HomeMy WebLinkAboutWICKHAM, JOHN TRUSTEES OSVfFQ(�C SUPERVISOR
John M. Bredemeyer, III, President ��. pG SCOTT L.HARRIS
Albert J. Krupski, Jr., Vice President =� yam►
Henry P. Smith y Town Hall
John B. Tuthill 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
William G. Albertson y � ���
Southold, New Fork 11971
Telephone (516) 765-1892
Fax (516) 765-1823 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
December 6, 1993
John Wickham
Main Road
Cutchogue, NY 11935
RE: Wickham Property Cutchogue
Dear Mr. Wickham:
The following action was taken by the Southold Town Board of
Trustees at the regular meeting of December 6, 1993 :
WHEREAS, an offer has been made by John Wickham of Cutchogue to
transfer all right, title and interest to meadow islands held by
him in West Creek, New Suffolk to the Southold Town Trustees in
exchange for Town Trustee lands existing behind his dike at West
Creek, New Suffolk
WHEREAS, our initial research indicates that the Town may
acquire more . land than we transfer and that it may provide more
accessible uses for hunting, fishing and shellfishing for our
residents.
RESOLVED, the Southold Town Trustees support the concept of a
transfer of land with Mr. Wickham subject to the following:
1) Verification of the acreages by licensed survey or
photogrametric method to show the Town Trustees as a net
benefactor in the transfer.
2) Creation of a scale map of the proposed transfer to be used
at the public hearing and by the press.
3) Holding a public hearing to determine the level of public
support for such a transfer.
4) A resolution authoring the Trustee's attorney and President
of the Trustees to effectuate the transfer.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact
this office.
Very truly yours,
n M. Brea e
y r.
President, Board of Trustees
JMB:jmd
United States Soil Riverhead County Center
Department of Conservation Room F-16
Agriculture Service Riverhead, Ne'v York 11901-3398
January 19, 1993
Mr. Albert Krupski, Jr. , Vice President °
Town of Southold Board of Trustees n i p2
P.O. Box 1179ut ,� *�
Southold, New York 11971ou
_
Dear Al:
I have completed the measurement of the areas you identified on the Wickham
property.
1992 aerial photography was only available for area 1 - 4. The rest of the
areas were measured off of the 1984 photography.
As I indicated to you earlier the method used to measure these sites is subject
to a certain degree of error due to the scale of the photography and the tool
used to determine acreage. There may have been some changes in the configuration
of the islands since 1984. Without up to date large scale photography it would be
virtually impossible to identify these changes.
Area # Acres Area # Acres
1 0.4 11 0.1
2 4.6 12 0.2
3 0.2 13 1.1
4 0.2 14 0.4
5 5.8 15 1.2
6 2.9 16 0.07
7 0.1 17 0.9
8 0.1 18 0.07
9 0.3 19 0.1
10 0.07 20 0.9
Sincerely,
QYh 0"�i
Allan S. Connell
District Conservationist
enc.
The Soil Conservation Service SCS-AS-1
is an agency of the - 10-79
Department of Agriculture AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER
SUPERVISOR
TRUSTEES
John M.-Bredemeyer, III, President ate, '�� SCOTT L.HARRIS
Albert J.Krupski,Jr.,Vice President z
Town Hall
Henry R Smith
John B.Tuthill �y • ��� 53095 Main Road
'fJ0 a
William G. Albertson j � �► P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New Fork 11971
Telephone (516) 765-1892
Fax(516) 765-1823 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
January 13, 1993
Suffolk County
Soil Conservation
County Center
Riverhead, -NY 11901
Dear Sirs:
The Southold Town Trustees would request your cooperation on our
behalf in the matter of John Wickham.
We would appreciate a land measurement of both. marsh island's in
West Creek and the open water or canal's behind Mr. Wickham' s
dike as shown on recent aerial photos.
The Southold Town Trustees appreciate this cooperation between
governmental agency.
Sincerely,
Albert J. Krupski, Jr.
Vice-President, Board of Trustees
AJK:jmd
IP
Notes re Wickham's West Farm Behind D' ES 2
Background ou TOWN ni S T j L
This parcel of over 90 acres is owned by John & Anne and Thomas & Gekee Wickham..
It was acquired in several stages but the "Great Meadows" of colonial days stretching from
New Suffolk Lane and Grathwohl Road to West Creek that was acquired 47 years ago
consisted of about 70 acres of salt hay land. In addition there is over 10 acres of upland
which is still wooded and acquired later.
In 1944, with the knowledge of the Trustees, large dikes nearly 10 ft high, 30 ft wide at
the base and 6 ft wide at the crest were built facing West Creek for nearly a mile. They
were built to make agricultural crops possible by protecting them from disastrous high
tides associated with storms such as the 1938 hurricane and the November storm of 1936.
Of the 70 acres of meadow, about 30 acres were of mineral soils. We planted almost all
this area to a wide range of crops including onions, wheat, strawberries, sweet corn,
blueberries, tomatoes, and asparagus, to name a few. Currently, they are primarily
growing asparagus, blueberries and sweet corn. In 1976 we sold the development rights
to these acres to Suffolk County.
The organic soils portion, comprising over 30 acres closer to the dikes and main
drainageways, was more difficult to farm although it was not appreciable lower. During
the 1940s and 50s, we put in a complete system of fresh water canals and drainage ditches
completely replacing the salt water gutters and ponds. We intended to lower the
watertable by pumping down the water in the canals, but in the 1970s when the price of
energy escalated it was decided to give up the plan of pumping and grow crops requiring
a high water table such as cranberries. (This would also strengthen the groundwater
position of New Suffolk).
We now have over two acres of cranberry bogs. The engineering design for these bogs
was provided by SCS; the NY State Department of Agriculture and Markets provided a
modest grant to assist us in getting started, and Cornell Cooperative Extension has also
been a partner in this enterprise. Cranberry harvesting and handling equipment has been
acquired from the last commercial grower on Long Island. Costs so far (not including
land development costs prior to 1987) exceed $60,000 on these two acres.
In doing the engineering design for the cranberry bogs,it became evident that the elevation
of the surface would be 3 inches below normal high water level. Although all of this area
was once salt hay ground or "high marsh" well above high water, the organic soils portion
subsides with use and time.
As we contemplated the high capital costs involved in establishing agricultural enterprises
in this area, it was thought prudent to make sure that there were no adverse restrictions
that might wash away the investment. Accordingly, a quitclaim deed from the Commoners
2
(the successors in title to the original patentees) was acquired and recorded in the 1970s
for that land behind dikes and between high and low water elevations. (During the same
period a rather considerable amount of salt marsh outside the dikes was acquired from the
Commoners, and from others, all in West Creek.)
At this time it was thought best to inform the Trustees what was anticipated and we
requested from them a quitclaim deed. At the insistence of our attorney, we offered
consideration of$500 for it even though only two acres out of some seventy was involved,
and even though those two acres were only 3 inches below the normal high water mark.
It appears to us that the Trustees felt that the consideration should be much greater. We
felt that the Trustees would not even have been aware of the issue if we hadn't come to
them with it. We understand the Trustees have established the practice of giving quitclaim
deeds for consideration of $1.00 to owners of land upon which County spoil was placed
some twenty years ago. Ours is really the reverse of that situation. This land is now
lower than it was and there is thus less gain, rather than more, to the owner.
Over the years we have added to the family holdings of salt marsh in West Creek itself
to the point where we have recorded title to some thirty acres, the most part consisting of
the Meadow Islands between the main channel and the West gutter. We have offered these
to the Town of Southold under the open space program but a small title question still
remains to be resolved. I have retained, at my expense, an attorney to file a bar claim
action on these meadow islands. I could include in this action, at no extra cost, the
organic-soil portion of the land behind the dikes, but I would prefer not to in order to
protect the Trustee's broader interests in the Town.
Why we wish to move ahead but prefer to avoid bar claim action
In our failure to reach agreement with the Trustees, and my preference not to contest this
action in court, we have been put to substantial expense, inconvenience and risk:
In the first place, Southold's wetlands ordinance under which the Trustees operate states
that emergency repairs to existing structures may be made without permit. Yet after
Hurricane Gloria we were required to go the full permit route and even pay the stepped
up fees. It took 18 months (one half hour in the DEC office secured their emergency
permit at no expense).
In the second place, when the Ag District Law came up for review, the Trustees wrote to
the Commissioner DEC suggesting that he-take some of our marsh land out of the District
since the Trustees might have a claim on it. Not only did he do that, he also took another
parcel off-- and his decision is not subject to appeal. As a result, increased taxes to date
have cost me about $1200. In addition, we must pay about $140 per year in fees for the
Individual Commitment and must continue doing so for at least another 5 or 6 years.
3
The Trustees' letter of September 17th refers to the Commoners' interest in this property.
This does not address the point. The Commoners of the Town are in no way involved in
this project nor will they be if we can work out our problems. The fact is that I hold a
recorded deed from the Commoners for precisely the land I am asking the Trustees for a
quitclaim on. If this case goes to ,court, as may well happen, the Trustees will be
defendants, and if our side prevails, as I have every assurance it will, then this will
become a legal precedent setting Commoner's above the Trustee's claims elsewhere in the
Town. Remember also, Commoners came before Trustees in Southold.
I don't want this to happen for I feel that the Trustees have generally done a good job in
protecting our marine fringe. I don't want to see hundreds of miles of intertidal marsh at
risk but apparently the Trustees do not see this risk. There would be nothing to stop the
Commoners from giving confirmatory deeds to vast areas of meadowland. Confirmatory
deeds are not new to the Commoners.
From the time of my first request for a quitclaim about 10 years ago the Trustees have
questioned the consideration I offered. For my part I've always felt that the Trustees, for
reasons stated above, should be glad to give it free to avoid the legal implications, but I
recognized that there must be some consideration. Also because there is such a very small
area below the high water level (our two acres of cranberries) and that only 3 inches
below, it seems surprising that we have not been able to close our differences.
To summarize, we acquired the salt marsh almost 50 years ago. The dikes and
drainageways were built with the acquiescence of the Trustees and under permit and
knowledge of the Trustees. In the process we have converted the entire area to a fresh
water agricultural area, of which about two thirds has already been brought under
cultivation. Taxes have been paid on the whole area all these years and we have improved
it to the extent of hundreds of thousands of dollars at today's prices ($50,000 within the
past three years just for cranberries). We have used it and had possession all these years.
We would like to expand our cranberry operation as a logical and appropriate use of the
organic soils part, but not as long as the Trustees maintain jurisdiction over these areas.
Proposal
We would like to exchange quitclaims for an acre or two of West Creek islands, by which
the Trustees would quit claims on the agricultural land behind dikes. Alternatively, we
would consider a quitclaim deed from the Trustees for a small consideration. As a last
resort, we might have to include the properties in our bar claim action.
September 23, 1991 John Wickham
rf � y §
TRUSTEES
John M.Bredemeyer,III,President Y SUPERVISOR
Henry P. Smith,Vice President SCOTT L.HARRIS
Albert J.Krupski,Jr. y
John L.Bednoski,Jr. Town Hall
John B.Tuthill 53095 Main Road
P.O.Box 1179
Telephone(516)765-1892 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES Southold,New York 11971
Fax(516)765-1823 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
September 17, 1991
John Wickham
Main Road
Cutchogue, NY 11935
Dear Mr. Wickham:
As a result of the September 5, 1991 meeting worksession the
Southold Trustees discussed our position with respect to the
commoners, of which you claim membership.
As a restatement of Trustee policy, we can tell you that the
Southold Town Trustees will not recognize any ownership claim
for underwater lands in this Town which can not prove to the
satisfaction of this Board continuous and legal ownership
preceding October 28, 1676, the date of the Andros Patent.
Our previous offer to you to mutually quitclaim certain lands in
the West Creek area remains operational with, however, the
caveat that you should make every effort to avoid the
unnecessary entanglement of this Board in your personal legal
affairs.
Should the commoners wish to approach this Board on any matter
of mutual interest, we will be glad to set up a joint meeting,
provided a written request in the form of a certified resolution
from your clerk or person(s) with such authority to call such a
meeting is received in the Trustee office.
Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.
Very truly yours,
John M. Bredemeyer, III
President, Board of Trustees
cc: Town Attorney, Harvey Arnoff, Assit. Town Attorney, Matt Kiernan, Supervisor
Harris, Town Board, Town Historian
TRUSTEES _ °
John M.Bredemeyer,III,President U SUPERVISOR
Henry P.Smith,Vice President SCOTT L.HARRIS
Albert J.Kra ski,Jr.
John L.Bednoski,Jr. � � � Town Hall
John B.Tuthill 53095 Main Road
P.O.Box 1179
Telephone(516)765-1892 BOARD OFITOWN TRUSTEES Southold,New York 11971
Fax(516)765-1823 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
TO: Antonia Booth, Town Historian
FROM: John M. Bredemeyer, III
President, Board of Tru
t;41S
RE: Southold "Commoners"
DATE: July 15, 1991
Presently, the Town Trustees are considering entering into
property negotiations with a Southold landowner who claims to be
a "Commoner" in the historical sense.
As we are very concerned with preserving the historical
integrity and Andros Patent empowerment the Town enjoys of our
Board, we are reluctant to enter into negotiations with a
"Commoner" unless we know more about them, their powers and
rights.
We understand that they might have a claim to certain lands
beneath "high water" including mud flats and intertidal areas.
Any information, historical or otherwise, you might have which
would shed light on the "Commoners" and their relation to the
Trustees would be greatly appreciated.
As the negotiation we are considering may have considerable
public benefit to the Town, in addition to forestalling or
eliminating a legal challenge to Trustee lands by a commoner,
may we have your response as soon as possible.
JMB:jmt
cc: Harvey Arnoff, Town Attorney
Matt Kiernan, Assistant Town Attorney
TRUSTEES r
John M.Bredemeyer,III,President SUPERVISOR
Henry P. Smith,Vice President 3 N =Z SCOTT L.HARRIS
Albert J.Krupski,Jr.
John L.Bednoski,Jr. ' Town Ball
IV
John B.Tuthill 53095 Main Road
P.O.Box 1179
Telephone(516)765-1892 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES Southold,New York 11971
Fax(516)765-1823 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
July 15, 1991
John Wickham
Wickham's Fruit Farm
Route 25
Cutchogue, NY 11935
Dear Mr. Wickham:
Thank you for your letter of June 19, 1991. Your letter of that
date, as well as this response and current discussion by the
Board in this matter are considered exempt from the provisions
of the !°sunshine law" as it deals with matters of the Board and
yourself which are of a proprietary nature.
The Board does take very seriously your claim as a "Commoner"
and is presently researching the issue diligently.
Our collective recollection in the matter is very supportive
of your claim, so that we are currently getting as much
information as possible to enable us to take a formal position
with respect to your claim as a Commoner.
However, as previously discussed, the Board would much rather
conclude a mutual quit claim of property interests leading to
your clear title behind the dikes and our acquiring title to
vegetated tidal wetlands and underwater mud flats in West
Creek with only such pecuniary interest as is legally proper,
ordinary and usual. (Possibly, with an additional historical
exchange of clams or produce) .
Absent your authorization to move directly ahead with mutual
quit claret, I would recommend you consider meeting again with us
shortly; as soon as we have had an opportunity to prepare a
formal position on the Commoner issue:
Thank you again for writing, as we will now move ahead with this
matter.
Sin erely yours,
John M. Bredemeyer, III
President, Board of Trustees
JMB: jmt
cc: Harvey Arnoff, Town Attorney
Matt Kiernan, Assistant Town Attorney
WICKHAM"S FRUIT FARM
Route 25,Cutchague,Long Island,New York 11935 Tel.(51
June 19, 1991
),JL 1991
Southold Town Trustees
Town Hall TOWN OF SOU
Southold, N.Y. 11971 HOLD
Gentlemen:
I have had in mind meeting with you to go over my holdings of
L salt marsh in West Creek, but find there may have been a further
encroachment on my title there. For this reason I have instructed
My attorney, Justin Lite, Esq. , to proceed with a bar claim action
(action to quiet title) .
This means that when this case is finished I can give you a bar-
gain and sale deed instead of a quitclaim deed for this property. It
also means the value will have to reflect my costs.
At the same time I exuect to include in this action my land be-
hind the dikes so that I will not need a quitclaim deed from you.
In fact you will become a defendant. Since I have used this land
and paid taxes on it for 47 years it will strengthen my case .
I haven't wanted, as you know, to include the Trustees in this
action because it might weaken your control over the intertidal marsh
of all creeks in the Town. This is because the deed from the "Com-
moners" will be established over any claim you might have. I feel
that your people have taken this possibility too lightly. The "Com-
moners" have in the past deeded out marshlands and mud flats.
To avoid this situation you might consider giving me a quit-
claim first. Then you wouldn't be a defendant. The consideration
could be my agreement to convey to you some 20 acres of salt marsh
in this creek at a price to be agreed upon. I want to see this land
preserved in its natural state and feel that the Town can do it bet-
ter than state or county. I don't like unsightly duck blinds nor
people digging out the bog for mussels . The Tow could use it to
propagate clams and oysters however.
I'd be glad to meet with you to discuss this further.
Sincerely yours,
- John Wickham,
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