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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-10/18/2022 PH 1 COUNTY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW YORK TOWN OF SOUTHOLD -------------------------------------------------- TOWN OF SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD REGULAR MEETING -------------------------------------------------- Southold, New York October 18 , 2022 4 : 30 P . M . B E F 0 R E : SCOTT A . RUSSELL, SUPERVISOR LOUISA P . EVANS , JUSTICE JILL DOHERTY, COUNCILWOMAN BRIAN 0 . MEALY, COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI , COUNCILMAN SARAH E . NAPPA, COUNCILWOMAN October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 2 ISERMAN PROPERTY CONSERVATION EASEMENT NOTICE RESOLVED that pursuant to the provisions of Chapter 185 ( Open Space Preservation) of the Town Code, the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby sets Tuesday, October 18 , 2022 , at 4 : 30 P .M . , Southold Town Hall , 53095 Main Road, Southold, New York as the time and place for a public hearing for the acquisition by gift of a conservation easement on land totaling approximately 0 . 48 acres from the Peconic Land Trust, Inc . ( Property f/k/a Iserman Property n/k/a Soundview Avenue Preserve ) . Said property is identified as SCTM #1000-59 . -8-2 . The address of the property is 6480 Soundview Avenue, Southold . The property is located within the Low-Density Residential R-80 Zoning District . The proposed conservation easement will preserve, in perpetuity, the natural habitat and the open, undeveloped, and scenic condition of the property . Any and all costs associated with the donation of this conservation easement to the Town of October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 3 Southold will be paid for using Land Preservation Department funding for recording fees . As per Chapter 117 ( Transfer of Development Rights ) of the Code of the Town of Southold, Section 117-7 , the Land Preservation Coordinator and the Town Board have reviewed the acquisition and have determined that sanitary flow credits will not be transferred from this property . FURTHER NOTICE is hereby given that a more detailed description of the above-mentioned parcel of land is on file in the Land Preservation Department, Southold Town Hall Annex, 54375 Main Road (Route 25 ) , Southold, New York, and may be examined by any interested person during business hours . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I am going to invite anybody that would like to address the Town Board? MS . MELISSA SPIRO : Hi . Good afternoon . My name is Melissa Spiro, the Southold Land Preservation Coordinator . As described in the public notice, this is a October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 4 small yet important property . It ' s just under half an acre . It ' s located in close proximity to the Town and County Open Space Soundview Dunes Park and Peconic Dunes County Park . There is some maps up front and I think she is putting them there . Within the vicinity and the geographical area of west of Gold Smith Inlet to the west to the Great Pond to the east . And it ' s connected by vegetation and maritime freshwater swales and areas of significant natural habitant . Holly Sanford from the Peconic Land Trust will explain in a couple of minutes , the trust work with neighboring land owners and contributed funds to the trust . So that the trust could acquire the property . The Town has a small lot policy, which supports presentation of some small parcels as this matter . The trust is now offering to donate a conservation easement on the property and protected in its natural state and perpetuity . And we ' re donating that to the Town at no cost . Land Preservation Committee has reviewed this project and supports the Town Board ' s October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 5 accepting the easement donation by the Peconic Land Trust . In addition to thanking the Peconic Land Trust, I would like to thank Holly Sanford for all the work she did to make this project happen . And now I will turn it over to Holly . Thank you . MS . HOLLY SANFORD : Thank you, Melissa . Holly Sanford, Peconic Land Trust, Senior Project Manager . As Melissa mentioned, this is a parcel located in a environmentally sensitive area . It was first brought to the Trust ' s attention by neighboring resident Lizzy Hands . She along with other residents wanted to protect this parcel so that it could contribute not only to the scenic vista along Soundview Avenue, but also remain as a natural habitat for flower and fauna . Part of this land ' s viability is due to it being connected to an internal freshwater swales . Conservation Biologist Louise Harrison, submitted a letter to the Southold Town Trustees dated October 10 , 2020 enumerating the abundant wetlands and uplands vegetative species . Noting for a small parcel , this lot contains October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 6 a rich diversity if plaid species . The high diversity is unusual in a time when our North Fork native vegetation is threatened by high levels of deer house . The location of this parcel is significant . It is part of the native forest corridor and ancient communal lands supporting freshwater wetlands . The Trustee letter also states that the corridor connects three county parks , Gold Smith Inlet County Park, Soundview Dunes County Park and Peconic Dunes County Park . Along the corridor spans east from Elle Lane in Peconic towards the eastern end of Soundview Avenue . Fortunately, due to the communities enthusiasm and financial support, the Trust was given to purchase this undisturbed property on February 12 , 2021 , which was on the market as a residential parcel with development potential . We know respectfully respect that the Town accept our easement donation so the land may be ensured protection in perpetuity . We would also like to thank the Land Preservation Committee for supporting our request and October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 7 Melissa Spiro for guiding the project for your consideration . It is important to note that the Civic Initiative predated the Kohler project, which you all participated in and we greatly appreciate . This little project inspired residents and acted as a model for the community driven conservation . Within the Trust, this project is referred to as the "Little Engine That Could . " It is a small lot that has had big impact on moving conservative initiatives forward . So we thank you very much and request that you accept our donation today . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Would anybody like to address the Town Board on this particular Public Hearing? MS . PATRICIA MOORE : Patricia Moore on behalf of myself . I commend the Peconic Land Trust, Melissa and the Board for entertaining this donation . This is a wonderful private initiative, but I always welcome the support because it ' s private individuals in the Land Trust that voluntarily sterilizing the property . What I did hear in the description was that there October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 8 was no going to be no sanitary credits for this lot if I understood correctly . I think that is something that is a shame that we ' re not preserving the sanitary credits . Any chance that we get to create a -- a transfer or land bank for sanitary credits is part of our pool of sanitary credits for supportive Affordable Housing . If the legislation gets adopted and there is the extra half of percent for Affordable, our limitation on providing Affordable has always been based on sanitary . So the preservation of sanitary credits is going to be crucial . And it ' s a win-win here . It ' s moving potential sanitary from what has been described as a sensitive area . But it will be then used consistent with the Board ' s policies and Affordable Housing initiatives . So that would be my only comment as far as considering preserving the sanitary credit, but otherwise, it ' s a wonderful program. And I know I have clients that have done wills and estate planning and I have provided for donations to Peconic Land Trust and the potential donation of lands for October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 9 preservation . So again, a homeowner or private property owner wants to do that, we should encourage it . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . MS . MELISSA SPIRO : Hi . I would just like to address the sanitary flow credit . The Town Board did wish to transfer the sanitary flow credit ; however, this parcel has wetlands on it . And when calculated the buildable land it was less than 20 , 000 square feet . And the sanitary flow credit legislation, wouldn ' t allow for credits less than 20 , 000 square feet . The way that is worded . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . Who else would like to address the Town Board on this particular Public Hearing? (No Response ) . JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : I make a motion to close the Public Hearing . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Second . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in favor? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye . COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye . October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 10 COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye . JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye . (Whereupon, this Iserman Property Conservation Easement Public Hearing concluded at this time . ) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * CHAPTER 280 - MAXIMUM HOUSE SIZE WHEREAS , under Resolution Number 2022-719 there was presented to the Town Board of the Town of Southold, Suffolk County, New York, on the 23rd day of August, 2022 , a Local Law entitled "A Local Law in relation to Amendments to Chapters 280 " and . WHEREAS , under Resolution Number 2022-719 there was presented to the Town Board of the Town of Southold, Suffolk County, New York, on the 23rd day of August, 2022 , a Local Law entitled "A Local Law in relation to Amendments to Chapters 280 " and WHEREAS , The Town Board of the Town of Southold has determined that it is necessary to amend the proposed Local Law entitled, "A Local Law in relation to October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 11 Amendments to Chapter 280 " as described therein, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby amends resolution #2022-729 adopted at the August 23 , 2022 meeting, to read as follows : RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold will hold a public hearing on the aforesaid Local Law at Southold Town Hall , 53095 Main Road, Southold, New York, on the 18th day of October, 2022 at 4 : 31 p .m . , at which time all interested persons will be given an opportunity to be heard . . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Okay . I think I know the answer, but I would like to invite anybody who would like to speak to the Local Law . And we have a lot of people here and we have a lot on Zoom. So I am going to alternate back and forth as best as I can . So everybody has a chance . I am going to ask everybody when you had your opportunity to speak, please let everybody else speak . If you want to say something else, it will come at the end of comments . October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 12 MS . PATRICIA MOORE : Thank you . This is the second time I am speaking on this . It was before the Public Hearing for the first time . And there was some tweaking of the code . But it ' s still substantially in the same grammar and language that was the first time around . Just technically, I was looking at the definition of your floor area gross . And when we ' re dealing with accessory structure, you are also including the gross floor area . What you ' re first excluding is accessory structures from the calculations , except any portion thereof that may be converted to habitable space . Doesn ' t mean that it ' s being converted to habitable space and the fact that it could have been seems to be triggering inclusion in the gross floor area . And when you ' re dealing with accessory structures , that could mean the difference between conforming and nonconforming . So read the definition carefully on that . If for example, someone has an acces to the build enough that they can convert to an accessory apartment . That process is going to go to the Zoning Board October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 13 for approval anyway . So it ' s not necessary to deal with it as a presumption of nonconformity or nonconforming to the extent that it ' s added to the gross area . You kind of wait until something does something with the space and then if it does , it might trigger Zoning Board and might already be going to Zoning Board for a particular application . So I think it ' s even creating even greater nonconformity, which is my biggest concern with this law in general . So what I did was , I belong to Southold Voice, as you know, and we have five Board members . I just took their houses including mine, and did an analysis of those five houses . I take five only because they ' re Board members and I knew they wouldn ' t even have any objections if I did . So when I did that, first I did it under the -- with the Assessor ' s -- from an Assessor ' s Records information only because the Building Department references that initially . And I thank you for making the Building Department ' s records available . That clarified a whole bunch of information . October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 14 Just what I found is when I was taking the Assessor ' s Records , I found that 2 out of the 3 files , the size of the property was incorrectly identified . The Assessor ' s had it being 30 , 000 square feet but it was in fact, twenty something, which affected the floor area calculation based on if you ' re -- based on the size of the lot . So right off the bat, the Assessor ' s Records is a terrible benefit of trying to analyze a project to confirm whether you conform or don ' t conform. So in part, we ' re using it then for variances and it ' s going to be a lot of incorrect information . So then I went back -- that took -- for five homes , it took me probably 2 1 /2 hours to compile . That was a lot of time . Nobody was paying me, but that was okay . It was a process and education . Then today, I brought it all back up and I pulled up the Building Department records . And again, I had to correct all of my analysis because when I -- 4 out of the 5 houses , I found to be nonconforming to the floor area calculations based on accurate information from the October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 15 Building Department, 3 out of the 5 had already gotten variances at some point in time in the last 10 or 15 years . So the Zoning Board, when it had the house, whether it was a an addition or new house or whatever was being done and at the time everybody -- the Zoning Board had to act on the application . So they already looked at the size of the house and the impact on the neighborhood . This law wasn ' t necessary . The houses were being reviewed under standard area variance criteria . And in my cases it ' s because of problems with our code that I have been trying to get fixed forever . And I ask you to please concentrate on what needs fixing rather than adding more regulations and layers . But that is a side comment . These variances were generally needed because the way the code reads the lot, which one acre zoning plopped over -- and then with the setback regulations plopped over a lot that was preexisting to maybe a half acre in size . It impacts the side yard setbacks . So right away, the side yard, front yard, whatever . October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 16 Than to add misery to that process , the wetlands that are affect the property, affect the buildable area . So let me be real simple because it ' s a little technical . You have a property that may start as an acre . Let me clarify . A lot that is a half acre in a one acre zoning district creates artificial large size setbacks that no one can meet . Then you add a third layer, which is the buildable lot definition . So the half acre now has wetlands that impacts the size of the property and now the buildable area is a quarter acre . You know still have the overlay of the one acre criteria, the setbacks . So you have -- so you have applications for the Zoning Board based on the overlays of regulations . That should be fixed before you add all of this to the code . Let me now go to sky plane because that was just the floor area ratio that I found out of five houses . Four were nonconforming . Figure that in a community where we have mostly nonconforming you know, one acre lots and two acre lots and relatively new creations . And most October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 17 subdivisions don ' t have that size lots . They mostly have been clustered to be smaller or they ' re starting out smaller . It ' s tremendous workload on the Building Department, on the Zoning Board, on the community, on the surveyors and architects . This is just going to snowball into a bigger headache . Now as far as sky plane . That is a trick . And I have to admit, I used the surveys and the elevations that were in the piles that I could figure out . But when I went to the 10 foot and made the 45 angle, hell , if I could tell what part of the house -- I could tell just visually because I am good with that . I can see a part of the roof line was nonconforming but what it was , beyond my pay grade . And I can tell you that any architect that is local , they already have plenty of work . They don ' t need extra . And good luck with anybody trying to find an architect if you -- this kind of tedious information . So all and all -- and I asked the Board because I had just changed everything and what I thought conforming had become nonconforming with the October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 18 floor plans . I wanted to make sure that I had permission from everybody to submit it . So if I do get permission to submit it, I will submit the data . But in fairness and privacy and even though it ' s all public record, I think -- I would want permission before I submit it . But I have it all documented . And I would be happy to present it . I think that we have a -- we have a problem that doesn ' t exist . Every community and I know my own house, which I wish had not been built in their community, which we think is kind of out of character and it ' s not very attractive . It ' s a matter of personal opinion . You know, everybody to each is own . We have so many regulations already that most of the gross floor area and those calculations are already being addressed today, we don ' t know what examples or I don ' t know what examples have been presented to this Board to prompt this regulation . I know there was -- there is community involvement . There has been push from this Board . This is what I do on a dairy basis and it ' s very frustrating October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 19 because it takes 6 to 8 weeks to get a Notice of Disapproval . It takes 6 months to get on the Zoning Board Hearing . It takes 3 months to get a survey . It takes sometimes 3 to 4 months to get drawings . It ' s all very nice, but in practice, it ' s not nice . It ' s a very tedious , very -- overreaching is not the word because, you know, you can adopt it but whether it ' s the right thing to do, I really question . So I thank you for the opportunity to make my points . I hope you don ' t adopt it . And if you do, I just hope you will not enter it very carefully because right now the Zoning Board is crazy . The line that you have to stand in to get a hearing . And then when you ' re there, the kind of process and review that you ' re getting is very -- sometimes very difficult . So I wouldn ' t want to wish that on any of your neighbors . Because believe me, you would take your own house and take -- and apply this , you may find your own nonconforming . And by the way, you guys just increased the Zoning Board application fees , which I previously objected to you October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 20 taking it out of a Public Hearing process . You adopted it by resolution . So all our application fees are now significantly higher . So it ' s going to cost everybody a lot more . I wish you rethink this . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I am going to take somebody else from the room and then I will go to my first Zoom comment . Who else would like to address the Town Board? MS . MARGARET STEINBUGLER : Good evening . I am Margaret Steinbugler . I live on Cedar Beach Road in Southold . Thank you Supervisor Russell and the Town Board for giving me the opportunity to speak about this proposed change, Chapter 280 . You might be aware that the coalition of the North Fork Civics of Southold recently conducted a survey of the residents in the Town in July . I have helped with compiling the results . And I wanted to talk a little bit about some of the survey results that touch on this proposed code change . We had over a thousand responses to our survey . So quite a good chunk of our residents . We asked people about their concerns and what October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 21 they felt that the Town should work on in the next two years . If we look at the concerns that people emphasize, the Top 2 , whether it was by saying it ' s essential that we work on them and concern . The Top 2 were overdevelopment and cleanliness of the Bay ' s and the Long Island Sound . I think that requiring reasonably sized houses is very supportive of the residents concerns about overdevelopment . And I think requiring reasonably sized houses is also addressing the concerns about the cleanliness in the Bays and the Sound . Because much of the -- pressure -- the environmental pressure on the Bays and the Sound comes from waste from homes . I want to go to portion of the survey that asks people, What should the Town work on in the next two years? We gave people 22 choices of topics or issues that we, as a community could work on . We asked them to say these are "essential , very important, semi important or not at all important . " If I tally up all the answers that were essential and very important, the Top 3 topics were -- with over 92% in the October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 22 first two cases -- the Top 2 topics were over 920 of the people said, it ' s essentially very important for preservation of natural habitats and preservations of farms and open space . The third topic, which got 90o responses but essentially very important, was preservation of rural character . In that question, we allowed people to throw out as many "essential ' s " and very important ' s " as they wanted . We then asked the same question in a different way . We said, if you had to pick out of these 22 things , what are you Top 3 ? You can ' t say that everything is essential . You can only pick 3 . The Top 3 that people selected were, preservation of farms and open spaces , Number 1 . Preservation of habitats , Number 2 . Limit house size was Number 3 . 750 of the responses indicated that limiting house size in their perspective, in their opinion, the essential or very important . So it seems to me that the survey results indicate a very strong community support for this code change . I will add, that in addition to asking some October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 23 very specific questions , we gave people three or four different opportunities to just put in free form comments . Tell us what you ' re concerned about in your own words . We have hundreds of comments . I went through them. There were 50 -- 51 related to house size . So I have 9 samples here for you . Some sample comments . " I am concerned about the size of houses being built on small lots . I want normal size houses for the neighborhood . Limit the height and size of houses . I am concerned about house size in proportion to lot size . I am very seriously concerned about gigantic houses , which destroy the visible old character of our Town and all of Southold Town and Mattituck . I am concerned about protecting the environment and limiting size of houses being built . I want to see homes kept nicely and not have builders have destroy small houses to put up unaffordable oversized homes . Let ' s keep the character of the North Fork . I am concerned about huge and/or inappropriate building projects , including single family homes . I am October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 24 concerned about maintaining historic character and establishing size parameters of homes limiting number of houses . " So lot of free form comments where people spontaneously expressed concerns about house size . I believe this change of code has been under consideration for one to two years . So there have been discussions in the community about this change . It ' s not coming up as a surprise . If folks responding to the survey had concerns about limiting house size, they could have put that in the comments . They could have indicated so in the survey . There were zero comments in the survey voicing any concerns or objections to limiting house size . There were no comments that said let me build anything I want on my lot . There was nothing like that . So I guess -- I would conclude based on the survey and the survey data over thousand responses , there is very strong support for this code change . Personally I support it . I respectfully ask the Town Board to support it as well . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : We will October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 25 now go to Zoom. MR . NIKOS THEODASOPOUL : I will be brief . The first speaker said a lot of what I was going to say . In my view, the law is swinging the pendulum to long . We already have multiple footprint requirements , property setbacks . In addition, people like me have other non-legal requirements , which further induces the types of homes I can build or others can build on their property . I do agree, some of the new homes are, you know, not character . The house on New Suffolk looks like an Amazon warehouse . I get it . So adding the square footage limitation, in my opinion should be sufficient . That is what we want to do . We want to limit the size of the homes . Adding square footage and side plane is ( inaudible ) . It will make many lots difficult to build on . I would like to highlight that the new law looks like the average square footage of homes including attached garages and covered decks and other items . At other meetings , the Board and residents used data from Zillow and MLS to October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 26 calculate average house size of homes recently sold in the Town . But these listings on Zillow and MLS ( inaudible ) square footage . For example, a house that has 2 , 500 square foot on Zillow, also has a two car garage and a small covered deck in the backyard, would count as over 3 , 000 square feet . That is what the new law is requiring . It ' s not the house size . It ' s the attached garage and covered decks . So it ' s already restricted . Adding the sky plane on top of it, is really over kill . I would also like to say on the sky plane, like the first people spoke about, there is a geometric formula, which requires surveyors to come out and that is very complicated . Costs money . You got to go on other people ' s property sometimes . It ' s not that easy . But there is language, the Building Inspector has discretion based on homes within 500 feet on each side . Once you add discretion to the law, that leaves open the possibility, appeals , losses and other legal action . I don ' t think we want to spend our taxpayers dollars on legal October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 27 battles on what the Building Inspector has determined at their discretion . So in summary, if you want to reduce the size of the lot on some of these homes are too big, limit the lot size, using the square footage . Get rid of the sky plane . Thank you for listening . I hope you agree with my opinion . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you very much . MS . ELLEN ZIMMERMAN : My name is Ellen Zimmerman . I am a waterfront property owner in East Marion . And I am very much in favor of the proposed amendment to Chapter 280 of the Town Code to limit house size . In my neighborhood in East Marion, I have seen what happens when oversized houses are built and what happens to the impacts on its neighbors . A smaller house next door, which was in scale with the other houses in the neighborhood was now dwarfed and deprived by sunlight from its giant neighbor . The harmony of the neighborhood was damaged affecting everyone who lives there . The contention on the changing of the Zoning October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 28 Building Codes that to put new restrictions on land owners , are what land owners can build on their property constitutes a violation of their property rights and species . The same owners who are making that argument would be screaming their complaints if zoning were suddenly removed and an entertainment complex was built and brought traffic and loud music to disturbed their peace . The preamble of the United States Constitution, this promoting the general welfare and not individual property rights for which our government is built . Zoning in general and house size specifically are tools used to protect the common good . They are needed for the Southold Town Comprehensive Plan adopted September 8 , 2020 . Mission statement calls for future planning to be consistent with the existing community character . Nearly 80o in the recent East Marion survey conducted by the North Fork Civics felt limiting house size was very important . Makes it clear that preserving the community is a concern for East Marion residents . The October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 29 Town must take action now to ensure that the unique characteristics that make Southold Town such a desirable place to live and not overrun by the pressures of this development . A change to our Zoning Code is long overdue . Thank you very much . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . Randy? MS . RANDY WADE : Just a little comment and thank you so much for doing this . I just wanted to clarify the sky plane because I think people -- COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Excuse me, Randy . Even though we know -- MS . RANDY WADE : Randy Wade, Greenport . So it ' s not for all the zones but the zones say for instance ( inaudible ) and R-400 already have setbacks that will -- what a sky plane does , is keep the 35 foot -- that is the height . You know, if it ' s a peak roof -- even if it ' s a peak roof, just on one size . So a 35 foot tall wall on your neighbors . So the question is , how close to the property line should that be? So the sky plane starts at 10 feet . That means 25 October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 30 feet from the property line . You can go up with your wall at 35 feet ; however, the zoning said, already have a minimum 30 foot setback . So you ' re not going to have your 35 foot wall . Just not going to be completely affected by this sky plane . Now other Town ' s have -- they start at 0 . So that doesn ' t make a difference . Then your 35 foot wall must be away from the property line . But we are not there yet . We ' re trying to see how this works . And then for AC and R- 80 , those zones , one side would be a 20 foot minimum. So your 35 foot wall would be 5 feet away . And then the other side is a 25 foot setback . So there would be no change . So on one side, yes . You would be back 5 feet . So on an R40 , that would be the biggest difference . On one side, you could have a 15 foot, 35 foot wall . This means that you would have to go back 15 foot farther . And then on the other, it would be a 25 foot minimum. Does that clarify it? It ' s not a big deal . Thank you so much . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I helped October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 31 draft the law and I am confused . MS . DRIANNE BRENNER : Hi , Supervisor Russell and Town Board members for having us here and having this Public Hearing tonight . My name is Drianne Brenner . I live in Orient . And I am a member of the Orient Association . In 2016, the Orient Community voted on nine community propositions and limiting house size was one . It was overwhelming support to limit house size . Just to set context and background . What I would like to address is this law to limit house size creates and preserves value and protects the community of Southold . A key goal of Southold residents . So what is value? So when buying a house it ' s value is based on the house itself, the land and the community itself . Value is the price you pay for something, which in the case of a house, it ' s highly dependent upon a location . It has created so much value in Southold, the beautiful and unspoiled nature of our historic hamlet centers and open rural vistas of farms , woods , bays . The human scale of these historic villages October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 32 reflects and embodies our community character . This is what draws people here . It is part of the heart and soul of this Town . And so it creates demand in value . Some might say that this law might diminish value by limiting house size, but by preserving the scale of our communities , this law will only enhance the value of our homes . What will destroy value on the other hand is building out of scale homes that do not fit in with the community . This will ruin the character of Southold and with it destroy value . Southold is a rare community on Long Island . Rural and beautiful place, which reflects decades of work done to preserve farmland and open space . Limiting house size is a continuation of this work . By building out of scale homes , you destroy the very community that the Town worked so hard to preserve . The statement in the Comprehensive Plan informs us that preserving community character is foremost in the minds of the residents . A recent survey, as you heard Margaret speak to and others , a recent community survey conducted October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 33 by the North Fork Civic Association reminds us of how important our natural resources and character and scale of communities are to residents . Ensuring that the built environment ( inaudible ) character of Southold . It will only enhance value for homeowners now and into the future . The communities that have limited house size, values have only continued to rise . We have seen dramatic evidence of that in the South Fork areas of the East End . By adopting this legislation, you will grow the value of Southold for years to come . This is about preserving and enhancing what we have today for the benefit of future community members . Thank you . MS . ANNE MURRAY : Hi . Anne Murray . I am a resident of East Marion . And I am also the Land Use Coordinator for the North Fork Environmental Counsel . I want to speak in both my roles , if I can . May of you know that I have worked on this issue from 2016 . Trying to get a Town Board to pay attention to what was really bubbling up in my hamlet of East Marion . Also in other areas of the October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 34 Town, which is people talking about, "oh my God, did you see that giant house that went up on the creek? Did you see that thing on the bay that is towering over its neighbors? " At the same time, the Town is working on the Comprehensive Plan which you know, community character is one of the essences of passing the Comprehensive Plan . So you put it all together . I think tonight is really crucial . The Town Board has been kicking this issue around now for 2 1/2 years now . I think that you have very good sense of what the public wants . It ' s the right thing for the environment . We don ' t need gigantic homes using thousands of gallons of our precious water from the aquifer . We don ' t need their nitrates from going into the bay . And also I would like to ask, do we know -- does the Town Clerk have a number of letters against this law or does the Town received many phone calls against it? I would venture to say there have been many, many letters and phone conversations in favor of it . So please listen to your community and pass this law . October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 35 Thank you . MR . CLAY COFFEE : Hello . My name is Clay Coffee . I am a local architect in the Town . I live on Main Bay View in Southold . I thank Pat . Her comments and breakdown from the business perspective -- one of the things that I would say, as I looked through the code, I think we can all agree, everyone here appreciates size restrictions . My real question is , how this impacts preexisting nonconforming houses ? And the process by which we apply for variances for that and the kind of timeframe it ' s currently taking to entertain variances and letters of rejections , all those types of things . So where we are now, when we apply for a building permit, it ' s a 6 weeks process . We get a letter of rejection . Then on top of that, it ' s a six month process to just get in front of the Zoning Board of Appeals . So those kinds of things , those kinds of delay in time is a real hardship for people working in it . All these things , we schedule our -- based on meetings , approvals and hearings . All these kinds of things . October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 36 So inevitably when we add more and more of what ' s going to happen, we will have an influx of people wanting to renovate or remodel their home or expand it . This is certainly going to create more need for variances . It ' s inevitable . There is a lot of preexisting nonconforming houses on preexisting nonconforming lots . Especially by water . Where anything that we do, will require -- so that is something I would ask you to take into consideration . I am not sure you have the answers for it, but that is something that I would like to bring up . There is two other things . One I noticed that basements are not going to be included in habitable square footage . I would say that we maybe need more clarity on that because similar to where the accessory structure could come habitable structure, a lot of basements are ( inaudible ) if that does then become part of the total habitable square footage of the space, I think that is something that we should understand up front . And two, it ' s the floor -- the floor area, the height of the building of the October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 37 exterior? Understand that it ' s a means by which reducing the overall footprint of the house . Right? The question I have in that is , how will that be implemented? Is that the interior roof? The vegan ( sic) aspect of the roof? Where does that 15 feet? How does that happen? How do we as architects and designers design to that basically? To that standard? Where we ' re trying to do valuated two-story space, but is that -- that is the question that we have . How do we define that? How do we council our clients to doing that or not doing that? Those are my comments . Thank you for your time . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . Who else would like to address the Town Board? MS . LAUREN GRANT : My name is Lauren Grant . I live in New Suffolk . Nice to see all of you again . Having came to New Suffolk 26 years ago, we were living in the smallest house, smallest plot of land in Cutchogue . And I was sitting in the living room across from my husband, and I said, October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 38 honey, it ' s time to move . So we were lucky enough to find a new house in New Suffolk . And living in New Suffolk an experience for most of us . And I had the pleasure starting a committee to preserve the Waterfront years ago when I was head of the Civics Association . That project was a pleasure for our community because we live on a waterfront that is a community means for anybody . Anybody can come out and have a wonderful time . I look around New Suffolk now on Jackson Street, and there is this beautiful old barn . Behind it, is a monstrosity of a house that is glass and stone . And then you have this old barn in front of it . Thank God they decided to save the barn . Walked down all the way down on Jackson Street . Around the corner is where they call the ( inaudible ) house where his wife built another ugly house about a half mile away . And there are these two monstrosities that are literally eyesores going up . Every time there is another addition . Another addition . It ' s not even fully built yet . It just goes on and on and October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 39 on . And I have to sit and wonder, how the hell did this happen in my ( inaudible ) . So I ask you to, if not law, work on something to preserve what we have in this Town . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . MS . BARBARA FRIEDMAN : My name is Barbara Friedman . I am an environmental architect . I am the current president of the Orient Association . At the last Public Hearing on June 21st, there were some objections to the proposed effective date of this code for projects . They were in late stages of planning of a design . As an architect, I was very sympathetic to this concern . But now it is four months later and I am less sympathetic . The Town Board has been discussing these changes publicly for over a year . And these parameters for gross floor area were established in November of last year . The only subsequent change was the potential to remove the absolute maximum from the code . I understand that it ' s a little bit difficult to understand the current involved, but I October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 40 can assure you the architects and engineers are well versed in accommodating such provisions . Not only is this the least restrictive of any East End Town, but Southold Town has now included an alternate compliance pack, similar to what is now placed for front yard setbacks allowing neighborhood character to dictate an appropriate height . Last week, I watched the movie One Big House for the second time . Filmed in Martha ' s Vineyard in 2013 , it tells the story of how one particularly large house incentivize the community to take action to limit house size . In 2003 , a 64 , 000 square foot house built in Sagaponack was a wake-up call for the people in the Hamptons . Where house size is limited in every great community, albeit, maybe not restrictive enough . Here in Southold we have not had that single monumental trigger, but we have been seeing increasing examples of new or expanded houses that degrade the character of the neighborhood . The Town Board and community have spent hours and hours in the past year and a half October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 41 ( inaudible ) Comprehensive Plan . For the record my own personal opinion is that this proposal is too lenient on parcels above two acres . However, I hope that the Town Board will take action tonight to pass this resolution as the first step in protecting our Town from the escalation of the mic-mansion plague . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . MS . KATIE STOKES : Hi . My name is Katie Stokes and I reside here in Southold . I would like to speak in support of the passing of this legislation . I am a home front -- waterfront homeowner, and I really appreciate you all taking the opportunity to be proactive about protecting our Town and making sure that we just have reasonably sized houses . I also appreciate the fact that the Local Law exempts farm housing . I think you should include both the square footage and the sky plane rules that you have . I will say however to a point made by Ms . Moore earlier about accessory buildings or structures . I wondered if there could be a two word change that might make it far October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 42 less problematic for people . Right now it says accessory buildings or structures shoulder operate to be excluded except any ( inaudible ) which may be converted to habitable space . I think if you changed "may be" to "has been, " then it would be much more -- more justifiable . For an example, as I said earlier, we live on a house that is on the waterfront and we have a big barn . We actually have two barns . One ' s a bigger barn and one is a little barn, and one of the -- the little barn has water in it . The previous owner wanted a sink . So that structure is now counted as habitable space because it would be habitual because there is water . And it ' s not habitable . Any way, that would be discouraging . So I think for a lot of people if those words were changed -- obviously, if there is habitable space, then it should be counted . But if it ' s not habitable space, then that would be great . Anyway . With that small exception, I really support this effort to try and protect our wonderful community . October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 43 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . MS . MARGARET DECRUZ : Thank you very much . Yes , this is Margaret DeCruz . I live in Greenport and I am also on the Board of North Fork Environmental Council . I don ' t have a lot to add . I support this . I hope you vote for it . I think the important thing is to maintain the character of our Town . I moved here because of that . I love the small houses . I live on a block that is very simple . And besides our own character, it ' s important that we limit excess resource use . Reduce how we -- we don ' t need all these big, big, big buildings . Time for people to get a little more simple and still have a wonderful life and have what you need . You don ' t need a huge, huge, huge home . Thank you very much . MR . ALBERT KRUPSKI : Hi . Good evening . Albert Krupski . I would like to thank Supervisor Russell and the Town Board for considering this . As a resident, I have listened to a lot of residents express a lot of concern about the nature of our Town . But I think passing this will certainly be a October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 44 right step in that direction . Maintain the character that we have here . I know that Supervisor Russell tried to address this years ago and I am glad to see he stayed with it and your persistence will pay off . So thank you for your efforts and hopefully you can support this . MS . JAINE MEHRING : Supervisor Russell , and members of the Town Board . My name is Jaine Mehring and I live on the South Fork in the Town of East Hampton in the Hamlet of Amagansett . This is actually not the first time I have spoken to you . I actually Zoomed in back in June during your first meeting in June during your first Public Hearing . My timing was off and I didn ' t get to speak then . But I did make it to the hearing that followed about the Cutchogue Woods at the time, the proposed . And I was the person, if anyone remembers , that said, I am here to speak from your future . And I am going to continue on that vane tonight . As I have come to speak on your support of your proposal amendment of the Local Law Chapter 280 . What brings me October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 45 here in person today is my -- what I have heard that many of the pressures and impact of life and indeed degrading the rural character and sense of place on the South Fork and East Hampton will soon become what is here is Southold Town . It will rapidly reshape your landscape and your quality of life in a way that is not compatible with the overall vision of the 10 or 13 goals and objectives in your Comprehensive Plan, which I did read before coming here . I have had a few 50 or 75 bike rides under my belt and I love it . They are worth fighting for . I reviewed the results of the North Fork Civic Survey and it was talked about . So I won ' t comment on them. That was stated as very or very important to people . Protected and ensured without a framework of reason on the scope and scale of what is built . Part of that is monitoring house size . I want to give you a little more introduction . To make clear my motivations and as I stand before you here in Southold Town to speak . I owned my cottage in Amagansett for over 20 years . When I first purchased it, it was my October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 46 second home . In 2019, I made it my full-time residents . Prior to becoming a homeowner, I have had experience in the Town of Southold for every decade since the 1960 ' s . Since a child . And from each of these decades forward, I have carried with me, upon my inner eye and in my heart, indelible memories . Some vivid . Some memorable of what East Hampton looked like . What it looked like, felt like, sounded like . How the magic of east end light illuminated what used to be vast open space and how darker sky ' s were at night . Something we are also starting to lose because of house size . So in my context to understand the impact of ongoing development . And in particular I want to highlight the most recent rapid -- rapid construction activity rocked by an onslaught of developers on the east end and developers . The transformation over the last 5 to 10 years is astounding . The sense of loss that I and so many residents feel is profound . I am going to share with you some primary facts that we ' re seeing stemming October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 47 from over-sizing house size in the community . The specific -- I started my own organization, in fact, in kind of what you are all doing here, called Build In Kind East Hampton . Engagement in what I believe to be the most critical issue, which is overdevelopment, both commercial and residential . And what I have is to approach my Town Board to get them to commit revising our Town Code or Zoning Code . My objective is to return objective restraints and inspire more from ( inaudible ) . Thanks in part to the commitment of many preservations and our CPF Funds . That within a stones throw or turn of a head from these charming streets of the vista, are tracks of oversized houses , gulping down energy and water and generating excessive, nitrogen, noise, light, pollution and quality of life . We have had a very strong Zoning Code in place for decade, which was sometimes very effective in preserving rural character while fostering the local economy . In the well crafted time tested code, the tools for mitigating ( inaudible ) but the big flop in October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 48 our code is the houses that are simply way too large . Our formula of 100 of lot area along with overgenerous covering ratios allows for incredible amounts to be stuffed on smaller lots . One can built a 20 , 000 square foot house on grounds starting at about 4 acres . Our Zoning Code worked for decades until when everyone quite simply built below the maximum. Because they knew that building below the maximums was the right thing to do to preserve the community character and the value . The main thing that I want to convey is that the key dynamic that has driven the change, a horde of speculative developers have come in with a voracious appetite and all of them are choosing because it ' s a profit motive to break through dimensional ceilings that have become the norm. For developers building a house is simply a profit maximizing transaction . I think until very recently, all the developers coming from west, take the LIE to exit 70 . That is to turn to 27 and go east . I believe they ' re starting to understand that there are another few exits October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 49 at the end of the LIE and they ' re going to continue straight down 25 . I want to stress that the house size is not about the quality of looking . It ' s not just about subjective reactions or different styles and architecture . It ' s about existential issues that affect all . I don ' t have the time to go through it all now . I put it to you . But runaway house size and development housing destroys existing houses to full-time residents including first responders , healthcare workers , teachers , service providers . Affordability of goods and services also compromised by overdevelopment, the pressure on Town infrastructure and things that you build a lot and you get much more tax revenue . Cash . Life gets really great . It does not work that way . Our infrastructure, Code Enforcement, Building under the weight of all this . We came this close in budget to have to break through that tax cap . Water quality is an issue . Native -- you know, all of those things . So all in -- I don ' t want to make it sound like some sort of October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 50 health scape in East Hampton . It still is a remarkable and beautiful place in which to have the privilege to live . But we are behind the curve in tipping point . We need to do everything we can to save what is left and to hopefully restore some of the damage . But you here in Southold, write this proposal Local Law, you will have the results to be ahead of the curve . We south of you have gotten far behind . And this is a very important -- extremely important fact . Nothing I see in this legislation is extreme . Substantial houses . Nothing depreciation of land values or other rational economic development . House legislation isn ' t about that, property rights . It ' s about striving for something . To bring balancing ( inaudible ) community . I hope my perspective from the south of here, view perspective, changes at least or shifts minds of those who is opposed to this code change . As the leaders and protectors of this beautiful place and land, I urge you to draw a line in the sand about the scope and scale of what is built and what is built October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 51 here . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . MR . GEORGE KRUG : Thank you . I strongly encourage you to some support for this proposed ( inaudible ) . My wife, Linda and I , are residents of New Suffolk . We only have been out here a few years . ( Inaudible ) the views that we see from New Suffolk Road and New Suffolk Avenue . One of the commenter ' s described very accurately the house that has brought a lot of attention, and that would be my concern . I want ( inaudible ) about whether or not this new ( inaudible ) . I wouldn ' t have enough information to know whether the Amazon house would have been permissible under this new -- one of the mic-mansion that is just a few doors down . Enormous home . East end also has an impact on the waterfront homes in terms of resiliency . People have concern with increasing severity of storms . Then there is the shoreline . But we ' re certainly concerned about over development and the change of the -- New Suffolk for sure and Southold at large . I often think that in October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 52 Nassau County where -- it ' s sort of a curse to say, I think the cursor of Southold is that it ' s starting to look like the Hamptons . Certainly don ' t want that to happen . So I won ' t go on at any further length . We do wonder what is going up . And I salute you taking this effort at this time . And that is all I have to say . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . We will go to Eric next . MR . ERIC SEPNOSKI : Thank you . I just wanted to say that I thank the Board for its consideration . The years of this proposal . It ' s a great first step in respecting and protecting and preserving our future . That is all I have to say . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Since he didn ' t identify himself . That is Eric Sepnoski . He is a Southold Town Trustee . Who else would like to address the Town Board from here? Nick? MR . NICK KRUPSKI : Good evening, Board . Nick Krupski , Cutchogue . I guess October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 53 the only good thing about mic-mansions being built is , there will be less larger expansive homes to fertilize and over water . Thank you Board for your support in this legislation . A lot of folks here made some excellent points in this discussion . So I won ' t repeat what they have said because they have really covered a lot of the basis . As a Southold Town Trustee, every month we go out to site visits . You know, and see these inappropriate projects being built in our Town . For the last years especially, it has been very difficult . I greatly appreciate you doing something about it . And ask that you please don ' t take the teeth out . It is the first of many necessary steps to preserve the steps in the quality of life in Southold . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thanks . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Just before we move on, I should note that there is a letter of support from the Trustees in this packet . You know, we talked about it -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thanks . MR . MARK REASONFELD : My name is Mark October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 54 Reasonfeld . I am a resident of Orient . And a member of the Orient Association Board . Supervisor and Town Board members , I thank you for all of your efforts . To craft a Local Law that seeks to keep future residential development to scale of Southold ' s community character . I would like to make three brief points . One is , I believe the Board should adopt the proposed Local Law because it is consistent and supports the Southold ' s Comprehensive Plan . Secondly, I want to note that the Board has developed proposed Local Law as a result of multiple Public Hearing ' s and meetings and presentations , and has found that it represents the current best effort of balancing concerns with preserving community character and reasonable use of property . Currently, I will point out that the proposed Local Law provides a clear set of development standards that have through successful ( inaudible ) communities of the east end, such as Shelter Island, Sag Harbor and Southampton to name a few . I would note paratenically that there has been a lot of October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 55 discussion about difficulty of zoning ordinance and various aspects of this technical potential deficiencies . I would say that as a general proposition, the zoning ordinance is really not a science . It ' s a dynamic process that goes on in time . And they always start some place . And from what we have seen so far over the last couple of years , this is the best starting place we have to address this pressing issue for the community . Thank you again for your efforts and I urge you to pass the Local Law as proposed and take a significant step towards Long Island ' s last place . The community of Southold and its hamlet ' s are owed that commitment . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else would like to address the Town Board? Dave? MR . DAVE BERGAN : Good evening . Dave Bergan, Cutchogue . Thank you very much to the Town work for considering this Town legislation . I wanted to speak in favor of the proposed legislation but maybe from a slightly different perspective . As a former Town Trustee, there were many times when October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 56 applications were before us that involved construction of a large house or an addition to a house, made a large house on a small parcel . The practice was not and is not environmentally sound with houses close to the water . Trustees , like other Board ' s , are bound by to follow the Town Code . No trustee had no authority to implement or amend Town Code . It only could make recommendations to the Town Code and hand those recommendations off to the Town Board . You have already received feedback from two current Trustees and one former Trustee . And understand fully, you might recall , Jill , from your days as a Trustee, the frustration that the Trustees feel when required to follow the existing code, yet get beaten up by others for approving ( inaudible ) environmentally sound and it fit better within the community . You do a perfect example . It ' s already been mentioned several times . It was an application in New Suffolk for a house a couple of years ago . It was way too large for the buildable land on the property but October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 57 the code at the time allowed for the including of wetlands as buildable footage . So the code could not downsize the house . The community was upset to say the least that it was approved . As a result of this house, the Board amended the section of the code if you remove wetlands from counting towards buildable square footage lot . Fast forward to today and look at the large glass modern house on Peconic . Going up almost across the street from that house in New Suffolk . Neighbors were upset the Trustees approved this house . It was such a large house for such a small piece of property . So please listen to your current/ former Trustees . Demonstrate your support for them and the members of others Board ' s and adopting this Resolution . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else would like to address the Town Board? MS . SUSAN HAND : Good evening . Susanne Hand . I am a resident of East Marion and also a resident here in the Town of Southold . I support this proposal . I support many of the comments that I have October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 58 heard here tonight . I just want to say in my community, mostly small lots and small homes . Several years ago, one of the owners knocked down the house and rebuilt the house . It met the setbacks as did the house next door . The house next door now has no light . No view coming in . And it ' s a ginormous house . And that is the kind of situation we ' re trying to avoid . As the recent people come here, it ' s for the character of the community . That is why I am here . That is why you ' re here . And that is essential if you want to keep the values of our homes . I noticed yesterday on the Trustee ' s agenda . The first proposal was somebody who owned a house approximately 3200 square feet . They proposed to add another 4200 square feet . So a 7400 square foot home is exactly what we don ' t need . MS . AMANDA JULIANO : Hi . My name is Amanda Juliano . I am a resident of Southold . I am in support of this . I am however impacting with my job . Like the gentleman who was an architect who spoke earlier . I actually do interior October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 59 renovations . A designer of a bath studio . Do design for kitchen and cabinetry . So the only thing that I just request is the process , the elongation of that process and having to redo floor plans constantly . Have architects take it back because when they get their process through and then we have to re-change interiors . And our fees are associated with timeframe and certain points of the project . So that actually holds up money and funds from us . And that also offsets the amount of projects that we can take on . Because we don ' t know how to plan our schedules out . So that is something that is actually very important . If you guys can just consider that, that ' s great . Otherwise, I am totally in support of this whole thing . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . MR . GEORGE MAUL : My name is George Maul . I am building a house in New Suffolk . A lot of 75x150 . I am building within the regular footprint for that space . I have had no trouble with the Building Department . I have no trouble finding an architect, even October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 60 though the architect was outside the Town of Southold . I had no trouble finding a surveyor outside the Town of Southold who came within a week . And did what I needed to have done . The house that I am building, I have not had any trouble with any agency . I haven ' t had any long process in the building of that house from the Town or anyone else . They come from outside of the area because of the local suppliers and contractors are too busy to come quickly and do the work that I need done . I want to say that when I looked at putting the house on that lot, I said on one side I have a neighbor . So I chose to make that part of my house 10 feet high and put the 30 feet part -- 30 foot high part of the house farther away from them. Without even knowing it, I was fitting into the sky plane that we ' re proposing . So it ' s a matter of common sense . It ' s a matter of not being greedy . And then there are new problems conforming to the code that the Town of Southold has . And being a good neighbor and enjoy living in the Town of Southold . Thank October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 61 you very much . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Anybody else like to address the Town Board on this particular Local Law? Tom? MR . TOM STEVENSON : How are you? Tom Stevenson, Orient . Although sitting here ( inaudible ) but I do appreciate the Zoom aspect . Really do . I love that you do that . Even though you don ' t have to . I would like to comment on Pat Moore ' s comments about the unwillingness and that the Town should be ( inaudible ) issues that are already preexisting with, nonconforming lots . And create a whole bunch more of nonconforming lots . That is going to impact regular people when they go to do a simple renovation, but I do agree that big houses on small lots , that ' s the problem. I have already spoken to the Town Board in the past . This has been going on a long time . I think the focus should be on the properties ( inaudible ) somewhere in that level . And I think the process is too broad . Change the zoning or the bulk schedule on every residential lot, which October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 62 includes all the farmland in the Town . Up to -- you know, I -- this is not -- most of the complaints have been small lots in tight areas and people doing the wrong thing, which is totally wrong to build some giant monstrosity . So I think it should be a little more focused . So I know you ' re going to pass it tonight . But what else here -- the Civic Association Survey, I just want to point out, let ' s be real . If Affordable Housing was a 1 , 2 or 3 , and just trying to survive here economically -- that survey doesn ' t represent everyone in this Town for sure . I don ' t really like the process on how this started . I mean, private meetings , they are not a legal -- private meetings between the Civics and the Town Board are not illegal but I think it would have been better to start -- you know, the Town Board start open with everyone, out in the public . I shouldn ' t have to request a draft that was talked about that is public -- well , some people have it . Ag Advisory committee had to get it . We did get it . You know, 15 drafts later . Those drafts didn ' t say October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 63 anything about sky plane or loss . That came after . I think that is all I have . Thanks for listening to me . And I wouldn ' t pass this as written . Trying to really incentivize building a more modernized home, some other way . I really don ' t have the answer . There is a lot of smart people out there . Thank you . I am going to sign off . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . I don ' t comment on the speakers tonight, but I got to say, we never had any private meetings with the Civics . And I think the Civics are, you know, hardly discreet when it comes to their points of views . It was actually presented at a Town Board meeting . And everything had been open . It all had been out in the open . Anybody else like to address the Town Board? Yes , please . MS . LINDA DE JESUS : I am Linda DeJesus , Cutchogue resident . I am in favor of the resolution . I know you did a lot of work on it . While no one thinks it ' s perfect, it ' s a start there . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 64 Anybody else on Zoom Land? BOARD ROOM : No . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I will make a motion to close the hearing . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Second . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in favor? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye . COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye . JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye . (Whereupon, the Public Hearing concluded at this time . ) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * PUBLIC COMMENTS SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Would anybody like to address the Town Board on any issue? MR . DAVID LEVY : Mr . David Levy from White Eagle Drive, Southold portion of Laurel . I will be brief because I know you want to wrap things up tonight . Two quick subjects . One, I think there is a popular October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 65 misconception heard by a number of public officials , including a couple of members of this Town Board because I have spoken to them about the size of the tax increase in the proposed budget . And I think that this misunderstanding has come about because of the newspaper story in Suffolk Times which focused on lowering the number in the budget . As I look at the budget, the tax increase is 20 . Not 6 . 9% as it ' s commonly referred . It ' s actually the tax rate in the proposed budget and previous years budget as adopted . Nobody uses that as a measure of a tax increase . Particularly not the New York State Comptroller . And that is not the number that they look at when they try to determine hearings that were so-called 20 tax cap law, which is neither 20 , neither a cap . I just want to bring that to your attention . The difference, the numbers that they look at is the actual tax levy . And if you look at attachments , it ' s there . It ' s actually 1 . 999° that is listed in the budget . So to be completely honest, I think the newspaper person looked in the wrong October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 66 place . Picked out a number and ran it and everybody saw it . This is not to say and I don ' t want you to get the wrong idea and people say to get the wrong idea about what I am saying . To produce the tax increase of only 20 , we have all read that inflation is up by 8 . Quite an accomplishment . So not attacking the budget in any way . I have praise for the people who work with you in developing this budget . I just wanted to put the correct number out there . So that the Town Board in considering it, they knew exactly what they were dealing with . That is the first subject . The second subject, on August 2nd, I ask that you not put a referendum for community housing because there was no way that we would get to Election Day having any idea of what the Board was thinking about doing with the money . The position at the time was , originally stressed on its own ( inaudible ) firm idea of what the Town Board ' s idea of the plan for the money is going to be . The Supervisor spoke vehemently about that . Councilman Doherty and Councilman Doroski October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 67 all spoke of the importance of having a plan in place before we brought it in front of to the public . Over the Town Board ' s ( inaudible ) well , if we give them a pretty good idea of what we ' re looking for and get the consultant . And then the consultant came on line . There was some talk about having a plan on June lst, which was never going to happen . And now you also -- in the work session, I heard that the consultant was coming in . That they were going to talk about a first draft of a plan . They didn ' t talk to you about the first draft of a plan . They gave you a pretty ( inaudible ) unlike the law that was passed a year ago requires . Now it starts in 11 days . How are people suppose to judge whether or not for proposition? Because we ' re now in the position -- with a woman that I once worked with, and who ' s name most of you would recognize . As the -- by the way, I want to salute and single out, Justice Evans , who took a stance in voting for transparency and voted against the ballot because there was no plan . She was the only . So my question October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 68 is a simple one . Ballots are commencing in 11 days , where are today that we weren ' t 98 days ago when I said this . There is no way you ' re going to give people enough time to move this forward . What do I tell the people who ask me because they know I have been vocal about this issue, locally and both here . Are there any public meetings ? There was two Zoom meetings and two public meetings before the vote? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : We have had public meetings every Wednesday via Zoom and they have been on the Town ' s website . MR . DAVID LEVY : And -- COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : And we discussed going forward, what the law was and how we would want to spend the money . Today, one of those slides was how the different ways that we could spend the money . We did not have the details on that and we did not expect to have the details on that by now . MR . DAVID LEVY : Well , what this morning ' s meeting was about, was not a plan . It was an outline on what the law permits . October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 69 And if you want to go into that here -- if the people here knew what the law permits -- and this is why it ' s so important for the Town to have a plan . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : And that is part of the plan . We have to start with what the law is . MR . DAVID LEVY : Of course you do, and I get that . But you don ' t have to go out to the outer limits of the law . And frankly, when I tell people what the law permits -- that is why they need to know if the Town Board is going to go out that far . If the Town Board is actually going to make loans or give assistance to people who aren ' t earning $200 , 000 a year . That is not low income . You say you ' re going to give loans to people who have huge assets but have never owned a home before . If they have $2 million dollars in the bank and a Maserati in the driveway would qualify under the State ' s rules . That is why they need to know if this Town Board is leasing housing, buying housing . Does the Town Board have any idea in the direction it wants to take October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 70 on this? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Well , I know we don ' t want to -- I don ' t see us using this money for the Town to be the contracting and buying . MR . DAVID LEVY : I appreciate that you don ' t see that . Number one, who is invited to these Zoom meetings? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : It ' s a public meeting, just like any other public committee meeting . MR . DAVID LEVY : So they ' re committee meetings ? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Well , I am using the term committee, it ' s called the Housing Board . It ' s a public meeting that is on the website . The Zoom link is on the website . Just like any other meeting . MR . DAVID LEVY : I have to tell you, I don ' t think that the community in general is aware of those meetings . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I think if we step back and look at the larger context here, the Community Preservation Fund and great bipartisan success story that has been October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 71 for our community and the east end generally, I have had with the community, that success instills a lot of confidence in our ability to put together a plan . Similar to the Community Preservation Fund plan that is used to spend those resources . MR . DAVID LEVY : But why the rush to do it so -- to pass this thing before we have done that? Because we want to collect COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Absolutely . So there is an Affordable Housing crisis in this community . And each year that we let lapse without collecting funds , I mean, we are leaving on the table . The amount of control that the community has in writing this plan, and I think that is some of the genius of the plan . By putting together a committee of community members that represent various interests in the community . We have builders . We have bankers . We have service organizations . Contractors . All bringing very specific expertise here and they ' re going to crafty a plan that reflects the community . I think October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 72 it ' s easy to be a critic . Actually put together a plan takes work of the community and something that I know this Board is committed to . I think it ' s something that -- I still have faith that it ' s something that we will be proud of . MR . DAVID LEVY : The last time this Board -- they bought a building to put the Court in . And after they took title, they saw that the building was not suitable for a Courthouse . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Actually incorrect . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : And this is a fundamentally different issue . That is a category error . What we are looking at here is the ability by referendum for us to collect funds that are earmarked specifically for Affordable Housing . That need to be spent in accordance with a plan . A plan that the community wants . This is a plan that is going to go before the community and Public Hearing to approve . Not a cent will be spent out of this until the public approves . I understand the October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 73 argument that you ' re making, but I think you ' re fixating on a fine point that kind of focuses on the trees , but not the forest . MR . DAVID LEVY : I have to say that this whole Board agreed with me until they miscalculated the date in which they had to act . And you were one of those people . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Can I just point out, first of all , we ' re not voting to impose the tax on the public . The public gets the ultimate say in whether that tax gets levied or not . If they don ' t want to take a leap of faith, they do not have to . If they have concerns because they -- we don ' t have a plan for it yet, they don ' t have to vote for it . That is the whole nature of public referendums and democracy . I understand both concerns . I share those concerns . I really do . But the reality was , letting the time pass when we had an opportunity, at a critical time with such a robust real estate to at least create those sources of funds and keep them in a dedicated account without use, until the plan is adopted with public input, I felt October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 74 like it was an opportunity that we couldn ' t pass up . Another thing with regards to the banks , since you brought it up . The Southold General Support Services were already operating out of the bank . I had no place to put them. I bought the bank because we had no choice . The costs of buying the building was the cost of not buying the building . We needed secure it . We had an idea that the front would make a very good Justice Court, well , that didn ' t work out so good . The fact is , we had no choice . And by the way, we spent $3 . 1 million dollars on a property that I would love to appraise, which probably exceeds $ 6 million . So I think we did okay . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I want to say that common sense tells us wait till you have a plan . And that is why originally -- MR . DAVID LEVY : Common sense tells you that -- COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Excuse me, again . Originally my thought was , let ' s wait . Let ' s do the research . And the calculations that we would be throwing away October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 75 $ 1 to $2 million dollars a year, that changed my mind . MR . DAVID LEVY : If you can give benefits to someone by overbuying our house, $ 1 to $2 million dollars is not going to help -- COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I agree that those numbers are high . It ' s something that I will never reach . Those are not the Town ' s rules . Those are code rules that are made that we have to abide by . That is -- you know, it ' s not something that we said . It ' s what we have to go by . I agree with you . That is kind of high . You saw today, what the costs of houses are here . And you know, to -- for a young couple trying to afford a house here, they can ' t afford $750 , 000 . Even if they make $ 170 , 000 combined . They can ' t afford that . MR . DAVID LEVY : I am not against this referendum. I am against taking place when nobody knows . They are likely to knock it down and be much harder for you if you bring it back a second time next year, having been defeated once . October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 76 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Just a point of information, you do not have to use $ 1 . 2 million dollar calculation . Assemblyman Thiele drew the legislation as best as he could to give each Town the ultimate authority to craft the legislation . We can set a standard much lower than $ 1 . 2 million . MR . DAVID LEVY : We just talked about that, and I understand that . My point is , you have to let the people you ' re not going to do that . Because they ' re going to vote against it, these numbers . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Let ' s continue to keep the comments to the Board, please . Thank you for your comments . MR . DAVID LEVY : I also want to ask one question . At the talk in this mornings meeting, there was a talk about an ad . I understand that municipalities and levels of governance have to publish when certain events happen and Public Hearing, etcetera . Has the Board previously taken out a display ad in two languages? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Yes . We October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 77 in fact -- the Justice Task Force Review is in two languages . We actually have -- MR . DAVID LEVY : Okay . I was just curious . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : We are doing it on a lot more basis . We have done in certain -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : We are much more diligent about it now . MR . DAVID LEVY : I appreciate that . Thank you very much . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . Would anybody else like to -- MR . DAVE BERGAN : Dave Bergan . This will be quick . I wanted to bring to your attention that I appreciate all the work that this Town has done to preserve the environmental issues and the environment out here in Southold . One thing that needs addressing, we have seen at least on Nassau Point Road, the clear cutting of properties is completely for homes being built . There was two homes -- one is currently under construction on the water . They cleared everything out . There was another one on October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 78 Nassau Road, they completely clear cutted the lot . Even to the point of taking a bulldozer down there and bulldozing part of the property . There was just one last week on Nassau Point Road, on the left . Where I think they took -- I think there is one bush remaining on it . This was the house that he fire department recently used for practice on . Heavily treed lot . They completely took down every tree down on the lot . Left one bush . So it ' s just something that I would ask the Town Board to look at . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Yeah . We actually talked about this in work session this morning . And we talked about these very lots . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : So the Tree Committee has been working on this for the past three years . It ' s been postponed -- COVID postponed it for a year and a half . I can just come up with excuses that are very lame, but true . We are not close enough to get it to Code Committee yet . But we ' re working on it . We have a proposed code that you cannot clear cut and have a October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 79 perimeter and where you have setbacks on where you can cut . So we ' re working on that . And I hope to come up with something that we can start talking about in Code Committee in the next few months . MR . DAVE BERGAN : Super . Thank you very much . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Would anybody else like to comment? Randy? Always good to hear from you, Randy . MS . RANDY WADE : You ' re so kind . Now that you ' re talking about the budget, can you please put in for an Environmental Planning Office . Specifically an environmental planner to assist . They keep requesting . Also it deals with clear cutting and getting approval for this . I heard your conversation and you had nobody in Town Hall to deal with it, the Building Department . So you have to come up with a Tree Code that is self enforcing . It would just be nice that we can admit that we ' re at the point now where we would need an office October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 80 to deal with it . Other Town ' s do it . They have an Environmental Planning Office and they deal with clear cutting and stuff . So thank you for that . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . MS . RANDY WADE : Thank you, guys . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you for the update, it ' s very helpful . Anybody else? (No Response ) . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I will make a motion to close this hearing . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Second . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in favor? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye . COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye . JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye . (Whereupon, the meeting concluded at this time . ) October 18, 2022 Regular Meeting 81 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I , JESSICA DILALLO, a Court Reporter and Notary Public, for and within the State of New York, do hereby certify : THAT the above and foregoing contains a true and correct transcription of the Meeting held on October 18 , 2022 , via videoconference , and were transcribed by me . I further certify that I am not related to any of the parties to this action by blood or by marriage and that I am in no way interested in the outcome of this matter . IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 10th day of November, 2022 . J ssica DiLallo