HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-06/07/2022 PH 1
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK : STATE OF NEW YORK
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
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TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING
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Southold, New York
June 7 , 2022
7 : 00 P . M .
B E F 0 R E :
SCOTT A . RUSSELL, SUPERVISOR
LOUISA P . EVANS , JUSTICE
JILL DOHERTY, COUNCILWOMAN
BRIAN 0 . MEALY, COUNCILMAN
GREG DOROSKI , COUNCILMAN
SARAH E . NAPPA, COUNCILWOMAN
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LOCAL LAW COZ 38-7-7 . 1
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I would
like to invite anybody who would like to
address the Town Board on this particular
Local Law?
MR . HOWARD WISLER : Good evening,
Ladies and Gentlemen . My name is Howard
Wisler . President of the Cleaves
Condominium. On behalf of Cleaves
Community, we want to express our thanks to
you and the Planning Department for your
tireless efforts to redevelop the zoning for
the 2835 Shipyard property, Marine II to
split zone of R-80 and RR . We certainly
appreciate the Town ' s consideration for the
surrounding area . Especially Cleaves Point
when it was considering the zoning change .
We at Cleaves Point find the R-80 Zoning
portion to permit a small number of small
family homes a positive result of the zoning
change . While we do not object to the RR
zone that could house a small hotel , it ' s
not our first choice for the property;
however, we understand the Town ' s
sensitivity and economic value of the
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property that they have to take into account
of the rezoning . That said, we ask both the
Town Board and the Planning Department to
both consider the following in your future
plan . That there be a significant buffer
between the property and the surrounding
properties . And that they require on all
sides , except the south side . That serious
consideration should be allowed for entry
into the property from both Shipyard Lane
and Gillette Drive . As neither road is
large enough, sufficiently stable to handle
potentially private and commercial traffic .
In addition, both roads are on commercial
roads . And furthermore, would benefit if
emergency vehicles would have access to the
property from both roads . The intensity of
any project, we hope, should be kept to a
minimum. And we hope that any project will
have concern for the surrounding areas ,
including potential adverse environmental
consequences . We do not have any objection
to non-commercial boat and docking
facilities that may be used by single-family
homeowners or hotel guests . We do not ;
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however, support any of the following uses
for the property . Affordable or workforce
housing . Wind turbines , wineries , a free
standing restaurant, conference facilities
or a tourist camp . For these reasons , we
urge the Town Board to vote in favor zoning
the property as stated in its resolution in
March 2022 to keep the foregoing
considerations in mind . We ask that the
Town Board ensure that the present property
owner maintain and at least secure the
property as it is in disrepair and an
attractive nuisance for many years . Thank
you for giving us the opportunity to submit
out comments .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you
very much .
MS . ELLEN ZIMMERMAN : My name is
Ellen Zimmerman . I am the President of the
East Marion Community Association . On
behalf of the residents of East Marion, I
would like to thank the Board for taking
steps to change the zoning, reduce the
potential develop density of the overall
factory property at the end of Shipyard
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Lane . This is a necessary step to ensure
the preservation of the neighborhood and
surrounding people and of East Marion in
general . It was a misconceived proposal to
construct a grandiose ( inaudible ) on this
site that included 114 room transit hotel .
72 seat restaurant . A 99 seat cafeteria and
bar that spurred the East Marion Community
Association in 2007 . We will continue to
fight to protect East Marion ' s character and
agricultural heritage and enhance the
community life as a hamlet . We thank you
for paying attention to our needs and we
support the rezoning of the property .
MS . CANDY HARPER : My name is Candy
Harper and I live a few houses away from the
property on the bay in East Marion, to the
east . I applaud the work that is going into
the zoning, but when I read what the
( inaudible ) says , it ' s very, very amorphous .
It really, really worries me . It seems that
only two things that are really -- that is a
winery or a music that could be heard over
the ( inaudible ) property . And I also
appreciate that in the zoning it says that
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we have to take into consideration the
community and the environment . But there is
so little guidance in the zoning about what
RR can be and what kind of mitigating
measures there are, that I wonder if this
zoning is setting us up for enough time,
when it just took years and the project
didn ' t get built . And that is my biggest
concern . It ' s really hard to parse the
language, RR . Thanks .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Ma ' am, let
me clarify . For the code, RR is fairly
restrictive . In order to determine the
calculation on how ( inaudible ) there is
actually called a bulk scheduling there . So
it would require 4 , 000 square feet of land
for every one room or 6, 000 square feet of
land for every room you want, if you want to
do a sewer system and ( inaudible ) water .
Under the zoning that is proposed and under
the buildable proposal , don ' t forget a lot
of that proposal isn ' t buildable . You can ' t
count that towards a building yield .
MS . CANDY HARPER : So it ' s only
buildable --
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SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : When you
look at that proposal , for the RR Zoning,
when you look at that six, you have to
remove all the land that is not buildable .
So you ' re taking that six acres and you ' re
reducing it pretty substantially . By our
calculations , if you have public sewer and
public water, you would have to build up to
44 rooms , but it ' s a max room size of 600
square feet or without heat or public water
or sewer, you can only build 29 rooms .
Again, maxxed out at 600 square feet . In
order to reach that max, you can ' t build a
restaurant or anything .
Who else would like to address the
Town Board on this particular Public
Hearing?
MR . JOHN COSTELLO : My name is John
A. Costello . I know over the years and
probably the last 40 , 50 , 60 years , all my
life, everybody is looking to maintain a
working waterfront . Docks on the water . If
you ' re going to, my suggestion, go slow .
It ' s only a few parcels of land in the
entire Town of Southold that you can promote
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and develop a working waterfront . Claming
and the oyster business , they ' re being
chased out of Greenport . Big condominium
units . A lot of cars . And all the jobs
gone . Shipyard, gone . They are all gone .
We don ' t even have the fishing boats in
Greenport . Some of the people that are
employed at Northfork Welding, make -- need
more space . They need to bring fishing
boats back into port . They can ' t . No place
to go . Greenport Railroad Dock, gone .
There used to be a couple of spots . There
used to be a gravel business . The
Corrazines (phonetic) , paving roads into the
town . Gone . And it will probably remain
gone . That is the oil companies . We know
we ' re going to try to get rid of as many as
possible . Where would the Town Board --
where, would they replace some of this
disappearing areas of working waterfront? I
think that is an important planning tool and
seems to be missing here . Where would you
put it? I am just asking . And the number
of jobs developed . That would be important .
I am in the business of waterfront business
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and I will tell you, I am being chased a
little bits . Can ' t find spots . I am not
the only marine contractor . I take it that
these are people and part of the
Constitution . Southold . And I think we
ought to try to think about it . Thank you .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Ma ' am, we
will go to you next .
MS . JEN HARTNEGAL : Good evening,
Supervisor and Members of the Town Board .
My name is Jen Hartnegal and I am speaking
on behalf of the group for the east end .
Thank you for reviewing the zoning on the
property and for proactively trying to
create something that is more suitable then
the M II Zoning Category . And we appreciate
the Town Board fulfilling one of the
objectives of the Comp Plan by doing so .
This type of action is exactly what is
needed to ultimately create and solidify the
publics vision for the Town as outlined in
the Comp Plan . As you know, one of the
previous speaks had just mentioned, the
zoning category can result in some pretty
disastrous development applications . And we
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have seen them come before you . The density
and the intensity of uses , it would be
completely inappropriate for this piece of
property . Therefore, we support the need
for reduction in intensity for the density
of these locations . However, we too are
very concerned about the front portion that
is slated for RR . Concerned that whatever
reduction that we ' re taking away from the
back is not enough to mitigate or negate
what could take place on that portion .
Again, as you just noted Supervisor, you
could have 40 something units in a hotel
there . It could be a mini enclave east and
the site is very constrained . It ' s
surrounded by the residential uses . Narrow
street . And it leads down into 25A. It ' s a
serious traffic issue there . So when you
look at the uses permitted in the RR versus
the M II , some of the more intensive uses ,
like that hotel are still there . And to
John ' s point, he just mentioned, some of the
maritime uses working waterfront are not
permitted in the RR . So I know there is a
give and take here, but are you really
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gaining anything with the RR Zoning? I
don ' t know, but I think you should be really
hesitant with the Zoning . I guess the
ultimate point that I am trying to make, it
seems like the RR was maybe chosen as a
default because there was nothing compatible
with the code . And the Comp Plan does call
out the possibility of creating new zoning
that would create a better solution for this
parcel and other parcels throughout the
Town . So at this point, we would like you
to consider -- again, our main concern that
you could really have a significant
development proposal there that would create
community character and environmental
impacts . So you know, I think we would like
you to consider that and pause for a moment
and reach back out to the community and see
if there is anything that could be addressed
here . Thank you . I appreciate the
opportunity for commenting tonight . Thanks .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I just
have to say something . I promise
( inaudible ) get out of my habits to
responding to people . I was going to
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respond to John, but I bit my tongue . The
idea that it ' s going to be equated to the
enclaves is , I find, is a little
disingenuous . A scare tactic . The
enclaves , the Hamlet Business Zone, it
allows for a lot of uses and is a much
bigger property . It can only maximize the
44 unit scenario -- first of all , you need
access to public sewer, that is a big if .
Good luck finding it . Secondly, if you ' re
going to maximize the 44 , you have given up
all other uses because you have consumed all
of the bulk schedule which -- and you know
how that works . You have to substantially
restrict that hotel size if you want to get
any of those uses . It ' s no where near what
would be permitted at the enclaves . No
retail . None of those things .
MS . JEN HARTNEGAL : Okay . I
appreciate that . I don ' t want to be
combative or out of line . This is not a
scare tactic . I mean, it ' s still a hotel .
Residential street that is going to lead to
25A and cause traffic problems . There is a
sewer system there too with a huge hotel . A
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septic that can go right into the bay there .
So again, that intensity, it still concerns
US . If it ' s , 20 , 30 , 40 units . I
understand your point .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Compared
to the 115 rooms?
MS . JEN HARTNEGAL : If you adopt the
RR Zoning .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : The
current versus the 115 and the marina, the
( inaudible ) .
MS . JEN HARTNEGAL : I am not saying
that the RR is worse than the R-80 . I am
saying that the RR might not be the best
that you could create for this site . That
is my point . Please be aware that this can
be problematic . That is our point . Thank
you .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you .
Sir?
MR . EDWARD BUTT : Good evening,
Supervisor Russell and the Members of the
Board of the Town of Southold . Thank you
for the opportunity this evening for me to
speak . My name is Edward Butt . I am the
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Architect for the Developer of this
property, Co-owner of this property, FTS
Holdings . Just to wanted to take the
opportunity for a second because we have
taken some time looking at the Zoning for
this piece of property as well as , the
proposed layout of the property that is
there . To give you a little history, I was
actually the architect back in 2003 when
this project first started . I am a little
older . A little gray haired and probably
more hair fell out of my head, but I am
still here . My client is gone but the
current developer approached me because of
my long experience with the amount of the
effort that went into the environmental
impact statements and all of the studies
that were done prior to this for many, many
years . Knowing what I know about the
property and its history, we are concerned
as a group to create a residential
development at this location . We are trying
to create a communication between ourselves
and some of the community boards .
Specifically East Marion Association . And
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actually had a tentative meeting with the
east end -- with the east end people, a Mr .
Bob DeLuca . And that was about a week and a
half ago . And really got a sense of what
some of the immediate and pre-concerns are
about this property . We looked at this and
we have -- still in the process of analyzing
the zoning that is being proposed at this
point . But would like to have the
opportunity -- we have been speaking with
our attorneys , Mr . Losquadro and we have --
would like to have the opportunity to sit
with this Board in a work session what we ' re
proposing as well as communicate that with
the local community people as well . To try
and achieve a development here that makes
sense for everyone involved, including the
Town of Southold . I think it ' s our desire
not to come in and pretend that we ' re steam
rolling or trying to create something that
was previously proposed . The fact that
we ' re trying to create a residential
development here with a marina . And with
actually public access at least for the
beach that is there . And with some other
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potential public access on the Shipyard Lane
side . Other than that, we would really
appreciate the Board would consider creating
some form of a worksession that we could
present our application to you so that you
understand what we are and where we ' re
looking to go, and hopefully create a dialog
with the local residents as well . So that
we can achieve something that maybe everyone
is happy with . And maybe we could knock
this giant behemoth down and have a nicely
developed piece of property for all to enjoy
and see . So that is really our presentation
that we would like to really do with the
Board and the community . And ( inaudible )
community . A lot of time and effort was put
into what we have gotten to this point . And
I think with all the efforts that have been
put forth by this Board over the years , to
get to this point, I think it would be fair
for all to hear us out, what we have to say
and offer to this application .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I am
actually a member of the East Marion
Association . There was a group that had met
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with you?
MR . EDWARD BUTT : It was a on Zoom
yesterday actually .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : How was
their response? I mean, I haven ' t really
gotten any input from --
MR . EDWARD BUTT : Well , again, I sort
of explained a similar situation to what we
have -- which we ' re looking to create some
sort of public integration into the beach
front . We ' re looking to not make this a
public arena . A private marina . So that it
mitigates a lot of the boat traffic . We
would have some boat taxi available le for
the residents themselves . So again, making
some of the on-road traffic problems a
consideration or a concern . So that if
people wanted to go into Greenport, they
could have an access way from a private boat
to take there or maybe anywhere else, maybe
even Sheltar Island . So we ' re looking at
different ways to cut down on traffic . To
keep the area private and quiet, which I
think is the benefit of the community and
also as far as the usage of public utility .
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So that is really where we are right now .
We have more, but I would like to formally
present the rest of this application to the
Board themselves . Again, thank you for your
time .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you .
Who else would like to address the Town
Board on this particular proposal?
MR . PATRICK BRENNAN : Good evening,
Supervisor Russell and members . My name is
Patrick Brennan . I live in Greenport . I
would just like the Board to be cautious
about producing opportunities for marine
land use opportunities . I understand that
the Southold may need housing . I would
suggest that we don ' t need more R-80 and
Resort Residential properties . What we do
need is diversity of industry, employment
opportunities . Not just agriculture and
tourism. Marine is an important part of
Southold . We need to maintain and preserve
our own recreational and marine industry .
Waterfront properties , I would suggest are
just as important as agriculture, farm, open
spaces . So please consider my comments and
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just move cautiously . This is a big step
and I think it ' s -- some of them we may look
back and regret in the future . Thank you .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thank you .
Who else would like to address the Town
Board on this particular proposal?
(No Response ) .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Motion to
close?
COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I make a
motion to close the Public Hearing held open
subject to written .
COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : I will
second that .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in
favor?
COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye .
What we did, we closed the Public
Hearing for public comment and held it open
for written comment . Anything you want to
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submit, please feel free to do that .
AUDIENCE MEMBER : How long?
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Two weeks .
AUDIENCE MEMBER : And you will be
voting in two weeks?
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : It ' s up to
the Board if they want to take action in two
weeks but certainly we could . We always
wait two weeks before we vote on anything
that is pretty substantial . Particularly if
we get public input . It depends on all
sorts of factors . We will do that .
( Public Hearing Concluded . )
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I am going
to ask that if anybody would like to address
the Town Board on any issue, to please feel
free?
MR . RICHARD JORDAN : Richard Jordan .
I live in Cutchogue, and I wanted to bring
officially to the Town Board ' s attention a
situation that developed last Fall as a
result of action taken by Cutchogue New
Suffolk Park District . Specifically they
eliminated all parking in the Dave Ellison
Park and they removed the driveway into the
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parking and have locked the gate since a
week or the second week after Labor Day .
There was never any notice to the public
that such was going to occur . The Park
District never distributed minutes of any of
its meeting of last year or year before .
Never created access for them this year .
There have been three meetings with the Park
District so far this year . So far, many
upset people expressed how they were
affected . Disabled people cannot get into
the park now . Had been a handicapped
parking spot, at least for the last 25
years . I have lived across the street from
the Park since ' 85 . There has always been
parking in that park . There is a ramp down
to the beach . It ' s not handicapped
accessible . So what has happened over a
number of years , had called the
Commissioner ' s because I had seen people in
their wheelchair and they couldn ' t look out
into the Bay and then they would have
someone trim some of the stuff so they could
enjoy looking out into the water . After the
pandemic, they don ' t even have that any
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more . I know that the Park District is a
separate entity . They don ' t ( inaudible ) to
adjust this . At the last meeting that was
last week, the Commissioner said he was
responsible for the decision . That they
wanted it to be more grasslike . And that he
had left several messages on the phone for
an engineer who is supposedly ADA Awareness .
He ' s going to wait to hear from that person .
The summer is hear . I know a number of
people that live nearby who are in their
late 70 ' s . Upper 80 ' s , who can ' t . There is
only two walkways into the park . One is at
the end of Pequash and its got it going over
roots and rocks . No one there could get up
to go through that . The other one is quite
bit a distance . I shared with the Park
Commission the specific language of ADA and
the Guidelines that the Justice Department
issued following the 2000 ADA amendments .
And it specifically refers to any amendments
of "vehicular way . " A 20 foot driveway is a
vehicular way . It was removed . Taking an
action they have to consider if they
adversely affected disabled access . It goes
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without saying they did . I have talked to
the US Justice Department . I talked to two
other disability legal groups . I didn ' t ask
them to initiate any action . I asked them
the US Justice Department and the ADA, and I
said I am not filing a complaint yet . I am
a retired lawyer . At one time in my life, I
used to defend corporation cases on
discrimination . And I ( inaudible ) this ,
just based on my own personal experience,
you can get a government and put it on the
shelf or you can get some young attorney and
they want to make a name for them self and
turn this into far more than what we want .
There is liability for violating ADA .
$75 , 000 for the first violation . $ 150 , 000
for subsequent . Is the subsequent
continuing day by day? Who knows . The
commissioners are all unpaid elected
volunteers . They don ' t want the fines .
They want to drive the taxes up . They just
to restore what existed before . I spoke to
Heather Lanza after the first meeting . At
the end of February I spoke to her . Because
one of the commissioner ' s alleged that they
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had spoke to her . And it sounded puzzling
to me . Heather -- I know from Heather from
years ago from another situation . And
Heather told me there is no ( inaudible ) for
them to pave over -- there used to be
parking . Put some grassy . That simply they
could unlock the gate and let people park
where they used to park . No additional
cost . That was raised at last weeks meeting
and the commissioners refused . What I am
requesting is that the Town consider, have
the Town Attorney advise you on what the
legal options you have versus the Park
District . Can the Town sue the Park
District to reverse --
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : You and I
have talked a lot . And you know the Park
District is created by New York State and
not by Southold Town . The ultimate
authority would be New York State . So I
would caution . I appreciate what the
Director of Planning had said to you and its
true on a basis of creating parking, but
with regard to ADA compliance, you would
probably -- probably best be talking to an
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attorney or yourself researching . Because
on the ADA, I have talked to Michael Collins
about and he had said if you ' re looking for
ADA access , you might have to do some adding
there . Down by the water .
MR . RICHARD JORDAN : That would be to
bring a wheelchair in . In the 2010
amendments they eliminated the vehicular
way . And individuals can bring their own
lawsuits .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Yep .
MR . RICHARD JORDAN : I would suggest
that the Town ' s counsel may fit that . The
Town of Southold could initiate something
against the Park District, but I am not
certain . So I am just asking that be
considered . That the Town Attorney advise .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : I did find
that schematic that they were going to put
parking by the gate . I couldn ' t find him
the other day -- that ' s a 50/50 shot of
finding anything on that . So their original
design was to put parking right outside
there . I don ' t know what happened . I don ' t
live in the District anymore . So I don ' t
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want to speculate .
MR . RICHARD JORDAN : Thank you so
much .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Thanks .
Anyone else like to address the Town Board
on any issue?
(No Response ) .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Motion to
adjourn?
COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : I will
make a motion to adjourn .
COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Second .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : All in
favor?
COUNCILMAN GREG DOROSKI : Aye .
COUNCILWOMAN JILL DOHERTY : Aye .
COUNCILMAN BRIAN MEALY : Aye .
JUSTICE LOUISA EVANS : Aye .
COUNCILWOMAN SARAH NAPPA: Aye .
SUPERVISOR SCOTT RUSSELL : Aye .
(Meeting Concluded at 8 : 08 P .M . )
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C E R T I F I C A T I O N
I , JESSICA DILALLO, a Court Reporter
and Notary Public, for and within the State
of New York, do hereby certify :
THAT the above and foregoing contains a
true and correct transcription of the
Meeting held on June 7 , 2022 ,
via videoconference, and were transcribed by
me .
I further certify that I am not
related to any of the parties to this
action by blood or by marriage and that I
am in no way interested in the outcome of
this matter .
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have
hereunto set my hand this 7th day of
June, 2022 .
Jessica DiLallo