HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-09/15/1976 Southo Board of Appeals
U L. I., N. Y. 119'71
Telephone 765-~660
APPEAL BOARD
MEMBERS
Robert W. Giilispi¢, Jr., Chairman
Robert Ber~en
Charles Grisonis, Jr.
Ser~e Doyen, Jr.
Fred Huls¢, Jr.
MINUTES
Southold Town Board of Appeals
September 15, 1976
A special meeting of the Southold Town Board of Appeals
was held at 7:38 P~M. (E.D.S.T.), Wednesday, September 15,
1976, at the Town Office, Main Road, Southold, New York.
There
Chairman;
Messrs: Robert W. Gillispie, Jr.,
Fred Hulse, Jr.; Serge Doyen, Jr.
Sam Campbell, Suffolk Weekly Times; Sherley
Katz, Long I~si~nd~Traveler-Mattituck Watchman.
: Appeal No. 2108 - 7:35 P.M. (E~D.~.T.)
upon ap~ St. Peter's Lutheran Ch~-rch, Main Ro~d and
Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York (San Simeon by'the S~ea) for a
special exception in accordance with the Zoning Ordinanee, Arti-
cle III, ]0-30 and Bulk Schedule and requirements of
"M-l" zones for permission to erect and maintain multiple
dwelling complex including self-contained dwellings and dormitory
type dwelling units. Location of property: Main Road, Chapel
Lane, and CR27~ bounded on the north by CR27 and A. Shames and
others; eaSt b~ ~i!llage of Greenport; south by Main Road (Route
25); west by Chapel Lane.
The Chairman Op.e~ed the hearing by ation
for a special exception, legaI notice of
attesting to its publication in and
notice t6 the~pplicant.' The'~hairman also from
the notification by certified mail been made
to: Nursing Home; Village of Greenport.
THE CHAIRMAN: I might say that ~his project has been under
study for well over a year as far as the several boards of the
Town of Southold are concerned and this is the culmination. I
think I will read into the record a statement concerning St. Peter's
Evangelical Lutheran Church of Greenport, New York, submitted June
9, 1976:
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1976
"Information submitted relating to a request for a ruling
as to the tax-exemptable status of real property by said Church,
and proposed use thereof.
1. The Church is presently the owner of a 38 acre parcel
of land contiguous with the land upon which its church building
stands, and is presently seeking permission to construct upon
such land a project consisting of approximately 150 cottages and
a domiciliary facility housing approximately 84 persons, as an
adult home.
2. The purpose of this project is to provide, below market
cost, an earthly and spiritual home for elderly Lutheran person~,
and those senior citizens living in Southold Township.
3. This project~ in both operation and construction, will
be subsidized by the sponsor, the St, Peter's Lutheran Church.
To this end the congregation has already received throuqh be-
quests and fund-raising activities approx. $300,000 earmarked
for this project. In addition, the land which is presently owned
by the Church, and which will be used for this project, is ap-
praised at $650,000.
4.1 This proposed project will be operated entirely for
charitalble purposes. Rents and/or maintainence charges will be
projec~e~ and Set according to the need, after taking into con-
sidera~ion bequests and other contributions received, to achieve
a break-even Point, that is to say, no profit is expected to be
made, and no officer, member or employee will receive any pecuni-
ary pr,~fit from operations, except reasonable compensation for
services rendered. Nor will the project be,operated to credit
any profit for the Church.
5. A natura! question that might spring~ ~t~ mind is,this:
'Why does ~he Church wan~ to go to all the t~ouble to build and
operate such a complex, without any profit or rew~d?' The
answer is this: The constitution of the congregation sets forth,
in Article,X, Section 7 - Standing Committees~: ' 'There~sha~ be a
Com~ittee on Social Ministry. The purpose of~-this
be tel extend~Christian compassion and 1, the
aged, the orphaned, the underpriviliged, in
genera!~ to psrsons of~ all ages in need of aid~in,body!~o~.soul..
The congregation~believes since it has been privileqed by ~od to
become the owner of this land, it should be pu~ to use by the
congregation in some manner that would advance the charitable,
compassionate objectives of the Church to minister to the under-
privileged, (in this case, the elderly persons, of limited income)
which is part of its Christian purpose of existence. Otherwise,
the land lies vacant, of no use to anyone.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1976
6. We believe that this proposed project can qualify for
exemption from real property taxation under section 421 of the
Real Property Tax Law, in the following manner:
(a) The real property is owned by a corporation organized
exclusively for one or ~'re of the exempt purposed set
forth in the statute (i.e. religious purposes),
(b) The next requirement is that the real property be
used exclusively for exempt purposes. We believe that
the purpose intended for this property meets the test
of charitable use. Charity has been defined as '... any
act done without expectation of profit which alleviates
the condition of the handicapped or unfortunate, or tends
to forward the progress of mankind...' (Green v. Javits,
7 Mics 2d 312, 166 N.Y.S. 2d 198, see 40p Counsel SBEA
No. 109). Similarly, benevolence is "... the doing of
a kind, helpful action toward another under no obligation
except an ethical one...' (State v. Dunn, 134 N.C. 663,
46 S.E. 949, see alsc 4 Op. Cou-sel SBEA No. 109). We
believe that our objectives fall under this definition,
for the reasons set forth previously.
(c) Another requirement: 'No officer, member or employee
of the organization ~ay be entitled~ to receive any pecuni-
ary profit from its operations, except reasonable com-
pensation for services performed in furtherance, of the
corporate purposes' -- As stated previously, no one (in-
cluding the Church) will obtain or receive any profit,
income or similar, exception, of course, administrators
will be paid.
(d) The organization, and the proposed project, is not,
in any manner, a guise or pretense for making any pecu-
niary profit for any organization nor for any of its
members or employees. Its only purpose, as set forth
previously, is entirely charitable and benevolent in
nature and in pursuance of what we believe to be God's
work on earth.
7. Reference is made to 5 Op. Counsel SBEA No. 9, wherein
it is stated: 'Nonprofit organizations exemption (charitable)
(single family low-income housing) -- Real Property Tax Law, s. 421:
'The taxable status of a housing project owned by a non-
profit organitation organized for charitable purposes
depends on whether or not the project is used exclusively
for such purposes...'
We believe that the local assessor, when investigating the actual
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1976
use of the property, will satisfy himself that our p~oposed use
of the property is a necessary and integral part in carrying out
the overall corporate purposes, and, more speCifically, the
carrying out and forwardance of our work in Social Ministry, in
this case, Christian compassion and helpfulness to the aged.~
8. Based upon the facts and other information set forth
above, we hereby request of the State Board of Equalization and
Assessment an opinion as to the taxable status of the real prop-
erty which is the subject of the foregoing."
Respectfully submitted,
ST. PETER'S EVANGELICAL LUTHERAN
CHURCH OF GREENPORT, N.Y.
The tax exemption appears to be one of the things in con-
nection with this project that has concerned a lot of people.
The Sta~e Board of Equalization replied to Mr. Tasker's letter,
which I guess enclosed Rev. Coleman's letter, Mr. Tasker being
the Town Attorney.
(The Chairman read the letter from the State Board of
Equalization and Assessment to Robert Tasker, Esq.,
dated July 13, 1976.)
kttached to this letter are a number of opinions and re-
search they have done in the past on this problem. One of the
key paragraphs is:
Ne first requirement of this statute tken,~ is ~at the
as~sociation or corPoration be 'organized eX~lusiVel ' for
one or more of the exempt purposes enumerated therein. This
i~ determined by examining the purposes and object in the
Certificate of incorporation or charter is any-('Great Neck
Section, etc. v. B6ard of ~ssessors, 21 Misc.2d 142, 189
N.Y.S.2d 623; Goodwill Club of Amsterdam, New ~ork v,. City
Of Amsterdam, 31 Misc.2d 1096, 222 N~¥~S.2d 896). Inspection
of the charter of the Board of Pensions of the United Presby-
terian Church indicates that it is organized to provide
housing, pensions, and other similar benefits for retired
ministers and missionaries of the United Presbyterian Church~;~
their spouses or surviving spouses, and commissioned church
workers,"
That problem was discussed between the Planning Bo~d, the
Board of Appeals, and the Town Attorney on several occasions
and I have discussed it wit~ some other people outside the Town.
One of the t~ings that outsiders have suggested is that part of
the property be made taxable, and since this apPlication doesn't
cover all of the property, it's possible that might be used in
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1976
consideration. This is a letter that Rev. Coleman wrote on
August 26, 1976, to the Planning Board:
"As I previously advised the Planning Board of the Town of
Southold, it is the intention that the San Simeon Retirement
Community project to be undertaken by Saint Peter's Lutheran
Church will qualify for a tax exemption pursuant to the ap-
plicable provisions of the Real Property Tax Laws of the State
of New York.
Despite such tax exemption we are mindful of the fact that the
Town of Southold will still be obligated to furnish municipal
services such as police protection, fire protection, street
lighting, and many other essential services which are paid for
by the taxpayers of the Town of Southold.
Since our initial meetings with Town officials, we have indicated
that we do not intend to, in effect, impose the burden of fur-
nishing such municipal services upon the taxpayers of the Town
of Southold. To carry out such intention we have indicated that
we would make annual contributions to the Town of Southold on
such an equitable basis as would reimburse the Town for municipal
services provided to this project.
This letter is to evidence our good faith in assuring the Town of
Southold that it is the intention of Saint Peter,s Lutheran Church
of Greenport, New York, the sponsor of San Simeon By-The-Sound,
to make annual contributions to the Town of Southold."
Very truly yours,
/s/ Reverend William A. Coleman
Was this letter prepared by the Town Attorney? Because
that isn't exactly what the Town Attorney's letter said, right?
REV. COLEMAN: No, it is not exactly what he said. On
the advise of our attorney, we wrote this letter.
ROBERT BERGEN: You didn't commit yourself to anything.
REV. COLEMAN: Since we are not taxable ...
ROBERT BERGEN: You could contribute $5.00.
REV. COLEMAN: Right, but we cannot be ... well, I'm not
going to speak, I'll let my attorney speak.
THE CHAIRMAN: I jotted down, after having the letter read
to me by the Town Attorney's secretary this afternoon, what I
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1976
thought she said. It is not the intention, of the applicant to
avoid payments in support of fire, police, lighting, etc. and
other services furnished by the Town of Southold. This is just
the jist of it. Accordingly, and in spite of apparent tax exemp-
tion, it is the intention of the applicant to pay to the Town
of Southold a proportionate annual share of these Town expenses,
as determined by the Town Tax Assessor. ~-don't know whether he
had that last in the letter or not.
REV. COLEMAN: Yes, he did have it last.
THE CHAIRMAN: But your letter, with the help of your
lawyer, is a little different.
REV. COLEMAN: Just with the omission of, I think, the
last sentence, and with the idea of payments, I think it was
payments or contributions. Since we will be tax exemptable,
the way we see it, if the assessors say so, they cannot be
payments, they have to be contributions. In talking with the
local assessors, it came to our attention, too, that the pro-
ject cannot be partially taxed. It is either going to be tax
exempt or taxable after it is constructed, and to show our good
faith, if we are tax exempt, we would make contributions for
those services rendered as enumerated in the letter that I sent.
THE CHAIRMAN: But there is no obligation.
REV. COLEMAN: There would be no obligation anyway.
THE CHAIR~N: Your point is that there ~ould be no obli-
gation if the whole pro~ect is fully tax exempt.
REV. COLEMAN: There are other tax-exempt projects in the
Town that are under no obligation right now to make any contri-
bution at all. What we are doing is now probably the first time
any possibly tax-exempt organization is statinH in a letter that
they would be willing to pick up a proportionate share of those
services that they use.
THE CHAIRMAN: The i~formation I got about a Presbyterian
elderly home in New Jersey was, part of their operation was left
on the tax rolls. Now, it is Conceivable this could be done with
your operation. You have an administrative building and you're
going to have boarders there and guests o..
REV~ COLEMAN: Again, the local assessor would determine ...
THE CHAIRMAN: We'll, it may or may not be correct, I don't
think we should go into it too much at this time.
REV. COLEMAN: What we ar~ talking about is if we are tax
exempt. If we are not tax exempt, then the question is already
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1976
&nswered. If we are tax exempt, then what we want to do is we
want to make contributions for those services rendered.
THE CHAIRMAN: But you see, part of your property could be
tax exempt, and, say, five acres could be taxable.
REV. OOLEMAN: The assessors would have to set that up.
It's according to how we use it that determines whether we would
be tax exempt or not.
THE CHAIRMAN: It should be brought out here, I think, that
the remaining property is going to be used for an administration
building and a pool, right?
GEORGE KOCH: That's in the total acreage now.
REV. COLRMAN: We have it divided into three sections
according to what the Planning Board has asked for.
THE C~%AIRMAN: With the "B" zone here.
REV. COLEMAN: Right.
THE CHAIRMAN: This is a letter from John Wickham, the
Chairman of the Planning Board:
(The Chairman read the August 31, 1976, letter from Mr.
Wickham to the Board of Appeals and also the letter
from the Planning Board to George Koch, dated August
31, 1976, which contained their resolution.)
The point I was trying to bring out here for the infor-
mation of the people here in orderrto try and understand this
project as we go along. The inn ~ which, incidentally, there's
one error in the overall procedure that I discovered this after-
noon. You need a variance for the length of %he inn. That ex-
ceeds the length in the Ordinance. So whatever we do here will
have to be subject to that being applied for.
GEORGE KOCH: The original application, which is still on
file, applied for a length of building variance.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, but it wasn't advertised. The inn
will house 84 peoPle and consist of bedrooms and bathrooms with
no cooking facilities. It's for motel-type use. 84 single bed-
rooms. It's attached to a restaurant and in order to provide
easy access to the restaurant, from one building to another
during the winter months, a covered corridor is provided between
these buildings. This seemed like avery good idea to every-
body I talked to about this. The elderly people will be able
to walk from their room in that facility to the restaurant.
Southsld Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1976
While we are on the subject of the restaurant, it is solely for
the use of the residents of this whole complex.
GEORGE KOCH: That's correct.
THE CHAIRMAN: This is not a public restaurant. The houses
are located so that there is a minimum of traffic and a maximum
of open space, which is another reason for the vast number of var-
iances which the applicant has had to apply for. But in planning
this, the Planning Board thought that it was better to have this
type of plan than to have a grid-type layout. This provides more
open space and concentrates the parking in how many parking lots?
GEORGE KOCH: I don't have the exact number.
THE CHAIRMAN: 7 or 8. There's adequate parking. In some
cases there's a slight walk to the parking space, but each
dwelling unit will have a designated parking space.
Continuing with this, we have a memorandum here, getting
back to the taxable status, from the Town Attorney to several
Board Chairmen in the Town:
(The Chairman read the letter dated July 19, 1976,
from the Town Attorney.)
The variances that have been applied for here concern
themselves solely with parking and front yard setbacks in order
to create this open space atmosphere. There is no variance re-
quested for the parking by the restaurant. There will be a var-
iance for the length of the building.
I'm ready now to hear from anybody who wishes to speak for
this application~ There are a lot of things the Boards do not
understand about the project, maybe whoever speaks for the Church
can clarify it~ Things such as residency requirements, sectarian
requirements if any, would it be non-sectarian, etc.
REV. COLEMAN: Mr. Pearson has a statement he would like to
read, but I don't know if it will answer the questions you are
asking. Maybe he can read this and then you can direct some ques-
tions to us.
HENRY PEARSON: I won't read the entire statement because
it would be repetitious to a n~mber of things you've already put
into the record, but I'd like to mention a few things I think~
would be on the positive side of the project. It's easier if I
read this.
"To this end the Church will subsidize this project, and it
will be operated entirely for charitable purposes. It will, however,
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1976
not compete with any local nursing homes or homes for the elderly,
but, it Ks proposed, will work in harmonious relationship with
the neighboring Health-related facility. It will not be in direct
competition with them, but, together, they will provide a complete
spectrum of health care for those elderly persons residing with-
in San Simeon and said neighboring H.R.F."
THE CHAIRMAN: I think you should make that a little clearer.
You're not-going to compete with the Nursing Home. There's sort
of a continuous flow from unit living to domiciliary living to in-
tensive, not intensive c~re, but ...
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: It takes the spectrum from when you
first want to gi~e up your home and take things a little easier
to when you need more and more care, when you would then go f~om
our project possihl~ to the adjoining Healtk~reIated facility.
THE CHAIRMAN: I've heard people say that the State of New
York has encouraged this type of facility arrangement.
REV. COLEMAN: That's right. The State recognizes four
levels of care, and what we see is we already have two levels of
care being provided for residents of the community, and doing a
very fine job, having had the facility checked out because we were
concerned about our relationship with them. We will be having a
relationship with a very fine facility, the ratings that the Health-
related facility that Mr. Salamone and the Nursing Home that he
operates have receiVed the top-notch ratings. Even though he is
not here tonight, I think I can say this, you can check if you
wish, that he is very much in favor of our project because he sees
it as a real addition to what he's trying to do in serving the needs
of people and that in no way would we be competing with him. One
day he said to me, "You know, there are some people who are in the
Health-related facility here who really don't have to be here. If
we only had a domiciliary facility we could transfer them out and
give the needed care to those who really had the need for it."
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: If I may interrupt, we are being
pressed by the~State at the present time for people to be put
into something that is more suited to their abilities, not in
a facility providing higher care than they require in their pre-
sent state of physical abilities.
REV. COLEMAN: Mr. Pearson's expertise is not only in the
law, but he also represents the Presbyterian Home which has a
number of levels of care in Syosset.
THE CHAIRMAN: He probably knows more about the one I men-
tioned in New Jersey than I do. One other point that might be
made here is that, according to all the information I could get,
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-10-
September 15, 1976
the projects that have been planned by HUD have been uniformly
unsuccessful. The one that I've seen in Islip which apparently
was financed bY HUD, it's about the same type of facility that
you're proposing here. Being partly financed, they have a limi-
tation on the amound of rent and also the amount of income you
can have, you couldn't own any property in the Town of Islip and
live in this place.
(The Chairman then further discussed the facility in Islip.)
Go ahead, I just wanted to throw that in.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: I beg your indulgence in reading it,
but I think it would be better for the record this way. "Your
petitioner, through its officers and Board, has made a study of
the situation confronting elderly persons, Lutheran and otherwise,
who wish to remain and continue living in and about Southold.
These sen~or citizens are, in most instances, caught in a squeeze
between rzsing cost of living and, at the same time, reduced in-
come by reason of retirement. If they choose to retire and remain
on Long Island, they face possibly a drastically reduced standard
of living if they keep their present abodes. Our proposed retire-
ment community will offer to these people who, in many instances,
have lived a lifetime here, an opportunity to remain in the area,
near friends or relatives, at a cost of housing that they can bet-
ter afford than commercial apartments or the like.
Another consideration voiced by elderly citizens is this:
'What about the availability of health care, in emergencies and
otherwise?' Residence in San Simeon will relieve that burden of
worry, for medical help will be immediately available at all times."
We found that to be a considerable worry of folks that live alone,
if they suffer a sudden stroke or are otherwise taken ill, there
are no medical facilities available~
THE CHAIRMAN: You made a point just before that one, that
you will furnish facilities that people can more readily afford.
Would you elaborate on that a little bit, explain why they would
be able to more readily afford these facilities?
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: Because the profit factor would be
eliminated. The rents will be set strictly on a basis of what-
ever is needed to carry the project. It will be subsidized by
the ChurCh and Church organizations. The rent will be set so
there's no profit being made.
THE CHAIRMAN: How wide a Church backing have you got?
For the peoPle of Greenport this is a tremendous project, you
could start to run a big deficit. Do you have additional backing
outside the Church?
Southold Town Board of Appeals
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September 15, 1976
REV. COLEMAN: No, individuals have given us donations and
we hope to receive~more. The entire project is owned by the local
parishioners. The whole thing, to this point, has been put to-
gether by this congregation.
THE CHAIRMAN: Please continue, I'm~just trying to bring out
these points as we go along.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: "Other needs of residents of San Simeon
will be fulfilled: recreation, spiritual care, social well-being,
perhaps counselling, if needed, and other concerns of us all,
elderly or not, will be ministered to, through professional and/or
voluntary services, a~ through the Committee on Social Ministry of
the Church. The purpose of this committee is to extend Christian
compassion, helpfulness and ministry to those in need of help,
whiCh, in the matter at hand, we, the petitioners see it as our
Christian duty to aid the aged of limited income to live their de-
clining years in comfort and security~ We believe that since we
have been privileged by God to become the owners of this land, it
should be put to use by the congregation in some manner that would
advance the social ministry of the Church, that is, to minister to
those needing aid and comfort. Otherwise, the land lies vacant,.
of no use to anyone.
We believe that the proposed retirement complex will he an
asset to the community in building, for it will utilize~local_
labor and materials, and in its operation, for it will purchase
supplies and material locally. Of course, it Will be one of the
largest employers in the immediate area~ as well, and will be
able to offer steady, year-round, part and full time positions for
men and women of the area."
THE CHAIRMAN: What would be the employment figure?
HENRY PEARSON: I myself don't have that information, but
I guess it would be comparable to ...
REV. COLEMAN: Comparable to the Nursing Home.
THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know how many are there.
REV. COLEMAN: About 40. But they have raund-the-clock
nursing care, so I wouldn't know exactly how much.
THE CHAIRMAN: Between 40 and 50?
REV. COLEMAN: Yes, I'd say so.
THE CHAIRMAN: At how much a year?
REV. COLEMAN: I don't know.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-12- September 15, 1976
THE CHAIRMAN: Well, you'll find out when you go to hire
somebody.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: We can't estimate that at this time,
we'll just break it down, but of course ...
REV. COLEMAN: You see, what we're going to do, we're not
going tO begin with the inn, which will be probably the biggest
employer because there you will be providing meals and 24 hour
a day supervisory care. We're going to begin with the cottages
because that's where our greatest need is in terms of requests.
There we are going to need maintanence people.
THE CHAIRMAN: You'll need somebody to collect the rent, too.
REV. COLEMAN: Well, I'm sure we'll have volu~teers for that.
I mentioned this to the Planning Board, and I think you might be
interested too, that the German Festival that was run by St. Peter's
Lutheran.Church grossed close to $28,000 and over. $12~000 was netted,
and every single penny of that was put towards this project, with
matching fun~s for every part of it coming, We hope, from t~e Luth-
eran Insurance Companyas a benevolent gift. It's not just the
money, but probably the tens of thousands of dollars that people
have contributed, not only members of the Church, but also friends
in the community. It shows that not only the congretation, but
other people who see a need for this, are behind us. So this is
not my dream or the dream of a few individuals, but I think what
we see is the congregation stands firmly behind this project, is
committed to it, and has not only put its resources in terms of
dollars on the line, but has put a great deal of hours into it as
well.
THE C~RMAN: Getting back to how you can furnish housing
cheaper than other people can, for one you eliminate the profit
motive. You eliminate a large portion of taxes and this would
be a good place to say that the bulk of our taxes are school taxes,
about 60% of our real estate taxes are school taxes. About 20%,
I guess, is Town taxes. So when you talk about contributing
toward police, lighting and other services supplied by the Town,
you're talking about contributing 15 or 20% of wha~ the property
would normally be taxed at. If you have 150 residences and each
one is taxed~at $1,000 a year, th~'s $150,000. What you're talking
about is 20% of that.
REV. COLEMAN: The~e was one other thing that I wanted to
mention. Some of the figures that we've gotten from the Federal
government as to what, besid~S~providing employment, a project
like this will'do for the community. They figure 100 residences
produces in the community in terms of money spent for services,
food and so on, $1,000,000 a year for each 100 units.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
September 15, 1976
THE CHAIRMAN: It might also be said that you propose to
buy water and perhaps electricity from the Uillage of Greenport
and pay for sewage.
REV. COLEMAN: The Church already pays for all those services.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone else who would like to speak
for this application?
(The~e was no response.)
RE~. COLEMAN: I would just like to say that the ones I see
here, by their silence they're speaking for it.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone present who wishes to speak
against it?
SHERLEY ~ATZ: Sir, I don't want to speak against it, I
would like to ask a question though. You mentioned medical help
available at all times. Are you saying that there will be a med-
idal staff on the premises?
REV. COLEMAN: No, we will contract with a doctor.
THE CHAIRFLAN: Part of the administration building may be
doctor~ offices, correct?
REV. COLEMAN: No so much in the administration building, I
think we have provided in the design of the inn a medical examina-
tion room so a doctor could come in there and treat people, rather
then have people go out, maybe we could have a doctor come in and
spend one day a week there or something like that. We also pro-
vided a dentist's office. Again, it's jus~ providing a conven-
ience for the people. They would also have a right to have their
own physician, they don't have to go to the doctor we provide.
THE CHAIRMAN: There are several parts of this I think we
should inquire about. How will you determine, financially, who
enters this? I would assume that a lot of p~ople would want to
enter it.
REV. COLEMAN: In all the applications we've seen from going
%o facilities of this kind, they've all asked~for financia~ dis-
closure, confidential financial disclosure. Using actuarial tables,
what we'll try to do is, with the Projections we can make With the
best business advise possible, is to try to provide housing for
those who we think would be able to carry it. Not just carry it,
but also realizing what resourced we have at our disposal to sub-
sidize these people when, for example, they do deplete their own
resources, we already have established an endowment fund which I
think is between $3,000 and $4,000~of gifts that are specifically
designated for rent subsidies on people who, for example, might
Southold Town Board of Appeals
September 15, 1976
live beyond their actuarial life expectancy and who just might,
because of the cost of utilities and whatever, just become poverty
stricken. I think again, that the people we want to deal with
are those who have always prided themselves on paying their bills
and we will just try, in a very, very quite way,. to tell them that
everything is taken care of. I think we have the right to do this
because we already do it in the congregation. For those who have
financial problems and need help, the congregation has funds to
help them, not only missions on the other side of the world, but
to our own people, not just members of the parish but needy people
in the community. I think we have a very fine record, as our
church budget shows, for this particular kind of work.
THE CHAIRMAN: I don't mean to quibble, but you have mentioned
a figure of several thousand dollars which could be used for
granting subsidies. Assume you have 30 or 40 units, when you get
them all built, that's 150 dwelling units at around $40,000 a
piece. I don't think you can build them for less. Of course,
that wouldn't apply to the 84 motel units.
GOERGE KOCH: The entire complex, the inn, will probably
cost about $1,000,000.
THE CHAIRMAN: Well, 84 units at $10,000 would be $84~000,
so you figure you can bUild them at about $12,0007
GEORGE KOCH: Something like that.
THE CHAIRMAN: I assume you think that my figure is high
on the cottages. Alright, let's make it $30,000, that's what
it cost five years ago. 150 units at $30,000 would be $4,500,000
plus $1,000,000 for this motel unit and ~1,000,000 for site im-
provement?
GEORGE KOCH: Yes. The whole thing will cost, roughly,
$7,000,000.
THE C~IAIRMAN: Divide that by ... what do you figure you're
going to have to charge for rent? The old rule of thumb, it's
no longer any good, used to be 1% a month if you were going to
rent something.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: Once again, it will be on a break
even basis, and also, obviously, it will not be b~ilt on cash,
it will be built on mortgage money which will be privately fi-
nanced. Therefore, the rent will be a function of the expenses
in operating the place plus the interest we'll have to pay on
the mortgages.
THE CHAIRMAN: You have this $200,000 on hand, plus whatever
the land is, which gives you security for the mortgage. A per-
son going into this would make a one-time contribution?
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-15- September 15, 1976
REV. COLEMAN: Again, we haven't really set that up yet.
We've just explored different ways or'doing it.
THE CHAIRMAN: I was ~ust trying to get ak, and I think
this Board should know, some of the criteria you're going to use.
Presumably, Lutherans you will consider first, right, since this
~s a Lutheran Church project, but it will be ~on-secterian?
REV. COLEMAN: Yes. It usually breaks down, if I can use
a rule of thumb from what I've heard of other facilities, it
usually breaks down to about a 60 - 40 kind of ratio.
THE CHAIRMAN: 60% Lutheran and 40% other?
REV. COLEMAN: Yes, and that's not because quotas have been
set, that's only from what I hear about other projects. Beca~se,
obviously, if you're the sponsoring denomination, or community,
people happen to hear about it through publications and so on. For
example, we've gotten letters, because Newsday has written an art-
ic~e about it, from people saying, "I'm a Lutheran, etc., etc.,
and that's why I'm writing to you because I'd like to be in a
Lutheran sponsored project."
ROBERT BERGEN: In other words, regardless of where they
live, if they ...
REV. COLEMAN: We're going to have an Admissions Committee.
I've ~otten letters, sad, touching letters from~people who live
in fi~e-Story Walk-ups in Manhattan, because the'Da~ly News ran
~omet~ing on this, they picked it up from our locaI Paper. i
~hink!what we're trying to do here, again, is !e~elope the commun-
itY t~o, and we'~re not going to provide psy, and
~djus%ment. to people!who have li lives
· n one envi~ in our opinion, cannot make the ust-
ment to liw her~. I think what we're really talking is
ters you've had but obviously it says, if no~hing else,
that there is a need for this kind of housing for elderly people.
Also, I think a lot of people feel very good about the fact
that the Lutheran Church is sponsoring it ~ecause the Lutheran
Church has had a very fine record, not only in this community but
I think in other communities as well, when they do something, they
do it right and they stand behind the project and operate it in
a very fine manner.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-16-
September 15, 1976
THE CHAIRMAN: You'll generate some of your own finances
assuming that you start out with, say, 10 units. Presumably,
each one of those 10 or 12 that come in, maybe not allQof them,
but most of them will put down ten, fifteen, or twenty thousand
dollars.
REV. COLEMAN: If that's the way we decide to do it.
THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know how else you could raise the
money.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: We're exploring that possibility
along with selling building bonds or notes to the public, pre-
sumably Lutherans, but a~so to anyone who cares to buy them as
an investment, which we would clear with the S.E.C. and the
Attorney General.
THE CHAIRMAN: But if a person could go in there with that
much money, is it likely that they'd have enough income to sup-
port your rent? We never have gotten a ground figure, which
might be $200, $300 or more, I don't know.
REV. COLEMAN: I think what Mr. Pearson is saying is we
have to be able to pay our bills without making a profit. That's
what we're going to do and whatever that bottom line comes out to,
I think it's obvious that it's going to be lower than the market
of commercial housing because, first of all, we're not making a
profit, we'll probably have a lot of services, well I can't say
we'll have services donated, but we've had a lot of services do-
nated up to this point in putting the project together. It has
to be cheaper than what someone else who wanted to do the same
thing would have to charge.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: By the same token, it obviously can't
be for nothing.
THE CHAIRMAN: One of our obligations here is to consider
what would happen if you people fail. We'd be left with this
whole thing, and the Lutheran Church could sell it. We've had
that.happen before.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: We'll have to work it so that it will
carry itself.
THE CHAIRMAN: You can't build anything until you make all
the site improvements, is that correct?
G~ORGE KOCH: We're studying the possibility of doing this
in stages without all the site improvements, starting at the sewer
and working our way back into the site as we go along. You will
not get the exposure of $7,000,000 initially.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
September 15, 1976
THE CHAIRMAN: The $1,000,000 plus for site improvement,
you'won't get that initially, in full.
GEORGE KOCH: Nor will you get the inn, which we talked
about before.
THE CHAIRMAN: And I suppose you really can't tell how
long this will take to build.
Is the~e anyone else who wishes to speak for this appli-
cation? Are there anyone questions?
WILLIAM BUESCHEL: In view of the popularity of places
such as Leisure Village and Leisure Knolls and the places in
Jersey and several others that come to mind, there seems to be
a pretty good prognosis for this sort of venture.
THE CHAIRMAN: I've been to Leisure Village several times
and talked to them and been all through it and it's a very su¢-
cessful~, project, but it's a profit-making organization. They
get certain cost economies due to the fact that they have this
community approach to everything.
(The Chairman discussed the facilities at Leisure Village.)
That's something I ment to ask you, will it be a cor-
poration that runs this?
REV. COLEMAN: St. Peter's Church.
THE CHAIRMAN: I see.
(The Chairman again discussed Leisure Village.)
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: I think what you're saying is that
there's more money to be invested in those projects, but that is
not necessarily untrue of the people who will come into San
Simeon.
THE CHAIRMAN: That's why I was trying to get some idea of
what the criteria will be for entrance. I thi~k thelB0ard has to
have an idea, it's conceivable that this could so far out in
left field that the Board, in it's
it down. We have turned down applic , even though we're
not enginsers, because they just didn't look sensible, which is
one of the reasons why I'm asking all these questions.
REV. COLEMAN: With the applications, our bank friends tell
us, we should get a sm~ll deposit with those applications as a
good faith commitment on the part of the people. ~he banks will
be very happy to lend money on those because we know then that
Southold Town Board of Appeals
September 15, 1976
these people will be occupying those units. We also certainly
don't want to build something that is not rentable.
THE CHAIRMAN: I'm not sure that I follow you.
REV. COLEMAN: An application for admission is sent out,
and usually what church-sponsored, senior citizen housings do
is they ask for a deposit, a small amount which is not refund-
able in case the person, after they're approved for admission,
decides not to come in, but if they do come in, then the money
is applied to the entrance fee. Our bank friends tells us that
if ~e got $1,000 of which $950 was refundable, this is a good
faith commitment that these people are not just saying, "I'm
interested in housing, but come and see me when you get it built
and then I'll decide." These people are saying, "Yes, we want
to be part of the San Simeon community and to show our good ~aith
that we are, and that as soon as it is built we will be ready to
occupy it, we are enclosing our check for ..." It will be held
in escrow.
THE CHAIRMAN: That's where you leave me. The $1,000 is a
good faith item, you know the man is serious, and from what you
lust said, $50 of it will be surrendered if he decides not to go
through with it.
REV. COLEMAN: The way they usually work it, if a person is
rejected, they receive everything back.
THE CHAIRMAN: That is to enter a, say, $30,000 dwelling.
What in addition to the $1,000 will be required?
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: It's according to how you do it.
Many places do it this way just on a rental basis, they prorate
that $1,000 over 12 months rent.
THE CHAIRMAN: And your rents will be projected based on ...
REV. C0LEFLAN: Exactly. What this is, ~hen you go to a
lending institution, whether it be to the Lutheran Insurance Co.
or to a regular bank, you can show them applications of a¢~ceptance
and also moneY'held in escrow of people who want the first 30
units or so that are going to be buil~. For~example,. when a
church is going to build a building or an addition on a building,
we have a ple~e drive. Those pledges are accepted by the"bank
because people's names are on them, even though they're n~t
legally binding, as good faith commitments. Again,' if a~n~one~
looks at t~e way St. Peter's Church in Greenport is managed and
at what St. Peter's has been able to do in the past 13 years,
I think we're probably one of the best managed churches in the
community, we're not foolish with our money, and we do not make
any money through commercial ventures, bazaars, rummage sales,
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-19-
September 15, 1976
or anything like that. Every single penny .that supports that
Church comes on Sunday morning through the free-will offering
of the people and any commercial thing we do, whether it be a
German Festival or a Harvest Festival, has to be done with the
idea that the money is given away. In this case, the money is
being given to a project of the Church, but the Church is not
supported, that building has not been paid for in 12 years by
any fund raising effort except the free-will giving of people
on Sunday morning. That's the way we operate.
THE CHAIRMAN: Getting back to the point you made earlier,
most people would make a substantial contribution in order to
get a dwelling unit.
REV. COLEMAN: It amounts to the same thing. If a person
puts up $10,000, then what it means is their carrying charges
are reduced proportionately.
THE CHAIRMAN: But suppose they borrow $10,000, then their
carrying charges are increasing.
REV. COLEMAN: The point is, then we'd have to borrow it
in their place, and we'd have to charge them. That might be
part of the disclosure, too, on the application.
ROBERT BERGEN: So if they put up the $10,000, that is
used so much a month?
P~V. COLEMAN: It means that we don't have to go to the
marketplace to borrow that initial money.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: In other words, they're investing in
the project itself.
THE CHAIRMAN: But they have no piece of paper, they have
no bond.
REV. COLEMAN: They's have the right to live there for the
rest of their lives.
THE CHAIRMAN: The moral right.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: And also the legal right.
THE CHAIRMAN: How will they have a legal right?
REV. COLEMAN: B'ecause we'll give them a contract.
THE CHAIRMAN: You'll have to have pretty accurate disclosure
to make sure that you get tenants that can pay the rent.
SouthOld Town Board of Appeals
-20~
September 15,-1976
BARBARA EDEEN: I don't think that we are planning to take
in the very poor, the Welfare people. 1 t~in~ most of the people
will be able to afford whatever we charge.
REV. COLEMAN: We're providing a service of caring for
people, but we also have to be realistic in that if we can't
afford to care for them, then there's no care at all. So we
have to know, through some disclosure, what ...
ROBERT BERGEN: Who's on Medicare and so forth.
REV. COLEMAN: Right, for those kind of things. What we're
thinking, as Mr. Gillispie said, is that we don't know what the
future has in store in terms of what electricity or oil heat is
going to cost 15 years from now. I mean we might take a person
in and all of a sudden discover that, in 15 years, they've used
up, because of the high cost of living, all their resources.
That's why we're preparing for that, building an endowment fund
through gifts and charitable fund-raising efforts, the fund's to
be able to subsidize people who might find themselves, even after
the best of planning, in financial straights. I don't think there's
anything worse, I deal with elderly people all the time, for an
elderly person who's always paid his own way, to have to go go the
State or to any governmental agency. I know people in my parish
who will not, even though they have just a few dollars, take any-
thing from Medicare, they insist on paying the doctors' bills
and will not sign any forms in the doctor's office because that's
"Welfare."
THE CHAIRMAN: One thing I'd like to discuss is Welfare
occgpants. What about people who are on Welfare, or people who
could go on Welfare after they get in there? Another thing is,
I believe that this is supposed to be childless, no children.
How do you propose to keep children out?
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: By a rule that no one with children
under a certain age would be allowed in. Hhat means young
children, obviously older children would be alright.
ROBERT BERGEN: What do you mean by older children?
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: Teenage children.
THE CHAIRMAN: That wouldn't be legal if you were accepting
aRy public funds. BUt you're not, so you can arbitrarily rule
that this project cannot have children in it, unless you lose con-
trol of it and have to sell it. As far as Welfare is concerned
you can't discriminate against Welfare.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: As we said a few minutes ago~ the
people we're looking for, generally speaking, own their homes,
sell it, make a substantial payment to enter San Simeon, and
Southold Town Board of Appeals
September 15, 1976
then, generally, have a fairly substantial amount of Social
Security coming in which would be, if not the entire carrying
charge, then at least a large part of it. We don't have any
figures as yet, of course, but we believe that the Social Se-
curity that most people will collect will pay a~large part of
the monthly carrying charges. And, of course, by reason of re-
quiring a substantial downpayment, that will eliminate people
starting out on Welfare. It's conceivable, of course, that they
may run out of money and possibly the pensions they receive will
not equal the carrying charges at some time in the future. What
happens at the Presbyterian Home is that the people go onto Social
Service, Welfare if you will, but they remain in the same status
that they always were. Fees are paid for them, or the difference
is made up, and no other resident knows anything about it. They
do not, and we do not intend to, take people in directly on Wel-
fare. If they should happen to suffer reduced circumstances per-
haps they will go on Welfare, we hope not, but it's a possibility.
But I don't believe it will change the character of the institu-
tion if Welfare made up the difference.
THE CHAIRMAN: I'm just trying to bring up all the possibil-
ities here.
REV. COLEMAN: By the Church having control, the Church is
setting the whole tone for the operatiOn of the project.
BARBARA EDEEN: If you go back several years, well, not
too many years, we had none of this. We didn't have the land
except where the Church is. We didn't have the $200,000 and
we didn't have the endowment fund. That's a big step we've
taken in two, maybe three, years. I really think that the com-
mitmen~ of the people of the Church is there.
RE~. C0~EMAN: The point is that many of them will never
live in this at all.
THE CHAIRMAN: I understand that, and some of the people
who move into it won't live too long. You don't have an average
projected age, do you? Obviously, it's much shorter ~han other
people, ~so in ten or fifteen years you might have the same place
occupied by several different people.
REV. COLF24AN: Then the price of the uni~~ becomes much
more reduced and we're able, hopefully, to add on.
THE C~AIRMAN: Don't you expect to throw the money that you
take in into the general fund that operates this complex?
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: We may be required to apply it to
the reduction of the mortgages, but that will have to be worked
out with the banks..
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-22-
September 15, 1976
REV. COLEMAN: I think again that if a man retires at
60 ... I have a man in my parish who drives the Plum Island
ferry two hours a day, he's 70 years old. He's doing it not
because he wants to do it, he has to do it to make ends meet.
THE CHAIRMAN: Do you expect to have a cut-off point on
net worth? This is one of the things they had up in Islip.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: Floor or maximum?
THE CHAIRMAN: Maximum, you can't be worth over so much.
REV. COLEMAN: That's because of government subsidy.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: I can't see that we would have that
problem because it would be so much the better for us. The
more a man is worth, the more likely he will be to be able to
continue ...
REV. COLEMAN: On the other hand, most people who are
wealthy people would not want a situation like this because
most people want to keep their independence as long as pos-
sible and we know many in this community that can afford to
have everything done, who are just delighted to keep their
own homes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Well, I've talked to quite a few who would
be happy to move into a situation such as yours while they could
well afford to stay where they are. They're tired of cutting
grass, etc.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: As I stated before, that is one of
their things.
THE CHAIRMAN: And that would be alright with you?
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: Provided he meets the age qualification.
REV. COLEMAN: And also one of the reasons why we'll have
an admissions committee is to probe motivation. If we feel
somebody's coming in who could well afford to pay to have every-
thing done, he would have to give me a pretty good reason why
he would want to be in here.
THE CHAIRMAN: Because he doesn't want to cut grass or
pick up twigs.
REV. COLEMAN: Why does he have to cut it in the first place?
He can afford to pay for it.
THE CHAIRMAN: A lot of them consider that it's a duty
you were born with or something.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-23-
September 15, 1976
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone else who wishes Go speak
for this appl±cation?
(There was no response.)
If not, is there anyone presen~ who wishes to speak against
this application?
(There was no response.)
Well, we're not able to decide this tonight because it
will have to go to the Suffolk County Planning Commission for
their suggestions and approval or disapproval, and if they ap-
prove it, then it will be up to us to approve or diSapprove it.
If they disapprove it, then this Board will have to have a
majority plus one, four, to approve it contrary to the Planning
Commission%s recommendations. They usually like to get some
input into the original planning, particularly on a complex
project like this. One of the things that concerns me a little
bit about it is a charge that could be made against the Board
of Appeals that we are, in effect, changing the Ordinance of the
Town of Southold by granting a number of variances for setbacks
and parking. The reason for these variance applications is to
accumulate open space and use it intelligently and I think that
the architect has done an excellent job. Rather than to just
impose a grid-iron pattern over the area, streets and houses
and everything else, you've got it located to catch~the sun and
with convenient parking.
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ.: I think it might be important to
point out that these are all privately owned roads, they're not
County or State roads, they're within a privately-owned complex.
THE CHAIRMAN: One of the questions Mr. Bergen asked is if
the restaurant has enough parking in relation to the seats.
GEORGE KOCH: We went over that very carefully and we've
provided additional parking for the employees as well as seating
for the restaurant.
THE CHAIRMAN: There's one parking space required for each
four people.
GEORGE KOCH: That's right, we have 280 parking spaces pro-
vided for on the site.
THE CHAIRMAN: On the motel site?
GEORGE KOCH: On the entire site.
THE CHAIRMAN: What's the parking for the restaurant?
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-24-
September 15, 1976
GEORGE KOCH: There's about 40 parking spaces in the rear
adjacent to tke Nursing Home. We've also provided parking for
each living unit.
THE CHAIRMAN: Parking for the motel can be furnished over
here (on map) but, in general, you won't expect that people
living in the motel will get out very often. However, ~here is
'plenty of space here where you propose to furnish th~ss 40
parking spaees applicable to the restaurant. Now, if a fellow
lives over here in one of these buildings, where does he park
his car?
GEORGE KOCH: In the area that's green on the plan.
(The Board and Mr. Koch discussed the parking facilities.)
We've tried to provide the parking as close to the facil-
ity as possible. Everything is reached by the covered walk on
the single level.
WILLIAM PFEFFER: I don't think you should call it a
restaurant. Each time you make reference to a restaurant, in
my mind I always think of a place where the public is admitted.
I think we should refer to it as the dining hall, rather than
the restaurant, because it could mislead someone if they heard
there was a restaurant on the premises.
FRED HULSE, JR.: Will everybody living in the complex
eat in the dining hall?
REV~ COLEMAN: The people in the inn will, not in the whole
complex. But if Mrs. Jones goes up to Smithaven to shop and her
husband doesn't know how to boil water, he could call and only if
space is available would they allow him to eat there.
THE CHAIRMAN: How many chairs did you say there would be
in the dining hall?
GEORGE KOCH: Enough to seat the people in the domiciliary
who have to eat there.
(The Board and Mr. KoCh again discussed the parking
facilities.)
SERGE DOYEN, JR.: How many living units are there outside
of the inn?
GEORGE KOCH: 150 cottage units.
REV. COLEMAN: It works out to about 1-1/2 persons per
cottage. The majority of them are one bedroom.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-25-
September 15, 1976
FRED HULSE, JR.: Will guests be accommodated in the dining
hall if they come to visit?
REV. COLEMAN: Only on a space available basis. It's the
same thing that's done at the Nursing Home, if Mrs. JOnes, who
is not a resident, comes to visit her husband, if they can ac-
commodate her, they will provide her with a meal. Again, it is
not open to the general public.
THE CHAIRMAN: If a visitor came, if a son or daughter
came to 9isit somebody in one of these houses, they might want
to stay down here, righ~
REV. COLEMAN: The cottages have kitchens. They'll go to
Mother's and have her cook a meal for them.
GEORGE KOCH: There's 124 one-bedroom units and 26 two-
bedroom units.
THE CHAIRMAN: Now, the faciliiies that are going to be
furnished over here (on map).
GEORGE KOCH: They're in the administration building. Nine
of them.
THE CHAIRMAN: Nine in the admimistration building. You'll
charge for their occupancy, right?
REV. COLEMAN: It'll be a donation to cover the cost. That
will not be open to ~he general public, only to Mrs. Jones' son
and daughter who come to visit. If they come and Mrs. Jones has
a one-bedroom unit, she can't put her children up, so where do
they stay?
SERGE DOYEN, JR.: The children aspect of it is a bit dis-
terbing. You see so many grandparents today raising their grand-
children, and if you've got that about children in your rules,
how hard and fast can you be?
REV. COLEMAN: We've got to be hard and fast. The reason
why it has to be that way is because you can't jeopardize other
people who have come in here with the understanding that there
would be no children. I don't think it's fair. You have buildings
sharing a common wall, and these buildings are not being designed
for children to be raised in. Don't get me wrong, the children
can come and visit, but they cannot take up residence.
FRED HULSE, JR.: May I ask where you plan to start? In
ot~er words, you're going to build 10. Where are they?
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-26-
September 15, 1976
REV COLEMAN: We're going to build, hopefully, 10%.
GEORGE KOCH: We hope to start right over here (on map).
That minimizes the grading and also the length of the sewer,
water supply and so forth.
THE CHAIRMAN: Do you have any arrangement with suppliers
yet?
GEORGE KOCH: No.
THE CHAIRMAN: This will be distributed locally, right?
GEORGE KOCH: Yes, as much as possible.
FRED HULSE, JR.: Just out of curiosity, what's the figure
on running the sewerage line now? About three years ago, it was
around $45,000 a mile.
REV. COLEMAN: We're in the process of computing that now.
It's still cheaper for us to hoo~ into that sewer.
GEORGE KOCH: We're a mile and a half away from it, so
it'll be around $90,000.
SHEP~EY KATZ: If they hook into the line of the Nursing
Home, then actually the Nursing Home's going to get a rebate on
their initial investment.
FRED HULSE, JR.: That would be correct because that's a
private line.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESOLVE
DECISION upon application Of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York for a special excep-
tion to erect and maintain multiple dwelling complex including
self-contained dwellings a~d dormitor~type dwelling unit.
The Board indicated that, in general, 'they looked favorably
on the project and suggested a resolution approving it condi-
tioned upon the following:
1. The applicant sha~l file for a variance on the
length of the domiciliary.
The dining facility, which is attached to the
domiciliary, shall be used only by residents
and guests of San Simeon and shall not be open
to the general public.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-27-
September 15, 1976
3. The applicant shall pay a proportionate share of
Town expenses in lieu of taxes.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: G±llispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2107 9:20 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main Road and
Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York (San Simeon by the Sound) for
a variance in accordance with.the Zoning Ordinance, Article III,
Section 100-30 & Bulk Schedule and requirements of "M-I" and "B"
zones for permission to reduce setback on building ~74 on the
site plan of San Simeon by the Sound. Location of property:
Main Road, Chapel Lane, and CR27, bounded on north by CR27 and
A. Shames and others; east by Village of Greenport; south by
Main Road (Route 25); west by Chapel Lane.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance, legal notice of hearing, affidavits attesting
to its publication in the official newspapers, and notice to the
applicant. The Chairman also read statement from the Town Clerk
that notification by certified mail had been made to: Village
of Greenport; Eastern Suffolk Nursing Home.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded ~y Mr. Hulse, and
regularly carried it was RESOLVED to dispense with the formal
reading of the legal notice and the affidavits attesting to
its publication in the official newspapers~for all of the re-
maining variances. It was noted that all the variances were
listed in the legal notice which was pub~ished'in~the~official
newspapers of the Town. ' -
THE CHAIRMAN: Building 974 is what?
GEORGE KOCH: It's a cottage unit.
THE CHAIRMAN: I don't understand this part of the appli-
cation. "Due to the steep grade and poor drainage, we request
relief for length of buildings. Buildings ha~e been joined to-
gether to allow for flow between buildings on one level and en-
closed."
GEORGE KOCH: That is p~rt of the application for the domi-
ciliary. Building 74 is for the front yard variance~ This
other was part of the original application where I had everything
altogether on one. So-you can stop after reading "building 74"
because we are not considering front yard parking, which is on
another application.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-28-
September 15, 1976
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, and
regularly carried, it was RESOLVED to eliminate sentences 4,
5, and 6, paragraph 91 of the applicant's reasoning, Appeal
No. 2107.
George Koch initialled the application, approving the
change.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone present who wishes to speak
for this application?
HENRY PEARSON, ESQ,: Our reasoning has already been
explained.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone present who wishes to speak
a~a±nst this application?
(There was no response.)
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Hulse, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERV-E
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York, Appeal No. 2107.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:
Hulse, Doyen.
Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2186 - 9:25 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church for a variance
for permission to reduce setback on Building ~40, site plan
of San Simeon by the Sound.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance.
On motion be Mr. Bergen, seconded by Mr. Hulse, and regu-
larly carried, it was RESOLVED to eliminate s~entences 4 and 5,
paragraph $1 of the applicant's reasoning, Appeal No. 2186.
Geor~ai~ch approved the change and initialled the appli-
cation.
On motion by Mr. Hutse, seconded by Mr. Doyens, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York, Appeal No. 2186.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
Septemb~ 15, 1976
The Board indicated that they looked favorably upon the appli-
cation and suggested a resolution approving it conditioned
upon the following:
The building shall be no closer than 35' to the front
yard line.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2187 - 9:28 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of st. Peter's Lutheran Church for a vari-
ance for permission to reduce setback on Building #27, site
plan of San Simeon by the Sound.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance.
On motion by Mr. Doyen, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York, Appeal No. 2187.
The Board indicated that they looked favorably upon the appli-
cation and suggested a resolution approving it conditioned
upon the following:
The building shall be no closer than 35' to the front
yard line.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gitlispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2188 - 9:32 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church for a vari-
ance for permission to reduce setback on Building ~75, site
plan of San Simeon by the Sound.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance.
On motion by Mr. Bergen, seconded by Mr. Gillispie, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York, Appeal No. 2188~
The Board indicated that they looked favorably upon the
Southold Town Board of Appeals -30- September 15, 1976
application and suggested a resolution approving it conditioned
upon the following:
The building shall be no closer than 35' to the front
yard line.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING:' Appeal No. 2189 9:35 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church for a variance
for permission to reduce setback on Building ~42, site plan
of San Simeon by the Sound.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Hulse, and
regularly carried, it was RESOLVED, sentences 4, 5, and 6,
paragraph 91 of the applicant's reasoning, Appeal No. 2189
be eliminated.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Doyen, it was
RESOLVED that the South01d Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road, Greenport, New York, Appeal No. 2189. The Board indicated
that they looked favorably upon the application and suggested a
resolution approving it conditioned upon the following.
The building shall be no closer than 35' to the front
~ard~line.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:
Hulse, Doyen.
Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2190 9:38 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church for a variance
for permission~to reduce setback on Building 910, site plan
of San Simeon by the Sound.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance.
On motion by Mr. Bergen, seconded by Mr. Hulse, and
regularly carried, it was RESOLVED that sentences 4 and 5,
paragraph ~1 of the applicant's reasoning, ~ppeal No. 2190,
be eliminated.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
September 15, 1976
George Koch approved the change and initialled the appli-
cation.
On motion by Mr. Bergen, seconded by Mr. Doyen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York; Appeal No. 2190.
The Board indicated that they looked favorably upon the appli-
cation and suggested a resolution approving it conditioned
upon the following:
The building shall be no closer than 35' to the front
yard line.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2191 - 9:42 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church for a variance
for permission to reduce setback on Building %15, site plan of
San Simeon.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York; Appeal No. 2191.
The Board indicated that they looked favorably upon the appli-
cation and suggested a resolution approving it conditioned
upon the following:
The building shall be no closer than 35' to the front
yard line.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2192 - 9:45 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church for a variance
for permission to reduce setbaek on Building ~30, site plan
of San Simeon by the Sound.
The Chairman opened the~hearing by reading the appli-
cation for a variance.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-32-
September 15, 1976
On.motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Doyen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals P~ESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran ChurCh, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York; Appeal No. 2192.
The Board indicated that they looked favorably upon the appli-
cation and suggested a resolution approving it conditioned
upon the following:
The building shall be no closer than 45' to the front
yard line.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2193 9:48 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church for a variance
for permission to reduce setback on Building ~32, site plan
of San Simeon by the Sound.
The Chairman opened the hearing by =eading the application
for a variance.
On motion by Mr. Bergen, seconded by Mr. Gillispie, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York: Appeal No. 2193.
The Board indicated that they looked favorably upon the appli-
cation and suggested a resolution approving it conditioned
upon the following:
The building shall be no closer than 35' to the front
yard line.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs$ Gillispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2194 - 9:50 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church for a variance
for permission to reduce setback on Building ~26, site plan
of San Simeon.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the appli-
cation for a variance.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-33-
September 15, 1976
On motion by Mr. Doyen, seconded by Mr. Bergen, and regu-
larly carried, it was RESOLVED that sentences 4, 5, and 6,
paragraph ~1 of the applicant's reasoning, Appeal No. 2194
be eliminated.
George Koch approved the change and initialled the
application.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York; Appeal No. 2194.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2195 - 9:52 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main Road and
Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York (San Simeon by the Sound) for
a variance in accordance with the Zoning Ordinance, Article III,
Section 100-30 & Bulk Schedule and requirements of "M-l" and "B"
zones for permission to locate parking in front yard area for
Buildings #27, 28, and 75, site plan of San Simeon by the Sound.
Location of property: Main Road, Chapel Lane, and CR27, bounded
on north by CR27 and A. Shames and others; east by Village of
Greenport; south by Main Road; west by Chapel Lane.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the appli-
cation for a variance.
THE CHAIRMAN: Six spaces for three buildings, I assume
they're two unit buildings.
GEORGE KOCH: That's correct.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road, Greenport, New York; Appeal No. 219~.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:
Hulse, Doyen.
Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2196 9:55 P.M. (E.D.S.T.I
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church for a variance
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-34~
September 15, 1976
for permission to, locate parking in front yard area for Buildings
91, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6, site plan of San Simeon by the Sound.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance.
THE CHAIRMAN: If anyone wants to speak for or against
these applications, just speak up as we go along.
On motion by Mr. Hulse, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York; Appeal No. 2196.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2197 - 9:58 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church for a variance
for permission to locate parking in front yard area for Buildings
~25, 22, 23, 15, 14 and 21. ~
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance.
FRED HU~SE, JR.: Will any of this parking be covered?
GEORGE KOCH: Yes, some of it, but none of the covered
area will be in the front y~d.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York; Appeal No. 2197.
VOte of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
-PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2198 - 10:02 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
uPon application Of St. Peter's Lutheran Church for a variance
for permission to locate parking in front yard area for Buildings
~34, 29, 33, 31, 55, 56, 57, 58, and 61.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
-35~
September 15, 1976
On motion by Mr. G±llispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York; Appeal No. 2198.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
Hulse, ~oyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2199 - 10:05 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church for a variance
for permission to locate parking~ in front yard area for Buildings
~24 and 26, site plan of San Simeon by the Sound.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the appli-
cation for a variance.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York; Appeal No. 2199.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:
Hulse, Doyen.
Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2200 10:08~P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church for a variance
for permission to locate parking in front yard area for Buildings
941, 42, 45, and 40.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance.
On motion by Mr. Hulse, seconded by Mr. Doyen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold TowR Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road~and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York; Appeal No. 2200.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
~36~
September 15, 1976
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2201 ~ 10:10 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon applicationfof St. Peter's Lutheran Church~for a variance
for permission to locate parking ~n front yard area for Buildings
971, 72, 66, 67, 70 and 69. ~
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York; Appeal No. 2201.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 2202 - 10:12 P.M. (E.D.S.T.)
upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Churck for a variance
for permission to locate parking in front yard area for ~esidents
Df the Inn.
The Chairman opened the hearing by reading the application
for a variance.
On motion by Mr. Gillispie, seconded by Mr. Bergen, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Board of Appeals RESERVE
DECISION upon application of St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Main
Road and Chapel Lane, Greenport, New York; Appeal No. 2202.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: - Messrs: Gillispie, Bergen,
Hulse, Doyen.
The meeting was adjourned at 10:15 P.M.
(E.D.S.T.)
ResDDctfulty submitted
Ma~y ~. Dawson
Secretary
Robert W. GilliS~±e, Jr.i Chairman