HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-12/01/2022 Hearing TOWN OF SOUTHOLD ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK: STATE OF NEW YORK
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TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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Peconic Reacreation Center&Zoom Webinar Video Conferencing
970 Peconic Lane
Peconic, New York
December 1, 2022
10:20 A.M.
Board Members Present:
LESLIE KANES WEISMAN - Chairperson
PATRICIA ACAMPORA—Member
ERIC DANTES—Member
ROBERT LEHNERT— Member
NICHOLAS PLANAMENTO— Member
KIM FUENTES—Board Assistant
JOHN BURKE— Deputy Town Attorney
ELIZABETH SAKARELLOS—Senior Office Assistant '
DONNA WESTERMANN —Office Assistant
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
INDEX OF HEARINGS
Hearing Page
Decision for Vasilis and Christian Fthenakis #7559 4 - 5
Decision for Danny Vitale #7658SE 5 - 6
Branko and Margaret Peros#7705 6- 12
Michael Rendel #7706 12 - 14
Richard J. Savarese#7707 14- 20
Robert Yedid and Elyse Yedid #7708 21 - 27
Matt and Jessica Carballal #7709 27 - 29
Steve and Fortune Mandaro#7711 29 -42
Gary Trapanotto#7712 42 -44
Vasilios Papagianis and Theotokis T. Davas#7710 45 -47
Stephanie Mazur#7713 47-49
Barry X. Ball and Kimberly Van Lee#7714 49 -51
Harbes Family Estate, LLC#7715 51 - 53
KCE NY 26, LLC#7686 54-91
KCE NY 26, LLC#7684SE 54- 91
KCE NY26, LLC#7685 54- 91
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Good morning everyone and welcome to the Meeting of the
Zoning Board of Appeals for December 1, 2022. I'm going to make a motion to open up the
meeting of the Board of Appeals is there a second?
MEMBER DANTES : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. This meeting is being held both in person and on line Zoom so
I'm going to ask Liz to please let anyone who is on line know how they can participate.
SENIOR OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : Thank you Leslie, good morning everyone. If anyone
that is on Zoom would like to comment on a particular application I ask that you raise your
hand, I will see it and I will give you further instructions on how and when you will be able to
speak. If you are on Zoom and using a phone please press *9 to raise your hand. I see we have
one Call In User it says 1, is it possible for you to identify yourself. Also raise your hand by
pressing *9 and I'll let you know what you can do next. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you Liz. First matter is the Resolutions declaring applications
that are setback/dimensional/lot waiver/accessory apartment/bed and breakfast requests as
Type II Actions and not subject to environmental review pursuant to State Environmental
Quality Review (SEAR) 6 NYCRR Part 617.5 c including the following : Branko and Margaret
Peros, Michael Rendel, Richard J. Savarese, Robert. Yedid and Elyse Yedid, Matt and Jessica
Carballal, Steve and Fortune Mandaro, Gary Trapanotto, Vasilios Papagianis and Theotokis T.
Davas, Stephanie Mazur, Barry X. Ball and Kimberly Van.Lee and Harbes Family Estate, LLC. so
moved. Is there a second?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. SEQRA STATEMENT on KCE NY 26, LLC #7684SE, #7685,
#7686, action to construct a new Battery Energy Storage Facility to be declared by the
Planning Board as Lead Agency to be an Unlisted Action located at 10750 Oregon Rd. in
Cutchogue so moved. Is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. So there are two drafts to review and deliberate on.
Vasilis and Christina Fthenakis #7559. This is demolition and construct a
new single family dwelling (inaudible) in a side yard. The plans were amended after the first
hearing. Everybody has read this I assume.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Yes
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : This application has obtained Trustees approval for a non-
conforming bluff setback. They're demolishing an accessory structure (inaudible) as a sort of
an average setback on this one and it would located the proposed new structure pretty close
to the (inaudible) to the existing bluff based on the fact that 28.5 feet thank you based upon
the fact that there are other dwellings on either side that are closer. This Board believes that
front yard averaging is appropriate in terms of holding the character of the neighborhood
because who wants to see the whole block of houses there 5 feet from the side walk and then
all of a sudden a new house has to be 35 feet, it's gonna leave a big hole. However to do so on
a bluff which a naturally regulated feature use old code and old decisions pre-dating zoning as
a basis for determining an average bluff setback is something that our Board does not
support. So the other thing is that the applicant has lots of options about building a brand new
house as large as he wants with a conforming bluff setback or a far greater bluff setback. It's a
large lot, their existing house is set much closer to the road and he can even put it in a
location that's conforming which leaves the pool in a conforming location. Is there anything
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
else that the Board needs to say? It's pretty much accurately summarized. Alright so then Rob
you want to make a motion?
MEMBER LEHNERT : I make a motion to deny the amended application.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there a second on that motion?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. The next draft is for Gasper Vitale #7658SE. This is
an accessory apartment in an accessory structure. I'm going to hand this down to Rob, why
don't you summarize this for us.
MEMBER LEHNERT : This application is for an accessory apartment in an accessory structure.
It's a non-conforming residence, barn a shed. There's currently construction going on on the
property. There are no current C.O.'s issued at this time for the construction ongoing on the
property and we could not as a Board could not determine if the owner is actually if it's his
residence. We have driver's license showing P. 0. Boxes, Star Exemptions with P. 0. Boxes and
a propane delivery invoice. With that information and also there's a lot of it "as built" and the
"as built" stuff is not per recommendations of this Board. So this was written as a denial of a
Special Exception Permit.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anything else the Board wants to add to that summary?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Motion to deny is there a second?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
HEARING # 7705— BRANKO and MARGARET PEROS
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The first application before the Board is for Branko and Margaret
Peros #7705. This is a request for variances from Article III Section 280-15, Article XXIII Section
280-124 and the Building Inspector's June 3, 2022 Notice of Disapproval based on an
application for a permit to construct second floor additions to an existing single family
dwelling and to construct an accessory garage at 1) the accessory garage is located less than
the code required minimum front yard setback of 35 feet, 2) the addition to the single family
dwelling is located less than the code required minimum side yard setback of 10 feet, 3) more
than the code permitted maximum lot coverage of 20% located at 815 Rabbit Lane (adj. to
Marion Lake) in East Marion. Is someone here to represent the application? Please state for
the record your name.
BRANKO PEROS : Branko Peros and Margaret Peros.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let me summarize this. The single family dwelling addition has a
side yard setback of 2.7 feet where the code requires a minimum of 10 feet, this is on Marion
Lake. The accessory garage on a waterfront parcel has a front yard setback of 22 feet, the
code requires 35 foot minimum to meet the principle front yard setback and third the lot
coverage is proposed to be 22.7% where the code permitted maximum is 20%. What would
you like to add, what would you like to tell us about your application?
BRANKO PEROS : (inaudible) at least the building you know the garage there's a building there
already and they actually are pushing it back another 7 feet. There's a cottage there already
and it's (inaudible). The other one the side yard there's no one there's an empty lot there
unbuildable lot the right side and there's a half a dormer on the house already it's in bad
shape but it's there.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Donna if you put the survey up this way everyone can see it.
BRANKO PEROS : Do you have a picture of the existing building?
OFFICE ASSISTANT WESTERMANN :There's existing and proposed.
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MEMBER DANTES : I understand you have an existing non-conforming side yard setback but
why not design where you have the garage in a code conforming location and maintain a code
conforming lot coverage?
BRANKO PEROS : What do you mean?
MEMBER DANTES : Why not design your garage to be code conforming, why design one that
needs a variance?
BRANKO PEROS : The building there now I mean the cottage (inaudible) so we
MEMBER DANTES : Does it have a C.O?
BRANKO PEROS : Yes it does. Yes we want to take it up when Sandy went through it
(inaudible) the ground was and now I think it's 15 feet from the road so I want to pull back
another 7 feet you can't go any further back because then it will be almost (inaudible). It will
be like 22 feet from the road and they do originally if you look at the block fifty percent of the
block is not 35 feet it's less than 10 feet, fifty percent of Rabbit Lane. Originally that's what
they told us (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :There is a Trustees Permit which was (inaudible) 2016.
BRANKO PEROS : Yeah we got approval from there but they never told us
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : 10 foot wide non-turf buffer.
BRANKO PEROS : (inaudible) and they gave us a permit
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : They're putting in a new IA system which you would have to do
now for the Department of Health.
BRAN KO PEROS : I think that we applied already.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Particularly that close to wetlands and you know Marion Lake and
all of that it's necessary.
BRANKO PEROS : The only thing is the side, the side yard but there's an unbuildable lot right
next to us there's nothing there.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Isn't that the lot that your neighbor across the street owns, we had
a variance for his house construction and he was proposing possibly to put an accessory
garage on that and keeping the easement in perpetuity.
BRANKO PEROS : Exactly yep.
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MARGARET PEROS : Neither one of the neighbors object to this.
BRANKO PEROS : and another thing the square footage we have another (inaudible) another
shed on the property that's the 8 by 8 the square footage comes to (inaudible) I can take that
out if I get the garaged approved I can take 60 sq.ft. off. I don't want to but
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What are you talking about the shed?
BRANKO PEROS : Yeah
MEMBER ACAMPORA :The shed in the back.
BRANKO PEROS :There's two sheds (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don't even think the shed is calculated into that lot coverage I
think it's just your(inaudible)
BRANKO PEROS :' (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Only a small shed 67 sq.ft.
BRANKO PEROS : (inaudible) sq. ft. right now the proposed.stuff 50 feet. So I can take the shed
out and bring it back to (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I wonder what that would reduce the lot coverage by.
BRANKO PEROS : It's 8 x 8, 64 sq. ft. and we're missing 13 1 think. I don't know
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yeah it's pretty small now.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Would you consider reducing the size of the existing deck to help
reduce the overall lot coverage?Would you make the plan more in conformance?
BRANKO PEROS : The deck, I mean if you see the deck it's an angle it's the shape I mean going
to help us?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Well it would remove one of the variance requests.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : He's rather take the shed.
BRANKO PEROS : I can take 60 sq. ft. off a shed, take the shed out the 64 sq. ft.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : And while 1 have you, are you proposing new sanitary?
BRANKO PEROS : (inaudible) but I guess we have to apply to
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MARGARET PEROS : We have applied for grants but we haven't heard yet. (inaudible) weren't
told to put one in.
BRANKO PEROS : (inaudible)just in case.
MEMBER DANTES : How many bedrooms to you propose to have?
BRANKO PEROS : We have three bedrooms right now, there's two bedrooms downstairs and
our bedroom upstairs that's the bedroom upstairs so we want to give them (inaudible) the
other two up.
MEMBER DANTES : So you're not changing the bedroom count?
BRANKO PEROS : We're not changing anything. We're not expanding (inaudible) except the
garage. There's a half a dormer there already that's in bad shape. (inaudible) have to we tried
everything so I don't know.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So one other question if I may, my understanding is that your flood
zone is AE6 so for the effort it's a FEMA flood zone why wouldn't you raise the house
(inaudible).
BRANKO PEROS : We're up 3 feet already I mean I (inaudible)
MARGARET BRANKO : Sandy came we were (inaudible)
BRANKO PEROS : We're 3 feet up high already except that cottage is on the floor.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well also quite frankly the less you can raise it the better because
while remaining safe because people that are coming in with enormous elevations as a
consequence of FEMA are erratically changing the visual appearance of neighborhoods.
Dwellings look extremely overbuilt for the size of the lot and
BRANKO PEROS : I mean they raised a few now (inaudible)there's no way.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Trust me I get it.
BRANKO PEROS : Like I said I will take the shed out, I can't move the garage. If I move the
garage back I can't (inaudible) it will be right (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay let me see if there's does the Board have any other questions
at this time?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No questions.,
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay let's see if there's anyone in the audience who wants to
address the application.
RICHARD SAVARESE : What's 10
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh IA; it's an innovative alternative wastewater treatment system.
It's a new type of sanitary system instead of the old septic systems that were much more
nitrogen polluting. The Department of Health Services are now requiring I think it was as of
June or something. It was year ago July that all new sanitary systems will be designed that
way and that's just to you know in future prevent additional water quality pollution. It's not
pertaining specifically to their application it's when you see major new construction or
additions or adding bedrooms they're going to have to upgrade their sanitary systems.
BRAN KO PEROS : I mean do we have to right away?
MARGARET PEROS : Since we're not adding any bedrooms.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The Department of Health will make that decision. I think the
Trustees did the Trustees put that in their permit? They didn't put that in. Well usually when
it's a substantial renovation so even if it's not another bedroom
BRANKO PEROS : (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yeah because you know these things are wearing out, all of our
septic systems everywhere is wearing out. As a consequence when they're replaced we have
to replace them with the newest technology that's available which makes sense kind of a
financial burden its"a lot more money that what the old septic ring was but we're running out
of water quality and we have to be very cognizant and careful. Anything else from the Board
or anyone in the audience? Is there anyone on Zoom Liz? Okay this is LWRP maybe you can
address this, we have a legal requirement per code called the Local Waterfront Revitalization
Recommendation and we have our coordinator who is a Planner named Mark Terry, anything
that's on waterfront or wetland any kind of actually regulated feature he will write up a report
to us. This report says what you're proposing is inconsistent with the plan because the plan
attempts to minimize losses of human life and structures with flooding and erosion hazards
let's see what else he's saying. The setback relief indicates that the lot is being overdeveloped
in an environmentally sensitive coastal area. The structure is located within FEMA flood zone
AE elevation 6. The proposed 22% lot coverage on the parcel is contrary to preventing loss to
structures in hazardous areas. Expansion of additional structures within these areas are
subject to repetitive loss from storm surges and flooding and should be avoided or minimized.
Now what that means is, he finds what you're proposing to be overdevelopment on a smaller
parcel than what the size you're proposing will accommodate. In a nut shell unless we can find
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
ways to mitigate those problems we can't approve anything because we can only approve
things this Board that we can find consistent with the LWRP. He says its inconsistent. One of
the things that will be helpful to you is that there is a Trustees approval.
BRANKO PEROS : We have Trustees approval.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I said that will be helpful in part as mitigation alright.
BRANKO PEROS : We're not expanding, we're not expanding the square footage. If you go
back we're not expanding not even an inch any square footage.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You're (inaudible) floor is not any larger than what it already is, is
that what you're saying?
BRANKO PEROS : Yes right now it's a half a dormer and just adding two (inaudible) to the
existing house.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright so you're addition in internal it's interior.
BRANKO PEROS : Exactly.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I'm just trying to make sure (inaudible) accurately.
BRANKO PEROS : Before we started all this I went to the Building Department and I asked
them you know they said there should be no problem so I went ahead.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Understand
BRANKO PEROS : We had the Trustees that came to the house (inaudible) they said you should
have no problem what you're asking us.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well I'm not suggesting any conclusion, I'm simply trying to make
sure you understand the context of this decision that's all.
BRANKO PEROS : I understand I'm a contractor I understand (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :That's what I thought, you're going over an existing
BRANKO PEROS : over the (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You are expanding the second floor space.
BRANKO PEROS : Right the whole second I have to rebuild. Right now there's a half a dormer
there it's in very, very bad shape.
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MARGARET PEROS : We have leaks (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright, anything else from the Board at this time? Is there anyone
else in the audience, anyone on Zoom Liz? Motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a
later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye, we should have a decision at our next meeting in two weeks.
HEARING#7706—MICHAEL RENDEL
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Michael Rendel #7706.
This is a request for variances from Article XXIII Section 280-124 and the Building Inspector's
July 21, 2022 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a permit to legalize an "as
built" front stoop and rear deck attached to an existing single family dwelling at 1) located less
than the code required minimum front yard setback of 35 feet, 2) located less than the code
required minimum rear yard setback of 35 feet located at 130 West Lake Drive (adj. to Little
Peconic Bay) in Southold. Let me just put into the record that we're looking at a stoop with a
front yard setback of 28.5 feet, the code requiring a minimum of 35 and a rear deck at 32.6
setback with 35 the code requiring minimum. We have an LWRP exemption recommendation
and they have a Trustees permit dated April 13, 2022 Certificate of Compliance for the rear
deck at 32.6 foot landward of a permitted timber bulkhead and did submit prior decisions by
the Board. Is there anything I missed?
MIKE KIMACK : No you did not. I just would like to (inaudible) on a few of those priors that are
very specific to my client who is in the audience, Mr. Rendel is here. I know these are relevant
and important to your decisions. In many respects if you take a look at my submittal number
two and number four which are one of which are adjacent to the applicant and the other
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
which is one over number two, basically approving the construction with deck"addition no less
than 33 feet from the bulkhead which pretty much aligns with Mr. Rendel's request. Then
number four was the approval to construct a new porch with front yard setback of 27 feet
where we're asking for 28.5. (inaudible) plus if you visited the site (inaudible) much isolated
(inaudible) bluff and heavily landscaped. I know you got a lot on your agenda, is there
anything else that I can add that's very specific to the (inaudible). It was an (inaudible)
responsibility(inaudible).
MEMBER DANTES : Would you accept a condition that the stoop and the deck remain open to
the sky and cannot be enclosed?
MIKE KIMACK : Yes
MR. RENDEL: Does that mean in terms of like putting on
MEMBER DANTES : You can't put (inaudible) or cover it over.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Which is basically it's not an uncommon condition. When rear yard
decks, his stoop is a stoop I mean that's hardly a problem no one is•going to close in a stoop
unless you're going to add onto the front of your house. On a deck typically the mass is a lot
less of a flat surface than if you were to build a big porch on top of it with a non-conforming
setback where maybe the neighbor behind may have more-of an impact so typically we will
say okay for the setback, okay for the deck but don't enclose it because that's a much bigger
kind'of variance.
MR. RENDEL: How about a retractable awning is that something
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's fine. Anybody else in the audience? Liz is there anybody on
Zoom?Anything else from the Board?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I just want to point to one thing.The Notice of Disapproval says 28.5
feet front yard setback but the survey shows 28.61 just wanted to share that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything else from anybody? Okay motion to close the hearing
reserve decision to a later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER DANTES : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN ': All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MEMBER LEHNERT:Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye, we'll have a decision in two weeks.
HEARING#7707—RICHARD J. SAVARESE
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Richard J. Savarese
#7707. This is a request for variances from Article XXIII Section 280-124 and the Building
Inspector's July 7, 2022 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a permit to legalize
an "as built" deck addition with a pergola attached to an existing single family dwelling at 1)
located less than the code required minimum side yard setback of 10 feet, 2) located less than
the code required minimum combined side yard setback of 25 feet located at 2575 Old
Orchard Rd. (adj. to Orient Harbor) in East Marion. So an "as built" deck addition with a single
side yard setback at 2.2 feet the code requiring a minimum of 10, a combined side yard
setback of(inaudible) the code requiring a minimum of 25 feet and the deck with pergola was
expanded from the approved 16 by 16 foot to 22 foot 2 X inches by 16 based upon this
Trustees permit of 8.3 by 6 December 11, 2013. Mike we also have .some ZBA priors in the
area submitted by you and let's see I guess in 2010 ZBA also granted an amended setback
relief for a demo and new single family dwelling.
MIKE KIMACK : Yes that is correct. Michael Kimack on behalf of the applicant who is in the
audience Mr. and Mrs. Savarese. These are very narrow lots to begin with the whole
neighborhood pretty much indicative of the fact that it's difficult to build anything that's going
to be conforming. Obviously the house was not it was granted to be that 2.2 feet where the
original house was but it demo'd and they had a new house put up. They did have as of right
the 16 by 16 recognized the need to since the house is very small their outdoor activities were
such that the deck became an essential component for their enjoyment. They basically
squared it off with the house which was 22.6 1 believe wide and they basically increased it
equals on both sides I think there was 98 sq. ft. overall from the original one so there was
about 48 sq. ft. added to both sides about 2 % feet by 16 roughly. The deck overall did not
come any more farther and they kept 16 foot but widened enough to match the width of the
house primarily.There are some cases that you have decided in that particular area. If you can
take a look at the plan basically the one that's number one which is a few lots pretty much
over from there. He did construct a new story addition having side yard setbacks of 3.4 and 12
feet combined side yards to 15.4. In number two which is actually which was theirs primarily 1
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
just put it in there because that was the approval for the front yard setback of 3.3 and a rear
yard setback of 3.3 on theirs. It was also in the side yards that which were constructed and
replaced at the present time. Number three, (inaudible) retaining wall 1 foot from the side
yard setback. It's indicative of the fact that the lots are long and straight to begin with very
narrow and very long. The house if you take a look at the drawing over there the site plan
you'll see that the house itself basically comes very, very close to the property line 2.2 and the
deck extends off of that. The pergola was added on there simply to be able to get some relief
from the sun when they're out there and I don't think the pergola in and of itself is significant
and it's doesn't it's back dropped by the house itself and from a visual point of view it doesn't
attract from that area. Richard did you want to add anything to that?Any questions from you?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes actually Mark pointed out to us that first of all at sometime
around 2015 the beach was cleared and that now makes out of compliance with wetland
permit#7146 you might have to ask the Trustees for a copy of that permit unless you can get
it for us Mike.
MIKE KIMACK : I can get a copy I'll deliver it.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's expired, that permit is apparently expired. The beach
protection in a new permit I think the new permit is 8356 which actually locates an IA system
in a flood zone.
MIKE KIMACK : Well the system in Zone X
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yeah but there really isn't any other choice available.
MIKE KIMACK : No if you can see the line the flood zone line comes in front of it you see
where the proposed is but then it wraps around picks up the house on the back side. That was
the only place for it but it's in the X Zone and that's in place the system. I will get you a copy of
that particular
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yeah we're going to need I don't think we have the most current
Trustees permit do we?
MIKE KIMACK : I thought I gave you a copy of that in the packets.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have one the old one for sure but•I think
MIKE KIMACK : You're going to need (inaudible) the one you pointed out is older. I think the
number was (inaudible) I will get a copy of that and will get it to the office.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Which permit is 7146?
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MIKE KIMACK : That's the one I think you referenced that was the beach maintenance.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We need to have a look because there might need to be some
buffering or some
MIKE KIMACK : That would have gone back to (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What we're trying to do is you know in order to do what you've
done you needed permission from the Trustees which I'm sure you know. You got more than
one permission from the Trustees. What we're trying to do is find out whether you're in
compliance with the permission you got. It would appear the LWRP Coordinator says that you
cleared some stuff off the beach
RICHARD SAVARESE : No Sandy (inaudible) it wiped the house
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Why don't you get up and talk into the mic. We're doing this
because we're recording it and we have to do a transcription a written transcription of all
these hearings so we have to make sure that everyone that commented is heard so that we
can do a transcription.
RICHARD SAVARESE : Sandy wiped out the house, wiped out the beach, wiped out the house,
wiped out twenty feet of feet of (inaudible) which I didn't replace. There's been no beach
clearing (inaudible) trying to build it back up. (inaudible) after Sandy I'm trying to replace it.
There's no beach clean up after Sandy that's for sure cause Sandy wiped out everything,
wiped the house off the foundation. I had to rebuild, keeping the same size, the deck I was
told would be okay to expand (inaudible). What happened just (inaudible) I was told I would
have no problem in taking it down.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don't know who keeps telling people that doing things that they
have no legal right to do is fine but they're not doing property owners a favor really not.
Expansion of a non-conformity the bottom line is you got permission to build it but you didn't
get permission to expand it because the only reason you needed permission was to do what's
conforming to the code. So if you enlarge a non-conformity then that's why you're here.
RICHARD SAVARESE : I just was confused about beach cleanup.
MIKE KIMACK : I'll get a copy of that I didn't focus on that. I'll touch base with Trustees
because obviously it's in their purview and see whether or not they require anything that had
(inaudible). I will get you a copy but I will also follow up with the Trustees cause I think that's
basically where the responsibility lays with that.
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December,1, 2022 Regular,Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything else from anybody in the audience? Yes please come to
the mic.
SUZANNE HAND : Hi my name is Suzanne Hand and I got a call this morning asking to deliver
this letter to the Board. The person that was planning to appear had a family medical
emergency.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you want to read that into the record or do you want to just
give it to us? I better read some of this into the record because that way we can .address it
here rather than after the fact. This is from a member of the Board of Directors of Gardiners
Bay Estates Homeowners Association he was going to appear on behalf of the association with
respect to your application to allow for an already constructed deck expansion with a pergola.
The Board of Directors believes it's important that the Members of the ZBA be aware that the
survey submitted therewith page fifty four of the application shows numerous encroachments
onto the association's property including but not limited to the crushed shell driveway, timber
retaining wall and stone steps. The association did not consent to or permit the applicants to
erect any of the structures or items on its property. The location of these items and property
boundaries were confirmed by the association's surveyor. The association were taking
separate action against Mr. and Mrs. Savarese if all encroachments are not removed and the
association's property restored. I'm reading it because I'd like you to address these concerns if
you can or if you will or Mike can do it on your behalf.
MIKE KIMACK : We both can, I think from the survey you have basically you can see the next
door which is the association property there are structures on that and I'll let Mr. Savarese
address that,
RICHARD SAVARESE : This house has been there pre-1929, it was an old fishing shack and
hand built by fishermen it's that over Orient Harbor for a number of years God.knows how. It
was lodged over before 1929 to its current location placed on land and barged over. It was
added on three time for total square footage a little bit more than 500 sq. ft. that's what
we're talking about. Our living space is a little over 500 sq. ft. We needed this extra space with
the deck. The survey that'was just done I had no idea what the boundaries were, I have the
neighbor eight inches away from me who also sent a letter in which I'll give the Board. He
tried to make it but he was in court this morning too. I had no idea of boundaries. I eyeballed
it and assumed where they were, other than looking at the survey I had no idea and I
maintained my property and the association=s property for over twenty one years. I
maintained that spot of land which is (inaudible). My house is adjacent to the public
association right of way and I'm part of that association too that land 'is also mine also so I'm
fighting against myself. It's like two feet.
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What exactly what structures okay what structures that you
RICHARD SAVARESE : Vegetation plants to make it look good and it's been looking good for
twenty years. He built some garage which I wasn't happy about cause it took away but I don't
know why people would want to look at my house rather than greenery but I guess they do.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Are there any physical structures in there?
MIKE KIMACK : No
RICHARD SAVARESE : It's just plants and plant pots and a flagpole that's two feet off my
property that is at the highest point of the beach and that's why I placed the flagpole there.
They want me to remove everything I'll remove everything. I will stop maintaining it also.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You're talking about (inaudible) and the stairs.
MIKE KIMACK : I would suggest that the structures on the adjoining piece of property are
really not part of it subject to the application it really is between the Gardiners Bay
Association and Mr. Savarese.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well I just thought it would be an appropriate thing since it's part
of our public record to give you an opportunity to address it if you wanted to.
MIKE KIMACK : I can understand why Gardiners Bay Association and to be open and fair I also
represent Gardiners Bay Association. I'm doing their docks
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I was going to say talk about a conflict of interest.
MIKE KIMACK : Well it's their dock it's the association's dock that I'm doing.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Whose stairs are those?
RICHARD SAVARESE : Can I speak again concerning this? In order to get a building permit to
rebuild the house I had to put in a new septic system. They wouldn't allow the little septic
system that I had in front of the house to be used. I had to move it to the back of the house
closer to the bay further away from the canal where it was previously but closer to the bay in
the back yard past the deck in order to meet in order to get a building permit. It cost me
twelve thousand dollars to put in this septic system, five leeching pools I had to put in a
retaining wall to keep it in after building up three and a half feet. I had to put a retaining wall
in which that's where the steps come in it's like past that retaining wall that was only access
to the back of.the house other than you know putting a bridge over the retaining wall for the
septic system it was all because of the system.
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So you have an IA system.
MEMBER DANTES : No this is (inaudible) before 1973 so it's before the IA
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So it's still a leeching system, leeching pools.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Leeching pools so they spread it out.
MIKE KIMACK : It's what they call an alternative system basically just going eight foot diameter
to twelve foot deep.
MEMBER DANTES : But then the retaining wall is on the neighbor's property.
RICHARD SAVARESE : No the retaining wall the steps are.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : (inaudible) retaining wall it's on the homeowners association with
the stairs and the (inaudible) this is the neighboring property.
RICHARD SAVARESE : No that's my property. Visit and see
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have, we've been to your property and we've seen your home,
we've seen the right of way, we do that for every public hearing the Board inspects properties
regularly and on everything that comes before the Board before the hearing. That's the only
what that we really know the character of the neighborhood you can't tell on paper so we
drive around and we look at the area, we look at the property and we see how close a
neighbor might be and these are all things we consider when we make determinations.
Anything else Mike? Member Planamento was pointing out that there is probably an error in
the determination by the Building Department of side yard setbacks because you have one
setback they combined the 8.9 feet with the 2.2 feet Mike are you looking at that? Well if you
go you know toward the street you're going to find that the corner of the house is 4 foot to
the property line so it really should have been 4 feet and 2.2 feet. Doesn't that make sense to
you?
MIKE KIMACK : I'm looking at that. Not if you're starting at the deck going seaward.
MEMBER LEHNERT : We're just talking about the deck.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh that's why then alright okay cause they're not looking at the
house it's only the as built deck so that's what they're looking at the combined for the deck
not the house.That makes it clear yeah.
MIKE KIMACK : That's why it was somewhat close to some of the a prior decisions that I had in
terms of the (inaudible)
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, anybody on Zoom?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Leslie I have one question, Mike the pergola over the deck we usually
when (inaudible) even regular decks we leave them open to the sky above.
MIKE KIMACK : Well a pergola basically is not a closed structure. We would certainly say it
would not be more than what it already is the pergola would not be enclosed with a roofline
or nothing like that, that would be acceptable. As the one before we would agree that it
would not be porched over and it would remain open to the sky other than the fact that is has
a pergola right now but there is some limitation of light but not very much but it would not be
roofed over or porched over.
RICHARD SAVARESE : (inaudible) with Sandy I had to lose a tree that gave me shade
(inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : If you want to speak which is fine you need to be using the mic
standing there. A pergola is an open structure it's a breeze (inaudible) it's to just ward off
some excessive sun that's all. Like what I was explaining before, you've got a deck it's one
think if you put a porch on top of it it's a much greater thing. If you enclose a pergola then it
becomes a room so that's why the Board asks those questions. So hearing no further
questions or comments I'm going to make a motion to close the hearing subject to receipt of
updated Trustee information. Is there a second?
MEMBER DANTES : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye, motion to recess for two minutes.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO :Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :'Aye. Motion to reconvene.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye ;
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye
HEARING#7708—ROBERT YEDID and ELYSE YEDID
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Robert Yedid and Elyse
Yedid #7708. This is a request for a variance from Article XXIII Section 280-124 and the
Building Inspector's July 7, 2022 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a permit to
reconstruct an accessory in-ground swimming pool at 1) more than the code permitted
maximum lot coverage of 20% located at 230 Hipppodrome Drive in Southold. This is a
proposal for a reduced sized swimming pool with lot coverage of 22.8%the code permitting a
maximum of 20%. We have obviously a prior.denial #7309 in February 20, 2020 for 25.9% lot
coverage for an "as built" pool and shed..The shed having a 3 foot rear yard. and side yard
setback, the code requiring 5 feet. You're no proposing to,eliminate the shed?
PAT MOORE : Yes that was originally offered but now for sure it's in part of this application
without a.shed. We are also including a new sanitary system for the front of the house. My
client has received a grant the ten thousand dollar grant to put in a new system so they are
proceeding with that process. Even though the poo,itself is indirectly affecting the sanitary so.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Pat how are they going to go about reducing the size of the
(inaudible)?.What kind of pool is it, is it a gunite, vinyl what's the? ,
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
PAT MOORE : Yeah I was asking that same question, the existing pool is a vinyl pool so the
contractor is when we were coming back to consider a functional pool that would work for
them and not completely destroy cause it's excavated earth the proposal is to cut back from
both ends of the pool. It essentially removes the stairs that go into the pool on the one end of
it is being cut back and then I twisted their arm a little more and asked for additional cutbacks
so it was cutting back from both ends of the pool. So that brings it down to the 2.8 lot
coverage so there are no other accessory structures other than the pool itself that would still
have a functional usable pool.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So the pool is being reduced to 20 by 30?
PAT MOORE : Correct. The lot coverage that we exceed with respect to 20% lot coverage is
only 383.18 sq. ft. so that is the amount of our excess lot coverage.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let's see what the Board has to say. We do have eight letters of
support submitted, they are it's more like a petition because they're all the same letters.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Form letter.
PAT MOORE : Well you're asking a neighbor and you know it's sometimes difficult to get
support and that was very helpful so. I mean people would rather just not do anything, their
support is not to object.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay let's see if the Board has any questions on this, where's the
pool dry well?
PAT MOORE : Oh it's do you remember where the dry well is? There is a pool dry well there
it's on the side of the house.
ELYSE YEDID : Elyse Yedid. If I remember correctly it's on the side of the house. We put in a
new cement drywell. We had somebody come and install it because the pool contractor didn't
do it so we had somebody else do it. On the form letter, we wrote the form letter because we
didn't want to inconvenience the neighbors. So we said if you want to sign it sign it, if you
don't, don't and if you want to make your own letter make your own letter but everyone who
signed it was like thank you so much for doing the letter because we didn't want to have to
write the letter, we just are supporting you.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Mrs. Yedid the form letters is this the same letters that were used in
your last application?
ELYSE YEDID : Yes, same names there's nobody different.
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I'm just commenting cause the final sentence says that the request
is to allow you to keep the pool not for the installation of a pool. So this was the letter that
was used in the last application not the current.
ELYSE YEDID : No but if you I'm sure you remember from before we had no idea we couldn't
put in a pool, the realtor and the pool contractor both said that our survey indicated that we
had plenty of space for the pool and the size so we who are new to this town we didn't even
know we needed the permit. Our pool contractor said I've been working here for thirty years
and you go the permit, I'm getting it don't you think about it. So we didn't and
MEMBER PLANAMENTO It's a little bit different than the testimony offered but we've
already been through that so
ELYSE YEDID : Yeah we've already been through that.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : It'clearly stated (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Could you show us on this survey where you think the dry well is?
PAT MOORE : Keeping in mind that to get a building permit we have to show a dry well so.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh it's a storm drain.
PAT MOORE : It's part of the Building Department process.
MEMBER DANTES : We-can figure this out.
PAT MOORE : Yeah I mean if you condition a dry well we have to put I mean it's the, code
already so it's not
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's going to have to be in there.
PAT MOORE : Exactly, do you have any other questions or may I proceed with some additional
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Go ahead.
PAT MOORE : Thank you. My initial application to the Board is pretty extensive, pretty I hope
thorough and it provides variances that"have been granted in this neighborhood but in
particular because Beixedon there are pools, you see the poolsfrom the aerial photographs
but they must have been approved without variances cause there aren't that many variances
in Beixedon itself, there's variances for larger houses but I only listed the variances of
Beixedon that I could locate. However as far as the character of the community, the Willow
Point subdivision is the most as'the crow flies you can see that it's the same body of water it's
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
very similar subdivision similarly sized lots they're all quarter acre lots. That community and
my analysis maybe came to a very simplistic conclusion which is that development was a lot of
wealthier individuals, Beixedon is a very old established community a lot of more modest
originally modest homes not anymore now everybody is expensive. But at the time when the
Willow Point subdivision was being developed there are numerous variances that were
required in that area because of the size of the lots. So I provided for you in my record a
number of variances that were approved on Willow Point Rd. primarily. There were four, five
variances in Willow Point Rd. and if you look at the analysis of those variances they could very
easily be applicable to the Beixedon Estates subdivision. So that was provided for you already
in written format on my application. There has been some change since six months ago when
this application was put in and I wanted to be able to go over the immediate the contiguous
abutting neighbors because the impact of a swimming pool which is below grade nobody sees
it from the street so nobody would know that there's a pool or no pool from the street side.
The adjacent owner and this is my outline that I gave and I tried to do it as simple as possible,
which is identifying there are three abutting property owners, there is a parcel to the east
which is Hayfer and that is lot 30. There is a parcel on the west that's Shannon that's lot 24
and then the lot that is contiguous to the Yedid rear yard and that's Sloan. So when I looked at
the abutting property owners two of the three abutting property owners have swimming
pools. Hayfer was a swimming pool that's been in place there for quite some time. That parcel
faces Ashomarmaque Rd. so the rear yard is contiguous to the Yedid property. That is a
double sized lot but the pool is nonetheless in the back yard and it's contiguous. On the back
of the property probably the most relevant application that occurred since the first
application was originally submitted the Sloan application and that is a variance that was
granted only four months ago. The Sloan property is interesting, they did a beautiful job and
I'm pointing out these properties it's Yedid has no problem whatsoever with their neighbors,
there's never been any ill will or a bad word between them. These are factual analysis that I
use for purposes of this variance. So if a neighbor is listening or reads the transcript I don't
want it to be perceived that there is any opposition or objections in any way. In any case, of
the three abutting properties there are accessory structures which are on all three properties
and I give you the attachments of the permits and photographs. Also the three parcels have
pre-existing non-conforming structures to them. Finally more importantly the Sloan
application, they did a beautiful job expanding the house they put a second floor on the house
but you can see from the photographs that I attached to this packet and from your own
inspections the Sloan property the rear yard is abutting the Yedid property or the side yard,
side and rear and they built a second floor a large semi-covered with a pergola deck and the
deck is entirely you know facing the Yedid property so that has much more impact than a
pool. The pool they're putting in certainly has no impact but if you think about impact on
neighbors a second story or above ground structures always have more impact than below
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
grade at grade structures. In fact many of your variance decisions recite that, that you when
you're analyzing the variances that are being proposed recognizing that pool variances
oftentimes relate to lot coverage or setbacks but they don't impact neighbors directly because
it doesn't impact their privacy. When you went and observed the Sloan property one of things
you had the Sloan property has a very large and this is where my attachment may be helpful
which is if you look at the first page is an overall aerial that I identify the location of the
properties, then I've attached after Exhibit 1, Al that's what the Yedid property looks at. So
from the pool you can see that the Sloan property has a large pre-existing in the sense that it
has a permit and it pre-dated per regulations an accessory building that when it was approved
in sometime in the sixties they put in a full bathroom. However it was not intended to be
habitable space, nevertheless it was heated, it had air-conditioning it had a full bathroom and
we know for a fact because they're neighbors that it was occupied. When the Board went to
see the property when they applied for the variance for the pool and also for a variance for I
think the shed there was a recognition that there was a violation there and part of the
conditions were to take part of that or take a portion of that structure, legalize it with the pool
convert it to a pool house. Now the pool house code puts limitations on the size, it also has
limitations it can't be central air-conditioned it can't be heated and it can't have a full
bathroom. To a certain extent that would be up to the Building Department to determine
what of the pre-existing C.O. that was issued will be relevant and be permitted to remain
when that structure is I want to say legalized. Does any of this sound familiar to you it's only
four months ago but
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :.Actually we are very familiar with it and you just submitted a very
dense, very detailed memorandum with exhibits indicating character of the neighborhood
fundamentally. With all due respect we are running a little bit behind this morning and
because we have everything in writing I don't want to cut 'yo.0 off, if there is something
different additional that you want to mention that's fine but I think the Board has all of your
information in writing so we can certainly thoroughly review that but please feel free to add
something additional if you wish because we know these prior variances very well.
PAT MOORE : I will defer to my submission but I wanted to be sure that you understood it
because it was somewhat I tried to make it as simplistic as possible and what I have attached
here are the Building Department records so that it's not based on exterior observation from
the road it's based on documentation by the town. I also ask that the transcript of the Sloan
application be made part of your record. Again you didn't need a copy of it I gave it to Kim to
incorporate because it is a town record. You obviously know the transcript however for the
purposes of this record I wanted to be sure that it was made part of this application. One
thing that I noticed when I went to post, there is a lock box on the front door and I come on
up cause I'll need you to testify. One thing I asked immediately I said, 000h lock box why is
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
this house rented? No and I don't want any of you to come to that conclusion because
sometimes after the hearing there are conclusions drawn from something that's seen. There's
a lock box there, they have not been able to rent because of the open technically, an open
violation. The pool can't get.a C.O. so therefore you can't rent because it's a liability. I'm going
to have her testify to' that effect so that it's not only coming from me as testimony it's
coming directly from the client. I also want to,point out that this has been an extremely
anxious very stressful process that has resulted in a lot of litigation costs. They have not been
able to get a rental permit so clearly that's one negative of having a violation and an issue that
can't get resolved. The cost of cutting back this pool is also going to be a significant expense.
So the reason we're here is because it was suggested that as a settlement which we were told
the Board would not accept a settlement and therefore we were advised through litigation
counsel and this is third party to me to put in this application. So we put in this application
with what we hope will be an approvable application with a reasonable request for a lot
coverage that is relatively small lot coverage request. Put on the record if you would,'do you
rent and why is there a lock box?
ELYSE YEDID : I do not rent because I don't have the permit of which I did apply for several
years ago and that's when we realized that the, pool wasn't supposed to be there. We have
somebody come pretty much every week.when we're not physically there because both
myself and my husband work in New York and come out on weekends. So we have somebody
come in to check the house to ensure that the pipes don't freeze or there's not a problem
within the house and we pay him to assist us because we're not physically there. So that is
why the lock box is there to have somebody help maintain the home when we're not present.
PAT MOORE : Just by the name Mr. Santacroce
ELYSE YEDID : Yes Mr. Santacroce I believe he used to work here in Southold as the Chief of
Police for many years and he does this now after retirement to help people in the community.
So he has other people, we were recommended by other people within the community. He's a
very sweet nice man whose very, very helpful.
PAT MOORE : I believe that you have a pretty extensive record. I don't know if there's any
questions that the Board has that we can address and if not I will rely on the record.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything from anybody?
MEMBER DANTES : No
MEMBER L-EHNERT : No
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anyone else in the audience wishing to address the application? Is
there anybody on Zoom Liz? Motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is
there a second?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES.: Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT :Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye
HEARING#7709—MATT and JESSICA CARBALLAL
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Matt and Jessica
Carballal #7709. This is a request for a variance from Article XXIII Section 280-124 and the
Building Inspector's July 21, 2022 Notice of:Disapproval based on an application for a permit
to construct a screened patio addition attached to a single family dwelling at 1) located less
than the code required minimum rear yard setback of 35 feet located at 450 Bay Haven Lane
in Southold.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Good morning Board. We are proposing a screened porch, it is
extending out of the rear of the home 13 feet. Honestly the 13 feet is to allow for a table and
room to like walk around the chairs and it created that need for the relief.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We're looking at a rear yard setback of 30.6 feet.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : That's correct with a 35 foot requirement.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So the deck is there and you're going to have to make it a little bit
deeper to 33.5.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Correct, currently there is an on deck that is in line with the
existing above grade wood deck. The proposal would keep the screen porch would still be on-
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
grade but obviously would have the you know the walls and the screens and the roof
covering. Again 13 feet was not arbitrary it was really thought about with like a table and
getting around with chairs and so on. That's where you know I really tried not to go past 30
figuring the request. So we're 4.4 feet past the 35 foot rear yard setback.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well you know we've all been out there, the site is heavily
screened with large evergreens.
MEMBER DANTES : You don't plan on putting AC on the deck or any storm windows?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : No sir.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The rear yard is also screened with a picket fence. Pat anything
from you?
MEMBER ACAMORA : No
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Nick
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : No, I did want to just make one comment and I don't know if it's in
the packet or not I did not see it at least in my packet but there's no I didn't see any
Certificate of Occupancy on the air-conditioning the compressor was there and that's
something that the Building Inspector, John Jarski would catch. I just wanted to remind you
that you probably should make that application.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : For sure, I'll speak to my clients. I do know that the house and the deck
off the top of my head had C of O's.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's before us does.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Yeah I'll look at the condenser and if we have to apply we will.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Rob anything from you?
MEMBER LEHNERT : No this is pretty benign.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anyone in the audience? Is there anyone on Zoom? Motion to
close the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT: Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye
HEARING#7711—STEVE and FORTUNE MANDARO
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Steve and Fortune
Mandaro#7711. This is a request for variances from Article XXII Section 280-105B, Article XXIII
Section 280-124 and the Building Inspector's June 29, 2022 Notice of Disapproval based on an
application for a permit to relocate, raise and construct additions and alterations to an
existing seasonal dwelling to be converted to a single family dwelling and construct a retaining
wall with railing'at 1) proposed retaining wall- with railing exceeds the code permitted
maximum 6.5 feet in height when located in or along the rear..and side yards, 2) dwelling is
located less than the code required minimum front yard setback of 35 feet, 3) dwelling is
located less than the code required minimum rear yard setback of 35 feet at 2135 Bay Ave.
(adj. to Marion Lake) in East Marion.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Anthony Portillo, AMP Architecture.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Did you get a copy of Mark's recent LWRP report? I think we just go
it yesterday.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : I might not have reviewed it.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let me just put it into the record. We have a front yard setback of
30.1 feet where the code requires 35 feet, a rear yard setback of 29.6 feet the code requiring
35 feet and a retaining wall at 8.25 foot high where the code permits 6 % foot maximum in a
side and rear yard. This is a 6,000 sq. ft: lot and is this the one that you just resubmitted
amended yeah you resubmitted amended plans based.on D:E.C. approval. So the retaining
wall has been changed and the septic location was changed is that correct Anthony?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : That is correct and I will be speaking towards that. That's a big part of
the presentation. I want to start just by reading in the record what the owner wrote, he
wanted to be here today. I just want to share some photos with the Board the owner wanted
to provide. So this is from Steven and Fortune Mandaro, good afternoon Zoning Board and
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
neighbors please excuse our absence which is due to a previous planned trip. We're
attempting to make improvements to a summer home at 2135 Bay Ave. in East Marion for
several reasons. Our home is in a flood zone and during Hurricane Sandy we were inundated
with twenty six to thirty inches of water. We lost all of our possessions and the entire home
needed to be gutted and redone due to the damages by brackish water and mildew. We were
able to make the repairs which took us about a year to complete. We did this with all the
required town approvals. Since then our flood insurance has increased by at least six times of
its original amount. We feel it's time to raise our home above the present (inaudible) and
flood levels. Secondly our septic system dates back at least fifty years and its ineffective in
doing what it's meant to accomplish. Given the close proximity to both Marion Lake and
Gardiners Bay we feel the need to improve this system. Finally, my wife and I plan to retire in
the next several years and we would like to make our sole year round residence. I spent every
summer for the past fifty six years on Bay Ave. as I also in my parents summer home 2380 Bay
Ave. I summered there as a child as have my four grown daughters. This is my and my wife's
happy place along with my children and grandchildren when they visit. For the reason above
we plan to raise our home above the flood zone, improve the septic system so that it does not
negatively impact the surrounding environment and add a second floor for the purpose of
needing more living space. We have hired AMP Architecture to promptly bring us through this
process and have spent many hours over the last eight months studying what is needed,
contacting other agencies, designing and then re-designing so that the finished home will
meet all code required and will sit well both in its location and with a look that agrees with
our neighborhood. We're confident that they have succeeded in doing this and we are
extremely excited about every aspect of the new design and we hope you feel the same.
Thank you for your consideration in this matter. Then I have some photos, can I bring those
up? This is what happened to the house during Hurricane Sandy. I want to start by saying we
thought we would go to Trustees and you know get their approval first and then end up here
and we did actually talk to both departments and Trustees and Zoning and it sounded they all
agreed that we should go to Zoning first so just so you guys understand that so that's why I'm
here. First off I just want to talk about the existing conditions okay, the house itself is below
the flood zone. This property is in a coastal AE zone which basically means you need to meet
the same requirements for a V zone which means your lowest structural member needs to be
2 feet above the base flood elevation. The base flood elevation is 6 so if you consider that
that's 8 feet is your freeboard and then you have your floor pack basically so your girders and
then your floor joist so that's how we're determining the height. We are proposing a finished
floor height of 13 feet. Also the existing septic system is on the rear side of the home closer to
the wetlands and as Mr. Mandaro pointed out it's a block system it's you know sixty years old.
So it's basically just leeching into the wetlands right now and I had a report done by an
environmentalist and I'll read a little bit of that not the whole thing just so that you can
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
understand what they believe the effects are what's going on now and how we're planning on
improving it. The idea was to get the septic the first consideration in the design was, get the
septic in the front yard get it further away from the wetlands which basically created a
situation that we had to move the house back due to the size of the yard. As you can see we
have the septic system we have the septic box on the side yard and then all the leeching is in
the front yard and due to the ground water situation which is a negative ground water there
we have to elevate the grade which created the need for the retaining wall which has been
submitted and approved upon it's been approved by the Health Department upon the Board's
approval and Trustees approval and D.E.C.'s approval. So once we have those we can give it to
the Health Department they are granting us a permit forthe proposed septic system and the
proposed retaining wall.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : How high is that, how high did you have to elevate the retaining
wall from natural grade?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : So if you look at we have it on here so the proposed retaining wall
towards the rear is going to be 7.9 elevation that's the top of the retaining wall and the
bottom is at 2.6. So what created the need for the variance is actually that we're putting a
railing on top of the retaining wall so you don't fall into your neighbor's yard. Towards the
street though it's a lot lower, the top of the retaining wall is going to be at 6 and grade is at
2.7 so it's about it's like 3.3 feet if I do the math.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So let's just make this in the simplest of terms, if I'm standing in
the street at street grade how high above that street elevation how many feet above that
street elevation are you going to have to add fill in order to put in the septic?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : At the street you'll be at 3.3 feet. At the back of the property cause it's
going to slope down towards the street you're at I think it's at 4.3 so about a foot going from
the rear and then the retaining wall is coming down.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The reason I'm asking for the specifics is because one of the
comments that Mark Terry mentioned here is that there's .concern about the retaining walls
proposed on the property line for the sanitary system and the effect on the adjacent
properties from an aesthetic standpoint. The alteration of drainage (inaudible) is also a.
concern. Of course it's especially concerning in that Marion Lake area we're very familiar with
all of that you know wetlands and phragmites restoration and all the history of you know
bringing (inaudible) semi polluted you know back to a pretty healthy condition and we don't
like to see it stay that way. So that's why I'm asking specifically, we need to make sure we
visually understand what the visual impact. We all know you know that you can't if you're on
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
the water table which is pretty much what's the problem there if you're going to put in a
system you're going to have to elevate it so the system doesn't hit the water table.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Which is currently basically in the water so all the nitrates and I'm going
to read a little bit of that from the environmental and also that's a great drawing there that
kind of shows you the elevations of the retaining wall from front to back.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So actually Anthony clarifies he said 3 feet when you clarified you
just showed Leslie at the street scape you're standing in the street, the retaining wall will be
at 3 feet but when I look at this elevation I'm not quite sure how to read what you have there
is a demarcation at 3 feet and then there's 4 feet. So what do these numbers represent?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : That's a railing that we're putting on top of the retaining wall.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Three feet
ANTHONY PORTILLO : The 3 foot railing is at the top that's correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : On top of the 3 foot retaining wall.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : What is the next number the 4 feet, what does that represent?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : That's like the one foot below grade and that's where like the top of our
septic are dry wells are going to be. They're going to be one foot below grade. That was the
reason for that 4 foot. That 4 foot is not the railings are going to be 3 feet above the retaining
wall.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So if the retaining wall at the street is 3 foot above the elevation of
the street on top of that is
ANTHONY PORTILLO : A railing.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So it's going to be 6 feet in the'front with the railing.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : With the railing, yes ma'am. At the end of the day there's no code that
says we need a railing, I'm doing it more out of my own opinion that
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's dangerous.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Yea we don't want their kids falling off the retaining wall onto and just
to understand this is the minimal size that we needed to have a septic system.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well let me ask you, how many square feet is the existing
structure?
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
ANTHONY PORTILLO : The existing dwelling is 800 sq. ft.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : 800 and how many bedrooms does it have?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Three
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Three bedrooms and how many square feet is the proposed new
dwelling?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : In regards to the footprint or with both floors?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All
ANTHONY PORTILLO : The habitable space?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes
ANTHONY PORTILLO : The habitable space so it's going to be 1,854
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: One thousand eight hundred and fifty four square feet okay with
how many bedrooms?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Our proposal is for four bedrooms and the system meets that
requirement.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay go ahead continue unless the Board has a question at this
point.
MEMBER DANTES : I have a question, the height of building (inaudible) non-conforming front
yard setback and
ANTHONY PORTILLO : The existing non-conforming?
MEMBER DANTES : Right you have a non-conforming front yard setback so if you're at the
elevation at 8 which is what you need to do for FEMA why have a first floor all the way up to
13 and not keep it if you need some room for the framing keep it at 9 or 10? Why build it that
high?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : So you're going to need a minimum of 2 feet from the framing cause it
has to be a post beam construction because it's coastal A which basically means V so it's all
going to be open columns and then I think we added a couple of feet which we were trying to
get some area for storage down there that it was like walkable and not a crawling space. So
essentially the minimum finished floor height would have to be 10 feet that would probably
be the minimum like 10.2 depending on the size of the girders.
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MEMBER DANTES :That's my only question.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : So we're probably like we're asking for like an extra one point ten feet
just to make that a little more usable storage area underneath the house.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So along the same train of thought, your walls are on the property
line, how did that (inaudible) feet?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : If you look you see the smaller like retaining wall that's sort of it's going
to create the allowable pitch for the driveway. You're going to come into the driveway it's
going to be pretty steep. I should have maybe given you guys a little bit of.a section of the .
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think I'm hoping you're understanding is that what we're getting
at is that this is not going to be the only kind of application that you'll have or that we'll have
where FEMA becomes a driving force we've had some before. Often they're on small lots near
sensitive naturally regulated features which is in part why FEMA becomes more compelling
but what's happening is that we are visually seeing a profound transformation of the existing
character of neighborhoods which is not supported by the Comprehensive Plan that is to
preserve the character of our diverse neighborhoods. In a nut shell people want to up two
stories on what should be a one story, FEMA compliant elevation which would be far more in
keeping with the existing character of a neighborhood and the concern with Planning now and
the Comp Plan is overdevelopment. Many people want to come out here, retire and live full
time and year round but what they want is something that they should probably build on a
bigger lot but they have the lot this is all understandable. I'm just trying to make sure cause
we're going to see you again and again and again and more of these kinds of these
applications and we want to be fair with property owners I'm sure I can speak on behalf of the
Board but we also have the obligation to the LWRP, the Comprehensive Plan, the character of
neighborhoods. It is glaring and shocking when you drive by someplace and you.suddenly see
these little cottages that have blossomed into these very large structures that are way high up
in the air. You're talking 13 feet up, base elevation for habitable floor so you can get storage
underneath because you have such a small lot you don't have room for.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : I do want to make a comment that and we have a pretty well drafted
side elevation the north elevation, at the front I agree you're going to see the house coming
out but we don't see an elevation I only see in three dimension even four dimension some of
us so when you're looking atthe house you're going to seethe grade going up. That terrain I
think is going to bring the house scale- down to the person looking at it. In regards to us
meeting any other zoning requirements as in height we're not not meeting that right so you
know having a second story I don't think I understand that we're asking for the front-yard
which I haven't even got into the house yet cause I wanted to talk about that but you know
3
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
we're not we're below the requirement for the height so we're not asking to go over height by
any means.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I do understand that, we look at we know that area very well we've
done a lot of variances including the house to one side that's adjacent that was elevated to
FEMA compliance but we also look at the little cottages that were recently renovated they're
still one story and you know that are on either of the other side and that's what I'm trying to
say. We have to look one of our balancing test standards is character of the neighborhood and
the other is environmental so how do you negotiate between those two?
ANTHONY PORTILLO. : Sure, I would argue that those cottages though aren't really in
compliance with FEMA and they should be elevated and that neighborhood should be that
character in a sense that it needs to get there eventually right. I mean that is an area that the
homes are going to be elevated and they're probably going-to be skinnier structures and
they're going to be taller. To me that just seems like that's what that area should look like you
know and you can see it. As you mentioned you can see three houses down they just did an.
elevation with a second floor addition and it's a similar style and look that we're presenting to .
the Board.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea that's what I'm saying. (inaudible) their house because they
had to we had to go through rigmarole about where we were so highly elevated that they
because of the water table and the wetlands and drainage that they wound up they needed to
you know like a huge flight of steps to just get up to their front door and they wanted to put
them straight out you know it would have been in the road.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Our design we thought about that-cause obviously we have to get up
and then we also needed a staircase and again (inaudible) we did a small addition and we
tried to keep that a little bit more to scale and not in front of the house'so you see the stair.
Just a little bit about me, I.worked on maybe four hundred ,Hurricane Sandy homes and I've
actually developed some neighborhoods and the outer banks of New York City and it was the
same situation. There were these old neighborhoods that had.these like old fishing cottages
or small homes and then when we left the whole-you know neighborhood changed. It was all
elevated and everyone was up above FEMA standards and there were second floor and you
know it actually looked nice because all the neighborhood was in compliance and it looked
right because you're on the water you know you should be that.type of house. Again this is my
opinion and you know and I think it's just a matter of time that you're going to see that a lot
of these people are going to have to do that and as Mr.-Mandaro said his flood insurance is six
times you know I have a house on the bay and I'm paying some crazy amount for flood
insurance. It's an, unfortunate thing I agree. I would say like to Eric's comment about whether
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
we can bring it down a foot or something; I think that's something to discuss. It just kind of
makes it more of a hunch over type of storage area, we were trying to avoid that. If I can just
go to the house a little bit and then I can answer any other questions. So just a note, the
existing house is 40 foot 3 % inches in depth and its 20 foot,6 inches wide. The house that we
are presenting, the mass of the house didn't change the footprint of the house didn't change.
All that really changed is the second floor.addition obviously and we did a small addition on
the side and that's where we got you know an area to put a stair to you know a landing and
we were able to put our interior staircase there and that allowed us to not really have to do
much work on the first floor. So essentially we are picking up the existing house; moving it,
doing the addition on the side and then doing a second floor addition on top that's the plan.
We are going to.-be using Helical Piles with concrete pillars so there won't be a lot of
disruption you know to the land, we're not going to be digging in for a footing and all that so
on the sensitivity of the wetlands I think that's a better way of installing a foundation cause
you're not going to create a lot of runoff and removal of dirt. It will have open piers and a
break away wall system around the house so that it will allow for any storm water to enter
and leave as need be. We did elevate mechanicals as well, you can see that we have a
mechanical platform and stairs up to that so the condensers will be up high, the meter will be
up high we're trying to meet all codes. The rear we are proposing some native plantings. Right
now we have a 10 foot non-turf buffer that we'll plant. Like I said I just want to read a little bit
about what the environmental team,wrote. I'm not going to read the whole thing cause it's a
few pages.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Did you submit that Anthony?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : We received this yesterday from them.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don't think we have that.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : It really was for-Trustees but I can give it to you. I just thought some this
stuff did relate a little bit to Zoning I thought you would be interested to hear what they said.
One thing•they talked about with the septic system, when the groundwater table is high or
when there is an excessive amount I guess the septic system and the retaining wall, when the
groundwater table is high or when there is an excessive amount of nutrients specifically
nitrogen and phosphorous the groundwater and local water bodies can become
contaminated. This can have distress affects for the local environment. Excessive nitrogen and
phosphorous lead to harmful (inaudible) and fish kills. Basically what he's saying and the way
I'm understanding he's talking about the whole system saying like you're basically polluting
the waters. What we're proposing is not to do that and obviously putting in an IA system. The
other thing he mentioned here that I thought was important and this is basically his
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
conclusion. We understand the residents of the area have a history of caring deeply for Lake
Marion, the East Marion Community Association notes on their website that they urge the
Town of Southold in Suffolk County in the State of New York to take immediate steps to
address the growing pollution on the North Fork groundwater, marshes, streams, lakes, ponds
and bays to study and recommend technology to try to prevent nitrogen and other pollutants
from entering our ground and surface waters from sewage. Fertilizers (inaudible) and to
develop and implement a plan to slow and reverse the degradation of our drinking and
surface waters before irreversible damage is done to our fisheries, recreational waters and
drinking water supply. It is our belief this is him saying that it's their belief that steps included
in the proposed plan will work to help address pollution of ground water and Lake Marion will
help prevent nitrogen and other pollutants from entering ground and surface waters and will
help slow degradation of the drinking and surface waters and help restore the natural flora of
the region. The reports from Kolb environmental services. I can submit the whole report if you
guys like to read it but I just thought those were some interesting thoughts.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well I think everything in it is something we already know.
Everyone here has been supporting IA systems (inaudible) report describes. The trade-off is
you're'going to wind up with 6 foot high visual impact on what was otherwise the same
elevation as the road. In the end what they're telling me is that people have built before
climate change in places that were not so difficult relative to environmental impacts and
based on climate change we are now trying to rebuild in areas that are no longer really
sensible to build in and what do you do? I mean people own property, we're kind of stuck
right now at a turning point I think.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : We're revolutionaries.
MEMBER DANTES : I would submit it just so that we have it in the file and the other thing is,
how close are you to being a demo? I mean I just don't want you to have to come back.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : I don't I mean again we've submitted to the Building Department as I
mentioned we're not really doing any work on the first floor it's just a second floor plus the
they're not counting in their calculation I'm pretty sure they're not counting the cost for the
piles and elevation cause that's not considered in reconstruction costs. I mean this has
happened to me in the past so I don't want to say they don't make mistakes
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : (inaudible) existing house so there's really nothing, I think that the
Building Department determines it based upon fifty percent of the existing structure.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : So it's value so yeah so it's fifty percent it's the value then, fifty percent
of how much construction you're going again so I had an issue and I actually had to come back
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
to the Board you guys might recall that actually it's still killing my client but so I don't mind
maybe I should check but I'm pretty sure we actually said something like are you sure this isn't
a reconstruction cause they didn't write the letter that way. We're doing everything that
would meet the reconstruction requirements anyway at the end of the day right with putting
in a new system.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well it's interesting because we've had discussions with Building,
the Building Department sees a demo as a demo they don't care what percentage. Once it's a
demo even if you did demolish more than what you were proposing to demolish but this
Board sees it differently because if you're going to be able to preserve a lot of the dwelling
and you have very you know a lot of people do that if they're close to the water they want to
keep their view then we have one set of facts before us but if it's really going to wind up just p
pretty much gone we're going to likely ask you to become more conforming and they don't
see it that way. They just say well it's going it's gone, it's a demo it's you know so the Board
has different standards, we have state laws we have to follow.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : So again I mean the plan isn't a demo, we want to keep the main
structure lift it, move it that's the plan. They just rebuilt I think in 2015 they already spent a
bunch of money on the first floor so they're not looking to ruin that. We're going to leave the
ceiling joist in place and we're going to put a floor joist above the ceiling joist to create the
second floor we're not going to damage the ceiling of the first floor.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Where do you move the existing residence to,to put the pilings in?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : You don't, you lift it up, lift it up you go in you lock your helicals in
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You jack it up.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : You jack it up we roll the house over. One thing I didn't mention is the
existing house is even closer to the front yard then what we're proposing, we're actually
pushing it back as I mentioned which is making us closer to the rear yard.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : (inaudible) septic
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Well we need it for the septic but I mean in regards to being a taller
structure we're not the current existing I think is like 15.2 feet from the front yard and we're
going to be 30 feet so we're like 15 feet back so I mean I think that also kind of with the
rolling landscape you know I do think that that scales it down a little bit it doesn't make it feel
so large in my opinion.
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anything the. Board would like to ask at this point? Pat
anything from you?
MEMBER ACAMPORA': No
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric, Rob any questions or comments? Nick anything else? Is there
anyone in the audience who wants to address the application? Is there anybody on Zoom?We
can hear you can you please tell us your name.
FRANK BEAURY : My name is Frank Beaury I'm from 35 Rabbit Lane in East Marion. This
property backs up to my back yard. I guess I went through this a few years back with Mr.
Mandaro's.cousin Joan Cooke when she built the monstrosity next door to me. My biggest
concern is that there really is no concern for all the neighbors. It just seems to be the concern
for the people that are putting into this. The woman who lives in between her cousin.and Mr.
Mandaro she has her home I don't know what her financial situation is there but she still
enjoys her,house, she's been living there for many years, she keeps a beautiful place. Now
she's going to be sandwiched ..in between two monstrosities with walls that flood her
property from the other home you approved to do all this now what's going to happen as far
as the flooding that's going to go on my property which I was told after Sandy that,it goes way
down. They went .in Mr. Mandaro he says about that he redid .his house according to
guidelines, no he went there with a truck because he's in the construction trade and he filled
the place up with dirt, he replaced some of the footings that were damaged from just age and
rot and he had it all done where he made his property to,go down and basically go onto
everyone else's property. He really didn't care about anyone except for Mr. Mandaro. Also
get a laugh because Mr. Mandaro was working.on his mother's home who unfortunately has
passed and again.I don't know what the situation is there but from what I was told by him is
that he has the house across the street is now his. He put in for different variances to put an
enclosed porch. I really didn't fight it because I felt that it didn't affect me, it didn't affect me
at all because I can't see it and I'm not the type of person that doesn't want people to do
anything but now I walk there it is so close to the people's house next door and then he's
going to put the what'ya call it an enclosure on it I really feel bad for those people. I don't
know them because they just recently bought their home but it's really it's unbelievable that
there's just it's just so overbearing and over the top to put something right next door to
people. I have my own problems. My property is much lower than his and I'm going to have
no what'ya call it no he's just going to build a cement wall just like his cousin did- and he's
going to put a railing and I get a laugh Leslie because you turn around and yousay oh yeah the
railing he needs to put a railing because it's what'ya call it for safety. The funny thing is I have
the same thing with-his cousin with the wall it's like you,live in the Bronx with walls. You buy a
beautiful little summer cottage that you're satisfied with but other people take things to their
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
advantage to increase whatever their value of is in their home irregardless of how it decreases
everyone else's value and quality of life. You said that you that they didn't need to put a
railing that it was fine. Meanwhile they have two young children that are always at that house
and you got your heart in your mouth when you see the playing how they're going to fall off
they're going to fall off in my yard or whatever but there is no care or safety. They were
supposed to put fences in, no fences they didn't have to. You mention about the Lake, the
privacy of we don't have a fence in between my yard and their yard, they put the phragmites
they let them grow because the man who used to do the lake used to tell me, can you pull
them out, can you pull them out? I said you know it's not my property why don't you please
talk to them they're the ones letting the phragmites grow there. I one time I asked him I said
these are the things the very things they want to get rid of out of the lake he says I don't care
about him that way I don't have to put a fence in and this gives me some privacy. I said yea
but then they keep spreading the phragmites. He didn't care, I'm not about to go and trespass
on someone's property and pull them out but now I understand that he's running for the
whatever the secretary of the lake or something like that. Now all of a sudden when he's
involved in two major projects he's very involved and caring with the lake. The last time when
you approved all this stuff for the other house, the house is not finished at all. The cement is
cracking when they did what'ya call it the survey it shos that that is on my property. They
mixed the cement using the water from the lake. I called up Verity if he's still the Building
Inspector he really didn't care. One of the gentleman that came down he cared but his hands
were tied, he couldn't do anything. They went, they used the cement out of the lake, they
used my shower as a urinal, they came there I had to call the police several time when people
that were working there trespassing on my property telling me with my young daughter
cursing with their filthy language cursing at me and once the policemen left they came back
on and the guy tells me he's going to hit me with a shovel. Well the policeman he was smart
enough that he turned back cause he knew it was going to happen and he came and all my
calls to your office they told me to call up and let you know because maybe you can do
something. Nobody wanted to know about it.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think we've heard your testimony before, this is sounding
extremely familiar and I think you're telling
FRANK BEAURY : Yeah and I'll do it again.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : (inaudible) previous construction. Well I think what you're doing is
just driving what I basically said earlier which is that building this way in complex sensitive
areas, environmentally sensitive areas has impacts. We are concerned about the change in
drainage pattern that the septic systems require when they're built just above the water table
because they're so close to lakes or ponds or creeks. It's something the town is going to have
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
to grapple with. I mean it is what it is and we don't like it but it is it's there and what we have
to do is figure out how to balance the standards that the law requires the Zoning Board to
apply in making determinations. The good news is we have very clear cut standards. It's not
just well we like this one and we don't like that one. They are based on six state statutes and
they all have to be addressed in our decisions. It is not an easy job, it's very difficult to try and
figure out how to move forward in a responsible way with respecting some reasonable
property rights but also looking at a comprehensive plan which does not anticipate against
like Super Storm Sandy where then you get to rebuild an entire neighborhood in the 'same
vocabulary. What happens here is incremental change. That is very jarring to the senses when
you drive along and you see small cottages and then you see what looks like a behemoth next
door it is jarring. We've seen some of.those things happen on Rabbit Lane over time on the
waterside particularly.
FRANK BEAURY : It's not jarring it is greed, it is greed by people that are taking advantage.
That property was a summer cottage, it didn't get destroyed by a storm it's not some poor
person that's stuck out of their house. This is a person that has three other houses in the area
and he's totally reconstructing a new home at the detriment of everyone else not for him and
then they can say oh it's not really reconstructing a new home. Yes it is how can it be
otherwise. It was a cottage now it's going to be two stories, it's going to have four bedrooms
up top. You know what they're not stuck out of their house it wasn't damaged by a storm.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN No I understand I was just making a general comment. I
understand this has nothing to do with the storm. I was just talking about how climate change
changes the character of neighborhoods which is what you're objecting to here and which is
something the Board has to grapple with. I'm just wondering if there's anyone else that wants
to sir thank you very much for your testimony it's part of the public record and we'll consider
it carefully. Is there anyone else who wants to address this application?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : I'm sorry I don't want to take up too much more time, I just want to say
one thing. Currently no dry wells on the property, there's nothing no rain water collection, we
are proposing rain water collection that meets the town code so everything will be piped to a
dry well-and that's also going to be utilized in this elevated grade that we have.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Gutters and leaders and so on, on site drainage you're going to
have to do that cause you're going to have to comply with
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Right I'm just stating that that we are proposing that it's in our plan.
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anybody in the audience that wants to address the
application? Are you ready to close this? Motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a
later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER DANTES : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER-LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye
HEARING#7712—GARY TRAPANOTTO
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Gary Trapanotto
#7712. This is a request for a variance from Article III Section 280-15 and the Building
Inspector's August 4, 2022 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a permit to
construct an accessory garage at 1) located in other than the code permitted rear yard at 4593
Wickham Ave. in Mattituck. So this is a new accessory garage in a front yard where the code
requires a rear yard. The house kind of faces Wickham but it's accessed through a right of
way. I guess they're determining that it's the second front yard.
MEMBER DANTES : It looks like the house is a couple hundred feet away from Wickham Ave.
and then it's 72.7 feet away from this right of way.
CHRIS MEYER : Yes it's accessed through a right of way which he owns. There will be nowhere
else to put it because of-the grades of the property and the septic and the propane tank on
either side of the house.
GARY TRAPANOTTO : and the well.
CHRIS MEYER : Chris Meyer.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Are you the one building the garage?
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHRIS MEYER : Yes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We just gotta know what the story is.
CHRIS MEYER : No problem. So with the way the house is laid out and also the elevations of
the property there'd be no way to get to the back yard because on the left side of the,houseis
the cesspools and the septic and the right side of the house there's a buried propane tank and
if we start changing the grades and I mean not to go back to the other guy but we would be
creating runoff and issues and he has so much footage to the neighboring property. If we
locate it where he proposed we'll still have 50 feet to the neighboring property.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So the proposed location is still 50 feet away from (inaudible)
CHRIS MEYER : I think roughly that's what it is. So it's on
MEMBER LEHNERT : 55 (inaudible)
CHRIS MEYER : The neighbor would barely even see it.
MEMBER LEHNERT : He's not even cited for setbacks, it's technically in the front yard.
MEMBER ACAMORA : There's no setback it's in the front yard.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yeah it's just the location.
CHRIS MEYER : It's like you said the front of the house almost faces Wickham but because of
the right of way it creates
GARY TRAPANOTTO :The original entrance faced Wickham.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So you putting it where the parking area is basically.
GARY TRAPANOTTO : At the end of the parking right.
CHRIS MEYER : The driveway's there.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Technicality.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There's a wooded lot across the street by the way. I don't think the
trees would be particularly disturbed. I have no questions, anything from anybody on the
Board?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Sorry it took so long. Is there anybody on Zoom? Motion to close
the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a second.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Seconded by Pat, all in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye, we'll have a decision in two weeks. Motion to recess for lunch.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. Motion to reconvene.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. Good afternoon everyone, welcome to the meeting of the
Board of Appeals. For those who are participating on Zoom I'm going to ask Liz to please
review for their benefit how they can participate.
December.1,.2022 Regular_Meeting
SENIOR OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS :.Thank you Leslie, good afternoon everyone. For
those on Zoom we,do have quite a bit on with us, if anyone wishes to comment on a particular
application we ask that you raise your hand so that I am able to see it. We will give you further
instructions on how you will be able to speak. If you are using a phone with us todayplease
press *9 to raise your hand and we will let you know what you can do next. Thank you. Sorry
Leslie, for those here who are on for the battery at the end please if you speak twice whether
you're in attendance or on Zoom well on Zoom I can see your name but if you're in
attendance can you please state your name twice because I don't know if you're speaking a
second time.Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I'll remind them again Liz..The reason being of course these are the
hearings are recorded and transcribed so it's important, in the transcription to be sure to be
accurate about who said what so we want to get the names down.
HEARING#7710—VASILIOS PAPAGIANIS and THEOTOKIS DAVAS
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The first application this afternoon before the Board is for Vasilios
Papaganis and Theotokis T. Davas#7710. This is'a request for variances from Article III Section
13-A(1) and 280-15, Article XXIII Section 280-123 and the Building Inspector's July 15, 2022
Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a permit to construct additions and
alterations to an existing second single family dwelling and to legalize an "as built" accessory
shed at 1) second.dwelling exceeds one dwelling permitted on each lot, 2) a non-conforming
building (second dwelling) containing a non-conforming use shall not be enlarged,
reconstructed, structurally altered or moved unless such building is changed to a conforming
use, 3) accessory shed is located less than the code required minimum side yard setback of 20
feet located at 1345 Chapel Lane in Greenport. So these are we have a shed in a side yard with
a setback of 2.1 feet where the code requires a.rear and side yard at 20 feet and then we have
additions and alterations to a second dwelling on the lot, 352 sq. ft. total addition. Is that
correct?State your name please.
ROB BROWN : Robert Brown Architect.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you want to begin Rob?
ROB BROWN : The essence of the project is addition to the second residence which_ has a
Certificate of Occupancy in 1983 as a,guest cottage. The owners would like to add a total of
352 sq. ft. and 138 sq. ft. of that is a covered patio. All the buildings we're discussing on the
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
property are pre-existing non-conforming. The issue at hand is really just an enlargement of
the guest cottage to make it more usable for the owners.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So what's going to be the total proposed square footage of that
second dwelling?
ROB BROWN : Approximately 1,050 sq. ft. I don't have the exact the number right now.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The shed is again pre-existing non-conforming it's kind of attached
to the deck basically built in almost. It's a very irregularly shaped long wide lot.
ROB BROWN : It's a pretty odd piece of property.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Actually I have a question you may or may not be able to answer it
I don't know, in 2015 the Board granted a variance prior number 6852 for the enlargement of
an existing accessory garage or workshop, unheated workshop with a half bath.
ROB BROWN : That's correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It would appear for intense and purposes it is being used as
another dwelling.
ROB BROWN : I personally was unaware of that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Did any of the other Board Members observe that?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I wasn't sure what it was but I it looked more than a storage shed or
workshop.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yeah it is not a workshop, something definitely is going on there. It
has nothing to do with you but I does have to do with this Board and what we have to look at
when we inspect properties.
ROB BROWN : I can assure you designed as a workshop.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay well maybe the thing to do is one of us we'll have to do an
interior inspection in order to make a decision or send the Building Department out. It's not
what's before us exactly but anything on the property is before the Board.
MEMBER DANTES : You can just make it a condition with the, the application itself is fairly
benign.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let's see if the Board has any questions on this one, anything from
you Pat?
December 1,-2022 Regular Meeting
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone on Zoom who wants to address the application?
Anybody in the audience? Well if there's nothing further I make a motion to close the hearing
reserve decision to a later date, is there a second?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye,the motion carries.
HEARING#7713 STEPHANIE MAZUR
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Stephanie Mazur
#7713. This is a request for variances from Article III Section 280-15 and the Building
Inspector's April 27, 2022 amended June 27, 2022 Notice of Disapproval based on an
application for a permit to demolish and reconstruct an accessory building measuring 22 feet
in height at 1) located less than the code required minimum front yard setback of 40 feet, 2)
located less than the code required minimum side yard setback (2 sides) of 20 feet on each
side located at 555 West Rd. #1218 (adj. to Cutchogue Harbor) in Cutchogue. This is LWRP
exempt by the way. So this is a demolition and a new accessory building a garage proposed in
what was a pre=existing non-conforming location with a rather dilapidated garage which
we've all seen. So the setback you're proposing now is 3 feet which is I'm sorry it's 3 foot
More than what the existing front yard setback is. It looks like 576 sq. ft. bigger than what's
there now. This is a waterfront property with very narrow side yards:a skinny thing.
ROB BROWN : That is correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So a front yard setback at 10 feet, the code requiring a minimum of
40 feet and the height of the two story garage is at 22 feet which is conforming but it requires
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December l,'2022 Regular Meeting
a minimum side yard setback at 20 feet and you're proposing 8.3 feet and 18.8 feet. What did
miss?
ROB BROWN : Robert Brown Architect, .your description is of course accurate. The existing
garage at that location is very dilapidated and needs to be replaced. We've moved it back an
additional the new structure an additional 3 feet from the property line and made the garage
slightly larger in order to provide a second story storage area. At that location clearly within 8
foot and an 18 foot setback there's no way we could have done 20 feet in that portion of the
property and the grade slopes down significantly from behind that garage which is why we
kept it at a 3 foot difference in setback because it would have exposed a tremendous amount
of foundation to keep the slab of the garage level with the street.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well a lot of the other homes in that area have accessory garages
also, most of them are one story but the second story is only accessed by a pull down
staircase which is important.
ROB BROWN : That's correct. If you'd like to have a google map description showing if I may
showing properties to the west that also have the garages in (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Give it to Kim and she'll scan it and send it to everybody. Let's start
with you Pat, do you have any comments or questions on this application?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Nick anything?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : No
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric anything?
MEMBER DANTES : Not at this time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Rob
MEMBER LEHNERT : No
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone in the audience who wants -to address-the
application? Is there anyone on Zoom Liz? Motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a
later date.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Seconded by Nick, all in favor?
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye
HEARING#7714—BARRY X. BALL and KIMBERLY VAN LEE
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is.for Barry X. Ball and
Kimberly Van Lee #7714. This is a request for a variance from Article III Section 280-14 and
the Building Inspector's June 15, 2022 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a
permit to construct additions and alterations to an existing single family dwelling at 1) located
less than the code,required minimum front yard setback of 60 feet located at 39550 NYS Rt.
25 (adj. to Gardiners Bay) in Orient. Frank do you want to go to the podium.
BARRY BALL : Barry Ball thank you for hearing our request and I hope you view it positively.
Our property is a large on, 11.4 acres and as we understand it as amateurs so it would permit
a house of up to 13,000 sq. ft. We have currently a family house on the property that is less
than 2,000 sq. ft. and we're asking to add a 900 plus sq. ft. to it with less than 3,000 sq. ft.
total. It's our family house, we've never rented it out for my wife and I and our two children
who have all grown up on the property and we all love it and our family has expanded and we
wanted to just add a bedroom and a home office for my wife to current house. Our proposed
addition will be considerably farther away from the neighbors properties that theirs are. All
the neighboring properties have larger houses than we have. Even after our addition ours will
be more or less the same size as theirs and on Cedar Birch Lane which we own and pay the
taxes and maintenance all the other properties are approximately one acre, ours again is
much larger. The style of our addition will be consistent with north fork (inaudible) shingle
style with white trim standard double hung windows. The addition will not be visible from
either Cedar Birch Lane (inaudible) or from Main Rd. especially when the leaves are on the
trees because my wife who I consider the world's greatest amateur gardener has over our
twenty two years on the property single handedly by hand planted over a thousand trees. She
wrote a six page manual on the native plantings on the North Fork and that was actually used
on a D.E.C. meeting and she steadily added trees to form a barrier between us, and our
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
neighbors. Throughout the property in general we organically garden as witnesses by the
three giant compost tumblers on the property. It's a family house that we use and will never
rent out it's not a resort and we're just asking to increase it a little bit in size to accommodate
our growing family. We've literally had family and neighbors show up that have to sleep in
campers or tents outside and so we think the request to add one bedroom, a couple baths
and home office is relatively modest.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I'm sure you're aware we've all visited the property as we do with
all applications prior to a public hearing and the subject road is really a very private and
narrow single track right of way almost. The second floor addition is about 35 feet from that
dirt road and I think you own the adjacent lot also don't you?
BARRY BALL : We own the dirt road yes which is a 50 foot wide street.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Your house is 100 foot setback from the wetlands and the sanitary
system, it's already two story it's totally screened from the road by landscaping. We have an
LWRP determination that this is exempt from LWRP which is Local Waterfront Revitalization
Program which anything that has a naturally regulated feature associated with it must go
there for review to see if it's compliant. It's the Town Planner who does it, he's the LWRP
Coordinator. This is a plan that was put into place a number of years approved by NYS so that
we didn't have to send things all the way up to Albany, we could have local determination
when it came to protecting scenic view sheds and wetlands and bays and creeks and bluffs. So
if something is exempt fine it's not covered it meets all the policies. If something is
inconsistent it'll state why and unless we can as a Board find ways mitigating why it's
inconsistent then we have to deny it. We cannot approve anything that's not in conformance
with the LWRP. We do that sometimes by conditions, we do it by Trustees approval but that's
what that's about.
BARRY BALL : Thank you for the explanation, I appreciate it very much thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Always here to educate the public. So I have no questions, I think
this is really quite straightforward. Rob anything from you?
MEMBER LEHNERT : No
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric
MEMBER DANTES : No I mean if you went the other direction then you're into the D.E.C. and
wetlands so I mean this is the better choice for the environment.
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
BARRY BALL : Thank you for bringingthat up, that was one of the points I missed on here. We
have no way that we could expand the property except in that direction. If we go north we'd
be too close to the septic tank, if we go to the east we'd be too close to the wetlands, if we go
to the south we'd be too close'to the wetlands so this is a perfectively above the current entry
driveway to it to the east.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : No questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Pat
MEMBERACAMPORA : No questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to address the "
application? Liz is there anybody on Zoom?
SENIOR OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : No I do not have any hands.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay I'm going to make a motion to close the hearing reserve
decision to a later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA :Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye, we should have a decision in two weeks at our next meeting.
HEARING#7715—HARKS FAMILY ESTATE, LLC
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Harbes Family Estate,
LLC #7715. This is a request for a variance from Article III Section 280-15 and the Building
Inspector's July 15, 2022 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a permit to
construct an accessory pool house/shed upon residential property at 1) located less than the
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
code required minimum side yard setback of 25 feet at 715 Hallock Lane (adj. to Long Island
Sound) in Mattituck. Please state your name for the record.
DR. DOMINICK MORREALLE : Good afternoon, I'm Dr. Dominick Morrealle and I'm here to
assist the Harbes family as their expeditor.
ED HARBES : Hi I'm Ed Harbes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So there's an accessory swimming pool that has been built and this
is a side yard setback at 3 feet for a proposed the code requires a minimum of 25, this is for a
proposed storage shed with half bathroom. It would appear that the principle reason although
there's room on the other side to have a much greater setback but when it comes to actually
connecting the water supply the wastewater system you'd have to do a whole lot of ninety
degree angles which is not a very efficient way to design water flow. You're not proposing an
outside shower or sitting area or
DR. DOMINICK MOREALLE : We are proposing an outside shower.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh there it is. On the actual structure?
MEMBER LEHNERT : It doesn't show on the plan.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's not on the plans.
DR. DOMINICK MOREALLE : I think it does appear some place I'd have to look it up.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : While you're looking to see if there's a I mean did any other Board
Member see an outside shower. Not that that's an issue though we need to have it where you
want it in our record.
MEMBER DANTES : The reason is you build it during construction and the Building Department
will send you back here and do this all over again if it's not on the plan now they'll just send
you back.
DR. DOMINICK MOREALLE : If we cannot
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you think you will be proposing it on this shed?
DR. DOMINICK MOREALLE : Yes absolutely and if we can't find it here I'll submit an addendum
if that's alright.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Right now what we have you're calling it a pool house but it really
is a storage shed with a half bathroom cause there's no refrigerator, there's no sitting room,
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
there's no changing room and it's 9 foot 6 inches by 15 foot 6 inches and less than 10 foot in
height.
DR. DOMINICK MOREALLE : That's correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It is also LWRP exempt now that you all know what the LWRP is. I
will point out that when we inspected the site the house on one side there's nothing it's
basically undeveloped property it's the end of a dead end basically. On the other side is a
lovely home it's set way, way back farther so that this shed is literally next to a landscaped
planted (inaudible) along a long driveway to the house. So I see no actual impact at all to
anything. Pat do you have any comments or questions about this?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anybody on Zoom?
SENIOR OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : I do not have any hands.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone else in the audience who wants to address this
application? Okay what I'm going to do is close it subject to receipt of an amended survey
showing the location or whatever drawings you have showing the new proposed outdoor
shower so that when we stamp it we stamp it in such a way that once approved the Building
Department is (inaudible)that you built it.
DR. DOMINICK MOREALLE : Very good, thank you very much.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there a second on that?
MEMBER DANTES : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
HEARING#7684SE,#7685 Ḇ—KCE NY 26, LLC
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have three applications for the same applicant before us. I'm
going to open up all of those applications at once and read them all into the record so they
can be addressed interchangeably. The first application is KCE NY 26, LLC #7686. This is a
request for an interpretation pursuant to Article XV Section 280-62 and the Building
Inspector's April 6, 2022 amended April 13, 2022 Notice of Disapproval based on an
application for a permit to construct a new Battery Energy Storage Facility to determine
whether the proposed Battery Energy Storage Facility is a Use permitted by a Special
Exception located at 10750 Oregon Rd. in Cutchogue. The next application by the same
applicant in the same location is a request for Special Exception pursuant to Article XV Code
Section 280-62B(5) to construct and allow for public utility structures and uses i.e. battery
energy storage system facility. The property is zoned light industrial by the way. The third and
final application from the same applicant at the same property, this is a request for a variance
from Article XXII Section 280-109A(1) & (2), Article XV Section 280-63 and the Building
Inspector's April 6, 2022 amended April 13, 2022 Notice of Disapproval based on an
application for a permit to construct a new Battery Energy Storage Facility and to subdivide
the existing parcel at 1) proposed created lot shall require direct access to a public street in
accordance to NYS Town Law 280-a, 2) height of structure more than the code permitted
maximum 35 feet in height, 3) structure less than the code required side yard setback of 20
feet again located at Oregon Rd. Would you please state your name for the record.
JOHN ANZALONE : Good afternoon madam Chair and Members of the Zoning Board of
Appeals, John Anzalone Harris Beech PLLC 333 Earl Ovingtin Blvd. Suite 901 Uniondale, New
York 11553 attorneys for the applicant. Thank you for the opportunity to make this
presentation. I'm here with respect to the three related applications for Key Capture Energies
proposed battery energy storage facility or BESS at a parcel located within a light industry
zone and located along Oregon Rd. in Cutchogue, New York which the applicant is in contract
to purchase. Key Capture is seeking an interpretation that BESS is a public utility use as well as
a Special Exception to permit a public utility use and variances. Prior to today's hearing we
submitted memorandums in support of all three applications. Relevant to the three
applications before you and as indicated in the plans filed with the application the
development of the BESS requires a subdivision of the property into two lots. The larger lot is
proposed to be approximately twenty five acres which is to be owned by Key Capture Energy
and includes a utility scale BESS and the project substation. The other lot would be
approximately two and a half acres and developed by the applicants and deeded to the Long
Island Power Authority for the development of a point of interconnection or POI substation.
LIPA's requirement of ownership of the substation is what requires a subdivision which in turn
creates the setback variance between the two substations. From the point of interconnection
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
substation the project would interconnect with the electrical grid via a 1,150 foot long
transmission line that would be sited and travel in a southeasterly direction across the town's
mulching facility to Middle Rd. pursuant to an easement with the town. The operations of the
components of the two lots as relative to power grid and the technology used will be
discussed shortly by Phil Denara of Key Capture Energy. Relative to the interpretation the
town code does not define public utility use. In such circumstances the town defers to the
definition contained in the Webster's Dictionary. Here Webster's Dictionary defines the public
utility use in full as a business organization such as an electric company performing a public
service and subject to special governmental regulation. Given this definition in May of last
year this Board interpreted that BESS be a utility use in connection with the application by
Suffolk County Energy Storage II, LLC. We submit that this interpretation should be (inaudible)
with the Key Capture Energy's project as well. As more fully detailed in the memorandum in
support of this application, the applicant is a business corporation whose affiliates maintain
utility scale BESS projects and are developing them throughout New York State. Utility scale
BESS projects are not built for private use instead such projects are integrated into the
electrical distribution architecture. Here the (inaudible) public service by providing reliable
electricity coverage by purchasing electricity from the electric grid at off peak hours. Storing
the electricity and releasing electricity back to the grid on demand typically during peak hours.
The project will enhance power grid reliability by providing ancillary services such as voltage
uplift to the New York's independent systems operator commonly known as (inaudible) to
help provide grid stability to all LIPA customers subject to the regulations opposed by LIPA,
PSEG of Long Island, NYSOP, the New York State Public Service Commission and the Federal
Energy Regulatory. At this time I would like to turn the presentation to Phil Denara of Key
Capture Energy to further describe the proposed use, operation and technology and also to
address the two substantive issue raised by the Planning Board recommendations.
PHIL DENARA : Good afternoon madam Chair and Members of the Board. For the record my
name is Phil Denara and I'm the Senior Manager Development for Key Capture Energy. As a
brief introduction Key Capture Energy we go by KCE is the developer, owner and operator of
the utility scope as the largest operational project in New York. Our (inaudible) facility known
as KCE NY 1 in Stillwater, New York. Headquartered in Albany KCE is a startup New York
business (inaudible). We also have an office in Brooklyn. We're committed to supporting New
York's climate leadership and community protection act CLCPA and the public service
commissions (inaudible) goal restoring 1,500 megawatts of energy storage by 2025 and 3,000
megawatts by 2030. Governor Hochul announced (inaudible) this goal to 6,000 megawatts by
2030 during the State of Address in January 2022. Long Island's electric grid is rapidly changing
in preparation of expected wind and solar generation and the retirements of aging generation
plants. The local grid will be a fast responding flexible solutions like battery storage to
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
accommodate these changes. I have (inaudible) in this area and I live in this area. I'm acutely
aware of how fantastic the North Fork region is and the importance of preserving the natural
landscape and environmental and social eco-system. This is a great project that is an industrial
zoning district on a twenty seven acre parcel, sixteen acres of which are proposed to be left
undisturbed. The system's abutting the Cutchogue landfill, is unmanned has no traffic, will
not utilize lighting unless for infrequent emergency night time maintenance and will have
minimal impact on the current public infrastructure. I would also like to note that we have
(inaudible) the Planning Board's comments during a recent work session and have determined
that it's feasible to modify the project design-such that all overhead transmission lights on the
property will be underground. The project will support a resilient and reliable electric grid on
the North Fork, will utilize local union labor to construct and maintain and will significantly
increase tax revenue generated from the site. There are a number technical reports seeing the
value of energy storage and specifically battery storage. I would like to note the Long Island
fossil peaker replacements study prepared by (inaudible) consulting on behalf of the New York
Batter and Energy Storage technology construction known as NYBESS. Operations of Long
Island's aging fossil fuel power plants that operate primarily during peak times and found that
it's feasible and cost effective to replace more than 2,300 megawatts of Long Island's 4,300
megawatts of fossil fuel peaker plants energy storage over the next decade. It also found that
approximately half of the peaker plants are around 1,100 megawatts could be retired and
replaced with energy storage by 2023. The remaining 1,200 megawatts could be replaced by
2030 in conjunction with the New York's nearest plants to increase solar energy, energy
efficiency measures and offshore (inaudible) resources. Over the next decade fossil fuel
peaker plants can also the retirement of fossil fuel peaker plants could save LIPA (inaudible)
customers as much as $393 million dollars and contribute significantly to reducing harmful air
pollutants. Battery storage have (inaudible) response time, high safety and industry proven
reliability and versatile applications. In addition to supporting integration of renewable energy
the project will provide ancillary services through the NISO the near independent system
operators (inaudible) which will support local (inaudible) liability. For example, the North Fork
today relies on fossil fuel peaker plants with minimum run times. This means that the facility
must burn fuel simply to warm up to provide transient recovery voltage known as TRV and
other grid services. BESS provides a costs effective sustainable and reliable alternative which
will benefit rate payers. A great example of the benefits that BESS can provide is the KCE NY 3
facility which KC built on behalf of (inaudible) utilities known as ONR through a competitive
(inaudible) alternative know as an NWA RP to provide support for (inaudible) in Ramapo, New
York in October of 2018. There was opposition of the project (inaudible) infrastructure which
would have been charged (inaudible) increasing system reliability and reducing reliance on
carbon emitting resources. In 2020 PSEG LI request for information to learn about a similar
(inaudible) available to (inaudible) of up to 130 megawatts of (inaudible) alternatives on the
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
North Fork technology such as battery storage. Utility scale BESS such as this system utilize
battery cell storage found in an electric vehicle. The cells are arranged in modules which have
sensors to monitor real time conditions such as temperature, voltage and (inaudible) within
an enclosed system. These modules are places in racks that are built into containers custom
designed for the needs of the BESS including sensors, communications and control equipment
and specialized fire detection and suppression equipment. This system will comply with
various codes and standards that are responsible for energy storage installations including the
international fire code,-the international building code, the New.-York State energy storage
supplements and the National Fire Protection Association NFPA 855 and the Underwriter
Laboratories UL9548. Lithium ion batteries have already been (inaudible) in a wide range of
energy storage applications including batteries in the (inaudible) kilowatt hours (inaudible) on
residences and an (inaudible) charging in garages. KCE is an industry leader with a local
footprint in the largest operating project in the state and a growing operational portfolio
throughout the country. We have completed and look forward to continuing (inaudible) with
the local community. This includes work sessions with the Town Board dating back to as far as
2020 and project presentations the North Fork Audubon Society, (inaudible) campaign for the
environment, The Group for the East End and upcoming meetings with the Cutchogue Civic
Association.Thank you for your consideration and time.
PAT ACAMPORA : The information that you just gave to everybody is that part of the
application? It's filled with a lot of technicalities and we would like that to be put into the
record so can you give us a formal copy of that.
PHIL DENARA : Absolutely, there is a certain amount of it that is in the expanded EA and
anything that is not John will certainly file today or in the near future.
MEMBER DANTES : You said you were going to bury the power lines now will that eliminate
the need for one of the area variances without the poles?
JOHN ANZALONE : The area variances also relates to the (inaudible) mass not just the
transmission poles, the transmission poles are the more visible because it has the wires going
to them but there's three poles that are lightly mass that are in substation required by safety
requirements that Phil can describe, those are supposed to be pertained so that area variance
will remain.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So that's a height variance for the poles?
PHIL DENARA : Yes so there will be three 55 foot (inaudible) you know skinny lighting mass in
the project substation and then there would be four lighting mass within the POI substation.
Perhaps for just a bit of reference in terms of how we're connecting to the high voltage grid,
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
currently there is LIPA's high voltage 69 kilo volt line which is running parallel to the same side
of the property as the mulching operation along Middle Rd. We will essentially pulling that line
into our point of interconnection substation and then routing it back out, it's called a double
circuit line. The LIPA substation that is being built is called a three breaker ring bus, essentially
the purpose of this is to be able to break the flow of energy from either direction so it's
allowed to break the flow of energy to the west but still allow energy to flow into our project
from the east. Likewise if there's asking to perform the system from the west isolate the
system from the west allow energy to flow in the same direction to our project for frequent
performing any maintenance in our system we can isolate our project and allow energy to flow
to and from the east to the west. So that is why the LIPA substation is needed.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : In the mulching area the elevation is considerably lower is it not?
The height is going to appear a lot less?
PHIL DENARA : Certainly we are prepared to route the entire line including both on the
property and through the mulching operation underground but ultimately we can definitely do
that underground on the property and commit to that today and we would just like to reserve
the right for a technical review and pending an easement agreement with the town as to why
it makes sense to do so in the mulching operation itself.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yeah because I'm sure that one of the greatest concerns is even
though it's not declared a specific scenic view shed the aerial along Oregon Rd. is one that
we've all come to know and love as a beautiful rural environment and lots of open space so
there will be considerable concern about character of that neighborhood relative to visual
impacts of those things. Did we scan the new thank you very much for the three excellent
memorandum of law by the way, are they scanned in yet?
BOARD ASSISTANT : Yes we scanned them into Laser.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What that means then is that any of the information that the
applicants are providing to us verbally today is already in writing and you will therefore be able
to obtain it on Laserfiche, everything we have you have access to, it's part of our public record
and it will be available at that link. If you don't know how to access that link you can call our
office and they can email you the link so you click on it directly cause it gets kind of
complicated to find that stuff. For those of you that are eager to see something more visual
there are two they're sitting over there all of their plans that they submitted to us are on that
table on the side. We want to make sure the public has all of the information we have. I
actually had a question about 280-a variance, it's my understanding and looking at the plans
that you're allowing an easement to cross your BESS lot to provide access to the (inaudible) lot,
is that correct?
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
JOHN ANZALONE : That is correct, yes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well that easement then is going to make that variance
requirement go away.
JOHN ANZALONE : Yes that's in the Planning Commissioner told us that when I met with them
on Thursday I think the Building Department flagged it as a I guess in abundance of caution.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay but I think that is probably going to disappear because as long
as LIPA can access across your lot their equipment which they don't have to do much
maintenance on very frequently then that 280-a requirement is met.
JOHN ANZALONE : Okay, understood. At this time I'm going to ask Phil Denara to deliver to Kim
Fuentes a copy of the report he mentioned by Stratigen as well as the professional resume of
Joel Richardson who will be presenting from H2M Architects and Engineers as well as a copy of
the town's climate smart community resolution. Relative to the Special Exception a variance
application is also important to put improvements in context as it relates to the overall
property. At this time I'd like to offer Joel Richardson of H2M to walk through the site plan
including a location of each of the proposed variances and proposed landscaping to-screen the
on-site improvements. Also Joel will reference and address directly the Planning Board's
comment relative to the lighting particularly the height of the lighting fixture. Thank you.
JOEL RICHARDSON : Good afternoon madam Chair and Members of the Board. My name is Joel
Richardson I'm a civil engineer with H2M Architects and Engineers located in Melville. I just
wanted to present to you the site plan the 27 acre property,is proposed to be developed for
the battery energy storage development as John and Phil have described. As you can see on
the site plan on the .screen the actual BESS development area is centrally located to the
property. There are two hundred and seventy two individual battery containers proposed to
be installed. Those will be accompanied by thirty four power conversion system units which
would step down the voltage to charge the batteries. All of that development the BESS
development will be enclosed within a twelve foot tall visual and sound barrier on the north
and partially west and east perimeters of the BESS development area. The balance of the BESS
will be enclosed within a chain link fence. There is an access drive connecting to Oregon Rd.
that would provide access both to the BESS area enclosed within the sound barrier and the
visual barrier and also to the project substation which is the more easterly of the two
substations and the point of interconnection substation. The point of interconnection
substation being the one that would be on the subdivided lot to be dedicated to LIPA. As John
had just mentioned there's a joint access easement proposed, there's a subdivision application
it's actually been filed to subdivide the two lots and a joint access easement would provide
access to the LIPA substation parcel out to Oregon Rd. There's going to be minimal traffic from
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
this development. On average one vehicle trip per month for maintenance staff to visit the site
and do their business on the property. The proposed access roads would be constructed of
crushed stone or RCA pavement. Drainage improvements will be provided for the development
consisting of catch basins and dry wells that would be sized to comply with town and New York
State D.E.C. regulations. As Phil and John mentioned there is a (inaudible) connection to the
transmission line on CR48 that would traverse the town's mulching operation site. I'll point out
the locations of the variances. I also have another exhibit that has some photographs that
were taken the locations of the variances you have a copy of this, the first variance which
you've already discussed is the lot that doesn't have access it's not connected to the
(inaudible) skip over that one since you already mentioned that it's not necessary any longer.
The side yard setback variance is actually limited to the common line between the two
proposed subdivision lots that are being created, there's an aluminum (inaudible) that goes
over that common property line so the aluminum hard (inaudible) itself will have a zero foot
setback because it passes over the property line it's directly on top of the property line. In
addition there is a small equipment storage shed that is within five feet of the common
property line. So the only variance from the side yard setback the 20 foot required side yard
setback is along the created common property line between the POI substation line and the
BESS lot. The other area variance request is for the lighting mass that were referenced earlier
as Phil mentioned there are three lighting mass within this area of the project substation and
four lighting mass within this area of the POI substation.
PHIL DENARA : The purpose of these lighting mass is for electrical grounding, they need to be
higher than the substation infrastructure because if lightning were to strike then the property
essentially needs to hit the lighting mass before it hits the substation equipment. Currently the
proposed lightning mass within the POI substation are sitting on top of the H-frames. These are
thirty four, thirty five foot H-frames which are carrying lines entering and leaving the
substation. Since we're now proposing to (inaudible) underground instead these would be
ballast mounted to the ground similar to what's currently proposed within the project
substation.
JOEL RICHARDSON : I would point out that the location of the lightning mass is distant on the
property as it possibly could be on Oregon Rd. they're set behind the rest of the development
which includes the visual barriers and also landscape planning to screen the entire
development. I think that's it for the variances.
MEMBER DANTES : How many feet from Oregon Rd. would you say those lightning (inaudible)?
JOEL RICHARDSON : Well it's the entire depth of the property, I'd say you know 1,500 feet,
1,400 feet. Also mentioned there is site lighting proposed within the BESS area. I know it had
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
come up in commentary from the Planning Board that the height of the proposed site lighting
was in question. We had shown on the lighting plan that was submitted with our site plan
application 30 foot pole mounted lights and we know that there was some concern over that.
The mounting height was in accordance with the limitations prescribed by town code which is
35 feet as maximum height but we've gone back and talked to our electrical designers to bring
that height down. The reason that we have proposed the taller height initially it should be
noted that the lighting is for emergency purposes only. It won't be turned on regularly it's not
on a lighting schedule, it would only be activated in the event that some type of emergency
personnel needed to visit the site at night. The reason for the initially tall height was because
the location of the battery storage containers created shadows and so the taller height would
allow for a better lighting but we've taken a look at the lighting design and we're proposing to
utilize a maximum lighting height of 20 feet to address some of the concerns that were raised.
The last point and then I'll show some visualizations that we prepared. We have proposed a
planted hedgerow along the north and west perimeters of the BESS development. The intent is
to soften the view from Depot Rd. and Oregon Rd. which are the two primary frontages that
visually would be impacted by the development. The hedgerows are proposed to be planted
with a mix of deciduous trees and evergreen trees. The intent is to mimic the natural tree
f stand that's towards the south of the property and create a softening and continuity of the
Q natural vegetation that's in the area. We're proposing to plant twenty eight deciduous trees,
j seventy one evergreen trees and a number of shrubs to enhance that and give a year round
l appealing aesthetic to the plantings. I'll present the visualization at this time, I'll show them all
and then I'll describe them. In fact can I talk without speaking into the microphone?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : As long as Liz can catch it. Liz tell us if you can hear.
JOEL RICHARDSON : So the first image is taken from*the intersection of Depot Rd. and Oregon
Rd. you can see the sod farm that exists on the site. In this area is the planted hedgerow it's
directly in front of the proposed visual and sound barrier and you can see the actual natural
tree stand off to the southwest of the development and although it's difficult to see on this
image are the lightning mass behind this development. There is an existing antenna that's on
the adjacent property to the south that there's in the distance behind and kind of in a line
with the other lightning pole structures that are proposed going to the substation properties.
Maybe we can flip that around. So I'll show this image in a different aspect in a moment but
this is actually is zoomed in view. This is a photograph that is taken from Oregon Rd. looking at
the development area and then in order to provide a little bit more context, we exploded that
view up to a much larger scale so that you can get some sense of the plantings. These
plantings are shown in a wintertime leaf off condition so you can see the evergreen trees but
what's difficult to see probably from where you're sitting are the deciduous trees and shrubs
that have no leaves on them. This is done to show like a worst case scenario in terms of the
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
visual impact. There's a green colored visual and sound barrier behind the plantings and sorry
about that and then what you can see behind the visual and sound barrier are the light poles
at thirty feet-tall that we spoke about earlier they'd be reduced and the substation overhead
wires, the transmission line coming in to the substation which Phil spoke to already and H
frames and tall lightning mass which we just addressed a moment ago as well. So again this
image is a zoomed in view from Oregon Rd. but I have the actual view from Oregon Rd. we
can look at as well. So this is that same image but actually set back and taken from Oregon Rd.
So what we just looked at was a zoom of this portion of that image right there. So you can see
from Oregon Rd. the actual visual impact is much further away. So this is taken from Oregon
Rd. and this portion of the image is the were you able to see the other image I'll put it back up
in a second. This portion of the overall image is the BESS development. There is a row of
plantings in front of the greens it looks like a linear wall that's the visual and sound barrier and
then the plantings would be in front of the visual and sound barrier. Then the one that Phil is
holding up is the zoomed in version of this exact image where we it's kind of acted like we've
walked halfway through the sod farm to get a better view of what it actually looks like. Phil
was just talking about as you can see in the back part of this image the substation overhead
equipment and that's what Phil mentioned earlier it would be taken underground so this
image was with those overhead wires but they can be taken underground and then there's
the lightning mass and light poles which are the tall skinny poles that you see in there that as
we spoke about earlier that can be mitigated by taking them lower as well. This image is
similar to the others and it's from Depot Rd. so it's just taking a look from west looking
towards the east and seeing largely the same vantage. The hedgerows following along the
west line of the BESS area as well, so same impact as well. What you can't see here is the
substation area which is actually obscured by the existing trees that are in the southwest
corner of the property and on to the adjacent property as well. Thank you all.
JOHN ANZALONE : Thank you Joel for the (inaudible) the Special Exception criteria was
addressed in both the application and the memorandum filed in support. For the benefit of
those who have not had a chance to review the memorandum I will summarize the project's
conformance with the criteria. The site is zoned light industrial which along with the light
industrial park/planned office park district appears to be one of only two zoning districts that
permits generally permits a public utility use subject to this Board's approval. Further it should
be noted that the town is climate smart community with goals to reduce greenhouse gases
and establish other energy efficiencies in the town. This project (inaudible) goals as Phil noted
since it can be (inaudible) to use to reduce peaker plants which are high pollutants. In addition
to the properties zoning the property was also selected given it's relatively flat topography
which allows for minimal re-grading, the proper drainage, absence of wetlands, close
proximity to transmission lines, large setback of the BESS use to neighboring property lines
62.
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
and structures given its large acreage. The project is not within close proximity to recreational
facilities and there were no recommendations concerning this site in*the town's farmland
protection strategy, Comprehensive Plan or Cutchogue Hamlet study. The project is also less
intensive and also permitted as of right in the industrial zone. After construction the project as
noted will be unmanned and controlled and monitored remotely during operation. The
project only requires water for the purpose of establishing and maintaining on-site
landscaping. The project involves no generation of refuse or generation of sanitary discharge.
As noted the project does not create a traffic hazard with only one vehicle trip per month. The
project will not generate and during its use of noxious gas, odors, smoke or soot nor electrical
or dust emissions or migrations. Noise is limited to the liquid cooling pump with the
(inaudible) modules and medium voltage power conversion system and this was addressed by
the sound wall that Phil and Joel noted. (inaudible) when necessary again the site will not be
lit (inaudible) emergency service. Further the scale of the project small relative to the overall
size of the property with the majority of the property being left undeveloped. The project is
compatible with the neighboring industrial uses, town mulching facility, former landfill and
additional sanitary and recreational uses in the area. The project will also not impact the
abutting farm or sod farm. Moreover all abutting parcels are zoned for industrial uses and the
proposed use will not prevent the orderly and reasonable use of such land in these industrial
districts. The nearest residences are located more than one thousand one hundred feet from
the proposed BESS and hundreds of feet more from the tallest and thus most visible
structures. The proposed BESS as noted by Joel will be surrounded by code compliant
landscaping. The project has been designed in accordance with all applicable life safety codes
and engineered to allow first responders to access and maneuver about the site in the event
of an emergency. KCE will also as it does in areas where (inaudible) perform all necessary
training with the local fire departments to ensure that the facility to properly address
(inaudible) first responders in the event of an emergency. The project also (inaudible) benefits
to the town, I will not repeat the grid benefits the LIPA that Phil noted. The project will also
have a pilot agreement that will result in increased taxes. Further the construction of the
project will take approximate eight to twelve months with many of those being employed
union workers hired through the local building trades. Turning to the variance relief as noted
earlier the project involves subdivision which as Joel said creates the variance between the
POI substation and the (inaudible) project substation. As the five factors that as relates to the
variance are addressed in the memorandums I will not repeat them. In short the requested
variance permit a shared driveway is better than (inaudible) create two driveways and as the
Chair noted it's really unnecessary given the easement that we propose. The zero foot side
yard setback is noted as (inaudible) that connects the two substations together, the
(inaudible) is a safer model involving no transmission lines which are more susceptible of
failure than a hard (inaudible). Respectfully this variance is dictated by the direct connection
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
between the two substations that is necessary to provide the greatest reliability to the electric
grid as possible. Concerning the height variance to be noted it solely relates to the lightning
mass which had to be higher than the 21 foot 5 foot installed hard (inaudible) in case
(inaudible) as to reduce the height of lightning mass it will need more. The applicant
respectfully submits that the proposed height variance will not create a detriment to the
neighboring nearby community. As a lighting mass with a setback of more than 1,400 feet
from the public roadway and hundreds of feet from structures on neighboring parcels and
they're well out of outside of any fall zone radius to impact any neighboring parcels. I would
be remise to not note that there is a variance that is not here before this Board. It's my
understanding from speaking to Kim that we will address it at a later hearing that's regarding
the height of(inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What we would like to do and appropriate is to just explain a little
bit more about that twelve foot high per codes (inaudible) and I also would like to address is
the design of the stacks the cells where the lithium ion batteries are located. Sometimes
they're just open stacks, sometimes they are enclosed in you know a kind of a metal building
just let us know what that's going to look like and as much as you can tell us about this sound
barrier what it's made out of and so on. What the attorney is indicated is that (inaudible)
notice that it is possible that a height variance for this wall maybe required. The Building
Department is currently reviewing it. The applicant has submitted additional information to
the Building Department about its material and its purpose and so on. If we can't get that
done we were hoping to have that information by today but it's not available. When we get it
if variance is required we will have another public notice and you will be made available and it
will be addressing it as soon as we possibly can so that's what the applicant's comment was
about.
JOEL RICHARDSON : So with respect to the wall I will note that as part of the record, today I
actually submitted a supplemental memorandum concerning a wall and how going through
each of the five factors plus the sixth factor that this town considers. So that's been put into
the record and I've presume it will be made available on the town's on line system for review
by all.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The Board will get it today and we'll get it scanned tomorrow.
JOHN ANZALONE : Understood. So to summarize what is in that memorandum, the wall will
not result in an undesirable change to the neighborhood since the wall will be set back
significantly from the roadways and abutting parcels as described by Joel. This distance as
noted by Joel together with the vegetated screening from the sod farm on Oregon Rd. will
significantly reduce any impact from the wall visually. The benefit cannot be achieved by an
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
alternative method. The wall is proposed to be ensured that the project strictly complies to
the town's noise ordinance is necessary given the components commonly used in BESS
facilities.
MEMBER DANTES : Excuse me, you describe it as a wall, is it a wall or a fence.
JOHN ANZALONE : It's a wall, it's not a brick wall I can turn it over to somebody who can tell
you who knows the materials better if you'd like at this time.
KCE REPRESENTATIVE : If you want to speak to the wall I can speak to the battery questions.
So the wall is a pre-manufactured system. I consists of sheet metal cells that are filled with the
sound insulating material and then there are columns that the sheet metal panels fit down
into. There's a variety of vendors that manufacture these types of walls but that's in general
the construction type. They have a powder coating paint finish to them so they can come in a
variety of colors. We've depicted on the visualizations that we prepared a green colored but
we're open to whatever is most appealing to the community broadly. Does that answer your
question?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is it essentially an acoustic material?
KCE REPRESENTATIVE : It's one hundred percent, it's a batting that's interior to the wall, it's
perforated on the inside edge so that it absorbs the sound and then the exterior is a flat finish.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You're putting up just one of these or are you going to enclose the
entire system in all four directions?
KCE REPRESENTATIVE : No so it's enclosed entirely the north side that faces Oregon Rd. and
then about fifty percent heading from north to south along the east and west boundaries. The
furthest southward portion of the BESS development will be enclosed within a chain link
fence.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay so some now a chain link is for simply security.
KCE REPRESENTATIVE : That's correct, that's what this is proposed for.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I presume you're going to if they're connected you're going to use
the entirety as an enclosure of some sort for security.
KCE REPRESENTATIVE : You're correct yes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Some of which is acoustical.
KCE REPRESENTATIVE : That is correct.
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
PHIL DENARA : Perhaps I can address (inaudible) it might be helpful if I just walk through how
energy is delivered to the system and by doing so I can explain more about the equipment
being used. So obviously we're taking power from the high voltage grid. This is LIPA's high
voltage interconnection system so as power and energy flows from the transmission line it will
enter the three breaker ring bus substation (inaudible) conducted with aluminum hard
(inaudible) into our project substation. Within our project substation there is a main power
transformer, the main power transformer is a standard transformer that you would find in
many LIPA substation on Long Island. The main power transformer is (inaudible) down the
voltage of that energy from in this case 69 kilo volts down to 34.5 kilo volts. That main power
transformer is then connected with underground conduit so this is conduit down under
ground with PVC piping and some other material and we're essentially pulling the 34.5 cable
wires through that all underground to our power conversion systems as Joel previously noted.
Within these power conversion systems it is enclosed within a container just like the batteries
are, there is a transformer and an inverter. The transformer is then (inaudible) voltage one
more time from 34.5 KB to 13.2 KB so this is a standard voltage that you would find in a
distribution line and (inaudible) residential house. The invertors alternate the current from AC
to DC so the high voltage grid energy flows with alternating current and rerouting it to DC
current just like you would for energy in doing your house. So at this point you have a very
safe voltage and DC current entering the battery containers all underground those wires
connect to the battery system. Within the battery system as previously noted there are
battery cells which are aggregated into modules. There's a number of testing that occurs
within the factory for these systems. The battery cells themselves are tested, the modules are
also tested and one of the fire rating categories is that should in a worst case scenario a
(inaudible) occurred which would essentially be the lithium ion cell that it would not spread to
another module within the container. Essentially these modules are stacked and slid into each
other within a self-enclosed rack as well so this is in a completely sealed tight (inaudible) for
fire rating purposes and also in case of a fire emergency we would flood that specific rack as
soon as anything was detected. So those essentially (inaudible) these cells aggregated into
modules, these modules are aggregated into racks and there's two sections of racks within the
container separated by a DC (inaudible) combiner and a liquid cooling pump which is
(inaudible) liquid cooling throughout the battery modules.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What are the dimensions, the width, height and depth of the
container?
KCE REPRESENTATIVE : (inaudible) it's approximately 9 % feet tall, approximately 8 feet wide
and approximately 30 feet long.
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
MEMBER DANTES : I think that leads to I mean when we have these hearings (inaudible)
what's the likelihood for it to catch on fire? Will the fire require special equipment, does the
salt water cause these potential (inaudible) and what's the companies safety record as far as
these (inaudible)?
PHIL DENARA : I'll start with a couple of (inaudible). First I'll site the Electric Power Research
Institute that's (inaudible) has a tracker for utility scale battery fires.There's currently a one to
two percent failure rate across the entire global portfolio of energy systems. As previously
noted Key Capture operates two project within the state including the largest property in the
state as well as a couple of hundred megawatts in Texas and couple more hundred megawatts
under construction including projects in Texas and a twenty megawatt facility in the Buffalo
area, none of those projects to date had fire to them. In terms of your question about the fire
department, in today's practice Key Capture will work with the system provided to coordinate
a safety response plan and train the operations and maintenance personnel to execute them.
The on call (inaudible) staff are usually arriving at the scene at the same time or soon after the
fire responders and they're typically the first plan of contact so the (inaudible) personnel will
have remote data and access (inaudible) real time through our operation center so typically
they know what's occurring in case of a worst case emergency which is highly unlikely. KCE
will also train and develop an emergency response plan with the local Fire Department but
they're mainly expected to mitigate the incident from outside the fence in a worst case
scenario be spraying the container with fire hoses but they're not necessarily expected to be
entering the BESS facility within the fence line that will occur with specialized (inaudible). I'll
also note at this time cause I'm sure there'll be further questions, per the fire code the NYS
fire code section 1206.5.2 analysis approval, the authority having jurisdiction which in this
case is the town shall be permitted to approve a hazard indication analysis report from a third
party consultant as documentation of the safety of an energy storage facility. We can work
with the third party consultant to generate the specific port for this specific project which will
ultimately show that the project complying with a number of required codes and standards
and as I previously mentioned and will ultimately demonstrate that the project poses no
significant risk for the community or any nearby receptors. This would include the fire or
thermo risk as well as toxicity.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Our understanding that the local Fire Department would like you
know to review this application and submit comments to our Board. They were unable to be
here and they really haven't felt that oh they are here. Okay when I get to you, you can say
what you want. Great then I don't have to worry about it, thank you for pointing that out.
PHIL DENARA : And if I may, typically Key Capture does meet with the Fire Department. In this
case we contacted the town they recommended that we wait for a new Fire Marshall to be
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hired before we contact anyone but we typically do have these private meetings before we
hand in an application to the town. In this case it was a bit of an unusual instance considering
the Fire Marshall's departure and change.
MEMBER DANTES : In Southold I believe the Fire Marshall and the Fire Chiefs are separate
departments so that's part of the confusion.
PHIL DENARA : Understood we're taking guidance from (inaudible)
MEMBER ACAMPORA : I have a question, you mentioned when you were talking about the
Fire Departments that they would have access onto the outside perimeter and you said you
have usually a monthly inspection so if there was an emergency where is your person being
deployed from? Where are they coming from ?
PHIL DENARA : We'll work with the local or a team that will be locally based. I don't have a
specific location at this time that I can answer that question.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Well what is considered locally?
PHIL DENARA : It's a valid and good question, we have not come up with a specific emergency
response plan but obviously would as part of the planned application process.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The Planning Board has a public hearing for all of you who are
continuing to be interested in this on December 5th and they will be discussing some of the
mitigation measures you've already offered to us in compliance of and some of their
recommendations about burying lines and so on, visual impacts and lighting also. I presume
rightly or wrongly or maybe I won't presume I'll just ask you straight out that it is apparently
standard practice to provide to any town a decommissioning plan and also prior to the
issuance of the posting of a bond right.
PHIL DENARA : Correct
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So it was really just the decommissioning plan and a performance
bond posting which is pretty standard but any approval that might come from this Board
would require those two things as standard conditions of approval. By the way we've been
informed by the Planning Board that at this point they have issued a Type I SEQRA
determination. We are waiting to see the final outcome, it is likely to be a Neg. Dec., Negative
Declaration and this Board would adopt the Findings of the Planning Board relative to SEQRA
because they are Lead Agency just so the public is aware. I think the Fire Department is going
to be in the SEQRA determination also so they will be actively involved in what happens here
as our first responders. We have as you probably know we have one other BESS application
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
previously and we learned a lot and one thing I want to thank you for is your very detailed
technical explanation which we did not have available previously. You indicated that we had
made a code interpretation, essentially what we did was look to Webster's which didn't tell us
terribly much about what a BESS system is because our town never anticipated such a thing
when we indicated a public utility in a light industrial zone I didn't exist. So you're technical
explanation and your request specifically for a code interpretation which we did not have
previously will allow us to more fully address it with the hopes that eventually this kind of
thing would be codified in our code and not just be an interpretation because clearly given the
kind of climate crisis we're all facing we're very aware of the need to move into a much less
polluting situation especially with the fragility of our surrounding environment. Maybe we
should just turn this over to the public I'm curious to hear what you all have to say. Let's I
think we have didn't we have some hands up on Zoom? Maybe it's just easier to get those
let's have the Fire Department yeah you go first, since we mentioned your name. Please
remember to sign in if you would.
AMOS MERINGER : Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon thank you guys for
coming out and giving us your detailed explanation of what's proposed. My name is Amos
Meringer, Chief of the Cutchogue Fire Department. I'm here today with Commissioners Dave
Blados and Steve Harned. We're just getting up to speed on this and our concerns are many.
There's a lot that we don't know yet so before any decisions are made I feel like a lot more
conversation has to take place and we welcome to meet with you guys.
DAVE BLADOS : For the record Dave Blados (inaudible) of the District. When you said in case
of some kind of fire in the facility you feel that (inaudible)?
PHIL DENARA : It depends on the final design but (inaudible) clean agent or a water so it
would be dry sprinkler system you would connect to a hose
DAVE BLADOS : We would connect?
PHIL DENARA : Probably not because the (inaudible) team is probably going to be the only
DAVE BLADOS : Where is the closest water source?
PHIL DENARA : I think it's on Oregon Rd.
DAVE BLADOS : About 1,500 or 2,000 feet away.
PHIL DENARA : Yeah I think we're probably going to end up putting
DAVE BLADOS : (inaudible) going forty miles an hour (inaudible) we have a problem. You allow
us a perimeter of the location how's that kept clean and who do we wait for?
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
PHIL DENARA : That's a good question, we're looking for
DAVE BLADOS : I just want to (inaudible) questions to go through and just the other question I
had will lead up to I'm going to say the town you know when people apply I'll just use
McDonalds (inaudible) gas station and (inaudible) they applied for zoning changes the town
closed that down because (inaudible) environmental things whatever you say but here now
you're proposing this big I'm going to call (inaudible) in Cutchogue and I don't think we need
it, I think it's too dangerous for us and what do the people of Cutchogue get out of this, do we
get a big tax break? If something does happen and you can't use the land because of the
toxicity if the thing burns well it's very toxic number one and I don't know if the (inaudible)
going to go down I don't know what's going to happen in the future if this does go and that's
all I'm going to say for now. Thank you.
PHIL DENARA : May I address the comment? So first and foremost I think you heard
comments and we're looking forward in working with the Fire Department as part of the
review process. I think that the most notable comments made were regards toxicity, so I will
note that our consultants have extensive experience performing large scale fire testing with
the ion batteries. Proprietary (inaudible) measured indicated the toxicity levels in much like
that of a typical structural fire. In regard to runoff or water supply the NFPA 855 (inaudible)
VGL study determined that the trace amounts of heavy metals can be deposited from
combustion of the batteries. These elements are not expected to be present in large
quantities or quantities larger than any other fire similar to what you'd expect in a structural
fire.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I will say there's a learning curve for all of us with this new
technology. Many people are understandably leery and fearful and that is as far as I'm
concerned completely understandable. We don't know what to expect and we want to
protect our families, our friends, our community, our neighborhoods and so what we need is
to have experts confirm to us the where, why and how educate us more on what we can
expect and how we can move forward with a cleaner energy strategy that doesn't
compromise where we live. That's the point, we want to find some balance here. So that's
why we're trying to get as much information as we can, we're trying to listen to everybody's
concerns that's what a public hearing is for so that we can you know really address all those
concerns including our own. I mean we have to be convinced that if we approve anything it's
not going to cause any detriment to our community. So be assured that this Board is very,
very cognizant of that but we're also very aware of how much energy all this new construction
is taking. I mean look around you, look what's being built here and a lot of it is allowed to be
built here whether we want it or we don't want it it's here, change has happened. Look at the
amount of energy swimming pools alone are taking up. I mean you can't get a pool contractor
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
for two years if you wanted to put in a swimming pool. So things have changed, we have to
grow with those changes in a responsible way. So I'm very grateful to hear all of your
comments and your concerns because they do need to be taken seriously and they need to be
addressed. I believe the professional team is prepared to do exactly that and so we will give
them the time to convince us that this is the right thing for our community. Again, consider
attending our Zoom meeting or looking at the transcript later and the Planning Board's
meeting on the 5th. They're already beginning to make some changes based upon concerns
and comments of visual view sheds and transmission lines and heights and lighting and so on
so all of these will have to be factored into decisions both Boards have to make. Anyone else
want to speak? Please sign in.
TIM HILL : Good afternoon, my name is Tim Hill I'm from the law firm of Messina, Perrillo and
Hill in Sayville, New York. I represent Alex and Kevin O'Mara who are here today who are
themselves are part of a larger group of the community that's very concerned about this
project. I'd like to address some of the three applications that have been made. First the
interpretation issue, I understand that your town code has a built in rule of construction which
is if the term is not defined you refer to the dictionary definition but I think as you just
mentioned that the dictionary definition of public utility is not particularly illuminating here.
That definition is I'll just say there is other ways of looking at that. The term public utility is
(inaudible) it's a term of legal significance that's being looked at in many ways by many courts
up to the Courts of Appeals and I think there's this whole body of law which construes that
term that would be shortsighted to ignore that and rely only on a very generic dictionary
definition. So I'll talk about what those case law says what that term means. To begin with,
even if you did again use the dictionary definition that's of a business entity such as an electric
company it's hard to know what to do with that modifier such as an electric company. This is
not an electric company performing a public service and subject to special governmental
regulations. The public service here is not clear. There's a theoretical benefit to the public but
this is not a direct service to the public in a way that normal public utilities that we're familiar
with providing public service. This is a (inaudible) venture yes part of a growing industry of
green energy but as a something that's demonstrated to be a public service this is not that
and subject to special governmental regulation. There is (inaudible) from what I can see in the
memorandum, most of that has to do with regulations as they apply to the construction of the
facility it's not with respect to the operation once it's in existence. Again I would submit
respectfully to you to consider how the term public entity has been construed by the courts of
the State of New York. I have a packet of representative cases that I can hand up to you that
have dealt with that issue and recently the Town of Islip had the same question before it and
determined there that the applicant for a (inaudible) system did not meet the definition of a
public utility. I have that decision as well as part of the packet if you'd like to receive it. So the
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
courts and again this goes up to the Court of Appeals our highest court in New York have a
little bit more specific criteria. The first of which is that the entity are typically a (inaudible) de
facto (inaudible) they get the benefits and they get the down side which is an extremely
closely regulated industry. You get the benefits in terms of tax breaks and other relaxations of
municipal codes but they have the burden of being very closely regulated industry and it
applies to what are essentially (inaudible) that doesn't apply here. It applies in a central
service I don't know that there is a demonstration that this is an essential service. Yes again
it's part of a progressive plan for dealing with energy but it's not a demonstrated proven issue
that this is an essential service. Similar to the dictionary definition but in a much more
emphatic way the cases provide that they are subject to pervasive governmental regulation
which means fixing or (inaudible) and that kind of close scrutiny. So under either the
dictionary definition or the judicial definitions we don't believe that this is a public utility. So
again I have a packet of the authorities that I'd like to hand up if I may.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Please do.
TIM HILL : Turning now to the second application, if this were to be a public utility and the
question is whether the same is here for a Special Exception of the code I think there are a
large number of considerations that the public here is concerned about. Under Code Section
280-142A I would just not that the considerations there are of adjacent property or adjacent
districts so I don't think the concerns here should be you know the people that are have
standing speak and have a legitimate concern that limited merely to the immediate
neighboring parcels. Under Subsection C the consideration there is for safety, health and
welfare I think we just heard from the Fire Department that there are significant concerns
with respect to that and it sounds like there needs to be much more information about what
that how a potential fire and it seems like I know it's a different thing but every other day
there's a news report about a car going on fire an electric powered car going on fire. Under
Subsection E whether or not it's compatible with the character of the neighborhood,
particularly with respect to visibility this is an open space, yes it's in an industrial zone but it's
a beautiful part of the green belt. From my own very uninformed experience looking at it it's a
place where the horizon diminishes at the point where that horizon line is defined by natural
elements, trees this would be an interruption of that. From the images shown even though it's
set back it is still breaks up that horizon line. Under Subsection F, again that does concern with
the accessibility of fire and rescue vehicles and I think that's a significant concern. Under the
additional factors I don't know I heard that there's some form of noise attenuation I don't
know what the in the absence of that what the level of noises and how you know how
completely it's addressed by the proposed attenuation measures. So I'll defer to the public
from there you know more (inaudible) knowledge of these issues but I think there are many of
those factors that are of real concern with this project. Finally, on the area variances with
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respect to the five statutory factors in all cases this is a self-created situation in terms of the
substantiality of the variances that are being sought they're very substantial. With respect to
the setbacks, it's a fifty to a hundred percent request from relaxation of the code. With
respect to the poles and the height variance that looks like it's a sixty percent variance from
the 35 foot height restriction. As mentioned this is an area where all of us non-experts need
somewhat of an education but I don't know to what extent is the consideration for
alternatives here and why this couldn't be done in another way that doesn't require these
variances and I don't know that you at the present time have the information whether those
or any other alternatives would exist. Finally, with respect to the character of the
neighborhood and detriment to any environmental concerns again I think there are concerns
of the visual impact, there's a concern about potential danger and so for those reasons the
statutory factors (inaudible) against the area variance requests.Thank you for your time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Thank you for submitting some case law.
MEMBER ACAMPORA :.Can you tell us again who you're representing?
TIM HILL : Alex and Kevin O'Mara and they are part of a larger group of concerned citizens you
know not each of whose names I know.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Are the O'Maras' residents of Oregon Rd?
KEVIN O'MARA : Hi I'm Kevin O'Mara. We are the people who organized this however there's
a group of twenty different homeowners who are actually behind of this and, over seven
hundred and fifty people have signed a petition against this facility. So there really is a fairly
substantial opposition to this in the town. I just want to be clear, from where we are on
Oregon Rd. I can't see it, I won't be able to hear it, it's really the green belt impact that this
has that is so troubling to most of us who would not be directly affected in terms of our view
or experience of our homes. Since I'm up here and I don't mean to cut the line but I guess I'll
just continue it seems to me there must be a lot of money being made here because there's a
lot of money being spent on the consultants and the pretty pictures that they're sending us
which is fine that's the way our system works but when it puts us at risk and I think there can't
be any question that that is happening when we hear from the Fire Department, when we
look at places like Chandler, Arizona and Surprise, Arizona Chandler had a week's long
evacuation of the area around one of these facilities when it caught on fire. In Surprise,
Arizona firefighters were thrown seventy five feet away from the facility when they tried to
put out the fire. These things are dangerous. The water used recently there was a Tesla that
caught on fire, it took fifteen thousand gallons of water to put out the fire of that Tesla.
Imagine how much water would be produced to put out the fire at one of these facilities, just
one of the boxes. Where is that water going to go after it's gotten contaminated by lithium
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
ion? That's one big point and I think the Fire Department is concerned about that and rightly
so. There's already a plume of toxicity coming from the landfill and this would just add to
what's in the groundwater in that area. The other thing, there's lots of talk about how great
lithium ion is but there is constant research into new battery technologies and I've seen
nothing that would prevent Key Capture from changing the technology that they use in this
facility to something that could be somewhat more efficient for them but far more toxic and
risky for us. So that's something I think that really needs to be considered. Another point that
we think that we need to keep in mind is the fact that the screening and the sound wall that
they have proposed is woefully insufficient and certainly in the winter even in these pictures
which ideally they made it ideal to make it look good, make it look somewhat like a prison
particularly with the tall towers around it. So I think there's certainly there's not while there's
certainly been some accommodation there's not it can't be hidden the way it needs to be. I
think even the level of opposition to this I got my start in the town thirty five years ago
representing actually the Town of Southold in trying to build the Southold's Compost Facility
at the dump and worked with Jean Cochran, Frank Murphy and all those people way back
when and you know I think in that instance the town looked at it and said you know what the
support wasn't there for this facility and it killed it and I think that's the case here as well.
There just is not the support for this facility inside the town. Thank you.
SENIOR OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : Leslie I do have some hands up I just wanted to let
you know.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay we do have a couple more people lined up here and then
we'll get to the Zoom comments. I haven't forgotten but thank you for reminding me.
ANNE MURRAY : Good afternoon Chairman Weisman and Members of the Zoning Board my
name is Anne Murray and I'm here representing the North Fork Environmental Counsel as the
Southold's Land Use Coordinator. I'm here today to urge you to not issue a Special Exception
for this 60 megawatt lithium ion battery storage facility. The reason is that the NYS Energy
Development Agency has developed a guide book several years ago which you may or may
not be aware of that outlines best practices and training for local governments. In order to
ensure responsible battery development it recognized that municipalities form a task force of
local stakeholders to develop local laws to ensure the orderly development of these sorts of
projects. A very good idea I think. Southold Town has not planned for nor has it developed any
laws governing the placement of these types of facilities. The (inaudible) supports that battery
facilities but only if the town has a well-considered plan in place for them and the town owes
it to the public to ensure that battery storage facilities have environmental standards and
more importantly safety reviews. Due to this very lack of planning Southold approved a
battery storage facility in a completely inappropriate location in Greenport adjacent to
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wetlands and preserved open space. There were simply no battery storage law or plan in
place to prevent this. We believe it is unwise and unfair to the taxpayers to grant a Special
Exception for yet another battery storage facility without a proper town plan in place. I might
add that with the town having a zoning consultant now going over the zoning code this may
be a very good time to stop this action and have the zoning consultant take a look at where it
would be an appropriate battery storage facilities in the town. Thank you.
RON MCGREEVEY : My name is Ron McGreevey I'm a retired Chief in the NYC Fire Department
the longest serving Member on the Architectural Review Committee. This is the reason I went
over that because the ARC was supposed to have a meeting at 4 o'clock on this and it was
canceled. Everything I look up on this is bad. These batteries are very, very bad and I got
something here from FEMA. The fire service is unaware and inexperienced when a fire and
explosion has it's affects. They go on to say one of the biggest lessons learned from the fire
service is that the utilities and commercial entities that own large battery systems are equally
unfamiliar with the potential fire hazards as well. There remains many questions about the
toxicity of the gases from these batteries. FEMA is the U.S. Government. Flagstaff Arizona Fire
Department had one of these explosions, they report flames of fifty to seventy five foot high.
I've seen that but on ship fires that's a big fire. I think you should all find out as much as you
can about the fire hazards here. There were so many explosions and fires in South Korea that
they shut them all down to examine a couple of years ago. I see nothing positive in any of this.
This is from the American Chemical Society, failures of the protection systems to function to
any electrical surges led to explosions in some cases. They go further on to say, lithium
batteries are prone to overheating, swelling, electrolyte leakage, (inaudible), smoke,
explosions and in the worst case scenario involving (inaudible). Now something much closer to
this I think it was the golf course in Riverhead they had ninety golf carts, battery operated golf
carts they all went on fire out of nowhere. They had fires in cars with this stuff. You put it out
the heat is still there and burst right up. They can't use halogen agents because it's too toxic it
really is. It not only breaks the fire chain and puts the fire out the heats still there and
(inaudible) flame again. They say don't use water some of these outfits. It puts a particular
burden on the Fire Department coming here. They'll have somebody there that don't work
I've seen that too many times they never get there for some reason. It's up to the local Fire
Department and the volunteers to try and handle this. The fire that we're talking about in
Arizona eight firefighters were injured that blew up unexpectedly in Flagstaff Arizona the
exact point I don't know. So I think you should really consider hazards of lithium batteries.
They're very, very dangerous in these types of facilities. I know the gentlemen that were here
said there's hardly any incidents, we're (inaudible) sensitive all over Europe all over
everywhere. Everything I went to look up turns into a negative. Just take that into
consideration when you you know grant an approval or disapproval. Thank you very much.
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let's see how many more Randy did you want to say something
and then behind the three of you. Maybe we should do somebody on Zoom just out of just
trying to be a little balanced here. If you'll just hold on just sign in please but I'm going to ask
Liz to let somebody in on Zoom whose hand is raised.
SENIOR OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : Okay I'm letting Beth Wachter in. Beth is you can
unmute please.
BETH WACHTER : Hi I just wanted to know what the past several commenters have said but
also I am curious why Cutchogue and not less rural area dedicated to environmental character
of the North Fork. It seems that you're relatively low density population and the presenter
mentioned that it will be gathering energy from east and blowing west and I'm curious what
percentage of the energy created by this facility will benefit residents versus other townships.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay thank you for your comment, I think I can answer that and
I'm going to ask the experts to correct me if I'm wrong. LIPA makes a determination as to
where the energy within their grid system goes and it will not necessarily come to the locals
where the facility is located. It will go to wherever they determine it's needed. It could be here
but if there's a greater need up island somewhere and they're part of that system then it will
go there. That was my understanding. It is not localized it's part of the utility companies grid
electrical system and they will take that-extra energy that has been reserved which is obtain
during you know low peak hours and then available during higher demand and they will you
know take it from the battery energy storage system and put it wherever they think it's
needed. Is that correct? I'm just going to get an answer from the applicant's representative.
PHIL DENARA : Yea more or less that's correct. I think it is worth noting that as I previously
mentioned the North Fork has a peak energy demand of you know sixty five to seventy
megawatts at this time which is growing. PSEG LI has released an R5 regarding (inaudible)
alternative for local sources of energy within the North Fork for up to 130 megawatts.
Currently today there's two fossil fuel plants, the Hawkeye Facility and a gas facility in
Southold Substation which are supplementing that need but they are going to retire it at some
point and we are going to need locally installed generation which is going to include a mix of
things. It's going to require large scale battery storage which is what we are proposing in
appropriate locations, it's our position that this is a highly suitable location for our project and
there's limited locations that you can install such a project to fix the high voltage grid. It's also
going to take energy efficiency measures for residential solar everything to move this grid
away to a hundred percent renewable energy which is required for the CLCPA of a hundred
percent renewables by 2040, seventy percent renewables by 2030. Thank you.
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RAY FINNICK : Hi my name is Ray Finnick I'm from Mattituck. I'm a little bit confused because I
think all this energy that is coming into this storage bank is it coming from off the shore of the
South Fork on windmills. What I'm asking is, the energy that is being stored is it coming from
offshore you know windmills?
PHIL DENARA : So there'll be a mix of energy generation on the island but yes as currently
proposed there's a number of offshore wind plants that are proposed off of Long Island in the
(inaudible) areas that will be interconnected into various points on the Long Island's electric
system. Ultimately this project will be charging when there's excess generation on the grid
and discharging during peak demand. So for example if the wind is howling at night and
obviously less people are using energy during that time instead of curtailing that energy we
can essentially charge that into our system ensuring the lowest cost marginal cost of energy is
available for use when peak demand is needed. In addition to providing the immigration of
renewables this project is also going to serve as (inaudible) alternative. It's capable of
providing certain ancillary services to the electric grid, this includes voltage uplift transient
voltage recovery, frequency regulation, other services which are (inaudible) substation or
other transmission infrastructure due today which is ultimately going to defer transmission
upgrades from PSEG and directly benefit (inaudible).
UNNAMED SPEAKER : (inaudible) Newsday from transmission lines from those (inaudible)
facilities across the South Fork underneath the Peconic Bay areas and so on and so forth to
the North Fork here. Now why is this site here chosen instead of a nearby and less expensive
way of getting that transmission here or why is it not on the South Fork?
PHIL DENARA : So it is interconnecting into various locations of the electric grid. It's not the
offshore wind that's proposed is not interconnecting to the North Fork. There's a location in
East Hampton that's connecting to Holbrook there's a contract with (inaudible) for a location
in (inaudible) substation which is in the Valley Stream area. Ultimately as mentioned electrons
are going to flow to the grid freely and you're going to need local sources of storage of energy
everywhere the electric grid including the North Fork to support PSEG's transmission of that
electricity to its (inaudible) repairs in local areas.
UNNAMED SPEAKER : (inaudible) is chemical that the lithium batteries produce water is very
you know a safer source out here because it is limited in the aquifers out here. That's all I have
to say, why was it chosen here?
PHIL DENARA : As noted there's a number of reasons why we chose this specific location as
well as the battery storage project on the North Fork. (inaudible) environmental concerns are
duly noted and we do plan to continue to work with the town and submit the necessary
technical documentation to demonstrate that but ultimately energy storage and local sources
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of energy are needed in the North Fork to displace fossil generation and that's exactly what
we are proposing here.
UNNAMED SPEAKER : You presented a very technical you know explanation of your you know
project.
MEMBER DANTES : You're supposed to talk to us.
UNNAMED SPEAKER : Oh I'm sorry. The information that was provided here I think is far
beyond you know a lot of our people that live here on a daily basis and I think that you really
have to give some consideration to this.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : I just want to add to the conversation, I was a former Member of the
Public Service Commission and the state does have a plan and we do have on Long Island a lot
of the old peakers that are polluting like crazy half of them don't even work. Energy storage is
something nationally that people have been talking about but not necessarily battery storage
so storage is something that's important. The decision of whether it should be battery storage
is another issue to address but just to let everyone know also LIPA is proposing to have more
of these type of facilities I don't know if it's battery storage but storage in order to close down
all those old peakers. So the question was asked would we get benefit of it? I don't think
anybody can really answer that question until they close down all those peakers to know. So
when the need is going to be west it will go west, if the need is here maybe we'll get some
benefit of it that way. A lot of these questions really can't be answered until LIPA makes their
decisions and the last approval that we gave that was only based on LIPA's approval to accept
that particular person. That didn't happen so right now what we did approve is not
happening. So just a point of information so that people understand you know LIPA is really
still running the show and there's still a question about what's going to go on with LIPA? Will
LIPA become a public utility rather than what it is now? So everything is really it's hard to
answer all the questions that you all have because we will not have all those answers either
but we'll do the best that we can but your input is important but I thought I should just share
what with you some of the information that I know.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you Pat, Randy why don't you go ahead and then we'll go
back to Zoom
RANDY WADE : Randy Wade, Greenport just on the side isn't it true that electricity loses
power the farther away it goes down the wires? So I would imagine the South Fork is going to
be wanting to have a BESS storage located near them as well if it isn't already in the works.
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
PHIL DENARA : As noted yes there are losses of energy as you transmit it especially at lower
voltage at longer distances but as I previously stated, energy storage is needed throughout the
electric grid.
RANDY WADE : Thank, I didn't want to lose my chance to make my point. Oregon Rd. is
precious to all of us, the vistas and I think it's really important that we set an example with
this that will guide the legislation that's going to need to have happen and it should have
happened a couple of years ago it should have been a wakeup call and when the peaker plant
for the battery storage was proposed for the wetland area next to protected land. I believe
there was another one proposed in Greenport and
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That never went through.
RANDY WADE : Yeah so neither went through we are like so blessed and I hate to say it but
this particular land seems to be a highpoint on our very low Long Island. Being next to
wetlands is really not so great but there has to be a lot of protections and you can use this as
an example. For instance, a buffer that's ten feet of vegetation is nothing. It needs to be fifty
foot and it needs to be native plants. The plants that are specified in the plans are not native
plants. Yes if we could see a wooded lot you know a fifty feet buffer then it would look
compatible with the agricultural vistas that you see on Oregon Rd. and it would need a deer
fence because we have experience in Greenport that deer eat the understory and then you're
going to look right through to it so a deer fence protecting the fifty foot buffer at least on the
north and west side would be essential. I was very relieved to hear that the tanks themselves
are capable of being filled with water because everything I've read is the only way to really
put out the fire that can continue on for a long time is submerging it in water. I appreciate
what somebody else said about what happens to that water that's contaminated and I also
appreciate that this is really going to get working during peak times which in the summer
times and that it I mean if taking the draw from the aquifer that's what we don't want them
drawing from the aquifers so a requirement that they have a water storage device on site and
they have a containment area for polluted water should also be important. (inaudible) the
tanks themselves would have water in them I didn't understand why they would be built in a
concrete bathtub and also if they're lower to the ground than you know they would be less of
an eyesore. Now that I picturing these tiny you know relative to the storage cells these tiny
tanks well they're not that tiny they're big but to put out a fire in one and only have the water
of that one thing might not be enough so I'm suggesting that it should be a concrete
swimming pool kind of container and then that might also be a way to deal with some of the
contaminated water and (inaudible) maybe gets pumped out to a truck and (inaudible)
disposed of in Pennsylvania or (inaudible). I think these are considerations and yeah how high
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is the land? Was I right in saying it was like fifty some feet? I looked at your contour map I
don't know if that was something well it doesn't matter.
KCE REPRESENTATIVE : The grades on the property are above fifty feet.
RANDY WADE : Fifty feet great, so that's like (inaudible) some of these other sites that have
been proposed. So I hope it works out for everybody, the community and the town. I strongly
believe that we're going to need these and totally in support (inaudible) polluting peaker
plants, they you know run on diesel or oil and spew pollution and so yeah thank you very
much for your consideration.
MEMBER DANTES : When they're talk about the height they're not talking about the height of
the building being fifty feet, they're talking about the land being fifty feet above sea level.
PHIL DENARA : You're correct, it's the natural grade on the property is fifty feet above sea
level.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there someone else on Zoom?
DENNIS LANE : Dennis Lane from Cutchogue. I have several questions, one is what type of
chemistry is this located storage facility going to be made of? I haven't heard that addressed
because there's at least six lithium chemistries and they're not all created equal. Some of
them have bigger downsides than other ones or drawbacks. The other thing is, we shouldn't
be putting our Fire Department at risk in any event a thermal runaway happens to this facility.
This thing is going to go off like crazy, there's nobody going to pouring water on because
that's going to make it worse. That's going to be the proverbial pouring gasoline on fire. You
would not pour water onto electricity it's just going to make a mess. The last thing I have is, is
this property contiguous with the Southold Transfer Station? If it is it's a stone's throw away
from mountains of wood chips that they have stored in the back and could ignite if this thing
has a thermal runaway.Thank you.
PHIL DENARA : So the first question was lithium ion chemistry. This is a lithium ion phosphate
battery which is the safest of the lithium ion technologies and most likely to not have a
runaway incident.The second question was in regards to I'm sorry
DENNIS LANE : The transfer station.
PHIL DENARA : In regards to proximity to wood chips, I don't know that I can specifically
address the proximity and distance to the wood chip pile but I will say that I would as soon as
it's appropriately (inaudible) we can take that back.
So I
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
DENNIS LANE : It looks like it's contiguous if you look at the maps. Even the lithium ion
phosphate what chemicals are vented in a thermal runaway.
PHIL DENARA : Please repeat the question.
DENNIS LANE : In the event of a thermal runaway with the lithium ion phosphate batteries
(inaudible) I believe they're called what's vented what toxic are vented into the air from a
runaway event?
PHIL DENARA : Sure, so I'm not going to address this question at a high level but ultimately I'm
not here to discuss specific chemicals that are being released into the air. I will say that I
believe and don't quote me on this that the most common emitted chemical would be
hydrogen chloride but please don't quote me on that but I will restate-my previous comments.
Based on our specialized consultants extensive experience proprietary gas data measured
indicate that toxicity levels are much in line with that typical structural fires what would
typically be burned in a house or commercial building today is much in line with the emissions
that would be produced from this facility in a worst case scenario.
DENNIS LANE : From everything I've read the effects on humans of these lithium ion batteries
in a thermal runaway cause nausea, diarrhea even coma so if you're downwind from this thing
while it's going off (inaudible) massive battery facility with minimum setbacks on the property
it's going to be not a good scene. Anyway thank you I'll listen off Zoom.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, thank you very much. Is there somebody else waiting to be
heard. Alright I'm going to take somebody in the audience next. Please sign in and tell us your
name please.
CHRIS SHASTKIN : Chris Shastkin from Mattituck, I just have a few questions. So I was
wondering what type of(inaudible) or elements are used in the manufacture of the batteries?
Are these ethically sourced or they made by children in Africa or other countries around the
world? (inaudible) I believe the U.S. does not have
MEMBER DANTES : We can't really it's not under our (inaudible)
CHRIS SHASTKIN : Okay then I was wondering about the sound barrier, if you stand right next
to it what is the decibel of the sound emitted by the batteries?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That they can probably answer. We learned a lot from the first one
that we took a look at and the with proper baffling it's really well below what the town noise
ordinance basically says is the requirement but let me let can you answer that?
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
PHIL DENARA : Joel is pulling out the sound study report which has been submitted on file as
part of this presentation.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : A lot of these things are you're right people look we don't want
what do we know about this stuff and the bottom line is none of us are experts until we are
called upon to be challenged to really look at it and learn which is what all of us are doing this
Board and all of you are doing the same thing. We're reading, we're reading studies, we're
asking questions, we're trying to look more deeply into what it means. Again be reassured we
all live here, we live here too, we're neighbors. We don't want to see anything in our town
anywhere in our town that is going to put any of first responders or our residents you know in
any kind of risk. I taught architecture for many years and one of them was healthcare and I
was one of the first people to scream no about vinyl siding because I know when it burns
dioxin is off cast and it will kill you and it will give you cancer. That's what happened in the
World Trade, I could kill Christie Todd Wittman when she told people no it's fine go in. Yeah
do you know how many miles and miles and miles of plastic coating on the electrical wiring
those buildings were there. Why do you think so many of those wonderful people that rushed
in without any fear for their own lives died of cancer and other respiratory illnesses. So you're
darn right you want to pay attention but we have a lot to learn. Nobody really wants anything
anywhere, none of us would really we'd like to keep everything just the way it is. That's not
going to happen. This property is zoned light industrial, I worry about our agriculturally zoned
properties and watching them turn into you know all our incredibly important rich topsoil on
prime agricultural sites being put under pressure for development with solar technology, wind
technology, battery technology where do you think it's going to go you know, where there's
neighborhoods and houses. So we got a lot of caveats here to look at and a lot of things we
have to look to for the future as well. We can't ignore the kind of energy crisis we're faced
with because it is a crisis we all know that I think. Nobody wants to see anyone deal with fuel
up in you know up in the clouds. So what are we talking about what kind of toxin is it this one
or is it that one. We're going to have to just figure this out as we go along. Pat's absolutely
right, we don't have all the answers by any means but with your help we'll look for them. We
aren't going to make any precipitous decisions till we're pretty convinced of what's the right
the more correct let's say this is not a hundred percent right, what's the best right we can find
at the time. Was there a question that we, we needed answers about the sound I think.
JOEL RICHARDSON : So we performed a sound study a model with the sound barriers. The
nearest residential receptors the delta between ambient conditions and the developed
conditions one of the six locations we studied was one decibel which is non-distinguishable to
the human ear. The equipment itself ranges the main power transformer and other
equipment have different sound levels anywhere from eight five to ninety three decibels that
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if you were standing immediately adjacent to it at the property line with the sound barrier the
decibels would be no greater than fifty five decibels but on average fifty decibels.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So how noisy is that in human terms?
JOEL RICHARDSON : I'm a civil engineer I'm not an acoustical engineer but in general from
information that I'm aware of from the D.E.C. anywhere from a one to three decibel change or
increase in the volume the loudness is really not something that the human ear can
necessarily discern. Somewhere between three and six decibels is something that would I
have the information in here, something it's a minor concern. Anything over six decibels is
where you get into increases that would need to be potentially mitigated. So fifty to I think I
used to know this like the sound of a lawn mower and something like that is like seventy five
decibels or something like that but don't quote me on that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well we'll need an acoustical engineer .
JOEL RICHARDSON : We have an acoustical report that was prepared and submitted and is
part of the EAF it's incorporated in (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think the Planning Board is going to have to look at that very
carefully as part of the SEAR process. Mostly unless I'm wrong, I think what I learned the last
go around, most of the noise is because there are fans installed that essentially cool the
batteries.
PHIL DENARA : That's correct (inaudible) aggregate the fans that are part of the battery
container. In this case it's not actually a fan. Just to reiterate, there's different types of
product design here but a lot of the fires that have been mentioned especially in Arizona were
actually sited in buildings. The (inaudible), away from that design for a number of reasons
including fire safety which is why those incidences occurred. Now moving towards the
containerized system which we proposed which can either be a side mounted HVAC unit
which is forced air cooled. In this case we're proposing a liquid cooling technology so there
would be a pump, no fan noises but there would be a pump associated with moving the liquid
coolant through the battery modules. (inaudible) like antifreeze which you would expect
today.
CHRIS SHASTKIN : (inaudible) is a type of radiation from the overhead power lines are
electrically give off radiation cancer causing, is there any radiation given off by the battery
storage?
PHIL DENARA : No (inaudible) radiation that we're aware of, standard (inaudible) no studies
that (inaudible).
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay thank you for your questions. Is there anybody on Zoom? Let
them in please.
NICK O'MARA : Thank you for the time and the spirited debate here. I'm a lifetime resident of
Oregon Rd. and funnily enough I used to be terrified to ride my bike down the hill by this
proposed site. You heard my parents Kevin and Alex speak a few minutes ago, they were at
my wedding this past June and as I think about growing. My family with my wife watching our
kids grow up riding their bikes down Oregon Rd. is something that we very much look forward
to. In my day job I'm actually an investor in an advisor to a renewable energy company such as
Clear Way Energy and Eolion as well as a few other national power and energy providers. I
reviewed hundreds of sites for renewable energy (inaudible) development throughout my
career. They typically have three attractive features, they're adjacent to power generation,
they're adjacent to demand or load or there's access to legacy electrical infrastructure. With
this site there's actually none of those three hallmarks of an attractive project. There's no
generation nearby to this project. The closest generation is again some speculative offshore
wind off the south fork nowhere near where this storage unit would interconnect with those
generation turbines. There's no load, the North Fork is not exactly an industrial powerhouse.
The majority of the electrical demand I would guess is originating towards Riverhead. Three,
there's no legacy electrical infrastructure. The proposal calls for the building of a substation
rather than using an existing substation which leaves me to really believe that there's one sort
of outcome here which is it's an attractive the developer see it as an attractive financial
investment. It's not exactly attached to a public utility. I've heard the question why this
location and I can tell you the exact reason why, there's cheap land, unsuspecting land owners
who have commercial or industrial zoned land are often approached by local experts who sell
the zoning information to renewable developers. This happens across the country and more
unscrupulous developers use this tactic as a defining business practice. I'm not exactly familiar
with Key Capture of their safety records but in looking at their website this would be the
largest project that they've built in the state of New York by a facture of almost three X. They
have an aggressive development pipeline in New York and I can't say with total confidence
that I believe in their ability to safely execute this project at this scale and given the number of
environmental concerns that we have. It's more of a comment than a question but to me this
seems like there's no clear beneficiary to the North Fork besides the pockets of Key Capture
Energy. Thanks.
PHIL DENARA : Thank you Nick for your comments and also I admire that you are investing in
renewable energy industry. I took three separate bullet points, proximity to existing
transmission infrastructure, load and potential (inaudible) generation typically today fossil or
peaker infrastructure. I'll start with the existing transmission infrastructure question. We
scoured the entire North Fork and ultimately determined that this was the most feasible
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
location for the project. Many folks opposed another proposed project in the town which was
immediately adjacent and proposed to interconnect into one of two substations on the North
Fork. Obviously there's a lot of sensitive receptors near those projects, wetlands and the
public lands noted so from a physical infrastructure perspective. This was actually the most
suitable site. We're paying additional money, we are going to pay for the LIPA substation that
needs to be built in order to site this project in the most appropriate location. We are paying
for the excess the additional transmission infrastructure and (inaudible) interconnection
substation that needs to be built for that specific reason. There was no other appropriately
sited location that we deemed to be fit for a project on the North Fork.
NICK O'MARA : To be clear you're recouping all of that (inaudible) not investment based
coming out (inaudible).
PHIL DENARA : At the end of the day this project only makes sense and is only deployed if it is
in (inaudible) best interests so I have to disagree with you there. We are you know ultimately
paying for those upgrades and it's going to have to be the most cost effective solution on a
(inaudible) cost of energy basis in order for this project to be deployed. In terms of your
second question regarding load, as I've previously mentioned the load on the North Fork is
between you know upwards of sixteen and seventy megawatts a day and going to increase
PSEG Long Island on behalf of LIPA (inaudible) request for information regarding locally sited
projects in the North Fork. I've also cited a peaker study, there's a clear need for energy
storage on the North Fork. I'm not going to reiterate my previous points. In terms of your last
point regarding citing a project next (inaudible) generation valid points, Key Capture is
developing a project next to a cool facility in Maryland, we are working with other (inaudible)
generators to site projects next to existing infrastructure that often time makes a lot of sense.
There is headroom in those locations on the grid, those are typically already (inaudible)
locations with environmental impacts it makes a lot of sense. In this case very similar to the
existing transmission infrastructure question, the peaker sites today are sited near sensitive
receptors, wetlands that make the proposed battery storage project at those sites likely
infeasible. I reiterate my point that we truly believe that this is a very feasible and appropriate
location for a project that is needed in this area.Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you, go ahead.
ALEXANDRA BERIN : I'm Alexandra Berin and I was not going to speak at all but I'll make it as
quick as possible. Many of you have lived here all your lives, my husband and I came here five
years ago looking to build a home and we were all over the North Fork and by accident we
came down Oregon Rd. so I said Oregon Rd. is beautiful and if you remember there used to be
sunflowers (inaudible) and vineyard you come down and it's a spring day and it was like
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
something hitting you in the face and saying this is it. We went back at least for two years
back and forth trying to decide where to build and back to the same spot. So we are people
that (inaudible) feasibly see any lights that would be put up and all I can say from my
standpoint cause it isn't just a greenbelt this place is the most (inaudible) place I've ever seen.
Friends come out from fancy places from the South Fork and say Oh My God I can't believe
you found this place. We feel so fortunate and with the neighbors in the area. I don't know
much about (inaudible) industry I'm not knowledgeable about technical details but I do know
that in the city fifty percent it was on the news last week fifty percent of fire departments said
fires now increased because of the bikes that people have all over the city and I do some real
estate work and they are now banning the bikes from being kept in any apartment buildings
and these are small, small batteries you're not talking Tesla, you're not talking about small
batteries. I heard somebody say oh there's water but the water leaches into the ground. This
is almost dark sky country here the most beautiful birds I've ever seen, the wildlife you put
any lights they say oh they won't be on they might be on, we might do this there's no sound
but yet we're going to put up a sound barrier. Why do you need that if there's no sound and
it's not going to disturb the locals. We'll put up a gate but at one point they said maybe there
will be barbed wire. So many uncertainties that I actually looked up the company and was
disturbed by everything I saw about it from a layman's point of view. As a person that came
down Depot Lane and saw the beauty of it there is light industrial and that's fine but this is a
monstrosity in my opinion from the fire safety, from the leaching in the ground and what it
could do to the aquifers from the explosive nature of it and lastly when I was looking to buy
an electric car the guy said wait a couple of years there'll be new technology this is going to be
all old. So things are changing very quickly and maybe if we wait longer there'll be something
or there'll be more knowledgeable and will be able to secure a site like this in a better way
wherever they put it. This is from all of us who really care. I came in from the city in pouring
rain yesterday a four hour drive just to be here because it is just devastated by even knowing
that this could be an option in our area that is so special. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Dave did you want to go ahead?
DAVE BERGEN : Dave Bergen, Cutchogue and I'm President of the Cutchogue Civic Association.
I'm not here to speak for or against this application I'm here to listen as I know you are. I think
a lot of the environmental concerns that have been brought up I believe that Leslie has said
the Lead Agency is the Planning Board for this, so I encourage everybody who has
environmental concerns to attend the Planning Board session because they are the Lead
Agency when it comes to the environmental concerns. They need to hear your comments.
(inaudible) was emergency management and I was happy to hear the Fire Department was
represented here today. What I haven't heard is at least mentioned at all, I think the
leadership of the Police Department should be involved and I believe Lloyd Reisenberg is the
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
head of Emergency Management for the Town of Southold and I think he should be involved
in providing comments or feedback regarding this matter. I also think that I know this Board
the Zoning Board works with Chapter 280 and that the code is very specific and part of the
frustration the Boards have in making decisions is they're obligated to work with the code that
they're under so for the public I'd also encourage you to bring a lot of your concerns to the
Town Board since the Town Board is the one that creates the codes for the Board's utilization
in determining these types of matters. So really a lot of this information has got to go to the
Town Board. I would just close with asking this Board regarding the matters that are before
them specifically some amendments that are excuse me exceptions that are being requested.
While you have to sit with Chapter 280 in making your decisions to also think about a lot of
the issues that have been brought up meaning your interpretation of the use of 280 and how
it affects the public in the immediate area of Cutchogue. Thank you.
MORGAN ZUHOSKI EVANS : Hi my name is Morgan Zuhoski Evans, I am a local born and raised
out here (inaudible) my brother Ian Zuhoski. I leave the questions to him, I just want to I feel
much the same as Nick does. Born and raised out here my family has been farming for a
hundred years on Oregon Rd. same with McBrides (inaudible). I grew up outdoor (inaudible)
running into the field with no shoes on jumping in mud puddles and I envision that for my
children as well and I know my brother does. It's not change that I'm afraid of it's just wanting
to keep things beautiful on the North Fork and you know we've adopted very well. We saw
after COVID a lot of people come in from New York City out here, why? Not because they
wanted big buildings and concrete but because they wanted the beauty and Oregon Rd. is
part of that.
IAN ZUHOSKI : My name is Ian Zuhoski. I've taken a stand the past couple of years to purchase
some land on the North Fork and continue to grow our family farm that's been a hundred
years next year and that's just one location. We own further up the street on Oregon
(inaudible). I'm involved in Duck Unlimited, land preservation. It's huge (inaudible) this entire
country and as Morgan said there's a lot of (inaudible) out there but I think we have to be
more proactive than reactive. I feel that if the county and the town can push any IA system
why can't we push solar on homes? Why can't we subsidize that instead of ruining some
farmland to this to something that is not proven? I'm going to continue to what I can as we
said there's a lot of (inaudible) out there and we put this together within the past few days
really as somehow this whole process got fast tracked and hopefully we'll bring a larger crowd
on Monday and there's a lot of ways that we can (inaudible) from this. The Board the locals as
well and I just want to say thank you for all your consideration, the time, the money spent and
thank you for the town.
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anybody else in the audience? I don't think there's anybody on
Zoom anymore. Would you like to make any other comments, the applicants?
JOHN ANZALONE : I'll be brief. Obviously we've heard the.comments of the community with
respect to safety as Phil noted we will be submitting a very detailed third party analysis with
respect to the risks involved and how things are mitigated and what happens under
circumstances where there's thermal runaway a very exhaustive study that will be submitted
before this (inaudible) we request obviously this Board review before it takes any action. For
most of the comments were addressed by Phil so I'm not going to repeat them. With respect
to the comments regarding the interpretation of the use, there is a law case law with respect
to how a public utility use is interpreted. It is not strictly a use such as Con Edison or PSEG, it's
also been interpreted for instance to include wind power upstate as well as cell towers. Cell
towers have been deemed a public utility under New York State law even though they are in
direct competition with one another. With respect to the Special Permit conditions again I
submitted a memorandum with respect to that and I stand by it. With respect to obviously
visibility mitigated by the reduction of on-site poles by placing them under ground. Noise
attenuation was studied and was referenced that we didn't know noise was going to be. We
know how noisy will be, we know it will comply at the property boundaries with the town
code. We also know that lighting will not be used at night except in an emergency situations
which are rare. Routine maintenance is done during the day. Five factors are what they are,
my statement in my memo again I stand by that. Again you know there are (inaudible) that we
can consider except for the variances. We've already noted that we can comply with the
height with respect by placing (inaudible) towers and replace with underground utilities. As I
noted during my testimony we could reduce the height of the lightning mass where we just
need more of them. That's a trade-off that the Board can consider whether they want us to
comply with the town's height ordinance which results in more lightning mass. Obviously 280
was addressed and (inaudible) setback variance yeah there is conceivably alternative create a
situation where we separate the substations, the answer is yes but again it creates less
reliability and that particular variance is visible by no one. It's not visible by any property, it's
blocked by the existing vegetation that exists from Depot in that particular area. It will be
blocked by the vegetation that's being proposed and will be blocked by the energy storage
systems itself from Oregon. With respect to the buffer around the facility itself we do
obviously Joel and his team can take a look at that to see if there's a way they can make it
better or maybe more evergreens if this Board would prefer. Maybe we'll ask that opinion of
the Planning Board and we'll get their feedback as well. With respect to setback to the I guess
it's the transfer station which I believe is operated by North Fork Sanitation, the setback from
the use is approximately 300 about 400 feet and that goes to it's in the corner of the block or
actually it abuts that block and that are is separated by like 360 feet where the applicant is not
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
developing, much of it has already been cleared there's an existing wooded area beyond the
clearing that's also being maintained. Then there's separation with the 20 feet of RCA for the
roadway and 20 feet of RCA inside the BESS modules itself. With that being said we
respectfully request this Board to reserve decision and we will address the subject to us filing
the hazard mitigation report addressing all the various safety issues that have been raised.
Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you. Clearly there's a great deal at stake in this application
and there will be more of them so we want to make sure we get everything right. I was
thinking we might close but now I'm thinking based upon the number of technical
memorandum that are in our file that most people have not had a chance to look at and
probably a number of people who were here or are here would like to probably (inaudible)
would like to share the information you found out today with other members of the
association so I think at the very least I'm going to ask the Board how would you feel if we
adjourn this to the Special Meeting in two weeks which then would give everyone an
opportunity you can submit your additional information and you'll have a chance to look at it.
We'll put it on Laserfiche so everybody else can have a chance to look at it and remember that
the public hearing before the Planning Board is December 5th coming up very soon. We work
very closely with the Planning Board, I'll be sitting in the audience there listening to what
happens again if not I'll be on Zoom but in any case what do you think should we just do that
and then see what comes out of that?That way people can write written comments, it's not a
hearing that we're scheduling particularly but we're going to likely just close this in two
weeks.
JOHN ANZALONE : Just to be clear to make sure I'm very clear about this, I spoke to Mr.
Denara to confirm, that report that we talked about will not be completed in two weeks. So
we
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh fine then what we can do is adjourn it do you think it would be
a month or maybe longer? What I want to do is not adjourn it without a date because that's
complicated. Then you have to keep reposting and I would rather adjourn it to a date right
now so that the public knows what that date is going to be and we all know what the timeline
is. We could adjourn it to the Regular Meeting, we can adjourn it to January which is a very,
very busy month but not necessarily need another public hearing, we could do it into February
then we'll be sure that that report is done. What do you think?
PHIL DENARA : What's the date in January?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : For hearings well it's full for hearings but if we don't need another
hearing if we got everything in writing and we got comments from Planning and you know
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December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
enough public input is taking place we will just close it then and then we will have sixty two
days in which time we have to write a decision. We generally do that much more quickly but
with complicated decisions it takes us a little longer than the usual two weeks cause we meet
twice a month. So we usually try to do things quickly but we do have up to sixty two days to
write up the decision. So if we adjourn it to January the intent here would be to close in
January not necessarily hold another public hearing. If we think we need to
BOARD ASSISTANT : Special
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : In January?
BOARD ASSISTANT : The 191h
PHIL DENARA : That's fine the 19th of January is probably perfect.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The Special Meeting you're all welcome you can be on Zoom or in
person at the Annex upstairs. That's where we deliberate, it's not a public hearing, you can
just listen to us talk about decisions we're about to vote on that's called a Special Meeting.
There's no testimony taken but it's open for you to listen to us, we will be reviewing drafts
decisions that we've already got written. We won't have a decision on this one at all but we'll
be prepared to close it at that time assuming we get all the material we need to get.
MEMBER DANTES : You guys have to have a meeting with the Cutchogue Fire Department to
clarify the issues they have with you guys? If the Cutchogue Fire Department comes out and
says that it's impossible for them to fight this fire it's going it'll be an issue for the Special
Exception so
PHIL DENARA : Understood, we do typically meet with Fire Departments prior to even
submitting an application but this is an unusual circumstance given the change of the Fire
Marshall. I understand (inaudible) but in this case we're following guidance from the Planning
Department but understood and we've heard their comments and we look forward to
working with them.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let's put it this way, if you are unable to meet with the local Fire
Department by January 19th we can adjourn it once again until you have until we receive their
comments okay. Did you want to ask or say something sir?
TIM HILL : Yes just respectfully requesting that a hearing be kept open and continued so that
when it does come back on there would be (inaudible) because the public is here. You said
that there's going to be substantial submissions between now and then so I think it would be
fair so to have an opportunity to digest that and respond to.
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well by adjourning it to another date it doesn't preclude that we
would, we have a choice of either holding another public hearing adjourning it to another
date where a second public hearing would take place and if the information we receive
warrants that that's what we'll do. It depends on what we get in and it also depends on the
Planning Board. So it's just giving us options.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : It gives them opportunity to write.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yeah we will be in between now and then anything you want to
submit or anybody wants to submit in writing is possible. So if anyone wasn't here, you want
to talk to them about it fine they have a chance to send us something in writing including you
know you. I would like them to meet with the Fire Department and see what comes of that. It
will have an impact and then we'll see what your safety analysis says and we'll decide
whether we have everything we need to close or we'll hold another hearing and then take it
from there.
TIM HILL : I appreciate that, for the record I understand those are your options and you'll do
what you do but I believe that some of the public that are familiar with the preference would
be to have another public hearing.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I understand and that may well be what happens. Let me talk to
the Planning Board also you know and as I said we work in collaboration and it works out
much better for everybody for applicants, for the public you know for us to be collaborating
together to make sure we're all moving forward together on this. Okay Board, so we'll adjourn
this to the Special Meeting on January 19th. Is there a second?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. Thank you for your time and all of your comments. Motion to
close the meeting.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye
MEMBER DANTES : Aye
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. Liz stop recording and shut the meeting down please.
December 1, 2022 Regular Meeting
CERTIFICATION
I Elizabeth Sakarellos, certify that the foregoing transcript of tape recorded
Public Hearings was prepared using required electronic transcription
equipment and is a true and accurate record of Hearings.
Signature
Elizabeth Sakarellos
DATE : December 15, 2022