HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-09/26/2023 PH 1
1 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW YORK
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TOWN BOARD
4 REGULAR BOARD MEETING
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Southold, New York
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September 26 , 2023
9 4 : 30 P .M .
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15 B E F 0 R E :
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17 SCOTT A . RUSSELL, SUPERVISOR
18 LOUISA P . EVANS , JUSTICE
19 JILL DOHERTY, COUNCILWOMAN
20 BRIAN 0 . MEALY, COUNCILMAN
21 GREG DOROSKI , COUNCILMAN
22 SARAH E . NAPPA, COUNCILWOMAN
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SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 2
1 PUBLIC HEARINGS
COMMUNITY HOUSING PLAN
2
(Whereupon, there was a presentation
3 by Mara Cerezo . )
4 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I ' m going
5 to ask anybody that would like to
6 comment on this particular public
7 hearing, to please feel free .
8 ANNE SMITH : Hi , everyone . I ' m
9 Anne Smith from Mattituck, and I am here
10 tonight representing the Housing
11 Advisory Commission of Southold Town .
12 So I ' m speaking tonight on behalf of the
13 commission and because our co-chairs ,
14 Pat Lupski and Eric Dantes , were unable
15 to be here for tonight ' s hearing . The
16 Housing Commission, we would like to
17 thank member Mark Levine who served as
18 our Community Housing Fund Advisory
19 Board representative, and worked with
20 the Committee to draft the plan . Our
21 comments today are specifically about
22 the housing -- community housing plan
23 dated September 12 , 2023 , as the only
24 topic for discussion during the public
25 hearing . I ' m starting with a quote from
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 3
1 the plan, as I think it sums up the
2 problem we are facing . It ' s certainly
3 not going to be as eloquent as Mara was .
4 Thank you for that . Really great
5 summary . You ' ve heard it many times at
6 all of the community hearings that
7 you ' ve held . But I thought this quote
8 did a nice job of really summing up kind
9 of what is at the heart of meeting this
10 plan . " The Town of Southold and the
11 Village of Greenport have historically
12 been communities where neighbors know
13 neighbors , and families occupy
14 generational homes . These generational
15 ties to the land and community are
16 strong . Yet because of changing
17 community dynamics , stable year-round
18 moderately priced housing is
19 increasingly challenging to find .
20 People struggling to find local housing
21 price within their means include a
22 wide-ranging array of community members .
23 The lack of availability of suitable
24 housing options will have short and
25 long-term impacts on the Town of
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 4
1 Southold forever shaping its future . "
2 The Southold Town Housing Plan is a
3 voter supported effort based on the
4 Peconic Bay Region Community Housing Act
5 and the subsequent establishment of the
6 Community Housing Fund . This plan will
7 be a guiding document to help solve the
8 housing crisis , including the impact of
9 the surge of short-term and seasonal
10 rentals on apartment availability . It
11 is not the only solution to a complex
12 issue, but will serve as a guide to a
13 multitiered effort for positive change
14 and to meet the goals of the Southold
15 Town Comprehensive Plan . The Housing
16 Advisory Commission supports the
17 adoption of the plan dated 9/ 12 /23 , and
18 looks forward to helping the Town Board
19 educate the community . I changed it
20 from the public to community after your
21 work session . And engage in a larger
22 issue of solving this problem. On
23 behalf of the Housing Advisory
24 Commission, we ' d like to thank the Town
25 Board for giving the voters the
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 5
1 opportunity to weigh in on the need for
2 the fund and for creating a diverse and
3 expert team on the Community Housing
4 Fund Advisory Board, who drafted the
5 plan with you . They were diligent ,
6 focused, and tireless in being prepared
7 for meetings , challenging each other for
8 clarity as they focused on the letter
9 and intent of the legislation . The
10 Housing Advisory Commission appreciates
11 the leadership of Southold Town
12 Councilwoman Jill Doherty, not only as a
13 liaison, but keeping the cats going . We
14 were -- they were -- that was a lot of
15 work to do . Thank you . Assistant
16 Planning Director Mark Terry and
17 Planner, Mara Cerezo . Mark and Mara are
18 and continue to be an important partner
19 to the Housing Advisory Commission . We
20 also want to thank you for the addition
21 of having Val help us with our
22 communications . The Housing Advisory
23 Commission will be here to partner with
24 Southold Town Board to help implement
25 the plan and other work related to the
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 6
1 housing issue . We acknowledge that the
2 plan may be reviewed and revised as it ' s
3 implemented and will help provide
4 feedback during that process .
5 Respectfully submitted on behalf of the
6 Southold Town Housing Advisory
7 Commission, Pat Lutzky, Mark Dantes , our
8 Co-Chairs , Mark Levine , Nancy Messer,
9 Cheryl Amara, Marilyn Sierra, and
10 myself, Anne Smith . Thank you .
11 DAVID LEVY : David Levy from
12 Laurel . I don ' t have comments . I do
13 have two questions , if I might, which I
14 will direct to the Board, if that ' s
15 appropriate and you may want to punt it
16 over to your Planning people . I think I
17 heard Ms . Lanza refer to an asset test,
18 which is involved in this whole process ,
19 which does not exist in the state law,
20 and I think the state law was lacking in
21 not having it . How does the asset test
22 that you folks have come up with work?
23 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Part of
24 our implementation would be to detail
25 those plans . And that ' s -- a lot of the
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 7
1 plan that we have now has to be
2 implemented, and there ' s further
3 decision and details that have to be
4 made by the Town Board and whoever we
5 hire to implement the plan .
6 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I think
7 typically an asset test, you talk about
8 all the assets of the applicant . If I ' m
9 not mistaken, not just the income . The
10 income itself could be a little bit
11 misleading, because if you ' re sitting on
12 $ 300 , 000 of other assets , then that
13 would be part of the equation . That ' s
14 what that means .
15 DAVID LEVY : That ' s why I think the
16 state law was lacking by not including
17 an asset test , but I congratulate
18 whoever put this together for coming up
19 with it in connection with the Town ' s
20 program . The other question that I had,
21 when I attended one of the community
22 meetings and the Planning Department did
23 a great job at those community meetings
24 on the subject, I asked the question as
25 to whether or not applicants to this
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 8
1 program have to qualify for the program
2 at the time of their application only,
3 or if they have to continuously qualify
4 in order to continue to get whatever
5 benefit they ' ve gotten from the program.
6 And I was told that they had to
7 continuously qualify and that there
8 would be an obligation of continuing
9 disclosure in which they would have to
10 provide documentation, probably tax
11 returns that would show that they still
12 were under the income limits and so
13 forth . The question that I wrestle with
14 and that they seem to be wrestling with
15 at the time I asked the question was ,
16 how do you implement that? If someone
17 is no longer qualified and they don ' t
18 want to move, what do you do? The
19 difficulty in answering that question is
20 why I ' ve worked personally with a number
21 of governments who have tried to put
22 together programs to do workforce
23 housing and the like . And they ' ve never
24 been successful where they have been
25 successful in putting together senior
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 9
1 citizen housing for this reason . In the
2 case of senior citizen housing, you
3 never just become unqualified once
4 you ' re qualified . You ' re always a
5 senior, and there ' s turnover in the
6 housing because people don ' t live
7 forever . But if you get a guy who or a
8 family that qualifies for housing and
9 they become part of this program, and
10 our hope for these people is that they
11 do explode out of the ranks of people
12 who are qualified and the family members
13 get jobs that bring their income over
14 the limit, but they like the place
15 they ' re in and the benefit they ' re
16 getting, what do we do?
17 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I defer
18 to my first answer . We really, you
19 know, it ' s something we have to work
20 out . And there are different answers .
21 I mean we could, depending on, you know,
22 what the housing situation is in that
23 area . If it ' s a multiple housing
24 complex that ' s all affordable, we could
25 maybe make it a diverse housing and have
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 10
1 them, you know, encourage them to make
2 more money and stay there . And then you
3 have people that have lower income and
4 higher income and you have that
5 diversity and a community feel . I mean
6 there ' s different things that we can do,
7 but we ' re not -- we don ' t really have
8 the solid answer yet .
9 DAVID LEVY : I do think these are
10 the types of answers that we really need
11 to have before we implement the program.
12 I know my feeling about the program, and
13 I assume that some of the other people
14 here would agree with me, that these are
15 some pretty basic questions . And so I
16 congratulate the folks who worked on the
17 plan and the presentations were
18 terrific . And I should mention to the
19 Board that I had the good fortune of
20 crossing paths with Councilwoman Doherty
21 a couple of weeks ago, and we had a
22 conversation, which was a terrific
23 conversation about it . I ' d like to ask
24 these questions , which is why I posed
25 them tonight . I think before you adopt
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 11
1 the plan, it ought to include answers to
2 these questions . And I respectfully
3 submit that to you .
4 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I think
5 it ' s important to clarify here that I
6 think the problems that you ' re talking
7 about are largely focused on
8 multi-family housing . I think one of
9 the real benefits of the housing that ' s
10 really -- the Town Board and the
11 committee really focused on here is
12 private solutions . You know, the three
13 kind of key -- key programs here, you
14 know, the low interest loan program, the
15 no interest loan program, and the
16 deferred rental program, you have less
17 of those issues . Because , you know,
18 once the person owns the house, they own
19 the house . You know, they ' re not going
20 to be thrown out of that house . Though
21 it ' s at the --
22 DAVID LEVY : That ' s where it really
23 does become a problem. One of the
24 things I was going to say to you
25 tonight , is I think if I was running a
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 12
1 program of this sort and we resolved
2 these types of questions , I would try
3 and avoid buying people houses . And I
4 would probably try to do it in a
5 congregate setting where people were
6 renting . Because then if you had to,
7 you could just cut off the benefit .
8 Once you introduce a house, that brings
9 in a whole bunch of new issues . The
10 other problem with that, and I think
11 you ' re Planning people will agree with
12 this . I ' ve heard people on the Board
13 say you could raise about a million
14 dollars a year through this tax . I
15 don ' t know if that ' s a good number or
16 not, but let ' s accept it . If we ' re able
17 to buy people homes that cost up to $ 1 . 2
18 million .
19 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Can I
20 interrupt? This plan is not buying
21 people houses . It ' s helping them buy
22 their own house . The Town is not buying
23 people houses .
24 DAVID LEVY : You can pay up to half
25 the cost .
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 13
1 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : That ' s
2 not -- in the state statute, it says
3 that , but as we spoke a couple of weeks
4 ago, that is not in our plan . We ' re not
5 proposing to give somebody half the cost
6 of their house .
7 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Let me
8 just say, I agree with all , and there ' s
9 a lot of concerns I have that you ' ve
10 raised . Particularly this Town ' s never
11 going to evict anybody . We have to
12 understand that . And there ' s ways of
13 removing the incentive . However, let me
14 just point out, this plan doesn ' t create
15 any projects . It is a Comp Plan . No
16 different than the Comp Plan we just
17 adopted over a year ago, that might ' ve
18 called for an increase of hotels or some
19 other idea that ' s not really well
20 thought out at this point in our Town,
21 but it doesn ' t create any of those
22 things . It just sets a guiding
23 principles . So I agree with you . It
24 needs bumpers . It needs guardrails . No
25 doubt . But it ' s a document in flux .
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 14
1 And again, it will not create one single
2 project .
3 DAVID LEVY : Oh, I understand that .
4 I only mention it because the numeric
5 possibilities based on what you expect
6 to bring in, and what the state law
7 allows , is you might be limited to
8 helping two families a year, which
9 doesn ' t make for a very successful
10 program if you ' ve got 600 families on .
11 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Right .
12 If you read through our plan, we specify
13 up to a certain percentage, and we did
14 not copy the statute that was before us
15 that says 500 . And we don ' t have that
16 in this -- our local plan . Because of
17 that very reason, we don ' t have the
18 funds . And even if a few years down the
19 road we have tons of funds , we still
20 don ' t -- our goal is to help as many
21 people as we can . And if we give them
22 up to 500 of buying a home, we ' re
23 eliminating a lot of people that we can
24 help .
25 DAVID LEVY : I appreciate your
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 15
1 answers . Thank you very much .
2 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I think
3 one of the real benefits of this plan
4 too, and I guess I would push back on
5 your contention that it should be high
6 density housing that we ' re looking to
7 build .
8 DAVID LEVY : I never said that .
9 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : You said
10 congregate housing . Yeah . So
11 congregate , I think when the public
12 hears congregate , when I hear congregate
13 housing, I ' m thinking multi- family
14 housing . I think that does not reflect
15 the priorities of the community . It
16 certainly doesn ' t reflect my priorities .
17 And I think one of the real benefits of
18 this plan is that it allows us to spread
19 density around where density already
20 exists . Really facilitates the
21 construction of accessory apartments ,
22 which I think are great . And also helps
23 first time home buyers , whether they be
24 heroes or just regular folks , who need a
25 little help kind of overcoming those
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 16
1 hurdles . And I think the Town Board
2 generally supports those plans . Is it
3 perfect?
4 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Let me
5 also point out that a lot of the focus
6 seems to be on young people buying
7 housing . But you mentioned before
8 senior housing, this plan lets us do
9 that too .
10 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI :
11 Absolutely .
12 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : And
13 there ' s a lot of seniors that are moving
14 out of this Town for the same reason
15 younger people are . They can ' t afford
16 to live here . And there are provisions
17 for aging in place . That sort of thing .
18 So it ' s like I said, it ' s very
19 comprehensive .
20 DAVID LEVY : I appreciate your
21 answers .
22 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thanks ,
23 Dave . Let me just -- let me do the Zoom
24 first and then I ' ll go to you . I ' m
25 trying to balance it out . Is there any
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 17
1 hands up?
2 MS . MISSY : No hands are up on
3 Zoom .
4 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Okay .
5 You ' re up .
6 ROSEMARY MCKINLEY : My name is
7 Rosemary McKinley and I live in
8 Southold . And I just want something
9 clarified . I went -- I did look on the
10 website tonight before we came because
11 this is pretty comprehensive . It ' s very
12 involved . And I think you ' ve done a
13 great job . In the Community Housing
14 Fund, am I correct in thinking that
15 people would get help up to $2 million
16 on a home?
17 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : No . No .
18 ROSEMARY MCKINLEY : Okay . Can you
19 clarify? That ' s what I thought I read .
20 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I don ' t
21 recall that in there .
22 ROSEMARY MCKINLEY : So that ' s not
23 true?
24 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : No .
25 ROSEMARY MCKINLEY : The rest of the
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 18
1 presentation is what it ' s about?
2 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yes .
3 ROSEMARY MCKINLEY : That ' s all I
4 wanted to know .
5 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank
6 you .
7 GEORGE MAUL : Hello . My name is
8 George Maul . I ' m a resident of Town of
9 Southold and a member of the New Suffolk
10 Civic Association . The North Fork Civic
11 Associations asked me to read a couple
12 of paragraphs . The North Fork Civic
13 Associations are civic associations --
14 the eight civic associations in Town of
15 Southold . So , the North Fork Civic
16 Associations would like to acknowledge
17 the Town Board and the Community Housing
18 Advisory Board for their comprehensive
19 and thoughtful consideration of the
20 Town ' s housing needs . And the North
21 Fork Civic ' s enthusiastically recommend
22 the Town Board ' s adoption of this plan
23 into local law . And we would like to
24 also urge the Town Board to include
25 staffing for a Housing Department or
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 19
1 office in the 2024 Town Budget
2 consistent with the specific
3 recommendations of this plan, and its
4 detailed description of duties in
5 Section 5 . And the North Fork Civics
6 believe that this plan adds additional
7 policy emphasis on a comprehensive
8 approach to increasing diverse options
9 for housing and addressing housing
10 affordability issues in the Town of
11 Southold . And we believe that the
12 hiring of specialized housing staff will
13 increase the Town ' s capacity to
14 effectively implement the goals of this
15 plan, giving the complexities of
16 increasing our inventory of community
17 housing . Thank you very much .
18 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Zoom .
19 MS . MISSY : To un-mute , you can
20 press * 6, if you ' re on your phone . Or
21 just hit the space bar on your computer
22 to speak . Mr . Schroeder?
23 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : We ' ll go
24 with Randy .
25 RANDY WADE : Randy Wade, Greenport .
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 20
1 Thank you so much for this amount of
2 work . It has just been tremendous . And
3 I was able to watch some of the Advisory
4 Committee meetings and the dedication of
5 everybody involved was amazing . Well , I
6 wanted to start off by saying that the
7 first priority of increasing the
8 inventory, I was -- what? I was really
9 happy to see that first priority of
10 increasing the inventory of units . And
11 I mentioned this before, I think the
12 Town needs to be land banking . We ' re
13 not going to have any more land . And
14 that way developers won ' t be looking for
15 the cheapest locations . It really has
16 to be in walkable locations that in 10
17 years from now, when we have a great
18 transit system, will have these nodes of
19 dense housing and congregate and
20 multi-family are going to be necessary,
21 and it ' s a good thing . And I just
22 wanted to tell you, I tried getting two
23 residents of Vineyard View to come to
24 public hearings . Because I happen to be
25 talking to them in Greenport . One works
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 21
1 at Harbor Pet and one works at Fiedler
2 Gallery . And they were really smart,
3 lovely people . Greg, I was surprised to
4 hear that Vineyard View is actually a
5 very moderate income . Like much less
6 than another project that ' s coming .
7 They were grateful to be living there .
8 They said, oh yeah, there had been
9 problems . They evicted one loud family .
10 And they were really grateful for this
11 housing . And that ' s 50 units in one
12 location . And everybody here would be
13 happy to have these two people as
14 neighbors . And so creating new housing,
15 I just think we have to, as this program
16 gets refined, after you pass this law,
17 we have to keep emphasizing that . So
18 that we aren ' t giving a few people a
19 little extra help to compete for the
20 limited number of housing units that
21 we ' ve got . That I think we have to be
22 kind of careful of . And the other thing
23 is , the tasks , I hope you hire somebody
24 with professional Housing Development
25 experience because it wasn ' t actually
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 22
1 mentioned that one of the tasks should
2 be to ensure the creation of new housing
3 units . And I would hope that would be a
4 priority task for this person, but I
5 know you ' re just going to keep working
6 on it, and refining it . So thank you so
7 much for letting me speak .
8 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank
9 you . Missy?
10 MS . MISSY : Okay . Mr . Schroeder,
11 you have permission to speak .
12 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : He ' s
13 still muted .
14 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : He ' s
15 muted on his end?
16 MS . MISSY : Yeah, it ' s him.
17 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Let me
18 just ask . We actually had speakers
19 prior to Randy . Were you able to hear
20 those speakers? Because if someone had
21 indicated they couldn ' t . So they walked
22 out . I just want to make sure you can
23 hear them.
24 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : You
25 have to talk into it and don ' t move your
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 23
1 head back and forth .
2 STEPHEN KIELY : Hey, Scott .
3 Stephen Kiely from Mattituck . First, I
4 just wanted to thank the Town Board, the
5 Community Housing Fund Advisory Board,
6 Jill as a liaison, and consultants for
7 all their hard work that ' s been put into
8 this draft . I was fortunate enough to
9 be part of Shelter Islands Community
10 Housing Fund draft, and I know all the
11 work that goes into it . So kudos to
12 you . I have a couple of comments
13 regarding Chapter 4 entitled,
14 "Recommended Community Housing
15 Expenditures , " which arguably is the
16 most important chapter because it guides
17 the Town Board on how to spend monies
18 from the Community Housing Fund . I
19 wholeheartedly support low interest
20 loans for housing organizations ,
21 not- for-profit entities , homeowners to
22 construct ADU ' s , farmers to create
23 onsite farmer housing . Farm worker
24 housing rather . However, I think you
25 should also add local small business
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 24
1 owners . That they would also be able to
2 qualify for such a loan to construct an
3 apartment either above their business or
4 within their business . So I think that
5 should be specifically called out in the
6 plan . But I do feel that for-profit
7 developers should not be able to avail
8 themselves of such loans . As I would be
9 very, very concerned if a developer
10 would need a $250 , 000 low interest loan
11 to be an incentive . As they should be
12 solvent and in good financial health .
13 My last comment is that if there should
14 be any -- no . Let me take that back .
15 There should be a specific restriction
16 that prohibits any monies to be used for
17 high density floating zone community
18 housing projects or projects that exceed
19 the number of units allowed by the
20 underlying zoning . That ' s just a
21 request that I think should be put in
22 there, but , and I lied, it ' s not my last
23 comment . Now my last comment would be
24 that , and we did this over in Shelter
25 Island, you should allow the Town Board
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 25
1 to construct rental housing . And allow
2 them to purchase land -- use this money
3 to purchase land and build rental
4 housing . And the model that we use in
5 Shelter Island that ' s very good is Manor
6 Homes , where you would have three --
7 from the outside it looks like one big
8 nice home, but on the interior there are
9 three rentals . So I wouldn ' t want
10 people to interpret this plan in the
11 future and say, "Oh, we can only really
12 do loans in this . " I think you should
13 specifically give future town boards , or
14 this Town Board, the ability to spend
15 money to create their own low density
16 rental housing . Thank you .
17 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else
18 would like to address the Town Board?
19 MS . MISSY : I have one on Zoom.
20 Anne , you now have permission to speak .
21 ANNE MURRAY : Can you hear me?
22 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Yes .
23 ANNE SMITH : Okay, hi . Anne Murray
24 from East Marion here . I want to thank
25 everyone for their terrific hard work on
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 26
1 this plan . Especially the -- Mark Terry
2 and Mara, who did a great job of
3 outreach to the community . And I urge
4 the Town Board to pass this plan . This
5 will be the first step . All the
6 details , which is going to be the really
7 hard part comes later . The first most
8 important thing is to just get this
9 passed . And I just want to add several
10 issues stood out to me in reviewing this
11 plan . Number One, is that there ' s very
12 little mention of affordable housing in
13 perpetuity here . Except for the section
14 describing affordable housing, district
15 zones should have affordable housing in
16 perpetuity only . I think that the
17 really important thing going forward, as
18 a lot of people know in the past, the
19 Town Board approved projects that did
20 not remain affordable in perpetuity . A
21 good project that is , is the cottages in
22 Mattituck . And that ' s a great example
23 of housing -- affordable housing done
24 the right way . I also think a community
25 land trust is a great idea . I think
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 27
1 hamlet study updates are great because
2 citing of affordable housing should be
3 different to each hamlet because it ' s
4 crucial for walkability and the
5 transportation needs of residents . And
6 last , mixed income and intergenerational
7 housing are extremely important , I feel ,
8 because our community has changed so
9 much . Southold has become a community
10 with an older demographic, as well as , a
11 much wealthier one . And I think we need
12 some balance here . Thank you .
13 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Thank
14 you, Anne .
15 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank
16 you . Who else would like to address the
17 Town Board on this particular? Chris ?
18 CHRIS MARTIN : Chris Martin from
19 Greenport . I support the plan . The
20 only thing I ask the Town Board to urge
21 to get someone to operate the plan .
22 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank
23 you . Who else would like to address the
24 Town Board on this particular -- please .
25 VERONICA STELZER : My name is
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 28
1 Veronica Stelzer . I ' m from Mattituck .
2 Thank you for this plan . I mean I can
3 talk loud . I can put my teacher voice
4 on .
5 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Put
6 your teacher voice on .
7 VERONICA STELZER : I ' ll put my
8 soccer coach voice on . Listen up .
9 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : That ' s
10 it, girl .
11 VERONICA STELZER : I need a house .
12 I grew up in Mattituck . And it ' s been
13 great living with my dad up until the
14 age of 29, but I need a house . And you
15 know, we talk about a lot of affordable
16 housing, but I ' m not looking to rent .
17 I ' m looking to buy . I ' m looking to
18 build equity and -- sorry .
19 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : You got
20 this .
21 VERONICA STELZER : When Dr . Smith
22 said the generational ties to where I
23 live , I ' ve never felt something more in
24 my heart . My great-grandparents grew up
25 on Oregon Road and then my grandparents
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 29
1 and my dad, and I want that here . I
2 don ' t want to live in an apartment . And
3 I don ' t want to have to talk to my
4 landlord about having affordable rent .
5 I work at Oyster Ponds Elementary
6 School . And I make a really decent
7 living, but I look to buy a home and I ' m
8 completely priced out . And I had an
9 amazing opportunity with the Mattituck
10 Cottages . And I was somebody -- I got
11 cashed out . Somebody beat me to it
12 because they had more than me . And I ' m
13 so grateful for this plan, and I hope
14 that you can keep the character of the
15 community -- while remembering that not
16 all of us want to be in an apartment or
17 be in a condo . We want to -- want to do
18 just like our parents did, and raise our
19 families here too, on a piece of land,
20 with a barbecue in the back . So thank
21 you and I ' m very interested in being a
22 part of the committee or joining an
23 Advisory Commission, because I ' m really
24 shaky right now . But I do have a loud
25 voice .
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 30
1 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : And I
2 know that .
3 VERONICA STELZER : I don ' t plan on
4 going anywhere . So I ' m gonna live here .
5 I just need a little bit of help . So
6 thank you for starting that for me .
7 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Thank
8 you, Veronica .
9 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I was
10 gonna say, I don ' t think there ' s one
11 person in this room that isn ' t behind
12 you . Who else would like to address the
13 Town Board on this particular public
14 hearing housing plan? Anybody in zoom
15 land? No hands raised?
16 MS . MISSY : No hands raised . Okay .
17 Who else would like to address --
18 please?
19 BRIDGET ELKIN : Hi . I ' m Bridget
20 Elkin . I live in Greenport, New York .
21 I ' m a local realtor, and I ' m also on the
22 board of CAS . I think there might be
23 merit to updating the housing market
24 statistics from 2020 . I think that the
25 situation has actually gotten much
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 31
1 worse .
2 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : We
3 realize that .
4 BRIDGET ELKIN : The median income
5 is 600 . It ' s now way over 30o higher .
6 Also the rental figure that was noted, I
7 don ' t think anyone ' s really renting
8 anything around anymore for $ 1 , 500 a
9 month . Unfortunately, it ' s much higher .
10 So I think updating those would give us
11 a clearer picture of how we can help .
12 And then I also just want to mention on
13 the rental front , I have -- because I ' m
14 a board member of CAS , and then of
15 course, a realtor, I have a unique
16 insight into both sides of the coin .
17 And I think that we certainly keep tabs
18 on what people do with the home after we
19 sell it to them. Are they renting it?
20 Are they using it? Have they moved out
21 of the city and now they ' re using it
22 year round? And I think, unfortunately,
23 while I ' m totally in favor of curbing
24 short-term rentals , and you know,
25 there ' s an argument to be made maybe of
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 32
1 increasing our current short-term term.
2 I don ' t think -- I think you could take
3 away all of the rentals in Southold
4 Town . And I don ' t think it ' s going to
5 have a really big impact on the
6 availability of affordable housing
7 rentals . To be frank, I think that
8 people who are renting their home for
9 $ 40 , 000 , $ 60 , 000 a year in the Summer
10 are not -- If that ' s taken away from
11 them, they ' re not going to suddenly turn
12 around and be a service for the
13 affordable housing market . What we ' re
14 seeing on our end is that -- they -- we
15 have seen a number of people sell their
16 homes that are no longer able to rent
17 it . Whether it ' s because Southold Town
18 is cracking down or what have you . And
19 they are, of course , cashing in on the
20 incredible equity they have in their
21 home in Southold Now . Post-COVID versus
22 returning that that home to a year round
23 affordable rental . So I guess it echoes
24 that what some people have said here, I
25 really think we ' re going to address this
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 33
1 problem with building affordable housing
2 and maybe it ' s affordable rentals , but I
3 don ' t think that we ' re going to see a
4 tremendous amount of the homes that have
5 been sold return to affordable rentals .
6 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : And I
7 don ' t -- Yeah, that ' s a different issue
8 for a different day, but I ' d love to
9 have that discussion . But I understand .
10 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : If I
11 can say something? I don ' t disagree
12 with what you said, but I also want to
13 clarify a few things in the plan for
14 those of you haven ' t had a chance to
15 read through it . Anybody that is a
16 recipient of any affordable housing
17 under this plan, whether it ' s a loan or
18 a down payment, is -- they have to live
19 in that house year round . They can ' t
20 just buy the house and then go rent it .
21 So I just want to clarify that for
22 people that we put that stop gap in
23 there . And it ' s -- and I think not any
24 one thing is going to solve our problem.
25 We do, you know -- nothing -- we have to
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 34
1 do a little bit of everything . And I
2 think this plan encompasses that and we
3 -- and what ' s the beauty of the plan is
4 we can change the plan as new products
5 come , and not new land, but new products
6 come to new ways of, you know, kind of
7 spreading this money out . So I just
8 want to , you know, clarify that we ' re
9 not anybody that who is buying a home ,
10 it has to stay in it year round . Same
11 with a accessory apartment . You have to
12 that -- if you get a loan to do an
13 accessory apartment , you have to rent it
14 to somebody year-round that fits under
15 our guidelines .
16 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else
17 would like to address the Town Board on
18 this particular?
19 (No Response ) .
20 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Since
21 this subject is so important and we ' ve
22 worked on it for over a year on a weekly
23 basis , I would ask that we keep this
24 public hearing open until our
25 October 10th meeting, and hold it open
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 35
1 on the 10th .
2 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I ' ll
3 second that .
4 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Written and
5 oral or --
6 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Written
7 and oral .
8 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I ' ll
9 second that .
10 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in
11 favor?
12 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
13 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
14 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
15 COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye .
16 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
17 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye .
18 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
19 PUBLIC COMMENTS
20 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Okay .
21 I ' m gonna invite anybody that would like
22 to address any issue to please feel
23 free . I know a lot of people are here
24 to speak about a singular issue . I just
25 wanna remind you, please don ' t be rude .
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 36
1 Please don ' t bully . Please don ' t
2 personalize it . There is no application
3 pending . The -- if an application comes
4 in and if the Town moves forward with
5 it, there ' ll be ample opportunity to
6 comment at that time too . But I -- we
7 are obviously going to accept all
8 comments that wanna be made tonight .
9 But I also ask you all , ' cause there ' s
10 so many people here , to please be as
11 brief as you can .
12 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : And I
13 just wanna clarify, that anything that
14 is said tonight would not be part of any
15 -- of a future application -- of a
16 record of a future application . Those
17 comments would have to be made again .
18 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Well ,
19 who would like to start? Who would like
20 to start?
21 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Start
22 on any subject .
23 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : They can
24 comment on anything . I was just
25 figuring that was where you wanted to go
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 37
1 with it .
2 DAVID LEVY : I don ' t remember what
3 I was reading, but I wanted to
4 congratulate the Town Board because this
5 hasn ' t been publicized, but you got a
6 Triple A rating for Moody ' s .
7 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : That ' s a
8 really great job, Scott .
9 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank
10 you . Thank you . Please?
11 JOE PROCHILO : Joe Prochilo from
12 Laurel . First of all , I ' d like to
13 comment on the lovely dress code . Thank
14 you so much . And secondly, I have a
15 question . Are there any meetings or
16 organizations where I can go and like
17 meet the candidates ? I know Riverhead
18 has one , where the candidates get
19 together in the public and --
20 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : You know
21 check, I ' m sure both sides have
22 website ' s .
23 JOE PROCHILO : No, no --
24 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Well ,
25 all I can say is that because the Town
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 38
1 can ' t organize or create anything, I
2 would encourage you to reach out to the
3 civic associations who probably have an
4 excellent feed on all of those types of
5 activities that are taken place . Okay .
6 JOE PROCHILO : Thank you .
7 RANDY WADE : Thank you . I ' ll just
8 be really fast . There ' s so many more
9 people here when I saw you online this
10 morning, I was so excited to hear about
11 the land you ' re buying for the police
12 station and courthouse . That was
13 brilliantly done . So concerned it was
14 going to be in the ball field behind the
15 rec center or whatever . So thank you
16 very much .
17 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Thank
18 you . Please .
19 THOMAS MAURI : So I walked out for
20 a second, but someone asked about meet
21 the candidates . The North Fork Civics
22 is having at CAS at 7 o ' clock on October
23 19th meet the candidates with both
24 sides , Democrats and Republicans . And
25 so please come to the -- come to CAS or
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 39
1 we ' re going to try to Zoom it like you
2 guys do . Hopefully we ' ll do as well as
3 you do with that .
4 DENIS NONCARROW : Can I have your
5 name again?
6 THOMAS MAURI : Thomas Mauri .
7 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I will
8 not obviously be participating . I ' m
9 retiring . So I ' m not going because I
10 don ' t want people to say Scott, who?
11 That will happen by January 5th .
12 Who else would like to address the
13 Town Board on any issue . How about
14 Zoom?
15 MS . MISSY : No one in Zoom Land .
16 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All
17 right . Yeah . Go ahead .
18 DAVE BERGEN : Dave Bergen from
19 Cutchogue . I think about five months
20 ago or so, I came before this Board and
21 asked if there had been anything -- any
22 consideration of legislation to address
23 the clear cutting of lots . Particularly
24 with new construction . And I was told
25 yes , the Tree Committee was working on
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 40
1 it . A couple of months later I came
2 back and I was told yes , the Tree
3 Committee is working on it . The Summer
4 is now past . Have we -- do we have any
5 progress being made towards legislation
6 to address the clear cutting of lots
7 when people are constructing homes ?
8 Whether it ' s new homes or just additions
9 to homes?
10 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yes .
11 Unfortunately, the a lot of committees
12 kind of don ' t meet every month in the
13 summertime . So we did not meet in July,
14 but we are closer and I hope to -- the
15 Tree Committee hopes to bring their
16 proposal to the Town Board in the next
17 month or so . We ' re getting close . We ' re
18 working with Assistant Town Attorney
19 Julie, and we ' re narrowing down our --
20 it ' s a whole code we wrote from scratch .
21 So we ' ve been back and forth, and so
22 we ' re trying to get it where we can
23 present it to the Town Board .
24 DAVE BERGEN : Great . And one other
25 issue I wanted to address was Coastal
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 41
1 Zone Resiliency Plan . I know the North
2 Fork Civic said, have approached the
3 Town about mirroring some -- like East
4 Hampton ' s plan, some other plans that
5 have already been established . We know
6 the State has set deadlines for
7 establishing these plans , and we all
8 have read more and more about the
9 importance of establishing these plans .
10 And it was encouraging to hear that
11 while it can ' t be done right now,
12 because we were so burdened with so many
13 things we ' re working on in town hall ,
14 but I sure hope that next year there ' ll
15 be consideration given to the
16 application for the grant funding that ' s
17 available . That for East Hampton ' s
18 case , paid for, I think 1000 of that
19 plan was developed . And to take
20 advantage before those grants dry up or
21 disappear or pull back or whatever, to
22 move forward with developing, either
23 hiring a firm to develop or internally
24 developing a Comprehensive Coastal
25 Resiliency Plan . We know it ' s needed .
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 42
1 It ' s got to be done . And just this week
2 we ' ve seen Mother Nature ' s wrath on us .
3 So please keep that on the priority
4 list .
5 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Yeah .
6 Just as a point of information, I ' m in
7 the process of finishing up my budget ,
8 and I ' m actually proposing an
9 interagency plan . The Planning Board --
10 I met with the civic groups , and the
11 Planning staff are overburdened . They
12 can ' t do it . But I think an
13 inter-department -- I can ' t say that .
14 Involved in all the different
15 departments that would be able to work
16 together . And it would split the heavy
17 lifting . So isn ' t just one department,
18 plus involving some members of the
19 public . And I am including $50 , 000 in
20 my budget that we start the study of
21 coastal resiliency . And also that
22 $ 50 , 000 can be used to match state
23 grants , and possibly creating
24 partnerships with PEP and other groups
25 that are doing it . I would caution
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 43
1 against the East Hampton plan . East
2 Hampton heavily relies on sand
3 restoration, sand retention programs
4 that don ' t work . You know what happened
5 in Montauk . But I think we can, because
6 we have unique circumstances here .
7 We ' re not surrounded by an ocean .
8 Obviously, the bay and the sound . We ' re
9 going to have to come up with some
10 unique circumstances on our own . Some
11 unique solutions . But yes , my budget
12 will include $50 , 000 . It ' s not going to
13 be enough, but I ' ll at least start the
14 ball rolling .
15 DAVE BERGEN : And I did -- I ' ll
16 admit, I didn ' t read cover to cover of
17 the East Hampton plan, but I did go
18 through the East Hampton plan . And it ' s
19 a very comprehensive plan, and it ' s been
20 considered a gold standard plan . And
21 yes , they have a unique shoreline over
22 there that , fortunately or
23 unfortunately, Southold does not have
24 because of the way the glaciers form the
25 North and South Fork . But I just think
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 44
1 it ' s important . And I thank you for
2 putting that in your budget . Hopefully
3 the rest of the Board will support that .
4 And I just think it ' s got to be given a
5 high priority for us , because it ' s going
6 to take a couple of years to develop it .
7 And Mother Nature ' s not going away over
8 the next few years .
9 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : No, no .
10 And look, our decisions are going to
11 have to be made, including there ' s going
12 to be challenges to property rights and
13 all those other things , but in hardline
14 setbacks and things like that . But
15 again, let the plan speak to it . I ' m
16 putting the money in, and we can
17 leverage that with State, hopefully
18 Federal , County . And then obviously
19 create partnerships with all the
20 organizations that are out there, PEP
21 and others that are undertaking it now .
22 So thank you, Dave .
23 THOMAS MAURI : Thank you .
24 TIM FROST : My name is Tim Frost .
25 I ' m a 35 year resident of Orient and I
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 45
1 live in the Historic District . I ' m here
2 today because I ' d like to ask your --
3 and draw your attention to and ask your
4 help in involvement in addressing a long
5 standing festering decade old issue in
6 Orient . And that is 95 Navy Street . I
7 don ' t know how familiar the Board is . I
8 know there are many departments of the
9 Town that are . There are a number of
10 residents that have participated over
11 the years in hearings . There have been
12 residents in Orient that have joined
13 together, and frankly hired legal
14 counsel to advise them . My concern is
15 this is an issue that has gone on for 10
16 years . And I don ' t know how familiar
17 you are with it, but if you ' re not I
18 encourage you to go to 95 Navy Street
19 and also drive down Willow Street,
20 because it ' s a through lot that is
21 actually has frontage on both streets .
22 And it is over 10 years ago that the
23 original building application was
24 applied for to the Board -- to the
25 Building Department . And if you go
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 46
1 there, you ' ll see where we are now . And
2 that original building permit was for
3 the barn . The building which is now
4 cloaked in blue . And I know and I ' m not
5 here to complain about the individual
6 departments or the action of the Board .
7 I ' ve reviewed the file and I ' m familiar
8 with it extensively . And this is a
9 situation which has involved numerous
10 code complaints , cited violations , stop
11 work orders , notices of claim against
12 the Town, two articles of 78 filings
13 against the Town, which fortunately were
14 both denied outright . So it is
15 something that has gone on for ten
16 years . And frankly the Town has been
17 burdened by this because there have been
18 numerous town attorneys that have been
19 involved . There have been changes in
20 the Building Department . I think the
21 ZBA has had a fair amount of consistency
22 in this . The HPC or the Historic
23 Preservation Commission has also
24 changed . The project itself has
25 changed . And frankly, in looking at the
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 47
1 Town and where it is , and the Article 78
2 filings , there are many issues which are
3 in dispute . But there are several that
4 aren ' t in reading the file . And that
5 is , from my review of the file and any
6 number of FOIL ' s I ' ve had in the Town,
7 what the head of the ZBA, Leslie
8 Weisman, has asked for, what was made
9 clear in a Memorandum of Understanding,
10 as part of the Article 78 proceedings at
11 the Supreme Court, that the applicant
12 clearly had done work, which had not
13 been approved or authorized by the
14 Building Department . Those files and
15 those approvals and those plans frankly
16 just don ' t exist . The response to the
17 Memorandum of Understanding in the
18 Article 78 , where the applicant ' s
19 attorney, the owner of that property,
20 had a chance to respond . They were
21 unable to produce any evidence of it .
22 It ' s clear from a review of Chapter 144
23 and 170 , that the Building Inspector in
24 144 has broad authority and latitude to
25 actually require the submission and
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 48
1 production of approved plans for review .
2 And the applicant, the owner of the
3 property, is required to have those on
4 site . And they ' ve never been able to
5 produce the beef on this . This is a
6 project which in its current state ,
7 frankly, is of significant health and
8 safety standard of the community . For
9 those who aren ' t familiar with it, it
10 involves grading and fill up to a four
11 foot level above the existing grade,
12 without any detailed site or grading
13 plan, which is the issue here . There
14 also have been numerous citations with
15 you have been issued . There ' s a stop
16 order -- work order, which has been in
17 place . I would just respectfully ask
18 the Town to consider how we ' re going to
19 resolve this issue, because a continuing
20 stop work order just doesn ' t exist . I ' d
21 ask you to consider the actual
22 enforcement -- enforcement actions ,
23 which are available to the Town, as
24 detailed in Chapter 144 and 170 . And I
25 ask you to look at it closely and help
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 49
1 the residents of Orient resolve this
2 issue . Thank you .
3 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank
4 you . I appreciate it . And we ' ll take
5 it up in the next Executive Session in
6 two weeks . You had your hand up before
7 -- you want to? Come on .
8 MARCO MAIDA: Apologize for my
9 accent . It could be a problem
10 sometimes . So I have, I already talked
11 with some people of the Board .
12 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : We all
13 know you, Mr . Maida . Can you just state
14 your name?
15 MARCO MAIDA: I ' m sorry . I ' m Marco
16 Maida . I live in Cutchogue . Near on
17 the Main Road . And I have a question
18 for the Board in terms of like a
19 specific project is being talked about .
20 And my question here is like is
21 regarding about items of this project
22 about the affordable housing in North
23 Fork Villas . As the ladies was saying
24 before, she is not looking for to be in
25 a crowded living place . And right now,
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 50
1 for what we see, we see a project that
2 has been proposed as 36 houses -- I
3 mean, 36 units in 3 . 2 acres of land .
4 Now my question here is because I ' m
5 trying to understand how this one will
6 move on -- how you, member of the Board,
7 and people that, you know, we did vote
8 for and people that we will vote for
9 again or change our vote for, it ' s like,
10 how do you really feel ? I know that
11 this is a difficult topic right now
12 because you have a lot of questions as
13 well . It ' s not an easy answer right now
14 to decide is this one can move forward
15 or not . But as it is right now, if you
16 get all the answers you want from the
17 builder, 36 houses on 3 . 2 acres , is it
18 something that you guys -- I ' m sorry,
19 you a member of the Board, agree in
20 looking forward to it or as Councilman
21 Doroski was saying before , is more about
22 ownership and is more about spreading it
23 out and is more about like giving people
24 a more human, livable situation with
25 some space between families , and also
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 51
1 some space inside the community to make
2 sure that they are well integrated
3 inside the community of Cutchogue . So
4 that is my question . Is 36 houses -- 36
5 units on 3 . 2 acres , something that if it
6 comes to a vote right now, right in this
7 moment, is it something you will say yes
8 to it or not?
9 PAUL DECHANCE : And Mr . Supervisor,
10 let me add, as you indicated earlier,
11 there ' s no application presently filed
12 or pending before this Board . So you ' re
13 asking for a Board ' s predetermination of
14 an application before it has the
15 application . That would be
16 inappropriate , but certainly whatever
17 comment the Supervisor has for you, he
18 can give you .
19 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I ' m
20 sorry?
21 PAUL DECHANCE : Mr . Supervisor, I
22 believe that you ' re being asked, the
23 Board ' s being asked to predetermine an
24 application before it ' s even filed .
25 That would be inappropriate .
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 52
1 MARCO MAIDA: Okay . I think that
2 is an answer .
3 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I would
4 just say one thing, and he can throw a
5 shoe at me later . I think the idea of
6 that type of density is unprecedented in
7 Southold Town .
8 MARCO MAIDA: Okay . That ' s fair
9 enough . As a neighbor, it would be
10 really scary going from no neighbors to
11 probably 75 people on my backyard, that
12 on top of traffic and everything . Thank
13 you very much for your time .
14 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Please?
15 SAMANTHA MOORE : My name is
16 Samantha Moore . And I am a Cutchogue
17 resident, and I want to speak to Mr .
18 Maida ' s point . What are your
19 determinations or what are your
20 considerations when you ' re determining
21 density for a parcel? And has that been
22 something that you ' ve reviewed when you
23 talked to -- within your housing board,
24 what are their considerations? And how
25 do you yay or nay something like that so
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 53
1 that the community can knows what your
2 plan is ?
3 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Well , I
4 think, you know, at least as it relates
5 to this particular application, we need
6 to wait until there is an application .
7 You know, a plan was presented to us a
8 number of months ago that had 24 units .
9 This plan has been presented with 36
10 units . The Town Board forwarded this
11 individual ' s attorney, a pretty
12 extensive list of questions that we were
13 looking to get answered . And I think
14 we ' re kind of at this stage right now,
15 where we need to have them answer these
16 questions and then the Board needs to
17 decide whether they ' re willing to
18 consider a change of zone . A change of
19 zone is something, that ' s at the sole
20 discretion of the Board . I think at
21 this stage , there was pretty much
22 universal agreement of the Board, that
23 we needed to have these questions
24 answered before we could even consider
25 an application . Once an application is
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 54
1 filed, we can have these questions about
2 what kind of density is appropriate in
3 the area answered . And I think some of
4 that has to do with layout . Some of it
5 has to do with community character . But
6 we really need an application before us
7 for the Board to really kind of seek --
8 seek, you know, sink its teeth into .
9 Just to deal with . I think generally
10 speaking though as the Supervisor
11 pointed out, 36 units is a lot of units .
12 I think these are all questions that
13 would need to be answered as we look at
14 this application . And you know, one of
15 the considerations , one of the questions
16 that we asked this developer was what --
17 you know, are they willing to reduce the
18 number of units ? Is there the
19 possibility of a mix of ownership and
20 rentals ? And it ' s really trying to
21 respond to some of the feedback that
22 we ' ve heard . And I guess , I would like
23 to ask the public to you know, trust the
24 process , and wait to see if this
25 applicant comes back . We submitted this
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 55
1 list of questions what almost a month
2 ago, and we haven ' t heard anything .
3 SAMANTHA MOORE : Okay . But you
4 will notify the public as far as what
5 when you get answers to these questions
6 so people can respond?
7 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI :
8 Absolutely .
9 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : And the
10 time to -- you know, we haven ' t even
11 decided if we would accept an
12 application from them. And that ' s the
13 process where we ' re now . If we don ' t
14 get satisfactory answers on them our
15 decision might be to not accept an
16 application for a change of zone . So we
17 haven ' t decided that yet, because we
18 don ' t have enough information to decide
19 that . And I will say, if -- just for
20 process purposes , if we decide to accept
21 an application, the Town Board will
22 review it . It would go to public
23 hearing, which anybody in the Town can
24 comment on . And we ' ll have plenty of
25 time to comment on . If we approve a
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 56
1 change of zone, then it still has to go
2 through the regular process of Planning
3 and Zoning and Building, which you would
4 also have ample time to comment on
5 details and everything . So that ' s , in
6 general , that ' s our process of the Town .
7 But we ' re way far away from that . We
8 don ' t even -- the questions we asked, we
9 asked for future sustainability of this
10 project . And how are you going to
11 upkeep your financial ' s , and it ' s kind
12 of premature for them to answer it . But
13 they ' re struggling to find answers ,
14 because we won ' t move it forward until
15 we have some satisfaction of some type
16 of answer from them .
17 SAMANTHA MOORE : That was the
18 concern of ours , our business is
19 affordable housing . So, just wanted to
20 see where you are moving forward . That
21 there were no surprises to the
22 residents . And that you ' re -- there are
23 questions , I guess , there ' s all sorts of
24 rumors , obviously . I ' m sure you ' re all
25 familiar .
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 57
1 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : A lot
2 of misinformation out there .
3 SAMANTHA MOORE : Well , just curious
4 on the density . Because I think
5 everybody has , you know, you want to
6 straddle, obviously, meeting the
7 demands , but also maintaining a bucolic
8 setting .
9 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Yeah .
10 The evolution of the density was
11 actually at the time when it was 12
12 units per acre was created . The units
13 were capped at 24 . So it was somewhat
14 self-regulating . 12 per acre seems very
15 dense, but when 24 is the cap of the
16 project of any size piece of property,
17 there was a self-regulating component
18 there . We had since removed the cap
19 because land of 10 acres shouldn ' t be
20 capped the same as land of three acres .
21 I ' m gonna be perfectly candid . I had
22 voted for the 12 per acre based on
23 Suffolk County Department of Health
24 calculations focused mostly on studios .
25 Because that ' s where most of the
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 58
1 affordable housing listing was young
2 single people . And studios was about as
3 far reach as they could make . What I
4 didn ' t stop to think of, is when we
5 lifted or removed the cap, and that was
6 pre this Board, did it in a vacuum . I
7 was admittedly, we should have looked at
8 the entirety . Including the density per
9 acre , and removing caps rather than, I ' m
10 gonna be candid, rather than just
11 looking at one issue as if it ' s separate
12 from the other . It ' s not -- I ' m not
13 saying that 24 has to be a cap . I ' m just
14 saying at the time, it should have been
15 a little bit more thoroughly evaluated .
16 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I think
17 another reason the application is really
18 important, because as we talk about unit
19 count, there ' s a real difference if they
20 were -- let ' s say 36 studio apartments ,
21 compared to 36 three-bedrooms , which are
22 fundamentally different . And I think
23 one thing the Board was pushing this
24 applicant, potential applicant, they ' re
25 not even an applicant yet , on, is having
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 59
1 more potential three-bedrooms because
2 there ' s a need there . I think there ' s
3 pretty much universal agreement on the
4 Board, that if they were to do a bunch
5 of three-bedroom units , they ' re not
6 gonna do 36 three-bedroom units . That ' s
7 hundreds of people adding to that small
8 parcel . I ' m willing to say right now
9 that I would not accept that personally .
10 SAMANTHA MOORE : I think that was
11 the concern . And also whether that
12 density cap would be applicable to any
13 site , or if you ' re doing 12 per acre,
14 let ' s say 12 units per acre, if that was
15 -- if another similar site became
16 available . If that would be because
17 then you would end up you could
18 potentially have --
19 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Hundreds
20 --
21 SAMANTHA MOORE : A hundred units .
22 That would completely change , and the
23 Town obviously .
24 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : The
25 other part of the process , you know,
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 60
1 just because somebody applies for 36
2 units doesn ' t mean they ' ll get approval
3 for that . They have to go through the
4 process . They have to go through Health
5 Department . Health Department
6 determines how many units you can get on
7 their regulations . So they might apply
8 to the Town for 36 units and the Health
9 Department might say, no, we ' re only
10 going to give you 24 or 20 . Then that ' s
11 what they have to be reduced to .
12 There ' s a lot of stopgaps . There ' s a
13 lot of environmental . You know, SEQRA
14 really combs through the process . So
15 just because they apply for something,
16 that doesn ' t mean that that ' s what ' s
17 getting approved .
18 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Let me
19 just say and the attorney can throw a
20 second shoe at me . This is the problem.
21 It ' s a paradox . Developers tell us they
22 need more density to make the affordable
23 housing site work . The problem is that
24 the Town would probably rather see
25 affordable housing that ' s a little less
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 61
1 dance . Because everything in Southold
2 is scope and scale . And the problem is
3 it ' s very difficult to accept zone
4 projects that are of such high density .
5 I ' m not talking about that one -- we ' ve
6 had quite a few in the past that we ' ve
7 rejected even on 20 acres . So that ' s
8 what the Town wrestles with if we want
9 to create affordable housing . I think a
10 lot of hard questions were asked of the
11 developer at that time . Again, not an
12 applicant yet , because of those very
13 concerns . The Board does not want to
14 get it wrong .
15 SAMANTHA MOORE : Thank you .
16 Appreciate it .
17 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Yes ?
18 JACK NORRIS : The problem I see is
19 the wording of your zoning ordinance .
20 The affordable housing . You have set up
21 a standard for tenant occupied and owner
22 occupied that are grossly different .
23 The owner occupied is one unit per
24 10 , 000 square feet . That ' s a statistic
25 that was recommended by several agencies
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 62
1 to you in the past . For some reason,
2 you ' ve selected rental units less than
3 850 square feet that they can use --
4 they need 3300 square feet of land area .
5 It ' s a massive difference in zoning for
6 no logic . There ' s no logic to the 850 .
7 There ' s no logic to the 3300 . And so I
8 think the problem is , it ' s got everybody
9 upset, is you have a zoning ordinance
10 that allows that to happen . You
11 wouldn ' t otherwise have a 36 unit
12 application . You have a 12 or 13 unit
13 application .
14 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Suffolk
15 County Department of Health regulates a
16 lot of that . In fact, they would
17 require based on sanitary flow, things
18 like that . The one unit per acre . And
19 I believe our code actually allows up to
20 six per acre . But 16 is per acre . But
21 I think that would require two of those
22 to be rented? I ' m trying to do what we
23 did at the Cottages , I think . No . I
24 thought we went up to six? No, still
25 four on a single-family? Six in Hamlet
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 63
1 center .
2 JACK NORRIS : That goes my point .
3 I mean, it ' s not a logical standard
4 through 30 .
5 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : No, it ' s
6 Suffolk County --
7 JACK NORRIS : -- immediately came
8 back with 36 units on 3 . 2 acres .
9 Immediately .
10 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Suffolk
11 County Department of Health regulates
12 that the single- family --
13 JACK NORRIS : I would be more
14 comfortable if the zoning ordinance said
15 one per 10 , 000 square feet in owner
16 occupied units . That ' s something
17 probably a Town can live . Not the --
18 not the way it ' s worded right now .
19 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I think
20 the benefit of the way the code is
21 written now though, it ' s at the sole
22 discretion of the Town Board to allow
23 this change of zone --
24 JACK NORRIS : But if you do the
25 change of zone then an owner of that
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 64
1 property has a as of right, that
2 density .
3 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Change
4 of zone would actually have to follow
5 conditions , covenants and restrictions
6 as a part of that change of zone . In
7 other words , there doesn ' t become a
8 matter of right because they would be
9 granted almost like a variance, only
10 through the Town Board and they
11 covenants the restrictions . And all of
12 that would have to be --
13 JACK NORRIS : I would be -- I would
14 be concerned that you ' re correct about
15 that .
16 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Oh, I ' m
17 a 100% correct . Been through it too
18 many times . Sorry, the Cottages is a
19 good example of covenants or
20 restrictions that required the
21 perpetuity, but trust me, I share your
22 concerns . Trust me . I share your
23 concerns on the specific project . I
24 just want to say as the general will
25 have the zoning --
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 65
1 DENIS NONCARROW : Your name for the
2 record, sir, please?
3 JACK NORRIS : Jack Norris ,
4 ( inaudible ) Main Road .
5 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I do have
6 to say though, I do agree with some of
7 your concerns with, you know, this
8 disparity in there . And I think this is
9 worth considering as a Board for us to
10 look into . Just evaluating it . And I
11 know this is something that -- that ' s
12 been discussed . And I think as we ' re
13 looking at the zoning update , could be
14 useful and kind of reconciling and
15 really asking ourselves the hard
16 question of what we ' re seeking to
17 promote and what we ' re seeking to
18 prevent here . And I think these are the
19 sort of things .
20 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I agree
21 with Greg 1000 . If the code -- if we ' re
22 comfortable with the code , then you
23 certainly owed an explanation, a clear
24 one, as to why the code is written the
25 way it ' s written . So I think the Board
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 66
1 agrees with that .
2 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yeah, I
3 mean, Heather has touched on aspects of
4 the code that kind of don ' t meet . And
5 that ' s what our review is going to be --
6 of all these details . And it ' s going to
7 take a while .
8 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL :
9 Appreciate your very thoughtful
10 comments . Who else would like to
11 address the Board? The attorney ' s going
12 home barefoot . Come on up .
13 RICHARD CLUTE : Good evening, as a
14 point of clarity .
15 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I ' m
16 sorry, Mr . Clute , can you state your
17 name for the record, please?
18 RICHARD CLUTE : Richard Clute,
19 Orient . Further in Mr . Frost ' s summary
20 of our neighborhood frustration, who do
21 we look to followup with to get how this
22 project to be resolved? Is there one
23 point of contact?
24 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Well ,
25 luckily the attorney doesn ' t have a
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 67
1 third shoe . I ' m going to say the
2 attorney ' s office .
3 RICHARD CLUTE : I couldn ' t hear
4 that .
5 PAUL DECHANCE : Let me clarify .
6 Again, no application is pending . When
7 an application is filed, then you have
8 -- you will receive notice of a public
9 hearing .
10 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Sorry,
11 Paul . He switched back to the Orient --
12 PAUL DECHANCE : Then I don ' t need
13 my third shoe . Okay . In terms of the
14 Navy Street?
15 RICHARD CLUTE : Yes .
16 PAUL DECHANCE : The Town Attorney ' s
17 office has significant traffic coming
18 in, in terms of phone calls and
19 complaints concerning that parcel . As
20 you ' ve heard, we ' ve had two matters of
21 litigation that both resolved in the
22 Town ' s favor . I understand it ' s been 10
23 years . Currently there ' s a stop -work
24 order pending on the parcel and their
25 citations that have been issued fairly
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 68
1 recently . So I understand the Town
2 Board intends to talk about that in an
3 Executive Session, where I think that ' s
4 appropriate, but you certainly can call
5 my office and speak to me directly . And
6 I ' d be happy to talk to you about
7 whatever your concerns are .
8 RICHARD CLUTE : Thank you very
9 much .
10 PAUL DECHANCE : Thank you sir .
11 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank
12 you, Richard .
13 Who else would like to address the
14 Town Board? Any issue , please?
15 JIM MOORE : Good evening, Jim
16 Moore . Quick question about multifamily
17 rental in general . For developers
18 coming before your Affordable Housing
19 Committee, is there a qualified and
20 eligible sponsor type process? Their
21 ability to develop, operate, experience,
22 track record resume?
23 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I think
24 that ' s an excellent point and I think
25 Greg addressed a lot of that with the
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 69
1 questions . And that ' s probably
2 something that again has to be as part
3 of or a thorough consideration as part
4 of the housing plan . I agree 1000 .
5 Greg raised a lot of those issues .
6 You ' re talking about the viability of
7 someone to actually build and maintain?
8 JIM MOORE : Viability and a track
9 record of operating affordable housing .
10 Multifamily affordable housing operation
11 is a very different animal than market
12 rates . Very, very different .
13 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I think
14 that was a point made very clear the day
15 that the potential applicant was there
16 and Greg answered some -- asked some
17 very hard questions . I agree 1000 .
18 That ' s a big thing .
19 JIM MOORE : I ' ve read briefly the
20 proposed development for the Cutchogue
21 project . They have on their own
22 website . They have no mention
23 whatsoever of any history at all in
24 developing and operating affordable
25 housing . This would be their first
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 70
1 fraught with peril .
2 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : This
3 would be their first one and that ' s what
4 our concern is .
5 JIM MOORE : That ' s an enormous
6 concern .
7 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : That ' s
8 come up . We ' re well aware of it . It
9 certainly come up as part of the
10 discussion .
11 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : And we
12 developed a checklist --
13 JIM MOORE : You might very well
14 poison the well , public support for
15 affordable housing . If density was
16 handed to an operator, who does not know
17 what they ' re doing, and it goes badly .
18 All the good will that you heard tonight
19 would be gone . I encourage you to think
20 about that very, very carefully, about
21 who you pick for these projects .
22 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL :
23 Absolutely .
24 JIM MOORE : Thank you for your
25 time .
SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 71
1 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank
2 you . Who else would like to address the
3 Town Board?
4 (No Response ) .
5 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Can I
6 get a motion to adjourn?
7 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I ' ll make
8 a motion to adjourn .
9 COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Second .
10 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in
11 favor?
12 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
13 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
14 COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye .
15 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
16 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
17 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye .
18
19 (Whereupon, the meeting concluded
20 at this time . )
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SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 REGULAR MEETING 72
1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
2
3 I , Jessica DiLallo, a Notary Public
4 for and within the State of New York, do
5 hereby certify :
6 THAT , the within transcript is a
7 true record of said Board Meeting .
8 I further certify that I am not
9 related either by blood or marriage to
10 any of the parties to this action; and
11 that I am in no way interested in the
12 outcome of this matter .
13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto
14 set my hand this day,
15 October 10 , 2023 .
16
17
18 ( Je ica Lallo )
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