HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-09/15/1977 APPEAL BOARD
MEMBERS
Robert W. Gilllspie, Jr., Chairman
Robert Ber!~en
Charles C~riflonis, Jr.
Serge Doyen, Jr.
Fred Hulse, Jr.
Southold Town Boa:rd o£ Appeals
BOUTHOLD, L. !., N.Y. 119"71
Telephone 765-2660
MINUTES
Southold Town Board of Appeals
September 15,
A regular.meeting of the Southold :T~wn Board of Appeals
was h~id at 7:30 P.M. (E.D.S.T.), Thursday, September 15, 1977,
at the Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, New York.
Tke~e were present: Messrs: Robert W. Gillispie, Jr.,
Chairman; Robert ~r~en; Charles Grigonis, Jr.; Serge Doyen, Jr.
~UBLIC HEARING: ~:.~ peal No. 2312 7:30 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
)lication of Gustav Bartra, 227 Break-
New York for a variance in accordance
with Zoning ~Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-30 C and
10 A for Permission to construct radio and T.V. towers ex-
ce Lecation of property: Right-of-way,
akwater Road, Mattituck, New York, bounded on the
nOrth~i'by Stupiello and Malone; east by Donald Cooper; south by
right-of-way, D.~ Cooper; west by Cannone.
Mat~:
that
from
CHAIRMAN: The a~enda tenight i~ncludes, as
for a
Involved in this hearing was
tions of Mr. Bartra were interfering
Since that hea~ing, which we recesSe~
te 'con-
Road,
aeeks
I've got here.
"I do most certainly object to the erection of an illegal
T.V. tower on the property of Gustav Bartra. But how is it
possible for him to have 2 already d towers if
they are illegal. Who permitted th ,en?"
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1977
I can't identify the signature. I'm not sure what it is. Is
the gentleman who wrote this here?
(There was no response.)
It begins with a "Whlem", Wilhelm or something like that.
MRS BULLARD: The name could be Martens, Wilhelm Martens.
THE CHAIRMAN: I don't think it casts a lot of light on the
problem we have. The next letter is dated September 12.
(The Chairman read the letter from Gustav Bartra, the
letter that was circulated in Mattituck regarding h~is
application, and a newspaper clipping regarding the
effect of sunspots on television reception.~ The next
letters to be read were from Katherin~ & Edward Siebert,
~ames E. Callahan, and Mr. & Mrs. Louis Darin, all in
opposition to the application. The Chairman also read
the August 22, 1977, letter from Mr. Bartra which con-
tained a newspaper clipping from Suffolk Life concerning
sunspots.)
That about summarizes the letters that were received on this
subject since we recessed the hearing. One of the reasons for
recessing the hearing was to write to the FCC to get their opinion
as to the height, whether the height of a ham radio station trans-
mitting would have any effect one way or the other on local television
reception. We don't know whether it would or not, we're not experts
on it. There has been no communication from the FCC. At this time,
I~ll be glad to hear from anybody that want~ to talk either for this
or against it, whenever we have a crowd most people are against it,
so anybody who wishes to speak for this, I'd like to hear from them.
FRANK HUSAK: In reference to these so-called sunspots,
Wouldn't that ~affect the TV at all times regardless, why is it
that only at certain times when this particular ham radio is in
operation that it affects the TV, other times we get perfect re-
ception. This is Channel 3 that is mostly affected and at times
on Channel 8 which is our strongest. Any time that Mr. Bartra
iS broadcasting or whatever, this is when we get all this inter-
ference, the circles and everything. I imagine that if it was
due to the sunspots, there would be n~ variation.
THE CHAIRMAN: It would be an unusual coincidence, wouldn't it.
How do you know when he's broadcasting?
FRANK HUSAK: You can hear him speak in his language to
whomever ...
THE CHAIRMAN: You recognize his voice?
FRANK HUSAK: Just as if he was in the room with you.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -3-
September 15, 1977
THE CHAIRMAN: Comes right over Channel 3 or 8?
FRANK HUSAK: Definitely, Channel 3 mostly. He's also claimed
that he can bring in any channel that's in the air at the time, he
can overpower anything including cablevision. If we had cablevision
down there, which we don't have, we'd be out of luck also.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone else who wishes to add anything
to what ...
MRS BULLOCK: I live on Naugles Drive. I'm going to tell you
of an incident why I'm against this. I have a son who's up in
Yorktown Heights and he had the same problem. I couldn't call him
on the phone when the man was broadcasting, I would hear the con-
versation. When they put on their hi-fi, you'd hear him on the
hi-fi. You put on the television, you'd hear him on the television.
He was a ham operator like Mr. Bartra. They had to take him to
court, and that was what he'd put up, a higher antenna. He had to
take the antennas down. Finally the man moved because everybody in
the area couldn't operate their televisions. I'm only talking from
what happened, I was actually there and seen it. That's why I'm
against it, I don't want it here, that I have to put up with the
same thing.
THE CHAIRMAN: Did the court stop him from, order him not to ...
MRS. BULLOCK: No, they told him to take down the big antenna
ha~d put up, and finally the man moved out. But he had to take the
antenna that he'd put up down. Before he'd interfered with every-
thing, hi-fi, telephone, and television.
ROBERT BERGEN: After he moved you had no troUble?
MRS. BULLOCK: No problem, nothing whatsoever.
MR. BULLOCK: Before he put up those high towers we had no
trouble with television or anything else before that.
MRS. BULLOCK: Now we're getting all this interference.
MR. BULLOCK: We had television before that and had no problem.
I~a~ge~my~erial around, inStead of toward the city to th~ West,
I put it-tO Connecticut over to 3~and 8 and I don't g~t that clashing
of the stmtion. You get the voice of one and the picture of the
other.
PETER MAIONE: I have some more signatures here for you.
(Mr. Maione submitted petitions against the application
from five people.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Anyone else wish to speak against this application?
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1977
PETER MAIONE: I'd like to talk about the height of the tower.
As I said at the last meeting, the height of the tower will just
make them go out further. He'll be knocking out Connecticut, he'll
be knocking out Montauk Point, he'll be knocking out everybody.
THE CHAIRMAN: Anyone else?
HERBERT DRAPE: That tower up there is about 60' high and
he also has a round radar screen up there, for what reason I don't
know.
THE CHAIRMAN: Radar screen?
HERBERT DRAPE: It's a round screen lust like Grumman has,
I work for Grumman.
THE CHAIRMAN: It's not used for broadcasting, is it?
HERBERT DRAPE: I don't know what it's used for or why he has
it on there in the first place. I get all sorts of interference.
GENEVIEVE ROBINSON: I have interference on my TV on Channel 3.
JOHN MATHER: I get it on 3 too, on Naugles Drive, Rose Lane.
THE CHAIRMAN: You only get it when he's broadcasting?
JOHN MATHER: That's right.
THE CHAIRMAN: Ail you people are within a few hundred yards?
PETER MAIONE: I live right next door to him. I was at the
last Board meeting and the sunspots went away. My daughter was
watching TV all night, it was beautiful.
THE CHAIRMAN~ When you were here.
PETER MAIONE: Mr. Bartra was here too.
MR. PSICHOGIOS: I live next to Mr. Drape. Up to today, I
didn't know what was wrong with my TV. I used to take Channel 3
100% like Channel 8. Lately, sometimes I don't get nothing, blind,
and sometimes, probably when he's talking, I have no reception at
ail. In the morning, 10:30 in the morning I can't get anything.
After an hour, Channel 3 is perfect. Up to today, I didn't know
what was wrong, I went running to call out the antenna man to put
some kind of different antenna, so maybe that's what it is, I'm
not sure.
GEORGE STIFTER: A couple of months ago, I had some interference
on my TV set. I use a service department in Middle Island. It costs
me $25 every time they come out to look at my set. They finally told
me that there must be some interference from the Long Island Lighting
Company, the transformer may be out of whack. I got in touch with
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1977
Long Island Lighting and told them about the transformer in our
area, that it must be out of whack because we're getting a lot of
interference on our television. So they said, "We'll look into
it, take somebody down there and let them look at it." The~ they
advised me there's nothing wrong with the transformer. In the
meantime, my television set is down in Richards for two weeks.
They looked over the set entirely, it cost me $85 for having them
look at that. They came back and said, "There's nothing wrong with
your set, there must be some interference in your neighborhood."
We didn't know anything about this tower this man has here.
THE CHAIRMAN: How far away are you?
GEORGE STIFTER: I'm about maybe a quarter of a mile. We
have a booster on our TV set, we have a directional finder so we
can go all over, I get every station, even Channel 9 I get, and
last night and the night before I was looking at the Yankees and
damn it if this thing didn't come in and kill out just at the right
time when the guy was hitting a single and the Yankees scored a run.
THE CHAIRMAN: Channel 11.
GEORGE STIFFER: Channel 11, that's right. I also get it on
Channel 10. Last night was the same thing, but fortunately I saw
the end of the game. But during the interim, there was a lot of
this stuff (indicating with his hand) going all over the screen.
There's nothing in our area, there's nobody with any electric ap-
pliances that are interferinH with my television set. Never did
before, but now I'm getting ~hem, so this must be something wrong
w~th this guy and his antenna and his tower-. It looks like he has
a radar screen on it now, I don't know what that's for. I have no
idea What the whole thinH is for anyway, only to make life miserable
for the people paying their taxes in our area. That's all I have
to say.
THE CHAIRMAN: Anyone else? Mr. Bartra, is there anything
you'd like to say?
~USTAV BARTRA: Yes, sir. I'm glad that they are all here,
that will give me an opportunity to talk to you and I'm almost sure
I~m qoing to prove to you that I'm a decent citizen. The least that
I want to do is to do anything that will harm you. Several of these
entlem~n are claiming that I was operating my radios during the last
ew daYs and I was knocking Gut a few stations, unfortunately} they
are basing all their assumptions that I'm creating the interference
going by a letter that was sent a couple of weeks back claiming that
I was doing this. I would like to take the opportunity to prove
conclusively that ~'m not creating TV interference. In the first
place, I would like to ask a few persons present in the audience
when was the last time you had interference. As I heard here~ you
had it only yesterday. I think you will all agree that is happens
sporadically during the day and at night. Sometimes it get much
worse. I have some newspaper articles that were published last
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1977
month explaining the cause of this interference. I can give a copy
to each of you. Further, I can prove that I have sold my radios
four months ago and the gentleman who bought my radios is present
in the audience.
THE CHAI~V~N: Excuse me just a moment. You sold your radios,
what does that mean. You mean the ham radios?
GUSTAV BARTRA: I have no ham radio equipment in my house at
this moment.
THE CHAIRS~N; And you haven't used it for four months?
GUSTAV BARTRA: Since a year ago, I've been planning on
purchasing better equipment and I had the opportunity of getting
rid of my sets four months ago.
THE CHAIrmAN: How many sets did you have, more than one?
GUSTAV BARTRA: A ham radio system is comprised of a trans-
mitter, a receiver, and an amplifier. I sold the receiver and
the amplifier, no, the transmitter.
THE CHAIRM~N: You have no transmitter in your house or on
your property, is that correct?
GUSTAV BARTRA: That's correct. Furthermore, the senior
citizens here should know that I'm the only linkage they have with
the outside world in case we are striken by a natural disaster.
I have a generator, I can communicate any of them with their
relatives any~nere in the country.
THE CHAI~L~N: How can you do it without a set?
GUSTAV BARTRA: I sold my radios, your honor.
THE CHAi~4AN: Just Chairman.
GUSTAV BARTRA: I was considering selling my sets a year ago
and buying something better~ more sophisticated, We are limited in
power by the FCC. The person who bought my sets is here. If we
were to lose telephone and power communications, I would be the only
one in the area to be able to communicate with your loved ones any-
where in the country, like I have done before during earthquakes in
the affected areas of Peru and ~uatemala, even though I hope it
never happens.
MRS. BULLOCK: Who cares? I was born here, i don't want
nothing over there.
GUSTAV BARTRA: I'm an American citizen too~ lady.
Southo!d Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1977
THE CP~AIRF~N: Hold it down.
GUSTAV BARTRA: Even though I hope it never happens, with
winters as severe as the last one we had, we stand a good chance
of someday I'm be able to help some of them and I'll be very glad
to help you regardless of what you think of me now.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Could I hear from the gentleman
to whom you sold the equipment.
PHILIP ANDREWS: I'm also an amateur radio operator, too. I
can give you the label~ the seriel number, brand and so forth.
THE CHAIrmAN: Where do you live?
PHILIP ANDREWS: Cutchogue.
THE CEAI~AN: Are you using this equipment'that he sold you?
PHILIP ANDREWS: Yes~ I do.
THE CHAIR~;~N: Then maybe you're the source of the ...
PHILIP ANDPJE~WS: Impossible, totally impossible
JO~N M2~THER: It's only five miles away~ you can go to Europe
with it.
PETER~MAIONE: First he's going to Guatemala with it~ now
five miles away it's impossible.
PHILIP ANDREWS: The only thinq I can say to the people here
now is that it's going to be with t~e FCC and the person involved.
in other words, the FCC will then come up and make a check on it
to find out what his problem is, whether he is interfering, which
he hasn't been interfering in the past. One thing that they're
losing persPective on is CB. Much as I hate to say it, your citizens
band radfos are all over and they are the big cause of it, they're
a tremendous cause of it.
THE CHAIRM~N: You think this could be a local CB station?
PHILIP ~NDREWS: I'll bet you, I don't know for sure, but I
assure you that there must be at least 30 in that area, or more.
They're on constantly. I think that there is one gentleman here
who said it happened at 10:30 yesterday or this morning at 9:30,
I think. Mr. Bartra does have a business and i'm sure he doesn't sit
at the thing all day.
THE CHAI~4AN: What is the apparatus he has that looks like
a radar screen/on his tower?
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1977
GUSTAV BARTRA: That is what we would call a UHF antenna. It
picks up channels 13 to 84 from New York City. It's just a receiving
antenna for television°
THE CHAIRMAN: It's your opinion then, Mr. Andrews, that this
interference they've been getting lately in the last few days, this
gentleman was watching the Yankees the other night and lost recep-
tion, that coutd come from ~a CB set?
PHILIP ANDREWS: It could have. It could come from any
numerous sources.
THE CF_AI~4AN: Or from your set, were you using your set the
other night? How do you explain the fact that these people blank
out every so often?
PHILIP ANDREWS: With TV, what you have is, there's two or
three stations will try to come in and they'll overlap each other.
Then if there is direct TVI interference, it will black the whole
TV set out, put lines across it, or whatever.
THE CHAI~4AN: The only experience we've had with the FCC
is in connection with a fellow who wanted to establish an FM
station here in Southold. It was going to be placed in a resi-
dential area. The Building Inspector scared him away, i guess,
and told him that we didn't want an FM station in a residential
area° The concern of the FCC seemed to be a series of inter-
cepting circles, in other words, if you take the FM stations in ...
they apparently try not to ha~e any overlap.
P~ILIP ANDREWS: That's right, it's the coverage they go on.
THE CHAIRF~N: Would you have the same problem with ham radio
stations?
PHILIP ANDREWS: No, because, indirectly, with a ham ~adio
you're workin~ with the short wave and you're not patterned. As
a matter of fact, on some of the frequencies that Gus operates on,
you won't even hear him because he would skip the overlay.
THE CHAIRMAN: Anyone else wish to sayanything? What I
propose to do is to find out what the Board's ..o
HERBERT DRAPE: What's this gentleman's name who got up to speak?
THE CHAI~iAN: Philip Andrews.
HERBERT DRAPE: That's from Cutchogue, right?
PHILIP ANDREWS: Yes.
THE CHAI~WiAN: What I think the Board should do is determine
just what our powers are in this r~gard and come back to you,
hopefully at the next meeting, with an answer which is within our
Southold To~n Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1977
powers. I don't thihk~that we can prohibit him from having a ham
radio station, this Board can't. The only thing we can do is hold
down his aeriel height and we were trying to establish whether the
height made a lot of difference in your local difficulties. I
think that probably you'll have to go to court if he's doing some-
thing that can be established as causing interference, you'll
probably have to go to court like this lady said happened in York-
town Heights. It's probably beyond our powers.
GRACE STIFTER: If he did give the date that he sold his
entire equipment, I missed it. What was it?
THE CHAI~4AN: Four months ago, he said.
FRANK HUSAK: I'll challenge that.
THE CHAIR~N: This is the wrong forum.
FRANK HUSAK: I've had interference.
THE CHAIRMAN: You've had interfersnce continuously?
FRANK HUSAK: Right along. In fact, I called the gentleman
to the effect because these so-called CB~s don't talki~in a
foreign language. I called him because we've had that trouble
before and I asked him personally was he broadcasting and he said,
"Why, who is this calling?" I told him who was calling and he said
~'Just a'moment, I'll call you back later." I was watching the Grand
Prix in France, I was watching the race, it was on a Sunday after-
noon. The thing was ready to jump out of the door, that's how much
interference there was. You could hear him just like he was in the
room. When I called him I asked if he was broadcasting and he said,
"Who's this calling?" Never mind who's calting~ I said~ "~re you
broadcasting? This is Frank Husak." He said, "Yeah, just a
moment, you got trouble?" He called me about 15 minutes later
and said he was over-polarized or something to that effect.
THE CHAIRMAN: The Grand P~ix was within the last month or
two~ wasn't i~? How do you explain that, Mr. Bartra, were you
broadcasting at that time?
GUST~V BARTRA: That happened around four months ago, didn't
it Mr. Husak?
FRANK HUSAK: The French Grand Prix, I~ll say a couple of
months ago. It's not four months ago.
THE CHAIR~4AN: I remember watching it myself.
GUSTAV BARTRA: I'm ready to present the check with the date
that I got from Mr. Andrews.
THE CHAIR~N: I don't think that'll help us any. The check
doesn't mean anything.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1977
FRANK HUSAK: In the meantime, shouldn't those towers be taken
down to the requirement of 18' regardless of how the FCC rules?
The To~ ordinance only allows 18'
THE CHAIP~4AN: That's right, but all over Town we have permitted
in certain sections where people indicated they had difficulty in
getting televisionsr~ception, we have permitted higher towers.
FRANK HUSAK: I just have mine off the chimney and until this
thing come along I could never complain about my reception.
THE CPLAI~V~AN: I think that probably if Mr. Bartra had come to
us originally we would have permitted a high antenna but generally
in the rear or side yard rather than the front yard.
CHARLES GRIGONIS, JR.: Yes, but we've been permitting receiving
ant~nas not transmitting antennas.
THE CHAIrmAN: That's true. That's why we're trying to get
some information from the FCC about the height of the transmitting
tower. We've got a lot more to do tonight and I'm quite sure that
I can't solve it and the rest of the Board can't solve it tonight
so we're going to recess this. There's no way we can make him take
down his antenna and I don't think the antenna, the receiving
antenna, is what's causing your trouble. I think that when we try
to solve this we should try to do it properly and in fairness to Mr.
Bartra as well as the rest of you rather than just order him to take
the towers down. I think we will, finally, have to ask him to put
the towers in the rear yard, whatever height they are.
FRANK HUSAK: The proof is in the pudding. None of us people
had any problems prior to the time that these towers were erected.
If this thing should drag out for the next year or two or who knows
ho~ long we have to put up with this.
THE CHAI~4AN: I promise you we'll have a decision next time.
Mr. Bergen has an interesting suggestion here that we might learn
something from. Go ahead.
ROBERT BERGEN: I suggest that he doesn't use his broadcasting
radio from now until the next hearing.
SERGE DOYEN, JR.: He hasn't got one, how can he use it?
THE CHAIRM, AN: Mr. Andrews is the one you'd have to ask.
ROBERT BERGEN: And find out what the results are then. if
he doesn't have one, it shouldn't interfere with these people.
GUSTAV BARTRA: I can even promise not to use it for a full
year if that's what will make them happy.
THE CHAIRMAN: But you don't have one, you don't have to promise
anything. Unless you've been kidding us.
$outhold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1977
GUSTAV BARTRA: According to the newspaper~ believe me, you
are going to have this problem for at least a year or two. Sun-
spots show up every ~11 years.
MR. BULLOCK: How come we had this before we had the sunspots?
THE CHAIRM~uN: Do sunspots affect Cable?
GUSTAV BARTRA: Yes, it's affecting Cablevision.
THE CHAIRMAN: I haven't had any difficulties.
ROBERT BERGEN: Speaking of sunspots, does that bother it at
night as well as day?
GUSTAV BARTRA: Yes. There is a phenomenon called Aurora
Borealis which appears only at night and is due to sunspots. The
earth is surrounded by an electromagnetic field which is subjected
to sunspots.
MR. BULLOCK: Does that make your voice go over to someplace
else?
GUSTAV BARTRA: I'm not denying that a radio station or a
CB station will never interfere, it could interfere if you do
something wrong. But if you are decent enoughcand responsible,
you should do what I did with my neighbors° I went around and I
told them, "I'm a ham radio amateur. If you ever hear me or you
are definitely sure that I'm interfering, please call me."
MRS BULLOCK: Ail right, Mr. Bartra, what will you do?
GUSTAV BARTRA: Stop transmitting completely or stop it and
find out the problem.
THE CHAIRMAN: Ail right, you say stop transmitting, but you
haven~ got a set.
GUSTAV BARTRA: I told you, I sold my sets.
THE CHAIrmAN: What do you mean when you say "stop transmitting
entirely?"
GUSTAV BARTRA: If I had all of these complaints, if I had the
radio, I would stop transmitting completely.
THE CHAI~N: When was the last time you transmitted anything
on a ham radio out of your house?
GUSTAV BARTRA: Just before I sold Mr. Andrews the radio.
THE CHAIRMAN: Which was what date?
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1977
GUSTAV BARTRA: I don~t remember exactly the date. I would
have to take a look at the check. It was probably anywhere from
three to four months ago.
PHILIP ANDREWS: A good three months ago.
MRS. BULLQCK: And you haven't talked to your mother since
then?
THE CHAIRMAN:-
GUSTAV BARTRA:
THE CHAIRI~AN:
GUSTAV BARTRA:
You haven'St talked to anybody since then?
No, sir.
'On shortwave or ham radio or CB?
No.
THE CHAIRMAN: What have you got in your house, just television?
GUSTAV BARTRA: Right now I've got the television receiving
antennas, and the two ham radio antennas which are doing nothing.
THE 'CHAIR~N: You swear that is the truth?
GUSTAV BARTRA: That's the truth, sir.
CHARLES GRIGONIS, JR.: I know you can get interference from
CB's. The place I work at, we get an FM radio station, there's
speakers all over the building. Certain CB's, when they come
within 200' of that building, they cut the FM right out and the
voice comes in just as clear as mire is right here. They don't
all do it, it's certain ones. Mike Jacobi has one and any time
he's coming down that road, we know he's coming.
GRACE STIFTER: If Mr. Bartra no longer has any of these
things that we feel had caused the disturbance, then he is
vindicated. Now, is there any way that you can ever find out
in the immediate future, Mr. Andrews now has his thing going, are
the people in Cutchogue going to be harassed?
PHILIP ANDREWS: I'd like to make the s~gestion that
notification of the FCC be made in this in reference to radiation
interference and have them go ahead and inspect his premises.
It's a known fact that five miles away is not affected, the~ im-
mediate area of 100', 200' or a quarter of a mile, I would say
yes. I would suggest that if they have a legitimate complaint
that they correspond with the FCC in reference to such and have
everything checked out.
PETER MAIONE: How far do you transmit?
PHILIP ANDREWS: I can transmit around the world.
PETER MAIONE: I close my case.
$outhold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1977
PHILIP ANDREWS: It's impossible for me to explain to you
that when you talk about radiation interference ...
MR. BULLOCK: When you hear my voice ... my son took a
tape recorder and took it to court and showed that it came through
the hi-fi and the television, telephone.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Grigonis, it was
RESOLVED that the public hearing upon application of Gus%ay
Bartra, Appeal No. 2312, be RECESSED to October 13, 1977, at 8:00 P.M.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen, Grigonis,
Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2308 - 8:15 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
Recessed hearing upon application of Helmut Hass, Middle Road,
Peconic, New York for a variance in aecordance with the Zoning
Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-30 and Bulk Schedule, and
the New York State Building Code and Housing Code for approval
of building built in violation of the Building and Housing Codes.
Location of property: East side Beveraly Road (Pvt. Rd.), Southold,
New York, bounded on the north and west by now or formerly I.
Meissnest; east by V. Ruch East.; south by Mill Creek.
THE CHAIrmAN: This was recessed until 7:40, I'm sorry we're
so late. I think we indicated to you (Stanley Corwin) what our
decision would be on 92308 and I believe that you then asked us
to recess the hearing until tonight. The new application would
be heard with this one. I don't think our decision is going to
be any different. I'll read the new application.
Appeal No. 2333 - 8:17 P.M. (E.D.S~T.) - upon application of
Helmut Hass, Middle Road, Peconic, New York for a variance in ac-
cordance with the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-30
and Bulk Schedule for permission to connect accessory building to
main structure causing insufficient side yard setback. Location of
property: East side Beverly Road (Pvt. Rd.), Southold, New York,
bounded on the north and west by now or formerly I. Meissnest; east
by V. Ruch Est.; south by Mill Creek.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance, legal notice of hearing, affidavits attesting to
its P~bt~cation in the official newspapers, notice to the appli-
cant, and disapproval from the Building InspectOr. The Chairman
also read statement from the Town Clerk that notification by
certified mail had been made to: Valentine Ruch Est.; Mr. and Mrs.
George Santis; trenen Meissnest. Fee paid $15.00.
THE CHAIRMAN: The application for a building permit has a
note on the back of it, "See attached survey.~ The survey shows
a one and one-half story framed house and garage which are connected.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-14-
September 15, 1977
That survey presently reflects the current structure. However, the
Building Inspector has declined to award a Certificate of Occupancy.
The application now presented is to Construct a breezeway between
the garage and the dwelling which will consist of the existing roof
over the existing breezeway and be constructed by the elimination
by removal of the existing side walls and re-enforcing the beams to
carry the roof from the garage structure to the dwelling structure.
The present roof consists of rafters between the two structures with
2 x 8s, sixteen inches apart on center, covered with 1/2 inch
~heathing, 30# felt and 50~ felt, a built-up roof with a 3-inch
pitch from side to side. The purpose of the roof is to provide
s~ome shelter between the dwelling and the garage and to carry the
electrical service from the garage where the in-service is located
to the dwelling. The dwelling is heated by electrical current.
Reference is respectfully made to the previous applications for the
construction of structures on the premises.
*There may be disagreement about the effect of the proposed con-
struction on the zoning law. It is the applicant's belief that in
the opinion of the Building Inspector the construction does
violate the zoning law."
This application is to be taken in conjunction with the
application which was originally heard about two meetings ago
where the applicant was denied a Certificate of Occupancy because
he failed to follow the original building pgrmit application.
I think that along with this application we read a supplementary
statement which was designed to alleviate defence. Is there
anyone present who wishes to speak for the application concerning
the breezeway?
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: I'm the legal representative of the
applicant. I should like to address Dayself preliminarily to the
original application. I appreciate that the Board adjourned that
on a couple of occasions. One of the reasons that we had for that
was to afford ourselves an opportunity to try to buy some adjoining
property which would have enabled us to avoid this. While our
neighbors said, "we don't have any objection to the closeness of
the thing, if you want to buy our property it's for sale for X
number of dollars," and the price was a little rediculously high,
so %~e didn't pursue it. I'm not going to withdraw that application
because I wiSh ...
THE CHAIrmAN: Which one?
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: The first one, although you've indicated
to me what your decision is with respect to it, I~just wa~nt to
preserve my client's legal rights, and now I'd like to ad~ress
mySelf to the second one. Preliminarily, I'm a little bit aPPalled
to hear the Chairman suggest to me that the determination is going
to be the same before we've conducted the hearing. Tha~ seems a
little bit like a prejudgment.
ROBERT BERGEN: That is on the first hearing.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -15-
September 15, 1977
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: Oh, I thought he was referring to the
second one.
THE CHAI~kAN: No. I think that it's been indicated to you
our position as far as the adjourned hearing. I think as a result
of the indication of our position, you made the second application.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: Let me suggest that what we're really
doing here is asking the Board to grant the kind of a variance that
is quite different from the first one, aside from the method which
we would arrive at the final result. Ordinarily, when you come in
and you ask to put a breezeway between a couple of houses, you're
going to construct something and in this case we're going to de-
struct something, but the end result is going to be the same.
THE C~LAI~V~N: You're going to destruct something that you
were not given permission to construct.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: I could spend a lot of money and tear
the whole thing down and then come in here and make an application,
and if you granted it, then I'd feel like a damn fool for not trying
it this way.
THE CHAIR~DAN: Agreed.
STANLEY COR~IN, ESQ.: We're talking about the Zoning Ordinance
and we're talking about the police power and the health, safety, and
welfare'of the psople, as you can see from the demonstration we had
here earlier this evening, that when their welfare is bothered ~they're
here to holler about it. There's nobody here now in connection with
this application and nobody's really going to be adversely affected
so far as heal.th, safety, and welfare is concerned.
THE CHAiRM3~N: I think the Ruches have appeared twice.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: They didn't indicate any serious
adversary position with respect to What Hass has gOt, SS applying
think he could do or whether he leaves the roo~ that's there now
to give him a little shelter to carry his electrical conduit from
there, it's pretty much the same thing. I think this is really a
situation where this Board should exercise it,s discretion and grant
this variance. I don't think I can add anything to that, you're
probably more familiar with it by now than I am. I'm heue to
answer some questions if I can.
THE CHAI~iAN: We had some testimony volunteered at the last
meeting, I don't know whether you heard it or not, did you~hear it?
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: No, I wasn't here~
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-16-
September 15, 1977
THE CHAIRMAN: On my motion, the hearing was recessed until
tonight. "After the hearing was closed, Irene Meissnest Miller
asked if she could speak with regard to the Hass hearing as she
will not be able to attend the September 15th meeting."
(The Chairman read the conversation between the Board and
Mrs. Miller from the minutes of August 25, 1977.)
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: Can I make some observations with
respect to Mrs. Meissnest's testimony, it sounds like testimony
but I can assure you it's not, it's not sworn to. I know Irene,
she's got something for Dutch pretty much the way that Buttons
has.
THE CHAIP~LAN.~ What was that?
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: She's got something going for Dutch
t~e sane way that Buttons has, and I think you understand my
language. That's perfectly all right for her to come here and
say that. If she wants to make that kind of a statement before
the Board and if you want to believe it, that's your prerogative.
But there isn't a word of truth. You are welcome, you fix the
time, you told me once before you had difficulty seeing in or
getting in, you're welcome to come and look the place over from
top to bottom. With respect~to the kitchen facilities in the back
of the garage, there's a little sink-stove combination there and
there's a toilet.
THE C~LAIR~N: This is the garage that's attached presently,
part of the house.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: That's right. There's a.shower in
there, people can come in from bathing without getting a Lot of
wet stuff all over the house upstairs which is carpeted throUGhout.
They can come in there and have a drink and make something on-the
st~ve and have a good time. Now, when somebody objects to that,
they're objecting to somebody's life sty!~, but that does not make
it a two-family house. I don't think it's anybody's business what
somebody's life style is. There are not three sto~es in that house
and there never were. When Irene says it, I tell you and I'm
representing this to you as an officer of the court, there's not
a word of truth in it and you're welcome to come there any time,
you p~ck the t~me, we'll be there to let you in.
THE CHAIRMAN: I think what she said was that he has 9penings
in the floor upstairs in the main part of the house so that a
third kitchen could be added.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: That's not so. Come on in and take a
look at it.
THE CHAIRMAN: Well, you've responded to that part of it. Is
there anything else that you'd tike to add.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-17-
September 15, 1977
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: I don't think there's anything other
than that tO which I can make a response. We're not asking for
a three-family house and if there's three families in there and
she doesn"t like it, she should be the first one to go to the
Building Inspector to not let them live there. We're not trying
to do something behind somebody's back.
THE CHAI~4A/~: Can you tell me why he didn't follow what
he was permitted to do, the building application.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: Dutch is an extemporaneous artist
when it comes to putting buildings together. He didn't make the
application, his son-in-law did. It was a lack of communication
between them and Dutch thought he had a permit to put it up there.
THE CHAIRMAN: He is also quite obstinate at times.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: I agree.
THE CHAI~;~N: Anything else? Any questions of Mr. Corwin?
(There was no response.)
STA~NLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: We're really talking about the merits
of a variance which is nothing more than putting a breezeway, a
small one ...
THE CHAIRMAN: On the merits, it apparently makes a big
difference to the zoning procedure whether a garage is attached
or not attached. It has the effect, if it's attached, of
lengthening the original house and this is a very small lot, I've
forgotten what it was, about 9,000 sq. ft., it's pre-existing the
Zoning Ordinance, very small. That tends to cut off the amenity
of open space if you connect it with a solid breezeway. Those, i
think, are the considerations that the Board would be concerned
with.
STA~LEY CORWIN, ESQ.: That's the way it should be, but I find
it hard to believe that this kind of thing is something that
shouldn't be granted.
THE CHAIrmAN: It's a small lot, I think it would make quite
a2~lOt of difference if the lot were normal size. In'fact, the
procedure frequently is to attach the garage to the house.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: You have a judgmental decision to make
and I certainly urge you to make the one that would grant the
application.
THE CHAI~%LAN: I will offer a resolution denying application
number, this application from Helmut Hass for a Appeal No.
2333 where the applicant has asked for permission for a breezeway
connection. The effect of permitting this breezeway connection is
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-18-
September 15, 1977
to place the applicant's house within 3', 3.7' at its closest corner
on the northeast corner of the lot and creates a solid structure
from that point to what appears to be a distance of-15' or 20' from
ordinary high water mark on the south on Arshamomaque Pond°thereby
connecting the two structures. The effect of this is to diminish
the movement of air from the prevailing southwesterly direction to
the adjoining properties to the north and east. One northerly
property is already developed. It also is particularly objectionable
because the pre-existing, non-conforming lot is unusually small con-
sisting of approximately 130' plus or minus by a width of 74.5' at
the high water mark and approximately the same distance or less on
the northerly boundary. The lot adjoins a vacant lot presently to
the west over which it has a right-of-way of 20' and would further
compound the difficulties o~ obtaining or securing What little open
space is left for a proper residence on the adjoining lot as well as
affecting the breeze and general outlook of the lot to the east,
which is presently also undeveloped in.~the Valehtlne Ruch Estate.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: Mr. Chairman, i rehlize that you're
making a motion and giving the reasons for it, but I wonder if
before the Board votes on it, i could have an opportunity to make
an observation~on your observation. You talk about the size of
the lot and I want you to remember that whole area in there was
developed a iongc~ime ago when that kind of lot was a common thing.
I don't know whether this Board had a crack at it at any point, I
think maybe they did.
THE CHAIRMAN: No.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: The fact of the matter is that we're
dealing here with a bunch of buildings that are used only for the
summer, this isn't some all-year-round thing.
THE CHAI~: I think that the adjoining property to the
northwest, th~/guy's going to live there the year round. There's
quite a few~of them that are being occupied the year round.
isn,t going to have any effect on the flow of the air in ~hat area.
I hope that the rest of the Board isn't going to be persuaded by
your observation and argument that that's the case because it really
isn't. I should hope that the Board would not buy that, I just don't
think it's a valid argument. I wish that you, Mr. Chairman, would
reconsider it yourself. I think that we're going off in the wrong
direction here, there have been much more serious situations where
variances have been granted. OK, thank you very much.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-19-
September 15, 1977
THE CHAIRMAN: It seems to me to round up this situation, we
have to act on the other one too, don't we?
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: I thought you were talking about the
first one when you made your motion.
THE CHAIRMAN: I was talking about the application for a
breezeway when I made the motion. This other one involved kitchens
and so forth.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: I hope we're talking about the same
thing but I seem to have some doubt.
THE CHAIRMAN: We're talking about the breezeway. That's the
one we just talked about, right? The second application.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: Right.
THE CHAIRMAN: The first application was to leave the whole
thing the way it is, right? "Attached garage, kitchen unit,
attached to main house without approval, main house attached to
garage without approval, second floor added without approvalt does
not meet housing code o5 building code, violation of the Zoning
Ordinance, Chapter 100-30 and Bulk Schedule, violation of New York
State Building Code, violation of Southold Town Housing Code."
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: Mr. Chairman, you indicated to me that
those factors were not the concern of this Board. I agree that that
is the case.
THE CHAIRMAN: Some of them are. When he makes a notice of
disapproval, he doesn't list just the things ~that we're concerned
with, I just read everything that was on the page. What we are
concerned with is the garage attached to the main house, the
alleged kitchen unit in the garage, and the construction of a
second floor without approval.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: I said to Mr. Terry, in just so many
words, if we tear down the structure between the garage and the
house, will you give me a permit for a one-family d~e~ting without
me doing anything else, and he said, "Of course, yes I will. You
don't have to take out the unit in the back of the g.arage. You can
have running water and cook a hamburger without g6.i~g ~the main
part of the house."
THE CHAIRMAN: He said that?
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: Yes, he said that, he knows that it's
not a dwelling unit.
THE CHAIRMAN: That's not the way we define it here. We had
the same thing go to the Appellate Division, a judge disputed it.
He had improved a garage and put beds in it and one of these kitchen
units, and couldn't understand why we considered it a two-family
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-20~
September 15, 1977
residence. This was taken up to the Appellate Division and, as I
understand it, they confirmed us all the way. It seems to me that
this is not qui~e the same thing because this is attached to the
house, that other one was a separate garage.
ROBERT BERGEN: That's right, but we considered it two
residences on one parcel.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: I~m not interested in going to the
Appellate Division on this thing. But what I'm saying is you're
talking about somebody's life style just like you were when they
wouldn't let the fellow bring his airplane into Peconic. I said
to you that if some fellow was able to fly a plane so that he
could comply with all the FCC regulations there isn't any reason
in the world why he shouldn't be permitted to come in out of the
sky and land there. Everybody said, "Well, there's an Ordinance."
I think that kind of Ordinance is pure stupidity, I didn't have
any vote about making it, but that's what I think and I'm per-
fectly willing to stand up and be counted and be heard to say that.
THE CHAIRMAN: This is also, as I understand it, my recol-
lection of the definition that the State had is anyplace that is
regularly used by an aircraft landing and taking off is an air-
port.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: If that was a definition, that's a
lot of semantic nonsense.
THE CHAIRMAN: Well, who can define an airport, can you?
Because the subject's coming up again.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: Well, whether somebody wants to put
a carpet on the 'second floor, that seems to offend the Building
Inspector.
THE CHAIRMAN: It's far more than the carpet, it had to do
with the structure of the knee walls and so forth.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: If he's telling you the same thing
that he's telling me, he said to me, "I'll give you a permit for
a one family house."
THE CHAIRMAN: After you take out the second floor partitions.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: No, he didn't say that. After I take
down the structure between the garage and the dwelling.
THE CHAIRMAN: That would completely remove the breezeway,
and remove the kitchen assembly in the garage.
STANLEY CORWIN, ESQ.: No, he didn't say that. That's a
separate subject.
$outhold Town Board of Appeals
-21-
September 15, 1977
After investigation and inspection, the Board finds that the
applicant requests ~pproval of building built in violation of the
Building a~d Housing Codes, east side Beverly Road (Pvt. Rd.),
Southold, New York. The findings of the Board are that the appli-
cant has a self-imposed hardship. Mr. Hass failed to adhere to
the building permit application in the following respects: Garage
unit attached to main house without approval; second floor added to
main house without approval; illegal kitchen unit was placed in
garage. (Appeal No. 2308)
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance
would not produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship;
the hardship created is not unique and would be shared by all
properties alike in the immediate vicinity of this property and
in the same use district; and the variance will change the char-
acter of the neighborhood, and will not observe the spirit of
the Ordinance.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED, Helmut Hess, Middle Road, Pe~Onic, New York, be
DENIED approval of building built in violation of the Zoning,
Building, and Housing Codes, east side Beverly Road (Pgt. Rd.),
Southold, New York, as applied for. The second floor partitions
must be taken out of the main part of this structure leaving only
enoug~s~pport for the ridge. The balance of the house must meet
Building and Housing Code requirements including the doors and
windows. The breezeway, including the roof, must be completely
removed, and the kitchen unit in the garage must be removed.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen, ~rigonis,
Doyen.
Board
2333 inves~
the
York.
breezeway at
itsi clo~sest poin~
a
of or 20' ance
to the south. The effect of this is
air from the prevailing southwesterly dire olning
properties to the north and east which wouf the
difficulties of obtaining or securing what .e open space is
left for a proper residence on the adjoining lot as well as af-
fecting the breeze and general outlook of the 10t to the east.
Also, the subject premises is a pre-existing, non-conforming lot
which is unusually small, approximately 130''+ by 74.5'
Town Board of Appeals
-22-
September 15, 1977
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance
would not produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship;
the hardship created is not unique and would be shared by all
properties alike in the immediate vicinity of this property and
in the same use district; and the variance will change the char-
ac~er of the neighborhood, and will not observe the spirit of
the Ordinance.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED, Helmut Hass, Middle Road, Peconic, New York, be
DENIED permission to connect accessory building to main~structure
causing insufficient side yard setback, east side Beverly Road,
Southold, New York.
Vote 6~ the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen, Grigonis,
Doyen.
P~BLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2329 - 8:50 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon ~plication of James G. Nekerman, New Suffolk Road, New
Suffolk, New York for a variance in accordance with the Zoning
Ordinance, Article VII, Section 100-70 A and Bulk Schedule for
per~iDsion to use for dwelling purposes a building with less
than minimu~ floor area. Location of?property: west side New
Suffolk Road, New Suffolk, New York, bounded on the north by
Turcic; east by New Suffolk Road; south by S. White; west by
K. Wag~enhoffer.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance, legal notice of hearing, affidavits attesting to
its publication ink,he official newspapers, notice to the appli-
cant, and disapproval from the Building Inspector. The Chairman
also read statement from the Town Clerk that notification by
certified mail had been made to: Anthony Turcic; Sam White;
Katy Waggenhoffer. Fee paid - $15.00.
THE CHAI~: The building, according to ~he
got here, the main building on this lot is on New
and iS occupied by a prope~isr works. It's a one-st
building. In '~ what is designated h~re as a garage,
AUgust 21, 19 rvey by Van Tuyl. ~his is in a "B-l" z0ne~
Is there anyone present who wishes to speak for this application?
JAMES G. NEKERMAN: This building was there and it was falling
apart when I bought this place. I rebuilt the whote darn thing
planning on making a place for my mother, whO's 85 years old. You
know, you can't throw two women in one house. I figured it's only
a quarter of a mile from where I live an~ then I have my business
in front, and I f~gured I could s~op by and take a look in on her
each day. I didn't realize I was doing anything wrong.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-23-
September 15, 1977
THE CHAIRMAN: I'm not really sure that you have. There's
always something new in this business. I've discussed this with
the Town Attorney, I explained the circumstances to him, and one
of the things that I wasn't able to explain was exactly when you'd
bought it. I told him about four years ago, is that correct?
JAMES NEKERMAN: I bought it in October, 1973.
THE CHAIRMAN: As I understand it, the original purpose of
this structure on the southwest corner of your lot which, incidentally,
the lot is 101' on the street by 148' deep. The original structure
of the garage was, you thought, used for a school bUs?
JAMES NEKERMAN: From what I understand, I don't really know,
but from what I understand it was for the Presbyterian Church school
buses, a big long garage.
THE CHAIRMAN: The dimension of the building was 11-1/2 ...
JAMES NEKERMAN: I think it's 11-1/2' by 31'
sure, it's there on the survey, I think.
I'm really not
THE CHAIRMAN: And after this use discontinued for the bus,
the previous owner of the garage business, were you able to find
out whom he housed out there?
JAMES NEKERMAN: I don't really know.
he had a man live there for a few years.
or early '50's.
From what I understand,
This was in the 1940's
THE CHAIRMAN: So that when this, when he improved that enough so
the man could live in it, he was, in effect, this is the point that
counsel made, he was in effect upgrading the business use on the
proper~y by creating a residential use on that portion of the prop-
erty. When zoning came into effect, you had a non-conforming use
established prior to zoning on a business property. I think that
if it's agreeable with you and if there's nobody who wishes to
object to this, does anybody wish to object to this~use of the
property? Mr. Nekerman's mother, now in Florida~
JAMES NEKERMAN: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: You hope to have her up here through the winter?
JAMES NEKERMAN: I hope to get her up any time now.
THE CHAIRMAN: Perhaps this Board should, this is just a
suggestion, permit this use to continue, this non-conforming use,
for one individual and require that any time more than one person
occupies the building that it Will have to conform to the m~nimum
floor area presently in the Ordinance, which is 850 sq. ft. I
don't know wh~t the rest of the Board feels.
Southotd Town Board of Appeals
-24-
September 15, 1977
CHARLES GRIGONIS, JR.: I feel it should Bob, it's pre-existed
for a long time. It's not changing the character of the area, in
fact, it's improving the appearance of the building.
ROBERT BERGEN: It's not in a residential area either, it's in
a business zone.
THE CHAIRMAN: It's business zoned, although I think you have
residences all around you, right? Is there anyone who would object
to that sort of a solution to this?
(There was no response.)
I think that a condition should be that this be limited to
one person because if you had two people in an 850 sq. ft. house,
this is approximately what each person would have. If you,at
some time in the future, want to enlarge it to 850 sq. ft., that
would be something you'd have to come in on and could do. You would
then be making a~non-conforming use conforming. You'd have to get a
building permit.
After investigation and inspection, the Board finds that the
applicant requests permission to use for dwelling ~urposes a
building with less than minimum floor area, west side iNew Suffolk
Road, Mew Suffolk, New York. The findings of the BOard are that
this residential unit was in existence prior to the passage of the
Zoning Ordinance and became a non-conforming use on a bDsiness
zoned piece of property at the time the Ordinance came into existence.
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance
would produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship;
the hardship created is unique and would not be shared ~by all
properties alike in the immediate vicinity of this property and
an the same use district; and the variance will not change the
character of the neighborhood, and will observe the spirit of
the Ordinance.
On motion by Mr. Bergen, seconded by Mr. Grigonis, it was
RESOLVE~, James G. Nekerman, New Suffolk Road, New Suffolk,
New Y~k, be GPJ~TED permission to use for dwelling purposes a
building with less than minimum floor area, west side New Suffolk
Road, New Suff~Ik~ New York, as applied for, subject to the fol-
lowinq condition:
The use of this residential unit shall be confined to no
more than one person. If at any time more than one person
occupies the building, it will have to conform to the
minimum floor area in the Ordinance.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen, Grigonis,
Doyen.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-25-
September 15, 1977
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2330 - 9:05 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of Alice Donenfeld, Main Road, Orient, New York
for a variance in accordance with the Zoning O~dinanco, Article
III, Section 100-30 and Bulk Schedule and the Town Law, Section
280A for permission to set off lot with insufficient area and
approval of access. Location of property: North side Main Road,
Orient, Now York, bounded, on the north by Lot 14, Lands End Realty
Subdivision; east by Lots 14 and 15, Lands End Realty Subdivision;
south by Main Road; west by Woodhollow Properties, Inc.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
fo~ a variance, legal notice of hearing, affidavits attesting to
its~publication in the official newspapers, notice to the appli-
cant, and disapproval from the Building Inspector. The Chairman
also road statement from~the Town Clerk that notification by
certified mail had been made to: George Paro; Mathies Blair;
Land's End Realty; Woodhollow Properties, Inc. Fee paid $15.00.
THE CHAIRMAN: The property consists, according to the County
tax map, of approximately 1-1/2 acres with 180' on Route 25 and
a depth, at the westerly line, of 429', on the easterly line, 400'
Is there anyone present who wishes to speak for th~s application?
ALICE DONENFELD: This is the survey and it's marked what the
change would be. It's a flag lot.
(Mrs. Donenfeld gave the Board a copy of the survey.)
I would like to show you gentlemen_this tax map. I got tired
of drawing rod lines. This is my property here, this is the Orient-
by-the-Sea subdivision. Most of these lots are substantially under
even what I'm talking about on the flag lot.
THE CHAIRMAN: There are three size lots in the subdivision.
ALICE DONENFELD: Right. These are the little ones, I believe
they're 100' by 140'
THE CHAIRMAN: That was the original minimum lot requirement.
Then it became half-acre and then an acre.
ALICE DONENFELD: This is the barn which is the main building
on that back lot.
(Mrs. Donenfeld showed the Board pictures of the barn and
the main house.)
What I propose to do is convert the barn into a residonce.
There is water on the property, on this section here (on maP),
there are five or six ~ell points. TheSe points were used to
irrigate'~the field.
THE CHAIRMAN: I know there's plenty of water there.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-26- September 15, 1977
ALICE DONENFELD: So that is not a problem for this particular
area. Did you get the letter from Joe Gazza? I have a copy of
it if you need it.
THE CHAIRMAN: I don'.t know whether it adds anything or not,
but I'll read it.
(The Chairman read the September 14, 1977, letter from
Joseph Gazza stating he had no objection to the application.)
ALICE DONENFELD: I don't feel that there will be any change
in the character of the area. I plan to retain the main barn,
there are other outbuildings that are wrecks that probably will
come down. I'm talking about what's in the photograph, that central
main structure. It's reputed to be one of the oldest in Suffolk
County. The S~ffolk County Historical Department sent someone over
and they looke~ at the way the pegs were put in and the way it was
handcut, the beams and so on. They think it was built somewhere
around the Beginning of the 1700's.
THE CHAIRMAN: You're going to make it into a house?
ALICE DONENFELD: That's what I would like to do. I would
like, frankly ...
THE CHAIRMAN: And then sell it or move into it?
ALICE DONENFELD:
beautiful water view.
the Bay, and Plum Gut.
I'd rather move into it. It has a
The upstairs has a view of the Sound,
THE CHA~RM_AN: For the time being, you don't have a sale
for it.
ALICE DONE~FELD: No, I'm here first. I believe in first
things first~ ~here would be no damage to the p safety
and welfare~ ~ a of fact, I think it would probably be
an a~ 'e. Coming off the ferry, the. first thing you
see is Inn, which is a disaster. You see my house,
which I!Ve put quite a bit of time and effort into ,
next to me iS another wreck. My house and' property
on that block ~f the Main Roa~ th~t~s in ~ )e.
marina is well maintained so but
eise ... The · lem is, the tax burden iS' high and
g~ing up every I fix the house. What I would like to do is
divide tha~ l~t so there would be two residences s~aring the-tax
burden on it. Also, I believe that when I bought it, ik Wasn't one
acre zoning. I think at the time I purchased that, there was the
possibility of having that split off'without an appeal. I have had
no opposition, as a matter of fact, contrary to that, I've had the
Gazza letter, which seems to be in favor of it. I have had all
my other, one other neighbor c~lled me and I believe that was Mathies
Blair, I believe he's the one who called. He asked me what we planned
Sou%hold Town Board~'6f Appeala
Sept'enuber 15, 1277
on doing and when I explained it to him, he said that he had no
objection. I think that's about it.
THE CHAIRMAN: Sounds like a good project and I hope you have
enough money, it costs a lot to restore an old barn. Anyone wish
to speak against this application?
(There was no response.)
After investigation and inspection, the Board finds that the
applicant requests permission to set off lot with insufficient
area and approval of access, north side Main Road, Orient, New
York. The findings of the Board are'.bhat the Board is in agree-
ment with the reasoning of the applicant.
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance
would produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship;
the hardship created is unique and would not be shared by all
properties alike in the immediate vicinity of tSis property and
in the same use district; and the variance will not change the
character of the neighborhood, and will observe the spirit of
the Ordinance.
On motion by Mr. Grigonis, seconded by Mr. Doyen, it was
RESOLVED, Alice Donenfeld, Main Road, Orient, New York, be
GRANTED permissionato set off lot with insufficient area and
approval of access, north side Main Road, Orient, New York, as
applied for.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:
Doyen.
Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen, Grigonis,
PUBLIC Appeal No. 2328 9:120
UP' 0f James McCarthy d/b/a Aut~
Road, New York for a variance in a,
~Article III, Section 100~5
for on to construct addition with in
Location of property: south side
New York, bounded on the north by Main Road;
Bank; south and west by Wilsberg, Mattituck plumbinc
~ng.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance, legal notice of hearing, affidavits a~es~inig to
its publication in the official newspapers, notice to the appli-
cant, and disapproval from%~the Building Inspector. The Chairman
also read statement from the Town Clerk that notifiCation by
certified mail had been made to: Mattituck Plumbing & Heating;
Walt Whitman Bank. Fee paid - $15.00.
THE CHAIRMAN: This is a proposal to add, I think, 5'.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-28-
September 15, 1977
ROBERT BERGEN: 5' wide and the length of the building.
THE CHAIRMAN: The length of the building on the easterly side
of the 'building.
ROBERT BERGEN: See Charlie, what he's doing is they have a
small garage there in the back. They're going to move that away
so they can drive out back and store stuff instead of it being on
the highway. They've got to do away with that building in order
to get back there, but then he has no place to store his paints and
so forth so h~ wants to put a lean-to, more or less, onto the building.
THE CHAIRMAN; He said he was going to store most of the paint
there. Highly volatile. He's also going to clear up his driveway
on the west side of the building and eliminate that building in the
rear, a small outbuilding in the rear so that he can use his back
yard more readily. Is there anyone present who wishes to speak for
this application?
(There was no response.)
Anyone present wish to speak against this application?
(There was no response.)
After investigation and inspection, the Board finds that the
applicant requests permission to construct addition with insuffi-
cient side-yard setback, south side Main Road, Mattituck, New York.
The findings of the Board are that the Board is in agreement with
the reasoning of the applicant.
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance
would produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship;
the hardship created is unique and would not be shared by all
properties alike in the immediate vicinity of this property and
in the same use district; and the variance-will not change the
character of the neighborhood, and will observe the spirit of
the Ordinance.
On motion by Mr. Bergen, seconded by Mr. Doyen, it was
RESOLVED, James McCarthy d/b/a Auto Paint Shop, MainRoad,
MattitUck, ~ewYork~ be GRANTED permission to construct addition
with i~snfficient side-yard setback, south side Main Road, Matti-
tuck, NeW York, as applied for.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen, Grigonis,
Doyen.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-29-
September 15, 1977
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2332 - 9:25 P.M. (E.D~S.T.)
upon application of Philip and Lottie Barth, 725 Terry Lane,
Southold, New York for a variance in accordance with the Zoning
Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-32 for permission to construct
accessory building in front yard area. Location of property:
South side Terry Lane, Southold, New York, bounded on the north
by Terry Lane; east by now or formerly H. Tauben; south by Peconic
Bay; west by Southold Park District.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance, legal notice of hearing, affidavits attesting to
its publication in the official newspapers, notice to the appli-
cant, and disapproval from the Building Inspector. The Chairman
also read statement from the Town Clerk that notification by
certified mail had been made to: Harold & Sara Tauben; Southold
Park District. Fee paid - $15.00.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone present who wishes to speak
for this application which concerns a small, 10' by 12' I think
it was, building which is to be placed in the northeast corner
of the applicant's lot. It will be well screened by a very high
hedge, the hedge must be 15' high. Is there anyone present who
wishes to speak for this application?
(There was no response.)
Anyone wish to speak against this application?
(There was no response.)
What do they mean when they say there's dwellings on the
beach out there, do you know, Charlie?
CHAR~ES GRIGONIS, JR.: There's a little space, maybe 3'
or 4', then you run into sand, the beach is right there.
ROBERT BERGEN: There's a very short distance between the ...
it's corrosion, it's cut it down. You walk out of the honse and
within 10' you're on the beach.
Aft~ tion and inspection, the Board finds that
th. permission to construct accessory~building
in ~ south side Terry Lane, South01d~ Ne~ ¥0rk.
The s of the Board are that the Board is in agreement with
the reasoning of the applicant.
The Board finds that strict application of the
would produce practical difficulties or unnecessary
the.hardship created is unique and would not be sh~red by a
properties alike in the imm~diate vicinity of~his property and
in the same use district; and the variance will not change the
character of the neighborhood, and will observe the spirit of
the Ordinance.
Southold. Town Board of Appeals
-30-
September 15, 1977
On motion by Mr. Grigonis, seconded ~by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED, ~hilip and Lottie Barth, 725 Terry Lane, SouthOld,
New York, be GRANTED permission to construct accessory building
in front yard area, south side Terry Lane, Southold, New York,
as applied for, subject to the following condition:
The accessory building shallbbe no closer than 15'
to any property line.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen, Grigonis,
Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 233I - 9:30 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of Edmond Curcuru, 4 Woodhill Road, Weston,
Connecticut for a variance in accordance with the Zoning Ordinance,
Article III, Section 100-32 for permission to construct accessory
building in side and front yard area. Location of property:
Basin Road, Southold, New York; Lot 17, Map of Paradise Point.
The Chairman opened the hearing by readinq the application
for a variance, legal notice of hearing, affidavits attesting tc
its publication in the official newspapers, notice to the appli~
cant, and disapproval from the Building Inspector. The H-hairman
also read statement from the Town Clerk that notification by
certified mail had been made to: Mr. and Mrs. William Davis
and Mr. Gilman Hallenbeck. Fee paid - $15.00.
THE CHAIRMAN: It's obvious that he has a hardship. The
garage will be mainly in the side yards. Is there anyone present
who wishes to speak for this application?
(There was no response.)
Anyone present who wishes to speak against this application?
(There was no response.)
ation and inspection, the Board that the
to construct in
Basin Road, Southold, New Y The
findings that the Board is in agreement with the
rea.sonmng of the applicant.
The Board finds that strict application of the Ordinance
would produce practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship;
the hardship created is unique and would not be shared by all
properties alike in the immediate vicinity o~ this prope'rty and
in the same use district; and the variance will not change the
$outhold Town Board of Appeals
-31-
September 15, 1977
character of the neighborhood, and will observe the spirit of
the Ordinance.
On motion by Mr. ~illispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED, Edmond Curcuru, 4 Woodhill Road, Weston, Connecti-
cut, be GRANTED permission to construct accessory building in side
and front yard area, Basin Road, Southold, New York, as applied
for.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen, Grigonis,
Doyen.
On motion by Mr. Bergen, seconded by Mr. Grigonis, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals approve
minutes dated August 25, 1977.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen, Grigonis,
Doyen.
On motion by Mr. Bergen, seconded by Mr. Grigonis, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals approve
minutes dated September 2, 1977.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen, Grigonis,
Doyen.
Three (3) Sign Renewals were reviewed and approved as
submitted.
on motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Doyen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals grant
permission to the Mattituck Gun Club, Inc., to'h~ld their annual
"Turkey Shoot" on Sunday, September 18, 1977, subject to the
condition that the posters can b~ erected no sooner than bwo
weeks prior to the event and must be removed within the week
following the event.
Vote of the Board: Ayes.: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen, Grigonis,
Doyen.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-32-
September 15, 1977
~~~ ~R~' ctf lly bmitted,
M~ry/~. Dawson
S~c~ary