HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-08/03/2023 Hearing TOWN OF SOUTHOLD ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK: STATE OF NEW YORK
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TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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Southold Town Hall &Zoom Webinar Video Conferencing
Southold, New York
August 3, 2023
10:02 A.M.
Board Members Present:
LESLIE KANES WEISMAN - Chairperson
PATRICIA ACAMPORA—Member (Absent)
ERIC DANTES— Member
ROBERT LEHNERT—Member
NICHOLAS PLANAMENTO— Member (Vice Chair)
KIM FUENTES—Board Assistant
JULIE MCGIVNEY-Town Attorney
ELIZABETH SAKARELLOS—Senior Office Assistant
DONNA WESTERMANN —Office Assistant
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August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
INDEX OF HEARINGS
Hearing: Page
Pantelis and Dorothy Scoufaras#7797 4-6
Edna J. Acquaviva, Boni D. Fash,Vincent J. Quatroche, Jr.#7805 7 - 10
Chanet Tisdel #7806 10 - 14
Michele Sasso and Jaqueline Jones#7807 14- 17
Megan Baron, Cottage#15 Breezey Shores#7810 17-19
RQA PROPERTIES, LLC#7800(DECISION) 20- 21
Thomas and Kathleen Burke#7811SE 21-29
Agustin and Melissa Romp#7812 29 - 31
Lawrence C. and Jeanne M. Provenzano#7813 31 -40
9450 Main Bayview LLC/Daniel Marra #7804 41 - 56
Mary Kathleen Martin and Philippe Vaillancourt#7815 57-61
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Good morning everyone and welcome to the Meeting of the
Zoning Board of Appeals. Please rise and join me for the Pledge of Allegiance. The first matter
on the Agenda is resolutions the State Environmental Quality Review. Resolution declaring
applications that are setback/dimensional/lot waiver/accessory apartment/bed and breakfast
requests as Type II Actions and not subject to environmental review pursuant to State
Environmental Quality Review (SEAR) 6 NYCRR part 617.5c including the following : Scoufaras,
Acquaviva and Quatroche, Tisdel, Sasso and Jones, Megan Barron, Breezey Shores, Thomas
and Kathleen Burke, Agustin and Melissa Romo, Provenzano, 9450 Main Bayview LLC/Daniel
Marra #7804 and finally Vaillancourt so moved. Is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES :Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. We have a resolution before us to close the hearing on RQA
Properties, LLC#7800 so moved. Is there a second?
MEMBER DANTES : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. We have a determination you know what, because I want to
start these hearings on time I'm going to move these two decisions to the end of the meeting
so that we can commence with the first hearing and get going. Is that alright with everybody?
Okay I'm just going to move the agenda around then.
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
HEARING#7797—PANTELIS and DOROTHY SCOUFARAS
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The first application before the Board is for Pantelis and Dorothy
Scoufaras #7797. This is a request for a variance from Article III Section 280-15 and the
Building Inspector's January 23, 2023 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a
permit to construct a raised patio with gable roof attached to a single family dwelling which
will place the existing accessory garage in a non-permitted side yard at 1) accessory garage
located in other than the code permitted rear yard located at 305 Ole Jule Lane in Mattituck.
Would you state your name for the record please.
ANDREA TSOUKALAS KURDO : Good morning Madam Chairwoman, Members of the Board my
name is Andrea Tsoukalas Kurdo. I'm with the firm of (inaudible) with offices at 333
(inaudible) Uniondale, New York on behalf of the applicants Peter and Dorothy Scoufaras. As
you mentioned this is an application for an area variance. My client seeks to construct a
raised patio with a gabled roof in the rear yard of the premises. A variance is required to
maintained the existing garage in its current location because the proposed patio extends the
rear of the house 7 feet east which places the garage partially in the side yard. As you know
all accessory structures must be located in a rear yard. I do have an exhibit packet that I do
like to submit, applicant's Exhibit A.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Just so you and your clients are aware, the Zoning Board inspects
personally each Member separately every property that comes before the Board prior to a
hearing so we've all been there and have seen the property and so on. We have to look at
character of the neighborhood so we drive around to see what else is there as well. Thank
you.
ANDREA TSOUKALAS KURDO : A little bit of background, the premises is located on the east
side of Ole Jule Lane 148 feet south of New Suffolk Ave. It has a rectangular shape 190 X 225
feet with a 190 feet of frontage on Ole Jule Lane situated in the towns residence 80 zoning
district and has a lot area of 42,750 sq. ft. and it's currently improved with a single family
residence, garage, driveway, raised rear patio and an in-ground. A little bit of history
regarding the parcel, a C.O. was issued for the residence in 2002, that was for a one family
dwelling with covered front porch and attached two car garage. A C.O. was then issued for an
alteration to the residence in 2008 converting the garage space to living space. The C.O. for
the pool was issued in 2011 and the C.O. for the accessory two car garage which is such
(inaudible) this application was issued in 2008 and this Board granted a variance for that
garage with respect to height and floor area. The existing garage has not been altered since
2008. My clients purchased the premises two years ago and seek to make this minor
improvements so they can enjoy their back yard. The proposed patio will provide much
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August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
needed shade and will also allow the family to eat outside when it's raining. They did speak to
their two adjacent owners sorry neighbor the two owners to the right and left of them, lots
14.1 the.Ludlow residence and 14.3 the Perrina residence and they have no objection to the
application. As you could see from the exhibit packet the aerial of the exhibit packet depicts
the dense screening around the perimeter of the house. I've also provided photographs of the
existing garage and house as well as the existing patio. The proposed covered patio will be in
a relatively the same location as the raised patio. (inaudible) in the exhibit packet you can see
it's basically the same location, the existing patio because it doesn't have a roof on it does not
trigger the variance. With respect to the area variance standards an undesirable change will
not be produced in the character of the neighborhood if the requested variance is granted.
The accessory garage will remain in its current location so there will be no visible change with
respect to location. Also the proposed patio will not be visible to pedestrians on the street
cause it's in the rear yard. Also as noted earlier there are existing mature trees and vegetation
that create a natural barrier between the subject premises and the adjacent property owners.
There's also pictures that show screening with the adjacent property owner. The requested
relief is not substantial, most of the.existing garage will still be locate within the rear yard of
the premises. Most of the patio actually lines up with the garage, only a small portion of that
is 7 feet by 19 feet 8 inches goes beyond the existing garage. It's about 140 sq. ft. you can see
the little jet out that comes out that's the only portion that requires that creates the extends
the rear of the premises. The variance will not have an adverse effect or impact on the
physical or environmental conditions of the neighborhood. Again as I mentioned the propose
patio is going to serve for a shaded area for entertaining and the owner's personal use.
There's an existing pool in the rear yard, there's no covered cabana or portico to provide
cover from the elements. The alleged difficulty although it is self-created (inaudible) the
owner is proposing the improvement the location of the garage and house,were established
prior to the applicant purchasing the premises so there's really no alternatives with respect to
placing the patio anywhere else. For these reason we request that the variance .for the rear
patio be granted.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay let's see if we have any questions, Liz I neglected to ask you if
there's anybody on Zoom. We'll wait till somebody is on Zoom before you explain how to
access the Board. Anything from you Eric?
SENIOR OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : We have someone on.
MEMBER DANTES : No it seems like a very benign variance request.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Nick
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : No questions.
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August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Rob
MEMBER LEHNERT : No it's purely technical.
CHAIRPERSON WIESMAN : Yea it's an annoying thing when maybe a third of the existing
garage is suddenly rendered non-conforming by virtue of a very benign addition that's
completely screened from view by everybody, landscaping, fencing.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : It has a C of 0.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea I know, we're trying to change that by the way.
SR. OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : Leslie excuse me, we do have someone on with us one
person but I don't know if they're here for this one but someone is listening in. I don't know if
you want me to go over the instructions.
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CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Why don't you it'll only take a second.
SENIOR OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS.: Thank you, good morning for those on Zoom if you
wish to make a comment on a particular application I ask that you please raise your hand and
1 will give you further instructions on how to speak. The person that is on with us I only have
initials so if you would like to identify yourself please do. If,you're using a phone press *9 and
then I will tell you what to do next. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you Liz. Is there anyone in the audience who wishes to
address this application? Okay motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is
there a second?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
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MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. We'll have a decision in two weeks.
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
HEARING#7805—EDNA J. ACQUAVIVA, BONI D. FASH,VINCENT J. QUATROCHE,JR.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Edna J. Acquaviva,
Boni D. Fash & Vincent J. Quatroche, Jr. #7805. This a request for a waiver of merger petition
under Article II Section 280-10A to unmerge land identified as SCTM No. 1000-33-4-69 which
has merged with SUM No. 1000-33-4-70 based on the Building Inspector's February 21, 2023
Notice of Disapproval which states that a non-conforming lot shall merge with an adjacent
conforming or non-conforming lot held in common ownership with the first lot at any time
after July 1, 1983 and that non-conforming lots shall merge until the total lot size conforms to
the current bulk schedule requirements (minimum 40,000 sq. ft. in the R-40 Residential
Zoning District) located at 130 Sunset Lane in Greenport. I'll turn this over to you Martin to
explain why we do have in our prior record a decision in 1996 by a different Board well the
Board of Appeals it was a denial for a waiver of merger so why don't we just start with that
and bring us up to date.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : Good morning, Martin Finnegan 13250 Main Rd. for the applicants. So
just to start from,the top, this is a request for a waiver of merger of lots 69 we call it which is
located at 130 Sunset Lane in Greenport from the adjacent improved parcel which is around
the corner it faces around the corner on Sutton Place which we'll call lot 70. These are both
recognized lots that have been in the Quatroche family since 1957 and 1968 respectfully.
They have always been and treated as separate parcels, there's photographs submitted for
the record which really demonstrates that lot 69 is just a vacant (inaudible). What happened
of course is that in 1995 when the merger law came to be the Quatroche's the parents found
themselves in this situation where the lots had merged by operation of law and they did come
before the Zoning Board in 1996 to request a waiver. At that time as you're aware we had a
very different code and so the option of waiver of merger based on the fact that the parcel
had not been removed (inaudible) or transferred to a third party or outside of the family was
not available to the Board and the application was denied. I think we can all agree that the
merger law has been unpopular since its birth and I know that and I hope that the Town
Board will eventually do away with it but they did in 2008 amend the code to address this
very situation where sort of unbeknownst to families properties that they had acquired for
the purposes of you know developing or passing on to other family members evaporated
because of merger. In my memo I have cited to the legislated history of that code amendment
in 2008 and I can I have a copy for the Board if you'd like it.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have them.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : The intent of that amendment was to create this as the principal criteria
for determining waiver of merger what happened with the property is it's still in the family it
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
hasn't been conveyed to a third party and here that's exactly what we have. It's almost as if
the code was amended at that time to address this very situation. My clients the children of
Edna and Vincent really had no idea that any of this had occurred until later on. Really after
their mother passed when they came to the Building Department and talked to Mike and it
was actually his suggestion that they try again here today and here we are. They learned
about this merger and the whole thing and that their mother had actually attempted to undo
it back in '96. So under the current criteria you know to start off as I said with 280-11A which
is just essentially the question of whether or not the property has ever left the family and is
not the property was owned by Mr. and Mrs. Quatroche and Vincent in 2000 it was conveyed
to their three children, Edna, Bonnie and Vincent Jr. and this title lies to this day. So it's clear
that the Board should find as to 280-11A that the property has not been transferred to an
unrelated person since they were effectively merged in 1995. Then we go on to sort of the
balancing criteria that you are to consider under 280-11B, is the parcel comparable in size. If
you look around and see in this neighborhood there are many similarly sized parcels that are
in that kind of (inaudible) .20 acres size. The fact the this is a criteria that was kind of part of
the earlier code and in that earlier 1996 decision the ZBA actually recognized that the lots in
the surrounding area that this parcel lot 69 would be consistent with their character and they
noted that the lots around them were all substandard in size some larger than the subject
parcel others smaller in size. So I do believe we can satisfy that criteria. As to it being
maintained as I mentioned previously this is a vacant parcel. If you look at the survey you can
see that this is not a situation where they kind of use it as the driveway, they've used it as it
has really always been even the grass looks different. It's,sort of mowed and maintained
differently than the rest of the parcels so there are no structures on it that have been shared
with lot 70 it has always just been its own vacant parcel and treated as such. (inaudible)
separate tax bills and all that as well. As to any type of adverse impact we would submit that
there is no perceivable adverse impacts we're just talking about unmerging the lots to have
them be legally recognized as what they have been and create (inaudible) what is just one
more buildable lot (inaudible). This is just as I've said I think the very intent of the Town
Board's amendment in 2008 was to (inaudible) this situation.The Quatroche's just bought this
property acquired them for their children and you know they did try to unmerge them in '96
and now the code allows them to do that. So our request is that you would reconsider that
determination and grant a waiver of merger (inaudible) review of the facts and (inaudible) of
the current code. I'm happy to address any questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Rob anything from you?
MEMBER LEHNERT : I have no questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Nick
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I have no questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric any questions from you?
MEMBER DANTES : What about the other standards in the waiver of merger? There is single
and separate search but then there's also several other standards after it. How do you is it
maintained as a separate lot? Do they do work on it?
MARTIN FINNEGAN : Yea I mean (inaudible) satisfied all three of the balancing criteria
maintained separately and no adverse impacts and it is conforming in size with other lots.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's just a flat grassy area that they've been mowing, probably for
years. It has some cyclone fencing up, there is a shed in the corner with hedgerow along the
Sunset Lane.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : The shed is actually on lot 70.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is it on somebody else's property?
MARTIN FINNEGAN : Their shed is
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : On the developed lot?
MARTIN FINNEGAN : Developed lot.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well you know the way we've been writing these now is that the
first step is do they qualify and clearly if it hasn't been transferred out of family ownership
they qualify and then you go to the next step which are all of the standards of lot size and so
on. Okay is there anybody on Zoom?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I was just going to ask Martin one question, can you build a
conforming house on the proposed separate lot?
MARTIN FINNEGAN : (inaudible) under a current code but yea absolutely.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO The lot is 75 feet wide so you got a front yard and rear yard
setbacks that are each 35, a depth of 105 so you believe
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You can put a small house on it but it would have to
MARTIN FINNEGAN : (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There aren't a lot of other houses on those small lots that are small
houses. I mean there is a certain scale in that whole area. Some of them have been developed
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to two story you know one and a half story but mostly small ranch houses. Anybody on Zoom
Liz? It doesn't look like it, anyone in the audience wishing to address the application? Alright
motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye
HEARING#7806—CHANET TISDEL
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Chanet Tisdel #7806.
This is a request for a variance from Article III Section 280-15 and the Building Inspector's
April 13, 2023 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a permit to construct an
accessory in-ground swimming pool at 1) located in other than the code permitted rear yard
located at 905 Ninth St. in Greenport. This is a pool in a front yard, the code requiring a rear
yard.
MIKE KIMACK : Good morning, Michael Kimack on behalf of the applicant Chanet Tisdel. As
you can see if you can look at the survey you got the two streets Ninth St. and Flint St. which
represents the two front yards primarily. The house is basically very close to the Ninth St.
property. It does meet the rear yard setback from Ninth St. but not the rear yard setback from
Flint St. If you've visited the site there is a fence pretty much all around what would be the
pool area essentially and-there's a railroad track across from Ninth St. and on the other side is,
a vacant lot which is lot number eight it's well vegetated. If you were on Flint St. there's a
whole range of trees, the pool would not be visible from Flint St. at all and with the fencing all
the way around it which is a closed fence you really wouldn't be able to see it. It's really
setback as much as it can be on the property in order to try and avoid any other issues that
may be there. It does meet the rear yard setback etc. like that, the only thing I'm before you
right now is the fact that the inevitability of having two fronts and the inevitability of having a
pool that requires a variance as such.
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August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I remember this prior.
MEMBER DANTES : Would you accept the condition that you have to put evergreen screening
for the pool bordering Flint St?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Ninth St.
MEMBER DANTES : I'm saying Flint cause that's the side the non-conforming.
MIKE KIMACK : There is take a look at the photos Eric, there is fairly a substantial amount of
screening at the present time. I know Ninth St. there's screening it's heavily screened. Flint St.
actually around the corner is heavily screened at the present time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well wait a minute, my notes indicate the possibility of a required
evergreen screening on
MIKE KIMACK : Flint St. or Ninth St?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There's very heavy screening already located on let me look and
see what I have here It's Flint
MIKE KIMACK : Yes
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's got all the Leyland Cypress
MIKE KIMACK : Yes
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : But the other one is pretty open, I mean you can really see into it
fairly well on Ninth St. I think that's what Eric was getting at.
MIKE KIMACK : Across the street basically
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's an undeveloped lot.
MIKE KIMACK : It's an undeveloped lot.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : People driving by and from you know different angles they'll
certainly going,to see
MIKE KIMACK : But looking at that particular perspective you can I mean in a sense the
fencing that they have right now blocks in and of itself the four foot closed fence closes the
pool effectively from Ninth St. all the way around.
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well that's true but if people were standing up and walking around
the pool they would be perfectly visible in their bathing suits or whatever. I mean it's not at
all uncommon that we simply say if a pool is going to be in a front yard even if it's
MIKE KIMACK : So you would be looking at some more plantings pretty much along Ninth St.
to the gravel driveway in that one area?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea just leave the opening of the driveway of course.
MIKE KIMACK : That would be helpful.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea we're not going to block the driveway but
MIKE KIMACK : So you're looking for the screening along that existing chain link fence
basically
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea
MIKE KIMACK : out of the driveway and then would there be
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We don't need it where the house is just along the portion up to
the driveway.
MIKE KIMACK : The driveway in that one area?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea, alright I don't have any further questions.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO Mike just as a reminder and I'm sure you know this already,
drywells where is the proposed drywell going?
MIKE KIMACK : It can't go Nick the septic area is in that little corner between the house and
the pool on the southeast corner of the property so the drywell will most likely go either on
the north side primarily or towards the fence.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So somewhere in the triangle of either Flint or Ninth St.
MIKE KIMACK : Yes and that would have to be on there in order to I'm not quite sure there is
a drawing I'm not quite sure if the fellow that's putting in the pool actually included it on his
(inaudible)
MEMBER DANTES : Why do they have a septic system, why not connect to Greenport sewer?
MIKE KIMACK : Eric I'm not quite sure if the line is in the street.
MEMBER DANTES : It says it on the survey that's why I'm asking.
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
MIKE KIMACK : Is it?
SR. OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : It looks like they are there's a water meter there isn't
there?
MIKE KIMACK : They're hooked up to the water meter, I think Eric's question was whether
they were hooked to the sewer line.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : By memory we had this discussion when they wanted the waiver of
merger. I don't think because the railroad tracks and everything I don't think
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don't think they're connected.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Exactly
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well that's not really relevant I just need to know where the
MIKE KIMACK : In any respect the sewer line comes out the back of the house away at the
present time so
MEMBER DANTES : Oh okay.
MIKE KIMACK : It would be quite a bit I'm looking at the drawing
MEMBER DANTES : Then how do you get the 20 foot from the septic system to the pool?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I was just going to ask that.
MIKE KIMACK : We do have that, it's a septic system in that back corner we got the 20 feet.
MEMBER DANTES : Oh so it's on the property line?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's not on the survey but it's
MEMBER PLANAMENTO :The pool is 30 feet (inaudible)
MIKE KIMACK : I was aware when I did that basically when we set the pool up primarily to
make sure that we had that
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Twenty foot distance.
MIKE KIMACK : We've got 30 feet from the property line to that I think it's within we're 20
feet away with the pool.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So you're saying the septic is right on the lot line?
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
MIKE KIMACK : It's pretty close to it in that little corner right there. I'm looking at the drawing
we'll have to put the drywell on obviously to satisfy the but I would not have a problem of
having a condition that it have a drywell as part of the variance along with the screening.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Pool equipment is located on here already.
MIKE KIMACK : Yea but it has a filter I'm not quite sure if it's
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, any other questions Board?Anybody on Zoom Liz who wants
to address the application? Anyone in the audience wanting to address the application? Okay
motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye motion carries.
HEARING#7807— MICHELE SASSO and JAQUELINE JONES
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Michele Sasso and
Jacqueline Jones. This is a request for variances from Article IV Section 280-18, Article XXIII
Section 280-124 and the Building Inspector's April 24, 2023 amended May 2, 2023 Notice of
Disapproval based on an application for a permit to construct alterations and additions to an
existing single family dwelling at 1) located less than the code required minimum front yard
property line setback of 35 feet, 2) located less than the code required minimum side yard
property line setback of 10 feet, 3) more than the code permitted maximum lot coverage of
20% located at 4525 South Harbor Rd. in Southold. Would you state your name for the record
please.
JOSEPH OLIVERI :Joseph Oliveri
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Good morning, so this is a proposed addition to a dwelling with a
front yard setback at 26 feet is that correct where the code requires a minimum of 35, a side
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yard setback at 8 feet where the code requires a 10 foot minimum and lot coverage of 21.8%
where the code permits a maximum of 20%. 1 think this is a second floor addition on a one
story single family dwelling. You are maintaining the existing front yard setback and actually
increasing one side yard from 14.3 feet to 15 feet. It's a very oddly shaped lot.
JOSEPH OLIVERI : That's what I'm here to talk to you about.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I figured you would.be, I'll hand it over to you now. I couldn't even
figure out I mean really who makes these lot lines up.
JOSEPH OLIVERI : Our plan was to come before the Board today in order to request an area
variance for a reconstruction of the existing residence. The Sasso family is intending to rebuild
the structure to continue the use and ownership as a multi-generational summer retreat for
the extended family as they have been the owners for several decades. The property is
located in an R-40 zone, the existing lot is not only undersized for the zone but also irregular
which poses a challenging site design. The existing house is showing signs of decay and age
and before the house is unusable and becomes a safety risk my clients want to go through
with reconstruction. The existing house was a mish mash of varying conditions built on and
added on over time. The current floor plan includes only two bedrooms and is a poor layout
for the intended use. Our initial design intent was to try and save as much of the existing
house as could be saved but upon further inspection we've come to realize that it is going to
require a complete rebuilt. However, we will keep the primary basement below grade
structural walls and expand the footprint from there. The new design allows for a four
bedroom, two bathroom residence with a kitchen and living area.To keep the footprint down
and to avoid further relief required we added a second floor open loft which will be used as a
bedroom. In terms of architectural expression in the fagade we decided on horizontal siding
mixed with vertical board and batten on the gable walls. In addition, some standing seemed
metal roofing was added over the covered front porch to give it some additional interest and
depth. Our team especially feels that this reconstructed residence will fit in more with the
fabric of the neighborhood. In terms of the actual dimensions and relief that we are
requesting I offer the following, the required front yard is 35.8 feet the existing house is at 26
feet and the new areas of expansion of the house is at 32.6 feet much closer to the required
35 feet. Important to note is that we are not increasing the front yard relief from the existing
but we're relieving the front yard depth. The minimum side yard is 10 feet, the existing
structure is at 14.2 minimum and the proposed will be reduced down to 8 feet so we're
asking for 2 feet of relief on the minimum side yard. The combined side yard minimum
requirement is 25 feet, the existing house is 28 and after the additions we will be at 23 which
again asks for 2 feet of relief. The lot coverage maximum allowed is 20% and after the
reconstruction we will be at 21.8% which is asking for 1.8% of relief or 146 sq. ft. The main
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
difficulty with this site is the irregularity of the property and the size of the land. Mainly we
are asking for 2 foot of side yard relief and about 150 sq. ft. of lot coverage. Mr. Sasso
engaged Garten Architects eighteen months ago to work on this proposed design and the
teamwork and dedication from all parties involved have brought this design together in such a
way that we all feel will be at least impactful and cause no detriment to the neighborhood. In
fact we know that this project will add property value to every property on the block. In
addition to the time spent on this design we have also applied for and been approved for a
new IA septic system which will serve this proposed four bedroom residence and we were not
required to get a variance to be able to make it fit. Finally, it is important to point out that the
neighbors are in support of the project and are hopeful that the work will get done and the
house renovated. In closing I would like to thank the Board for considering our project for
area variance and to allow the proposed reconstruction.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Thank you for your presentation, Eric questions?
MEMBER DANTES : No not at this time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Nick
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Not at this time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Rob
MEMBER LEHNERT : No I mean working with a bizarrely shaped lot.
JOSEPH OLIVERI : It could be,worse.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : How?
JOSEPH OLIVERI : We're talking about a family that's lived here for thirty years from
generation to generation, we want to obviously you can see the existing pictures what it looks
like it does not meet as you know fit in with the fabric of the neighborhood at all. The new
design I think is much more in character with Southold. Again you're looking at a family that
plans to stay here for generation after generation and really create a long lasting family
element.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :There's only really literally one corner that's at 8 feet.
JOSEPH OLIVERI : Such a small
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's tiny, what are you going to do (inaudible) for the corner?
MEMBER LEHNERT : It's minor at best.
August 3,2023 Regular Meeting
JOSEPH OLIVER[ : It's (inaudible)to ask for a little corner.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea really, it certainly is. Okay I don't have any questions, does
anyone in the audience that wants to address the application? Is there anybody on Zoom Liz?
Okay motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER DANTES : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye, we'll have a decision in two weeks at our next meeting.
HEARING#7810—MEGAN BARRON, COTTAGE#15 BREEZEY SHORES
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Megan Barron Cottage
#15 Breezey Shores #7810. This is a request for a variance from Article XXIII Section 280-123
and the Building Inspector's April 28, 2023 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a
permit to construct a dormer addition to an existing seasonal cottage at 1) a non-conforming
building containing a non-conforming use shall not be enlarged, reconstructed, structurally
altered or moved unless such building is changed to a conforming use located at #15 Breezey
Shores 65490 Main Rd. (adj. to Shelter Island Sound) in Greenport. Is there someone here to
represent the application?
MEGAN BARRON : Good morning my name is Megan Barron I'm the owner.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So we have a proposal from you through your Architect Frank
Uellendahl, have you got a copy of this letter? Yesterday we received a letter from a law firm
we believe representing the Marina the new owners of the Marina at Sage Basin, it's a letter
of objection and we wanted to make sure you have a copy of it. So it's part of our public
record and the Board will have to address that in the decision. I think it's important to enter
into the record that we have a lot of prior applications for Breezey Shores over many years in
which the Board did sort of a code interpretation because this is very unusual. Typically a
residence in a residential zone which is what this is would be considered a conforming use but
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
because there are multiple dwellings or cottages on one single property that's where it's
considered non-conforming because we're only allowed one dwelling per one lot. So it's a
very, very unique property and recognizing that these cottages have been in existence a long
time and were in need of some reasonable structural repairs and so on without enlarging
footprints necessarily. The Board determined that up to a three percent increase in the
overall either through ceiling height through volume, livable floor area no decks you know
that's against your C&R's on the property that this was reasonable. Basically this letter from
the attorneys indicate that they believe that the standards for use variance are required. The
Board looked at that a number of years ago and determined that that was not an applicable
standard given the uniqueness of why these are considered non-conforming and usually it has
to do with hardship with a single lot. Well we have multiple owners so it just simply became
unwieldly. Frank knows very well the three percent increase that we were referring to have
you talked to any of your neighbors in the other cottages about we know that the one
neighbor has the identical dormer already installed. So it's not changing your footprint in any
way
MEGAN BARRON : I have talked to them before I even proposed doing this and they said oh
you could put two up that would be great and I said no I'm good with one. So they are aware
they know what it would look like.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : This is very, very straightforward, Eric do you have any questions
on this? I just wanted to be aware that we do have this in the record and in our decision we're
going to have to acknowledge that and I think
MEGAN BARRON : It's personal because I have stood against him in Trustees hearing a little
revenge.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We can't personalize it but you can.
MEGAN BARRON : I'm like I'm not surprised.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything from you Rob?
MEMBER LEHNERT : I have nothing.
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CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Nick
MEMBER PLANAMENTO :.I have no questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric
MEMBER DANTES : No
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Liz anybody with their hands up? Anybody in the audience who
wants to address the application? Okay motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later
date.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye, the motion carries. We have four minutes to wait before we,
we can't open a hearing until the time it's posted because there might be somebody rushing
in at the last minute and say what do you mean that you already heard the decision I came
here to talk about it. So I'm going to do some Resolutions we'll get those done. Resolution for
the next Regular Meeting with Public Hearings to be held Thursday, September 7, 2023 at
9:00 AM, so moved.
MEMBER DANTES : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. Resolution to approve Minutes from the Special Meeting held
July 20, 2023 so moved.
MEMBER DANTES : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
.CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. Let's take a look at RQA Properties #7800, everybody
got a copy of the draft? Everybody read it, everybody gone through it carefully? Any
questions or comments or suggested edits?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Maybe just a recap for the audience?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Why don't you do that briefly so that it's part of the record that we
acknowledged what we (inaudible)
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : This is an application (inaudible) first page for a commercial use in a
residential zone at the corner of Main Rd. and basically Pequash Ave., Fleets Neck Rd. The
applicant wanted to legalize five (5) "as built" small sheds and temporary structures including
a very large tensile structure that was required by the Planning Board to be removed back in
2006. Prior to that the applicant had come to the Zoning Board of Appeals for relief to expand
the building_which was granted in 2005 to allow approximately twenty five percent increase
in the floor area of the principal building. The owner/applicant without the benefit of any
permits expanded the building to approximately sixty five percent I think or sixty seven
percent greater than what was allowed. I think the motion is to and actually during the public
hearing the applicant stated that they would remove all of the smaller sheds structures
however they were hoping to keep the larger tensile one which was conditioned to be
removed back in 2005 and 2006 by two different Boards and the motion is to grant relief as to
allow the "as built" masonry addition measuring 24 by 48 feet approximately, expansion to
the principal structure to remain. However the condition is that all the other tensile
structures, the shed buildings and the larger tensile that was to be removed originally are all
supposed to be removed before a building permit for the "as built" structure is granted. So I
guess I'll make the motion that we
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I just want to say one other thing, we did get comments from the
Planning Board on here and by virtue of the establishment of these structures not in
compliance with prior relief that was granted they've kind of messed up the parking situation.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Well one of the conditions of course on granting the relief for the
existing "as built" is that they have to go back to the Planning Board to
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well that's what I wanted to put into the record that we are
acknowledging their comments from Planning. They are no longer they're not in compliance
with the site plan approval either in addition to the ZBA's former determination. So in an
effort to legalize everything on here we're going to require them to get an updated site plan
approval to remedy the parking stalls and so on, on the site as well as remove what was
supposed to be removed because in granting the variance for enlarging the building the idea
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August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
was that all the small accessories would be eliminated and everything would be indoors. They
not only didn't do that but they enlarged it much bigger than what we even anticipated but
it's a thriving business so we are going to allow them to
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I would add that it's well screened (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's not really an adverse impact to anybody and we don't want to
be punitive but you know you gotta comply with on-site circulation. Alright any questions or
comments or anything else from anybody? You ready to vote, you want to make a motion.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I make a motion that we grant relief for the masonry addition to the
existing principal use "as built" and applied for with the conditions and there's six conditions
including the removal of all of the other structures. It's quite detailed and of course the
structures need to be removed prior to any "as built" building permit is issued therefore we
ensure that the site is cleaned.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : To deny the request to maintain the tent structure.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Exactly
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay I'll second it, all in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye, the motion carries.
HEARING#7811SE—THOMAS and KATHLEEN BURKE
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Thomas and Kathleen
Burke #7811SE. Applicants request a Special Exception under Article III Section 280-13B(13).
The applicant is owner of the subject property requesting authorization to establish an
accessory apartment in an existing accessory structure at 780 Deep Hole Drive in Mattituck.
Would you state your name for the record please.
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
THOMAS BURKE : Thomas Burke I'm the owner.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have a letter of consistency with the LWRP in our record, we
have a confirmation from the Building Department that the proposed livable floor area for the
accessory apartment is 401 sq. ft. which does conform to the code. We have a birth certificate
of your daughter indicating that the tenant will be your daughter, an affidavit of primary
residency that you both signed, two driver's licenses, voter registration, income taxes alright
we know you live there. The accessory garage has a C.O. I think that was just recently done
you just got that. There's no longer a date on C.O. or is there?
T. A. MCGIVNEY : The new one has to have a Certificate of three years prior to
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea you know what they changed the business of dates on
Certificates of Occupancy like forever back and forth. At first it was 2010 then it was like eight
years prior in other words the idea was originally of this was to say let's see if we can leverage
more housing units out of what's built already not to build new stuff. So there was a date by
which you know if you wanted to put it in a garage let's say the garage had to be there for a
certain number of years, they keep changing it Town Board keeps changing it and updating it
and now it's supposed to be for three years.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : The new law says it can be a minimum of 220 sq. ft. but theirs is 401 which
under the old one wouldn't have been appropriate.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes because it would have been 450 minimum. I'm just explaining
this to you it's not going to be a problem don't worry we'll figure this out but the bottom line
is, the old code required a minimum of 450 sq. ft. and a maximum of 750. They now changed
it lowered it to say 220 1 don't know who's living in 220 sq. ft. I mean even in my little house
my closet is bigger but that's what the Board did and it still goes up to 750. So now you're
conforming but on the other hand in terms of the date of your Certificate of Occupancy cause
it's a pretty new building your garage that doesn't conform to the how many years was it,
three?
T. A. MCGIVNEY : Three years.
MEMBER DANTES : When did they change the code?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Just recently, we looked at that they just recently.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : 5/23/23
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : 5/23
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
MEMBER DANTES : Was it recorded before he submitted the application?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : When did we get the
BOARD ASSISTANT : May 15th
MEMBER DANTES :That's when they voted.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :That's when they voted.
MEMBER DANTES : But then it has to be recorded.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The application was May 15th and when did they vote?
T. A. MCGIVNEY : Didn't we already put it into the code the new change?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's in the code now.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : It's in the code now as of what date though let me go back and see.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What we're trying to do is figure out if we have a loop hole. In
other words if you submitted your application before they voted on these changes then the
date of the C.O. is okay we'll have to give you a variance for the undersized apartment which
we can just roll into the decision we have the authority to do that and we've done it before
when somebody was five feet over or two feet under or whatever it's a minimum amount
really. We're just checking to see what leverage we have here.
MEMBER DANTES : I mean May 5th is his letters to Trustees, May 9th is when his paperwork is
notarized.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : I have the date of the Local Law the meeting but whether it got to them but
then when it went to the State.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's got to be codified by the State and then it can become
effective. So we need to know what Albany did. Well you know we can figure this all out after
I mean I don't because it's just a matter of how we have to write this in order to be within the
boundaries of what's legally required. So you submitted what was May what?
BOARD SECRETARY : May 15th was the submission of the application.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :The code change was effective
T. A. MCGIVNEY : May 23rd
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : May 23?
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August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
T. A. MCGIVNEY : Yea it's in the code already it's so the state accepted I don't know what date
they got it back from the state.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : But it was May 23rd so it would have to be after that, so you got
your application in under the old code.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Which would have been a denial.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No, no it would.have been an approval it would just have required
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : An extra variance because it was too small.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : For the undersize yes. Well we could approve the apartment but
grant relief for the undersized apartment.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : That would be the cleanest.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea I agree.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : That's the best (inaudible) C.O. for the garage.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What was on the old code, what was the date of the C.O? I don't
think there was one they just needed a C.O.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : Right
MEMBER DANTES : Why did they add that back in there.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don't a clue.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : To prevent from people from building (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : But why wouldn't they, I mean it doesn't make sense it's not
consistent logic in this particular case. Alright now we got it.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : We're adding a variance.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes, we have the template for that.
MEMBER DANTES : What did they say the square footage was?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : 401
MEMBER DANTES :'How did they get that cause I'm looking at the plans here and I'm counting
like 440 which is still a little light but
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well it's less of a variance.
MEMBER DANTES : I mean the way the dormers are shaped I don't know.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don't know exactly how Mike calculated that but that's what we
have we do have the Building Department confirmation.
MEMBER DANTES : How many square feet did you calculate it as?
THOMAS BURKE : Not counting the bathroom space as livable space.
MEMBER DANTES : Is that it?
THOMAS BURKE : Yes
MEMBER DANTES : Okay, what happens when you add the bathroom?
THOMAS BURKE : It's close to 440 1 believe.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : But bathrooms are not calculated as livable floor area. You know in
the beginning you just took the length and the width didn't care what rooms they were just
the outside dimensions and that's the square footage but that isn't the way to calculate that's
gross floor area but that's not livable floor area. Okay now we see why. Alright anything from
the Board at this point? Is there anybody on Zoom Liz? Anybody in the audience please come
forward and state your name.
PAUL CONNER : My name is Paul Connor. I'd like to read a brief statement and it's really not
comfortable.opposing the neighbors but we feel compelled to do so. So my name is Paul
Connor and my wife and I have lived at 830 Deep Hole Drive which is next to the Burke
property. So our property is immediately next to the Burke property and we have lived at this
address for twenty two plus years and we are here today to voice our opposition to the
establishment of an auxiliary apartment at the Burke property as we believe that such a
requirement especially in a separate building from the prime residence is not in character
with the neighborhood. Our neighborhood consists of single family homes with single home
structures some with attached single story garages. Granting a variance especially in a
separate building will have the potential to adversely change the character of our
neighborhood and negatively affect property values and for these reasons we oppose this
matter. Thank you for your time and attention.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You're welcome thank you. Anything else from anyone? Come
forward please.
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August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
PETER HACK : Okay if I approach, there's three packets there for the Board to follow along.
Good morning my name is Pete Hack and I reside at 700 Deep Hole Drive which is on the
other side of the Burke family (inaudible). As a (inaudible) combat disabled veteran this issue
concerns me enough that I took time off my job losing money to be here today to address this
and voice my objection to the project. This project I understand town code was or existing
structures, the structure was built for the expressed purpose an apartment. As you can see
the footings were poured, is something funny may I speak? Both footings were poured you
can see the back was framed for a door. This is not the first time the Burkes have done this, as
you can see the separate meters were done. If there was a C.O. issued I don't know how it
was done because there's no downspouts, there's no gutters causing flooding and damaging
my property you can see that in the photos the second page. So if there was a C.O. issued I
don't know how that was done. Over lighting, the garage at night as you can see I have
juvenile children and it completely lights up the whole side of the house the bedroom causing
disruption to sleep patterns to a disabled child. If you continue along you'll see the agendas
that were continued in the past where this was done on their prior property at 1570 Bray Ave.
The exact same structure was built on the perimeter property with an accessory apartment
above so they're well familiar with what they're doing. As the.work was performed some of
the work was performed without permits, you'll see the letter from Mr. Goodwin on the back
page. (inaudible) permit was done without permission. Contractors blocked the driveway,
contractors trespassed you can see numerous photos. I tried addressing Mr. Burke he didn't
want to hear it so at this point you know we're concerned. It drops the character of the
neighborhood there's no other garages built out front with a residence above it. It does say
it's for his daughter but his daughter is employed by the city and owns a condo in Jackson
Heights so I don't understand how he expects her to be staying out here. He's been dishonest
with me from the beginning of the project so I don't expect his honesty to improve. At this
point I would like to register my objections and if you need any other further documentation
for some of this work that's been done, the damage that's been caused to my property please
let me know I'd be happy to (inaudible). Thank you for your time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you. Anything else, would you like to make a comments on
any of that?
THOMAS BURKE : (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anyone else in the audience?Anything else from the Board?
T. A. MCGIVNEY : This was filed in June so the application is completely before the Local Law
so then did you go over I'm not sure if you established all the things, one is going to be for
him and principle residence you do have to be steps making sure it's going to be
August 3, 2.023 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes, if you want me to review it again I'll do it.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : I just want to make sure because we have to go through all the checklist for
that being
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So this was these are the standards under which your application
was submitted. The existing dwelling shall occupy one of the dwelling units as the owner's
principle residence I think that was established by documents that were submitted. Secondly,
the existing one family dwelling shall contain not less than no, no wait a minute that's for the
that's not for the accessory this is accessory. The only thing that's crossed out here is, the
owner of the premise shall occupy
T. A. MCGIVNEY : then the lease
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We do have a lease submitted don't we? We need to have a lease
submitted signed by the daughter. We do have a signed and undated lease to the daughter
Megan Burke that's in our file. The required documentation for conforming to the code has
been submitted other than the concern about the size and about the date of the C.O. that
was what was the (inaudible).,So we'll have to grapple with that. I think the neighbors for
your testimony your concern also that's why we have these public hearings. Everyone
deserves their time in court and it's appropriate that everyone is able to participate and
providing the ZBA with information that's helpful in making decisions. Typically just so you are
aware this is a Special Exception Permit, it's not really a variance. It might require a variance
for the size depending on how we manage to handle that but with Special Exception Permits
basically what that means is they are permitted by law. However they need to meet certain
standards and that's why they become before the ZBA in order to see-if they do. That's why
we require the submission of certain documents which we've just entered into the record. It's
sort of we do still have lots of leverage but the point there are some kinds of decisions the
Zoning Board makes that more or less if you check off all the boxes it's assumed that you have
the right to do this. So we're looking at boxes that are checked and boxes that area little
murky at the moment. I don't know the exact relevance I mean Thomas Burke and Kathleen
Burke are now have now established a life estate to your daughter right.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : The daughter has granted you a life estate. The property is in your
daughter's name and she's granted you,a life estate.
THOMAS BURKE : She's in the deed but we have life
T. A. MCGIVNEY : You have a life estate?
THOMAS BURKE : Yes, actually we own it.
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August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
T. A. BURKE : I guess if she's using the principle they're staying in the principle residence then
and she's still I don't think she needs a lease.
MEMBER LEHNERT : How can he be the owner and the tenant?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Say that again.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : I'm saying you can't be the owner and the tenant.
THOMAS BURKE :Till we pass.
MEMBER DANTES : She grants sole use control benefit and income of the above property
described
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Until death, I think that's okay.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Okay just a question.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : When things were going so easily.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : But then how does she qualify to live
T. A. MCGIVNEY : As a tenant?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Yea she needs well I guess no you don't have to meet the standard
cause it's a family member the affordable housing registry is what I was getting at.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All that is required basically is that principle occupancy by the
property owner and that the occupant of the rental unit whichever it is, it can be the house or
it can be the apartment it doesn't matter. That individual be either a direct relative of the
property owner or someone who is on or qualifies to be on the affordable housing registry,
those are the standards. It's a little unorthodox to have it this way but I don't believe it's
disqualifying.
MEMBER LEHNERT : They live there that I know that's not a question.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : Yea all rights to it until they pass.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea so okay but thank you anyway for bringing it up. The more we
have on the record the better.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : Anything else we need to address for the record?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don't know, is there anything else you'd like to say or your wife?
Anybody on Zoom Liz? Sure we'll accept it as part of the record. Okay are we ready to close? I
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
don't see any reason to hold it open, I think we have everything we need. Alright motion to
close the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER DANTES : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye
HEARING #7812—AGUSTIN and MELISSA ROMO
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Agustin and Melissa
Romo #7812. This is a request for a variance from Article XXIII Section 280-124 and the
Building Inspector's April 25, 2023 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a permit
to construct a deck addition with a canopy attached to an existing single family dwelling at 1)
located less than the code required minimum secondary front yard property line setback of
25 feet located at 1820 Wells Ave. in Southold. Please state your name.
PABLO DEMIGUEL IGLESIAS : My name is Pablo DeMiguel Architect helping the Romos built
their home. You can see on the plans the existing home that we've been renovating this year
that rectangle and the footprint hasn't changed. It is a condition right now that is encroaching
the new secondary setback requirement. As part of the renovation we are proposing the first
floor is about a foot and a half above the existing pool deck so we are proposing to (inaudible)
access on the living area to the pool deck. You have a new pool deck area and it cannot be
above it. Part of that is going to encroaching into that required setback. So we are seeking
relief for that and requirement. At the moment there is an existing fence along the pool deck.
The new deck extension won't be visible from the street, the canopy only a portion of this will
be visible.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We've all been out to the property and inspected the project and
did notice of course that the rear yard is completely screened with mature evergreens and
some fencing. You're not,going to see it from the street, it's not going to have any adverse
impact. It's not affecting lot coverage it's a pergola it's a sun screen you know. I think your
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
application said it would be about I think I looked at the elevation too, 2 foot 6 inches above
the fence so there's not really going to be the impact on the only neighbor that could have
any kind of an impact. Anything from you Eric?
MEMBER DANTES : This house is staying there aren't any changes to it and you're building a
pergola?
PABLO DEMIGUEL INGLESIAS : The house is staying yea and the fence is staying. The only
thing that we're adding is that (inaudible)there is an existing deck for the pool.
MEMBER DANTES : Then why are they sending you for gross floor area for a deck and a
pergola?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No it's just a setback a secondary front yard setback, 13 foot 4
inches where the code requires a minimum of 25 feet. You jumped the gun the wrong
application. ,
MEMBER LEHNERT :They have two front yards it's just a secondary setback.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : They changed the code recently so that a secondary front yard is
you know allowed to have a smaller setback than a primary front yard. Prior to that it was
both front yards had to have the same 35 foot setback. Anything else from the Board,
questions comments from you Nick?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : My only question is, why couldn't you conform to the 25 foot
setback just start the pergola stepped in back in the corner of the house?
PABLO DEMIGUEL IGLESIAS : We do but the living area actually is at that corner of the house
with access to the pool (inaudible).
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Right and you have the proposed doorways. You have doorways in
the elevation illustrating from I'm assuming the living space to the pool deck but my question
is, why can't you just start the pergola on the outside where the first column is or
approximately another 10 feet?
PABLO DEMIGUEL IGLESIAS : Yea we could but that's why we are here to ask you for
permission to just cover the (inaudible).
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So this fs a design choice?
PABLO DEMIGUEL IGLESIAS : Design choice.
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : And are you able to design it that it would function the same way?
To allow access you can design and make it comply.
PABLO DEMIGUEL IGLESIAS : (inaudible) stepping down to the pool deck and the other part is
the pergola (inaudible) wouldn't be (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : But it's still going to be a setback variance for the deck.
MEMBER LEHNERT : The house already violates the setback.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : The house is right against the road.
MEMBER LEHNERT : He's working with what's there.
.CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think it's pretty benign.
MEMBER LEHNERT : I do too.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anyone in the audience wishing to address the application?
Motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye we'll have a decision in two weeks.
HEARING#7813—LAWRENCE C. and JEANNE M. PROVENZANO
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Lawrence C. and
Jeanne M. Provenzano #7813. This is a request for variances from Article III Section 280-15,
Article XXIII Section 280-124, Article XXXVI Section 280-207 and the Building Inspector's April
10, 2023 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a permit to construct an accessory
in-ground swimming pool and construct additions and alterations to a single family dwelling
including a second story addition and a 31.5 sq. ft. outdoor shower at 1) pool located in other
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
than the code permitted rear yard, 2) additions more than the code permitted maximum lot
coverage of 20%. 3) additions located less than the code required minimum rear yard setback
of 35 feet, 4) gross floor area exceeding permitted maximum square footage for lot
containing up to 20,000 sq. ft. in area located at 555 Three Waters Lane in Orient.
ANTHONY PASCA : Anthony Pasca, 108 East Main St. Riverhead, I'm the attorney for the
applicants who are here. I want to introduce you to Bishop Larry Provenzano and Jeanne
Provenzano they've owned this property for about seven years. It's been a part time
residence for them and Bishop Provenzano is approaching retirement soonish and they've
been looking to turn this into their retirement home and they have a few adult children and
they're hoping to have some room,for them to come and visit them. So they embarked on this
project a while ago to start working on some renovations to the house building a little extra
space and put in a pool somewhere. They hired Kate Samuels who's here and I'd like her to
take you through the specific changes and then we'll talk a little bit about the variance.
KATE SAMUELS : Hello my name is Kate Samuels from Samuels and Steelman Architects. Larry
and Jeanne are the ones who hired me in April of 2022 for an addition and renovation of their
house at Three Waters. The goal of the renovation and addition was to create a (inaudible)
with four full bedrooms and an office. We were also hired to create pool and well and septic
system as well on the site. We looked at many options that weren't successful including
spreading off the master bedroom which added the lot coverage. We also looked at
(inaudible) the existing garage and create living space however and also adding a standalone
garage which also created and added to the lot coverage and setbacks. Lastly we looked at
also having an addition a second floor addition to the main house but it unfortunately was not
kind of a compact design. So ultimately the design that we ended up with was a second floor
over the existing garage and basically we were able to make use of the height of the garage
ceiling as you can see in this rendering to create that second floor. So ultimately the
additional height of the roof is only about three feet above the existing roof line. Ultimately
you know we have in the plans we were able to create three extra bedrooms in that addition.
Ultimately the addition is about 750 sq. ft. for that second floor addition. Ultimately in the
elevations and renderings it's shaded mostly on trees on most of the sides and for the scale of
the renovation we were looking to kind of-the other area other houses in the area to keep
with the existing context of the existing area. That is most of kind of the design. In terms of
the site plan we wanted to add just a very small 15 by 30 pool in the rear yard. It was really
kind of the only location since it is a corner lot so we tried to kind of include the pool close to
(inaudible). Ultimately the result of both the addition and the site plan was that there was
about an additional 580 sq. ft. over the allowed floor area which unfortunately as we were
kind of going through the Health Department application this resolution 746 passed so we
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
were really in the middle of that design process. So that was kind of a bit of the history and
the design and I welcome to answer any specific questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well let me enter into the record then unless you want to do this
what the variance requests are all about. So we're looking at a rear yard setback at 13 feet 11
inches where the code requires a minimum of 35 feet, lot coverage at 23.4% where the code
permits a maximum of 20%, gross floor area of 3,336 sq. ft. where the code permits a
maximum in this case of 2,568 sq. ft. There's a prior ZBA decision #550 by (inaudible) which
was a waiver of merger.
ANTHONY PASCA : Sorry you said 3,336 sq. ft.?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I did 3,236
ANTHONY PASCA : 3,236 1 think you said 3,336.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you 1 have 236 in my notes. The pool is in a side yard where
the code requires a rear yard location but it is a corner lot with two front yards we're aware
of that. It's very difficult in this case to even figure out where the rear yard is.
ANTHONY PASCA : It's because of the L-shaped house. If it was a traditional rectangle there
could be a primary and a secondary then you could determine which one was that but
because of the L-shape there is no side yard or no rear yard I'm sorry where you could put
MEMBER DANTES : Where the shed is but
ANTHONY PASCA : I mean as far as functionally that is the rear yard if you were there, when
you look at it you would say this is the rear yard but it's technically a side yard.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea we saw that.
ANTHONY PASCA : Two side yards actually. The pool that's half of it, the fact that there really
is no rear yard location for the pool we did want to meet the setbacks so that is the only
location for it. We tried as far as the coverage because that's the other impact the pool has
the coverage to minimize that as possible and ask for the minimum necessary by getting rid of
the shed and redoing the decks into a patio so that the net affect was less than the pool
addition. I think the pool 15 by 30 1 don't know what you guys typically see but that's on the
small it's as small as it really can be without it being a spa at some point. So you know I think
we're asking for the minimum relief that we can possibly ask for and still be able to put a pool
on the property. Pools are a customary amenity in the neighborhood they're all over. I think
I'd like to talk about the addition,this is a new law this
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
MEMBER DANTES : I have a question about that first because it says on the Notice of
Disapproval the one I have it says, please take notice your application dated January 25, 2023,
my understanding was that law didn't go into effect till after January 25tH
ANTHONY PASCA : (inaudible) I mean this was (inaudible) part of it I don't usually get to stand
in front of you and say it's not a self-created hardship cause almost always it is you know
when somebody buys. This project has been in the works for a lot longer and the law caught
up with them. As Kate said they were working through the Health Department side of it and
the new law kicked in and so we're subject to it we don't have vested rights but it isn't a self-
created hardship in that respect it's something that they just you know got caught up in.
MEMBER DANTES : Even though the application was in before the law.
ANTHONY PASCA : Yea because there was no built in you either get grandfathering vested
rights through a statutory grandfathering and there is not statutory grandfathering until you
put the framing up you don't have a vested right so unfortunately that's why the Building
Department flagged it. I wish that they had thought of saying, anybody who is in the pipeline
at this point is exempted but that's the Town Board prerogative so that's why we're here.
Anytime you're doing a new law you know you all have to be I'm sure that you're thinking
well this is our first one, probably I don't know if you've had any others but this may be your
first one on this new law and there's always that concern, well what kind of precedence are
we setting you know by giving variances and so I'd like to think of these as you're dealing with
good precedence, bad precedence. A precedent in and of itself is not a bad thing unless it's a
bad precedent so in this case what I think makes this a good template for the types of
applications that might be eligible for relief are they've been careful to stick to the footprint.
This is not an expansive application for an addition that then branches out beyond the
existing footprint. It's taking a one story house and adding a second story to part of it and
only doing so within you know a few feet of the roofline so in terms of impacts on the
character of the community I think it's negligible. I think it's hard to say like going around that
community that anyone would notice this to being quote, unquote out of character with the
neighborhood given what else is there. There are larger lots to be sure in the neighborhood
and larger houses than what this one is. We're in that range of where we have to ask for the
variance it's a three figure variance we're not even at a thousand square feet over but it's still
a variance so we still have to come before the Board. I'll point out that we do not exceed the
new law has a maximum so it creates this formula and it says up to a certain number, we do
not exceed the maximum but we're within the range of what would be allowable for this
category of lot size but we do admittedly need the variance. As Kate said we looked at
alternatives, we looked at alternatives there really is no because it's not a new construction
it's different if you're doing a new construction you might be able to build a bigger foundation
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
and get some living space down there but it would have been cost prohibitive to try to build
downward, lift the house remove the house built a new foundation it would have been a
much different project. As you can see there's new other location, there was some talk about
squaring off southeast corner but that would have added to lot coverage and it still would
have been GFA'ish. I think it's safe to say there's no environmental adverse environmental
impacts, there's going to be a new IA system built into this project. With respect to the GFA
variance it's not a self-created hardship.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Even if it is self-created it's still not (inaudible)
ANTHONY PASCA :True, true but I never get to say that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It is unusual.
ANTHONY PASCA : I never get to say that so I get to point out that it's not a self-created
hardship which is maybe a first for me in many years.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We don't see them often either.
MEMBER DANTES : Actually there is a grandfathering provision in the statute I just don't know
if this qualifies or not.
ANTHONY PASCA : You have it in front of you?
MEMBER DANTES : Yea, maximum gross floor area restrictions imposed by this Section 280-
207 shall not be applicable to any project otherwise subject to the restrictions for which
complete construction application has been submitted for approval to the Town of Southold
Building Department or discretionary Board which I'm assuming that's what we are prior to
the enactment date of this Section.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : But then let's look at dates. We just went through this with the
accessory apartment.
MEMBER DANTES : It finally got recorded I thought sometime_ last spring and then he's got
January 25th
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : They messed it up, they passed the wrong draft, voted on it sent it
to Albany had to rescind it and resend it. It would have been done a lot earlier but the
Attorney at the time erroneously submitted to the Board the wrong draft and they didn't
realize it till I screamed at them.
MEMBER DANTES : I think at least the GFA requirement might be
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We'll just have to look at dates.
ANTHONY PASCA : If you guys can the Building Department flagged it so we're here because
they flagged it we have to apply
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Understood
ANTHONY PASCA : You guys can certainly take a second look at that and then
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well it will mitigate you know
ANTHONY PASCA : It could mitigate or it can avoid having to even set a precedent.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Right so we'll have a look we just have to check dates. Thank you
for pointing that out.
ANTHONY PASCA : Questions of us or the applicants are here.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well we've driven around the neighborhood, we know what it
looks like, we. see what the other houses are, we see what the subject property looks like,
they're preserving some trees which is nice. It's going to look different but it's not going to
radically in my mind it will not architecturally radically change anything it will improve. It's a
very contextual design.
ANHONY PASCA : It's screened properly hard to see any impacts on anything.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea, did anybody talk to the neighbors or anything like that?
ANTHONY PASCA : Many of them.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So there's no objection, there's no support just unless somebody is
on Zoom.
MARGARET NESSBAUM Hello can you hear me, my name is Margaret Nessbaum good
morning all. I live right across the street from Lawrence and Jeanne and I'm very excited that
you have a new project but I have a number of questions which really tends to our most
precious resource that we all share is water use. First of all I'd like to share that one of my
neighbors who I did not get your certified letter has and expressed feeling that even though I
can see from out my window that you have big greenery your variance that you're asking for
is massively incongruous to what all the other small homes are here and that's just let's move
forward. More importantly I am interested in the water use. You said you're putting in a new
septic is that correct?
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
ANTHONY PASCA : There's a new septic system that is part of the project it's one of the low
nitrogen new systems that will replace the existing system.
MARGARET NESSBAUM : Excellent, are you going to have a gray water capture system for
reuse because as I can see you have irrigation to maintain those trees, is that correct?
ANTHONY PASCA : No irrigation for the trees.
MARGARET NESSBAUM : Oh so you're the only people that have green lawn even though
we're all brown. Let's move forward, how are you expecting to fill the water in the pool, is it
going to chlorinated or brominated?
ANTHONY PASCA : That has not been determined.
MARGARET NESSBAUM : You mean whether it's chlorine or bromine or so in other words you
may build a pool from the aquafer that we all si hare, is that correct?
ANTHONY PASCA : Should I keep answering these?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : With all respect to your questions and we're not trying in any way
to stop you, what they do relative to filling the pool is not before the Board of Appeals it is
really not relevant it's the location of the pool.
MARGARET.NESSBAUM : Oh no, no actually it should be because if the water use impacts all
the ground water of the neighbors then this should be denied. Let's move forward, how many
bathrooms are there,currently in the house?
(?)Three
MARGARET NESSBAUM : Three, and how many do you plan to add on to (inaudible) I just
want to know how much water are you guys going to be using? Is this going to be an
accessory apartment
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There will be one more bathroom then existing and that is a
matter for determination by the Health Department who supervisors and grants permits okay
for water usage on the property.
MARGARET NESSBAUM : So in other words my questions about water usage are not viable at
this time?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well I won't you know we're all concerned about water all
throughout the town
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
MARGARET NESSBAUM : Well that's the whole point here. Isn't that the entire point of how
much more water is this house going to use?The structure of the house whether it's beautiful
blah, blah, blah, has a shower I want to know how they're going to fill that pool and refill it
and
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well that is not determined at this point. You've already gotten an
answer
MARGARET NESSBAUM : The answer is you haven't decided. So you're not going to base your
decision so the apartment that's going to be
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Excuse me, ma'am look we understand your concern I think but
you are really you are free to comment but to continue to question especially when those
questions are not we're not equipped to address them, they are not before the Board of
Appeals.
MARGARET NESSBAUM : When will they be addressed?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :The Health Department will address those concerns.
MARGARET NESSBAUM : So I should call the Health Department immediately?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well perhaps the best course of action would be for you to consult
an attorney if you wish to pursue these complicated questions because the Board of Appeals
MARGARET NESSBAUM : I don't see them as being complicated, normal people can answer
these questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well the bottom line is these are not issues that are matters
before the Zoning Board of Appeals. We limit ourselves to whatever the law allows us to have
jurisdiction over.The applicant
MARGARET NESSBAUM : So the use of ground water is not your purview?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The use of ground water in this application is being addressed by
the incorporation of a new IA system and is proposed by the applicant that is it. If you have
more comments you're welcomed to make them but we are not in a position to answer
questions. So please proceed with any other comments you want to make
MARGARET NESSBAUM : I really appreciate you listening to me, hopefully this will not impact
our community in a detrimental way where we will have to take further action. I appreciate
your time. You guys all have a great day.
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you for your comments. Is there anybody else on Zoom? Is
there anybody in the audience?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : (inaudible) some calculations previous and I rechecked it, under the
old code their lot is approximately 13,750 sq. ft. they could have had 2,750 sq. ft. of footprint
originally but then in theory times two because you'd have a second floor. So a house of
approximately 5,500 sq. ft. and I'm saying this just because you guys are the first people that
we're working under the new code whether to Eric's point is truly applicable or not I think
you're here and it's a lovely design but under the new code you're allowed 2,100 sq. ft. for
the first 10,000 and then 12.5% for the additional 3,750 sq. ft. which is 2,568 total. Now you
don't have a finished basement, this house is more than half of what would' have been
allowed
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Under the old code.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : just a month or two before. I mean in a sense I'd argue it's a good
thing maybe a little sad because it's a small house compared to before but the opportunity
what the town hopes to achieve is to have people building things in scale within the
neighborhood.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don't personally with my architectural training and background
do not see this as out of scale with the rest of the community.
MEMBER PLANEMENTO : My only thought is that I'd remind people cause I don't like seeing
"as builts" when they come before us, you have a proposal to have an unfinished basement
please don't finish the basement because that impacts your livable
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Floor area
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : No that's what I'm saying.
ANTHONY PASCA : It was looked at as an alternative could the basement be finished but it
cannot be finished cause it's not (inaudible)
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : That kind of in a sense saddens me cause a basement shouldn't
impact anyone's use at a project like this home. I'm saying this cause this is the first
application we have under the new code and also it's a small house.
MEMBER LEHNERT : And a percentage of their lot coverage is the pool.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Well you still have the 20%for the pool just not for the livable.
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think we've heard all we need to hear, is there anything else from
anybody? Okay motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a
second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. Motion to recess for lunch is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. Motion to reconvene, is there a second?
MEMBER DANTES : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye
4'Q
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
HEARING#7804—9450 MAIN BAYVIEW LLC/DANIEL MARRA
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The first application before the Board this afternoon is for 9450
Main Bayview LLC/Daniel Marra #7804. This is a request for a variance from Article XXIII
Section 280-124 and the Building Inspector's March 30, 2023 Notice of Disapproval based on
an application for a permit to construct a single family dwelling at 1) located less than the
code required minimum front yard setback of 50 feet located at 9450 Main Bayview Rd. in
Southold. So this is a proposed we've certainly have seen this before and we went back and
forth between Trustees and ZBA. This is a proposal for a new single family dwelling with a
front yard setback at 20 feet where the code requires a minimum of 50 feet on this particular
lot. So that's to conform to the required setbacks oh okay hold on. I've got notes in here that
indicates what you put into your application already but what's going on with the Trustees?
They've had hearings I know there was a couple of denials and it would appear that you were
before them more recently and there was no decision rendered. We didn't get an approval or
a denial. '
ANTHONY PORTILLO : So this is our third design on this property the smallest of the three
obviously. The first one was probably double the size it (inaudible) D.E.C. approval and then it
went to Trustees and it was denied by Trustees. I thought I took their comments into
consideration on the second application but it also was denied. Then we submitted a third
application and we did have a we actually just did a site visit with them. During that site visit
the owner Dan Marra was present and they are asking us to get 80 feet from the freshwater
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : 80?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Yes ma'am 80 feet from the freshwater wetland line.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It would appear that from the survey we have you're proposing
79.4 they want 80.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Yea we'll probably get a little bit we'll see from the floor plans it's
bunch of the house is pretty small but we're able to get three bedrooms and two full
bathrooms and a half bath on the first floor and then really just like a kind of an open floor
plan on the first floor for living space.-I actually wanted to present a couple of things.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Sure go ahead.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : I'm going to read into the record but it's a couple of approvals of homes
nearby that got variances.
MEMBER DANTES : Do you have D.E.C. or a letter of non-jurisdiction from D.E.C.?
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
ANTHONY PORTILLO : We had D.E.C. approval on our first design which is much larger we
were like 55 feet from the freshwater but I don't think that's going to be an issue (inaudible)
an amendment. I just wanted to get Trustees approval first before I go back to the D.E.C.
BOARD ASSISTANT : You do have to go back?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : I will I think once Trustees approves it then we can go back to the D.E.C.
cause again,I don't want to spin my wheels with that
MEMBER DANTES : If you can get us a copy of that first the D.E.C. approval for our file.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Sure, actually I wrote something it's a little bit of a tricky site. So the
property listed as SCTM#1000-87-05-22, 9450 Main Bayview has site specific conditions that
create design limitations. The properties total lot area is 53,596 sq. ft. although about 44,578
sq. ft. of that is wetland area which leave us with approximately 29,017 sq. ft. of buildable
area which is I sort'of drew that out or map it out on that site (inaudible). When the previous
application was presented before the Trustees there was a limitation from their department
that said that they would only allow us to build 80 feet from the wetlands on the property.
Taking this limitations from the Trustees and the allowed setback from the Zoning Board in
consideration this leaves us with no area to build a dwelling. The 50 foot front yard setback
and the 80 foot setback from the wetlands overlap. Due to this we're requesting a variance
from the ZBA that allows the client to construct a relatively small dwelling that only occupies
about three percent of the properties lot coverage. In order to propose this we stand before
the ZBA requesting relief for a 20 foot front yard setback. If the Zoning Board did not count
the wetlands as part of the lot area and only consider the buildable area the lot would be
determined a non-conforming lot'under 39,999 sq. ft. This would allow the dwelling to sit 40
feet from the front yard 15 feet from the side yard and 35 foot combined and 50 feet from
the rear which then we would only be proposing a 20 foot variance or relief. It is common for
Main Bayview Road's character that the dwellings are set near the road and a study done by
our office we have determined that there are numerous properties that have been
constructed 40 feet or closer to the road. 9450 Main Bayview Rd. has a specific addition
where the property line has a 20 foot about a 22 foot buffer from the road despite requesting
a 20 foot front yard variance. The dwelling will still sit back further from the road. The
dwelling will still sit back further from the road than its neighboring properties. Some
properties with similar front yard setbacks conditions include 9625 Main Bayview, 4015 Main
Bayview, 5875 Main Bayview and also I think seven examples which we sort of showed you
where they were located down Main Bayview on the map I presented. So just to kind of
summarize a little bit, what I'm suggesting is we obviously have a hardship with the land and
where the wetlands is you can see that we sort of gave you guys a sort of a mark out of like
4
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
where 80 feet is and really the area we can really put a home on the property. My other
thought on this is having that buffer from the street we're really going to be 40 feet off the
street line so I don't think we're really creating a presence on the road and one other thing
that we sort of thought about in the design is to try to keep it as low as possible even though
it's a two story one of the things we considered based on the Trustees is don't do a normal
foundation. We are going to do a pier foundation cause we want to have the least amount of
disturbance to the land. So doing a flat roof design really brings the structure down it's not
going to be as tall as maybe a normal pitched structure. The other thought on this was about
to kind of deduct the wetlands area then you really would have a non-conforming lot and our
relief would be smaller and that was really what I was getting at if you looked at it that way. I
do believe that if you look down Main Bayview on that map that we provided there are a lot
of homes right across the street a little more east you have a home that's basically like 20 feet
off the road it's pretty close to its property line which I have there was a relief for. This relief
is ZBA file 6853 the property is 9625 Main Bayview and they were granted a relief for a 10
foot front yard setback on a reconstruction and that variance was granted. Then there was
another variance that was granted similar on this road, 4015 Main Bayview there was a front
yard variance of 28 feet 7 inches on a 50 foot required front yard so we're asking for a little
bit more than that but I think it's similar. Like I said I think one thing to think about here is
(inaudible)from the street line.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Are any of these brand new construction?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : This one was a reconstruction so it was an existing home that was
reconstructed based on Southold Town Code.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea cause that's what I remember I mean a lot of them were there
already so they were already non-conforming. It's a little bit different when you're starting
from scratch. You know very well the limitations of this building site.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : I do believe if you when we're talking about zoning and thinking about
reliefs I believe that you really are looking at the neighborhood that you're constructing a
building in. I mean that's the prime example where a lot of the homes in this neighborhood
are built close to the street I mean (inaudible) drive up and down this road.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So how close are you to getting a determination from the
Trustees?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Like is said the meeting with them on site went really well, they asked
us to come back here to basically get approval from the Board on what you would allow on
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
the front yard setback and then we would go bath there. It sounded to me that if we are
holding that 80 feet that that would be acceptable to them.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well because this property's primary driver is really environmental
impacts more than anything else that's been the reason for the difficulty to begin with. I think
our Board would prefer to have a determination from the Trustees. I mean typically we would
render decisions before that, there's no hard and fast rule, there's nothing in the code that
requires it. The point is and I don't want to see people bounce back and forth and caught in
the middle but you have a lot more negotiating ability with Trustees. I mean you can sit down
and discuss it in a pre-conference submission you can discuss it at the site, we're in real time
here. I mean I don't know if you want to phrase it any other way but if they have a hard and
fast line then the ZBA
ANTHONY PORTILLO : But we did have the site visit and at least they're (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I understand but they haven't you know written their
determination yet and if you're that close then I don't know that we would need another
public hearing particularly cause I don't think there's any more information we're going to
learn. So I think basically I don't really have any questions about it, it's a fairly modest sized
house it's certainly a lot smaller than what we started with and the you know as you point out
the setback at 20 feet from the property line is going to look a lot larger than that it won't be
totally out of keeping.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Is there anyway the Board is in agreeance with what we're proposing
and thinks the relief is something they're going to grant I don't know how to communicate
that to the Trustees so that they can cause to me it sounded like their determination wasn't
gonna be granted until Zoning made some determination. So I thought I would just I don't
know where that's going to go with them if I go back and then it all seemed like it went well
but I don't have any
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You can communicate it to them. I mean you know we certainly
don't have no problem I can call Glenn today. I mean the bottom line is if you're that close
and they made a determination of 80 feet and you tweak your site plan to 80 feet and Liz
writes up an administrative permit then you know that's a decision that the ZBA can then say
that's a hard and fast decision. Then we have to look and see whether or not that front yard
setback is warranted based upon those standards which you've addressed in your application
and here. We need to put an end to this one way or the other,this
ANTHONY PORTILLO : I would appreciate that because you know again my client has the right
to do what he wants basically and
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CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Understood, people have property rights.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : We've doing this for two years now.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well because it's really you know it's a very tough almost
unbuildable site given where the water table is and everything else and the small lot size.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : The area where we are proposing to build (inaudible) the higher part of
the lot and get septic in there, it's not a problem
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea it wouldn't be a building site if you couldn't.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : We're not going in the water though where we're proposing it so you
might be on other building sites where you are putting a septic system in the water that's not
the case here.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : Can I just ask you, why did the Trustees issue two previous decisions
without waiting to see what the ZBA was going to do? Did they give you an indication why
now they want this?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Honestly I thought it was a pretty harsh ruling and they I feel like there
should have been a discussion and then an adjournment. Maybe it didn't hear properly when
they were looking for the statement of 80 feet never came up until we did the site visit.
Looking back I would say (inaudible) would,have probably been helpful so that we didn't go to
a public hearing with that and go back and forth but again that mention of the 80 foot
discussion was at the site visit not at any hearings. They didn't fully tell us like hey if you push
it back to this which if they did then I would have tried I would have come up with a different
design (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well we're not going to I don't think need we'll hear from you
know today from anyone else who wants to address the application but I don't think we're
going to need look this is what it is and I think we're going to have to make a decision one way
or the other based on what you've submitted. The point is to make a decision one way or the
other based on what you've submitted. The point is I think it would be important since the
primary we're going to have to talk we already have an appointment scheduled to talk to
Trustees not about just this application but about this whole process. We don't want to
burden property owners unfairly and we want to do a better job when we have concurrent
jurisdiction like we do with the Planning Board to coordinate things to run as smoothly as
possible between Trustees and ZBA. Originally you know it was an informal agreement
because the ZBA has more (inaudible) powers than Trustees we would tend to go first to see
what restrictions if any we might impose and then it would be an easier job for them to
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proceed. In cases like this I think we have to make some exceptions because their either
Board could undo what the other Board did I mean in theory you know it's happened before.
We've granted something first over on Lake Maratooka and they decided the house needed
to be pushed back closer to the road and what they didn't understand was not only creating
then a front yard variance which we didn't have to grant previously but side yard variances
cause the lot was shaped like this it wasn't parallel. So then they had to come back to us
again. If we can avoid that it's in everybody's best interest. We can speak to them about it but
I don't know how does the Board to me the best thing to do is to simply hear what else
everybody has to say and then adjourn it without a date until such time as the Trustees have
rendered their decision and then I'm pretty sure we can just simply close it and make a
decision on our own without having to do anything further. Does that make sense to
everybody?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I'm fine with that.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : The property owner is here he wanted to just address (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Absolutely let them say whatever they'd like to, I think maybe
there's someone other people in the audience want to speak.
DANIEL MARRA : How you doing, Dan Marra the owner of the property. I just want to let you
guys know that we have been working with Trustees and we're trying to you know do what
they would like us to do to be conforming as much as possible and this is just a house that I'm
building-for my family it's not like I'm a builder out here I work out here all the time I'm just
trying to get a small little house out here to have somewhere to go. We've always wanted a
place out here, we're from Nassau County so I just hope you guys can kind of understand and
give us a little relief somehow you know.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's what we're here for the Board of relief, the Board of
,Appeals. I appreciate that by the way so you're aware, we have copies from the Trustees
office of the hearing transcript the letter that you wrote to them of the testimony and the
hearing of the prior denials and the reasons for those denials so we have a pretty complete
package of everything. I just wanted to make sure that we have a total you know because
over time we have a lot of reason you know with the details can get foggy so we want to
make sure we have everything absolutely up to date on here.
DANIEL MARRA :Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You're very welcome. Anybody else want to address the Board?
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
MARY KIRSH : Hi my name is Mary Kirsh and I am the property owner adjacent to Mr. Marra's
(inaudible) package. I'll just recap a little bit what's been going on. About a year ago we came
here and they suggested that we go to the Trustees because there's a very large vernal pond
situated on the property. I live next to that pond and I know that at April 15' the (inaudible)
show up and then the salamanders and the turtles a,nd it's alive and well and thriving with a
lot of life, it's really like a preserve. Lots of aquatic life a lot of birds and it deserves to be
protected. Evidently the Trustees agreed with me because they denied it .two times. They
denied it because Mr. Marra can't he didn't have the 100 foot setback from the pond and it
deserves to be protected and not only the Trustees but the Conservation Advisory and the
Local Waterfront Revitalization Program. Both of those agencies also did not support this.
Another issue with Mr. Marra's proposal is the pond is it's a freshwater pond and it's fed
through springs and at certain times of the year it goes up and it goes up high and it
percolates and there's gonna I don't know if he's aware but it's going to be percolating right
under his foundation and around that foundation. The next problem that for me his driveway
is on my property line and the reason is, because he just doesn't have the footage on this
particular lot. So we're here at the Zoning Board the code for the Zoning Board is 50 feet, he
wants a variance of 30 feet. I love the North Fork I chose to live on Main Bayview because I
kind have a relationship with it when I was younger and I like coming down there and seeing
things look harmonious and appealing and easy on the eyes and to have a new structure built
you know a 20 foot front yard would send a terrible precedence for Main Bayview's future.
Things could just in a few years it would be that whole spirit would disappear. I understand
why we have codes and now that I'm here I see that they're very necessary because people
kind of they do kind of crazy things. But anyway, another thing to be noted is this property
was in foreclosure and the judge at the auction told everyone that it was an unbuildable lot.
Now I don't know if Mr. Marra didn't do his homework or he didn't do his research but it was
public knowledge and maybe he things he's a little bit he's going to get over as the kids say or
whatever because he purchased it. It was unbuildable twenty five years ago when I built my
property because the Trustees told me find another parcel Mary. Anyway, as of Monday I'm
on my deck and I hear yelling and talking and I go out next to the property and there is a crew
of guys all guys and a truck that are backing into Mr. Marra's property and I said what are you
doing? He said oh well we have a permit and we're going to cut down the trees. I says wait a
minute we're going to discuss this on Thursday, oh no, no, no it wasn't until I said well I guess
I have to call the Police that I got a response and the man decided okay I'm going to leave. So
after all said and done I just feel as though he can't meet the criteria the codes from the
Zoning Board, he can't meet the criteria from the Trustees the 100 foot setback, he's actually
asking for a 51 foot pass variance and I would,just like that this Board you know deny his
request because I'm sorry but this property but you have to do your homework. You have to
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August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
know codes when you buy a car you just don't go and buy it you do your research and you
had a lot of history. That's all I have to say.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you for your comments.
TOM PASSANANT : Good afternoon, my name is Tom Passanant and I reside too on the
property adjacent to 9450 and I'd like to voice my opposition to the proposal to revise the
setback from 50 feet to 20 feet. It's a significant reduction 60% reduction. I was in attendance
at the two Trustees meetings in March and also June of 2022. One of the permanent
conclusion by Mr. Sepnosksi and Ms. Gillepsie was the 100 foot buffer zone from the distance
to that pond the freshwater pond and they were pretty adamant'about it. A final conclusion
was made that Mr. Marra was allowed to (inaudible). They were pretty serious (inaudible).
Today is the first time I'm hearing about an 80 foot and as you were discussing that I was
wondering if you know are we entitled to be involved with that discussion too. I know you
said it's been (inaudible) and maybe come to some sort of conclusion soon. Me and Mary are
learning this today that 80 feet but a buffer zone was presented but that was news to us. That
was June of 2022, 1 obtained a copy from the Conservation Advisory Board we had a meeting
on July 6th of 2022 but I wasn't aware until after and I understand that they're only an
advisory capacity. I would like to read that conclusion from July 6th that the six members
resolve to not support the application of 9450 Main Bayview single family dwelling, the CAC
does not support the application because the project was not in compliance to Chapter 275
Wetlands and the Local Waterfront Revitalization Program. Less than a week ago I decided
what's Chapter 275 cause that was their statement. There was no other (inaudible) about it. I
looked up Chapter 275 on the town website under the (inaudible) section and my own
edification I came up with some points if I can briefly state them that probably contributes to
CAC decision. The first one defines Corey Creek as a critical environmental area you touched
on that Ms. Weisman. Corey Creek borders the whole property in that series of (inaudible)
wetlands (inaudible). The second thing I identified these all definitions in Chapter 275 it
defines a habitat a place where plant and animal species grow. I thought that was pertinent
too. It's not just a lot that's allowed to kind of get vacant and grow it's a living breathing
there's so many things I can tell you fifty plants and animals and birds mammals off the top of
my head that thrive there. The next point is number three, habitat fragmentation which was
defined and kind of occurs as the result of removal of vegetated cover changes in sediment
characteristics and.changes in hydrology and water problems. Clearly clear cutting will impact
that fragmentation of that property especially the freshwater pond. Then I saw a term called
non-disturbance buffer, a vegetated,area designed landward of the wetland boundary where
no operation maintenance placement and signs or other activity may take place. When that
buffer as far as I experience was 100 foot defined by the Trustees when I attended that
meeting last March and last June. (inaudible) setback and this is all new to me so I was kind of
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August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
beaching myself all this. The minimum disturbance by which any building structure operation
must be separated from a wetland boundary, there's a minimum requirement. Number six
was a freshwater wetlands an area that can support trees which is an emergent species, the
freshwater wetland emergent species house a whole bunch of reeds in there too. Simple
definitions but the concluding one Chapter 27S Section D stated minimal setbacks from the
wetlands boundary of 100 feet and today is the first day I'm hearing 80 feet and I know that
the survey shows 79 feet which is a 21% reduction from the original request of 100 feet. So all
these factors make (inaudible) to protect this property and it's a sensitive area. Now I'm
hoping to remain protected is now (inaudible). We already touched on the events of Monday,
about eleven thirty what was it July 31St when she saw a bunch of workmen walking around
the property and she did ask them what they were doing and they said that they were going
to begin clearing the land even cut trees. Mary said she would call the Police. They walked
away there was no dispute. Immediately when I heard that the only recourse I could feel was
to call the Trustees, I called the Town (inaudible) and I spoke to Elizabeth the secretary and
she said that it's not their jurisdiction but advised that I call the Building Department. So I
called the Building Department and I spoke to a man named Michael and I explained what
happened briefly, (inaudible) to what I said and he asked me is that lot vacant? I said yes and
he said if it's vacant this is not permissible to have people clear cut, clearing or whatever
action they were going to do which is what the man told Mary and I believe Mary she told
(inaudible) too. I said to him Michael isn't this in violation, this is wrong this is not in
compliance it's some kind of violation. He couldn't give me an answer other than he
suggested I call the Code Enforcement Department. So I called the Code Enforcement this is
all Monday morning between 11:30 and 12:00 and I spoke to someone named Julie and she
asked me the same questions is the lot vacant? I said it was and she said any action prior to
the hearing is not permissible.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : I'm Julie, what I said to you was that without the permit they weren't
allowed to clear it.
TOM PASSANANT : Without a permit?
T. A. MCGIVNEY : They don't have a building permit that's why they're here but you said that
they left and I said if they were to come back you would have to call Code Enforcement. They
never called back.
TOM PASSANANT : From you was to say if you see any activity call me and we would send an
agent out to intervene.
T. A. MCGIVNEY :That's all I can do. If they were in fact cutting, not being
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August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
TOM PASSANANT : But there was (inaudible) activity and the next morning I saw a thirty foot
yellow tape with caution it's still there now as we were coming to this meeting today. So I
don't know where that came from if it was put up by the property owner. I can assume it
might be from the Code Enforcement Department as a kind of don't
T. A. MCGIVNEY : No
TOM PASSANANT : that yellow line came from
T. A. MCGIVNEY : No that's
TOM PASSANANT : I saw that not knowing where it came from but nobody did come to the
property. To me you know a little over seventy two hours prior to the hearing to actually
instruct the work crew to go out and in their words to clear the land seems a violation of
something.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : The gentleman at the site tell you that they were told to come and clear the
land?
TOM PASSANANT : They said that to Mary not to me directly.
MARY KIRSH : They said we're building a house we have filed.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : That's kind of they're not hear to defend themselves and it's not really
relevant to this hearing so
MEMBER DANTES : Even so I think we have our variance standards we have to follow so I
mean this isn't really part of the standards.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : Right not relevant to the
MEMBER DANTES : For us you have to go by the standards.
TOM PASSANANT : Not having any experience in this that these types of things have
happened before but to me it seems like wrong.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : You seem to have experience you mentioned that you were at the last two
hearings and you spoke at the last two hearings so you certainly have some experience in this.
TOM PASSANANT : So in conclusion and request that you deny this variance, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Thank you for your comments. Would you like to speak now?
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Just take a couple of minutes, just to be clear we asked a couple of our
guys to clear some of the brush away cause we wanted to give you guys a line so you can see
where the front of the house would be if you guys were going out there. We weren't cutting
anything or clearing any trees. They didn't speak good English and that's what they said. I just
wanted to clear that up. Regarding the driveway it's not passing the property line on our site
plan.
MARY KIRSH : It's on the property line, it's touching it.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : If you look at our site plan it's not touching the property line. (inaudible)
about the looking down Main Bayview or driving down Main Bayview and what we're
proposing is (inaudible) Main Bayview just to go back to my map (inaudible)you can see that
there's seven (inaudible) there very similar to (inaudible). We did do a test hole (inaudible)
septic and we do have (inaudible) location so there are no concerns with groundwater
(inaudible). In regards to being an unbuildable lot it is a buildable lot by town code (inaudible)
it's not an unbuildable lot just to be clear about that. The only other thing I don't want to go
(inaudible) have anything to do with this but he kept saying that 100 feet from the wetlands
just to be clear that's the jurisdiction of the Trustees not necessarily that you can't build inside
of the 100 feet so I just wanted to be clear that that's not a setback requirement for us. Our
discussion with the Trustees on site was that they're looking for us to be 80 feet that that
would be within their compliance.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well yea that's correct, I mean what the 100 foot means is that if
anything is built within a 100 feet of a wetlands then it is within the jurisdiction of the Trustees
to render an approval or permit. It doesn't say hard and fast what they're decision is going to
be about how far away, it would be site specific depending on the site. If you build 100 feet
away they have nothing to do with it, they have no jurisdiction then.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : So I just want to make that clear cause I think it was mentioned that we
have to be outside the 100 feet.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is correct.
ANTHONY.PORTILLO : I just want to state that in regards to buying this land I did speak to Dan
Marra about this cause we know each other pretty well and when you're dealing with
freshwater wetlands in my experience 50 feet has been pretty common and approved by
D.E.C. and I've worked with Trustees when they've approved that. With that said we also
looked at some of the neighboring lots and the neighbors that are here today actually are
about 52 feet away from
MARY KIRSH : That was in the past.
,
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
ANTHONY PORTILLO : the same line so I just want to state that in purchasing this land there
was an analysis that it seemed that it was something we could build a house on using some of
those thoughts of what I've seen in the past be approved. Like I said D.E.C. approved us I think
we're about 55 feet I'll give you the ruling. So it was a little strange to me that when I did go to
Trustees that they were in somewhat agreeance with the D.E.C. and you know maybe part of
that having to do with some of newer Board Members whatever it might be. I just wanted to
say that in regards to doing some homework we didn't just Dan didn't just purchase this land
thinking hey I can build something on this I'll get it through. Our thought was that we could be
closer to the (inaudible) freshwater wetland than what they're allowing us to now so
(inaudible) hardship because-80 is kind of what they're looking for. Okay?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, thank you for your clarification. Is there anybody on Zoom
who wants to address this?
MARY KIRSH : There was an email.
MEMBER DANTES : I think there were two letters.
MARY KIRSH : I know a neighbor sent an email.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes we got that.
GAIL WICKHAM : I'm here on behalf of Mary Kirsch who I believe is also there. I just wanted to
supplement what was said. Did I hear that the hearing will be held over?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We were talking Gail about the fact that it would appear that
they're very close to the Trustees approving an 80 foot wetlands setback which would then
determine precisely what variance the ZBA would have to grant if we decided to grant
anything. So it made more sense the driving force in this application is environmental impacts
for the Trustees to render their determination and then we can proceed to we won't need
another hearing because I think we've heard everything we need to hear but we'll hold it open
until we receive their determination and then we will close it and write our decision. So that
was what the proposed process was.
GAIL WICKHAM : Well I would certainly agree because that was the determination that your
Board made initially on this application was to wait for the Trustees to actually weigh in. Did 1
understand that once you get a Trustees approval you would close the hearing or there would
be a further opportunity for us to be heard? If it's the former well I'm happy to defer my
presentation if you're going to continue the hearing as opposed to close it after submission.
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think we'd rather take your testimony now. Our hearing dates are
just jammed pack and we will never compromise that if there is a way to expedite this
without having to hold another public hearing if we hear what you have to say now unless
there are some absolute you know really confusing things in which case rather than closing it
we would adjourn it to a public hearing date. My expectations would be that if there was
Trustees approval the Board could then close it and then render it's decision. Again unless
there is some unpredicted things that happen between now and then 'we could possibly
adjourn it you know to a hearing date but the intent would be not to have another hearing.
We've heard this so many times it's not like we're going to get brand new information on it.
So why don't you just go ahead and present what you have in mind.
GAIL WICKHAM : Okay I will try to be brief. I'd like to. incorporate into the record if it is not
already the record of the prior hearing as well as the Trustees hearings. I would like to note
that the application today is for a 79 foot setback from the wetlands if I read the map
correctly and the proposed which brings the house within twenty feet of Main Bayview Rd.
and that of course is our issue, we think it's completely out of character with other houses in
the neighborhood. The applicant just stated that he didn't have any assurance before he
bought that it could be built upon, that he's trying to get a buildable lot but we think quite
frankly given the extent of the wetlands here and all the environmental impacts, the
groundwater the ability of the soil to absorb any kind of runoff and proximity of the
groundwater that it is just not a feasible place to have a residence for percolation purposes
for all kinds of environmental prudent concerns. We also note that the wetlands have finally
been delineated I think that was one of the problems on the earlier hearing currently but I
wanted to note that the wetlands markings are delineated by a notation on the map of Sean
Brown M.S. and we have no idea what his credentials might be. It doesn't say that he is an
expert in environmental matters or Trustees matters. So I did want to question that, it's up
the upper left corner there.
T. A. MCGIVNEY : Where is that that you're speaking of?The map that
GAIL WICKHAM : I think it's up in the upper left hand
T. A. MCGIVNEY : The one we have is by En-Consultants.
GAIL WICKHAM : That's not the map I saw.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's a proposed site plan okay and it's drawn by Anthony Portillo
and it says up in the corner, edge of freshwater boundary as delineated by En-Consultants Inc.
October 31, 2005.
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
GAIL WICKHAM : Yes that was the 2005 map but the more recent one that was submitted
with your application now has a more recent date by someone else.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let me look and see what
MEMBER DANTES : I have that one but it's still stamped by Scalice Land Surveyor.
GAIL WICKHAM : It is but not the I don't know what the data points you know what the
qualifications
BOARD ASSISTANT :That's a survey not a site plan correct?
MEMBER DANTES : Well it's pretty close to the old one so
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I'm looking for I have that too I just can't find it at the moment.
GAIL WICKHAM : It was in a box I think it was in the lower left.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea we have it stamped received April 20, 2023 and it's by Scalice
Land Surveying is that the one you're referring too?
MEMBER DANTES : Yep and it does there is a Sean Brown listed on here.
GAIL WICKHAM : So the bottom line is that 20 feet is a real disruption to the code, the
neighborhood and you know to try and shoe horn this in on such a sensitive lot just is not a
good precedent for the town or the neighborhood.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay
GAIL WICKHAM : There's nowhere you know you can have dry wells but if there's no place for
the water in them to go they're going to overflow. You can have all kinds of ameliorating
factors or mitigating factors but if there's no place for the water to go then you're going to
have basement issues you're going to have all kinds of issues and besides the setback, 20 feet
is a huge percentage difference from 50.
MEMBER DANTES :There won't be basement issues because they're using piles.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN You may not have heard earlier was that Anthony Portillo the
architect indicated that it's a pier foundation and it's not a conventional basement.
GAIL WICKHAM : Yes
August 3,2023 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Percolation is not as large an issue with something like that.
Anthony, when you had prior Department of Health approval was it for an IA system located
in that same basic area cause it's high enough and it's not in the water table?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : That's correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And you're not going to have to do any regrading in that area to
get it in?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : It's the highest part of the land.
GAIL WICKHAM : But you still have roof runoff you still have I'm sorry
ANTHONY PORTILLO : If I can just state that things that Gail is bringing up I believe are under
our building code our requirements and we have to meet the building code we're going to
have to meet Trustees requirements on dry wells. Our dry wells are going to have to be a
certain distance from groundwater, we won't design it that way. Some of the statements
being made I feel have now backing from Gail or others because they haven't done any of this
testing and it's kind of and we have done this test and in regards to credentials for the mark
out I don't think it's really for this Board, I would say if the Trustees want the credentials
that's fine. The person who did the mark out can provide us (inaudible) satisfactory to the
Trustees I would imagine it's satisfactory to the Zoning Board. I would keep saying the same
things cause I keep hearing the same things, (inaudible) to the neighborhood (inaudible) to
me is a lot of the homes are upfront on the street and a lot of homes are built on that creek
and a lot of homes have wetlands on their lots that are on this street. I keep hearing
unbuildable but it is a single and separate lot, it is buildable so I feel like these terms are being
really loosely thrown around and I just want to be clear on the record that those things aren't
really true and somewhat of a false statement.
GAIL WICKHAM : I have to respond to that I'm sorry. First of all we're talking about front yard
setback in your particular variance. Second of all, I refer back to the testimony in prior
hearings about the non-percolation characteristics of the soil. There is going to be roof runoff,
there's going to be yard runoff. There's just no place for it to go except the street and the
neighbor's yard. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you Gail. Does the Board have any questions at this point?
We have an ever increasingly thick file on this application, we got more (inaudible). I want to
thank everybody for their input it's very helpful all the way around and I want to thank
everyone for participating. This is why we have public hearings and that's what's great about
a small town because we're all accessible to each other and we listen and we also know our
communities. Board do we want to proceed just adjourning and we'll speak to the Trustees
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
and maybe you can Anthony and see how fast we can get this done and then as I said if there
are no unforeseen things that arise and by the way just so you all know as long as this hearing
is held open any additional we can take written additional comments. So if anybody wants to
submit anything else it'll just make it a thicker file.
MARY KIRSH : Does that mean we're going to have another meeting with the Trustees or
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That'll be up to the Trustees.
MARY KIRSH : Should I get in touch with them?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You can call their office and see what is on their schedule and how
they're planning to proceed. We don't really have any say on how they do that but they can
tell you and certainly you know it'll be public whatever they do it's not going to be behind
closed doors and they too will welcome whatever input you know is received. As I said once
that's done and we know what they decide and we have a final site plan that shows exactly
what they've granted with their permit then we will be able to proceed without having to go
back and forth. Clearly you know if you can only be so far from here then you're going to have
to be closer to there. It's this back and forth and back and forth and I think they tried very
hard to take into consideration all the information all the objections. They've come up with
yet another plan, we're prepared to look at it again with open minds as is the fair way to
proceed. So we'll see what Trustees do and you can always call our office as well to see if we
have any further update. Everything we have gets scanned into Laser Fiche it's all public
record but I just wanted to let you know if you had any other thoughts between now and then
the records open so you can submit them in writing. If we have to have another hearing we
will and then it will be back here with more testimony. I don't know that that's going to be
necessary I'm hoping it won't be but we're going to wait and see what things unfold. Does
that make sense? Okay hearing no further comments I'm going to make a motion to adjourn
this application without a date. Is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye, we'll let the Trustees know what happened, I'm sure they'll be
interested anyway. Thank you for your patients Martin.
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
HEARING#7815— MARY KATHLEEN MARTIN and PHILIPPE VAILLANCOURT
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The last application before the Board is for Mary Kathleen Martin
and Philippe Vaillancourt#7815. This is a request for a variance from Article III Section 280-15
and the Building Inspector's May 11, 2023 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a
permit to construct an accessory in-ground swimming pool at 1) located in other than the
code permitted rear yard at 375 Mill Rd. in Mattituck.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : Good afternoon, Martin Finnegan 13250_Main Rd. Mattituck for the
applicants Mary Kathleen Martin and Philippe Vaillancourt. I'm here today for I hope will be a
less complicated application for a side yard variance for the construction of a swimming pool.
This is on a one acre parcel on Mill Rd. in Mattituck. It's a through lot but it really doesn't have
a whole lot to do with why we're here. Why we're here really is because of the topography of
this lot because of the location of the house and the configuration of the existing home. It
kind of has a larger front yard area and have to push the pool there to make it work. The
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applicant is proposing as you can see from the plans to construct an 18 by 36 in-ground pool.
It has a 12 by 16 sun deck. It had originally been configured parallel but it now perpendicular
to the house so go back as far as possible. So one thing I did want to note is I anticipated that
there would be a question about where the drywell will go. You may note that that is not on
the plan you may have had. I did email an updated plan and I will submit stamped copies of.
We're going to put the drywell right south of the pool right here and the pool mechanicals are
shown on the plan that you have on the record but somehow that slipped through the cracks
but I just wanted you to know that that's been taken care of. Anyway just to briefly address
the 267 criteria, as to character of the community this is a community there's lots of shapes
and sizes of lots but there are surrounding homes that have pools in the vicinity to the
northwest and east. The pool is to be constructed substantially in the rear yard but we do
need some relief to fit it back there based on the shape of the property. Other than its actual
location the pool is completely conforming to the bulk schedule. There is ample screening as
you can see from the photographs, I'm sure you were out there yourself of the properties to
the east and north we do have letters of support from the Brigmans who live just north and
from Christian Shultz who owns the property just to the east in support of the application so
with all that we do not fully that the granting of relief will result in (inaudible) change or any
detriment to the surrounding neighbors but we do need the variance relief because as I
explained because of just the way the house "sits and the way the it's configured to achieve
the benefit of the swimming pool and (inaudible) recreational space. Substantiality we would
argue that it's not substantial again in light of the (inaudible) lot the location of the house and
the fact that construction is otherwise completely conforming to the zoning. We don't believe
there's any perceivable adverse impacts, the construction of a pool here in the side yard it is
again screened, I think if you've seen the property there's also a lot of screening on the front
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
yard of the property so the pool itself would barely be visible from the road. As to self-
creation we (inaudible) so I'm happy to answer any questions you have regarding the
application.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I do have a couple of questions, I'll start and then turn it over to
the Board. We didn't get any drawings of the pavilion itself.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : It's not subject to the
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No, no I know but I can't tell if that's enclosed or if it's open.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : It's a pavilion it's open it's just an open
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh okay so it's just columns and a roof.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : Yes
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, because in looking at this it occurred to me that it's kind of
unusual to have these two T-shaped buildings facing you know the pool is got a T on it and the
pavilion has a T on it and if that T was eliminated from the pavilion and it even could be
eliminated from the pool you could put the whole thing in the rear yard. The pool and
pavilion could both be in the rear yard. I don't understand why that design was chosen.
MEMBER DANTES : I don't understand but isn't it you have the 25 for the access easement
your clients seem to be able to use and then the road
J
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's the other thing.
MEMBER DANTES : How do you have a rear yard at all and not two front yards and then a side
yard?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It kind of appears to dead end on the you know just about where
the pool is but I was wondering the same cause it is accessible. You can use that driveway in
fact it would appear that they mostly use that driveway to get into their garage rather than
the front.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : That's how they access
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea so that's how they access that's how they get to their house
along that 25 foot easement.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : So we have a primary front yard
August 3,2023 Regular Meeting
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CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : and it looks like you should have a secondary front yard. I mean I
don't know it wasn't called out that way. What does the Notice say, not a conforming yard or
does it say
MARTIN FINNEGAN : Side yard
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Side yard, I guess that would be true even if it was a front yard
cause if you look at where the pool is it would be partially in the side yard and partially in a
front yard right.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : Right but my understanding of the rule is your primary front yard than
the
MEMBER DANTES : and the other side is a rear yard? So then you're saying that the proposed
pergola meets the accessory
MARTIN FINNEGAN : Completely conforming (inaudible)
MEMBER DANTES : So that's a rear yard line then that 15.4 foot setback is conforming?
MARTIN FINNEGAN : Yes
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : How high is the retaining wall? It just says retaining wall and it
looks like there's quite a few little steps to get up to it so I'm just wondering how high that
elevation is cause we don't have anything that shows that.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : (inaudible) the lot coverage.
MEMBER DANTES : It says elevation 29.3 on the patio and then it says elevation 25.6'outside
the patio.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's like a three foot.
MEMBER DANTES : Three and a half feet yea but then on the back it's elevation 31.8 on the
back of the for the-grass.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I just want to know what it's going to look like. I mean sometimes
we have these retaining walls here and the next thing we know you know the roads down
here and the wall is up here. It doesn't appear that it's going to be dramatic but I was
wondering
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : (inaudible) the pool sort of looked like it can be an infinity pool on
the long side facing the road it's like a four foot distance between the grade and the pool the
deck or patio.
MEMBER DANTES : It looks like it starts at 4 foot on the lower road side and then it goes back.
So then the proposed pavilion is going to higher than the pool so you're going to step down
from the pavilion down to the patio and down to the pool kind of?
MARTIN FINNEGAN : Yea I mean it's not going to be (inaudible) I think that there's going to be
some grading there.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think they're going to have to do some grading.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : It's a step down.
MARTIN_-FINNEGAN : No there's no step down oh on the side here yea going towards the
house.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Going towards the house there's some steps down.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Eric had said the proposed pavilion would be a step down.
MEMBER DANTES : It's going to have to be cause your elevation is 31.8 outside the pavilion
and then the patio elevation is 29.3 so if the pavilion is at 31.8 there's going to have to be
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Right but the pavilion is at 28.8
MEMBER DANTES : So it's going to lower than the grade?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : It's like one step, you're right it would be one foot down than the
patio.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yep
MEMBER DANTES : No the pavilion is if the pavilion is at 28.8 and the elevation of the patio is
29.3 then it's one step from the patio down to the pavilion and the pavilion
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It says the proposed patio elevation is 28.8 the same.
MEMBER DANTES : Where are you looking at that? I have 29 right here.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : I think it's the existing elevation
MEMBER DANTES : Oh and then they're going to grade it down to the patio?
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
MARTIN FINNEGAN : Anyway the pavilion is completely conforming to all setbacks there was
nothing called out for that. We're simply here just for the side yard for the pool the partial
side yard location and that was primarily because of the configuration of the house.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well we've all been out there you know we talked about whether
it's a second frontage or what but the right of way which is really how they access their house
even though the front of the house is facing Mill and Jackson they're coming in on that right
of way and pulling into their driveway and get into their garage that way. There is already in
the area of the pool the retaining wall in place a rock wall. It's just all grassy right now kind of
weedy area.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : I have pictures of all that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea it's not really visible to others.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : No it's not.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : it looks like you got mostly front yard everywhere you look.
MARTIN FINNEGAN : It's just an odd thing the Building Department was like pick which one
you want that's kind of the way they look at these things (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright well I don't have any other questions, do you guys have
any?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I do not have any questions.
MEMBER LEHNERT : I have none.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric
MEMBER DANTES : No
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN Well I'm going to make a motion to close the hearing reserve
decision to a later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER DANTES : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye thank you Martin. I'm going to make a motion to table the
Constance Levy application to the Special Meeting on August 17th. Is there a second?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye, let's just close the meeting and the recording. Motion to close
the hearing, is there a second?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye
August 3, 2023 Regular Meeting
CERTIFICATION
I Elizabeth Sakarellos, certify that the foregoing transcript of tape recorded
Public Hearings was prepared using required electronic transcription
equipment and is a true and accurate record of Hearings.
Signature
Elizabeth Sakarellos
DATE :August 14, 2023