HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-08/29/2023 PH 1 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK: STATE OF NEW YORK
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TOWN BOARD
4 REGULAR BOARD MEETING
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Southold, New York
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August 29 , 2023
9 4 : 30 P .M.
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15 B E F 0 R E :
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17 SCOTT A. RUSSELL, SUPERVISOR
18 LOUISA P . EVANS , JUSTICE
19 JILL DOHERTY , COUNCILWOMAN
20 BRIAN 0 . MEALY, COUNCILMAN
21 GREG DOROSKI , COUNCILMAN
22 SARAH E . NAPPA, COUNCILWOMAN
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AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 2
1 PUBLIC HEARINGS
2 HISTORIC LANDMARKS
3 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : So the
4 first public hearing tonight is for the
5 designation of High House with artist
6 studio and accessory structures located
7 at 7134 Indian Neck Lane , Peconic , New
8 York, as a historic landmark, and
9 directs it to be added to the Town ' s
10 register of historic landmarks . In the
11 folder here , I have a copy of the
12 affidavit for publication in the Suffolk
13 Times . I have a copy of the legal
14 notice , a copy of the affidavit that the
15 notice was posted on the Clerk ' s
16 bulletin board in the back. Signed by
17 our Town Clerk, Denis Noncarrow, a copy
18 of the resolution . That ' s what I got .
19 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I ' m
20 going to invite anybody that would like
21 to comment on this particular Local Law,
22 to please feel free .
23 MARIELLA OSTROSKI : Thank you . My
24 name is Mariella Ostroski . I ' m the
25 Chair of the Historic Preservation
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 3
1 Commission, and I consider this a
2 trifecta . This particular property
3 fulfills many elements that make it
4 compatible with landmarking . In that it
5 is on the Slia ( phonetic ) list , which is
6 an automatic approval . It also speaks
7 to our cultural heritage with regard to
8 art at the Peconic colony, which was
9 really that was the beginning of it for
10 our community . And the other element is
11 the architectural significance of the
12 property, and the buildings on the
13 property . So this is just a wonderful
14 opportunity for the Town to preserve
15 something that ' s really important to our
16 community and our history . I ' d like to
17 thank Wendy Prelitz for being willing to
18 do this for herself , and for the
19 community . And so it ' s just a wonderful
20 thing for us . So thank you .
21 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank
22 you . Anybody else like to comment?
23 (No Response ) .
24 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Motion to
25 close the hearing then .
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 4
1 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Second.
2 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in
3 favor?
4 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
5 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
6 COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye .
7 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
8 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
9 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye .
10
11 CHAPTER 260 VEHICLE AND TRAFFIC .
12 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : The
13 purpose of tonight ' s second public
14 hearing is to consider certain changes
15 to Section 260 of the Town Code entitled
16 Vehicles and Traffic . The proposed
17 change to be considered by the Board is
18 the addition of a crosswalk to be
19 located on Old Sound Road, approximately
20 150 feet east of the intersection of Old
21 Sound Avenue and Westphalia Road,
22 Mattituck . And in the folder here , I
23 have a copy of the affidavit of
24 publication in the Suffolk Times . A
25 copy of the legal notice . A copy of the
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 5
1 affidavit signed by our Town Clerk that
2 it was posted on the back bulletin
3 board, and a copy of the resolution .
4 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : That ' s
5 everything . I ' m going to invite anybody
6 that would like to address this
7 particular public hearing to the Town
8 Board? Anybody out in the Zoom?
9 (No Response ) .
10 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Make a
11 motion we close the public hearing .
12 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Second.
13 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in
14 favor?
15 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
16 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
17 COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye .
18 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
19 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
20 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye .
21
22 CHAPTER 126 ELECTRICAL INSPECTIONS ,
23 CHAPTER 144 FEES , CHAPTER 148 FLOOD
24 DAMAGE PREVENTION, CHAPTER 277 WIND
25 ENERGY
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 6
1 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : So the
2 purpose of tonight ' s third Public
3 Hearing is to consider certain changes
4 to Section 126 of the Town Code entitled
5 Electrical Inspections . The proposed
6 change to be considered by the Board is
7 to establish at Section 126-1 , that all
8 building department fees for inspections
9 shall be established from time to time
10 by resolution of the Town Board. In the
11 folder here , I have a copy of the
12 affidavit of publication in the Suffolk
13 Times . A copy of the legal notice . A
14 copy of the affidavit signed by our Town
15 Clerk that it was posted on the Clerk ' s
16 bulletin board and a copy of the
17 resolution .
18 The purpose of tonight ' s fourth
19 public hearing is to consider certain
20 changes to Section 144 of the Town Code
21 entitled Fire Prevention and Building
22 Code Administration . The proposed
23 change to be considered by the Board is
24 the removal of all building department
25 fees from code Section 144-8 and 144-15 .
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 7
1 And establishing same be set from time
2 to time by resolution of the Town Board .
3 The proposed change also eliminates the
4 right to a refund of permit fees in the
5 event of a denial of permit . And then
6 in this folder here , I have a copy of
7 the affidavit of publication in the
8 Suffolk Times . A copy of the legal
9 notice . A copy of the affidavit that it
10 was posted on the Town Clerk ' s bulletin
11 board in the back, and a copy of the
12 resolution itself .
13 The purpose of tonight ' s fifth
14 Public Hearing is to consider certain
15 changes to Section 148 of the Town Code
16 entitled Flood Damage Prevention . The
17 proposed change to be considered by the
18 Board is the removal of all building
19 department fees from code Section
20 148-12 , and establishing the same to be
21 set from time to time by resolution of
22 the Town Board. In the folder here , I
23 have a copy of the affidavit of
24 publication in the Suffolk Times along
25 with a copy of the ad . A copy of the
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 8
1 legal notice . A copy of an affidavit
2 signed by our Town Clerk Denis Noncarrow
3 that it was posted on the back bulletin
4 board, and a copy of the resolution
5 itself .
6 The purpose of tonight ' s sixth
7 Public Hearing is to consider certain
8 changes to Section 277 of the Town Code
9 entitled Wind Energy . The proposed
10 change to be considered by the Board is
11 the removal of all building department
12 fees from code Section 277-5 and
13 establishing the same to be set from
14 time to time by resolution of the Town
15 Board. In the folder here , I have a
16 copy of the affidavit of publication in
17 the Suffolk Times , along with a copy of
18 the ad . A copy of the legal notice
19 itself . A copy of the affidavit that
20 the legal notice was posted on the
21 Clerk ' s bulletin board in the back
22 signed by our Town Clerk Denis Noncarrow
23 and a copy of the resolution .
24 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : So I ' m
25 going to ask anybody that ' s been
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 9
1 following along , would like to comment
2 on any of these?
3 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Basically
4 taking Building Department fees out of
5 Local Laws and putting them where we can
6 set them by Resolution .
7 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : It ' s in
8 the code in many different sections . So
9 we need to pull it out of all of them
10 separately .
11 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : No
12 comment .
13 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Make a
14 motion to close the public hearing .
15 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Second.
16 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in
17 favor?
18 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
19 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
20 COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye .
21 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
22 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
23 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye .
24
25 CHAPTER 207 RENTAL PERMITS ,
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 10
1 CHAPTER 280 ZONING
2 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : The
3 purpose of tonight ' s seventh public
4 hearing is to consider certain changes
5 to Section 207 of the Town Code entitled
6 Rental Permits . The proposed changes to
7 be considered include , one , a
8 clarification of the legislative intent
9 and changes to certain definitions .
10 Two , a prohibition against the rental of
11 parcel amenities not in conjunction with
12 the permitted rental unit occupancy .
13 Three , new rules concerning the
14 advertisement of rentals , which are
15 applicable to an owner, agent , and
16 broker . And four, stepped up fines and
17 penalties for violation of said chapter .
18 PAUL DECHANCE : And again, for the
19 benefit of the Board, the next Public
20 Hearing could be taken as a joint Public
21 Hearing, in that they speak to the same
22 issues .
23 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Okay . So
24 regarding the first one , in the folder
25 of the rental permits , I have comments
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING
1 from the Suffolk County Planning
2 Commission, defining this as a local
3 determination . Thank you . Notice sent
4 to the adjacent towns , affidavit of
5 publication in the Suffolk Times , along
6 with a copy of the ad . A copy of the
7 legal notice , a copy of the affidavit
8 signed by our Town Clerk, Denis
9 Noncarrow, that it was posted on the
10 back bulletin board. And a copy of the
11 resolution itself .
12 The purpose of tonight ' s eighth
13 Public Hearing is to consider certain
14 changes to Section 280 of the Town Code
15 entitled Zoning , by adding the
16 definition of transient rental amenity
17 and by including same as a prohibition
18 use in all districts . In the folder , I
19 have comments from the Suffolk County
20 Planning Commission, classing this as a
21 local determination, comments from the
22 South Old Town Planning, a notice sent
23 to adjacent towns , affidavit of
24 publication in the Suffolk Times along
25 with a copy of the ad, an affidavit of
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 12
1 publication in the day, copy of the
2 legal notice , copy of the affidavit of
3 posting signed by our town clerk, Denis
4 Noncarrow, that it was posted on the
5 back bulletin board, and a copy of the
6 resolution itself .
7 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I ' m
8 going to invite anybody that would like
9 to comment on these public laws , please
10 feel free?
11 ELIZABETH BRITTMAN : Hi . My name ' s
12 Elizabeth Brittman . I ' m just here to
13 voice concerns . I ' m kind of
14 disheartened that there aren ' t more
15 people here because there ' s a lot of
16 talk in the community about what ' s been
17 going on with the short-term rentals .
18 And again , I just want to preface this ,
19 if anybody here is an Airbnb person or
20 whatever, no offense . It ' s just to be
21 living next to this is , it ' s just we ' re
22 losing our community . I don ' t know how
23 else to say it , but that my home is on
24 West Creek, which is at the end of Goose
25 Creek. Three within the last year, 16 ,
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 13
1 18 months , three of my adjacent backyard
2 properties are now Airbnb ' s . And every
3 weekend, I have new neighbors . And I ' d
4 like to introduce you to a couple that
5 were here not long ago . Hopefully
6 you ' ll be able to hear it , because it ,
7 this was at five o ' clock in the
8 afternoon . And this just went on .
9 (Whereupon, a video was played . )
10 ELIZABETH BRITTMAN : It goes on .
11 It just -- this is the gist of it . it
12 was -- it was some kind of drinking game
13 where you had to bang and count , and
14 then everybody was doing shots . So it
15 went on .
16 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Can you
17 just speak to us .
18 ELIZABETH BRITTMAN : I am sorry .
19 And I feel really passionate about it .
20 It ' s just , you know, another weekend,
21 the night of the Perseid ' s . I was
22 outside , you know, I have a special
23 chair I sit on . And you know, and then ,
24 and I respect -- look, and if it was my
25 neighbor and they were having a campfire
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 14
1 doing their thing, I would get it -- but
2 these are just -- and I also understand
3 that people on vacation, woo-hoo . Like
4 1 get it . I want to do that too, and I
5 go away . But you know, people need to
6 know they ' re in a residential area .
7 This is not a business . I did not buy
8 my home . I haven ' t had this home since
9 1997 to be next to a hotel . And this is
10 -- what it is now, it ' s pitch black and
11 dark. You know, unless they leave the
12 lights on . That ' s another thing, you
13 have these bright spotlights because
14 people don ' t know to turn off switches
15 when they leave . You know, it ' s -- it ' s
16 just -- it ' s just tearing it apart . You
17 know, and for seeing our neighbors and
18 people that we used to know, you know,
19 you could be out front , I ' m weeding,
20 somebody, you know -- now it ' s just
21 like , you don ' t know who these --
22 anybody is . It ' s just very
23 disheartening for me in the community to
24 see this happening to us . And I know
25 it ' s difficult for the businesses . I ' ve
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 15
1 read there was a woman who ' s had a
2 business here on Main Road since 2011 .
3 And she ' s using it like , if -- if the
4 short-term rental thing changes , she ' s
5 going to lose -- you know, it ' s going to
6 impact her business . Well , I live here .
7 You know, this is not -- if you don ' t
8 have the community that brought people
9 in sustained, and it just goes on with
10 everything, with all the big hotels and
11 a lot of the push that ' s going on for
12 development , I just feel like we need to
13 be careful in anything you can do to
14 change what ' s going on with these two
15 nights , three nights thing .
16 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : So can
17 1 just make a couple of comments? What
18 we ' re doing tonight on these is the two
19 sections of the code is strengthening
20 the code . So our Town Attorney through
21 the Code Enforcement Department can, you
22 know, kind of enforce the code a little
23 bit better and more . And also when you
24 have that , and you want to complain,
25 please go through our Town website and
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 16
1 do our Code Enforcement and put a
2 complaint through there . You can do it
3 anonymous if you want to , but that
4 builds the case for us and alerts the
5 Code Enforcement to keep their eye on
6 that , and then research it to find out
7 if they ' re acting outside the current
8 code .
9 ELIZABETH BRITTMAN : And I ' ve tried
10 to report it and I was told I couldn ' t
11 file that complaint anonymously . And
12 these are people that --
13 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : You can
14 now. So it ' s through the Town
15 Attorney ' s Office , because they oversee
16 the Code Enforcement . But on our
17 website , you could submit a complaint .
18 And if you want to --
19 ELIZABETH BRITTMAN : I don ' t know,
20 how do you enforce it? Is anybody going
21 to go and knock on these?
22 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Well ,
23 that ' s the problem. We need to gather
24 information first . And these laws are
25 strengthening -- we ' re strengthening
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 17
1 these laws to make their job a little
2 easier .
3 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I ' m
4 going to say that I think what we ' re
5 doing tonight is completely insufficient
6 for what we need to do, but I ' m going to
7 reserve all of my comments till after
8 everybody speaks .
9 Who else would like to address the
10 Town Board on this particular?
11 WAYNE ROBINSON : Hi there . My name
12 is Wayne Robinson . And I ' m really
13 terribly sorry about the kind of thing
14 that can happen . There are lots of
15 Airbnb owners , of course , who adhere to
16 some , you know, try to keep their guests
17 to some kind of reasonable behavior .
18 You know, everything does not have to be
19 a party . There ' s a lot of competing
20 interest in this . And I feel that the
21 Town Board has to take those interests ,
22 obviously , and understand that we have
23 commercial part of it . The business
24 community . Undoubtedly, there are bad
25 eggs , but not everybody is a bad egg .
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 18
1 And I think it ' s important that the Town
2 recognizes that . And hopefully we can
3 find a compromise that would work, so
4 that people are not getting , you know,
5 hassled. I think it ' s important that we
6 have a community that can somehow come
7 together on this . So thank you very
8 much .
9 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I just ,
10 1 would like to make it clear that these
11 code changes that we have , the subject
12 of the hearing tonight , are not changing
13 the 14-day policy that we ' re also
14 talking about . That ' s not what tonight
15 is . This is just about strengthening
16 the code that we have in order to
17 enforce it properly .
18 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else
19 would like to address the Town Board on
20 this particular Local Law?
21 MR. STEVE : Steve ( inaudible ) . I
22 have a question about the 14-day policy .
23 So it is code that rentals are
24 restricted to a minimum of 14 days . Is
25 that correct?
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 19
1 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : That ' s
2 -- that ' s the theory, yes .
3 MR. STEVE : And that would
4 presumably alleviate this woman ' s
5 problem?
6 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : No .
7 MR. STEVE : My comment is extending
8 the 14 days to a month . I ' m well aware
9 of the acute need for affordable
10 housing . I ' m extremely concerned about
11 the need for affordable housing .
12 However, as a homeowner, I think the
13 homeowner should have the right , if they
14 meet the 14-day rental requirement , if
15 they have the safety . If they have
16 smoke detectors . If they have carbon
17 monoxide detectors , should be allowed to
18 rent their home after they fulfill the
19 14-day requirement . There have to be
20 better ways to solve the affordable
21 housing issue in Town , than depriving a
22 homeowner the right to be able to rent
23 their home after -- for a two-week
24 minimum period. I don ' t think that
25 solves affordable housing . I think we
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 20
1 need to have a much better plan .
2 Perhaps a carve out , when there ' s a new
3 hotel being built in Southold. Is it
4 possible to demand, require a carve-out ,
5 so that they can have housing to
6 accommodate their new employees? I
7 mean, there has to be a way to solve
8 affordable housing , other than depriving
9 a homeowner the right to be able to rent
10 their own home .
11 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : So just
12 to be clear, this doesn ' t change the
13 limit or the minimum. The current
14 minimum is 14 days . The problem is the
15 code is it was written, it was very,
16 very difficult to enforce . So we ' re
17 adding some mechanisms in here , some
18 tools , to make the code as is currently
19 written, more enforceable .
20 MR. STEVE : I am not in disputing
21 that . My understanding was there is
22 also a move to extend the 14 days to a
23 30 day minimum.
24 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Right .
25 And we ' re not talking about that
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 21
1 tonight . We have to stick to the
2 subject of the hearing, and that ' s why I
3 explained .
4 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : So there
5 was -- just to provide some context .
6 There was some debate on the Board, and
7 1 suspect the Supervisor is going to
8 make some comments at the end,
9 advocating for 30 days . But what we ' re
10 currently considering , and what there
11 was consensus on the Board to consider,
12 was just making our current code
13 enforceable . I think it ' s the belief of
14 the Board that good code should be
15 enforceable . Let ' s make our code
16 enforceable , as it ' s currently written,
17 and then go from there .
18 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : And also,
19 it ' s not just what we ' re hearing
20 tonight . It ' s also that pools and stuff
21 can ' t be rented out on their own .
22 MR. STEVE : I ' m with you 100% on
23 that . I ' m just trying to avoid what she
24 has gone through, but also enable
25 homeowners to be able to derive revenue
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 22
1 from the property in which they own .
2 Thank you .
3 PAUL DECHANCE : Maybe I should
4 clarify further for those of us here
5 that are interested. The proposed
6 changes to the law have nothing to do
7 with the duration of the short term
8 rental . They were , as Councilwoman
9 indicated, we created a prohibition
10 against renting a particular amenity at
11 the parcel . Because we found that there
12 were pools being rented, for instance ,
13 for hours at a time . We determined that
14 the amount of fines should be altered to
15 provide some disincentive . So you ' ll
16 see higher fines . And they will go up
17 to, as far as , if the Board adopts this ,
18 two times the 14 day rental fee . That
19 would be the maximum. In addition,
20 those responsible have increased. They
21 are not only the owner, but they can be
22 the broker, the real estate agent .
23 Anyone that is showing the parcel where
24 there ' s a rental of two weeks or less .
25 And most significantly, I think what
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 23
1 you ' ll find is what the law does is it
2 requires the valid rental permit number
3 to be advertised. Anywhere the short
4 term -- anywhere the rental is published
5 or advertised or placed on social media ,
6 wherever the case is , it must now
7 include , if the Board passes this and
8 adopts this proposed law, it must -- the
9 valid current rental permit number must
10 be listed . Because we ' re finding that
11 in many cases the rental permit numbers
12 don ' t exist . Because there ' s no permit
13 to do what they ' re doing . So if that
14 clarifies anything .
15 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else
16 would like to address the Board?
17 HENRY WASLOW: Good evening , Henry
18 Walslow, 541 ( inaudible ) . I ' m just
19 trying to come to this meeting to get a
20 little bit more information . I heard
21 the word "enforcement . " Very
22 interesting word enforcement . I ' d like
23 to see enforcement number one , and
24 statistics number two , after these new
25 laws get put into place . Rather than
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 24
1 just have words , I want to see some
2 action . 14 day rental , it ' s not -- I
3 don ' t see 14 days . I see weekends . And
4 one weekend to the next , and who ' s
5 keeping track of who ' s here for the
6 weekend. So what I ' d like to see is
7 enforcement . And I understand that
8 you ' re getting some more code
9 enforcement officers ; is that correct?
10 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Trying
11 to .
12 HENRY WASLOW: Trying to . Thank
13 you .
14 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else
15 would like to address the Town Board on
16 this particular public hearing?
17 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Do you want
18 to say anything?
19 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Yes , I
20 do . Nobody from Zoomland?
21 MS . MISSY : No one from Zoomland.
22 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : First of
23 all , I was the one that proposed 30
24 days . The fact of the matter is , is
25 that enforcement is difficult . When
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 25
1 this battle -- I ' m sorry , when this was
2 deliberated in 2015 , the Town Board
3 largely tried to pick between two
4 options . One week or 30 days . One week
5 didn ' t really get us anywhere , because
6 it ' s still a lot for a weekend turnover .
7 So at the time , we decided we ' re going
8 to go two weeks . 14 days and 14 days
9 would be turnover only twice a month .
10 The law isn ' t working . We didn ' t get it
11 right . I ' m the first to admit I didn ' t
12 get it right . It ' s very difficult to
13 enforce when you allow turnover even
14 twice a month . People say, well , what ' s
15 the distinction between 14 and 30 days?
16 Well , the reality is , the less you allow
17 for turnover , the easier it is to
18 enforce . Also, with all due respect to
19 the gentleman that said, I believe you
20 have the right to rent your home . Why
21 don ' t you have the right to rent your
22 home? You didn ' t buy that right . You
23 didn ' t buy the right to operate a
24 commercial operation, which is what ' s
25 taking place in a residential zone . You
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 26
1 bought the right to have a home . You
2 bought the right to use it as a home .
3 Period . The reality is , that under the
4 code , historically , 30 days along has
5 always been viewed as a residential use .
6 That ' s what you bought . We tried to
7 sanction the commercial use . It did not
8 work. Like I said, I ' m the first to
9 admit we got it wrong . Another
10 gentleman said, we have to balance the
11 residential and the commercial part of
12 it . Again, there is no commercial part
13 of it . There shouldn ' t be a commercial
14 part of it . There is a narrow and
15 limited ability to pursue a commercial
16 use , which is called a BNB . That
17 requires that the owner be on site and
18 it ensures much more appropriate
19 behavior . The reality is , the
20 residential zones are turning into
21 commercial zones . We have hundreds and
22 hundreds and hundreds of Airbnb ' s in
23 Southold Town, and very few are even
24 making a modest effort to comply . Yes ,
25 we have to beef up code enforcement . I
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 27
1 do know this Town Board and I disagree
2 very much on the 30 days . But I think
3 we ' ve all committed ourselves to bring
4 far more resources to code enforcement ,
5 than that ' s been needed in the past .
6 We ' re already starting to see more
7 enforcement there . But the reality is ,
8 it needs enforcement , but we have to
9 recognize is that what we ' re enforcing
10 are rules that still allow for
11 commercial use . That ' s not the intent
12 of the zoning . It ' s time to get it back
13 to a residential use . It ' s getting out
14 of hand. All right . Another thing I
15 want to say, and this is very succinct ,
16 and these aren ' t my words . I don ' t know
17 if many people recall Benja Schwartz
18 that used to come to Town Hall and he
19 spoke on many issues . Benja once said
20 that when you rent out your home , you ' re
21 renting out your community . He ' s 100%
22 right . You ' re renting out your home .
23 You ' re renting out the beach down the
24 block. You ' re renting your entire
25 neighborhood . And the reality is , we
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 28
1 have the right to regulate that . We
2 have the right to make sure that that
3 rent stays a residential rent . If you
4 want to rent for a shorter period of
5 time , we have zoning for that . It ' s
6 called commercial zoning . And I would
7 urge people to invest in those areas .
8 All right . Again, I strongly ask this
9 Board to reconsider 30 days . Our own
10 Town Attorney said it would make our
11 efforts more enforceable . If we ' re
12 serious about it , if we ' re serious about
13 all this rhetoric , about 14 days , or the
14 short term rentals hurting our
15 affordable housing goals . It ' s hurting
16 the inventory of rental . I don ' t know
17 how many that we ' re going to create . I
18 don ' t know how much it ' s hurting, the
19 year round rentals , or even the
20 affordable rentals . I don ' t know what
21 the impact is , but I know currently the
22 impact -- it will matter zero . Zero
23 impact if we don ' t make those changes .
24 And I think we need to make those
25 changes . The Affordable Housing
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 29
1 Commission -- the Affordable Housing
2 Community Committee , with some of these
3 Board members are all too willing to
4 stand out in front of and to take credit
5 for , that group on Page Five of their
6 several hundred pages of report made it
7 clear . And then again time and time
8 again through that report , about
9 Airbnb ' s , being a deleterious impact on
10 year round rentals . That own
11 committee -- if you ' re going to put a
12 group together and you ' re going to
13 accept everything they say to create
14 Affordable Housing Plan, don ' t discard
15 that , which is exactly what this Board
16 is doing . We have an obligation to the
17 public . We have an obligation to our
18 own zoning code . Restore residential
19 zoning to its proper use . Now a Board
20 member is going to say, Scott , this was
21 unenforceable under your watch . He ' s a
22 100% right . So help us fix it . Help me
23 correct my own mistake . The mistake I
24 made some eight years ago . With that ,
25 again, thank you for your patience . I
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 30
1 probably went on way too long .
2 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Scott ,
3 since you ' re making this public hearing
4 about the 30 days , I think we all agree
5 that we have to get control of this out
6 of control issue that we have in this
7 Town, and that ' s happening all over the
8 country . And I think we all agree on
9 Page Five , that yes , Airbnb ' s need some
10 control . And what I feel at this time
11 is if we can ' t control the 14 days , if
12 we don ' t have the mechanism to control
13 that , then we can ' t control the 30 . We
14 need to build our mechanism to control
15 it , and that ' s what we ' re doing with
16 this code change for tonight . And the
17 discussion will continue . I think we ' re
18 all in agreement that we have an extreme
19 hardship in this Town with Airbnb ' s .
20 And we have to work out a balance that
21 works , and we will continue the
22 discussion . But for now, we are working
23 towards code enforcement . We need to
24 hire . If anybody is interested in a
25 job , please apply, if you ' re qualified.
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 31
1 And this will help our code enforcement
2 and our attorney ' s office to pursue the
3 bad apples .
4 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Just one
5 last opportunity for anybody? Zoomland?
6 Or if they want to respond to me , and
7 certainly I ' m used to that? Board
8 members?
9 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : I ' d like to
10 make the motion to close the hearing .
11 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Second.
12 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in
13 favor?
14 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
15 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
16 COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye .
17 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
18 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
19 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye .
20
21 PUBLIC COMMENTS
22 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : That
23 concludes the business of the agenda .
24 I ' m going to invite anybody up that
25 would like to comment on any issue .
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 32
1 Please feel free .
2 JACK NORRIS : Thank you . Jack
3 Norris , 29745 Main Road. And I ' d like
4 to speak about in opposition to the
5 North Fork Villas Project . I ' m going to
6 talk about three areas . One , the
7 process as I ' ve seen it , and understood
8 it now. Community neighborhood
9 character , and then some economics on
10 the project . It appears this process
11 started sometime at mid ' 22 , with a
12 meeting with the Affordable Housing
13 Review Committee . Then went to the
14 Housing DHAC in June 13th of ' 22 . Came
15 back to the Affordable Housing Review
16 Committee in 12 /14 /22 . Apparently,
17 there were some Planning Department
18 meetings that were recommended . I don ' t
19 know if they occurred . They were on
20 septic credits and on a presubmission
21 site plan . The AHRC on June 30th
22 recommended to the Board that they
23 consider it for approval and rezoning .
24 The Town Board in August ' 22 had a
25 meeting . All this time myself and all
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 33
1 my resident neighbors that I ' m aware of
2 that I ' ve spoken to, had no knowledge of
3 this . Just none . And the first time we
4 realized what was happening was the
5 first page article in the Suffolk Times .
6 So it ' s troubling to me that somethings
7 been going on . Oh , and then in March,
8 there was a zoning amendment to remove
9 the 24 acre maximum on site development .
10 Number of units per site . So this
11 agent , the project development party ,
12 had put in a 24 unit plan in December .
13 The modification of the zoning ordinance
14 was done , and then they came back with a
15 36 unit plan . And meanwhile , we had no
16 knowledge of this . And so there ' s
17 something wrong with the process where
18 you can go one full year with all these
19 meetings that are closely held, and we
20 don ' t have any knowledge . Even on the
21 plans , they required to put all of our
22 names . Our names are now on the plans .
23 And in September, they were on the plans
24 for all of the neighbors abutting this
25 property . There ' s something should have
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 34
1 been done to involve us in the process ,
2 even knowing that we might be negative
3 about it . Still we should have had a
4 place to table during these discussions .
5 Particularly , when you go from 24 to
6 some 3 , 000 square feet per unit as a
7 maximum of 42 units on this site of 3 . 2
8 acres . We abut that . The whole length
9 of our property , from one end to the
10 other, is the same length as our
11 property . We go back to the Christmas
12 Tree Farm. It ' s one of the most
13 concentrated little woodland areas left
14 in hamlet . And two thirds of it ' s on
15 the other property and it ' s going to be
16 torn down . This property ' s developed
17 out to out . So our concern here is that
18 there was no process that allowed us to
19 be involved. We ' re not getting involved
20 until it ' s already being considered for
21 moving forward on a public hearing for
22 rezoning . We have seven single family
23 homes that abut this project . one
24 residential office district , which is
25 Low Density . That ' s where the flower
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 35
1 shop is . Agricultural conservative ,
2 where the Christmas Tree Farm is . And
3 that ' s its environment that you ' re
4 considering placing 36 units . I ' ve gone
5 back through the Hamlet study . Draft --
6 transfer ordinance . There ' s many
7 references to one unit per 10 , 000 square
8 feet of site . That ' s not being honored
9 here . The Hamlet study recommended that
10 that be the standard for affordable
11 housing in the Hamlet zone . The Halo
12 Zone is not shown on the zoning map .
13 When we came here , we searched out the
14 zoning surrounding our property, which
15 is a rational thing to do . You cannot
16 connect the Halo concept and the
17 possibility that any other use could be
18 put , really unrestricted, as long as it
19 was up to the judgment of the Board to
20 rezone the property within the Halo
21 Zone . And it encouraged high density .
22 So we think you should review the
23 process to have a better way of having
24 residents that are affected by property
25 changes to be involved in the process .
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 36
1 The community character of the zoning
2 that ' s there now is Low Density
3 Residential . There are businesses in
4 converted housing . They still have a
5 residential appearance on the main road .
6 This whole character is diversity of
7 housing style , very well kept ,
8 beautifully manicured lawns as you go
9 down the main road . And when you talk
10 about the project in North Fork Villas ,
11 you ' re going to high density
12 residential , high percentage ground
13 coverage . 70 , 000 square feet plus of
14 the site . 140 , 000 square foot site is
15 going to be impervious surfaces .
16 There ' s no provision for stormwater
17 retention that I could see on it . It ' s
18 out to out development . It has a
19 sterility of design . It ' s stark white
20 buildings . 80 feet long and 70 feet
21 long, two-story ' s . I remind myself of
22 the proposal several years ago to put a
23 new 5 , 000 square foot building in the
24 center of town . And that was considered
25 by the communities a big box . And there
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 37
1 was an uproar about it . And it was just
2 droned out . It was defeated soundly .
3 Well , here you have 30 , 000 square feet
4 of building area in six buildings and
5 two storage buildings , and an office on
6 three acres of property . 30 , 000 square
7 feet . And people were upset about a
8 5 , 000 square foot building in the center
9 of Town . It ' s totally out of
10 proportion . You probably have , if you
11 use 1 . 25 people per bedroom as a
12 rational estimate of occupancy , you ' re
13 probably going to see easily north of
14 100 people next door . We ' re a family of
15 seven . My son-in-law, daughter-in-law,
16 myself , my wife and three lovely
17 grandchildren, and grandsons that are
18 growing . And then it ' s a very quiet
19 area, other than the noise of the road.
20 But as soon as you get in our backyard,
21 it ' s a quiet , protected area . I think
22 that ' s true for all of the homes in that
23 area . And all of a sudden there are
24 going to be over 100 people , 75 parking
25 spaces . Cars in and out on a single
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 38
1 access point on the main road between
2 the two highest congested intersections
3 on the main road. Depot Lane and Cox
4 Lane . They ' re the highest accident
5 record on the main road. How do you
6 have those uses coming out across our
7 neighbors? Across the street? They
8 won ' t be able to penetrate the highway
9 at all . This property was occupied by a
10 man who died several years ago . He
11 lived in an RV at the back of the
12 property . He ' s still there with algae
13 growing over it . When he died, I
14 believe it ' s his son, purchased the
15 property . The record price was
16 $250 , 000 . He was on the market for half
17 a day . He advertised at $275 , 000 . He
18 closed at $250 , 000 . Immediately, we
19 started hearing rumors about he ' s going
20 to try to get commercial zoning . it
21 never crossed my mind about higher
22 density residential , but we were
23 prepared to politically and legally
24 fight an effort by him to get a
25 speculative return on his $250 , 000 . He
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 39
1 was asking a million dollars plus for
2 this property . Now I find out the whole
3 time there ' s been this affordable
4 housing, Halo Zone approach on this
5 property, which is going to cause him to
6 get a speculative profit . It ' s going to
7 push up the price per unit . It causes
8 them to have more units . Want more
9 units . And you have a project that at
10 the great rents that are shown , that are
11 permitted right now in this zone , you
12 cannot with today ' s building costs and
13 that high land cost , end up with a
14 project that is financially feasible .
15 There will be a draw on the fund. There
16 will be a request for , they say, private
17 investment , but there will be a need to
18 get support . I think you all know that .
19 We don ' t think it ' s the right location .
20 We just don ' t see how it can be made to
21 work without that kind of support . So
22 in summary, having over 100 people as
23 your immediate next door neighbor , all
24 of a sudden -- think about that nice
25 lady that was talking about the party in
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 40
1 her backyard . There ' s 100 plus people
2 just over our fence , for when it or our
3 property, the others . It will affect us
4 immensely . It will affect the people
5 across the street immensely . it Will
6 affect the people that are on the other
7 side on Depot Lane . And we just don ' t
8 understand how it makes any sense to do
9 it . And if you ' ve been looking at
10 10 , 000 square foot per unit standard, it
11 seemed to be coming forth in the
12 Comprehensive Plan and the -- in the
13 Hamlet study , that would be what , the 14
14 units at most . And even that is going
15 to be a problem because of the highway .
16 So we would ask you to please consider
17 not putting this forward to public
18 hearing . And if it does , to turn it
19 down . Thank you for the time .
20 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank
21 you . I invite anybody that would like
22 to speak?
23 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Can I
24 just make a comment on his comments? I
25 hear you, and as you were speaking, I ' m
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 41
1 thinking of the process . The process
2 that we have is the first time we ' re
3 going through the process . So it ' s a
4 learning thing . We all the meetings
5 that we did were published, but you ' re
6 not sitting there every day looking at
7 the Town website . So maybe one of the
8 ideas that we could consider is -- well ,
9 first of all , I want to say that there ' s
10 no application before us at this moment .
11 This process is like a presubmission to
12 decide if -- so there ' s no formal
13 application to change the zone right
14 now. This process that we developed is
15 to consider if the Town would consider
16 an application . And I think maybe when
17 we start the process , we can treat it as
18 we do an application, and have the
19 applicant notify the neighbors , like we
20 do for public hearing . So that might be
21 something that I can discuss with the
22 rest of the group, and we can maybe
23 implement that into our new process . So
24 thank you for your comments on there .
25 MARGARET SMITH : Hi . My name is
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 42
1 Margaret Rita Smith . I live on 29330
2 Main Road, Cutchogue . And I ' m here to
3 express my reservations concerning the
4 current proposal to construct 36
5 affordable rental units at 29675 Main
6 Road, Cutchogue . I acknowledge the
7 pressing need for affordable housing .
8 Particularly for individuals who have
9 encountered financial hardships due to
10 various circumstances . I am empathetic
11 towards those who have been compelled to
12 relinquish their homes and are grappling
13 with the escalating rental prices . I
14 have friends in this situation , and it
15 distresses me deeply, as it appears that
16 the root cause of this predicament is
17 primarily driven by greed. Despite the
18 years of dedicated hard work that these
19 individuals have invested. That being
20 said, I must assert that the current
21 proposal strikes me as ill conceived and
22 somewhat disrespectful to those in
23 search of a secure , serene , respectful
24 community to call home . Every
25 individual , regardless of their economic
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 43
1 stature , deserves a measure of privacy
2 and a space where they can foster a
3 sense of belonging . Over the past five
4 years , our current village has undergone
5 considerable expansion . we have
6 assimilated the substantial influx of
7 residents stemming from the construction
8 of 124 housing units on a 46 acre parcel
9 situated squarely within the heart of
10 our town . While I am not privy to the
11 exact count of residents and staff
12 occupying this location, it would be
13 reasonable to estimate a daily presence
14 of around 300 individuals . With each
15 unit equipped with two parking spaces ,
16 the property accommodates approximately
17 248 vehicles . This growth, along with
18 the pandemic and work from home option,
19 and new winery across from King Kullen,
20 all have participated in a more upsurge
21 in traffic along Main Road. Leading to
22 congestion and a discernible escalation
23 in noise pollution . Negotiating a left
24 turn along this route now requires an
25 abundance of time , patience and
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 44
1 resourcefulness . Placing individuals
2 grappling with financial burdens in
3 closely clustered small rental units
4 where residents traveling in and out at
5 all hours of the day, night to work,
6 school , shopping, presents a scenario
7 fraught with potential challenges . This
8 proposition strikes starkly contrasts
9 with the prevailing essence of our
10 community . I firmly advocate for a
11 housing strategy that emphasizes
12 homeownership, featuring fewer units per
13 property . As aptly stated by Sarah
14 Nappa in the Suffolk Times , 20 units
15 potentially housing 80 to 100
16 individuals , that is a lot .
17 Furthermore , I am of the opinion that
18 determining the number of units should
19 not solely hinge on the existing
20 population given the recent surge in
21 residents within the Halo Zone . Our
22 village charming though it may be , lacks
23 walking access to essential amenities ,
24 such as public schools , a train station
25 or a reliable bus service in the
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 45
1 immediate proximity . many of us who
2 reside here , both long standing locals
3 and newcomers alike , have sought refuge
4 in Cutchogue to escape the encumbrance
5 of high density communities , and to
6 relinquish a more tranquil way of life .
7 Cutchogue has undergone notable
8 developments in recent years . The
9 cumulative impact of which has uttered
10 in substantial alterations to our
11 environment . It is my concern , my
12 sincere appeal that you reconsider this
13 plan for it fails to align in any
14 discernible manner with the character
15 that defines our community . In
16 conclusion, I urge the Town to
17 contemplate the ramifications of the
18 proposed affordable housing project ,
19 rental housing project , on this current
20 form. Our hamlet deserves better and
21 remain hopeful that you will make a
22 decision that preserves the uniqueness
23 and harmony that our community holds
24 dear . Thank you for your attention and
25 consideration .
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 46
1 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank
2 you .
3 COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: I ' d just
4 like to make a clarification . The quote
5 was taken out of context of what I said
6 about 20 units of attainable housing .
7 Potentially, 80 new members , new
8 residents of a Hamlet . We were
9 discussing the Hamlet of Orient . Not
10 Cutchogue , which has probably the second
11 or third largest population in Southold
12 Town .
13 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else
14 would like to address the Town Board?
15 ALEXIS MAIDA: Hi . I ' m Alexis
16 Maida . I am the daughter of Jack
17 Norris . I live at 29745 Main Road. So
18 my property is , you know, along the
19 whole side of this property under
20 discussion . I have three young sons ,
21 six , four , and two . And we purchased
22 the property in 2015 . Primarily for the
23 fact that it is worlds away from the
24 City that we moved from, from New York
25 City, to live out here , in a quiet
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 47
1 residential area . And also , we always
2 had our eyes on that property knowing
3 that it was , you know, potentially going
4 to be available . It came available for
5 half a day . It was then sold. Keeping
6 our eyes on what it could potentially
7 become with worries that it might become
8 something undesirable for our family , as
9 we raise our kids and then proceeded to
10 expand our own path . My parents moved
11 in with us . Basically, we were looking
12 to keep the community that we desired to
13 build into, to live in and have the
14 quiet experience that we can have , even
15 though we ' re on Main Road, but have that
16 preserved residential aspect of why we
17 purchased the property in the first
18 place , and knew that that was a
19 residential property, and hoping that it
20 would always remain so . Beyond that ,
21 and all of the concerns that my father
22 has already expressed that I think are
23 fact and valid things to consider as a
24 Board. I also have just questions and
25 -- and wondering ' s of how you ' re
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 48
1 approaching the affordable housing
2 aspect of . We all agree and understand
3 that the North Fork has a need, and I
4 understand that it ' s hard to find the
5 perfect property or the perfect place to
6 try to put these projects . But I think
7 that this unique property is not best
8 suited for the concerns of what you ' re
9 looking to achieve as far as density and
10 space , and also the avenue -- the road
11 and the traffic that it ' s going to
12 bring . I do understand that there was a
13 desire to have it in the Hamlet . And
14 likely perhaps for just access to
15 amenities or transportation and whatnot .
16 But I do want to consider that these are
17 also being proposed as rental properties
18 as opposed to a ladder for people to try
19 to get into home ownership or some way
20 of trying to get out of a situation of
21 being in affordable housing . But also
22 the Town of Cutchogue isn ' t -- there ' s
23 no amenities there to be used or had as
24 far as giving people access to things
25 that they may need . It ' s not an
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 49
1 affordable town to try to get your
2 groceries or get a reasonable meal or be
3 in the access of things that would best
4 suit citizens who are in an affordable
5 housing situation . So it versus another
6 property that has more space . I ' m just
7 trying to understand the desire of
8 trying to be in the Hamlet of Cutchogue
9 versus a property with more space . So
10 that they -- basically it ' s not building
11 into this high density situation . And
12 if it ' s because the Town of Cutchogue is
13 there or access to the Halo , I ' m not
14 understanding how that is serving this
15 target demographic of what would be
16 potentially looking to try to move into
17 these rental homes . And so I ' m just
18 proposing the question and also thought
19 process of the motivation for this
20 property . And what you ' re looking to do
21 for the people that you ' re trying to
22 actually put into these rental homes .
23 And why they would need to be in the
24 Halo or in that specific zone . it
25 certainly -- I don ' t feel serves them in
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 50
1 terms of access points or having
2 amenities or things that will serve
3 them, as far as , accessibility and
4 affordability versus another property
5 that ' s better suited for a high density
6 larger property . And I think also that
7 the rental aspect of it is concerning as
8 well for us . In particular being
9 neighbors to it . In that renting
10 doesn ' t provide the aspect of home
11 ownership where you ' re caring for and
12 trying to help people to move into
13 property ownership . And so I think that
14 that also is one aspect of this that ' s
15 very concerning to us is . Just that
16 it ' s rentals versus some other form of
17 trying to get people into move towards
18 home ownership . Because that also is
19 not -- not something that they ' re going
20 to take pride in or have a reason to
21 care for and it could potentially turn
22 into -- something that is not a great
23 situation to have right next to our
24 property or in the Town of Cutchogue .
25 So I deeply, deeply ask for
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 51
1 reconsideration across the board just on
2 what are the motivations for the
3 affordable housing and how you ' re trying
4 to find -- ( inaudible ) 60 units perhaps
5 in Cutchogue . Like you have a quota of
6 some sort where you ' re trying to put a
7 certain quantity of affordable housing
8 in each hamlet . And just the reasoning
9 behind that . And then what ' s best for
10 the type of people that you ' re trying to
11 fill into those actual projects . And
12 then beyond that , this specific property
13 and what it will do to our community ,
14 and also the use that that property was
15 intended to have , and everyone in the
16 vicinity . And we have also petition
17 that we have 167 local neighbors who are
18 against this project . Particularly the
19 rezoning of it , which is the starting
20 point of conversation . So we can share
21 that with you . There ' s 160 signatures
22 at this time . And we can share that
23 with you and certainly open up more of
24 the conversation with those individuals
25 who are expressing concern, and having
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 52
1 yet had an opportunity to be able to
2 vocalize it , or understand the process
3 in which they have the opportunity to do
4 that .
5 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : So I
6 want to clarify a couple of things . The
7 Town does not own this property . So we
8 don ' t have a -- we ' re not the ones
9 proposing this . The applicant that ' s
10 proposing it , is the one that felt that
11 he -- their company wanted to somehow
12 try to build something that community
13 housing, affordable housing . So they ' re
14 coming to us with this project . And I
15 kind of disagree with some of the things
16 you ' re saying . The kinds of people that
17 you ' re going to get there . I don ' t --
18 one of them -- I live in an apartment a
19 few feet down from there . I live on the
20 Main Road in Cutchogue . And I walk to
21 the post office . I walk to King Kullen .
22 It is accessible . The bus stop is
23 across the street . So there ' s many
24 things that are accessible . Is it
25 perfect? No . I don ' t think any hamlet
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 53
1 or any one property will be perfect .
2 But the kinds of people that we ' re
3 trying to put there are hardworking
4 people that care . I take care of the
5 apartment that I ' m in . I take
6 satisfaction that I ' m coming home to a
7 clean, well kept apartment . And those
8 are the kinds of people that you and I
9 are talking about that live in this
10 community . That work in this community .
11 And that want to be able to stay in this
12 community . So do we all have to
13 compromise? Yes , we do . Is this the
14 perfect project? No . Are we going to
15 approve it? I don ' t know. We have
16 asked the proposed developer many tough
17 questions about financial ' s , at our last
18 Tuesday ' s meeting we wrapped it up . And
19 1 sent an e-mail to them, and I copied
20 the whole Board on that . And I did
21 speak to the attorney . And she said
22 that she got all the e-mail , and she
23 forwarded it to the developers , and
24 they ' re working on what they can answer .
25 So for now, we are not making a decision
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 54
1 until we get those financial answers .
2 Our concern is to make sure that any
3 proposal that goes anywhere in this Town
4 is sustainable , is helping the
5 community , is the people that are going
6 to be there are going to be part of the
7 community and want to be part of the
8 community . So that ' s where we ' re coming
9 with affordable housing plan . And
10 that ' s what we ' ve been working on with
11 the affordable housing plan . There ' s no
12 one easy answer , and there ' s no fix for
13 this . We can only make steps and work
14 towards the steps . With a lot of the
15 other questions that you asked, we don ' t
16 know because we ' re not that far into the
17 process . And we don ' t know if we ' re
18 going to approve this location for a
19 change of zone . If we do approve this
20 location for a change of zone , then it
21 has to go through the regular process of
22 Planning, Zoning, Building, the Health
23 Department , State approvals . it ' s still
24 going to have to go through all those
25 tough things , and it still will take a
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 55
1 long time . So I just want to explain a
2 couple -- make , clarify a few.
3 ALEXIS MAIDA: Great . And my
4 intention is never to be offensive to
5 trying to state anything about kinds of
6 people or whatnot . It ' s that there ' s
7 only one other example that we have on
8 the North Fork of this type of property
9 that ' s been put in Greenport , in terms
10 of --
11 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Of
12 which the Town had no control over . So
13 1 just want to --
14 ALEXIS MAIDA: And so that is our
15 only --
16 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : it
17 wasn ' t part of our program.
18 ALEXIS MAIDA: But it ' s an example
19 of a community of affordable housing
20 units that are rented . And so that ' s
21 the only example that we have to look
22 towards to see what could potentially be
23 the outcome .
24 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Not to
25 get too deep into the nitty-gritty of
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 56
1 this , but the incomes of the people that
2 are living in that Greenport
3 development , which as Jill has pointed
4 out , the Town was not involved in , is
5 50% to 60% the area median income . The
6 targeted demographic of this development
7 is 80% to 100% area median income .
8 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Which
9 actually kind of knocks me out .
10 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : You know,
11 and I think to put that into
12 perspective , we ' re talking about people
13 that are making $100 , 000 a year live in
14 there . These are middle class people .
15 This is middle class affordable housing .
16 1 think it ' s very easy to confuse
17 affordable housing with low income
18 housing . And even the concept of
19 needing to provide a ladder to these
20 people . Some people just want to rent .
21 ALEXIS MAIDA: And I understand
22 renting -- I ' m not downplaying rentals
23 in terms of , I rented for 20 years in
24 the City . So I understand the validity
25 of being a renter . So it is helpful to
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 57
1 understand the difference in the target
2 renter . It just seems that then you do
3 get more into the conversation of the
4 density of it . And it being in that
5 property and those people needing to be
6 specifically inside the Halo Zone . So
7 that ' s where it ' s just -- there ' s so
8 many factors that don ' t seem to align
9 right with the outcome that is -- and I
10 understand this isn ' t your outcome .
11 There ' s a project proposed to you . So
12 it ' s just looking at the validity of it
13 and how it measures up . And so, you
14 know --
15 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : But with
16 all due respect , as we look at
17 considering the validity , it ' s important
18 that the facts are on the table and not
19 conjecture .
20 ALEXIS MAIDA: Right .
21 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : And
22 comparing this to another project that
23 is strikingly different than this
24 project , it ' s not a fair comparison .
25 And I think as we look at this , we ' re
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 58
1 still very, very early in the process
2 here . You know, as Councilwoman Doherty
3 pointed out , there ' s no application
4 before us . They have come to the Town .
5 The Town has given them some feedback.
6 As I mentioned in our last meeting,
7 really the only thing we were looking at
8 at that time was location . And the
9 goals of , you know, locating affordable
10 community housing in the Halo Zone are
11 in the Comprehensive Plan . Are in kind
12 of core planning, good, you know, good
13 planning, smart planning . Where you can
14 create walkable downtowns . You know,
15 this is something as we looked at
16 another project recently , some of the
17 Board members felt very strongly that
18 one of the reasons to reject this
19 project was it was so far away from
20 these amenities . And in this particular
21 instance , as the Review Committee looked
22 at its proximity to the grocery store ,
23 restaurants , gas stations , all of these
24 things , it kind of , it checked off all
25 of those boxes . But it was only those
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 59
1 locational boxes . Now we ' re digging
2 into some financial ' s . we ' re digging
3 into getting feedback from the
4 community . Hearing the concerns , and
5 kind of figuring this thing out . I
6 think, you know, even as I was kind of
7 going back and forth with your husband
8 on this , there ' s the perception that
9 we ' re getting close to making a
10 decision . There ' s no application before
11 US . We ' re just starting to discuss it .
12 And I just want to assure you that we
13 are going to vet this fully . You know,
14 I ' ve asked for 30 years of , you know, an
15 operating budget because I agree with
16 your dad. As I look at the numbers , I ' m
17 not sure , you know, how they work .
18 Maybe they get us to build. But how in
19 20 years are we going to replace the
20 windows or the roof or the boiler?
21 These are all vital things we need to
22 consider . But I think it ' s important
23 that we ' re all looking at the same facts
24 and, you know, scare tactics are not
25 really very useful in the conversation
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 60
1 right now as we ' re making comparisons .
2 ALEXIS MAIDA: I think that that
3 may be also a result of not being in the
4 process from the beginning . So we don ' t
5 understand anything beyond what we ' ve
6 seen in an article in the Times , and
7 then one meeting last week, which was ,
8 you know, just basically listening, not
9 having any opportunity to dig into
10 details . And so you ' re also dealing
11 with the ramification of not having
12 awareness or an understanding of what
13 exactly this project entails , and all of
14 the details to try to consider it , you
15 know, substantially . And so, you know,
16 1 think that for our sake that we ' re
17 expressing everything as far as our
18 concerns go . We hope that you ' re taking
19 them very seriously and consider the
20 neighbors of this property to be valid
21 voices in terms of how deeply -- how
22 much it ' s going to change our lives and
23 what , you know, what we ' re experiencing .
24 Bordering it completely from beginning
25 to end . And so I just hope that that ' s
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 61
1 in consideration and we ' ll be looking
2 forward to be , you know, vocal and a
3 part of the process . And, you know,
4 we ' re definitely interested in the facts
5 and trying to be rational and
6 understanding . But we have a much more
7 personal aspect to this proposal than
8 most people . And, you know, what we
9 thought we were getting for the last
10 eight years in terms of our property .
11 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : So part
12 of the tough decisions that we as a
13 Board have to make , in any aspect of
14 this Town is , you know, what comes
15 before us has changed . You know, if
16 nothing changed, then you wouldn ' t need
17 us up here . And so what comes before us
18 has changed. And our job is to look at
19 the whole picture and take in every
20 comment , and consider them seriously ,
21 and we do . And we have to balance out
22 that change . You know, we want
23 affordable housing . Where do we put it?
24 We don ' t -- we don ' t -- if we had the
25 pick of our location, that would be
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 62
1 easy, you know, but we don ' t . So I
2 appreciate you coming and all of you
3 coming and spending your time here
4 because it is -- one thing that we
5 struggle with as a Board is , how do we
6 communicate with you? And we ' re always
7 looking for ways to improve . And, you
8 know, so this is part of the community
9 and part of helping us make the
10 decision . So we will , you know -- we
11 are listening to every word that ' s being
12 said.
13 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : And I
14 hope you see this engagement back and
15 forth as our willingness to take what
16 you ' re saying and consider it . And, you
17 know, this is , we ' re all part of the
18 same community .
19 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yeah .
20 And like I said, I live right there too .
21 It ' s going to affect me too .
22 ALEXIS MAIDA: Yeah, we definitely
23 do . And we value that . And so it just ,
24 you know, it -- I think we all got a
25 little bit concerned in terms of they
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 63
1 seeming like a very positive
2 conversation amongst the Board last
3 week. And that ' s where you might be
4 sensing some defensiveness , because it
5 seemed very positive in conversation .
6 And we ' re feeling like it ' s the worst
7 proposal we ' ve ever seen .
8 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : You know,
9 to be clear, there was some positivity
10 based on the location . You know, as we
11 look at , you know, the review by the
12 Affordable Housing Committee . You know,
13 these are objective measures that the
14 Board and Planning Department put
15 together, you know, based on location,
16 Halo Zone , proximity to different
17 things . And it kind of checked all of
18 those boxes , but that ' s just to kind of
19 get through the door . And if they
20 didn ' t get through the door , if they
21 scored low, I think the Town Board would
22 have said --
23 JACK NORRIS : Greg , I have to say
24 that that ' s one of the things I did look
25 at . I asked the ( inaudible ) the
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 64
1 checklist was . I looked at it . I
2 really believe that it is not objective .
3 1 think there are arbitrary weights
4 given to certain things on that
5 checklist that I would disagree with
6 entirely . And I could do them point by
7 point . And I don ' t think it deserved
8 that kind of a score . So I , you know,
9 particularly when you look at the
10 surroundings . I could argue that a site
11 down Depot Road on the Christmas Tree
12 Farm beyond the housing, the houses that
13 are already there , is a more appropriate
14 site . It ' s the same walking distance in
15 general , but it ' s not affecting anybody
16 immediately near it . If people want to
17 build up to it , they make that choice .
18 They don ' t have it imposed on them.
19 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Yeah .
20 And the only thing I ' m saying is , it ' s
21 just getting this applicant through the
22 door . It ' s just getting them to the
23 point where the Board is even willing to
24 consider an application . I think we
25 could have -- and, you know, I foresee
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 65
1 us telling applicants , you know what ,
2 you know, like that other applicant we
3 saw recently , that ultimately the Board
4 ended up voting it down . I believe that
5 applicant wouldn ' t have even made it to
6 the point that we got to because , you
7 know, whether we disagree or not on the
8 checklist , that applicant would have
9 rated far below what this application is
10 rated. And we can talk about that . And
11 1 think to Jill ' s point , this is a
12 process that we ' re setting up and
13 working on and trying to get going . So
14 any specific feedback you have on good
15 metrics , I would welcome . And I think,
16 you know, this is all part of a process
17 that we as a community are looking to
18 improve . You ' re clearly , you know, well
19 versed in this stuff . So I absolutely
20 would welcome your recommendations on
21 how we can improve this checklist to
22 make it better in the future . I think
23 Jill ' s suggestion of maybe triggering,
24 you know, notifications of adjacent
25 property owners earlier in the process ,
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 66
1 you know, when they go to the Review
2 Committee , could make a lot of sense .
3 And it ' s something that we could
4 consider . And this is , where , you know,
5 as painful as these sort of situations
6 can be and, you know, as contentious as
7 they can be , as long as we ' re working
8 toward the same goal , they ' re good.
9 Because they lead to better outcomes .
10 So anything we can do to improve , please
11 let us know.
12 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I would
13 just ask when people said to please
14 reconsider . I don ' t like that word only
15 because it makes it sound like we ' ve got
16 a mind, you know, got my mind made up
17 and you ' re asking me to sort of shift
18 gears and look in a different direction .
19 And I want to assure you , I ' m at
20 baseline zero right now. My arrow ' s not
21 pointed in any direction . That ' s what
22 the future will bring . That ' s what the
23 facts will bring . That ' s what the hard
24 questions that need to have answers to .
25 And I know it might have sounded like it
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 67
1 was a positive exchange two weeks ago,
2 but I think those developers , I think
3 they might disagree .
4 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : They
5 didn ' t think it was .
6 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : There
7 were some hard questions . But again , I
8 mean, I don ' t want to speak for
9 everybody , but look at me at baseline
10 zero . I got no arrow pointed in either
11 direction . Obviously I have a lot of
12 concerns without , you know, with regard
13 to everything . I would say at some
14 other day , I ' d like to have a community
15 discussion about the Town ' s reasoning
16 for higher density locations for
17 housing . And it wasn ' t about affordable
18 housing . It was about all sorts of
19 housing and the commercial centers .
20 Another discussion for another , what
21 they call the U . S . U . K. exchange .
22 Another discussion for another day . But
23 1 assure you that there ' s , it ' s a very,
24 very objective , almost at this point ,
25 somewhat sterile process , because a lot
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 68
1 of the picture hasn ' t even begun to be
2 painted.
3 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : And I ' d
4 like to say that tonight is proof that
5 this process is somewhat working, our
6 new process . Because the project that
7 Councilman Doroski talks about that we
8 turned down was way further ahead before
9 anybody found out . Before we found out
10 as a Board. It was way ahead. So the
11 process needs to be improved because
12 it ' s a new process . We ' re just -- this
13 is the first application we ' re
14 implementing the new process on and it
15 is working .
16 ALEXIS MAIDA: Thank you for your
17 time .
18 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank
19 you . Who else would like to address the
20 Town Board on this? Well , I ' m sorry .
21 No, not on this . On anything you ' d
22 like .
23 (No Response ) .
24 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I ' ll
25 make a motion to close .
AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 69
1 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Second.
2 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in
3 favor?
4 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
5 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
6 COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye .
7 COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
8 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye .
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11 (Whereupon, the meeting concluded
12 at this time . )
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AUGUST 29 , 2023 REGULAR MEETING 70
C E R T I F I C A T 1 0 N
2
3 1 , Jessica DiLallo , a Notary Public
4 for and within the State of New York, do
5 hereby certify :
6 THAT, the within transcript is a
7 true record of said Board Meeting .
8 1 further certify that I am not
9 related either by blood or marriage to
10 any of the parties to this action ; and
11 that I am in no way interested in the
12 outcome of this matter .
13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF , I have hereunto
14 set my hand this day,
15 September 10 , 2023 .
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18 ( Jes ica DiLallo )
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