10 very issue is why the Town spent over a
11 decade creating a Comprehensive Plan .
12 And the plan was adopted, but it has not
13 been implemented . Developers will quote
14 parts of the plan . Saying that , you
15 know, it calls for more places to stay,
16 but it also -- they don ' t quote the part
17 that says that talks about quaint inn ' s
18 and Beds & Breakfasts , in keeping with
19 community character . Community
20 character was one of the two main goals
21 of the plan . And I ask that you
22 consider the rights of the develop -- as
23 you consider their rights as developers ,
24 you also consider the rights of the
25 citizens . And you think about your
April 11, 2022 54
1 responsibility to the Comprehensive
2 Plan . The parts of the plan are not
3 quoted by the developer, but they were
4 created by the stakeholders and by the
5 residents themselves , as being of the
6 utmost importance . The two major goals
7 of the Comprehensive Plan, I read it .
8 It ' s in there, are community character
9 and preservation of protection of our
10 natural resources . And as I ' m going to
11 talk about traffic . Sorry . But as you
12 consider the traffic issue, are you
13 taking a comprehensive view of it as we
14 have Affordable Housing possibly going
15 in over here? And new construction
16 going on over there? All within the
17 little hamlet of Southold . I know a lot
18 of people feel helpless . They don ' t
19 know how this process works, and we ' re
20 trying to rectify that . We haven ' t
21 gotten there yet , but we will . And my
22 hope is that you will keep the public
23 hearing open long enough to hear from
24 those people after the civic association
25 has some time to get through the process
April 11, 2022 55
1 and educate the public . So we only get
2 to do this once . Once it ' s done, it ' s
3 done . Thank you .
4 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
5 you . Anybody else like to address the
6 Board? Anyone else? We have anybody on
7 Zoom?
8 JESSICA MICHAELIS : Lucille Jones .
9 Please state your name and address the
10 Board . Thank you . To un-mute * 6 or the
11 toggle at the bottom. Can you state
12 your name please?
13 LUCILLE JONES : Yes . Lucille
14 Jones . I live at 925 Town Harbor Lane
15 in Southold, which is directly across
16 where you ' re putting the Enclave . I
17 think that you have to take into
18 consideration the fact that slipping in
19 this new event space in addition to the
20 restaurant patrons that are not
21 considered part of the hundred patron
22 limit , plus the staffing, which I ' m
23 thinking because I have some restaurant
24 experience, that you ' re probably looking
25 at least 30 to possibly 40 people . When
April 11, 2022 56
1 you have all of this happening at once .
2 That you ' re verging on close to 200
3 people . I ' m very concerned about this
4 self-monitoring that you are describing
5 for the limitations in regard to the
6 amount of people who are allowed to
7 come . And I think that we already have
8 a huge issue . The people who live in
9 this founder ' s area here, trying to
10 actually get out of our streets during
11 the summer months . You take your life
12 into your hands . I hold my breath when
13 my daughter tries to leave and make a
14 left . People zoom once they get past
15 7 /11 . It ' s kind of a free for all . The
16 visibility is very difficult b.ecause of
17 the trucks on either side of the street
18 making deliveries to 7/11 . We have
19 people going the wrong way all the time .
20 I ' m not exaggerating in that one way
21 street by the deli . And I ' ve never seen
22 anyone ever being stopped for that
23 issue . And the only other way you can
24 get out would be either Town Harbor,
25 which is my road, or the Mullen Motors
April 11, 2022 57
1 Road, which a lot of times is not
2 accessible due to large trucks and
3 deliveries also . So I think the traffic
4 study, I ' m not sure if they took any of
5 this into consideration and at what time
6 they were sitting there with their
7 clickers , because I -- I hate to be
8 facetious , but I really think it ' s a
9 joke this track traffic study to say
10 that there will be no -- no impact . As
11 it is there are many, many times during
12 the summer months where I will literally
13 drive east turnaround on Laurel and then
14 be able to come back to drive west . So
15 I implore you to redo this study and
16 somehow take into consideration what
17 happens because the change is so huge
18 once the summer people come out and
19 during the summer months . And take that
20 into consideration because once this --
21 you allow this to happen, there ' s no
22 going back. There really isn ' t . And I
23 and I also just -- I understand what
24 happens with the monitoring that it
25 really you know, it ' s just going to be
April 11, 2022 58
1 self monitoring . And I hate to sound
2 cynical , but I do not believe that this
3 is going to be less than 200 people on
4 these very busy event nights . Thank you
5 very much for your consideration .
6 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
7 you . Anybody else would like to address
8 the Board . Mr . Mark Terry, Assistant
9 Town Planner .
10 MARK TERRY : Yes . Mr . Chairman,
11 I ' d like to put some staff comments on
12 the record for tonight . I am very
13 familiar with the Comprehensive Plan .
14 Have written it together with you, and
15 Planning Director Lanza . And there are
16 some attributes of this proposal that
17 have met some goals of the Comprehensive
18 Plan . And one key note is the dwelling
19 in front is going to be retained in its
20 historic character quite stringently .
21 And that is a plus for the street-scape .
22 But having said that , there are other
23 elements , such as the reduction in
24 Nitrogen loads to the groundwater is a
25 plus . The metal landscaping is a plus ;
April 11, 2022 59
1 however, there are some concerns with
2 that I have . But to continue on, there
3 is a question about the irrigation rate
4 that is proposed in this project , and
5 it ' s quite high . And I think that at
6 some point , the applicants will have to
7 calibrate that . The other question I
8 have is workforce housing . There ' s a
9 very large need in the Town for
10 workforce housing . Has the applicant
11 considered or integrated workforce
12 housing within this project, as far as ,
13 having a manager on site? The red maple
14 in their landscape plan is not drought
15 tolerant . And if you go back to the
16 Comprehensive Plan, water conservation
17 managers are one of the goals within it .
18 They do have rain sensors , but you don ' t
19 wanna water more when we ' re in drought .
20 You want to conserve water . So you want
21 the species that are planted -- good
22 point about deer resistance, as well as ,
23 be drought tolerant . And that ' s really
24 key . I know the farmers on the Board
25 will tell you that we experienced
April 11, 2022 60
1 droughts more and more frequently . The
2 gap analysis . I would like to know what
3 it ' s attributed to, as far as , the
4 traffic . Traffic stream comes . There ' s
5 a gap in it , and then they say you can
6 make a left hand turn . Is it the light,
7 the traffic signal that attributes to
8 the gap? What attributes to the gap and
9 how does that study? I think that was a
10 very valid point on the traffic . And
11 then security on site . Is there a 24
12 hour security on site? Is there on site
13 security officer living there? I mean,
14 how -- how is that integrated into this
15 plan? Other than that, that ' s about it .
16 I am the other coordinator . And I ' m
17 sure I ' ll be issuing many more comments
18 when I review it in more detail .
19 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
20 you, Mark. Would anybody else like to
21 address the Board? And Mr . Giambertone,
22 I ' ll give you the chance at the end to
23 answer some of the questions if you
24 would like .
25 LYNN SUMMERS : Lynn Summers, 1290
April 11, 2022 61
1 Oriole Drive, Southold . My concern is
2 for our First Responders , our
3 volunteered police . I come from a big
4 firematic and police background . I grew
5 up in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania . And I
6 moved out here in 1970 . I remember
7 talking to friends and neighbors who did
8 volunteer . And my only concern is that
9 on this site, in both cases , are there
10 different defibrillators , and will there
11 be somebody, security wise , on a
12 property like this? This is important
13 for everyone . I would not -- and I owe
14 -- every night when the whistle is going
15 off, I think of this . We deserve and
16 everyone who goes to this place deserves
17 the best quality of life in a time of
18 trouble . The other question I have is
19 that property is so close to those
20 cabinets or whatever are going to be
21 there , where the Railroad is . Now if
22 you lived out here, I lived many roads
23 to the north of there, and when that
24 goes through there, you ' re shaking out
25 of bed sometimes . How are they going to
April 11, 2022 62
1 cut down the noise of something like
2 that? And then to the case of using
3 some kind of road, that would be helpful
4 to get things in there , but I don ' t
5 know, they ' d have to buy the
6 right-of-way, and I don ' t even know
7 whether that ' s possible . The other
8 thing is that I know as I speak here was
9 ( inaudible) Avenue, where I go in and
10 out of from the north to the south, will
11 be definitely impact . And there will be
12 people trying to make left hand turns to
13 go to the east . I haven ' t made a left
14 hand turn except the traffic light for
15 the last 15 years . And you who sit
16 there, who have lived here, know that .
17 And that is something that when somebody
18 comes to this community, no matter how
19 big and grandiose, and how many lawyers
20 and how many architects they have,
21 that ' s a reality for them, and for us .
22 And I don ' t know why people haven ' t
23 figured that out yet, but that ' s all I
24 want to say tonight .
25 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Okay .
April 11, 2022 63
1 Thank you . Part of our job is for the
2 health, safety, welfare of the
3 community . And that will be addressed
4 through the site plan . Anyone else
5 would like to address the board? Yes .
6 No . Anybody else? We have anybody
7 on --
8 JESSICA MICHAELIS : No, we don ' t .
9 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Anybody
10 else? I 'm going to ask Mr . Giambertone
11 to come answer some of the questions, if
12 no one else wants to speak . I really
13 don ' t want to go back and forth . So if
14 you want to speak, please step to the
15 podium now, if we could -- just to keep
16 this moving on in an orderly way . Okay.
17 Thank you .
18 ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : Good evening,
19 again, Mr . Chairman . Andrew Giambertone
20 for the applicant . I think it ' s
21 important for the public to understand
22 the scrutiny under which this project
23 went . When we first made applications
24 to the Board of Zoning Appeals -- the
25 Zoning Board of Appeals , for the Special
April 11, 2022 64
1 Exception Permit, they retained their
2 own consultant . They did not take our
3 word for it . We did not get the
4 opportunity to present data without it
5 being scrutinized by a consultant ,
6 Nelson & Pope , retained by the Town, to
7 do a thorough analysis of all the
8 documentation and data that we would
9 present . So every step along the way,
10 they were part of that process from the
11 beginning . When the Zoning Board did an
12 analysis on the scope of the
13 environmental impact statement required,
14 gave us the laundry list of all the
15 items we would have to address to
16 establishing the criteria under which
17 that analysis would be analyzed . So it
18 wasn ' t as though we took numbers from
19 the air or we used numbers that were
20 convenient for our use . These were
21 numbers that were presented to us by the
22 Town ' s own consultant based on their
23 experience , and the data that they use
24 for their own traffic analysis . Subject
25 to that , we had to adhere to that
April 11, 2022 65
1 criteria and develop our own studies .
2 At one point, we were ready to submit
3 early in May to the Zoning Board for an
4 adjustment to our application . And we
5 had to wait until we could do a traffic
6 study at the peak time in July or
7 August , to verify that our traffic
8 study, in fact , did reflect peak use
9 during the weekends and the summer . So
10 the process has not been one of
11 arbitrary data . It ' s been scrutinized
12 thoroughly by the Town ' s own
13 consultants . I ' ll go in order of the
14 comments addressed?
15 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Sure .
16 ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : Ms . Daly, we
17 use -- We actually use data from --
18 JESSICA MICHAELIS : I ' m sorry .
19 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : You
20 have to address the Board .
21 ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : Relative to
22 Ms . Daly ' s question, we use data from
23 actually a friend of ours who owns the
24 Preston Hotel in Riverhead, as well as ,
25 the Hyatt . Based on his room rates in
April 11, 2022 66
1 the winter time , they ' re averaging on
2 average $135 to $275 per night .
3 Depending on whether it ' s a weekday or a
4 weekend . And in the summertime, they
5 can get as high as $400 or more per
6 night . We use that data as the basis
7 for our financial analysis for the
8 project . And it ' ll be a function of
9 market demand at that point in time .
10 But that ' s the range of which we use to
11 establish the financial liability of the
12 project . And that was based on proven
13 data through historic use of both the
14 Preston Hotel , as well as , the Hyatt .
15 Ms . DeLuca, regarding the special event
16 space . That was not stuck into the
17 project . During the environmental
18 impact study from the Zoning Board, they
19 made the determination, originally, that
20 lawn that we wanted to put tents on was
21 going to be used for special events .
22 When they determined that having a tent
23 would not mitigate sound sufficiently to
24 address the concerns of the neighbor,
25 they required us to put any special
April 11, 2022 67
1 events within a building . And that ' s
2 where that building came from. That
3 building is in size to accommodate a
4 guest of 100 people . It ' s located on
5 that lawn . It ' s a separate building
6 from the hotel . So it doesn ' t interfere
7 with the ongoing ' s of what ' s going on in
8 the hotel . The purpose of this boutique
9 hotel is to offer the people that will
10 come here, rest and enjoy the beauty of
11 what is so special about Southold. It ' s
12 not to create a chaotic scene . The
13 purpose of the special events is to
14 primarily offset the downturn in
15 occupancy during the off season . We
16 don ' t expect that many events at all
17 during the high season, because that ' s
18 our primary time when we ' ll be getting
19 the best room rates . Relative to our
20 density on a 6 . 75 acre site, we ' re only
21 developing 18 . 60 of the site . I don ' t
22 know how much less we can develop and
23 still make it financially viable . But I
24 think relative to the amount of
25 landscaping, we ' re providing which is
April '11, 2022 68
1 560 of the site, as well as, the amount
2 of density that we ' re actually using . I
3 think our development is actually quite
4 modest and alternate uses would create a
5 far greater density of development on
6 the site . This Ms . Butkus , same thing .
7 Relative to the event space . That ' s how
8 the event space came to be . The
9 Planning Board has asked us to
10 illustrate not just the dotted line on
11 the site plan, but a physical building
12 on the site which we have . Those
13 elevations of that building are included
14 in the latest rounds of presentations to
15 the Planning Board, and we expect to
16 address any questions the Planning Board
17 has on that event space as part of this
18 process . As far as controlling size,
19 what I can tell you is , we ' ve been going
20 through this process on and off since
21 2015 . Every time the Town has come to
22 us with a concern, we have tried to
23 mitigate that concern through various
24 measures and have conceded in fact from
25 where our original business plan was, to
April 11, 2022 69
1 where it is today . Running many hotels
2 run with the benefit of special events
3 to try and offset the occupancy in the
4 off season . We had originally
5 anticipated events up to 250 people .
6 That ' s been -- we ' ve had our hands tied
7 to limiting that to 100 people . So
8 every time we ' ve been asked to do
9 something, we ' ve done so . Imagine going
10. to a hotel and you can ' t listen to music
11 outside? We ' re limited to that .
12 Imagine going to a hotel, you can ' t have
13 special events outside? We ' re limited
14 to that . So everything that we ' ve been
15 asked to do, we ' ve done to accommodate
16 the concerns of the neighbors . Down to
17 Founders Landing . We ' ve agreed that we
18 will not use Founders Landing Beach by
19 the occupants of the hotel unless we ' re
20 invited, which I don ' t see coming
21 anytime soon . Regarding the community
22 character and the aesthetics . As I
23 said, subsequent to our meeting with the
24 Architecture Review Committee , we did go
25 back and we addressed the concerns the
April 11, 2022 70
1 Architecture Review Committee raised .
2 I ' ve demonstrated physical proof of that
3 here . And that will be ongoing
4 development as we go through the
5 planning process with the Board . Joel
6 Ryman, the size of the property and the
7 traffic . Again, relative to the overall
8 size of the project , I think our
9 development is actually quite modest .
10 When we speak to traffic in a moment,
11 because it seems to be a lot of
12 concerns . Relative to the planting,
13 when it came to the planting, we were
14 limited to a DEC, Department of
15 Environmental Conservation list of
16 non-invasive species , which we have been
17 adhered to . Within the confines of that
18 list, we ' ll try and find more variation .
19 Additionally, the last thing we want to
20 do is plant salad for the deer . The
21 species that we will plant will , in
22 fact , be proven to be deer resistant .
23 The Steinbugler ' s -- I appreciate the
24 extensive lengths you went to in the
25 traffic study. But once again, I
April 11, 2022 71
1 reiterate, we did not create the
2 criteria . The criteria was handed to
3 us , dictated to us , by the Town ' s own
4 consultants . Using the data that they
5 have used throughout their numerous
6 years in business . Nelson, Pope &
7 Voorhis has been in business for many,
8 many years . They ' ve done many traffic
9 studies . And their findings have been
10 respected by every municipality on Long
11 Island. I recognize that the concern is
12 that traffic will be detrimental to the
13 general public . The reality is ,
14 although it ' s hard to believe, when you
15 look at the data, the data supports what
16 has been stated in the finding statement
17 prepared by the Zoning Board . Not just
18 our assertions , but determination by the
19 Zoning Board in their own finding
20 statement . Relative to the Riverhead
21 Hotel, I wish I could grow 60 . The
22 changed the traffic from 4 to 60 . I
23 feel confident that , again, once it ' s
24 scrutinized by the Town ' s own
25 consultant , that the percentages of
April 11, 2022 72
1 traffic generation are in fact accurate .
2 I would stand behind our traffic study,
3 and obviously we welcome that scrutiny,
4 as has been scrutinized by the Town
5 already . The Founder ' s Landing, again,
6 we have agreed not to use the Founder ' s
7 Landing Beach . As far as the restaurant
8 goes , the restaurant in the front will
9 be open to the public . The restaurant
10 design was submitted to the State Office
11 of Historic Preservation in Albany .
12 They reviewed it extensively . Not just
13 on the exterior, but on the interior .
14 We were required to modify the design of
15 the hotel to meet that criteria, which
16 we have . And part of the reason we ' re
17 trying to conceal the building from Main
18 Street is to maintain the autonomy and
19 integrity of that historic structure
20 along the main corridor . Mr . D ' Hossi , I
21 can confirm for you that the private
22 road will have no way be used for either
23 traffic or ingress in and out of the
24 hotel , nor during construction . As part
25 of our final approval with the Planning
April 11, 2022 73
1 Board, I ' m sure we can be asked to
2 submit a construction plan, which will
3 dictate that by ingress and egress to
4 this site during construction, hours of
5 operation, etcetera . Regarding
6 Ms . Merrill ' s comments about the Civic
7 Association, again, we ' ve been through
8 this gauntlet through many, many years .
9 And many of these Civic Associations in
10 the area have come through . We ' ve
11 addressed the concerns we feel
12 substantially and the Zoning Board has
13 agreed with us in their finding
14 statement . After a meeting with the
15 Architecture Review Committee, once
16 again, we ' ve modified the design to
17 address some of their concerns .
18 Mr . Jones spoke about the event space ,
19 which I ' ve already spoken about . In
20 terms of First Responders , I can confirm
21 that both in the restaurant, as well as ,
22 in the hotel, in the spa area, in the
23 event space and in the outdoor space,
24 there will be defibrillators that will
25 be utilized by trained professionals on
April 11, 2022 74
1 the site . This is a hotel that ' s open
2 24-hours as such . It is inherently
3 going to be security as part of that .
4 Going to Mr . Terry ' s concerns regarding
5 the cottages . There are several glass
6 manufacturers that manufacture triple
7 pane glass as very effective, sound
8 attenuation . And those are the windows
9 that are in fact used for developments
10 adjacent to railroads, as well as , the
11 wall construction which will mitigate
12 the transfer of sound through the
13 building . Mr . Terry mentioned the
14 historic character, which we ' re
15 maintaining with the restaurant . The
16 sewage treatment plant where we ' re
17 greatly reducing the Nitrogen input into
18 the ground. The irrigation rate, we ' re
19 happy to address with you and your
20 concerns . And we ' ll consider the use of
21 more drought tolerant plants that don ' t
22 require as much irrigation . And I ' m
23 sure through the planning process that
24 will be addressed . Workforce Housing,
25 we have since -- we started the project .
April 11, 2022 75
1 We ' ve actually purchased the home at the
2 far north end of adjacent site, which is
3 formerly owned by Anthony Forgione . We
4 bought that purposely to use for staff
5 housing . The red maple, we talked
6 about, we ' ll address that . The gap
7 analysis , Bryan, do you want to speak to
8 the gap analysis , and the security
9 outside address .
10 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Okay .
11 Thank you, Mr . Giambertone . So we have
12 one -- what we ' ll do is , we ' ll -- you
13 can explain the gap analysis for the
14 traffic . And then we ' ll see if the any
15 Board members have any questions for you
16 guys .
17 BRYAN GROGAN : Bryan Grogan with PW
18 Grosser Consulting . The gap analysis
19 came out of during the environmental
20 impact statement portion, but we were
21 originally not requested to do that as
22 part of the scope of the DEIS . That
23 came out of the Nelson & Pope review of
24 our document . They felt the need for a
25 gap study . We conduct a gap study in, I
April 11, 2022 76
1 believe, late October on extremely short
2 notice in order to capture the Fall
3 season . That gap study, again, took
4 video monitors for a couple of days and
5 showed the actual gaps in traffic . And
6 that the results of that were summarized
7 in that there were sufficient gaps to
8 provide for left and right hand turns
9 coming out of the property with adequate
10 timing to make those turns . So, you
11 know, the gaps is more than seven
12 seconds or more . Exactly how the gap
13 was created, I can ' t attest to . If
14 that ' s the one traffic light further on
15 down the road, or just natural gaps in
16 traffic . There were no observed points
17 during that gap study of stopped
18 traffic . There had been -- I think, a
19 couple of comments that we had received,
20 the traffic just kinds of grinds to a
21 halt . There was nothing observed during
22 that time when we did that gap study.
23 But as Mr . Giambertone indicated, all of
24 our traffic data, including our studies
25 prepared by our consultant , Mr . Ron
April 11, 2022 77
1 Hill , were given to Nelson & Pope .
2 Nelson & Pope had an ordered amount of
3 time to go through it . They went
4 through it with excessive scrutiny .
5 Multiple revisions back and forth .
6 Ultimately, Nelson & Pope drafted the
7 final impacts they had with themselves
8 and kind of revised and edited
9 accordingly . So again, this wasn ' t a
10 ( inaudible ) prepared in a vacuum by the
11 applicant .
12 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Thank
13 you . Any Board members have any
14 questions for the team? Mary? Pierce,
15 do you have anything?
16 MEMBER PIERCE RAFFERTY : No . Not
17 now .
18 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Larry?
19 (No verbal response . )
20 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Ladies
21 and Gentlemen, we ' ve taken all of your
22 information . Obviously it ' s being
23 recorded. We hear you on the traffic
24 and obviously the applicant is just
25 giving us a little bit of information,
April 11, 2022 78
1 but we will go through everything again .
2 Obviously, that ' s part of our job . And
3 at this point , what I ' d like to do is
4 get a motion to close the hearing and
5 leave it open for two weeks for written
6 comments , as Ms . DeLuca had requested, I
7 think that one of the Civic groups had
8 asked for a little more time . So if I
9 could get a motion to close the hearing
10 and leave it open for two weeks for
11 written comments ?
12 MEMBER MARTIN SIDOR: So moved .
13 MEMBER JAMES H . RICH III : Second.
14 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Motion
15 made by Martin . Seconded by Jim.
16 Any discussion?
17 (No Response) .
18 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : All in
19 favor?
20 MEMBER MIA JEALOUS-DANK: Aye .
21 MEMBER PIERCE RAFFERTY : Aye .
22 MEMBER JAMES H . RICH III : Aye .
23 MEMBER MARTIN SIDOR : Aye .
24 BRYAN GROGAN : Aye .
25 Opposed?
April 11, 2022 79
1 (No Response) .
2 CHAIRMAN DONALD WILCENSKI : Motion
3 carries . Thank you all . for coming this
4 evening .
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6 (Whereupon, the Public Hearing
7 Concluded . )
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April 11, 2022 80
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2 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
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4 I , Jessica DiLallo, a Notary Public
5 for and within the State of New York, do
6 hereby certify :
7 THAT, the within transcript is a
8 true record of said Board Meeting .
9 I further certify that I am not
10 related either by blood or marriage to
11 any of the parties to this action; and
12 that I am in no way interested in the
13 outcome of this matter .
14 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto
15 set my hand this day, October 10 , 2023 .
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