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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-06/21/2022 PH 1 COUNTY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW YORK TOWN OF SOUTHOLD -------------------------------------------------- TOWN OF SOUTHOLD REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING -------------------------------------------------- Southold, New York June 21 , 2022 4 : 30 P . M . B E F 0 R E : SCOTT A . RUSSELL, SUPERVISOR LOUISA P . EVANS , JUSTICE JILL DOHERTY, COUNCILWOMAN BRIAN 0 . MEALY, COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI , COUNCILMAN SARAH E . NAPPA, COUNCILWOMAN June 21, 2022 2 SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I would like to invite anybody who would like to comment on any of the agenda items , please feel free? MR . DUNN : About the million dollars for design? Did that go away? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : It ' s on the agenda, 542 . MR . DUNN : The price of a million dollars on that , to design that, doesn ' t -- I don ' t question that . But what I do question is , that is ultimately going to be a $ 30 million dollar project . Before we ( inaudible ) . We committed $3 million dollars to buy a bank and now we ' re not going to use it , but we still have a million dollar loan there . So a million dollars is a big number . So kind of old school . I think you ought to be a little further down the line or hold the hearing over on the project and do $ 30 million dollars . Just like you ' re going to do the million dollars there . I know you ' re going out and spending a million dollars tomorrow, you got to get the June 21, 2022 3 financing in place to spend it . It ' s a precursor . The $30 million dollars . And you all know what I am against . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I will try and clarify some of that . The bond counsel told us we needed plans . So that is why we ' re doing the million now -- MR . DUNN : We don ' t even know what we ' re installing yet . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Well , we have to tie it to a property . That is the first thing . So we ' re making plans for the Peconic Land piece of property but at the same time, we ' re also researching other properties and at the same time, we can find a better solution . Better property . And if we do, then we can use those plans and get a bond for another piece of property . MR . DUNN : Unless you get a piece of property that is not saying -- it could be rounded . It could be square . It could be rectangle . June 21, 2022 4 COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Well , for the most part, the plans for the buildings are going to be pretty much the same . MR . DUNN : Provided it fits on the piece of property that it ends up with . Like I am saying, you have a piece of property that you ' re thinking about that is fairly square . Well , the property that you end up could be very narrow . So you will have spent a million dollars . I really think you ought to lock in . You know I am totally against using -- that to me is wrong and backwards . So I just think, if you ' re going to call it, that you -- COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : That is what we did . We ' re using that land . We have to -- we can ' t even bond a million unless we lock into a property . So it has to be -- we have -- MR . DUNN : Before we commit to using recreational property, I think you ought to have a Public Hearing . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : As you June 21, 2022 5 heard us discuss , we are holding a public information session about this . You are aware of this ? It ' s in the works . MR . DUNN : It hasn ' t happened yet . Now we ' re doing a million dollars . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : We ' re authorizing the use of a million dollars . We ' re not actually spending a million dollars right now . And we see this happening concurrently . We know there is a need . We know we need to solve this problem . MR . DUNN : That is not a debate . My only problem is committing -- borrowing money and perhaps -- for design of something to put it on a piece of property . And I just -- doesn ' t seem right to me . Straighten out the issue for the property . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : That has been the problem for the past 10 years . We can ' t find the property . MR . DUNN : There is 4 or 5 acres available by the police station up until June 21, 2022 6 a year ago . So if somebody was asleep at the switch, they were asleep at the switch . There was a property over here up until a month or ago . There is a piece of property next to Peconic Lane -- COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Yes -- MR . DUNN : Right now . It has a For Sale sign on -- COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Right . And that -- MR . DUNN : So I don ' t think we ' ve really done our homework as good as we could have . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : There was a reason why we didn ' t do the 4 acres next to the police station at the time . I don ' t recall the reason right now . I would have to look at my notes . But the piece of property that you speak of right now is way too small for anything that we need . MR . DUNN : I am not saying it ' s perfect . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : But we June 21, 2022 7 have looked . MR . DUNN : Bottom line is , everybody is still content with taking park property here and nobody has approached the public on that and I think that is the wrong way to go . If you ' re going to take something from the public, you better at least inform them of it before you do it . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I will just say, Robert . Not everybody is in favor of taking park . The reality is , we would like to spend money and I think the public has to understand that we ' re going to be spending a lot of money . MR . DUNN : And it should and that is not a debate , Scott . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I agree with you on location . MR . DUNN : The big thing for me is the location . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Would anybody else like to address the Town June 21, 2022 8 Board on a particular agenda item? (No Response ) . (Whereupon, the Public Portion concluded at this time . ) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * CHAPTER 289 BIG HOUSES SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Would anybody like to comment first on this particular Local Law? MS . ANNE MURRAY : Good evening . My name is Anne Murray, East Marion Community Association, representative of the North Fork Civics . And I want to show this picture . You probably are all familiar with it . It ' s a giant house in the Hampton ' s . You get it . So this complex is actually 110 , 000 square feet . And the home in that complex is 62 , 000 square feet . Construction such as that brought the Town in the Hampton ' s to enact limits on house size in their jurisdiction . Southold and Riverhead have no such restrictions . So when I saw that picture, I thought if somebody buys 15 acres of farm land they could June 21, 2022 9 fit that house on that . This has resulted in construction of much larger of houses in our town . That limit the views and business of residents . Causing disruptions of neighborhoods by their massive size . For some time, some residents here in Southold have seen their views blocked by mansion style homes . That our out of character with their neighborhood . There was a growing chorus that something must be done to stop this . We in the North Fork Civics responding by doing our research, showing that one big home as many of you have seen, surveying our members and putting together a presentation for you, the Town Board . That is what the Civics have done . We hope that the Town Board will vote yes on this before we see Southold Town small fields disappear . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else would like to address the Town Board? MS . DRIANNE BRENNER : Hi there . I June 21, 2022 10 am Drianne Brenner from the Orient Association . I am a member of the Board and also a member of the North Fork Civics . We are a group that has been working collaboratively with the Town to address one of the points of the Comprehensive Plan, which is to limit house size . The out of scale homes in Southold . Even back in 2016, it was -- when we were working in Orient , our plan, East Marion was working on their plans . And our plans mirrored the Comprehensive Plan . We had the same framework . We looked at house size and what would be the character of Southold Town . And even back then, it was very predictable that the North Fork, Southold in particular would be in -- in the target zone of -- of anyone who could say that is a beautiful neighborhood . That is a wonderful place . I am going to build a huge house there . So again, the Comprehensive Plan addressed this . We support the Southold Comprehensive Plan to address house June 21, 2022 11 size . To maintain and preserve the community character of Southold Town . That Comprehensive Plan was adopted in August of 2020 . It was a Hamlet by Hamlet community . It represented over a decare of discussions and forums of the plan . And so this is not new news . Part of a plan that we have been talking about for a long time . We applaud the Southold Town Board for bringing this issue forward . Housing size issue forward . And working together with groups like ours to amend the building code . Based on the Town ' s Comprehensive Plan, we see the negative impact of oversized homes . Threatening the essence of Southold ' s community character . The very reason why many of us chose to live here . There is a consensus to prioritize to address the ever -- the trend of ever increasing house size before it ' s too late . The proposed code preserves the character of Southold Town, as well as , still allowing for fairly large homes . There June 21, 2022 12 is flexibility in this code . And over time there could be more changes to this code . To improve upon it or change it in any way . So this is a great step forward of preserving the value and values of Southold Town . So thank you so much for working so hard on this . Because we all care so much about this Town . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . MS . PATRICIA MOORE : Patricia Moore . I am a local attorney and I knew probably 900 of my practice is zoning and land use issues . And this law concerns me greatly . And I will start with the community character . I wasn ' t born here but for the past 35 years , I have definitely seen a character that has -- I don ' t want to say changed but developed . But if you go back to the 1800 ' s or 1600 ' s , this community has always been a mix of large homes from the wealthier and very small cottages from as fishing cottages . And that has June 21, 2022 13 been the character . Always been a mix of housing styles . A mix of architectural styles . And for the most part and -- I would like to know -- well , I haven ' t participated -- was invited to participate in any of the meetings that have occurred with regards to the Civic Associations suggestions for adoption of this law . But the Southampton example is not a very applicable example to this community . We do have large pieces but we also do have other -- other programs that are used to encourage people to developed proportionally, to sell their devolvement rights , to preserve land . To maintain agricultural uses . So that large house example and I think there was one that caused a great deal of problems in the many years at Southampton because it looked like a hotel . And it was developed somewhat like a hotel , but the family just wanted a large compound . It could be that example or it could be another one . June 21, 2022 14 But in any case , with respect to this particular law, I have some technical concerns the way that this law is structured . To begin with the issue of the sky plane is a significant concern when you apply it to certain properties . And when it is a applied to a property that has FEMA flood plane issues . By example, if you had a relatively small piece because remember some of the -- some of the FEMA issues are not just directly on the water . They could be one step or two step removed from the water because of the flood map and how it has been overlaid . So let ' s take a AE- 6 designation . That may not be a waterfront property . That may be something -- an area that is potentially subject to flooding from different sources . If you take an AE- 6 parcel , you must fill two feet above that . So you ' re now an AE-8 . So now if that is the point of where your finished floor is and your side plane and calculations brings your property to the 10 foot June 21, 2022 15 elevation . You got possible a foot and two feet . And then you ' ve got a triangle . And potentially you ' ve got a property that can be developed in this much of the property and this can be developed . So you ' re a parcel that is subject to FEMA regulations . You might end up with a lot that can ' t have a second floor . The Zoning code provides for height restrictions . So you can go above 35 feet, but with the FEMA and height restrictions , you can fit something that will fit on the property . Unfortunately, the character of the neighborhood has been dictated in many instances but other regulations . So you have the New York State Building Code that doesn ' t allow you to build or continue to use seasonal cottages . You have the FEMA regulations that say you can ' t build unless you elevated the house above the flood elevation . You have other agencies . You have Coastal Erosion . You have so many layers that have been placed one on top of the other June 21, 2022 16 on properties in this Town . That this is going to result in some significant financial and very serious hardships on the property . So you say, we provide for that . You need a variance . There is a method . There is a process . Well , that is another problem. Your trying to calculate livable floor area . With the Building Department records , one, are not accessible through Laserfiche . That has been a problem since Day 1 . And I was here when Laserfiche was added . Betty Neville, kudos , for doing that years ago and it has been maintained . And its a wonderful system. But somebody spoke out and opposed the Building Department records to be put in Laserfiche to be accessible , because somebody was afraid they might see the inside of their house . And complain of ( inaudible ) know where my kids bedrooms are . So the Board decided that, no, we ' re not going to include the Building Department records in Laserfiche . But you just created a law that says that June 21, 2022 17 when I go in for a variance , that I can assure you, we ' re creating a lot of variances under this regulation . I need to calculate in the neighborhood subject to whatever the Zoning Board decides is the neighborhood the livable floor area . Well , many of the homes don ' t have building plans to start with . So can ' t come up with that number out of the air . If there are building plans on record, now I am not an architect . I can probably hobble together livable floor area . But God forbid my client that has to pay me to try and figure out everybody on that block and their livable floor area, you have made it almost financially unreasonable and unfeasible to ask for a variance . And that is going to impact mostly the smaller properties in this community . Which are probably the least ones that can afford it . So the concept doesn ' t work . This is -- this is very scary . Those are my two main issues because I just could not understand how we were June 21, 2022 18 going to come up seeking a variance when you have made so many properties nonconforming . That being said, has anybody done in calculation determinations in this Town are going to be declared nonconforming? I would say there is probably more than you think . And as far as the SEQRA negative declaration, I would argue that you created not a huge financial impact on the community with the adoption of this law . The SEQRA in my book, this is not a negative declaration . In my view, it ' s a positive declaration because more has to be taken how this is going to be for this community . Another area, I see -- from Orient . The Village -- the Orient Village, the historic area, I would say probably majority of those properties and the homes that are in -- that are on those lots are going to be nonconforming . Again, you have created what it ' s been regulated with Historic District with an added now review on the sky plane . So there is just so many June 21, 2022 19 areas that this Town is going to be impacted . I am going to let you know, to get a Notice of Disapproval , it takes 5 weeks . The -- six weeks . Thank you . It takes 6 weeks to get a Notice of Disapproval . To get onto a Zoning Board calendar, if it ' s a good calendar, maybe 5 months . It could get us out 6 or 7 months depending on the volume that the Zoning Board has accumulated . So that period of time, it ' s a really -- it means that there is something wrong with our code when we need so many variances that it creates that kind of delay . And you ' re about to plop on a whole lot more . And I am -- as I said, I am very concerned . This is job security but very unpleasant job security . Not a very pleasant way when you ' re trying to help somebody put a dormer on their house and they try to go through these significant process . So I thank you for listening to me . Try it in a small neighborhood . Target a small neighborhood . Try it like you did the June 21, 2022 20 Historic Preservation . I wouldn ' t want to wish this on any community but I think you need to try it . At a minimum, take a couple of properties from the Building Department . I don ' t know if Mike Verity is here, but I would really like to hear from Mike Verity on this because he would know the impact on the Building Department to go through this . Thank you . MS . CATHERINE HARPER : Good evening . My name is Catherine Harper, and I am resident of Mattituck . And I own a local landmark home . I thank you so much . This is such a timely -- a very timely law that you have put together . I need to comment about Ms . Moore . Her earlier comments about the historical homes . Yeah . There were wealthy people in the early Southold Town . And there were not so wealthy people who built homes . There were no colonial mic-mansions . I mean, we know the difference between a wealthy persons house and a mic-mansion for goodness June 21, 2022 21 sake . A big home is not in the architectural vernacular of Southold . It just isn ' t . And to me, what you ' re trying to do is , trying to keep the North Fork looking like the North Fork . And thank you for doing that . We really need to hold it . Thanks . MS . MARINA DELUCA: Good evening, Supervisor Russell and Members of the Town Board . My name is Marina DeLuca . And I am an environmental associate for the east-end . And I also a full-time resident of East Marion . And I grew up in the Town of Southold . For the record, the ( inaudible ) founded in ' 97 and represents the community planning interests of several thousand households across the east end of Long Island . I appreciate the opportunity to provide comments on the proposed law . On December 4 , 2016, I attended a screening of the film One Big Home in Cutchogue Library . I was actually not there on my own volition . I think I was dragged there by my father because he was June 21, 2022 22 speaking in the area . For the -- and for those of you who don ' t know the film, this is what happened on Martha ' s Vineyard . A community similar to ours , that slowly but shortly became an area similar to the Hampton ' s . The impact this film had on me has not been forgotten since that point in time . I remember thinking that this is going to happen here . Not that it might happen . Not that it could happen . And not that it could happen 10 years from now . That this is something that is going to happen here . Since 2016 , I have seen more lights . More houses . More road kill , traffic, but most pertinent , bigger and bigger houses . And bigger does not always mean better . The proposed amendment is ( inaudible ) that makes this place worth protecting . We don ' t live in anywhere USA. This is something that locals and tourists alike can feel . We talk about it . We talk about a knowledge that this place is special . But we don ' t always talk about June 21, 2022 23 the things that make it so special . Over the course of a decade , community members and town officials of the like have worked to identify those special things and create a shared vision for the future of Southold, through our Comprehensive Plan . Small nonobtrusive homes that don ' t block out the sun, who repeatedly noted as a key component of the community character and something that we all desire to maintain . This doesn ' t mean that you can ' t build a big house . This means that you can ' t build a house that blocks out the sun . Thank you for introducing legislation that has helped preserve and protect our community character for years to come . Thank you for listening to the community and utilizing this Comprehensive Plan that took ten years to make . The proposed amendment is a fantastic step forward for the future of our community . If this amendment is adopted, it would be important for the Town ' s character ( inaudible ) amendment June 21, 2022 24 to make sure its goals are achieved . I would also encourage you to revisit this amendment in the future . Changes have to make it rapidly . This amendment is a necessity and we hope that you will chose to adopt it . Thank you very much for your time and consideration for these comments . MS . BARBARA FRIEDMAN : Hello . My name is Barbara Friedman . I am an architect and the current President of the Orient Association . I am here to thank the Town Board for bringing this legislation to the table . 18 months ago several of the local civic associations made a presentation to the Town Board urging the development of code to limit house size, as suggested by the Southold Comprehensive Plan adopted in 2020 . The proposal that the Town has presented today is a fair and reasonable approach in preserving the scale and character of neighborhoods in Southold . This amendment to the code is to limit the build of single family homes as they June 21, 2022 25 relate to their lot size and in context of neighboring homes . I disagree with Ms . Moore about the types of homes in Southold . We analyze data from the multiple listings found, that out of the 225 homes that were recently sold in Southold Town, that 48% were under 2 , 000 square feet . The smallest house was 780 square feet and the largest was 6 , 000 . The average was 2 . 257 square feet . This is a concept that new Southold is used in many of the east end municipalities . It limits the height of houses and the property lines where they most affect their neighbors . This pyramid law is much more restrictive than the one proposed here . And these Town ' s like Southampton and East Hampton also have FEMA flood zones . More intensive than ours . Mic-mansions will still be built as of right in this town, but hopefully they will be smaller and lower . Perhaps they will not dwarf their neighbors and block the sunlight by as much as this code has passed . Scott Russell , the June 21, 2022 26 Town Board, the Planning Commission and ZBA and Building Department , have proposed a code that will help keep Southold the kind of small scale town that so many of us treasure . Thank you . MS . VENETIA HANDS : Hello . My name is Venetia Hands . And I live in Orient . I am the past president of the Orient Association . And we are talking about this over the last few years . Some of you know and I know that this has been going on for a lot longer . When I was on the Chairman of the Orient Association, which was about 8 or 10 years ago now, we conducted a survey of everyone in Orient , whoever wanted to participate . There was about 400 . And house size was the number one issue . And Orient I know has said in the past, maybe it could be done to begin with where we are . It ' s been on our minds for a very long time . I have meetings with many of you and also Mike Verity in those meetings . So I know there are June 21, 2022 27 issues around . I have heard that it ' s much less . We do have things for variances and so on and so forth . I hear a lot of problems and not specifics of this . So Zoning rules and so on need to be improved, fees and databases . Should have all the right data on . And so, what I love what Barbara just said about the average size of houses . It ' s a big unfair . When we first looked at this , we were looking at one acre lots . So many of the people here know the size of their acreage . A half, a third or an acre . They are not huge . And most of the houses in this Town currently, some are in the two to three thousand range . ( Inaudible ) you could have 16, 000 square feet . That is 16 times . It ' s huge . I once said Scott . Thank you Jill . Thank you Louisa . And thank you all of you who are here today for engaging in this . And I was really glad to hear the various supports from the various bodies . And I do hope it could be done . And I am sure if it turns out to be a June 21, 2022 28 disaster, it will be undone . Thank you very much . MR . SCOTT EDGETT : Hi . How are you guys doing . My name is Scott Edgett . In addition to the North Fork Woodworks , a local construction company here on the North Fork, I am also a local . Graduate from a local Mattituck High school and I live on the North Fork and raise my children on the North Fork . And I just wanted to express a couple of concerns about the new jurisdiction here and some of the code change . In the eyes of someone who supports their family on the North Fork, like to stay here on the North Fork . In addition to that, some of the concerns about even upcoming projects or projects that are done . First , I am curious if the Town or the Civics has done any sort of due diligence on the local economy or the overall impact on what the impact of this new jurisdiction would be? I think it ' s really important to note that -- we ' re losing a lot of locals due to the June 21, 2022 29 cost of houses . And who were left with a really ( inaudible ) service industry . That are kind of feeding with the North Fork has become in a lot of ways . It has become very touristy . I think that this Town of Southold has done a phenomenal job on preserving farmland . Again, encouraging agricultural land and maintaining this salty farm village for lack of a better in those aspects . I do agree that some of our houses are becoming to -- become slightly un-tasteful . A little oversize for some areas . And I do believe code change could be very good for the Town . I would suggest as Pat Moore mentioned and I think some of my other colleagues feel , that it would probably be best to include some of us , some architects , expediters and in some of civic conversations before something like this goes to vote . Just so we can bring in some of our ( inaudible ) as personal craftsman ' s and architects . You know, to the Town locally . I think it would June 21, 2022 30 be really important that we have a say as well . And I am not trying to be selfish and greedy and say just want to build what we ' re referring to as mic-mansions . But we want to make sure that it ' s feasible to be able to build on the properties that we have . I think comparing the North Fork to the South Fork in some ways is accurate but in many it ' s not . We don ' t have a lot of the lot sizes as the South Fork does . We don ' t have the acreage or the size in general as the South Fork . The South Fork is generally the ( inaudible ) and our properties in our Village ' s and Town ' s are quite smaller, which could really create a road block . As Pat Moore mentioned earlier as well , it ' s already 5 , 6 , 7 months to go for a variance . And I think that will be a place that will have to consider or -- at least consider or adjust before we flood them with even more work . So I am just curious if the Civics and the Town has done those types of studies to see June 21, 2022 31 what those impacts will be . Again, local economy . The locals who are left here . Impacts on . The road blocks that we have in the Town here . Some that are ( inaudible ) it seems like a tough time to try and do that . Another thing I would like to attempt to consider is , you know, once the vote or an answer on -- once this vote is either a Yay or a Nay, what kind of timeline are we looking at? There are a tremendous amount of people who have invested a tremendous amount of money on properties in the recent two years . So we have had a large influx in over a decade now . You know, once a code like this is implemented, what kind of timeline does it take for code change itself to be implemented . There are several homeowners that I know, several people that I know, architects working on amazing projects right now where this drastically affects how they ' re designing and structuring . And a lot, lot of money that has been invested . June 21, 2022 32 And big investments on property . Assuming they ' re following the current code . So just curious to see what kind of timeline this would be and I would hope to give people -- at least let people finish the due diligence they have . Before it becomes , before you know, it becomes written in stone . Let ' s see , I have a couple of notes here . Again, you know, just so I don ' t come across as a greedy builder who wants to build as much square footage as I can, I do agree that the Town can use some sky plane zoning and other things , but to change the overall language on the heights , as Pat Moore said, we do have a lot of coastal areas . We are building houses in my experience that are quite a bit . That are coastal . We are having to start a first floor elevation . So changing that overall height by 5 or 6 feet which is basically what the code is , can be detrimental to the properties that a lot of people have invested to begin with . June 21, 2022 33 As you all know, real estate is extremely expensive right now . So I would just like to again, appreciate the Town . Appreciate where it comes from. Obviously there is a lot of residents from East Marion and Orient here . And going back to Pat Moore, what we call a mic-mansion today is pretty obvious what the wealthy built on East Marion and Orient and Greenport, on very, very little postage stamp lots , which we would never let you build that today or conforming and you would have to go to Zoning today . So I am all for change . I just think some of the verbiage in this is detrimental . And I am not sure we completely understand the overall impact to what we ' re potentially considering at this moment . That ' s all I got . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else would like to address the Town Board? MR . ROBERT HARPER : Good evening members of the Town Board . As most of you know there, I served 8 years on the June 21, 2022 34 Historic Preservation Commission as a commissioner . And my job there was to make sure that any changes to the homes would be done in accordance to the community character . And I think I know historic homes in the Town of Southold . If you go back to the 1600 ' s , we ' re talking about houses that were maybe 800 square feet because that was what was practical then . I am trying to think, since Ms . Moore ' s comment, of any large comment that was built between the 1600 ' s and very recently . I live on New Suffolk Avenue . And there are three examples on New Suffolk Avenue that are inappropriate for what Southold Town is . They don ' t fit into the character . I think New Suffolk Avenue is one of the most beautiful scenic roots on the North Fork . There are three of them . One of them was built several years ago . And it has not been properly maintained and it ' s an eyesore . There are two others that would have been crappy built in the Hampton ' s . And we have a June 21, 2022 35 responsibility as homeowners and property owners , if you want to build something like that, there are places where that is appropriate . If you want to build a 3 , 000 square foot home , you don ' t build it in Orient Village or the historic corridor in East Marion . If you want a house like that, Hampton ' s , I am sure would welcome you . This is -- and the people that can afford houses like this , come into that -- would be detrimental to economic people . If you ' re building 16 , 000 square foot home , you don ' t have to worry about economics . All of you here have a chance to stop something before it ' s started . It ' s not like the young woman in the front row mentioned, it ' s going to come . It ' s come . It ' s in our yard and it ' s not appropriate for who we are or our his -- as my wife mentioned, no mic-mansion in colonial times . There weren ' t any in the 1920 ' s . There weren ' t any in the 1980 ' s . This is a very, very recent thing on the North Fork . You have a June 21, 2022 36 responsibility to the community . You hold the future in our hands . And you owe something to the future . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Can I just ask people to not refer to specific people who have commented . They certainly have their opportunity to speak . I just don ' t want them referring back to someone who has already spoke . MS . BARBARA BEST : Good evening . My name is Barbara Best . And I represent Cutchogue Civics at the North Fork ' s every week . A lot of people in Cutchogue , like me , were really, really devastated about a lot of the recent homes . Especially around the shoreline . And we all know the reason That is why it ' s very, very important to have the -- to see the sun . The dominant force around you . Homes with glass and everything . When you walk down the beach on -- I think a lot of us are very surprised or would be surprised to know, given this new code, what happened ( inaudible ) the very, very large homes . June 21, 2022 37 This still provides for really, really big homes . So I just wanted to thank the Town Board for doing all the work on this and we really appreciate, you know, this first step is saving what is left for the soul of our community . MS . MARGARET STEINBUGLER : Thank you . I am Margaret Steinbugler . Thank you Supervisor Russell and the Town Board for giving us the opportunity to speak . I want to address a couple of concerns that have been raised by folks who maybe don ' t understand the code change . I think as property owners or homeowners , and I want to relay those concerns . There has been concern expressed that this change would "make most existing homes non-conforming . " Analysis performed by one of our North Fork Civic Associates indicates that that is not true . It doesn ' t seem like it ' s an accurate concern . There has also been ways that the codes will have negatively impact the future value of homes . Particularly waterfront homes . June 21, 2022 38 I would argue that if you have a non-conforming waterfront home and this code is changed, your home is probably going to increase in value . It has become a scarce commodity . Sparse . A similar home could -- cannot be similar . That tells us when a commodity is scarce , the value goes up . Increases . I will also point out that this code is less restrictive than similar codes in Southampton and East Hampton . Those areas have not suffered loss of property value or home value . I am trying to bring some rationality to the concerns . I sympathize with people , but I looked at it carefully and thought about it through an economic lens and determined that ' s not really something to be concerned about . Thank you very much . MR . LUTHERINE KING : Hi . My name is Lutherine King . And I live in Mattituck . And I have to say that New Suffolk Avenue -- we have a variety of lovely homes on Depot Drive that are on June 21, 2022 39 the water . A few of them are quite large . What drew me to Mattituck and the North Fork is that I grew up in Astoria, Queens . It was just apartment buildings after apartment buildings . I was fortunate to be in a family that -- I was also fortunate to have some family relatives who had a farm and one of the first farmers to start raising ( inaudible ) . We ' re going back a bit . Years ago . When I went there, I just totally enjoyed the open space . Let ' s have watermelon . Okay . Let ' s go out and pick one . They just had all these things -- we just -- low placed style of life and I just enjoyed the space . I first moved to Jamesport . We bought a house with friends . And fortunately, it was right opposite to a boat ramp . We were on a corner . So we had this expansive view of the boats coming in and out of boatyard there . We could see -- we could see the South Fork . We could walk to the Town beach and things like that fed my heart about being out June 21, 2022 40 here . So 23 years ago, we bought a house in Mattituck . We have seen a lot of neighbors come and go . The street for the most part is branches and maybe a few two-story homes . Now we drive around, as that gentleman talked about on New Suffolk Avenue , we see some major changes . And I think along with the changes are the fact that we ' re clear cutting so many trees . There is just so much that is just being raised before a house goes up . It wasn ' t like that before . Trees do a lot of good . That ' s an issue . I don ' t know how that fits into anything . My grandson has been coming out here for years . And he loves when we drive around in the car . He just enjoys the horse farms . He enjoys the corn fields . Enjoys seeing the variety of things that we have here . I have been going on the North Fork tours and enjoy learning about what the farmers go through . Just the things going on in our neighborhood . I think we also have to consider the impact of June 21, 2022 41 the views . I mean, we want to save our views . We want to save what is left . What hit me very hard this weekend was , and my grandson and I are heading down New Suffolk Avenue and he said, "wow, did the Town build a building to clean the water or something? " I think you know what I mean . It was the house with all the glass . All the metal . So out of character with 990 of the properties here . He really thought by the looks of it . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Tell him it ' s the Town ' s Justice Court . MS . MARGARET STEINBUGLER : Just saying, there are these little things that hit us . It does hit home when he picked up when he said " I don ' t see this view anymore . " Anyway, I appreciate any ( inaudible ) you can put some limits . I think most people would agree . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you very much . I am going to ask anybody else who would like to address the Town Board on this particular Local June 21, 2022 42 Law? MR . NICK KRUPSKI : Good evening, Board . Nick Krupski , Cutchogue . I believe you ' re in a receipt of letters from the Board of Trustees . Have you all read the letter? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Yes . MR . NICK KRUPSKI : So I will be very brief then . Month after month, we get applicants . Mostly expeditors and attorneys that apply to us for monstrous houses that is not within our code to do anything with . But mitigate the environmental factors as best we can . This proposed change will help us immensely with that . I will certainly be able to better sleep at night with the work that we ' re doing . It ' s extremely necessary . Every month it ' s someone new saying "my dream house . I am going to live here forever . " And the build a monstrous house . And then it ' s listed on Zillow 2-3 months later for $3 . 5 million dollars . This is something that we have not had the power to deal June 21, 2022 43 with . Appreciate your efforts in doing something . So thank you . MR . TOM MCCARTHY : Good evening, Tom McCarthy . I am speaking first of all as a resident . I took a look at the code . I said I have to jump up and down and say I am totally against this . Clearly, it ' s going out as a resident, I think the limits are appropriate . And I ' m taking a look at it . I commend the Civics who have put together graphs and charts . All of the infographics , I think they spend a lot of time putting that together . And I think that ' s looking for some solutions . I ' ve had applications as a real estate broker, developer through most every agency within the Town . I know there ' s difficulties . I just want to see if there ' s any sort of feedback from the Zoning Board for those situations where we may have any particular community that is non-conforming lot , that has two large houses on either side of it in the middle is a smaller June 21, 2022 44 house, is that something that ' s going to be ( inaudible ) ? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I agree . It might be the small home that is out of character if the community has larger homes . The code provides for you to go and get the average of the homes in the area and go before the ZBA. MR . TOM MCCARTHY : Would that be for setback or -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : House size . The one thing I will say because there was confusion -- talk about the need to get blueprints for the interior home because they don ' t use livable floor area with usable floor area ( inaudible ) and hopefully get the overall house size . From an exterior perspective . MR . TOM MCCARTHY : Also one of the other things that was put together in the maximum floor area is buildable . I think there is maximum buildable and there is what is practical . And I am not certain if the Building Department or June 21, 2022 45 anyone has chimed in about the 2 1/2 story ' s . I see there is lot coverage based on certain percentage . You can have 2 1 /2 story ' s . I don ' t see that as very practical in many of the homes today to have that third level of a story when we are looking at a chart and saying this is what the square footage is possible . Because I think the building code and the fire code kind of holds that back a little bit . So I don ' t know if there has been an analysis of this or an opinion from the Building Department about that half a story that shows up in the research? I don ' t know how real that is to happen in most of the houses , that extra half a story . So I would ask you to consider that in the maximum square footage that is allowed because most folks don ' t want to have another set of stairs going up to a third level , which I will call a phantom story for many houses . I would ask for that to be considered . And I would ask for the Building Department June 21, 2022 46 to chime in and say what ' s necessary in order for that to happen . If they say, hey, maximum gross floor ares is this , how much of that would have to be on this level? Because I think the entire code has issues . There is egress issues . There is real practical issues in accomplishing that gross floor area . You know, in addition to that, I think the Zoning Board of Appeals has a lot on their plate now . And I think they ' re going to have even a further back log . And I think they ' re all doing a great job . And it ' s months and months to have an application heard . I am wondering if after this , is there any sort of an expedited process that would be along there? Because it could be 4 to 6 months on the line before you even get heard on the Zoning Board . So I do build in Town . I do sell real estate . Foremost, I am a resident and I live here . Some control is warranted . And I would ask that you keep the record open for written comment post this evening, June 21, 2022 47 as well as , I would ask if anyone has done an inventory of parcels to see how many may be affected in the under 10 , 000 square feet and how many have been affected in the 10 to 20 , 000? Has any of the math been done to see how many of these parcels -- how many people would be affected? The vast majority of the Town, we have all legal structures but most are nonconforming . Take a breather and take a look at how many of these parcels are going to be affected by those lot sizes because of nonconformity? I agree with the direction that you ' re going and just take a little bit harder look perhaps with a couple of those points and see how we can avoid some unintended consequences . So thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . Who else would like to address the -- George? MR . GEORGE MAUL : My name is George Maul . I am part of the Civics Association and I am a member of the June 21, 2022 48 Suffolk Civic Association . I came here 30 years ago as a builder . I came to Southold because it was the easiest place to build on Long Island . I have built shopping centers for Damianos and Port Jefferson and Manhasset, Medford . I built a bunch of houses in Huntington, Mac Arthur Airport , Patchogue and Nassau County . I retired from building when I was 45 . I am building one house now in New Suffolk . A postage lot . I was allowed to build a 30x30 footprint . I chose to build 1370 square feet instead if 1800 , which I would have been allowed to have . As I was getting ready to build, I heard from my surveyor that the Zoning rules had changed and I would now be able to have a larger footprint . And I could now build a 2400 square foot house instead of the 1800 . Regulations became easier for the size of my house . I chose to stay with the 170 square foot house . I think that beauty within the Town of Southold is more important than money and I think that a lot of people June 21, 2022 49 are trying to make most money they can . And I think that is bad news for the Town of Southold . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else would like to address the Town Board? MR . ALBERT KRUPSKI : Good evening . Albert Krupski in Cutchogue . I would like to thank the Town Board for taking this up and for addressing it . If this were easier, it would have been done a long time ago . And I know I have sat with Supervisor Russell over 10 years . Louisa you were there . We trucked through this and didn ' t quite get there . I appreciate everyone ' s efforts with this endeavor . This is a very important issue . And everyone has spoken about it at length . And I also have a letter here that I would like to give to the Clerk from Gwen Schroeder of Cutchogue . I will only read one line . "This legislation is long past due . " SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . Leslie? June 21, 2022 50 MS . LESLIE WEISMAN : Leslie Weisman, Chair of the Zoning Board . And I just want to inform the public at large that the Zoning Board participated in the Code Committee on reviewing and vetting and refining this legislation . I would echo with Mr . Krupski said . We are burdened now wit houses being proposed on lots that begin with a blank slate . They have every opportunity to do what the code requires them to do . And yet they come in with 3 and 4 and 5 variance request . The reason we are so delayed is because there are so many buildings under construction here . And on behalf of the Zoning Board, I would like to say that he entire Board supports this initiative, supports the Town Board for bringing it forward . Al Krupski is absolutely right . This has been a long, long process and nothing is perfect . No code is ever written in a perfect way . But unless we understand it , the context of what we ' re trying to do to preserve our community, nothing will change . And June 21, 2022 51 we must manage responsibly . We have a responsibility to balance out the reasonableness of property owners . We all own property . We want to protect it . We also have a responsibility on what we do on our property does no adversely affect water quality and not adversely affect our neighbors . So I urge you to pass this legislation . I urge you to help all of the Boards in this town to do their job by having the tools in the toolbox to do so . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else would like to address the Town Board on this particular matter? Meryl ? MS . MERYL KRAMER : My name is Meryl Kramer . I am an architect . I live in the Town of Southold . And I am finding myself very conflicted here because I am in alignment with the mission of the Board to change the code to downsize . Because as an architect, it ' s been critical seeing all the work that has been going on in the Town of Southold . June 21, 2022 52 And I am upset by the size of the structures that are being built . So I commend the Board for doing all of this work, along with ( inaudible ) because I know how much work it takes and how much effort went into this . My question is , and this is very personal but I think it also applies to other projects and other professionals that are working in the Town of Southold . I looked at the code relative to what projects I am working on right now . Personally, I pride myself on adhering to the code and designing meticulously . Not only just to get away with the absolute maximum work within the code . But as other people have mentioned, not going to the maximum. And I do have a project right now that sits on a acre lot and we ' re allowed to do 20 lot coverage for the house and the house is only about 150 lot coverage . It ' s a four bedroom house with a screened porch . No den . Or you can say a three bedroom house with a home office . Total four bedroom. And June 21, 2022 53 it ' s a small lot . And it doesn ' t comply . And we ' re at the stage now where we ' re waiting for the Health Department and we finished the drawings down to ridiculous details for the doors and the wood and tile and everything . And we ' re ready to submit for building permit and we can ' t . The house meets code now . It ' s not a big house in my opinion . But it is big according to this code . So what happens to this property and others when you have already submitted to health, DEC or -- gotten approval from ZBA ' s and -- you know, what is the timeline for putting this code into effect? And second thing is -- and I am using this as an example because I am supportive of the code changes . But I do understand that there is also going to be projects that aren ' t giant but fit into a mid range, that are going to be affected . So I had to express those concerns . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank June 21, 2022 54 you . Who else would like to address the Town Board? MR . LUTHERINE KING : Can I just add one thing? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Sure . MR . LUTHERINE KING : I would like to thank the Peconic Land Trust . I am talking about New Suffolk Avenue . Numerous people got together and purchased a parcel for this . But we accomplished something . Nothing is going to get built right there . There is going to be some houses on the rear of that property . But Peconic Land Trust really does try to do good things and be supported . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . MR . LUTHERINE KING : Also when I first came to Mattituck, Mary started the Mattituck Laurel Civic Association . Kudos and all that has been accomplished . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Okay . I appreciate that . What we ' re going to do June 21, 2022 55 is focus on the topic of the Public Hearing and then we will get to the public component right after that . Anybody else like to comment on this particular Local Law? JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : I make a motion that we close the Public Hearing and leave it open for two weeks for written comment . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I will second that . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in favor? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye . COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye . JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye . I am just going to make a comment . I think people need to understand that first this isn ' t a product of the Civics Association . They presented something to us . It went through some substantial revision and maybe ( inaudible ) because June 21, 2022 56 we had loosened it quite a bit . People need to understand that it ' s far looser than what it was described . Most of the houses in this Town would be affected . All to show you have permissive this law is . Alan Builders issued a letter supporting it . That is something that is important to stress . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * CUTCHOGUE WOODS COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : RESOLUTION 2022-417 . WHEREAS , the Town Board of the Town of Southold has received the application of Housing Initiatives LLC and Georgica Green Ventures LLC, to rezone the 5 . 66 acre parcel located on the south side of Middle Road (County Road 48 ) in Cutchogue known as SCTM #1000- 101 . -02-7 . 0 from Agricultural Conservation (AC) to Affordable Housing District (AHD) ; and WHEREAS , the Local Law is entitled "A Local Law to amend the Zoning Map of the Town of Southold by Changing the Zoning Designation of a June 21, 2022 57 5 . 66 acre parcel known as SCTM #1000- 101 . -02-7 , from Agricultural Conservation (AC) to Affordable Housing District (AHD) " . NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, I am going to read a summary Local Law in which a Public Hearing is being held this evening proposes to change zoning of the 5 . 66 acre parcel located on the south side of Middle Road ( County Road 48 ) in Cutchogue . The purpose of this Local Law is to rezone the parcel from Agricultural Conservation (AC) to Affordable Housing District (AHD) . This will be accomplished after obtaining reports and recommendations including SEQRA, LWRP recommendations from the Southold Planning Department and Suffolk County Planning . The full text of the proposed Local Law is available for review in the Town Clerk ' s Office and the Town ' s website . And in this folder here, I have comments we have received from the public . Both in support and opposition to this proposal . I have a June 21, 2022 58 memo that we received from the Southold Town Planning Board expressing opposition to this proposal . I have the VHB challenging some of the Planning Board ' s comments and analysis . I have a letter from the Suffolk County Planning Department declaring this a local determination . I have an affidavit that the notice for this Public Hearing was published in the Suffolk Times . I have the legal notice that was published on the bulletin board and affidavit that it was posted . And then I have the notice to adjacent land owners that was sent . Along with the certified return receipts for all of these . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Okay . I am going to ask that anybody who would like to address the Town Board for this particular -- MR . DAVID GILMARTIN : Good evening . My name is David Gilmartin . I am counsel to GGV and Housing Initiatives . As Councilman Doroski read the notice, we are here for change of zone for the June 21, 2022 59 property 269 Middle Road . Tonight we have a presentation prepared for you . First we will hear from Dave Gallo who is GGV Ventures . He will talk about his experience in developing Affordable Housing . Especially on the east end of Long Island . We have Lou Bekofsky, David Wortman of VHB who prepared the memo that responded to your Planning ' s memo . And finally, we ' ll have a Rona Smith conclude . Before we get to Dave, for 10 years , I ' ve seen the buildings built from the initial application to the Town, to the ZBA, the Planning Board To the Town Board . I have seen them through conclusion . They are life-changing developments in the communities where they have been developed . I live in one Community Tuckahoe . Develop . I know personally 5 or 7 people that live there . They are life-changing for those people . I am closely connected to the Speonk property . My children go to a school close to it . So I know the people in June 21, 2022 60 that community . It ' s life-changing . We are -- and I am fortunate to be representing GGV and other ventures . One thing that I can tell you about them, is that they over deliver on every single promise that they make . Everything is done as promised or better . You raised an issue , it ' s resolved quickly . I have also been family friend of Rona Smith for more than 30 years . This combination of Rona and Dave will deliver, if permitted, under this zone change project that the Southold will be proud of . We have prepared a short presentation, which you will hear from some of your neighbors that we have spoken to in the community . With your Indulgence, we would like to show that . And after that, Dave Gallo will address the issues that I raised . Thank you . (Whereupon, a Video Presentation was played at this time . ) MR . DAVE GALLO : My name is Dave Gallo . I am president of Georgica Green June 21, 2022 61 Ventures . And I want to thank Georgica Green Ventures . I want to thank the Supervisor and the Town Board for allowing us to present this project today . So what I am going to do is tell you all a little bit about Georgica Green Ventures and then walk you through what is important to us . And the founding principle . Some of our experience and what we have learned and then touch upon the project . Initially as Dave has said, bring the engineers up from VHB, some of the points that were addressed in the Planning Board memo and then Rona will conclude the presentation . The first thing is , Georgica was founded, right , on the principle that Affordable Housing is be in all communities . And not just that it serves the residents that live there , but it serves their community . We stand by all of our projects . And we work really, really hard on the, you know, these ingredients that I have listed up here . Sort of make us , us . I don ' t June 21, 2022 62 want you guys thinking like we are any other developer, we are not going to ( inaudible ) to understanding what these things are . What they mean to the community . You know, we put our pride and we know that the community here trust in us , and we want to deliver quality workforce housing . We have been honored by Cornell Cooperative Extension in Suffolk . New York State Affordable Housing Long Island . This is our business , right . I want to make that very clear, right . We ' re not retail developers touching on affordable projects . We don ' t build storage facilities . This is what we do day in and day out . So here is a snapshot of some of the things that I want to talk about . A little bit about the work that we have done on the east end and Suffolk County . The way that we incorporate the design and some of quality that we have seen our buildings . You know, meaningful employment opportunities . I am going to go sideways here for a June 21, 2022 63 second . As a company that is dedicated to delivering the same for everyone, we also seek to include a really big group of service providers in our development . Minority owned businesses . Women owned businesses . Include in the development and the construction of the project . Disabled veterans . Big portions of what we do, those are all included in the project . It ' s not named Georgica Green for a reason . We build the most sustainable communities in Long Island . We ' re going to touch on that . We have taken a different look in terms of construction, modular . And then really bringing it home . Next slide . So as I mentioned, here , development is like anything else . You know, it ' s a people business . And we have the experience of over 1400 apartments that we have done . As far as Dave has mentioned, as far East Amagansett . We ' re working on Coney Island developing the first Domestic Violence Survivor Building . Homeless Veteran Building in Coney Island . We ' re June 21, 2022 64 also building houses for seniors in Westchester . You know, the first Affordable Workforce Housing in East Hampton . Something we ' re really proud of . One of the things that I really want to convey is , we ' re always invited back . We do a development and the Town says come back and do another, right . Because we work really, really hard on what the issues are and ( inaudible ) . When Dave said -- you know, it made me feel so good when he said, over deliver . Like, we work really hard . The entire team. Allison Yoos is here from Georgica and the rest of the team that is working on it . Next slide . So like why does a successful track record on the east end matter? First of all , I don ' t think anybody here in this room or in the dais of our first shot doing it . This is not . As I mentioned, 1400 apartments . But Suffolk County, let alone the east end is different . What we have done on the South Fork isn ' t what we ' re planning here . It ' s June 21, 2022 65 actually very different . On a couple of slides I am going to show you how, but there are some similarities . What is meaningful to the east end? Just as important as delivering workforce housing, but the environment . That was important to Sandy Hollow and the project in Amagansett . We have built an amazing team on the environment, on the sustainability side . Community character, any time we develop something, there has to look like it ' s always been there . That is -- in other communities that we have developed, that is not an important point . But when we develop on the east end of Long Island or Suffolk, it has to be with the community character that has been there . Nobody wants it to change . We have had so much design and planning sessions with Planning Board members , with our architect who is here today . Until we get it right , we ' re not going to build it or continue to move forward on it . Next slide . So we don ' t build crap . June 21, 2022 66 Right . I hope that anyone who wants to come and visit any one of the communities , I would gladly walk them through it . Here ' s the thing, it ' s workforce housing, right . Whether it ' s your daughter, family member . Whether it ' s stainless steel appliances or surface counter tops or back splash for the entire tile , microwaves , this particular building holds 216 units . 77 of the units will be domestic violence survivors and the remaining units are workforce housing . It ' s pretty great that the day that we have the ribbon cutting, Channel 2 is there . And as I am walking, the building after the ribbon cutting, the woman who I was walking with says , "this is awesome . This is beautiful . " I just have this blip here that demonstrates how much it means to us . What we can do in development . It ' s one thing to develop a beautiful exterior, right , but that is what happens . The outside looks great and the inside looks like crap and that June 21, 2022 67 is not us . The inside and the outside are beautiful . If that is what you like . Next slide . This is an important point . Georgica Green develops sustainable housing . And every community that we have built meets the needs of the New York State building code standards . Enterprise Communities are similar and always involved in every single one of our projects . Not only do we have an expert that is hired in that , we have a consultant that will review and model the building for the standards and then post construction monitor every aspect of that building . To see that we are actually meeting the standards that we had hoped to hit . Next slide . So onsite monitoring property management . This kind of brings it home . It ' s great to work with a great design team and engineers . I would argue -- a really important aspect to deliver quality housing and then running it is having a management and having an experienced team. So Georgica Green Ventures June 21, 2022 68 already manages our properties . We have onsite supervision . We have regional managers . I mean, that is just a shot of our cameras at the Riverhead building . We have them everywhere . It ' s not that -- we always want to ensure the property is well kept and we know what ' s going on . And if there is an issue , we can address it . It ' s not that we don ' t have issues . It ' s how we deal with them differently . Our company management takes it seriously So these next two slides bring it home . A really critical aspect to developing on the east end of Long Island . There are fair housing rules and regulations that we need to adhere to and abide by . But when we do -- I am actually going to grab my phone for a second . I had asked Allison earlier today, you know, statistically between Riverhead, Southampton, East Hampton, we ' re at 800 . But why -- I get asked, where did we actually market . And she text me back . June 21, 2022 69 Housing Authority website . Local TV channels . East Hampton Press . School , post office, fire department, town offices . We just -- we have heard the community on how important it is . You know, we didn ' t put this in Newsday . We have touched on each and every one of these . And we expand from it . Right . It ' s not by accident each one of our development is more than an 800 retention rate of the local Town living there . Next slide . So I want to pause on this slide because it compliments the previous slide . I said that 840 of the people from the Town of East Hampton moved in, but where did they actually work? On this particular slide, I am not going to go through all of it . I am going to leave it on here for a minute for everyone to see it . There were 58 local employees . 5 worked in the school district . 6 were the Town of East Hampton employees . Building Department , Highway Department . Parks and Rec Department . Grocery stores . One Stop June 21, 2022 70 Market . Medical , East Hampton Medicine . Some of the best restaurants that I love going to out there . The point , these are the people -- this is the fabric of the community . 840 , this is where they work . It was something that we wanted to do . It worked . It happened in Southampton . It happened here and we will deliver that here to the Town of Southold . Next slide . Enough about GGV . Now a little bit about the actual project . So one of the things -- you know, there has been some comparisons to other projects . We know that Southold doesn ' t want to be Southampton, East Hampton necessarily . But the key difference is , there are some parities that need to be pointed out here . So we have the four projects on the east end . First and foremost , it is the smallest project, 24 units . By design, but it is 24 units . It is the smallest density per acre project that we have done . Some of the key similarities , they are two miles from the Hamlet . That is going to be June 21, 2022 71 talked about more thoroughly . But if you look at each one of them, one mile . Three miles . Sandy Hollow, 2 . 2 . Speonk, that is less than a mile . That is not by accident . If you want workforce housing, you can ' t build it on Park Avenue . Right . Hamlets are really expansive . These other projects ( inaudible ) it ' s not because Rona and I don ' t want to do it . The funding sources and the processes are the same . So these are not outliers . Cutchogue fits right in with the other projects . The site is going to be designed, two parking spots , as per code for each and every unit . And I just think that -- you will hear a little more about that . What does it mean to be building it in Southold? It is the smallest development that we have worked on . The smallest on the east end . It is the smallest per acre in terms of unit size . So here is he actual proposed site plan, which is subjected to change . You know, we have heard a lot from the community . We have June 21, 2022 72 had people reach out to us . And one of the things that was brought out, was please preserve as much as possible . And what we -- what we have looked at doing is retaining 30 of the back portion of the property as open space . As people go through, there is ( inaudible ) that allows for single family homes . With Rona and I doing it, we can keep 400 of this . That is a really big target to make and still get your Affordable Housing . The other thing one, you know, we really liked the way it looked as we drove Middle Road . Well , we had an original plan, but we changed it . We had a 60% buffer and I believe -- and correct me if I am wrong, the entire length of the property is about 360 feet . And that particular driveway is 33 feet . Almost all of it is going to remain unchanged . Virtually everyone that drives by that road today is not not going to change that drastically . It ' s going to be a driveway . By the way, if you go by the property, you June 21, 2022 73 don ' t put signs up . Doesn ' t need to be . The buildings are proposed there is 7 , 000 square feet . There will be a community room there . It meets every other zoning requirement . Every zoning requirement in the Affordable Housing District . I am going to conclude here . I would like Lou from VHB to come up and speak more about the environmental side of things . We are here to answer any and all questions . And anyone afterwards , would like to visit any of our proposals -- projects , the Town Board or anyone in the audience, just please reach out to me and let me know . I got one more slide . Last slide . We are serious about the project and we have received you know funding from our equity and our -- from our construction lender . So we are very serious about it . And I hope we have a shot to move it forward . I thank everyone again for their time this evening . Thank you . All right , Lou . MR . LOU BEKOFSKY : Good evening . My June 21, 2022 74 name is Lou Bekofsky . I am the Director of Environmental Planning and Engineering with offices at 100 Motor Parkway, Hauppauge . As Dave mentioned, we have analyzed and reviewed the comments that were issued by the Planning Board to the Town on April 12 , 2022 regarding the proposed project . Following our review and analysis , we prepared a technical memo with ou responses to the Planning Board ' s comments on June 16 , 2022 . And it ' s my understanding that you also received a copy of it . Tonight, I would like to walk through some of the relevant issues raised by the Planning Board . I am joined tonight by David Wortman, Senior Environmental Manager and David will provide additional testimony on this . The first topic that I would like to discuss is a project consistency with the Town of Southold . The Planning Board ' s comment letter that they cannot suppose the proposed project -- change of zone because it ' s June 21, 2022 75 not fully supported by the Comprehensive Plan . This conclusion appears to be made on a point by point review with the project consistency with ( inaudible ) Affordable Housing . And these necessary requirements be satisfied in order to create Affordable Housing in any manner . Based on our analysis , we disagree with this conclusion for the following reasons . First as you know, the term Affordable Housing is used more than 40 times throughout the plan . And the plan describes the lack of Affordable Housing . The proposed project would help to address this by adding 24 units of quality Affordable Housing . Second, we respectfully submit that the ( inaudible ) that was used by the Planning Board does not fully assess the overarching goal of the Comprehensive Plan to increase Affordable Housing throughout the Town in order to address this crisis . The Planning Board has misinterpreted requirements of Chapter ( inaudible ) as June 21, 2022 76 specific requirements of more than 5 projects . That each one of those must be met in order for a property to be consistent with the plan and supported by the Planning Board . Misinterpretation appears to mischaracterize the objectives of Chapter 8 of the plan, which per the first page of the Chapter, it ' s encouraged Affordable Housing for the entire sector and in the entire Town of Southold . Rather than for specific individuals . So we respectfully submit that to address the Affordable Housing crisis in the Town the products that include Affordable Housing should be evaluated on their own merits . And a Town Board determination be made as to whether the product achieves the overall objective of the Comprehensive Plan and to increase Affordable Housing options throughout the Town . The second topic I would like to address is the location . You saw Dave mention that some of the successful projects here are between one and two, three miles away from the June 21, 2022 77 Hamlet . So in our April comment letter, the Planning Board concluded that the project is not reasonably proximate to the Cutchogue Hamlet . And that the deficiency of pedestrian infrastructure and public transportation in the area will result in a dependence on personal vehicles by ( inaudible ) of the project . Again, based on our analysis , it appears that the Comprehensive Plan does not really support that conclusion . Addressing the Affordable Housing prices -- MR . DAVE GALLO : Hold on a second . I just want to point out here where we are . This is our proposed site . This land -- ( inaudible ) website . We would be looking for this blank space currently listed as vacant to orange , density residential . It ' s not ( inaudible ) . This isn ' t necessarily you know, change for the local community . MR . LOU BEKOFSKY : Great point, Dave . I am going to expand on that a June 21, 2022 78 little bit . You can lead this slide up for a little bit . Again, to address the Affordable Housing crisis within the Town, it ' s really ( inaudible ) as Dave mentioned is a lofty goal . It ' s something that certainly from a Planning perspective makes a lot of sense . There is also a lot of constraints . So don ' t only look at that . Also look at these other areas . Because the Comprehensive Plan talks about it needs to have Affordable Housing Town wide . So instead, this multi-facet approach has been encouraging Affordable Housing in the Hamlet centers and commercial areas and change of zone designations for Affordable Housing District in appropriate areas as called for by -- called for in Chapter 8 of the Comprehensive Plan . Also be employed by the Town . Currently there are 8 acres of zoning within the Hamlet of Cutchogue , which makes this site great access . It ' s large enough to support all of the infrastructure . While still June 21, 2022 79 maintaining, as Dave mentioned, almost 400 of the site as natural wooded buffer area . It ' s a great opportunity for both the Town to preserve and also address this housing crisis . So throughout the Comp Plan, the need for Affordable Housing Town wide is documented and recognized by the Town . In fact, in a recent meeting with the Suffolk County Planning Commission, a representative of the Town specifically stated when asked that it is not the intent of the Town to limit Affordable Housing . Only the Hamlet center and ( inaudible ) zones . The same is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan as should be considered by the Board . The proposed project is compatible with the zone and the surrounding area . As you can see while most of the Hamlet is established, this particular site and the surrounding area includes several properties developed as medium density residential , as you see in Orange . Which is similar to the West Hampton . As you drive June 21, 2022 80 further along, you notice a mix of uses including institutional , commercial , medium density . Both the County and the Town -- maybe the next slide . MS . RONA SMITH : ( Inaudible . Not near a microphone . ) MR . LOU BEKOFSKY : I would point out and Rona is correct . Both classified, the subject property is vacant . Consistent with its historic use . And I think also if you go to the next slide, please . So our vacant parcels are ( inaudible ) by the Town or the Preservation either, which makes it an excellent location for residential use . Address the Affordable Housing crisis . How impacting other surrounding parcels that are either ( inaudible ) . Go to the next slide . So quickly, just regarding public transportation . The 5- 92 serves the area but does not immediately serve the subject property . Suffolk County is undergoing a ( inaudible ) initiative and is evaluating the future of public transit throughout June 21, 2022 81 the Town . Significant changes planned on current transportation . However, based on existing ridership, there are minimal changes planned for public transportation on the east end . And while we agree with the Planning Board that there is a lack of public transportation immediately serving the subject property, that is not an issue that meets this parcel . It ' s representative of the entire east end and how people move around on the east end . There is little demand for public transit currently . And there is no significant increase in the demand on the east end suggestive by the County on their recent ( inaudible ) . Nevertheless , in talking to Dave and Georgica Green Ventures , of course, if there is a public transit alternative available to serve the site, they would be open to considering that . Regarding pedestrian and bike infrastructure . The Planning Board ' s comments state that the transportation by bicycle is possible June 21, 2022 82 for the County Road 48 . It ' s not marked well for pedestrian use and bike area . In 2020 , Suffolk County completed a countywide hike/bike master plan . It proposed a new buffer bike lane along Middle Road, at the subject property, as well as other areas . So this would improve potentially, pedestrian infrastructure and ultimately transportational issues . So for all of these reasons , we believe that this site is appropriate for the proposed use as Affordable Housing . While Hamlet centers are limited by various factors such as aequator sewer systems or infrastructure, the subject property is large in size and has enough acres to provide adequate parking and sewage disposal . Located on an established County road with access . It has been well designed to balance the development and preservation and other environmental protection measures . Moreover, it is consistent with the overarching housing goal under the Comprehensive Plan to June 21, 2022 83 increase workforce housing options across the Town . At this time I would like to hand the presentation over to David Wortman . And he will discuss the issue analysis of the remainder of the Planning Board ' s comments . And David and I will of course be available to take questions after the presentation . Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak . MR . DAVID WORTMAN : Thank you Mr . Bekofsky, Mr . Gallo . Good evening, Mr . Supervisor and Members of the Board . As Mr . Bekofsky mentioned, my name is David Wortman . And I am the Senior Environmental Manager for VHB . I was engaged by the applicant to evaluate this change of zone application . Relevant to certain land use matters , and environmental considerations . The letter is what I am here to talk about a little bit tonight . I would like to respectfully discuss a few of the assertions made by the Planning Board ' s comments regarding the environmental June 21, 2022 84 impacts of the proposed project . And specifically those regarding the sites location within the critical environmental area, as well as , ecological impacts . You have heard from Mr . Gallo already about how important the environmental considerations are . There is site selection and design . Even the companies culture, which I think is important to recognize . I will speak a little more technically to those particular topics that I mentioned . And our June 16th Memorandum, which is available to the Board, goes into further detail about these things . So I just like to focus on some of the key elements of that tonight . The Planning Board ' s comment correctly note that the subject property is located in what is called a Critical Environmental Area or a CEA. And specifically it ' s within Southold Groundwater Protection Area of SGPA. Broadly speaking, the designation of a CEA, calls attention to a particular resource in a review process June 21, 2022 85 such as the one that is before the Board today . The Planning Board ' s comments gives the reasons why CEA may be designated . However, it does not distinguish that there are several reasons why a particular CEA may be established . And what I would like to just note of importance here tonight and clarify for the Board is that there is really one key reason why this CEA is established and that is for the protection of groundwater resources . As a special groundwater protection area will suggest . There are various other issues listed by the Planning Board and its comments , such as , wildlife habitat , inherent ecological sensitivity, historic and educational values are important -- you know, especially in regards to other CFA ' s but they do not specifically apply to this particular CEA or to the project that is before you this evening in that matter . I would also like to clarify for the Board that while groundwater protection is a broad June 21, 2022 86 subject, the key considerations related to the protection of groundwater in this SGPA are laid out in detail , Long Island Regional Planning Board now known as the Planning Councils . The plan was published back in 1992 . And I will refer to it as the SGEA plan . First and foremost, it ' s important to note that it doesn ' t automatically restrict development on that CEA. In fact much of the entire slide, it ' s either within or surrounded by CFA ' s and SGPA' s . And if this map were to show the various other CFA ' s that exist, you would see even fewer pockets of land that is not in a CEA across the region . That point is relevant because, you know, while CFA ' s are designated for all sorts of reasons . Construction projects occur in and around CFA ' s . What the SGPA plan describes for this specific CEA and SGPA. The key issues facing groundwater quality here , as you might suspect, are related primarily to agricultural practices . The historic use of June 21, 2022 87 fertilizers and pesticides and so forth . The SGPA plan provides specific recommendations which are directed at municipalities ( inaudible ) . If on those key concerns that I just mentioned, many of the recommendations for the Southold SGPA are agricultural land uses and practices . As the subject property, as you have already heard, is not being used for agriculture and has no agricultural uses proposed . I submit that these recommendations are not relative to the property . There are one or two other recommendations offered within the SGPA Plan for the Southold SGPA which has to do with the transfer of development rights and the preservation of open space . Relevant to that, the analysis we submitted in our memorandum details the programs that have been implemented in the approximately 30 years that have been passed since the SGPA Plan was developed in the Town of Southold . The subject property who are eligible for June 21, 2022 88 preservation as part of the Town ' s Community Preservation Fund, CPF Program, which is part of the broader Peconic Bay Region Program. That program has protected over 10 , 000 acres . The map has listed areas that are eligible for preservation of the CPF, and has been updated multiple times . Most recently in 2016 . The subject property also has not been proposed for or acquired for open space preservation purposes as part of any other program, including the robust Suffolk County Open Space Acquisition Program, which has been operated for decades . That program has maintained a master list of open space properties since 2004 , when it was most recently updated in 2019, as the County describes it, with input from all the townships in the Town of Southold . There are a total of nearly 5, 000 acres of land that identified on the master list, and also include dozens of property within the Town of Southold itself . But it ' s notable that the June 21, 2022 89 subject property does not appear on that list for open space acquisition properties , which are of various priority levels . In fact, that program has subjective scoring system that is utilized to prioritize properties and to determine the relative value for a particular parcel for preservation of open space . This subject property was evaluated and I received a relatively low score of 21 points out of a possible 100 , indicating a low value for preservation as compared to the numerous properties that are included in the master list . The reason I offer all of this is to sort of underscore the point that in the 30 years since the publication of this SGPA plan, the subject property has not been acquired for a proposed acquisition of the preservation of open space . A few other points to offer relevant to groundwater protection . The proposed project will adhere to the latest modern requirements that were noted by the Planning Board June 21, 2022 90 within their comments to minimize of eliminate the impacts of the groundwater . Including the use of an innovative alternative or IA sanitary system . All the water that would be supplied to the site would be by Suffolk County Water Authority . Which means , there would be no pile pumping or use of groundwater at the site itself . A storm water management system to be developed through site plan review or change of zone granted would collect and recharge run-off that is generated by the proposed development, such that storm water would continue to be recharged to the ground at the subject property . And we heard a little bit about , the projects designed is intended to preserve nearly 400 or over 2 . 1 acres of land as woodland, which would also further the preservation goals and recommendations for the SGPA. Aside from the video that members of the community had expressed the importance of how preservation of woodland is and June 21, 2022 91 you also heard from the applicants team, how the managed that in such a way that also provides buffering from surrounding land uses and done in a way that maintains community character, but I am just highlighting that . It ' s also an environmental benefit that should be considered . For those various reasons and as described in our memo, I would respectfully submit to this Board that the proposed project would not result in a significant adverse impact upon the special groundwater protection area or CEA . Lastly, I would just like to offer a few points regarding ecological resources , which are also raised among the Planning Board ' s comments . The comment indicates that it ' s expected, the parcel is used or in the vicinity of, animals and plants listed as endangered or threatened, specifically their northern long eared bat . We consulted the New York State ' s Environmental Conservations environmental resource mapper, as they June 21, 2022 92 call it, which is the resource that maintains records of these things and continually updated . They ' re regularly updated with these species as reported to that system. And that system, accessed earlier this month, indicates that there are no rare threatened or endangered species present at or in the vicinity of the property, including the northern long eared bats . The New York State DEC ' s EAF Mapper was also consulted, which similarly indicates no regarding the presence of such resources at or in the vicinity subject property . So based on a review of the relevant agency records , it does not appear that the Planning Board ' s opinion as to the use of the site , as to endangered species is supported by the available data . Not withstanding this , the applicant is willing to follow the DEC ' s applicable guidance for the protection of the northern long eared bat , if the change of zone is approved, and moreover, the conceptual plan for the June 21, 2022 93 project includes the preservation of nearly 400 of this site as wooded habitat, which would remain in tack, following the development of this much needed Affordable Housing project . Thank you very much for your time this evening . I would be happy to answer any questions following the preservation . And I would like to invite Ms . Rona Smith up to offer her comments . MS . RONA SMITH : So I think that was a really great set of presentations . I am certainly short . Anyway . You know, I spent the last 18 years or so as a member of the Southold Housing Advisory Commission . And as such, it was past -- in a sense in an advisory capacity to the Town Board and the supervisor in matters having to do with Affordable Housing . So I think I have some credibility and I guess I consider that a power . And I -- I -- motivated to go out and buy a piece of land . And I think what it was , I believe if you have power or any power at all , you need June 21, 2022 94 to use that power for positive ends . And so , you know, we want to change the situation with housing . More persons not being able to find any housing to live . And knowing that there are many, many sub-habitable places that people live in, in very old conditions that we all sort of turn a blind eye to . And I have been touched over the few years of people coming to the Housing Advisory Commission, getting evicted from places they thought were their permanent homes and then the investor/landlord decided wanted to sell that property . And people come to you and they want you to help them find a place to live . And there isn ' t a place for them to live . And no matter what their life situation is , they have to move to another town . And it is really a wrenching thing to leave a place you have lived in . You have to help make workforce permanent members of our community . Talking about permanent housing . Talking about housing that respects the tenants that June 21, 2022 95 live there . That is incredibly important . You know, I feel very, very lucky of David Gallo and GGV stepped up to partner with me on this . Because they have the benefit of his team and his advisors and he just have highest caliber of people you can imagine . And as partner, you know, I am the small teeny weeny company . And David has included me in every decision we have made . There is no age limiting -- there is no genderism . We are -- when we make decisions , we collaborate fully and we are full partners in decision making . I really appreciate that . So I have to address that to motivate other people and companies like that . But we are all available to answer any questions you might have . I hope that we have shown you that building Cutchogue Woods on this parcel would be a very positive addition to the Town . People who can stay out here . Move up here . Volunteer for committees . Volunteer for the fire department . And start lives here . And June 21, 2022 96 like the cottages where there are 24 cottages , 8 of them have seen a turnover in the years . And that means that 8 of those people because they were paying -- not more than 300 of their income or their mortgage or their ( inaudible ) , that means that they were able to stay with someone and that means that they were able to move into the place . And so that is what we hope will happen here . This is a process for people to move up and out and stay as members -- members of both communities . Whenever I think about this , the main thing I think about are those tenants . And what it means to them that they don ' t have to worry about where they ' re going to be living next year . So it makes me very proud to be using my power in this way . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Who else would like to address the Town Board on this particular hearing? MS . GAIL WICKHAN : Good evening . My name is Gail Wickham. I am from Cutchogue . And thank you for having me June 21, 2022 97 speak to this . I would like to say that the initial video was all about the need for Affordable Housing and it was very appealing and -- and compelling . But this hearing is not about the need for Affordable Housing in this Town . That is self evident . It is also not about the ability of Rona or her team to put a project together . What it is -- we all know that it ' s time for the Town to move forward as fast and as much as they can on Affordable Housing . Because for various reasons until now, it has been too slow . And I am painfully aware of the disrepair . So many people find their priced out of a house . Employers are one of them that is having trouble . And it ' s not about the fact in this hearing that this is an Affordable Housing project or the rules of who gets in and who doesn ' t . I have to reluctantly oppose this project due to the density of any housing project going in this location . And that is one thing that the applicants have totally glossed June 21, 2022 98 over in their presentation and their expert testimony . For many, many reasons , it just doesn ' t belong in this location . I would ask that the Board include in their record my letter to the Planning Board in April of 2020 . April lst , and the Comprehensive Plan . As you know, some of you know, painfully aware , I have been doing Zoning for 40 years in this Town . And the core concept in Zoning is that the uses must be appropriate to the area in which they are located . Various districts of zoning uses have created with various locations that were worked out over time . More recently, those were redefined or defined by the stakeholders meetings , the Comprehensive Plan discussions and adoption . Giving priority in this case of density to the halo zones , considerations of traffic, water . All pointing in the clear directions of the code . That high density goes in specific areas of the Town . This project completely and June 21, 2022 99 totally ignores those basic concepts . And that is what is troubling . It doesn ' t adjoin any residential development . The smattering of a few homes in that area is -- those are homes for the most part that have been there for many, many years . And it is not a dense residential area . I would like to refer to Section 280-26 of the Affordable Housing District , which the Town very admirably did pass in 2016 , to allow floating areas to be rezoned . And what they specified is that the standards are accepted principles of smart growth planning . Desirable locations for Affordable Housing include land within namely focused areas . Land within walking distance of services , shops , public transportation . None of these factors apply to this property . Land that adjoins existing business . It ' s not here . Land that adjoins residential development, there are no residential homes next to the land . It goes on to say as opposed to, in other June 21, 2022 100 words , not including adjoining farm and open fields . It does say other locations where the project has been shown to meet a demonstrable need . What the applicant is trying to say, the Comprehensive Plan is zoned, because Affordable Housing is needed in this Town, it can go anywhere . That is not correct and just not appropriate for you to set a precedent that means you could put it anywhere . And the reason -- and I am going to get into the reasons why I think this particular location is not good in just a minute . The location of this area in the block, the geographical block between Alvahs Lane and Elijah ' s Lane contains one of the most dense concentrated farmland areas in the Town . And if anybody knows anything about farming knows that farming is not necessarily compatible with residential growth, and residential uses . There is always a lot of tension between them . This area of agricultural density extends from Alvahs Lane all the way June 21, 2022 101 east to beyond west of Elijah ' s Lane . It goes south, all the way to the main road, except for the homes along the main road . And a few along the southerly area around Alvahs Lane and Elijah ' s Lane . And it goes north up to the fringe along the sound . It ' s a very dense area . The reason that incompatibility with residential is concerned, it is that you do have -- well , let me start by saying, the Town has recognized that by the language in their Affordable Housing code, by the right to farm legislation and by the Comprehensive Plan legislation that you have enacted . And the tremendous land preservations programs that you have . If you look at the applicants -- some of their exhibits , they don ' t exactly emphasize that difference . And I would like to hand up a few exhibits . In their Figure 3 . 6 where they show the Cutchogue Land Use map, and I will bring this up to you, this is the middle of the parcel that we ' re talking about . June 21, 2022 102 And they show one of the three segments in the Comprehensive Plan that breaks the Town into zoning districts -- planning areas . Mattituck, Cutchogue and East . And then there is a few more further east . They only show green in here up to -- halfway up to Elijah ' s Lane on the west . This entire block and beyond is farming . And much of it is already preserved or about to be preserved . Including, just about everything around this parcel . If you look at this one -- I tried to make it a little bigger . This is in pink, our piece that we ' re talking about tonight . This is the surrounding area . So I would like to submit that to the record as part of correction to their application . I would like to menti0on specifically as it affects -- as it affects the neighboring property to this parcel , the parcel that our family owns immediately to the west is entirely used for agricultural , including the forest land . We have agricultural uses in June 21, 2022 103 their now . The rest of the field has been continuously farmed for generations . Everything from their west to Elijah ' s Lane is Dave Steele ' s operation . Everything south of this is preserved . That would be if you start on the Alvahs Lane and just south of the railroad tracks , the Tuttle Farm. The Souter Farm, the McCall Farm. The McCall Farm is preserved from the railroad tracks to the main road . Our farm is under contract to be preserved from the railroad tracks to the main road . The farm to the west of that is contracted -- has been preserved . Same dimensions . And then Dave Steele , he has huge tracks that have been preserved . The reason I mention this is , farming particularly in that area, there is nothing there but fields and farming . There is no buildings . There is -- maybe there is a one bar . That ' s it . And what we have found over the years , even the homes -- the few homes that are there now, you have people -- June 21, 2022 104 and I mentioned this in my letter, who just think that it ' s public property -- they walk through it . They take the dogs through it . They ' re on their bikes and vehicles threw it . We have had crops ruined . It ' s very difficult . Dumping . We have hunting there for nuisance . Which is essential to keep the crops safe . That is year round . It ' s a danger for people to go in there . It ' s liability and there is no way to protect it if you have 24 units of housing right there . It is just going to be a concerned that we ' re going to ly awake at night and wondering . The other problem is , you have dangerous situations . You have dust . You have spraying . You have all kinds of stuff going on . You have heavy mechanical equipment . You have, lot of times if you can ' t finish your job, you won ' t leave your equipment out there . You have to take it all home . It ' s going to be a burden for housing in that location . Again, I am not downplaying June 21, 2022 105 the need for Affordable Housing . I am focusing on the location . I would like to address the Comprehensive Plan which this project is completely in variance with . Chapter 1 of the Comprehensive Plan, the photo is of the barn and the woodland next to the property . The property I am speaking . This is the vision for the Town to keep this agriculture intact . So I am going to hand that up . And I am also going to discuss with you -- we said the housing goals of the Comprehensive Plan, which coordinate very much of what is in the 280 code, this project is not compliant . There was some engineering testimony about the water table . We know this is in the special groundwater protection area . What wasn ' t pointed out by the engineers , is that our groundwater ridge on the map he showed is very narrow compared to the bulk of Suffolk County, which is the Pine Barrens . Very broad . Even on the South Fork, their groundwater is much broader . This is a June 21, 2022 106 very, very narrow fragile area . The Suffolk County Water Authority has a well right near this property . What the County decided back in the drinking water days , where they imposed the tax, they have what my dad used to call a water bowl . This is where the heart of the water table is in Southold Town . And this will be put on the website and you can see it . This property is right in the middle . And so they ' re going to be changing their density from 3 homes , which would undoubtedly have to have lowmen systems to 24 homes , with all the associated runoff and sanitary waste . And that is an 8 fold increase in what the County would otherwise allow . So yes , you can say engineering wise , it ' s not going to be a big deal , but it is a big deal . And it ' s a very vast difference . That goes not only to the water but the woodland . If you look at -- typical zoning here, you ' re talking about 3 homes . Yes , they can be big, but the Town Planning Board will be very June 21, 2022 107 careful , because I know . We have been before them many times , in terms of limiting where those buildings can be . What the building envelope is and most particularly ensuring that it ' s an INA system and preserving the trees . The trees here and I will give you a picture of them, there are dozens of trees at this property which are at minimum, 20 inch diameter . And Rona herself acknowledged, that it ' s 100 acre woodland . So I am going to give you the water bubble and the resolution of the County of establishing this as the area that needs to be concerned about . Before I close, I just want to go through some of the points that were made by BVH, I think it was , on their presentation . First of all , Mr . Bekofsky who spoke, I don ' t feel he did anything to dispute the statements in the Planning Board letter, which recommended against this . His argument that lack of transportation is not a factor made no sense to me . He June 21, 2022 108 basically said most roads do not have public transportation, then you can put this project anywhere because it ' s not a factor . That is not what the Town Code says . That is not what the Comprehensive Plan says . And it doesn ' t make sense . People need public transportation . And if he has ever biked along Route 48 , which I have and probably people have here, it ' s not a comfortable thing with traffic going 60- 80 miles an hour . His first point about the number of units . He was trying to make a point that the Comprehensive Plan because it says that Affordable Housing is needed in the Town, which we all agree , means that despite all this specifics that the Town Code and the Comprehensive Plan talk about in terms of location, means you can put it anywhere . That is not what it says . His -- I didn ' t understand his reasoning about his Section VII -- the Comprehensive Plan doesn ' t preclude it . I think that is what he was saying . June 21, 2022 109 Clearly indicates in the Comprehensive Plan where it should be . And the argument of there being no Affordable Housing in Cutchogue, it can be here anywhere in Cutchogue , that makes no sense . I hope you do pass something in Cutchogue , you need it . Not here . David and I am sorry, I don ' t know his last name , he addressed the -- COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Can I just say, the previous comments , we weren ' t allowing people to respond to -- I mean, if you have some statements to make, I would appreciate hearing them, but I don ' t think it ' s fair to everyone to -- for you to come up and dispute what the representatives have presented . We didn ' t allow it for the last hearing MS . GAIL WICKHAN : Isn ' t that what a hearing is ? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : We said not referring to people specifically -- MS . GAIL WICKHAN : I am almost done . June 21, 2022 110 COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Agreed . Yes . MS . GAIL WICKHAN : He mentioned agricultural practices which have been a concern in terms of drinking water . Those have been unfortunately moderated in recent years due to the change of crops and potatoes . There are other crops that are not as harmful . And more importantly I think the application of better products on agricultural crops . The other point that I want to address is the fact that this parcel is not designated or recommended for preservation . That is not because it ' s not an important parcel . It ' s because it ' s under 7 acres and it ' s not big enough . That doesn ' t mean it ' s not appropriate for a single family developing, which is what it is zoned for . So I think that is completely bogus argument . And the fact that 24 homes versus 3 doesn ' t qualify as an environmental disservice . Again, beyond me . So I would like to ask two things June 21, 2022 111 -- well , let me start with my final conclusion . I know you are going to hear a lot of pleas tonight and I understand, because it ' s Affordable Housing . But I do ask you to consider the precedent you would be sending -- setting in terms of location . And I don ' t want to see you guys take yourselves off ( inaudible ) Affordable Housing by agreeing this quick fix by a company for a one project in the wrong place . I would like you to encourage you to respect your zoning code and your Affordable Housing code . I would like to see this application form a focal point for the Town ' s seriously pursuing ways to provide more Affordable Housing in appropriate locations . That could include finding locations in the Hamlet . The concept that Cutchogue is somehow like in terms of value, Park Avenue versus outlying areas , sort of escaped me . And the concept that land everywhere here is -- is different in value . Certainly values up further June 21, 2022 112 north are just as bad as they are in the Hamlet areas . I think you need monetary incentives . I think you perhaps need subsidies . Good aggressive Affordable Housing coordinator would be called for . And legislation to expand current areas of Affordable Housing, which I think other people tonight will hopefully address . You mentioned it was a scenic highway that is important . And traffic, this is a bad place for 24 homes to enter on a straight way where people ZOOM. Where you would have to make a very quick turn to go east -- to go west . You start out east or you ' re going to have to shoot across to go -- crossover in there . I would like to ask if the BVH proposal was submitted to you in the form of a written memorandum? I would like to have the opportunity to read that and respond to it after I may, after the hearing and before the hearing is closed . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: It ' s part of the record . June 21, 2022 113 MS . GAIL WICKHAN : I looked for it . I didn ' t see it yet . Thank you . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Pat? MS . PAT LUTSKI : First of all , I am not really comfortable following an astute attorney, Ms . Gail Wickham, but I am going to give it my best shot . I stand before you as the Co-Chair as the Housing Advisory Commission . We have spent many hours as a group vetting the project . Listening to GGV, discussing it among ourselves . And I have here a consensus statement that I am going to read on behalf of the Housing Advisory Commission and the local economy . We all recognize that we need a sustainable workforce to support our businesses . We need a sustainable workforce to support essential services like healthcare, fire and EMS volunteers . Educators and workers who support our agricultural industries . The sparsity of Affordable Housing affects local businesses . It shrinks the labor pool . It diminishes the quality and the result of an June 21, 2022 114 inability for businesses to expand, to grow and to innovate . We need to create Affordable Housing opportunities for our young adults , fresh from graduation, seeking employment here on the North Fork . For our single family and one wage earning households . For our families who want to continue to live close to their place of employment and not spend enormous time commuting . We need to find solutions to the universal problem of Affordable Housing . And it is not just affecting 24 families , it ' s affecting every business on the North Fork . Housing scarcity creates -- we need to address the problem of Affordable Housing scarcity and create stable housing for our workforce . And I would like to speak to you as a private citizen . We all respect what you do . We respect that we all have to do our due diligence in maintaining the character of the Town, protecting the environment and the application of municipal responsibility . But we also June 21, 2022 115 have to face one important fact here . We ' re in a housing crisis . When faced with a crisis , we need to think outside the box . My play to you is this , rather than focus on how Cutchogue Woods may or may not subscribe to zoning requirements , maybe we need to look at those zoning requirements . Maybe we need to explore other ways to make zoning work for the needs of the community right now . We can no longer afford to throw the baby out of the bath water, otherwise we run the risk of not growing enough Affordable Housing to meet our need . One development, I recently spoke to about this project , he said to me, "there just isn ' t enough available property in halo zones to make a dent in the current housing crisis . Moreover, the investment in land, architects , engineers , legal counsel , even before obtaining any green light for apartments is significant . We need to work collaboratively with our developers . Those who are willing to June 21, 2022 116 put their money where their mouths are . Not just rederick . And reach mutually agreeable solutions . Not place roadblocks that dilute the process in solving the Affordable Housing shortage in our Town . " I find the argument a ( inaudible ) near a Hamlet center is impractical and even unrealistic . If you live on the North Fork, you are vehicle dependent . It is our way of life . If we are continue to restrict Affordable Housing only to Hamlet centers , we ' re limiting ourselves . As Town leaders , confronted with an Affordable Housing crisis , I ask you to consider reviewing zoning district constraints on Affordable Housing and in particular, on Cutchogue Woods . Thank you . MS . CHERYLE AMARA: I am on the Housing Commission with Pat also . My name is Cheryle . When Mr . Doroski read the file, we had sent a letter advocating for the Cutchogue Woods project to Supervisor Russell and the June 21, 2022 117 Board on June 13th? COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Yes . The letter was in there . MS . CHERYLE AMARA: I didn ' t hear you mention it . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I didn ' t read through all the letters -- MS . CHERYLE AMARA: I know you just said that this one is here . This one is here . We were concerned because we did write a letter in support of this project . After doing the due diligence , as we do with every developer who comes to the Housing Advisory Commission to talks to us about these projects . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I am going to ask at this point if you could be very brief because -- MS . CHERYLE AMARA: I am done . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Okay . MS . CHERYLE AMARA: We just want to make sure you got the letter . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I know . I just going to ask people from the Town, that we let the public speak and June 21, 2022 118 then we will speak after that . MS . CHERYLE AMARA: That ' s fine . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Anthony? MR . ANTHONY SANNINO : Hi everybody . Thank you for letting me speak . Anthony Sannino, from Cutchogue . I have been farming out here now for 17 years , on approximately 50 acres . 26 are grape vines . I am also a licensed contractor in the Suffolk County . I think 33 years now . I am very familiar -- I appreciate the details and precision and -- you are going to provide adequate workforce housing, but I do have to say that I am adamantly opposed to this project . But before going into details on why I am opposed to it, I do want to offer -- and if I could just hand up a couple of copies of a current code that we have . For you to take a look at it . So currently we have an accessory apartment code . If we could simply at a Code Committee meeting make a simple change , I guarantee you, we would have an influx of Affordable Housing June 21, 2022 119 opportunities . In the code right now, at B, it says that a an accessory apartment should be for -- any individual and then the principal should be a principal resident occupying the other part of the house . I think we can simply change that principal resident to second homeowner, and that will open up an opportunity for a second homeowners to put accessory apartments in their homes . And on the back side, we have that the homes that should have accessory apartments should be built before 2004 . So as a builder, we know that homes that are built after that point will meet current codes , especially sanitary codes with Health Department . And if we bring that up to the current date, I think we will open up a huge market for accessory apartments that could be an easy solution for more Affordable Housing . So my objections you probably want to hear . Very similar to what Gail has said . And I think -- we should not have June 21, 2022 120 closed the Big House hearing because if I heard correctly, these units are 7 , 000 square feet and we ' re talking about 6 acres of property here . And there are several 7 , 000 square foot units going in here . 24 bathrooms . Sounds like a mic-mansion to be to be high density development . Anyway, the accessory apartment option we have , if you can visit this immediately, is completely ( inaudible ) these homes already exist . So if we have an opportunity -- I know right now that I have two customers that want to put apartments in their home , but they don ' t conform because their homes are actually newer than 2004 . So I thin that would be extremely helpful . Parking for 24 residents in this high density proposal is going to be at least 48 cars . My winery was actually only approved for 39 parking spaces . And I am literally across the street from this development . So I think that should seriously be looked at . I do have a question -- we talked about -- mentioned June 21, 2022 121 fueling . What exactly would be heating these buildings ? Make sure we ' re not storing any fuels on the property . MS . RONA SMITH : Heat pumps . MR . ANTHONY SANNINO : What is the fuel source? Is that electric? Is that gas ? MS . RONA SMITH : We have to go to site plan approval and we also have to have SEQRA investigation . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Can I just ask -- sorry, I should have jumped in . If you have any questions , ask us , and then I can get answers after . Sorry, that was my fault . I shouldn ' t have let that happen . MR . ANTHONY SANNINO : One of my questions would be , I think there is a moratorium on gas and I know we have gas on Route 48 . If they were going to be fueling these properties with oil , I am sure it would be oil tanks . So there would be a case of storing fuel there . I think changing our zone is a huge precedent . We should -- Affordable June 21, 2022 122 Housing should take precedence in our Town but we shouldn ' t be setting a precedent for taking properties . We have much larger parcels . I think farmers are already challenged with developers coming in and buying their property . Our property value is skyrocketing . And one of the things that I am part of is an AG Advisory Committee in the Town here . And one of my biggest concerns is , how are we going to keep agricultural ? Once we set a precedent and start developing property in this manner, by changing zones , what is going to happen with the farmland . Now I came from Huntington and I moved to Manorville, which is the Town of Brookhaven . I watched the Town of Huntington go from farmland to complete residential . Very little or no farm . I was in Manorville and then Manorville, Brookhaven did the same thing as what Huntington township and we ' re the last in Southold . So we ' re setting a precedent that gives a direct end to June 21, 2022 123 farmers to develop their land . So I am not sure how you guys would change zoning and then stop another farmer from doing exactly the same thing . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: 24 units is all that is allowed in our code . It ' s the max . And all the Affordable parcels are a change of zone . There are not any AHD parcels that exist within the Town . MR . ANTHONY SANNINO : Interesting . Instead of opening a winery, I could have collected rent on 24 units . I think I hit my points . I think Gail hit a lot of my objections , every single one of them. Our aquifer is extremely important . I have seen that image of the bubble . When you put in 24 units and provide a septic system for it, even if it ' s an AI system, we are definitely going to affect our groundwater on a very small parcel of land . So I think it ' s something that we definitely have to consider there . 24 units , minimum 48 people . If you have 2 people per unit, June 21, 2022 124 it ' s quite a bit of wastewater and I am sure laundry is going to be done . And I know that they have a collection system for their groundwater and runoff, but again, runoff from where , parking lots . And there is a lot of parking spaces there . That is not clean water going into our aquifer . I think I hit my points . Thank you . MS . CHRIS LARKIN : Thank you Town Board for holding this hearing . My name is Chris Larkin . And I am here to speak in behalf of support of Cutchogue Woods . As already mentioned this evening, we all know that the county has a variety of Affordable Housing options . I understand that there were be some new Affordable Housing options that the Board has recently considered or past . And I really commend you for taking these steps for these additional apartments in these halo areas ; however, the expansion of this housing opportunity does not negate the fact that Cutchogue Woods offers the Town an June 21, 2022 125 extremely viable opportunity to increase housing for eligible applicants . I know there is push back already . You have heard it tonight . But if past , this will -- it seems a few locations for Affordable Housing are perfect out here . It ' s too close to other homes , there were apparently other farms , neighbors complained . If its in the Hamlet , the cost to purchase the property is probably likely prohibited to the development or there are concerns about traffic . If there is environmentally sensitive location, then that actually explains much of the South Fork . So many sites can be ruled out on that criteria alone . If you look at that map -- if you are not going to consider on the aquifer, that is a lot of land that is going to be ruled out and maybe has to be -- Affordable Housing has to be built on Nassau Point or something because that is not in the aquifer . It ' s likely that this property will likely be developed in some point in June 21, 2022 126 time . It has not been used for farmland in recent past and it does not seem to be on the preservation list . Why not take this opportunity to do some good for the community now and for the future . The developer for this project has an exemplary record for building services and maintaining properties that this company has managed . It really -- his presentation seems to be for real . I suggest that you past this change of code to allow the project to simply be evaluated further on its merits . Let ' s not let this opportunity pass us by . Thank you very much . MS . JANE MEHRING : Good evening Southold Town Board . My name is Jane Mehring . I live in Amagansett East Hampton on the other or the South Fork . Is it appropriate that I address your Town? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Please feel free . MS . JANE MEHRING : Thank you . Forgive me, I hope you will indulge my June 21, 2022 127 ( inaudible ) interloper status . And I will say I am not qualified here or specifically here to comment about the appropriateness or density of this specific project on this location proposed . Actually I am speaking on this hearing, it ' s unplanned and completely coincidental . I have not coordinated with GGV or Dave Gallo . Actually I was watching your Town Board meeting on the Zoom, the prior public hearing and had my hand raised and offered comment regarding in support of your proposal to amend Southold Zoning Code, to implement rational change to development and house size . But when I heard you read this hearing into the record, I wanted to -- and felt that I needed to stay on and comment . Amagansett where I live, is one of the smallest most rural hamlets in East Hampton Town . And I would say that we are the most fussy and very protective about our Ag land and also proud ourselves being the most laid back of June 21, 2022 128 the hamlets in East Hampton . When Gansett Meadows which is a project that the applicant has referred to, was proposed, we were incredibly cautious about it . We had concerns to say the least . But it didn ' t go through the approval process . It was built and it has become a great essential and integrated part of our community . I did meet with Dave Gallo and he was essential to me in building -- in helping me build my overall understanding of the complex issues of Affordable Community Housing . What I found is , I really believe he understands how to do a project in harmony and specifically in sync with community needs and character . Most importantly East Hampton Town has invited GGV and Mr . Gallo back to develop additional community projects for community housing in our Town . Regarding house size, zoning code , we discussed earlier tonight, I can tell you, that as of very long term resident June 21, 2022 129 of Easy Hampton, I can tell you what happens if you don ' t adapt rational and balance guidelines for house size and development . And I can also tell you what happens if you do not get behind these Affordable Housing and community housing projects . Especially when you are in a community like Southold . You will not be able to realize and protect your affordability, your agricultural , your natural resources . Your rural preservation and sustainability and quality life imperatives . Without these types of Affordable Housing projects , even though they seem like they ' re too dense or they don ' t comport , long term residents and next generation and people who live and work in the community will not be able to remain in Town . Your community will be decimated . I am speaking from your future . So thank you for indulging me and allowing me to speak in your meeting . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Paul ? MR . PAUL ROMANELLI : My name is June 21, 2022 130 Paul Romanelli . I have lived in Cutchogue for the last 25 years . I am a business owner here in Town . I own Suffolk Security System. I employ as many local people as you can . I don ' t think there is any question, we need Affordable Housing . Workforce housing, whatever you want to call it . That is the reason why I am here tonight . I am in full favor of this project . I have sat on the Cutchogue Hamlet Stakeholders Group back when we were going through this Comprehensive Planning . The comments about Affordable Housing being within the Hamlet area, close to the Town or Village , transportation . They ' re recommendations . Not demanding . There was no way that some of that high price Main Road property is going to be used for Affordable Housing in most districts . It was never the intent that that was the only place that Affordable Housing can go . So let ' s be clear about that . Every project that comes before this Town for Affordable Housing, there June 21, 2022 131 is always some sort of opposition to it , and for a variety of reasons . And some of it are highly valuable . I used to live next door to now what is Forest Point . Scott, you will remember, ( inaudible ) 125 quarter acre lots that could have been -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : 165 . MR . PAUL ROMANELLI : 165 . Even more . Then it was negotiated down to condominium development with original 120 and 130 units . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : It went from 165 to 124 . The original one had no open space . We were able to elicit down to 124 units and 500 open space . MR . PAUL ROMANELLI : And there was originally an Affordable Housing aspect to that proposal . That builder fought their way another way . So that was in the Hamlet way . Walking distance to the Village . Never happened . I commend this group for coming in here today and presenting what they did . It seems that they ' re using technology and insight and June 21, 2022 132 presence at their communities to make sure that they ' re managed and stay relevant and professional . I am impressed by the fact that 40% remains woods . That they have created that 600 foot buffer in the front . I have traveled to Houston, Texas , and there was a community north of Houston called the Woodlands . And their communities , they ' re all built around roads where there is trees and you don ' t see the communities . And that is really what their approach is . I have no formal words here to say, other than the fact -- zoning is a tool . It ' s not fixed in place where you can ' t make changes to a zone or you can ' t modify things . It ' s a tool for playing . To make us work and think and try and keep things organized . Nothing ever fits all nice and neat and nice package . This package I think is right . What we can use in this Town and frankly, if we can find more places like this in Southold Town, and other hamlets , I would endorse this group June 21, 2022 133 again . Thank you . MS . KIM SQUATZENE : Good evening . Thank you for allowing me to speak . I will keep it very brief . I am not a resident to this Town . I am a ( inaudible ) Commons resident . I live in a Georgica managed property and the previous speaker, ditto everything he said . To make it easier . Housing is not always easy to find and the blessing that has given me and my child in my life is truly overwhelming . I actually have cried . It has been 2 1/2 years now . So I will spare you the tears , but in the beginning, I did cry a lot of how overwhelming it changed my life . And I just want to attest to everything that Georgica has said about the maintaining and their management . Spot on . Fantastic . With the community, the residents . They ' re on top of everything . They ' re fantastic . We get newsletters . Everybody is up to date . We have even gotten surveys to see what could make our community safe for us . June 21, 2022 134 Not only do they care about your community, they care about the residents . And truly, thank you . Blessings for me . Thank you . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Can you just state your name for the record? MS . KIM SQUATZENE : Sorry . Kim Squatzene . Good luck spelling that . MR . FRED ANDREWS : Thank you for the privilege to address you this evening . My name is Fred Andrews . ( Inaudible ) lived in -- 8 years , since 2010 to 2018 . My heart is still here . My wife and I still go to church here . My wife is the director of the ( inaudible ) right across the street . A lot of times trying to raise money for . I am strong supporter of Cutchogue Woods . Rock solid proposal . It is sorely needed . And I am fan of the proposed . I know Rona Smith for 67 years . She ' s impressive . I was on the Housing Advisory Commission when she was Chairman . We didn ' t always agree , but I always admired her persistent support June 21, 2022 135 for Affordable Housing . She is smart . She knows all that she needs to know about development . If she is in charge of any project, it will succeed . I read the Planning Board ' s memo that was sent to the Board . As far as I can see from that memo , the Planning Board is basing its position just four words in the Comprehensive Plan, proximity, Hamlet center, no more . That is all . I contrast -- we all know that the Comprehensive Plan goes on great length to talk about the Town ' s dire need for Affordable Housing . I don ' t need to repeat what has been said already . The need for housing -- is a crisis according to the Comprehensive Plan . The Planning Board ' s memo says , "additionally, a distance of 1 /2 mile is a smart ( inaudible ) . How did the Planning Board come up with that number? There is nothing about a 1 /2 mile in the Comprehensive Plan . The Planning Board provides no authority for that distance . A half a mile is only an opinion . Not June 21, 2022 136 written in stone . Feel free to ignore it . When the Planning Board says that Cutchogue Woods " is not in reasonable proximity to Hamlet centers , " once again the board is defined reasonably . Reasonable proximity depends on how you are getting around . If you are driving 2 miles , it ' s very reasonable . The Planning Board says that Cutchogue Woods is too great a distance from Cutchogue Hamlet center, both sides . Two miles would not allow reasonable access without vehicles or public transportation . With all due respect, I think the Planning Board is straining to protect a group of people that exist only in mythology . There is no set ( inaudible ) tenants don ' t own a car, you have to own a car . If you go to live your life . People who live in Affordable Housing are like the rest of us , they drive to work and to school . They drive to the supermarket . They drive to the bank . They drive to church . They drive to go fishing . And June 21, 2022 137 when pass on, they will be driven to the center . The Planning Board says that public transportation is deficient . The nearest bus route is greater than 1 . 84 miles . Again, with all due respect to the Suffolk County Transit, no one lives an every day life in Southold ( inaudible ) depend on the bus . Because -- you can ' t carry four bags of grocery through IGA from the box . ( Inaudible ) . You can ' t work for Charles Ward or farms or any where else on the North Fork ( inaudible ) on the S- 92 . The Planning Board also says that Cutchogue Woods , the infrastructure is defiant to pedestrian access to the Hamlet center with no reasonable way to improve pedestrian connection . If someone lived in the very center of Cutchogue, right next to the post office, you would ( inaudible ) library around the corner . That is about it . You still couldn ' t get along with a car . You would have to walk almost a mile to get to King Kullen . There is no good reason in my June 21, 2022 138 opinion to deny this zoning change . The Planning Board, I think has failed to make the case against . But if you decide to approve the change of zoning, you will have ample opportunity down the road to say yes or no to the project . On the other hand, if you deny the change , Cutchogue Woods will die, will be followed in its cradle . Die without ever having ( inaudible ) . Die with having a Public Hearing, whether it ' s good or bad to the community as opposed to zoning change tonight . Cutchogue Woods is a most appropriate proposal for Affordable Housing and lands on the doorstep of the community . And I think it ' s the obligation of the Town Board to seize it and do everything they can to succeed, as opposed to letting -- on the basis of technical changes . I urge you to approve the zoning change it requires . And I thank you very much . MR . RUSSELL MCCALL : I will be short . It has been too long already . I am sure you all feel the same way . My June 21, 2022 139 name is Russell McCall . And I own property that joins this proposed developer . I started preserving property for signed development rights to the Town, when Jean Cochrane was the Supervisor . That was probably 30 years ago . And I have known every supervisor since . And I have known all the people of the Planning Board and of course Melissa Spiro . And the policy of the Town has been to sell -- to buy development rights to create expanders . To create something so that we won ' t look like Levitown . Expansive that are broad and pristine and stay that way . That you come back in 1 , 000 years , it should still be the same . It ' s going to be there . Period . Now, there are like 7 or 8 families , people that have preserved land on Alvahs Lane to Elijah ' s Lane . Far north, you are going to be on the North Road . It is a huge mistake to dump -- to say, yes , we do need this housing . Everybody says that . So at the last minute , we found nothing . June 21, 2022 140 So we ' re just going to approve it . That is a mistake . You have to think ahead . You have to think ahead of what ' s going to be here for hundreds of years for the Town of Southold to look at . Now that, I made a mistake . It ' s okay -- let ' s just rush through this project because this developer is better than the other developer . Let me tell you, they are all in business to make money . So nice or not nice, developers are developers . I bought a piece of property on a 48 Depot Lane that is preserved . 30 acres . I am not sure . Across the street , when they wanted to develop it, I said, why not put in a 100 foot barrier? Because we drive up and down the North Road . And they said, good idea . So this storage center, I am sure you all know where it is . They gave them a right to develop it . Intense, industrial . All that . But it had to be 100 feet . Guess what? It ' s not 100 feet anymore because the Town has never followed up because the property owner has a eroded it over June 21, 2022 141 time . So yes , I believe the developers . They are probably honest about what they ' re saying now . What ' s going to happen in 10 years ? 20 years ? 30 years ? You ' re going to need a playground . You are going to need this . You are going to need that . So my plea for you tonight , is don ' t make them go away . This is a vibrant thing that should be in Town but don ' t grab it because you feel bad and you have to do it . Planning is very important . We ' re not coming back, but if we could, it would be really nice to see everything in one big huge quadrangle . That stays farming . Stays open . Stays picturesque . Thank you . MS . SANDRA BENEDETTO : Good evening . My name is Sandra Benedetto . I am a resident of Greenport for 23 years . I didn ' t come here with prepared remarks but I have been moved to speak . I have heard a lot about everyone ' s support for Affordable Housing . I think that is very audible . Everyone can say June 21, 2022 142 they support it . I am a technology developer . I am not a land developer . Real estate developer, but I am an advocate for Affordable Housing . I am an advocate for the environment here . I am an advocate for all residents of Southold . And one of the things that has been touched upon and I just want to make my remarks about , are the people of Southold Town who need Affordable Housing . These are people who are working people . These are people who are young people . These are people who are neighbors and our friends . And in fact, they ' re even our Town employees . I heard tonight somebody making $22 . 81 an hour . Well , that ' s $ 47 , 445 a year . That person needs Affordable Housing . And we need to look at what we need to do . I have heard a lot about halo zones , but I don ' t see the space in the hamlets . So we need to get creative . And when I say that, I don ' t mean by pinching quarters or trying to submerge things . I mean about looking at June 21, 2022 143 innovation and solutions and technology that we could look at other land that we have and respect the environment and respect our neighbors , and build housing for our citizens . Not just our workers , but our neighbors . People who live here, who spend their money here . Who are economic force all year round . And who are contributors to this community . They raise their kids here . They send them to school here . Nothing is perfect . And the -- before I close, one of the things that I want to say because I am astounded at this gift , I would like to applaud Rona Smith because what I think you ' re doing is really an amazing thing . I have never heard of it before in any Town . But I do think it ' s not going to be easy . But we need to, you know, understand that it won ' t be perfect . Let us not sacrifice the good for the perfect . If there are challenges , we must meet them. And we must meet them and are responsible creative way . So I just want to thank June 21, 2022 144 you again for having this hearing . And thank you very much . MS . AMANDA ACKRAN : Hello everyone . My name is Amanda Ackran, and I moved to Southold in 2009 . I went to Southold High School and I went to college in the city . I went to traveling all around the world . And I recently graduated with my Master ' s Degree in education from Perdue University . Then I moved home . I moved home because that is where my family was . Now, I am in my late 20 ' s . Looking to settle down . Maybe build a family of my own . I also work in Greenport at probably one of your favorite restaurants that there is . I would like to say that I am not the only young person out here . I have heard a lot of different and valid arguments . I don ' t have anything prepared but as a 27-year-old, who would like to come home, I can ' t . I currently am living in a restored and renovated 1967 airstream. I live in an airstream . I would like to be a person who teaches June 21, 2022 145 your children with my Master ' s , with my education . I am an Art Director at the local summer camp here . I would like to be someone who can give back, but I can ' t do that when I can ' t be warm in the winter . There are going to be issues , whether it ' s here or 123 Sterling Avenue in Greenport . There will be plenty of things that we can come up and say, yeah, X, Y and Z . But as a young person, as someone who doesn ' t own property, who can ' t property even if I wanted to, I am asking you to do something . I am asking you to give me the opportunity to give back to the community that I grew up in . I don ' t really have much more to say . I hope you approve it or I hope you do something because there is just no way like young people like myself can sustain . Thank you . MS . NICKI GARRELL : Hello . This is Nicki Garrell . I see some familiar faces . With confidence of the people who know me here, there is nothing more June 21, 2022 146 important than farmland . There is nothing more important than our water quality and our beaches , but if the people who grew up here and the people who clean your house, plant your trees , do anything in the service, can ' t live here, Greenport is going to end up like how I was when I was a kid . You forget . It ' s bustling now . It ' s not the same place . I remember growing up, oh, you want to go to Greenport? No . Not really . You know, we can ' t stay in the same mindset everything has to stay the same . The rules are this way and there is no changing . We can ' t sustain it . Businesses will close . How many help signs are there? Everywhere . They are everywhere . I am lucky enough to work for someone who pays me enough to live here, but I know -- I am special in that way . You know -- and I know people have questions . People have worries , but if we ' re not going to improve this , what will we improve? You know, what are we going to do? How many people are going June 21, 2022 147 to move to South Carolina? You know, move upstate? Move to Florida . How much -- how many people work 2 or 3 jobs to simply be able to stay here? People love it here . You grow up here . We talk about community . How can we have a community when there are over 1 , 000 Airbnb ' s in the area? You know, there are a lot of things that add up to no rental . No rentals . How can you explain to someone , don ' t earn a $ 1 , 000 a night . Rent it to another person for $2 , 000 a month . I get it . If I had a house and I could rent it out for that much, of course , I would do it . But we can ' t -- you know, we can ' t say, oh, we have rental rules and not enforce them. Oh, we have zoning ideas but we ' re only going to stick to this very, very tiny perimeter . Something has to give . I don ' t know what . That is not really my job, but you know, you ' re all elected officials . You were elected because you were trusted . People don ' t defy everybody . Thank you . June 21, 2022 148 MR . ERIC ALEXANDER : Eric Alexander, director of Vision of Long Island . We ' re involved in community based planning . Sorting out the issues . Just like you ' re sorting out on how to get affordability in different town ' s and communities across town . Mostly focus on town revitalization . In some ways we ' re a little bit to blame for the challenge of saying only Affordable Housing in Hamlet areas because for years , we wanted to see that for a whole variety of reasons . The economics of just developing not only in the halo zones and the Town of Southold but all the town ' s in the east end . All the town ' s across Long Island . The values of properties in downtown areas have spiked to such a degree, that getting affordability that masses subsidiary or masses density is incredibly challenging . So how do you get units? How do you meet the needs of what you heard and what you deal with in your community? So we have -- our June 21, 2022 149 organization has become more flexible in supporting Affordable Housing outside Hamlet areas . We were supportive of your halo zone . You know, many years ago . We thought it was a very wise approach . In this climate, it hasn ' t been able to yield as much . And it ' s not your fault . It ' s everywhere . So we understand those challenges . We just want to say there are a lot of planning reasons why this application has been sensitive to the area . You will sort that out locally, but again, 400 open space . Two-story building . Simple architecture . The fact two from Affordable Housing perspective , this is truly Affordable Housing . It ' s 600 of the AMI and so it ' s 1000 AMI , but it is certainly regulated that way . And I think part of the challenge too, you know, you are going to sort out throughout this process , having workers drive from far away and you know, the greenhouse emissions , you don ' t have ( inaudible ) maybe Southampton and East June 21, 2022 150 Hampton, but it is a challenge when you got workforce housing integrating in literally every day . That is trying to get housing . That chart that was put up with all the different categories of jobs , job sectors and specific locations . That was really powerful . We had not seen that before . And that speaks to the local -- the hyper local approach, focus in our neighborhood . We have to plan for that . We started with principals 24 years ago . They need to be adapted a bit over time . You don ' t completely immediately shift and throw them out . Not at all . But there are times when they need to be flexible or really -- no one thought there would be a Coronavirus the way that this has been . No one thought there would be an influx of these folks from Manhattan coming out here to the east end the way it ' s been . I tell my friends in Manhattan, all these regional people , you know, hey guys , get your act together . Take it back . We got our own June 21, 2022 151 issues here . You know . Don ' t try and plan this and take over local zoning and say, hey, let ' s just have State zoning and they will control , you know, things . Not at all . You guys know how to sort this out . I believe you do . I love the dialogue and the respectful dialogue . It ' s on the sign as you walk in here . So I learned a lot from your community . I am not from your community, again . I stopped at a farm stand and one of the ladies Eve, "you look like a taxi driver, limo driver . You don ' t fit it . Yeah . " You know . I will also say, I do know Georgica Green . There are a handful of Affordable Housing developers that do a great job . And they manage their property with minimal security issues . They have security on site . We have been at their sites . We have helped them through the process and we recognize the value of -- this is amazing . This isn ' t easy to do . And I know there is a lot involved but in the end of the day, you know, we got to June 21, 2022 152 think about working people . You could have three mic-mansions or whatever going there . Maybe not . Because the Zoning Board is so good to make it a little better than some of the stuff up island, but at the end of the day -- it was interesting -- sorry . Last point . I do think farming does have to be, from a planning perspective, preserved . And you do need to recognize the residential conflicts , but if you had three mic-mansions there , there will still be some kind of challenges . So that has to be sorted out . I am sure Georgica and their team are willing to work with their neighbors . They have done that elsewhere . With that said, some working people , at the end of the day, our organization supports . And just observations , guidance and advice . I don ' t live here . But continue the dialogue and very powerful . Thank you . MR . ALBERT KRUPSKI : Hi . Good evening . Al Krupski , Cutchogue . First I will read a letter from someone who June 21, 2022 153 couldn ' t come . "Dear Supervisor Russell , Members of the Town Board . I am writing to ask you to deny the application of Housing Initiatives , LLC, and Georgica Green Ventures to rezone the 5 . 6 acres parcel located on the south side of Middle Road in Cutchogue . " And it has the tax map number and everything . To be clear the development of Affordable Housing in Southold Town, and I appreciate and admire the -- I am sorry . To be clear, I support the development of Affordable Housing in Southold Town and I appreciate and admire the passion of the applicants . On deciding on the proposed project contrary to smart growth principals , use the Town Planning initiatives and ( inaudible ) protecting Southold ' s environment and maintaining semblance of rural character . If this project were appropriately sited, I would enthusiastically support the zone change . As a fourth generation of Mattituck High School and as a mother of June 21, 2022 154 a 33-year-old child who moved back home three years ago because of the lack of Affordable Housing, only moved out recently and is paying almost half his monthly income on rent . I feel like I can speak on this issue with credibility . Additionally I serve on the Cutchogue Hamlet Stakeholder group, where we outline the recommended adoption of halo zones for future development . This is the area where people can access transportation, walk to the post office , grocery store and library . This is were Affordable Housing belongs . The newest Town Board members have the zoning authority to direct Affordable Housing development to these Hamlet halo zones . Years of studies and plans conducted with the permission by the Town to support this . Finally, it ' s my understanding that the parcel in question contains a parcel of oak trees . Oaks are considered a key species . Meaning they support many other species of foe and fauna . At an June 21, 2022 155 age where we ' re ( inaudible ) increased development and not just in Southold but globally . And it ' s incumbent upon us to do our very utmost locally and preserve these woodland ecological important parcels . Thank you for your consideration . Sincerely Gwen Schroeder, Cutchogue . " And I will submit this to the clerk when I am done . When this parcel came up, I was a little bit concerned because I sit on the Town Board for years with some of the Board members here . When someone comes in for a zone change application, legally the Town Board does not have to consider a zone change . They can dismiss it out of right . Why hire a legal team, advocates , planners , engineers , lawyers and others to support something that the Town Board doesn ' t even have to consider, let alone vote on . So I was very concerned that this was getting this far without having my -- doing your full vetting . Now you have years and years in the process on June 21, 2022 156 the detail of the plan -- project . Many times the Town Board considers the zone change . Dismisses it out of hand and then that is the end of the zone change . And there is a reason for this . It ' s the New York State Law and it ' s because planning doesn ' t support some of these ideas . And so that ' s the reason the Town Board has the authority to dismiss these ideas . You need to depersonalize the zone changes . You can ' t say, well , that guy, he ' s a bad guy . He wants to do this . What might be good for the community but I don ' t like him . He doesn ' t belong to the right country club . He doesn ' t drive a brand new car . I don ' t like him. But that guy, I like him . He belongs to the right country club and he drives the right car . So he ' s -- he ' s okay . And you have to depersonalize these things . One of the other speaks said, in a 100 years , we won ' t be here, but what is this Town gong to look like in a 100 years . I know the developer and I know the June 21, 2022 157 builder and they have been at my office and they are very nice people . And they have very good reputations . But that is not a reason to give them the zoning . Just because they ' re nice people and they have good reputations and honest . That is not the reason to give somebody zoning . So how many times -- we are almost 400 years old and the Town should be proud that we faced this challenge . There has been so many planning efforts over the years . And if you go back -- everyone mentions the Comprehensive Plan, which is a 10 year effort, which I applaud the current Town Board for working through it . If you go back even further Southold, 2020 the US and UK exchange . There are so many efforts for Southolder ' s who wanted to make sure Southold Town retains some of its character . The concept of land preservation . So a lot has been said by the applicant, I think about plan preservation . And I am not sure if the whole story has been told . There is 33 June 21, 2022 158 acres of woods across the street from this project that I have gotten a resolution passed of Suffolk County to order appraisals , so that Suffolk County could purchase that as open space . Because there is so little woodland left on the North Fork . This parcel , when the owner or the developer came in, I made the offer . I said please , enter the land preservation program. And the offer still stands . The offer still stands for this applicant to come in and enter the land preservation program. At least see what your options are . It ' s a voluntary program. You come in -- that is why a lot of the Town is preserving . It ' s a voluntary program . You come in . You let the county come in and perform the necessary appraisals and then the County is authorized to make an offer . And then you see what , you know, your options are . And that offer of land preservation there still stands . Of all those years of planning, the Hamlet stakeholders and you know, what a group June 21, 2022 159 that went through all the planning and zoning to try and control the developers in the Town . To try and direct in certain areas . If you let that kind of development and high density development outside of the halos , all you get is suburban sprawl . And if you allow for suburban sprawl here, for a good reason and no one is saying we don ' t need housing . Housing is a huge problem in Town . Everyone agrees with that . If you allow for suburban sprawl here, then you allow for suburban sprawl there, pretty soon you got suburban sprawl everywhere . So we know also that we can ' t build our way out of this . And the further you go , all the way to the east river, housing is not cheap . It ' s a lot denser, but it ' s not any cheaper . I would just like to thank the Planning Board and the Planning staff because we have professionals here in our Town who work for everyone in the Town and make recommendations . I think that is very helpful to have professional Planning June 21, 2022 160 staff here . And finally, you know, so there is an option not to pave what is left, but to save what is left . So I hope that in the end of this , that offer be extended and the preservation be considered here . Thank you . MR . MICHAEL DALY : Hi . Good evening, Supervisor and Members of the Board . My name is Michael Daly . And I am a member of the East End YIMBY, which is a an organization that serves to educate local residents , best practices around community housing on the east end . We service all five east end town ' s . Just the way environmental organizations , Peconic Estuary Program and the Peconic Land Trust . We also work with -- with residents , as well as , Town governments and Housing Authorities in each of the five east end towns . We supporters are committed to the responsible and environmentally sound development of community housing for local residents . We do care about the environment . We live here too . We care June 21, 2022 161 about wildlife, but we also care about human life . You know, we have all seen situations where -- whether it ' s bats or pocket salamanders , you know, will appear and get in the way of community developments . We also care about the character of the east end . We can preserve buildings . We can make a building any way that we want to and we have demonstrated that . But we believe that the humans are an important character of the east end . We ' re encouraged by the fact that you ' re holding this hearing today to consider the Local Law option to and the zoning map for change of zoning . And I read your Comprehensive -- Chapter 8 of your Comprehensive Plan, you know, 8 or 10 months ago . And then I re-read it preparing for tonights hearing . And it really is an actual discussion . Really acknowledges the truth about the need for Affordable Housing and provides goals and objectives . And I am not going to read it to you . Some other June 21, 2022 162 people have already referred to it . But a couple of things that stood out to me that was almost 500 of the renters -- and this was in 2020 after you had spent a number of years refining it and preparing it . Almost 500 of renters pay more than 300 of their income on housing . That Safe and Affordable Housing is viable to community stability and growth . Increasing the amount of Affordable Housing can help sustain its year-round residents and a goal of the Town . But also your goal and objectives , Goal #1 , was to create Affordable Housing . And in some of your options and methods of that , it takes about change of zoning designation by the Town Board to the AHD zones . And it talks about that as a tool , that needs to be used . It also talks Objective 1 . 2 , encouraging the development of new diversified housing to meet the needs of year-round residents . Exploring the feasibility of identifying potential locations for Affordable Housing . That June 21, 2022 163 would be readily available . You know, you only find people who are in opposition to these types of things . The statement is always , "this is not the right place for it . We believe in Affordable Housing . God knows everybody needs Affordable Housing . Just don ' t put it here . " I have not heard one person recommend any other place that it could go tonight . Okay? Don ' t put it here? It ' s like playing whack-a-mole . You go into the -- wait for the mole to come in and you whack it . No, not here . Not here . Not you . Not me . Nope . Nope . Where is it going to go? This is a very appropriate place for it . And we love trees to . We love people . And we need to preserve our local community members . We know that . Bullet 5 is to develop Best Practices in Housing and for the Town to meet the housing needs of its residents . It must stay abreast of national legislation, policies and programs that should provide for solutions for creating housing . Now I June 21, 2022 164 will tell you as a person who has gotten too emersed in Affordable Community Housing, that there are communities all over the nation that are really changing their zoning in dramatic ways because they realize that the zoning has created significantly too many restrictions . And they have to change . They have to relax . So you have to relax . You have the opportunity, you have the authority, you have the goals , to -- to approve this change of zoning . And we ' re not here tonight to really discuss the merits of the community development, but -- because that is not on the agenda . It ' s the zoning change . And we know that that -- if you approve the zoning change , that proposal will go through an extensive application process . Including SEQRA, public hearings . And we, you know, we want you to know -- we don ' t need to tell you that Rona Smith is such a viable asset to this Town and have given years and years of Affordable Housing . And Dave Gallo is perhaps the June 21, 2022 165 most highly regarded Affordable Housing developer on Long Island . Receiving numerous rewards and has successfully developed and in the process of developing over developments around the east end . So we hope you will approve this change of zoning on this property, and thank you . MR . NICHOLAS DEEGAN : Hi . Nicholas Deegan from Mattituck . And good evening, Ladies and Gentlemen, and thank you for all the hard work that you do . And this is an issue, but I do support the project . I think it ' s a golden opportunity and should be proud to get the housing for the workforce and the people in town . Back in 2011 . ( Inaudible ) I used to say, we need more young people to come back to Town . And support economic activity . For the entrepreneurs of this next generation . We send them to get educated and then we don ' t -- we have no place for them to live . So we should be working for Affordable Housing and workforce June 21, 2022 166 housing . So I think this is a great opportunity . Nothing is ever perfect, but the thing is , you got to manage it . You manage it . Where I grew up ( inaudible ) we walked everywhere . Probably about 15 or 16 when we first got a motor car . So then another year, we got a motorcycle, but we did walk a lot . Going to church . To everything . So if I have to drive two miles into the situation here and say oh, people can ' t be living that far from the post office , people manage . I hope the Town Board can see this and move with the direction of it . You people we already know that live here in the Town . Thank you all . Thank you for ( inaudible ) . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . MS . LISA SANNINO : Hi . Lisa Sannino, Cutchogue . All right . I am going to be very brief . I am all for Affordable Housing . I own a local business . Most importantly . I also have adult children living with me . So June 21, 2022 167 I know first-hand the need for this . But with that being said, as I listened probably about 4 hours ago, about everyone taking about preserving land, saving the trees , quality of life and so on . So my concerns are just for setting a precedence for zone changes . And also -- like which problem are we solving for? Affordable Housing, yes . But is there a mechanism to guarantee that the residents actually work locally . That ' s it . Thank you . Have a good night . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I will take one from Zoom and then I will get to you . MS . SALLY KAHN : Hi . My name is Sally Kahn . A lot of interesting things have been said tonight, and particularly about preserving our community and preserving what we have . You know, every place I got, I see new and new houses being built . Everybody knows that everybody wants to live here and come out to the North Fork . And our real estate values are just going up and June 21, 2022 168 up and up . And we have lots of millionaires coming out here trying to do all their mic-mansions and their hotels . Look one of the reasons why real estate values are so high is not only because we ' re very desirable , is because in the past we chose to preserve lots of land . And we are still preserving lots of lands . Can we not for the future take some of that agricultural land and invest it in our people . They are the true people who are our community . Thank you . MS . ELLEN NEFF : Members of the Board and members of the community . Time was on my side . I wanted to live here the first time I ever came here , but it was at a time where I couldn ' t afford to buy a house . I would also would watch over the years people like my two children who are now approaching 50 , they own houses . One of them in the Hamlet of Stivenson Upstate and the other one in Washington State, but not here . I learned a lot from the June 21, 2022 169 opposition voices here tonight . And it also talked -- it taught me some of the strengths of what have gone on in this Town -- there are those quadrants of land that are suitable for farming and people who have for generations protected that -- that process . And that the Town has not just lovers of conservation and scenic beauty and our waters , but our farming . I learned a lot . But the person who spoke about the balance -- incidentally, the Town has never thought about Affordable Housing in my recent times . Look at the houses that the Town supported and were built, that have turned into $500 , 000 . You know, we didn ' t think of it as long term. But I was a renter before I was a homeowner . And I know that when you have a house -- I also sold real estate briefly . Thank God only briefly . You ' re talking to the person who has lived in this house . That upstairs -- for 10 years or 20 years and they don ' t know yet that I was sent there because June 21, 2022 170 the homeowner wants to sell the house . And that has happened to many, many people here . So to secure a housing for a renter is huge . And I think that this project is maybe not -- it ' s certainly not the perfect project but it is a project where a lot of thought has gone into it and certainly does deserve advancing to the next stage of working out all the details . I am in favor of this project . But I have learned from the people that spoke in opposition, there is lot of things and you ' re faced with huge work, to you know, spread the path for the future of the Town of Southold . Thank you for your attention and thank you for your work . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Can you state your name for the record? MS . ELLEN NEFF : I am sorry . Ellen Neff, Greenport . I also serve for more than a dozen years on the Greenport ZBA and numerous other Town Village entities . So this is a Town that I love . And I hope to see -- it ' s a major June 21, 2022 171 ingredient to survive in 10 , 20 and 30 years . And there is a lot that is pulling us and makes us unrecognizable . So good luck . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you . MR . NICK KRUPSKI : Good evening, again . Nick Krupski , Cutchogue . Any time a developer shows us with this kind of entourage , wearing those kinds of suits , you know this Town is in for a challenge . Obviously they planted a number of people in here today to discuss this issue in favor of it . And certainly every one here did speak from the heart . And I can appreciate the fact that we certainly need Affordable Housing . And there is nothing wrong with speaking from the heart but when it comes to making a decision as elected officials , you have to deal with facts . Not the feeling of a need for something that we need . We certainly need something . I am not disputing that at all . As Gail Wickham said, we need it . June 21, 2022 172 It has to be done . So I am here to speak against the zone change that would lead to the apartment housing at the project named Cutchogue Woods . A project that would ultimately destroy the woods in Cutchogue . As others have said before me and I will keep this part brief, the project is not within the Hamlet . It lacks walking distance to anything . Lacks public transportation . Again, you ' re hearing a lot of arguments as to why this matters . That is just the facts . Do you want a meaningful Affordable Housing project and not just a profitable development project at a site that it shouldn ' t be at? It is at a site that is environmentally sensitive . I know the consulting firms and attorneys said its not but as someone with a Bachelors in Geology Environmental Science and a Masters in Biology, who currently works in groundwater, I can tell you this is a very environmentally sensitive area . The water has a pumping station almost June 21, 2022 173 touching this property . If you don ' t think that they ' re going to be pumping more of that groundwater because of this development right there, that is just a ridiculous statement to me . The Board and developers cannot guarantee that locals will get the housing . Apart from a zone change, which is an enormous issue, they ' re using Southold ' s very real Affordable Housing issue as a trojan horse to force through a project that doesn ' t belong here and won ' t even move the needle on this project . We need housing . Not rental apartments . This is a band-aid at best . We need real solutions to help our hard working class and own here . Not force them into rentals that don ' t fit the community that they work and live in . Apartments keep poor people poor . People need to own houses . So if we ' re going to focus on Affordable Housing, it should be housing that can grow equity in . Earlier the developer talked about 8 people that were able to move out of the cottages , June 21, 2022 174 which is a very good affordable option . Those people were able to move out of the cottages because they were saving their money by paying towards a mortgage . Granted they weren ' t getting the same equity as everyone else, but they weren ' t paying this developer rent . And that is why they were able to move out . These people are not going to be able to move out . Southold Town Board has stood up to developers looking to make money before and they need to do that again . Anyone who plans to be in favor of environmental protection or ( inaudible ) should probably get a new tag line if they support this . And finally, I just want to leave you with this thought again, if we can not guarantee that young hardworking Southold residents can live in these solely, who work for the police department, who volunteer for the fire department, the rotary, any number of these organizations , then why are we even having this conversation? We ' re June 21, 2022 175 going to bring in more people just as the last apartments did . They ' re going to raise school taxes . It ' s going to raise the need for larger police force . So in essence, our taxes are going up and we ' re not keeping our residents here . So I am not sure why we ' re having this conversation . Thank you very much . MS . CONNIE LOSANDRO : Hi . I am Connie Losandro . And I guess I am an outsider . I live in Baiting Hollow . I own a home . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : How did you get in? MS . CONNIE LOSANDRO : Well , I also have roots -- had them in Southold . My daughter and son-in-law had a home here in Southold for 22 years . Just down the block from here as a matter of fact . And a developer came in and was building a boutique hotel . A lot of controversy with it . It was ultimately approved . Their house was sitting at the end of their private drive and a sewage treatment plant was going to go on their June 21, 2022 176 property line . So obviously they were not happy about it . The developer made an offer to them. As much as I tried to talk them out of it, my only daughter, I certainly didn ' t want to see her leaving the area . They ultimately took the offer and they moved out of Southold . They have been living with me for a year . And because they couldn ' t afford to buy another home in the Town of Southold, they really wanted to stay . They lived here . My daughter was a general manager in one of the boutiques in Mattituck . Loves the community . They ' re forced to move out of Town . So my only daughter is moving, reluctant to South Carolina because it ' s affordable . And that is something that we need to stop . Whether it is a family that is owning homes or rentals . And I can ' t tell you -- I have been -- I am a huge advocate for Affordable Housing . I have done it for over 40 years . I have had the pleasure of working with Dave Gallo and Georgica Green . I actually brought June 21, 2022 177 him to the Town of Riverhead . And Riverhead has taken on Affordable Housing . We certainly got our fair share . And the other towns surrounding us also . We all need Affordable Housing . These are our kids that need to stay their families . I am sure you all got kids . You don ' t want them leasing the town . It ' s a horrible feeling . Trust me . So I have to make the decision now, do I stay or do I follow? I have lived in Long Island all my life . So we need to look at it . I support this project . Is it the best place? Maybe not . And if it ' s not, then you know what , let ' s try to find solutions . And because let ' s face it, any kind of change is difficult . But change is progress . And we have to go with the times . There is changes with laws . It happens all the time . Whether it be a zoning law . Whether it be a code enforcement law . I don ' t care what kind of law . You go with the times . And right now, we have a housing crisis June 21, 2022 178 in our country . The numbers just came out this past week, HUD set the area median income at $ 144 , 600 for Nassau and Suffolk Counties . That is astronomical . Never in my life time did I think those numbers would get so high . Here in Southold it ' s even high . So it ' s difficult to be an elected official . I know . But sometimes you have to bite the bullet and do what ' s right . Do you want to make a precedent , no, not necessarily . But you have to look at things very closely and objectively, yes . You don ' t want to make it personal . There is ways to do it . And solutions can be found if you want them to be found . So I applaud you . It ' s a tough job . I don ' t envy all of you . I work closely with the elected officials in the Town of Riverhead . We were going to follow suit what Southold did with your Housing Advisory Commission and we implemented one for the Town of Riverhead, which they have asked me to be Chair of, which I probably will be June 21, 2022 179 sorry I took it . But you know -- and also being the President of the Riverhead Chamber of Commerce, I know how it goes hand and hand . Businesses are screaming at us constantly . We can ' t get employees . Because there is no place for the employees to live . And they can ' t travel from out from the Hampton ' s or what have you . It ' s very, very hard . Everything goes together . It ' s employees . It ' s businesses . It ' s families . It ' s housing . It ' s all one . So we need to keep everything moving forward and a positive note . And good luck to you guys . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : We have someone on Zoom . MS . CATHY DEMORATO : Hi , it ' s Cathy Demorato . I am the Director of Advocacy Support and Transformation . Happy to be here today . I am first and foremost , I want to thank Rona Smith for her vision and her commitment to improving our community . I was just listening . I don ' t have any prepared remarks but I do June 21, 2022 180 want to comment on something we ' re seeing at CAST every day . Every single day, community members walk through our door with housing issues . Either they need help with rent, but more often than not , they ' re looking for Affordable Housing . And these are mostly working members of our community . They ' re working in the service sectors primarily . We do what we can . We look in the newspaper . We look online . We call everyone we know . More often than not , we have to tell them, I am sorry, but we can ' t help you . They make a decision to either leave the area . They ' re moving to Riverhead, the Hampton Bays , Carolina ' s , Florida, Texas . Leaving a place where they have lived for many, many year where their children are in school . Where they had their roots . Where they had jobs that they enjoyed . They ' re leaving a community they love . The other option, which hasn ' t been mentioned, they move to inadequate and unsafe housing . And this June 21, 2022 181 is something that we should all be concerned about . People are living in unsafe and unhealthy conditions . This reflects on us as a community and it ' s often a tragedy waiting to happen . The other thing we see every day, CAST, employers calling us saying we need workers to help in our businesses . The growth in the community is wonderful ways . We have so many new businesses nut that requires workers . And people can ' t afford to live here and work here . So to solve both of these problems , we really need smart planning for Affordable Housing . And I am going to respectfully request that you consider supporting Cutchogue Woods and any zoning change . And to embark on thoughtful planning . And for the future , I know it ' s not an easy thing to solve . And I know there are many considerations . And I am not claiming to be a housing expert or land expert, but the fact is , I see every day many, many people who have to move away from a June 21, 2022 182 community they love . And more people moving into unsafe conditions and many employers who are unable to fill jobs . So I just wanted to share what I see at CAST . And the problems growing . I have seen it grow over the last five years . And I wish I had answers but I would like you to seriously consider supporting this project and other projects that will help the people in our community who are so valuable to our economy . And to everything that makes this community special . Thank you . MS . JULIA ROBBINS : Hi . I am Julia Robbins . Full disclosure . I am a Trustee for the Village of Greenport . I live in the Village . I have been involved with Affordable Housing for about 5 or 6 months now . And I just want to read a very brief statement because so many people have spoken so eloquently and really -- what I wanted to say tonight . But I am going to read this statement that I wrote and I sent this out as a message as many people as June 21, 2022 183 possible, to encourage to come and speak at this hearing . There is a desperate need for rental housing in the Town . As of today, there are no year-round rentals available in Southold Town and the Village of Greenport . None . The Town needs a workforce to support its infrastructure . Teachers , construction workers , first responders . Service workers in many different industries . The cost of home ownership has become virtually impossible for most . Rona Smith and Dave Gallo brought a wealth of experience to this project . Georgica Green Ventures has been recognized for building award winning housing in the Town of Southampton and East Hampton . The Town should welcome the team of Smith and Gallo and recommend the zoning change necessary for this desperate needed project . The Town should do everything in its power to support Cutchogue Woods and properties like it . We need security . We need housing security in Southold . Thank you . Thank June 21, 2022 184 you for your services . MS . MARINA DELUCA: I would just ask that the Board keep this public -- the Public Hearing open for written comment for the next two weeks . That ' s all . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I was going to ask the Board to consider adjourning the hearing and keep it open for both written comments and public comments . I have a lot of questions . It ' s just so late in the evening . I just don ' t think now is the time to -- if the Board will indulge me, maybe we can do this in two weeks . Drill done some of the facts . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : That is what I was going to suggest to . We will have another hearing . We have been here since 9 : 00 A .M . MR . DAVE GALLO : Would you mind if I just make a closing statement . I will be very quick . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Please be succinct . June 21, 2022 185 MR . DAVE GALLO : I will . Thank you Supervisor, Town Board for your gratuitous and your patience to allow everyone to get up and speak and also to allow Rona and I and our team to present . I am a Libra . I like balance . I will tell you that we have really tried to do that here . Some of the concerns that I have heard tonight ( inaudible ) for bringing together their concerns and I think we can work with everyone, as we have in the community . We have heard am lot of it . We tried to create a buffer . We tried to make sure that the view that is there today will be here in 100 years . And perhaps we can work with the Town Attorney and come up with covenants and restrictions . So there is no loss in that buffer . And that scenic route remains . 400 of the site will remain open space . And we can still get achievable quality Affordable Housing . So I will leave you with this wing thought . As we ' re committed to this process and to working with June 21, 2022 186 everyone here and the community . And if we are allowed back, we will continue to ask that the Town moves this project forward to the Planning process , and thank you once again for hearing us this evening . Good night for now . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Anybody left on this Public Hearing before we move on to the next? (No Response ) . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Can I get a motion to adj0unr the Public Hearing? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I will make a motion to adjourn the Public Hearing to the next meeting . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Second . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in favor? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye . COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye . June 21, 2022 187 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * VIDEO CONFERENCING . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Resolution 474 , WHEREAS , there has been presented to the Town Board of the Town of Southold, Suffolk County, New York, on the 24th day of May, 2022 , a need for the use of video conference technology to increase public participation and; WHEREAS , it has been presented a Local Law entitled "A Local Law Authorizing the Town Board and Public Bodies of the Town to Participate in Meetings via Video conference . " RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold will hold a public hearing on the aforesaid Local Law . I am just going to read a summary right now . The proposed Local Law for which a Public Hearing is being held this evening, proposes to notify the Town and its citizens of meetings via videoconferencing platform. The purpose of the Local Law is to abide by the directives and requirements set forth in June 21, 2022 188 the State of New York ' s recently amended Public Officer ' s Law, 103-a . Specifically, if adopted, the Local Law would allow for the Town allowing video conferencing policies , allowing participation in meetings virtually provided there is a quorum of the public body physically present at public physical locations . The full text of the proposed Local Law is available for review in the Town Clerk ' s Office and on the Town ' s website . And in this folder here, I have a copy of the affidavit that it was published in the Suffolk Times . I have a copy of the legal notice . It was posted on the Board outside . An affidavit signed by our Town Clerk here , affirming that it was posted . A copy of the legal notice itself . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I am sure I know the answer to this , but I will ask anyway . Would anybody like to comment on this particular -- MR . NICK KRUPSKI : Nick Krupski , June 21, 2022 189 Cutchogue . Have the members of the Board read the New York State legislation amendments -- SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Yes . MR . NICK KRUPSKI : In April 19th? Okay . So you are aware of the physical presence by members? SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Yes . Just making sure . Thank you . COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I make a motion to close the Public Hearing . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Second . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in favor? COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye . COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye . COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye . COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye . SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye . (Whereupon, the Public Hearing ' s concluded at this time . ) June 21, 2022 190 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I , JESSICA DILALLO, a Court Reporter and Notary Public, for and within the State of New York, do hereby certify : THAT the above and foregoing contains a true and correct transcription of the Meeting held on June 21 , 2022 , via videoconference , and were transcribed by me . I further certify that I am not related to any of the parties to this action by blood or by marriage and that I am in no way interested in the outcome of this matter . IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 14th day of July, 2022 . 1 I /-C' Jessica DiLallo