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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-07/05/2022 PH 1 COUNTY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW YORK TOWN OF SOUTHOLD -------------------------------------------------- TOWN OF SOUTHOLD REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING -------------------------------------------------- Southold, New York July 5 , 2022 7 : 00 P . M . B E F 0 R E : SCOTT A . RUSSELL, SUPERVISOR LOUISA P . EVANS , JUSTICE JILL DOHERTY, COUNCILWOMAN BRIAN 0 . MEALY, COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI , COUNCILMAN SARAH E . NAPPA, COUNCILWOMAN July 5, 2022 2 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I would like to invite anybody who would like to comment on any of the agenda items , please feel free? MR . LLOYD WITHERS : Are you going to be voting on the Cutchogue Woods ? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I cannot speak to that as to if we will be voting or not . MR . LLOYD WITHERS : I would like to make a comment? MR . JOHN BURKE : Can you tell us your name , please? MR . LLOYD WITHERS : My name is Lloyd Withers . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : What we ' re going to do, we ' re still in Public Hearing . So with that pending application -- what we ' re going to do is do the regular agenda items . And when we go back in the Public Hearing, then we will invite you up to speak about the Woods or any item regarding the Public Hearing . MR . LLOYD WITHERS : Thanks . July 5, 2022 3 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Would anybody else like to comment on any of the agenda items? (No Response ) . (Meeting Resumed . ) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : What we ' re going to do, is we ' re going to resume our Public Hearing on what is an application as Cutchogue Woods Affordable Housing proposal in Cutchogue . So I am going to invite anybody that would like to address this with the Town Board to please feel free . MR . LLOYD WITHERS : I am Lloyd Withers in Cutchogue . And Affordable Housing is not affordable . It ' s a business . And it is evident as far away as my second home, Houston, that the North Fork is under a lot of pressure for growth . And it ' s a very -- 23 square miles of relatively pristine environment that was created over a period of time . Substantive effort of the population here and the Town . I July 5, 2022 4 would like to emphasize that when ( inaudible ) Affordable Housing solved the local problem in general . They go for any tax rebate , grant or any other source of funding because it ' s a profit oriented enterprise . And that can create an absent of local focus . There was an establishment in Mattituck where they created housing for local environment, but it was locally funded . That seemed to have worked very well . And I know people who have lived there . But Affordable Housing on the very necessity that it is a business . It generally is not local . And if they take a grant from the State or from the Federal Government , the State does not allow that to be local . And the Federal Government will not allow that either . I noticed also in looking through, and trying to track the pressure to develop the North Fork for 23 square miles , it seems to be a tremendous amount of pressure going on in this regard . But the Town Board in 2018 also identified a July 5, 2022 5 critical resource that was used for the North Fork . And in it ' s report, the Board and I think a report was in there about criticality of that aquifer . Now a recent proposal of Suffolk County Water Association says we ' re going to take a pipeline from Flanders to Laurel , and bypass part of the aquifer . That is not ( inaudible ) when you think an aquifer exist for a proposal of water running through it . It exists and keeps out the saltwater erosion from both sides of the island . Some steps should be taken to defer the pressure of this vote for a period of time . The proposals that I have seen and referred to, have indicated that there are areas that are -- have been open for legal interpretation . And made the Town liable right to build . There are factors in your own definition, building rights are being open by legal pressure . And I am not certain that you have the tools to handle the pressure of what is ahead of you . As I research this , I July 5, 2022 6 noticed one of our ( inaudible ) award of Man of the Year in 2018 , indicated that we may need to start to apply a "not on my backyard" connotation . This is a pristine 23 square mile piece of earth . And the developments that I have seen, development rights from -- vineyards in upwards of 60 . And pressure for Affordable Housing and other factors from Riverhead, all the way out to Greenport . Increasing density . The precious set of resources . I am not sure it ' s going to wind up well . And there is no other place to get some . And if you recall , you know, a lot of people -- we had environmentalists for years persuading us to make small changes . Farmers burning their fields so that the water run-off would not increase the algae . We had numerous changes in agricultural irrigation . If people went through the tenth degree to keep this as it has been, it was a unique combination of agricultural and state resources . Businesses , I mean July 5, 2022 7 banks , agricultural farmers . The state with Cornell and other people who work with their extension centers here , to make this a better area for farming and even the extension of wine industry here . I recall Al Krupski explain part of this to a group of us , that this was not enforced . This was a combination where people had to work together . People had to -- bankers had to understand that they had to fund agricultural equipment . That would allow people to process new crops . We can fight climate change . This is not small . And a lot of it was done to preserve what we had . And an effort even as small , 5 . 66 acres to do Affordable Housing, that is simply a mega structure . You would have to provide an infrastructure for it . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Anybody else like to address the Town Board on this? Robert? MR . ROBERT DUNN : Robert Dunn, July 5, 2022 8 Peconic . I wrote something to hand in . You all can throw it away . I didn ' t know I would get a chance to talk today . Almost 1000 of the people are here to discuss this . I will start off that we need public housing . We need Affordable Housing . We need this , but not here . And I have heard that over and over and over and over again . Seems to me that -- and then there is also the discussion about who is going to be able to live there . We can easily make it so that we can control it . And when I say, "we " the Town . It ' s the Town of Southold ' s position to do that . So if people who are doing it , try and go somewhere else . And then it comes with restrictions . The bottom line on this , at the end of the process , there will be 24 new homes -- new apartments added to the Town ' s roll , which you are the numbers , Scott . Cumulative rents for everybody around here . And some of the people who are now in competition with ( inaudible ) will be able to go here . So in terms of July 5, 2022 9 overall costs to the people of Southold . I heard a number of comments along the way . I couldn ' t stay last meeting . That is why I didn ' t talk last meeting, but I heard all the comments . I heard comments about what kind of fuel they ' re going to be burning . The heat pumps , they don ' t burn fuel . So there is no burning fuel . The septic system, by nature , I have one of those too . I have to be on an A system, which is better than 990 of the septic systems in this Town . So everybody up there and everybody down here . Just much, much cleaner . I heard one comment from an elected official that kind of disgusted me . When I hear people say more rental housing ( inaudible ) . No , we don ' t get to decide who is going to live here . We have to go to Riverhead? I mean, where do you stop? Everybody can live here . And we need to do our best as a Town to make that possible . This proposal I think is as good as it ' s going to get . And as far as that living there, there July 5, 2022 10 is nobody ' s backyard there . The closet backyard is several hundred feet away . So this is a perfect place for that kind of thing . You are not going to find 5 acres in any one of the hamlets to do this . Then there was one last comment -- really kind of bothered me . Rental housing makes poor people poor . I grew up in rental housing, I am far from poor . Rental housing -- affordable renting housing keeps poor people from homeless . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Do we have someone on Zoom? BOARD ROOM : Craig, you have permission to talk? MR . CRAIG CATALANOTTO : My name is Craig Catalanotto . I am from the Hamlet of Speonk . I normally don ' t attend Public Hearing ' s outside of Southampton Town, but I just wanted to offer my perspective regarding Georgica Green . I work with Georgica Green here on Affordable Workforce Housing complex a few years ago . And you know, my July 5, 2022 11 community shared the same concerns regarding the overcrowding, traffic, noise, etcetera . And what we got with working with Georgica Green was a wonderful apartment complex . We have 38 new residents . They ' re using our restaurants . They have become integrated into our community . I was the CAC West Share for the Hamlet of Southampton Town . And a couple of the tenants over at Speonk Commons actually joined our CAC . So many of the fears that were had never actually came to fruition . And Georgica Green really did a marvelous job with the complex . It ' s beautiful . Any concerns that we have had after it was built, you know, some lighting issues , they attended to those immediately . I cannot say enough good things about how they worked with our community . And you know, ultimately the complex over here is a benefit to my community by a lot . And I hope that your community will consider it as well . Because I think once it ' s built, you July 5, 2022 12 will come to learn that it ' s a wonderful thing . It ' s good to keep some of our local folks local . You need keep our workforce here as well . So thank you for your time . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else would like to address the Town Board on this particular Public Hearing? MR . DAVE STEELE : Dave Steele . This isn ' t my backyard . I farm all around . The Town Board bought all the development rights around there . Preserved land . Have railroad tracks running on the south boundary project . You got a highway on the north side . No gas . No bus service . I am for Affordable Housing . I just don ' t think it belongs there . I have spoken to a few of you guys and girls about some of the concerns . So that is all I have to say . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else would like to address the Town Board? MR . ROBERT DUNN : Before I lose it again . Next year going to be 76 . So July 5, 2022 13 it ' s hard . I don ' t know have many of you have driven over to the Hamptons in the morning . You take a ride to the Hamptons at -- anywhere from 6 : 00 to 9 : 00 in the morning, any day in Spring or Summer, you are in Manhattan traffic . Because anybody who wants to work in the Hamptons has to drive from Patchogue or Islip or anywhere else to the west . All the pickup trucks and vans . If that ' s the future in what we want here, and a bunch of wealthily houses , and they are coming . Mr . Farrell put up his sign . He doesn ' t build cheep houses . He ' s got an office here . We are going to see that as part of our future . So anybody who is going to work here is going to have from elsewhere . We are all going to be standing in traffic constantly . Thank you . MS . GAIL WICKHAN : Good evening, Gail Wickham, Cutchogue . I would like to -- like to respond to the letter that VHB wrote on June 16, 2022 , which reviewed and analyzed the Planning July 5, 2022 14 Board ' s comments and the recommendations against the proposed change of zone . The letter is repeated with conclusionary statements . There is no specific substance . It really basically advances positions in the nature of the VHB ' s interpretation of the Comprehensive Plan . It doesn ' t mention the inconsistencies between the project and the Comprehensive Plan . It ignores the clear language of the Zoning Code and the concerns and recommendations of the stakeholders , which was the essential part in developing the Comprehensive Plan, as well as , all of the other planning and input that went into it . It was a Town wide effort . Not just geographically but involving all levels of citizens and government . It was an effort that resulted in the Comprehensive Plan concluding the Halo and hamlet density concepts to have denser development in those areas and leaving the outline areas for much lower density . The VBH ( sic) letter July 5, 2022 15 completely ignores these central zoning concepts that you ' re charged with reviewing in any application . They attempt to argue that because -- and this is -- because there is a Town wide need for Affordable Housing, which we all agree on . There is no question about that . It can be put anywhere in the Town . And that is where I think we have to be very careful with precedents setting and basically leaving this whole issue wide open . That is not what the Comprehensive Plan says . VBH letter also ( inaudible ) farming analysis and preservation analysis to try and shoehorn these arguments , somehow in support of its conclusion . When you look at the Comprehensive Plan a little bit here . A little bit there . And you do that and out the plan goes . That is not good planning . It can ' t justify its plan of action . Every project has to be reviewed on its facts and the application and relevant standards . That is the essence . Without doing July 5, 2022 16 that, there is clearly an arbitrary ( inaudible ) and rationale result . I want to mention that the Town ' s involving zoning classifications throughput the years since the 50 ' s . Where they basically did distribute density from the Hamlet centers and out . High density and residential was allowed in the hamlets . R40 Zones were sought slightly outside of that . That in an already densely neighborhoods . And the AC R2 -- R80 zoning was applied to the outline acreage for farming and less density . That is the concept . The scattered ( inaudible ) and somewhat commercial parcels that the applicant showed in their maps when presented this project that are somewhere in this area, resulted from zoning that was imposed decades ago with a codified preexisting usage . And I don ' t think they can rely on that . It ' s a farming area . And this parcel can ' t claim historical result because the whole point of preexisting zoning is not ( inaudible ) . Further, July 5, 2022 17 when you legislate to allow the insertion of a floating district, which is this is , you have to consider characteristics of the existing district . And that is very important . I want to specifically go through some of the points in the VHB letter . They divided it into topics . Topic 1 , project is not as they state consistent with the Comprehensive Plan . The project ignores the standards by proposing high density residential development in this location . The need for Affordable Housing is not the issue here . They need is evident . It ' s the density . Disregard the issues magnified density in a farming low density area, magnified traffic on and off a high speed roadway with no specific transportation . Greatly magnified Nitrogen and other -- runoff containments over the runoff of the water table . And a lot distance from the firehouse . Should there be a fire in an attached housing development in July 5, 2022 18 woodland . VHB does acknowledge that the Comprehensive Plan calls for Affordable Housing in " appropriate areas . " And then it ignores why this is not an appropriate area . VHB letter correctly points out that the plan recommends Affordable Housing in all hamlets . And that should include Cutchogue, but it doesn ' t follow that it can be anywhere in the Hamlet . The Town recently denied the Depot Lane project, which I think is in a suitable location, which now, as I understand it, awaiting hearing on resubmission . How can the Route 48 location be better than Depot Lane, which is closer to the road and other factories ? Quality diversity and housing is needed . It doesn ' t ignore concepts in the zoning and Comprehensive Plan . Topic 2 , the VHB letter plays around with the language of the Comprehensive Plan, "Necessary requirements . " It attempts to argue , and what I found very confusing that they are not necessary . And somehow July 5, 2022 19 translates the Comprehensive Plan to say that the entire housing sector concept overrules the requirements for individual concepts . How can they argue that the characteristics of an individual project do not apply? Acknowledging that the "necessary requirements , " are " local considerations " in the housing sector . They seem to be saying that you can pick and chose individuals projects and put them anywhere . That is a very dangerous precedent . It is clearly misreading the Comprehensive Plan and zoning core concepts . The point of the Comprehensive Plan language is that you add up the individual requirements to get to the local considerations . Topic 2 conclusion that the projects ability to address Affordable Housing, means it can go anywhere . Completely unsupported by the Comprehensive Plan . In Topic 3 , the VHB letter tends to downplay the importance of a critical environmental areas and special groundwater protection July 5, 2022 20 designations on this property, which would be a serious jeopardy by construction . They also seem to argue, although it ' s hard to follow that because farming historically deposited chemicals in the groundwater, it ' s somehow now okay to dump high density in this as well . Likewise, their argument that this parcel was not labeled as a preservation target, obviously because it was too small to preserve, somehow leads to an argument that it is appropriate for high density housing . Government doesn ' t necessarily pursue small parcels for open space because they aren ' t big enough to make parks or preserves . They ' re suitable for below density residential . They don ' t just get thrown into the high density pool , which is what they are asking for here . That whole argument is what I would call a red herring on a good day . Further, I note that the -- I know that the VHB letter reports that the Phase I PSA shows that the project does lay over July 5, 2022 21 clean water . So unfortunately pharmacological chemicals have not been a huge impact or found their way out . Topic 4 , the need for Town wide Affordable Housing does not -- as they again attempt to argue, create a Town wide location for anywhere in the Town . It ' s intensionally misreading the Comprehensive Plan . I am unclear with what authority and unidentified Town representative speaking at an unidentified Suffolk County Planning Commission meeting on the location of Affordable Housing that we cannot rely on that . Contrary to the Hamlet centers in the VHB letter, it is evident that there is undeveloped land in and around those centers , including Cutchogue . So because Hamlet property is asserted to be more expensive there is no need to follow the Comprehensive Plan . Even if true, that has always true . And the Comprehensive Plan was made with those economic impacts in place . And it was not a factor that the plan address . July 5, 2022 22 Further, the merits cited in Topic 4 include large property over 5 acres . This is a parcel of under 6 acres for 24 homes proposed . When I first spoke to the developer on this , he was very anxious to send me a map that showed how beautifully they had incorporated, I think it was 28 parcels into a 2 acre parcel . They just don ' t get it . The second merit was adequate parking and sewage disposal . Sewage we mentioned before . Parking for 48 cars and they also mention taxi visits , have to enter a very, very high speed roadway . And for westbound traffic, u-turns and crossing over two lanes , pull into the median and turn around in an intersection, has to be very carefully considered . And I am sure that was a Planning Board concern . They ignore that the route has no public transportation . Far from service and retail establishments . Any of which must be accessed by residential country lanes . Buses would also have to July 5, 2022 23 navigate this -- this high speed turnaround situation for disabled residents that might be able to qualify for their services . The access is not good . The experience of this group, which I do respect , should have led before they walked into this project , the conclusion that they have to find the right property . Not just take what they find, and hundreds of thousands and try and get it through . Your job is to make sure that they follow the code requirements . Topic 5 , transportation and infrastructure . In reference to the S92 bus , ignores that it only runs on the Main Road in this area . A bike path would be nice, but those of us that have been on that highway with the speed of the cars and broken glass , might be cautious . They recite the imaginative initiative plan of minimal ridership on the buses . To justify people who need buses just won ' t be served here . I think that is a terrible statement . Use of personal vehicles and taxis will only July 5, 2022 24 increase traffic to a low density area . They mentioned that the winery across the street is limited to 39 parking spaces . No taxi service . And they only have periodic usage during their business hours . Not a continual residential -- 24 hour continual residential usage . Topic 5 , ecology ignores 4 acres of old growth trees . Many of which would be protected by the Planning Board restrictions on subdivision . Those of you who have been on Planning Board subdivisions , they very much know it ' s hard to clear trees and other buffers and other things . Further, there is no date on the back study that was quoted . So apparently it wasn ' t recent . Topic 6, traffic is discussed above and has the same flaws . Lastly, I want to specifically address the emphasis on the VHB letter, agricultural . Obviously this parcel is not in an AG District because it ' s not farmed . That argument however is irrelevant, for this project July 5, 2022 25 considerations , although it ' s repeated often by VHB . What is important are the large number of properties which immediately join the subject property or are in the immediate vicinity of it . All which are in the AG District, consist of many acres of active farmland and have acres of identified farming . They are identified on the Suffolk County AG District lists . And I won ' t read off all 13 of them, but they will be in the letter that I am going to submit . And in addition, Suffolk County Water parcel is there and the town development rights on ( inaudible ) Lane recently sold . And those are just the farms within the Alvahs Lane to Elijahs Lane block . Doesn ' t include east of Alvahs Lane, west of Elijahs Lane or those on Oregon Road . I also note that there is no evidence or substantiation for the proof from those statements in the letter . I ask you to please, follow the dictates and the Guidelines of your code and Comprehensive Plan . Point this July 5, 2022 26 applicant in the proper direction of finding a suitable location while you work on finding appropriate and effective Affordable Housing solutions locations . Thank you . And I will e-mail this letter to Mr . Noncarrow . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else would like to address the Town Board on this particular Public Hearing? MR . LOU BEKOFSKY : Supervisor and Members of the Board . Thank you again for giving us the opportunity again tonight . My name is Lou Bekofsky . I was here at the last meeting . I am the Director of Environmental Planning at VHB with offices in Hauppauge . I think it ' s good timing because at the last meeting, we heard a lot of support for the project but we also heard a few different concerns from members of the community . Mostly regarding water quality and preservation and in general , the projects location . In response to those concerns , we have a couple of additional points that we wanted you to July 5, 2022 27 hear for consideration . First , let ' s take on water quality and the special groundwater protection . This project is not prohibited to this location . It ' s not prohibited . SGPA ' s are found all over Long Island, as we demonstrated at the last hearing . And there is development within the SGPA ' s . Not uncommon . Primary concern for the Southold GPA -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : This is one thing . I probably let the prior speaker go on a little bit too long . So we ' re going to take the testimony but I don ' t know that we ' re really interested in kind of going through everything that we already went through . In fairness to you, I am going to give you the time that you need, because I did give the previous speakers the time that they need . I don ' t want to sit there and let them speak and -- MR . LOU BEKOFSKY : We appreciate that . I will be as quick as I can be . Okay . Again, the Southold SGPA as we July 5, 2022 28 said previously, historically, the water quality issues related to the use of agricultural or the previous agricultural uses on the site . In other words , we are not going to worsen those uses because we ' re not proposing an agricultural use here . Additionally, it was mentioned earlier by somebody in the public that we would have to use the most modern technology available if we ' re going to get an IA septic system, which we would, and that is designed to protect the groundwater resources . And we will absolutely meet all the minimum standards of the Suffolk County Department of Health Services , Suffolk County Sanitary Code, protective groundwater and water quality . We do have other members of the project here who will be happy to answer any questions on the water resources . Second, regarding preservation of the site, which you heard a lot of testimony about that, I think it ' s important to note that the decision before you is not July 5, 2022 29 between preservation and Affordable Housing . It ' s single family homes and Affordable Housing . Only the later addresses what you describe as the ( inaudible ) . With that said, the project does consider preservation . We serve up to 500 of the site . At the last meeting, and we heard it again tonight some of the concern of the quality of the wooded in the area . It was suggested that there may be some rare species of trees on the site . So after the last meeting on July lst, we sent a certified VHB ecologist out to the site to look at the potential for rare and protected ecological resources . And we did an assessment , which we do have here . And I am happy to submit for the record after my testimony . An assessment included a couple of key things . One , there is no significant natural communities or other rare habitats on the site . There is no endangered New York State threatened concern or other rare species listed on July 5, 2022 30 the site or any surrounding properties in any relevant DEC database . The site is an example of the coastal forest ecological community, which is considered very common in communities on Long Island, including Southold and Riverhead in particular . Again, I have a copy here . If it ' s okay with you, I will just submit this . So based on our site visit and the review of the DEC ' s databases , our certified ecologist concluded that removal of portions of the site would not result in any significant adverse impacts . Getting back to the open space and farmland preservation issue , I would reiterate a few things we did say in our prior testimony very quickly . In the many decades of open face and farmland preservation programs , this parcel has never been used for agricultural purposes . It has never been included on any list on open space or farmland preservation . Suffolk County gave the parcel a 21 out of a 100 , as far as its July 5, 2022 31 value for open space . And the Town ' s community open preservation project, the CPPD, which was updated in 2016 wasn ' t eligible for site preservation . And this is because it didn ' t meet the criteria outlined in the CPPD . And it wasn ' t identified by the Town Planners or the community stakeholders in 1998 or when it was updated in 2016 . I think it ' s important to list some of those criteria that was considered and why it ' s not on there . One the size of the parcel that you heard . The 1998 list started looking at 10 acre parcels , but then it went to under 10 acres . The consistency and objectives of the planning initiative undertaken by the Town would consider . It list the number of different things . Social , recreation, economics . Our parcel was never considered to be important for any of those reasons as far as maintaining community character . And the last point kind of anoints to the project location specifically outside the hamlet center . July 5, 2022 32 We did provide some new maps for you guys , which I think would make this testimony a little more understandable and we would like you to entertain that . If not -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Let ' s put it up . MR . LOU BEKOFSKY : While we ' re doing that, I will continue speaking in the effort of time . You know, we heard it today . We heard it throughout the opposition that was here -- a few members that were opposed at the last hearing . Affordable Housing, but not this specific location . We heard that per the Town Code in particular, Affordable Housing must be located in a Hamlet center or Halo zone . So we went back and looked at Section 280-26 of the code . That list a number of locations that may be desirable for Affordable Housing and it does include land and Hamlet zones , walking distance and shops , etcetera, public transportation or land that is next to centers of July 5, 2022 33 business ; however, what was not mentioned was the last bullet in that code . It doesn ' t say that it must only use those locations because you have the foresight to understand that might be limited . The code language states that Affordable Housing can be in other locations where the product has been shown to meet a demonstrable need . That is a direct quote from Section 280-26 of the Town Code . Other locations where the product has been shown to meet a demonstrable need . Clearly, Affordable Housing is a nee as has been articulated in the Comprehensive Plan and certainly by the members of the public who spoke at the last hearing and today . And I think it was also important that are no Affordable Housing units available right now in Cutchogue . 0 acres of HD zone property . So this idea -- and I mentioned this at the last hearing . The idea of limiting Affordable Housing only to the Hamlet center and Halo Zone isn ' t feasible to address Affordable Housing July 5, 2022 34 in any near turn . It ' s a great exercise and I applaud you for doing it , but reality is , if you want to address this crisis that you have identified, we cannot be limited to only parcels within the Hamlet . I want to just walk you through . We did this analysis over the last week or so . This is just an outline of your Hamlet zone in blue and your Halo zone in yellow . So there are 144 parcels in a Hamlet center and Halo zone combined . We estimated that about 3 . 6 acres or so would be required to support a product just like our size . With the infrastructure and the actual housing and building themselves . We go to the next slide . I am sorry, you can leave this . It ' s hard to see here, but 137 of the 140 parcels or 97 % are not large enough to support a project of this size . At least 7 parcels to consider within the Hamlet zone . 2 of the 7 parcels right here , are already preserved or planned to be preserved . Already in the CPPD . At least 5 remain . July 5, 2022 35 Of those -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : It doesn ' t mean it ' s actively being preserved . MR . LOU BEKOFSKY : One is actively preserved and one plans to be preserved . So of those 5 remaining parcels that are out there , those plan to be preserved out , one is a single family home and not likely going to turn over to Affordable Housing in the near term . One is an established agricultural use, which is towards the bottom of the screen . And two are community facilities . Right . So one is a school and one is a church . So that leaves one parcel in the Hamlet enter or Halo zone . That has the size needed and not established to be preserved . So again, this idea that Affordable Housing can only be in the Hamlet zone and Halo zones is not supported by the code . You left that option to other sites that show a demonstrable need . And the reality is , there is not enough properties to July 5, 2022 36 effectively meet that need that is here . For all these opinions , we think that denying a change of zone simply because it ' s not located in a Hamlet center or Halo zone would just be limited your ability to kind of meet this crisis . So I am going to ask David Gallo -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Can I just get some clarification? We actually pending projects in Cutchogue that have already approached us that will hold 48 units . So there are other parcels out there that would support it . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Only one . It hasn ' t come before the Town Board yet . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : They are out there . I would agree it ' s hard to find all of your options within the Hamlet zone . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Do you mind if I just ask you a question? So we heard the applicant make the point a few times that choice is not between preservation and this housing because it July 5, 2022 37 will be -- you know, either mega mansions or Affordable Housing . But during the last hearing we heard Legislature Krupski suggest that the County was willing to preserve this . In fact, had made an offer to the applicant previously to preserve it . Is that not relevant? MR . LOU BEKOFSKY : I can ' t speak to those conversations . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : You just said the choice was not between the preservation and this . So is it or not? MR . DAVE GALLO : Hello . David Gallo . President of Georgica Green Ventures , 50 Jericho Quadrangle . So when Lou had made that remark, he was referring to site plan . So when we ' re talking about preservation, what we have done here , 500 -- we ' re actually up to 54 . We want to be up to a certain number here . Where we can actually preserve much of this site, while still have the Affordable Housing that currently is built here . That was July 5, 2022 38 the -- COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Just to be clear, he did say the choice is not between preservation and Affordable Housing and it ' s between residential housing or Affordable Housing -- MR . DAVE GALLO : We have to define preservation . What we said is , right, we would love to provide through a covenant and restriction that back portion does remain preserved . Right . So you know, we heard a lot . We focused on a lot after the hearing . This is the outcome of it . So we heard a lot about preservation and how can we do that . So we looked at the particular site plan and said, how do we make sure that the site does remain mostly intake? And what we ' re saying is , we think we can get 50o there . Maybe 54 % untouched . And we ' re willing to do a C&R to make sure that never happens . And in addition to that, what we also heard from the public was , hey, we got to keep things just the way they are . How do we July 5, 2022 39 do that? And Allison, can you go to the next slide? So that is what ' s there right now, right . Go to the next slide . That would be the entrance . You drive by, it will be very similar . We don ' t need to open everything up . We don ' t need a sign . So two of the major things we heard was , how do we make sure that this entire site is not cleared? Great . We as the applicant are willing to sign a C&R of 500 open space . How do we make sure that everybody that drives by today or 100 years from now will continue to see the same thing that we ' re seeing? And we ' re saying, we ' re going to make an access road . If there were two homes built there, it would still need that . So all we ' re saying is , this will look very similar to what it does right now . And I do feel like , we do listen to the public . We do listen to the Board . We listen to the supervisor and the surrounding community and issues that we think we can address and still bring the Affordable Housing . So I am here to July 5, 2022 40 answer any questions . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Several times the comment was made that the parcel isn ' t eligible for preservation . All the properties are eligible for preservation . I am not sure -- MR . DAVE GALLO : So I think -- the County -- he can probably answer preservation better than I can . But I know there is a process by which the County looks at all the particular sites and there is a public process . And you can go on right now and it ' s very transparent . This particular site scores a 21 out of 100 . Right . So it goes through every reason . I believe there is a committee, that would objectively look at, does this site on our county system score high? And the site doesn ' t . So that means that the County can ' t do . The Town can . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I imagine the Town spends a great deal of preservation than the County does . MR . DAVE GALLO : Understood . July 5, 2022 41 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Didn ' t Legislator Krupski offer to preserve this parcel ? It seemed like he suggested that? COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Greg, I think your question before about the choice between preservation or Affordable Housing, it ' s -- it ' s not that choice because it ' s privately owned . So you know, you ' re trying to say that it ' s a choice between -- a choice between protecting it, but that ' s not necessarily the case because it ' s privately owned . Not something -- COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I am not saying it ' s -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Guys -- COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I am saying that it ' s more than anything -- the point has been made continually and I felt honestly it was pretty compelling . You know, it ' s going to be developed no matter what . But it seems like we got new information during the last hearing . And I am just trying to July 5, 2022 42 get to the bottom of that . Has an offer been made to preserve this ? MR . DAVE GALLO : It was at -- it was in his office . It was informal suggestion that an offer could be made . Like I said, there is a process from what I understand . I have never been a land owner that has gone through the county program, but I know there is a scoring . There is a committee . Perhaps he said -- you know, I would like to see this kept as open space or preserved . But I don ' t want to speak for him . Nor did I think that particular conversation was necessarily, you know, here is a million dollars . There was no dollar amount . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I have not spoken to him about it either . As we were talking about this point about what the choice is , I guess , I want to understand what the choice is . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: It ' s not our choice . That is what I am trying to say . July 5, 2022 43 JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : We have a couple of more people from online who are trying to -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : At the same time , you are telling us we have two choices , high density housing or residential housing . And in fact , that is not true either . Because you ' re right, it ' s not our choice . I mean, you know, I am just saying, all options are on the table . There is nothing that is precluded because it is eligible for preservation . And to get into the Town ' s Preservation Fund, it would literally take about three weeks . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Again, only if the owner agrees . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : But I am saying eligible . Eligible . They said it ' s not eligible . I said it ' s eligible . MS . RONA SMITH : I think it ' s a viable question you are asking . So I will answer it as best as I can . If our investigations tell us that there is no July 5, 2022 44 where in Cutchogue that we can build this , in a Hamlet or in a Halo zone, and we have ownership of this piece of property, does it not suggest that if it were preserved, that 24 units of Affordable Housing would not be built? There is a bottom line here . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : As it relates to this parcel . Absolutely . MS . RONA SMITH : Preservation is an asset in certain situations . It ' s a really great thing that we do, but here we have something for a very specific thing has been planned to go in this specific place . We ' re not finding ant scientifically environmental reasons why this would do any harm in this site . And to preserve it would mean to back off 24 hours because there isn ' t any place that I can find to build it . And you know, the thought of building something in the middle of Cutchogue , I don ' t know, after 10 , 12 years of Harvest Pointe and people being up in arms about the traffic . The thought of July 5, 2022 45 putting something like this in the middle of Cutchogue, even if the property did exist where we could build it, would certainly make a lot of people unhappy all over again . So this was a desire to find a property that would not impinge on anything . And it doesn ' t . The special groundwater protection area, as Lou has said, was essentially 30 years ago in 1993 , was developed to protect the aquifer from runoff from pesticides . It was looking at curbing agricultural processes that were harming our water . The water that we will use will not be well . We ' re digging . We ' re tapping into Suffolk County Water Authority pipeline that runs under Route 48 . We are trying to be very light on the environment . The reason is David --David is more diplomat that I am. I think I have to address issues directly but we have sat down with our architects and site planners and looked at what we could . At the present time , on this site, three buildings that were shown to July 5, 2022 46 be two-story ' s , total 22 , 000 square feet of built space . And that means it ' s less than 100 of a 246, 000 square foot parcel . This will sit very lightly . We are going our very, very best to honor the land and honor Southold . And the reason David showed you the picture that we took of the way Route 48 looks now in front of this property and the way it would look with a 33 foot driveway, is almost indistinguishable . It ' s not exposed to the road . This will not interrupt the ecologic look of the area . I understand people wanting to preserve agriculture . So do I . I am an environmentalist at heart . That is the way I lean . We are trying to make these housing units as net- zero as possible . We are trying to move this at a direction forward . So that Southold can be a leader in doing things in the best possible way with the best possible practices . And so that is why I felt I had to address this issue of preservation because it sort like July 5, 2022 47 consider it preservation or built this , and I mean, it ' s apple and oranges . Preserving this means not building this . That is the conundrum . People have to lose somewhere . People tell me the rental in Southold is moving towards zero . More and more people are benefitting from Air BNB ' s . Some are rentals . So they don ' t put their property for rent on a year long basis . And people are living somewhere . So they ' re living in unsafe accommodations . They are living, 4-5 families in a house, with each family has one room of a house, with one kitchen and one bathroom. These things are in a jar here, but they will help out in some way . We shouldn ' t warehouse people because of their incomes . They have to treat all the people who want to live and work in Southold as members of the community with potential to be volunteer fireman, with potential to join Town communities . That is what made this community so enticing to me . The magnet July 5, 2022 48 is the diversity that we have . Economic diversity, first and foremost . You know, we don ' t know how much money someone has . You don ' t look for status signals generally . You ' re looking a person in the eye and you ' re judging them based on who they are and what they do and what they can do . And let ' s think about that . That is the character of Southold . The character in Southold is in the way that we conduct ourselves . And I hope we can continue that . This is just one of the ways to accentuate that . So I had to get a chance to speak . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I just had a couple of questions in regards to the groundwater protection because my understanding is that was fundamentally changed not that long ago, after the Suffolk County data collection developed a new distinction that went over to septic systems . And even more critically with Suffolk County Water Authority, the draw down on the July 5, 2022 49 groundwater . MR . DAVID WUGMAN : Good evening, Mr . Supervisor . My name is David Wugman . I am the Senior Environmental Manager for VHB . So with regards to the special groundwater protection area, there is only one ( inaudible ) plan that has been adapted for that . And that was the Long Island Regional Planning Board in 1992 . And so those recommendations and findings still remain in effect and still remain in the Comprehensive Plan for these SGPA ' s including Southold . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Was it like a 9E study and I think 2020 . I think it started in 2020 . That would have shifted the groundwater protection strategies to Suffolk and drawdown -- MR . DAVID WUGMAN : So I think if I understand the question . There have been studies that have been particularly undertaken by the Suffolk County Department of Health Services . They ' re the agency that is primarily in charge of protecting of water resources . And July 5, 2022 50 the way that they do that is through regulations through the Suffolk County code . There are multiple chapters . The ' 19 Article VI , first and foremost has to do with water supply . And we use the sanitary systems . And Article VII also has to do with the protection of drinking water . And Article IX was recently adopted, having to do with the use of innovative alternative wastewater treatment systems . There are relevant provisions of that . And I think you have heard from the applicant as well as myself and Mr . Bekofsky, that such a system would be implemented here . And what is great about those systems is that they have active treatment that are incorporated . So one of the members mentioned earlier, it ' s a major leap forward in that regard as compared to traditional onsite systems . And so I think that -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Yeah . That shows that there was a ( inaudible ) in how you evaluate the groundwater . In July 5, 2022 51 other words , they moved away from the focus of agriculture and put it on residential development and drawdown on the water table . It just shows everybody through groundwater protection, about agricultures . Yeah, it wasn ' t the 1970 ' s . It wasn ' t any more and it hasn ' t been in a long, long time . Again, that has been collected in the new distinction that has been made, that is , all the sources of Nitrogen . That the thinking in the groundwater management are shifted way beyond agriculture at this point . It has moved into a new direction . No regulations come from either . No plan to switch . MR . DAVID WUGMAN : Those are our recommendations that are there . It wasn ' t that we didn ' t consider discharges from residential development into the future . Those are acknowledged in the plan and they talk about different programs that can be used . TDR programs and this sort of thing . And certainly the Town has been July 5, 2022 52 thoughtful about implementing all the different programs related to that over the several decades , which is why I guess in a way, to be able to consider residential waste . I think most important there is that they do have regulations in place that are modern, that are current . And this project would exceed all of those requirements . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : It has been shifted quite a bit since the 1970 ' s . TDR ' s , which is something that was mentioned two weeks ago , I wanted to address that too, but I will wait to hear what else people have to say . MR . DAVID WUGMAN : Yeah . Okay . There is a gentleman, Matt Schneider, who is a member that can further address the groundwater protection . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Great . MR . MATT SCHNEIDER : Mr . Supervisor, Members of the Board . My name is Matt Schneider . I am from Robinson & Muller or R&M Engineering, 50 Hunt Street, Huntington . We are the July 5, 2022 53 wastewater consultants for GGV Team. I have a Bachelor ' s Degree in Engineering . A Master ' s Degree in Environmental and Waste Management . I am a licensed professional engineer in the State of New York . I have 20 years of experience designing sewage disposal systems . So I can tell you these IA systems are designed by code . Article IX Code requires a minimum of 70% removal of efficiency . Which is 19 milligrams per liter . What we have seen as many of these systems get as low as even 10 to 12 . So we can see roughly 80% removal of efficiency by the removal of the IA systems . Now that being said, I have designed three projects for Georgica Green Ventures and -- that are already constructed and operating . And all three of them have water usage that is significantly lower than the Suffolk County standards require , which we design everything to Suffolk County standards . We see typically -- I have data that can support it , 40% at the July 5, 2022 54 most of the design standard is what we see as the average amount of water usage from these types of projects . So we ' re talking about a much, much lower amount of Nitrogen going into the ground than what is actually allowed by code . Everything about this project will be designed with, is going to exceed the standard significantly . The amount of Nitrogen going into the ground is much less than what you might expect . So I just want to make that very clear . Relative to the subject of protection of groundwater, the main constituent of concern, as I mentioned, Nitrogen, it ' s -- frankly speaking, it ' s a blip on the radar . It -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I agree . I just wanted to make it clear that the ongoing statements about the groundwater protection area being about farming simply isn ' t true . It hasn ' t been for years . MR . MATT SCHNEIDER : Well , the one thing that I can say, according to the July 5, 2022 55 USPCA, the number one source of Nitrogen and groundwater in the United States is agriculture . There is over 300 million people in this country flushing toilets . And it ' s still agriculture . Still the number one source of Nitrogen in our groundwater in this country . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : ( Inaudible ) and it might be from a National perspective . MR . MATT SCHNEIDER : Thank you for your time . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . MS . KATIE CASEY : Hi . Thank you so much . Sorry about my technical difficulties earlier . Good evening, Supervisor and Town Board members . At the last Southold Town Board Meeting, discussion regarding this application to develop Affordable Community Rental Housing in Cutchogue . A comment by the member of the public caught my attention that I believe warrants a fact base response . That comment suggested that July 5, 2022 56 Affordable rentals would increase crime in the area . I requested from the East Hampton Town Police Department all records from the past 2 years related to police reports filed for alleged criminal activity on East Hampton Housing Authority properties . I received back two reports . Both of which detailed incidents wherein residents of Housing Authority properties were victims of crime . One, Petty Larceny . The other, schemed to defraud in the Second Degree . I have knowledge of one other police action conducted by the Suffolk County Drug Task Force in the past two years involving drugs and an unlicensed firearm on the Housing Authority property . In that instance , the alleged perpetrator had already been under surveillance when they moved into the Housing Authority managed apartment, but had not yet been convicted of a crime . That tenant was promptly removed from the apartment with cooperation from July 5, 2022 57 their family . As a side , that tenant was born and raised in East Hampton . In two years , only one crime was allegedly comitted by an East Hampton Housing Authority resident . Residents of Affordable Housing should not be disparaged based on their economic circumstances . I hope you find this information helpful in your local deliberations . And I am at your disposal should you want additional information . I am the Executive Director of the East Hampton Housing Authority, 316 Accabonac Road, East Hampton . And I thank you for your time . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . Who else would like to address the Town Board on this particular -- JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : There is another person on Zoom. Allison -- BOARD ROOM : That is our Allison who is doing the presentation for you . JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Okay . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Please be succinct because I have pages of July 5, 2022 58 questions that I want to ask -- MS . GAIL WICKHAN : This will be quick . And it has to do with the Hamlet of Cutchogue . And I do think that the Comprehensive Plan as I mentioned is gradual . And as you move out from the Hamlet , the density lowers . That doesn ' t seem to be imposing a strict line on the Halo . As long as you are within that vicinity of those services and the transportation and everything else . So yes , maybe there is a limited factor in the very center . But certainly, if you are somewhere on Main Road, the vicinity of the Halo or upward of the lanes , I don ' t think that is the position . And I just want to make that clear . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : The Halo ' s get thrown around pretty loosely here . And they are not a requirement but they ' re a strong recommendation . Just so everybody understands that . There is a lot of the public that understands about Halo . No , there is no July 5, 2022 59 requirement to put it in the Halo but it ' s strongly recommended . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Well , the applicant points out that it doesn ' t need to be in there . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I just wanted to make sure everybody understood that . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: And also my thought on that , is I agree looking somewhere near the Halo but when we want to talk about sprawl , you know, that is where it would happen . It would be right outside of the Halo as opposed to a parcel to be built farther away . Creating sprawl would be to look outside of the Halo and start building that way . Doesn ' t necessarily seem like the best option either . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : And I have to be honest, to an extent, we ' re asked to be working with cross purposes . The public has been very supportive of purchasing hundreds of acres of land and around that immediate area . We have July 5, 2022 60 some that we ' re closing on soon . And yet , we ' re asked to support a very high density -- the highest density that Southold Town offers to the zoning . So we ' re being asked to work for cross purposes . So just so you understand the difficulty in trying to weigh all that stuff . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Doesn ' t that in a way create a trait? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : A trait for what? COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Everything is preserved in that area . We have already preserved all of the parcels in that area . That you know, to this point, you know, very few parcels available in Cutchogue . I for one am not looking to create sprawl just outside of the Halo . Just a thought . COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : That is how I internalized the whole overall discussion . And Councilwoman Nappa has brought up we do need a conversation about what Affordable Housing or July 5, 2022 61 obtainable looks like . And I am just glad to know that it ' s not just one answer . That we can ' t have our great CPF and preserving land . And you can have housing within the Halo . And you can have a project that dreaming that somebody can have the American Dream and rent a Hamlet like Cutchogue when there is no where else to go . So I see it , why can ' t you have all those different options , as are view of how we view housing in Southold . So I want every option . Like you said, we should be preserving land . And I don ' t think one works against the other . That just takes every tool that you have , a hammer, to obtain Affordable Housing when you use a more refined tool . You know, that gives you more options . And I think we need every tool . And I feel like we ' re developing our plan by going through these iterations of what ' s appropriate and what is a little bit out of the Halo . I understand the Halo . We even had conversations about extending July 5, 2022 62 the Halo zone . So it ' s hard to see it all together but I can see the pieces all coming together . And we have to have the conversation . To continue to weigh each project for its merits . The ones that are well managed . The ones that can back up what they say and do . And I believe that , projects are coming forward that they can backup what they ' re saying . And I think we have scrutinize as much as we can scrutinize and have the answer that we ' re going to make density that it ' s -- you know, not here . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Can I just point out, I think there has to come a time when we have to close out the Public Hearing and enter debate as a Town Board . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: You did raise a point that you had some questions and I would like to hear those . And see how they are addressed . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I have questions . I don ' t know that they ' re July 5, 2022 63 pertinent to the conversation in the decision making . There were issues that were raised and my nature is to say, wait a second . You said we never created a TDR program . I am not -- there is a reason we didn ' t do that . There was a little bit -- you know, to put that into a recommendation or to put that into a fine line , the Town never created a TDR program . We didn ' t need to . It says it right here . There is no need to get into it . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Did you have anything that you wanted to sort of address with them? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : On this particular application? The things that got raised, no . I guess from an academic perspective, I wanted to reference the TDR program and things like that . At the end of the day, it ' s really not affecting my decision making . I doubt anyone else ' s for that matter . MS . GAIL WICKHAN : I would like to respond to that last conversation . You July 5, 2022 64 can ' t just put it anywhere . What I am talking about is a gradual expansion of the Halo zone . And I would just like to hand up this letter . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I would just ask one question . You said this was not eligible or wasn ' t targeted for preservation, but isn ' t there some circumstances in the South that declare that a scenic bi-way . And some parcels that are not targeted for preservation simply because wanting a place that would achieve the fundamental goals that they ' re trying to achieve . Sometimes the zoning in place is what works . Sometimes it ' s not so true . I mean, that would have to be something to consider . MR . LOU BEKOFSKY : So when we ' re referencing the word "eligible " , we are taking it out of the CPPD . Listed eligible parcels and the history and that is what we were referencing . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I understand . July 5, 2022 65 MR . LOU BEKOFSKY : That it was deemed by a number of people . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I understand . I was part of a Board that created that . MR . LOU BEKOFSKY : Understood . MR . MATT SCHNEIDER : I think that is what we mean when we say it ' s indicated eligible . That when you pull up the map and identify several properties that have been preserved, it shows several properties that have been identified and flagged for preservation . And then it identifies in the legend, parcels as being ineligible . That map, I believe , was presented in one of the slides here . So just a matter of information for the Board ' s consideration . One of the several ways in which the subject property we ' re talking about today can be distinguished from -- that are present throughout the Hamlet because so many acres have been identified through the decades of open space and planning and farmland July 5, 2022 66 preservation . The parcel is a unique opportunity in many ways because it hasn ' t been targeted for preservation -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Well , that language, it hasn ' t been targeted, not preferred . But to say it ' s ineligible in simply not true . MR . MATT SCHNEIDER : Again, that ' s just -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I get it . I get it . MR . MATT SCHNEIDER : Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Anybody else like to address the Town Board on this particular? Anybody on Zoom land? BOARD ROOM : Nope . Nobody ' s hands are raised . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I will make a motion to close the hearing . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Second . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in favor? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye . COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye . July 5, 2022 67 COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye . JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MR . MARK SOLOMON : Mark Solomon, I live in Breeze Point Condominiums , Shipyard Lane . I came tonight expecting a vote . Why is it being tabled? Is there a reason for that? Is something else being considered? Based on the past conversations in the past few weeks , it was said that new proposal didn ' t meet either the current zoning or the projected zoning . So what is the issue now? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : We had a conversation at the Work Session today and we ' re -- MR . MARK SOLOMON : I was at the Work Session and I was told it was not going to be discussed in the Work Session . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Well , we ' re not ready to discuss that tonight . We decided that we ' re not ready to vote July 5, 2022 68 on that tonight . So -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I think there are members who want to take a step back and see options . Some of us don ' t agree with that . Some of us agree we should move forward with what is on the table . What I can tell you, of all the discussions we have had, none of it was in consideration of the presentation to the Town Board . That had no bearing on any of the decision making . MR . MARK SOLOMON : Was there a time table for your vote? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I was hoping 5 minutes from now . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Two weeks . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Two weeks . MR . MARK SOLOMON : Another two weeks . Thank you very much . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Would anybody else like to address the Town Board on any issue? MS . ANNE MURRAY : So I don ' t know . July 5, 2022 69 I was not at the Work Session this morning . What is the postpone of the House size vote? Can somebody explain that? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : We ' re still deliberating . We ' re still talking about all the comments that we got from the Public Hearing and we ' re not ready to vote on that . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Based on the feedback that we got from the Public Hearing, we ' re discussing a change that is potentially significant enough that MS . ANNE MURRAY : Can you tell me what that change is? COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: It was in Public Session . It ' s the -- MS . ANNE MURRAY : I was not able to here everything that was said on Zoom. There were problems with the microphones . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: The section regarding the Pyramid Law . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : There is July 5, 2022 70 a couple of issues . First, one is simply address the effective date . That would not require a new Public Hearing because that is such a de minimus . MS . ANNE MURRAY : That is minor . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : And then there are other discussions with the Town Board about the sky plane and if that ' s touched, that would require a whole new Public Hearing . So that is where we are at and having that discussion now . MS . ANNE MURRAY : Do you have an idea on when that would be completed? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I would imagine in two weeks . We will have a definitive answer . Michael Verity will be coming in . And like I said, there were some issues of what would be resolved . And I would expect that in two weeks we would have a few draft depending on what the outcome was . MS . ANNE MURRAY : Right . If there is anything that we, from the Civics , can do to help you out with that, we July 5, 2022 71 have the architects and everything that worked on that . Just let us know . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Thank you . BOARD ROOM : Jordan, you have permission to speak . MR . JORDAN : Hi . Thank you for letting me speak . I read in Suffolk Times today about an e-mail blast about the investigation into the police retirement party and its coverup finally being complete . Is that the case and what are the next steps ? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : First of all , I am not going to reference the term " cover up . " Those are your words and not the words of any individual . Actually the Town Board specifically investigated today . We found some of the facts very troubling . And we have been instructed by counsel to move forward with everything in place . And to consider whatever may not require disciplinary procedures . MR . JORDAN : Can you say that again July 5, 2022 72 in plain English? That was a lot of fancy words there . So what is the next step? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : We have instructed our labor counsel to take any and all steps necessary to put a process in place . So we can evaluate whether disciplinary action is needed or not . MR . JORDAN : And so why can ' t you guys decide, hey, we need to fire the police? It ' s like outrageous what he allowed his members to do and we can ' t trust his judgement? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Well , there is this sticky little thing called due process , I suppose . MR . JORDAN : Due process that takes two years to do an investigation that should take a couple of weeks ? That ' s due process ? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I don ' t have professional insight needed -- as to how long an investigation should take . I am disappointed as long as it did -- July 5, 2022 73 MR . JORDAN : Two years . You don ' t need to be professional or not professional . It ' s an outrageous amount of time . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : But the suggestion that we ' re only taking two weeks is something you or me or neither qualified to make -- MR . JORDAN : -- you got the four neighbors who complained . You have the cellphone -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Ask a question -- I am sorry, I thought you wanted an answer when you asked the question? MR . JORDAN : I would like an answer, what is the next step that you guys are going to do to be -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : The next step, we have directed labor counsel to put any and all processes so that we can decide whether disciplinary actions are required . MR . JORDAN : And can you explain what that means ? If the guy come back July 5, 2022 74 to you and says we can fire him -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I am not MR . JORDAN : You can slap him on the wrist , you can rub his belly . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I cannot discuss it beyond what I just did because they are matters of personnel . And they are -- MR . JORDAN : And it ' s also matter of civic understanding . These police may have had a party and may have lied about it at a time when people couldn ' t go to funerals . And it took two years to look into that . Seems pretty important . These police we need to trusts to hold guns , to arrest people . To basically serve as our defense . We need to be able to trust them? How do we do that? What is the step for the community to be able to have that trust? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : We are taking all the steps necessary to bring that to a resolution . And we will pursue disciplinary procedures on any July 5, 2022 75 one or any time that we determine that discipline was required . MR . JORDAN : Of course you are going to -- you could have done that two years ago . Of course you ' re going to take what is appropriate . But the question is when are you going to do it and what are the -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : We did MR . JORDAN : Clearly, you are not doing everything possible to do it, if it took two years . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I am disappointed with the length of the investigation too . I will tell you -- MR . JORDAN : What are the next steps ? Forget about what has happened in the past . What are the next steps? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I already issued my statement . I am not going -- MR . JORDAN : You said in due time . The last time you said that , it took two years . July 5, 2022 76 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I can ' t respond beyond what I said . Personnel item. MR . JORDAN : Like -- COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : We got the report today and we took action today, as far as we can -- MR . JORDAN : When do we get to find out about it? The guy who holds guns -- COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : There is a due process . There is a process through this and we took the steps immediately -- MR . JORDAN : The last due process took two years . We all agreed it was a ridiculous amount of time . That wasn ' t due process . So what is due process now? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : We have to go through the process and certain things take time by statute . And we hope to have something in the next few weeks , but we have no idea how long that is going to take and we have no definitive answer we can give you, other July 5, 2022 77 than, we have taken this very seriously and we took the next steps immediately today as soon as we got the report . MR . JORDAN : I guess a question, how do you let something happen for -- I think drag on for two years ? Two years . Twenty-four months . Seven hundred or whatever days . How are you taking something seriously to allow something to go on for that long? It ' s awfully quiet up there . Any other supervisors want to talk? It ' s not just Scott who is to blame here . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . MR . JORDAN : You deserve -- not you . You are not doing this just because you ' re an evil person . There are clearly pressures being put on everybody . So what do the other supervisors think about this? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Look, I am going to speak on behalf of the Board and say everybody gave you the best answer as they can under these July 5, 2022 78 circumstances because they -- MR . JORDAN : Scott, it seems like you ' re the only one talking on behalf of the Board . You are the Supervisor obviously . But there are five members on the Board . A couple of whom have great ambitions for them . What do people think about this ? MR . JOHN BURKE : The Board is unable to comment on an open investigation . There -- the matter is -- MR . JORDAN : Why? MR . JOHN BURKE : Why? Because of contractual obligations with the police department . MR . JORDAN : What about with an investigator? MR . JOHN BURKE : There are no contractual obligations -- MR . JORDAN : I am taking this very seriously . It has taken two years . So how do we make sure that this keeps going? As Scott -- MR . JOHN BURKE : I am referencing July 5, 2022 79 the ability of the Town Board to comment on this . Limited by the fact that there is an active investigation . And their ability to comment on that is limited by the fact of the issues with the police department . And there is an active investigation . The matter has been referred to labor counsel . Counsel will now review this investigation . If labor counsel determines that there are disciplinary actions to be taken, then it will come to the Board and we will then to review and whether or not authorize those disciplinary issues . MR . JORDAN : But how long will this labor counsel take? Will it be another two years ? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : We are going to wrap this conversation up right now . I understand that you ' re disappointed in regards to the fact that it took two years . I am disappointed . I believe the entire Town Board is disappointed . Even beyond disappointed . It didn ' t need to take that long but it July 5, 2022 80 did . Now we ' re going to ensure that we ' re going to work as expeditious to avoid that type of delay moving forward . MR . JORDAN : Up till -- COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: And I will address my -- I will say -- MR . JORDAN : Say -- COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: I will just say on my perspective, two Board members were not here when we hired that investigator, but I was . And you know -- I did some due diligence on my part and brought an investigator to the table for the Board to chose from . There were other investigators that we looked at and interviewed . And ultimately the Board decided to go with a different investigator . You know, I did vote no on hiring this particular person . I had concerns back then . And obviously now e can see that there were reasons for that, that it has taken this long . And I agree with you . We discussed it . Outraged at the length of time that this investigation has taken . And would like July 5, 2022 81 to know, that myself and other Board members were following within these past two years . And there were -- it ' s not like we just let it go and never followed up again . We were trying to follow-up . We ' re asking for answers . It ' s not an excuse by any means because it is excusable that it has taken this long . And I completely agree with you and I understand your frustration . I can assure you, as soon as we were able to get written -- we did put sort of a hard deadline . That enough is enough . We need the report now . And we did receive it today and have already started to take steps . MR . JORDAN : You guys clearly have the ability to move quick . The Chief filed a report that everybody realized it was malarky and he gave it to the investigator . I get it . You did this fast . But how do we get it to move a little quicker? COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: I completely agree . Now that we have the July 5, 2022 82 investigation that has been concluded, now you have my -- I will commit to you that I am not going to let this languish . That I will stay on this and that we will have more information for ourselves and for the public in the next month, weeks -- weeks to month . MR . JORDAN : Great . In terms of report itself, I understand that other are privacy issues involving labor contract . But can you release the report without names so we can see the findings that -- that the investigator found? COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: I would defer to John on this , but I would probably say not during the investigation on this . MR . JOHN BURKE : Not during the course of the investigation . MR . JORDAN : Even without names ? MR . JOHN BURKE : Even without names . MR . JORDAN : That ' s what the corrupt politicians always say . "Hey, July 5, 2022 83 it ' s an open investigation . " But I don ' t understand why you can ' t redact it without names? We ' re not doing privacy issues here . It ' s not labor issues . What happened? Did people call the 911 ? Were the 911 calls reported? That kind of stuff doesn ' t need names and there is no kind of privacy, labor issues here . That is our community being told two years after this has happened, trust the police . The guys who carry guns to do the right thing . MR . JOHN BURKE : We are unable to produce this report during an open investigation . MR . JORDAN : Even with the names redacted? MR . JOHN BURKE : Even with the names redacted . Especially in a case where police force that is this small , that it would not be difficult to determine who the parties are . MR . JORDAN : Which may be part of the problem. MR . JOHN BURKE : Sorry? July 5, 2022 84 MR . JORDAN : Which might be part of the problem. MR . JOHN BURKE : Precisely the problem, because that would prevent us from taking any appropriate action -- MR . JORDAN : But not to small that people felt uncomfortable for following the rules . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : We answered . I gave you an answer . The Town Attorney gave you an answer and Sarah gave you answer . We answered . That is the best we can offer at this time . We are here . We understand you . We ' re not interested in letting it happen again . Okay? COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : And we ' re committed to moving forward . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : We have started . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : We made that clear to our counsel today . MR . ERIC MCCLURE : Good evening . That will teach me to defer . Thank you Supervisor Russell and members of Board . July 5, 2022 85 My name is Eric McClure . I am a resident of Browser Woods . You all might recognize my name because I emailed all of you this afternoon when the music started at Strong ' s Water Club and ten hours later when the music was still going on . I was going to come to the Board to raise the issue but unfortunately with COVID, and I wasn ' t sure if I had it or not . I wish I had . This just in a decade or so , Strong ' s Water Club, we had something like 20-30 hours of amplified music . A good portion being DJ music . Even with our windows closed, air conditioning running, we could not keep from hearing the thumping base . And talking about coming back on, I think we had our first meeting with Supervisor Russell 8 or 9 years ago and my neighbor Avery Watson, which I am sure you all know . And in 2019, we repeatedly begged the Town to do something about the opposition of Strong ' s into a residential neighborhood . They are a couple of 100 July 5, 2022 86 feet across a body of water, which amplifies the sound . The code is clearly inadequate within the code in terms of the sound . I drove by bike out to Bailey Beach Road and Green Road and you can hear it from there . I can almost guarantee it was within code for noise . And it ' s just become impossible . We couldn ' t open the windows . We couldn ' t use the yard . I have recordings on my phone of the noise coming . And I think some of it was coming from Strong ' s at night . You can ' t get anybody on the phone because personnel leave at 5 : 00 . And there seems to be no rules for Strong ' s Water Club . There is a house boat is playing the radio until 11 : 45 or 12 : 00 at night . I know Audrey has known Jeff for 30 years . She texts him frequently . We will turn the speakers around . We will do this . It never changes . It never gets better . If we had a family reunion this weekend or hosted a nephews wedding, they would be exchanging their July 5, 2022 87 vows with the Village people drowning with the music playing hours upon hours . I am sorry to take up your time . I know it has been a long night . I am going to keep coming back to the meetings until we figure out how to get this addressed because it ' s really unattainable . I invite you, if you are willing to share your phone number, I would call you and tell you to come on over and have a listen and tell me if you think this is acceptable in a residential neighborhood and you will not . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I will give Jeff a call and have a conversation with him and see if we can make things a little better . I will do that . MR . ERIC MCCLURE : Thank you . It needs to be a lot better . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Just so you know, Eric, I have known you for years . I am always happy to take your e-mail and things . I am not responding at this point because I can ' t . I have to recuse myself . July 5, 2022 88 MR . ERIC MCCLURE : I know . You live over there . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: I also did plan on, after receiving your e-mail , plan and go on board to discuss it . If you want to send a letter, Code Enforcement . Something like that . MR . ERIC MCCLURE : I appreciate that . We kind of gave up on calling the police a long time ago . Because they would say, well , we will go over there and ask them to turn them down . At this point . I appreciate everybody ' s efforts . And look forward to continuing this conversation with you and hopefully finding something that makes it more livable . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : George? Fireworks ? MR . GEORGE LAMOGA: I knew you knew it . I am George LaMoga . I am in Mattituck . Well , can I -- I only have 5 of them. Just very quickly . I am going to be short and quick . This is bad . I called at least twice . Sometimes I am July 5, 2022 89 not home, but it ' s the fireworks . I happen to go Convention and all I am suggesting is , maybe we can do something different . I live right on the sound . And the group for the east end was going to try and save the clover that are down there nesting . And it looked good on Thursday . It looked good on Friday . It was quiet . But Sunday is started even more and yesterday was horrible . I closed the windows . I called the police . And what -- It ' s not the visual . It ' s the noise . I happen to have one of the neighbors make a very good suggestion . I don ' t know if you know, but they are doing away with the firework noise . Have you seen that? Many, many more . I hear there is going to be something proposed by the State to eliminate fireworks as well . So I am here primarily because of the noise and what went on, but it ' s Denis ' fault . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : We say that all the time . MR . GEORGE LAMOGA: And why it ' s July 5, 2022 90 Denis ' fault , I listened to the radio and this morning we are having breakfast and Denis goes on and says , folks , we got laws . Be nice to everybody out there . Well , I have been proposing several times . Why don ' t we do that with the fireworks . I am not dead set against fireworks . My kids , My grand kids all love it . I love when people get permits . I know it ' s going to go from 9 : 30 to 10 : 30 . The ones yesterday went until 1 : 00 in the morning . What happens when one neighbor does it , the other neighbor says , I got better . And they do it . Another one says , I got better . So it goes on and on and they try and out do each other . What I asking, let ' s limit the noise . My dogs will be happy . My wife will definitely be happy . And I think everybody will be happy . So I don ' t think there is any problems with issuing a permit . We know where it ' s going to be and how long . But maybe consider suggesting to cut the noise . Ironically, I worked in Ukraine . July 5, 2022 91 And in Ukraine were every nights . They had fireworks galore . 2014 changed everything . Out with all fireworks . The people I worked with there are here . Now they were in one country and now in a third country . What happened the other day in Chicago, we all should be worried . We thought it was fireworks . It wasn ' t fireworks was it? It was guns . Thank you very much for your work . I wouldn ' t want to go through this what you guys have to go through . I hope you can resolve it for the future . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you very much . Anybody else? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I make a motion to adjourn . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Second . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in favor? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye . COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye . July 5, 2022 92 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye . (Whereupon, the meeting concluded at this time . ) July 5, 2022 93 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I , JESSICA DILALLO, a Court Reporter and Notary Public, for and within the State of New York, do hereby certify : THAT the above and foregoing contains a true and correct transcription of the Meeting held on July 5 , 2022 , via videoconference , and were transcribed by me . I further certify that I am not related to any of the parties to this action by blood or by marriage and that I am in no way interested in the outcome of this matter . IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 31st day of July, 2022 . J ssica DiLallo