HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-10/14/2021 Hearing
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TOWN OF SOUTHOLD ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK: STATE OF NEW YORK
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TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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Southold Town Hall & Zoom Webinar Video Conferencing
Southold, New York
October 14, 2021
5:00 P.M.
Board Members Present:
LESLIE KANES WEISMAN - Chairperson/Member
PATRICIA ACAMPORA – Member
ERIC DANTES – Member
ROBERT LEHNERT – Member
NICHOLAS PLANAMENTO – Member
KIM FUENTES – Board Assistant
WILLIAM DUFFY – Town Attorney
ELIZABETH SAKARELLOS – Office Assistant
DONNA WESTERMAN – Office Assistant
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
INDEX OF HEARINGS
Hearing Page
The Enclaves Hotel and Restaurant #7046SE 3 - 56
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Motion to open the meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals, is there
a second?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. This meeting is open. Welcome everyone and thank you all for
joining us this evening. I’m going to begin opening this meeting with an explanation about what
the purpose of this is and a few other things before we turn it over to the applicant and the rest
of those in attendance. The purpose of this meeting is to listen to the applicant and their
presentation and to receive input from the public both those who are here at the meeting hall
and the overspill space out there and those who are participating on Zoom who wish to be
heard on a Special Exception Permit application #7406 for the Enclaves Hotel and Restaurant
which in addition to a required Zoning Board of Appeals approval also require should this go
forward site plan approval from the Town Planning Board. I’m going to organize this evening’s
meeting in a way that’s four fold, four parts. The first thing I’m going to do is explain the
process of everything that has happened so far today. A lot of people are unaware of the steps
that have been taken and the steps that are legally required. So I would like to review those for
the record and then after I’m going to ask the Town Attorney Bill Duffy to review for everyone
the Special Exception Permit standards and criteria and other matters to be considered that the
applicant has to address in making their case for approval and that the Zoning Board has to use
in order to make its determination. Third, I’m going to go over a few rules about how we will
conduct this hearing this evening. Fourth and finally I’m going to ask the applicant to make his
presentation followed by questions and comments from anyone else who wishes to address
this Board. So let me begin with this background review on the Enclaves. I know this is
complicated, it’s not easy to follow. I’ll read slowly but the important point is that it is in the
record and that you all understand. SEQR is so complex and why it’s so lengthy. The Enclaves
application for a forty four room hotel and a conversion of an existing two family dwelling into a
seventy four seat sit down restaurant has been before the Zoning Board since 2017. That’s
when the ZBA received the application from Andrew Giambertone and Associates Architects on
behalf of the client and property owner 56655 Main St. LLC c/o Jonathan Tibett. The subject
6.75 acre property is located on the north side of Main Rd. NYS Route 25, it’s about 90 feet +/-
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
west of the intersection of Main Rd. and Town Harbor Lane across the street from 7-Eleven
convenience store. The property address is as I said 56655 Route 25 in Southold the tax map
no. is section 63 block 3 lot 15 and the property is located in the Hamlet Business zone district.
No decision on any application of any kind at all that comes before the Zoning Board can be
made without first having in place a SEQR determination. That’s a determination according to
the state environmental quality review act of New York State and we have to make that
determination before approvals or denials can take place. The SEQR findings for the proposed
Enclaves Hotel and Restaurant was just recently completed and I’ll now review for the record all
the steps that the applicant and the Zoning Members have taken in order to do that. First of all,
in 2017 the ZBA assumed the role of Lead Agency on this application, classified the project as a
Type I Action under SEQR and found the project had potential to result in one or more
significant environmental impacts if not properly mitigated. As a result a Positive Declaration
was issued by the ZBA on November 16, 2017 requiring the preparation of a Draft
Environmental Impact Statement. The ZBA then conducted a coordinated review with many
involved agencies from PSE&G to D.O.T. to Suffolk County Planning, a whole range of them
were involved and they did not disagree that we should have Lead Agency. They determined
that it was for a local determination and then we issued a Final Scope dated April 19, 2018 for
the required Draft Environmental Impact DEIS. So the applicant then submitted that first draft
the DEIS dated April of 2019 to the ZBA which was revised pursuant to several ZBA comments.
The last revised DEIS was dated October 2019 and it was determined to be adequate with
respect to its scope and content for the purpose of filing, distribution and commencing public
review. The DEIS notice of completion was as required by law published in the NYS Department
of Environmental Conservation Environmental Notice Bulletin (ENB) on October 16, 2019
provided a public comment period until November 18, 2019. A public hearing was then held on
this application on November 7, 2019 and the ZBA elected to extend the written comment
period to December 9, 2019. The applicant prepared a Final Environmental Impact Statement
FEIS in response to comments and questions received during the document review period from
the public and from the Zoning Board and after several revisions on August 19, 2021 the ZBA
accepted the revised FEIS as complete provided a twenty two day public and agency
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consideration period from August 20 to September 10 of this year and a Notice of FEIS
completion and acceptance was published in the ENB on September 1 of this year. A SEQR
Findings Statement for the proposed action was then prepared by the Zoning Board’s
consultant which we have had through all of this process, someone from Nelson, Pope and
Voorhies that was found to adequately reflect the findings and conclusions of the Town of
Southold Zoning Board of Appeals and that complies with the decision making and findings
requirements set forth by Chapter 617.11 of 6 NYCRR Part 617 State Environmental Quality
Review. Finally, as noticed on the October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting Agenda of the Board of
Appeals just recently a resolution was read into the record and adopted by vote of the Zoning
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
Board Members accepting the SEQR findings statement for the proposed Enclaves Hotel and
Restaurant Special Exception Permit use application. A copy of the Statement of Findings was
filed at the Southold Town Hall, made available to the public, posted on the town’s official
website and distributed to the applicant and all involved agencies. Basically the language in that
resolution is pretty close to what it is I’ve just read to all of you right now just so you’re aware
of what that had to say. At this point I’d like the Town Attorney to review the Special Exception
Permit standards, nobody goes home learning code unless you have to. It’s complicated, it’s not
something you take to bed at night so we thought it would be useful for the public to be aware
of exactly what the applicant has to address and what we have to consider. So Bill I’m going to
turn it over to you.
T. A. DUFFY : For those of us who have not been doing zoning for the last twenty years
(inaudible) a good portion of our lives reading code I think the term special exception use or
special permit use a special permit could be somewhat deceiving the term could be somewhat
misleading and a special exception use is simply a use that is authorized if certain conditions are
met. Courts have found that the inclusion of a special exception use in a zoning district is
tantamount to a legislative finding that the permitted uses are in harmony with the zoning
district. With regard to criteria to be met in this case for the proposed used Section 280-35 of
the code there’s four criteria for this particular including minimum lot size, limitation on
number of guest rooms based on whether public water and sewer are available, maximum
rooms size and the requirement that audible music or loud speaker systems not be (inaudible)
on the property line. In addition for all special exception uses in our code 280-142 provides
seven general standards that must be addressed and 143 contains sixteen matters that the
Board must consider in determining whether to grant the special permit. I think we’re going to
be here long enough tonight so I’m not going to read these out. Finally if the Board does decide
that granting the application is appropriate it does have the ability under the code to impose
certain conditions to make sure that criteria and standards are met. The bottom line the Board
has to follow the code, this is not a popularity contest it’s not just most of the people in the
room favor a project it gets approved, most of the people in the room disfavor it gets approved,
they’re bound by the code and that’s what’s going to guide them in making this decision.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thanks Bill. Let me just point out to you that every single email our
office has received and every written correspondence we have received since 2017 has been
sent to every Zoning Board Member, has been sent to the applicant and has been filed in our
original file in the office and scanned into Laser Fiche for public review. That information is in
the record and available to anyone and if you have trouble accessing Laser Fiche and are very
interested in it call our office. We have a form we can send you to tell you exactly how to do it
or they can provide a link we are here to be helpful. Let me mention a couple of ground rules
about how we’re going to proceed because it’s a large audience and we know there are many in
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
attendance here and I want to welcome everyone who wants to speak but I want to first
explain that I’m going to ask the applicant to go first here to present their project as it is
currently proposed explaining why they think they meet the standards for Special Exception.
After the applicant has made that presentation I’m going to open the meeting for public
comments. Now this is a delicate choreography, there are people out in the overflow space
who may want to speak, there are people in this room, there on people on Zoom. So I’m going
to try and you know go back and forth a little bit. If you are here present I’m going to ask you if
you are in the audience and you want to be heard then just raise your hand and when you’re
called upon go to both podiums are fine either one there’s a form on there that just asks you to
print your name and your address because this hearing is being recorded and will be
transcribed for the record and available to review and so it’s important that we get your name
and your address correctly so I would ask you to say what you want to say and then when the
next speaker comes up to the other podium then fill that out for us so that we don’t misspell
your name. So when comments from the public are taking place the applicant can request to
address those directly at that moment or I think in the interest of efficiency and time I might
ask if you would just hold comments for a few comments from the public and then address
them but I’m going to let you take the lead on that. Although the Board Members are certainly
able to ask relevant questions this is your time, this is the time the applicant has to explain
what they’re proposing now and it is the time the public has to tell us what’s on your mind. So
we are mostly going to be here to listen this evening. I’d like to ask you all to please cooperate
by limiting your comments to about five minutes each. You can see by the numbers there are
probably plenty of people who want to get to that podium and that would be very, very helpful.
Please try and refrain from making the same comments as other speakers have made. I know
many of you may feel the same way but it would be more helpful so we’re not here till midnight
ordering pizza is if you would just come if you wish to be heard please come to the podium
when you’re called upon and just simply say I agree with the last speaker or I disagree with the
last speaker and if you wish to acknowledge further that’s fine but please try and avoid just
repeating the exact same thing. Now written comments if any of you brought letters they can
be read into the record this evening if you want to or it can be submitted just turned in or both.
For those of you in the meeting hall as I said raise your hand and for those of you in the
overflow space I just would ask, if you want to speak cause we can’t block the corridor it’s
against fire marshal rules, organize yourselves in a line out there however you wish of who
wants to speak and I’ll ask if anybody wants to come in from out there and we’ll do it that way.
I’m going to ask for those of you who are on Zoom our Office Assistant who is in our office at
the moment Elizabeth Sakarellos is going to explain how anyone who is on Zoom can use the
link if you request to be heard by the Board. Liz would you do that now please.
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : Thank you Leslie, like Leslie said for those on Zoom if you wish
to make a comment please click the raise hand button and we will allow you to unmute and
we’ll give you further instructions on how to do that. For those at the town hall with the Board
if you plan on making comments please speak loudly and clearly like Leslie said into the
microphone. As mentioned this will be transcribed and needs to be as clear as possible and also
if you plan on speaking more than once please restate your name, it’s hard to tell who is
speaking. I appreciate it and thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Now this is important, all comments from the public must be
addressed to the Board not the applicant. So if you have a question about something address
the Board and then if it’s appropriate I’ll ask the applicant to answer or they can request they
can say I’d like to answer that, that’s fine too but you have to talk to the Board not to each
other and not to the applicant. Something else that’s important, you know it’s very important
that we proceed with civility and with a certain degree of open mindedness among everyone. I
would ask you all to please refrain from the temptation to laugh or to boo or to applaud, that
really takes up time and it kind of doesn’t get us anywhere. We will treat everyone in this room
and on Zoom with civility and courtesy and respect and we would ask all of you to behave in the
same manner that’s very important. Just so you know about the time frame, no decision is
going to be made this evening. At the conclusion of tonight the hearing is going to be kept open
for three weeks to receive any additional written comments either from the applicant wishing
to summarize anything or from anyone in the public who wants to make further comments. The
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hearing will be closed on November 4 at the Zoning Board’s Regular Meeting. It will appear on
the agenda. Once that’s closed the Board has sixty two days in which time to render a decision
but we anticipate we’re going to do that much sooner than that, that’s the maximum time.
When we have a draft ready to discuss in an open meeting before the public that will be on our
agenda which will be as always available on our website for anyone to look at. So we will have
that date forthcoming as soon as we know what it is. One final thing, at the direction of the
Town Board and the Supervisor for the purpose of protecting every public employee in either in
both town buildings and also the public entering, they have determined that masking is
required in these buildings at all times both covering your nose and the mouth and I know it’s
miserable it’s really uncomfortable for us to every one of us hates them but it’s protocol, the
Town Board has mandated it and we all intend to abide by it. If you’re unwilling to do that or if
you’re really unable to do that that’s fine we would just simply ask you to participate via Zoom
and not here in the meeting hall. So I want to thank you all for your patience and your
cooperation and now I’m going to open up this hearing to the applicant. Thank you for your
patience and now who is going first, Mr. Altman.
DAVID ALTMAN : I am madam Chair thank you so much I sympathize with everybody tonight. I
think we’re all going to look forward to the conclusion of this hearing getting in the car and
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
putting the windows down so we can get fresh air on the way home. I want to first of all give
my appearance for the record I’m David Altman from the office of Brown, Altman & DiLeo 538
Broadhollow Rd. Suite 301W Melville, New York for the applicant. I first before I make any of
my comments thank the Chair and the Town Attorney Duffy for taking the time this evening to
explain the SEQR process and to briefly touch upon what it means to be a specially permitted
use in the hamlet business district. Madam Chair you sort of stole a little bit of my thunder in
terms of recounting and going through the chronology of the SEQR proceedings here. We all
recognize the length it was a rather three and half year process with public involvement and
public comment both in extensive DEIS and subsequently a rather extensive FEIS all spurred on
and responding to public comments and comments from this Board as well as involved agency.
I believe there were over three hundred comments which actually were addressed as part of
the EIS process by the applicant ultimately considered by this Board and it’s consultants and
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accepted on the 19 of August in the final FEIS and then of course just last week on October
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17 with the issuance of this Board’s positive Findings Statement. The Findings Statement itself
is worthy to note on the onset because personally having done zoning for the better part of
some thirty years in speaking to our project, planner and environmental consultant Kim
Gennaro from PWG she’s going to be speaking after me this evening. Typically our experience
with Findings Statements are roughly ten pages or less this was a fifty three page Finding
Statement with extensive factual and written findings. I believe there were roughly sixteen to
seventeen actual written findings in there mirroring the requirements under SEQR and to a
large degree many of the special permit criteria which this Board is being asked to consider this
evening and ultimately to decide upon in a few weeks when they close the record and
thereafter renders it’s decision. I’ll also note and this has been part of the record for some time
as part of the FEIS the applicant did an extensive review of the special permit criteria that you
have alluded to this evening as well as Mr. Duffy both the general criteria the specific hotel
criteria and the special permit criteria for the use itself. That was duly noted in this Board’s
Finding Statement and acknowledged by the Board and accepted by the Board as part of the
record concerning the special use permit itself and it’s also part of the record before this Board
here tonight. With regard to the project itself and you’ve given some of the pedigree
information I’m just going to mention a few things about the actual development itself and it’s
worthy of not. First of all this is the Board of Appeals, the Board of Appeals aside from hearing
special permits on occasion such as this is generally textbook variance applications. In other
words applications that don’t comply with provisions of the code. That is not what we’re here
for tonight, this is a variance free application. The applicant does not seek any relief from the
bulk requirements or other conditions of the zoning code. It is simply to hear and decide the
special use permit as requested for the hotel and restaurant use. That’s rather important
because it shows careful consideration by the applicant I believe in terms of the thoughtfulness
and development of this project particularly in conjunction with comments from this Board and
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
comments from the public. Now as you mentioned the property is roughly 6.75 acres in area or
294,202 sq. ft. The underlining zoning district requires 20,000 sq. ft. the hotel special permit
criteria requires 5 acres, we exceed that by 1.75 acres so it’s a fairly substantially sized parcel.
We have lot width of approximately 190.66 feet on Main Rd. or Route 25 where 60 feet is
required, it’s roughly 69% greater than the code requirement. The lot depth is 928.03 feet
where 100 feet is required roughly 89% or even 90% greater. The rear yard setback for the
proposed development is 153.83 feet, 25 feet is required. So the setback is almost 84% greater
than what’s required. Minimum landscaping rather important, there’s been a great deal of
comment as it relates to landscaping and buffering and those are certain elements that the
applicant has carefully and thoughtfully added to it and incorporated into the project and Kim
Gennaro will touch upon that in a few minutes but the landscaping on the site is going to be
roughly 58.62% both remaining natural and permissible landscaping subject to site plan
approval. It’s roughly 200% greater than the minimum 25% requirement. That’s a fairly well
thought out and carefully considered plan. Maximum lot coverage or lot density, the code
allows for 40% where 18.6% so less than half of what would otherwise be permissible for say as
of right use you can have something substantially larger than what has been proposed today.
The actual square footage of the proposed hotel and restaurant use for the converted existing
building on Main Rd. the former Hedges B&B is about 47,955 sq. ft. on a site that’s 294,000 sq.
ft. I think that’s a fairly thoughtful planning criteria. If it were 40% we would be allowed roughly
117,000 sq. ft. so a larger difference obviously subject to other conditions but again major
difference we’re not even close to that. Permitted height in the district is 35 feet, the maximum
height that the applicant is proposing is 32.93 feet so less than the permissible height
requirement in the district. In fact one of the findings this Board made in its Finding Statement
is that the proposed building in terms of its consistency with character of the area relative to
size of the buildings is in fact consistent of buildings along Main Rd. in the area are one and two
story structures that’s what the applicant is proposing a two story structure. Just a little bit of
what in fact is proposed and again Kim Gennaro will touch on it a little bit more in terms of the
changes from the plan through the scoping and EIS process but right now the existing
residential building the former Hedges B&B that fronts on Main Rd. will be converted into its
planned to be converted into a 74 seat sit down restaurant. The building is going to be
rehabilitated, it is in need of some tlc and that plan has been considered by various agencies
including the State Office of Historic Preservation and found to be sufficient. There will be 38
parking spaces associated with the restaurant, 27 of which will be paved and including two ADA
spaces. The hotel building itself will be a 40 unit hotel building with approximately 122 parking
spaces, 96 of which are paved including four ADA and 26 grass spaces. The total required on-
site parking per code is actually 94 spaces. So including the grass spaces that are provided for
the restaurant and for the hotel there is in fact excess parking of 66 spaces and we’ll get into
that in a little bit but that helps to address some of the event issues that have been addressed
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
by the applicant and I’ll get into that just shortly. There will also be four cottages approximately
540 sq. ft. each at the northern end of the property for customers wishing to have the private
cottage those cottages will be screened by dense evergreens as well as stockade fence with
sound attenuation barrier. One of the things the applicant is proposing at some substantial
expense is the development on site of an SEP or sewage treatment plant. Again that was part of
the EIS process considered by this Board and found to be acceptable. It’s been considered and
reviewed by Suffolk County Department of Health, the Town Engineer and a few other
departments and found to be consistent with and compliant with design standards for the STP.
The cost for that facility is probably going to be somewhere between two and half to three
million dollars and at the end of the day because there’s a new system and meets current
standards it will provide better sewage treatment and disposition than many, many, many of
the older existing on-site septic systems at neighboring uses that exist today so that’s
something to bear in mind. The parking will be located at the northeast north and western
portions of the site with restaurant parking to the north and west of the restaurant itself and if
you look at the site plan I don’t know if we have that around us there you go so for those who
can see the video screen to my left or maybe move this more center it’s a little better view.
North would actually be if you’re looking at the video screen on the left side where you see the
dash line that’s there to the railroad tracks. So the SEP would be in that northeast corner
adjacent to the tracks. With regard to parking you’ll note that parking once it comes on-site
then the curb cut for parking is one way which would be on the east side of the property, all on-
site traffic is circulated to the west side away from the residential uses along the eastern
boundary. The parking again along the western lot line and along the north lot line towards the
rear of the property vehicles exiting the site go through a single curb cut exit only either making
left or rights onto Main Rd. The last thing you’ll probably note relates to the development, it is
if you look on the video screen for the folks who can hear they really can’t see it easily in front
of me but if you look on the video screen you’ll see where the hotel structure is which is the
shape L just to the right of that you’ll see a half shell structure and that’s the proposed future
events space with approximately 6,640 sq. ft. The purpose for the event space so that
everybody understands was many of the comments that were received during the scoping and
during the EIS process related to noise and outdoor events. The applicants propose in
conjunction with extensive comment that were reviewed from this Board and this Board’s
consultants the proposed indoor event space there will be no outdoor events. There will be no
outdoor amplified music. These are going to be conditions of the approvals such that the
applicant should it decide that it makes sense has the ability to build the indoor event space
and that indoor event space will be built in such a manner and with such materials as to
essentially attenuate any of the noise concerns that were expressed during the scoping process.
This Board and it’s consultants recognized that and acknowledged that fact positively in its
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SEQR findings of October 7. A couple of other things that I will note as it relates to some
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
changes from the initial proposal and Kim can talk about it in a little more detail along with Ron
Hill from Dunn Engineering our traffic engineer to the extent we have events on this site. Events
have been considered weddings, anniversaries, conferences etc. the issue what do we do to
mitigate potential traffic cause traffic concerns were expressed by the public and the Board and
its consultant. The threshold determination by the Board and the Board’s consultant was
events of 100 or more with a maximum of 250 and we understand that. So what the applicant
proposed to do at the Board’s request was to limit those events to no more than ten per year,
no more than once per week and they have to be on prior notice to the town. In addition, to
the extent the applicant holds an event of 100 or more guests the applicant has to provide for
traffic control in consultation with the town. This has been carefully thought out by both the
applicant, the Board, the Board’s consultants in terms of having mitigated those potential
impacts. Now you heard the Town Attorney Mr. Duffy talk about the specially permitted use
and it’s worth mentioning again so folks understand, a specially permitted use is often
misunderstood as to exactly what it is but the reality is and the law in this state is pretty clear as
Mr. Duffy indicated a specially permitted use is a permitted use in the district provided this
complies with the conditions for the use. Now that is also tantamount for finding by the local
legislature in this case the Town Board that the use is in harmony with the character of the area
and it’s appropriately placed in this instance the hamlet business district so it’s not again it’s not
as if the applicant is coming seeking a Use variance that is not the case. The use itself is
permitted provided the conditions are met. We have as I already mentioned made a fairly
thorough analysis as part of the EIS process, that analysis is contained in the record before this
Board and you folks have also had the opportunity to review and more over that has been duly
acknowledged and accepted part of the Findings Statement issued by the Board. The other
thing to note as it relates to the SEQR Findings Statement itself and this is important is that this
is the end result of a three and a half year process. All the fact gathering, all the information
findings all the expert (inaudible) reports done in conjunction with the Board and the Board’s
consultants I believe there were probably five iterations if I’m not mistaken of the FEIS
submitted by the applicant before this Board ultimately accepted it and we have the Board’s
findings. The Board has deemed the project with the mitigation measures as proposed and as
requested by this Board to be sufficient as it relates to this particular project. So bearing that in
mind and I’ll reserve the extent of any further comment I have following our expert
presentation right now and of course resident comments I’m going to ask Kim Gennaro to step
up from PWG and to provide her testimony.
KIM GENNARO : I am Kim Gennaro from PW Grosser Consulting. I have been working with this
application since 2016 since its initial filing and then 2017 off to the Board. PWGC is the
environmental and the project engineer. We prepare the EIS along with the project team
consisting of experts in traffic, acoustics, ecology and architectural design and we coordinated
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
during this multi-year process with your consultants; your traffic consultants, your noise
consultants and your planning environmental consultants. Tonight is the continuation of the
hearing that was opened no November 7, 2019, I attended that hearing we heard the public,
we addressed the public. The EIS was over three hundred comments 319 public comments
specifically. Many of the comments well it covered almost every aspect of the project, site
design, the impacts to ground water, the impacts to community character, the STP, traffic,
sound levels, ecology and the hotel use and the proposed accessory use for event space. A
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Positive Findings Statement was issued on October 7 by this Board but it followed a year
process of plan changes and project scope changes in coordination with your consultants. I
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think it’s beneficial to go through what change in this project between November 19 and
where we stand today and many of these changes are now conditions of approval because they
are in the Findings Statement. One of the changes made to the plan and this was mitigation to a
residential property owner to the east, the ingress driveway was shifted 11 feet to the west
closer to the restaurant and a 15 foot vegetated buffer was added to the driveway between the
driveway and the property line. Along the east side and northeast corner of the property
additional plantings were incorporated into the design. This was for direct visual screening for
the residential owners to the east. We also have a double row of mature plantings going in
during construction so it’s immediate visual screening. We have a 6 ½ foot wooden stockade
fence now with an acoustic barrier that’s been added to the eastern and the western property
lines and around the four cottage exterior areas. This was done for visual and noise mitigation
purposes. The proposed pond was modified to eliminate fish there was a comment of concern
of fish being in the pond, we eliminated the fish it is now a (inaudible) pond with aeration and
plantings. Again this was a direct comment and we modified the plan. The dumpster pad was
relocated from the northeast to the northwest corner for easier access for the carted company
but also to relocate away from the residential properties to the east. A parapet was added to
the proposed hotel for rooftop HVAC system which will also be contained within noise
attenuating enclosures as well as a thirty inch glass barrier added now to the plan to the top of
the parapet adjacent to the rooftop lounge space. These changes were directly for visual and
noise mitigation. The rooftop lounge is now limited to the hours are limited to Thursday from
10 am to 9 pm, Friday 11 am to 10 pm and open only to hotel guests. The proposed spa is only
for hotel guests. There was a public comment during the FEIS and I thought I would just address
it now, the inclusion of the spa does not affect the projected water usage or the STP design. Spa
services are included in the (inaudible) factors established by the County Health Department.
Regarding the events, the outdoor events have been eliminated. The potential enclosed event
room for a maximum attendance of 250 patrons was added and this was added in coordination
with the Board’s consultant but it is still subject to Planning Board’s site plan approval and we
recognize that. To accommodate indoor events the former prep kitchen in the hotel had to be
increased in size and become a full kitchen for the indoor events. Large events which are
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defined by this Board now as events between 100 to a maximum of 250 will be limited to no
more than ten per year and no more than one in a week and as Mr. Altman had indicated with
advance notice to the town and traffic control will be hired for all events that exceed 100
patrons. The proposed plan was also designed with overflow parking to accommodate events
and to avoid any spill over and valet parking will be provided for all events. The STP was
modified for the 250 maximum person event which will occur no more than ten times per year
and a change imposed by this Board is that there will be no outdoor amplified music. Finally the
noise generation from cumulative sources and this came from extensive analyses which Sean
Harkin from Sound Sense will go into a little bit later this evening. The noise generation from
cumulative sources this included indoor events, traffic, pool, cottages, the HVAC, the rooftop
terrace and the parking lot combined will not exceed five decibels over background sound
levels. That level to the D.E.C. is unnoticed to tolerable and this will be achieved with building
materials and windows and Sean can explain this to you in his testimony. Again this will all be
designed during site plan approval with the Planning Board. So these design changes and
mitigation measures were recognized in the Positive Findings Statement that was adopted by
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this Board on October 7. The project architect is going to follow you but I would like to
address something, the appropriateness of the use and I’ve read the public comments that this
project is too large and it’s out of character with the hamlet. It’s important to restate that this
development is on a 6.75 acre parcel of land in the hamlet business zoning district. The intent
of this zoning district and I’m going to quote from the zoning code is “to provide for business
development in the hamlet central business areas including retail, office and service uses and
hotel and motel uses that will support and enhance the retail development and provide a focus
for the hamlet area”. The proposed plan complied with this intent of the hamlet business
zoning district and it also complies with the bulk and dimensional requirements in the zoning
code and it also complies with many of the goals and objectives in the recently adopted Comp.
Plan. The property is significant larger than the minimum lot size, it provides for greater front,
side and rear setbacks. It provides greater landscape, it includes mature plantings at a
significant expense for immediate visual screening and the development overall is substantially
lower than the permitted lot coverage. The proposed hotel is below the maximum height
requirement, will be largely screened and it is not visible and we’ve demonstrated that in
renderings and Mr. Giambertone is going to show those to you following my testimony. The
proposed hotel also has less units than that permitted, 49 rooms are permitted we’re proposing
44. We have received the service availability letter from the Suffolk County Water Authority.
We have a sewage treatment plan that complies with the Health Department standards which
has full jurisdiction over that sanitary system. The analysis presented in the document show
that this project will result in less nitrogen loading, less impact to groundwater than an as of
right use that would use IA systems. The development also complies with the Storm Water
Management regulations of the town and includes both structural and non-structural methods
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of control. Finally I have to say regarding events, the intent of the project is to develop a hotel
that has the ability to host an event. It’s a customary accessory use for a hotel. It is not the
intent and I feel the need to say this, it’s not the intent of this applicant to develop a catering
hall or to have events as its primary use. This is an accessory use and it’s an amenity that they
would like to provide potentially provide in that future indoor event room. We have a project
now that’s been fully evaluated in a DEIS and FEIS and from this process has resulted in a
planning scope that considers all of the criteria for the issuance for this special exception use
permit. Through the SEQR record I respectfully submit to you that the standards and matters
for your consideration and they were included in the Final FEIS have been thoroughly
addressed. This use will not prevent an I’m going to quote unquote from the general standards,
“ will not prevent the orderly and reasonable use of adjacent properties or to other permitted
uses in the HB district or to the adjacent (inaudible)”. This is a use that will not impose or cause
adverse effects that will impair the health safety or welfare of the community. It complies with
the intent and the requirements of the HB zoning district as I have just explained as well as the
hotel requirements in the resort residential district. With its proposed design setbacks,
landscaping, density and the limitations imposed by this Board during the SEQR process this use
is consistent with its surroundings and is consistent with the town’s Comprehensive Plan as it
relates to this hamlet center. This development has also been designed for safe and adequate
accessibility for the fire and police departments and finally this development does comply with
the Storm Water Management regulations in Chapter 236 and all of this was confirmed in the
recently adopted Findings Statement. So I too in closing would like to thank the Board and I
would like to thank your consultants, this has been a very long process and we do look forward
to moving onto the Planning Board and we welcome any questions that you have for us but for
now I’m going to hand it over to Mr. Giambertone who is our project architect.
ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : Chairperson Weisman and ladies and gentlemen of the Board and
members of the public, my name is Andrew Giambertone my office is at 62 Elm St. Huntington,
New York. I’m not only the architect of this project but I am also a partner in it. This property
was originally known as the Hedges Bed and Breakfast and was run by the absolutely delightful
Rita Cohen. When my partner and I met with Rita back in 2015 which is when the property was
purchased we shared with her the plans we had for the development of this site as a boutique
hotel and she was delighted. She was even happier when we explained that we would be
retaining the existing home that she had resided in for so many years as a pivotal part of the
project and in fact our constant was to conceal the hotel project a portion development behind
the significant hedgerow such that we can carry on the prominence of a hedgerow as a
significant feature of the design of the project. We then met with the Town Supervisor, the
Town Attorney and Members of the Planning Board to determine if our project was consistent
with the Comprehensive Master Plan as well as the continued development of new business
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district. Based upon the positive outcome of that meeting we went forward with the detailed
development of the plans for this project, the result of that effort is here before you tonight
seeking a Special Exception Permit and just to reiterate what has already been said this project
complies to all applicable zoning codes. We’re not seeking relief in any way shape or form. As
you see on the site plan we have a 6.75 acre site in the hamlet business district. We are
bordered to the north where the Long Island Railroad is, we are boarded to the west by
Albertson’s Marine boat yard, to the south by the businesses along Main Rd. and to the east by
three residences one of which is on the Main Rd. and has the majority of the property situated
also in the hamlet business district. Our concept was simple, we would restore the existing
Hedges Bed and Breakfast on the Main Rd. and convert it to a restaurant use consistent with
neighboring North Fork Table to the east and the then existing Cace to the west. We would
then install significant hedgerow behind the restaurant which would effectively screen the
development of the hotel from passersby on Main Rd. substantially rendering it not visible from
the road as the photos I’m going to ask Donna to put up on the screen will demonstrate. So we
walked up and down Main Rd. and took photographs of the existing building and put them into
a rendering form the closer photo here you can see the reality is that from walking down the
street Donna can you show view five? So as you walk down Main Rd.
OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : Excuse me for one minute. For the people on Zoom we cannot
see that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You know this is actually a terrific tool because what it means is that
people attending remotely and those of you here can look at that as opposed to these boards
which nobody has ever been able to see. So it’s a little finicky but our staff does a really good
job with it so I thank them for their efforts here.
ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : So view five that’s up on the screen demonstrates really what you’re
going to see and the photographs here although I recognize that everybody can’t see them
have the hedgerow superimposed upon it and the reality is that as you walk by the street the
only portion of the building and this was recognized in the Findings Statement that you might
get a glimpse of is the two and half story stone barn which I will get into in a moment. As you
look at the other views Donna if you can just scroll through those you’ll see that if you walk up
and down the Main Rd. from either the east or the west the project is going to be virtually
invisible which was what our design intent was from the beginning. Regarding the setbacks, the
building is setback over 404 feet from Main Rd. 219 feet from the Long Island Railroad property
with the cottages setback some 153 from same. The front entry portico on the west side of the
building is located 40 feet from Albertson’s property and the two closest residences on the back
portion of the property to the east are 111 feet 120 feet away from the main building as well.
Lastly, our main building is setback some 345 feet from the house that resides in the hamlet
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business district to the southeast of the property. In addition to the hedgerow between the
hedgerow and the actual hotel building we have the meadow of some 43,430 sq. ft. which is
virtually an acre that is intended to provide additional buffering between the hotel building and
the restaurant and Main Rd. So that green area you see behind the hedgerow and in front of
our building is in fact the meadow. The concept is that we would do rotating local sculptures
and artwork from time to time and that the meadow would provide an affective backdrop to
the hotel. The design of the building is anchored by two and a half story stone barn.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do we have one of those Donna?
OFFICE ASSISTANT WESTERMANN : No.
ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : Part of the original submission, Donna you want to pull up what’s
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is that it?
ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : That’s it. The design of the building is anchored by a two and half
story stone barn with plain (inaudible) tile on the roof. It is the only portion of the hotel building
that you’ll actually see from the road all of which spreads two wings from one for the hotel
lobby and lounge to the west and then the actual rooms to the north. If you look at the
renderings here what you see is if I was standing in the meadow looking towards the hotel
building I would see the two and half story stone barn, to the left of it is the hotel lobby with an
open deck on the pond and the entry vestibule and then the view you see on the bottom
portion of the screen is if I’m standing at the pool within the hotel looking towards the rooms.
In terms of the building itself, the building was carefully designed to screen our neighbors from
the potential impact of the activity within the hotel itself. It’s L-shape accommodates the
building actually becomes an effective buffer to the properties on the east and all the activity is
concentrated to the absolute center of the property. We have the building to the south which
would help screen the activity from what’s going on the front along Main Rd. In looking at the
determination statement and the findings provided by the town, the town actually parallels
many of the design concepts and confirms that the design concepts put forth have in fact been
realized. In terms of aesthetic resources and community character page twenty nine states, to
assess the potential impacts of the proposed development I was required to prepare renderings
of the proposed hotel as well as photo simulations from various vantage points including along
the street aligned by Main Rd. and along the easterly property line from the subject adjacent
neighbors. Donna if you could pull up the images please of the photographs from the neighbors
properties along the east.
SOMEONE FROM THE AUDIENCE : Excuse me, can they not repeat over and over again.
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CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have to be patient your turn is coming up, they have the right to
review before this Board they’re not just doing this for your benefit. They have a right to create
a record we have each one of them has a specialty and have a right and I’m going to allow them
to proceed with their presentation. Then you will have an opportunity to comment and
question. Please go ahead quiet please.
ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : We’ve provided the Board with photographs from the adjacent
neighboring properties demonstrating what the screened planting will do in terms of its
effective screening of the hotel from those properties. Those have been submitted to the
record and are recognized in the Findings Statement. The Findings Statement goes on to say
that the reuse of the existing residential structure will preserve and reinforce the existing
character of the hamlet of Southold while the proposed height of the new hotel building is
consistent with the existing development of the hamlet center and complies with the property
zoning and residential zoning requirements for this use. The existing residence on Main Rd.
which was formerly the Hedges Bed and Breakfast is proposed to be restored and used as a
restaurant and the office of Historic Preservation has recognized that and granted it’s approval
for use of same. The Board goes on to say that the only portion of the building that would be
visible from Main Rd. is the period style stone barn which anchors the building which we spoke
about. The existing residential structure will be restored and renovated such that the
architectural style and build character it reflects will be part of the hamlet atmosphere of
Southold. In terms of landscaping we’ve discussed that I won’t duplicate it but there’s
substantial planting, we’ll be planting 14 to 16 foot trees along the easterly property line in a
double row those will be planted at the commencement of the construction process as the
construction is expected to take some (inaudible) months and these plants grow at a rate of
two to three feet a year. They’ll provide significant screened planting from the residence on the
east to the project when completed. In addition to that there are eight to ten foot plantings
that will be planted along the westerly property line. All the mature trees of any substance have
been identified and intended to be retained and protected during construction and then those
landscape those trees will be augmented with additional planting and as Mr. Altman indicated
will substantially increase the quality of the landscaping on the property. The proposed
landscape plantings do not include any species listed as invasive of Long Island Invasive Species
Management (inaudible). This portion of
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Please refrain from commenting during some of the presentation. I
will make sure that no one interrupts you when it’s your turn.
ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : That was determined by the Suffolk County’s Species Management
Agency. This portion of the Findings Statement concludes, including advisory input from the
Town Architectural Review Board the proposed project will be consistent with and meets the
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goals of regulatory development and planning frameworks such as zoning, local and regional
comprehensive plans and documents such that community character under the proposed
project will be preserved and enhanced. In findings statement number eight the town offers the
project retains the existing residential structure and adaptively reuses it thereby saving the
building. Cultural resources experts at the State Office of Historic Preservation have reviewed
the proposed plan and provided guidance and input and indicated that based under intention
of the structure with minor modifications that the structure is sensitive to the architectural and
historic character of the community and that no adverse historic resource impacts will occur
from the project. In conclusion we feel that this project has been respectfully designed,
carefully considered and exhaustively reviewed. We are well under the permitted density for
this lot and well over the minimum landscape requirements as well. We feel our project is
consistent with the standards and the goals of the town’s Comprehensive Plan and as such we
respectfully request approval for this Special Exception Permit.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you Mr. Giambertone. Mr. Altman what do you have planned
now in a way of additional testimony from your experts? Just trying to get a feel when it’s
appropriate to let people do a little bit of
DAVID ALTMAN : We have two more expert witnesses and then I have a short comment.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You know what, you might not want to hear it but this Board is
obligated to. We will make an attempt to contact DPW to see if we can bring them in and turn
the fans on. We can open up the door.
DAVID ALTMAN : Two more witnesses fairly short, Sean Harkin from Sound Sense regarding
noise mitigation measures and then Ron Hill regarding traffic.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well I know that noise and traffic were both issues of real concern to
our community and I think it’s appropriate for them to indicate what they went through to
attempt to mitigate those concerns. So just bear with us, I’ll ask you to try and be as succinct as
possible cause the natives are getting restless here. Actually you know what folks, there are a
couple of chairs in what was the jury box if someone is having a fit from standing so long you’re
welcome to come down here and sit right in there up to you.
SEAN HARKIN : Good evening Members of the Zoning Board my name is Sean Harkin I am senior
acoustic consultant at Sound Sense LLC with offices at 39 Industrial Rd. Unit 6 in Wainscott.
Sound Sense has completed an acoustic analysis including the FEIS which determines that
sound levels resulting from the operations of the Enclaves will not exceed five dba above the
existing sound levels and meets the criteria of no impact as established by the New York State
Department of Environmental Conservation. Furthermore, the sound levels predicted comply
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with both the Town of Southold’s daytime and nighttime noise ordinances. The acoustic
analysis provides an objective and quantifiable predictions for the noise levels from the
Enclaves. Considered noise sources include but are not limited to additional noise due to
predicted traffic levels, voices at the pool, voices at the rooftop lounge, parking lot noise, noise
from cottages and allowances for mechanical noise to be evaluated after mechanical design as
well as an allowance for possible future special events space which will be evaluated in the site
planning process for the possible future special event space. All predictions made are intended
to present a worst case scenario level for evaluation based on the operational parameters
established by the applicant. Mitigation measures which have been included put a sound
barrier to the east, elimination of outdoor amplified sound, elimination of outdoor special
events, a glass barrier at the parapet of the rooftop lounge and were all recommended and
implemented into the site plan as a result of the evaluation. The acoustic report has been
thoroughly reviewed, discussed and accepted by the town’s third party consultant and found to
have no impact from the New York State D.E.C. criteria. One thing I will add on the noise
analysis is that these projections also included established levels for outdoor amplified sound at
the time of the projections. Outdoor amplified sound has been removed as a component of the
project and as a condition of approval. So these predictions that were completed are likely even
an overestimate of the sound levels that we would predict at this time. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Who else did you want the traffic person.
RON HILL : Ron Hill principal of Dunn Engineering 66 Main St. Westhampton Beach New York.
We did a traffic study for the project, focused on four intersections along Main St. Main Rd. an
Boisseau Ave. and Hobart Rd., Main and Locust and Main Rd. in 7-Eleven driveway and finally
Main Rd. at Town Harbor Lane. Vehicle counts that we took for the study were taken in July late
July of 2018 and early August of 2018. Later at the request of the town’s consultant we did gap
studies along Main Rd. in front of the site, we did those in October of 2020. The amount of
traffic that we anticipate the Enclaves will generate we determined using the Institute of
Transportation Engineers Trip Generation Manual it’s a nationally accepted standard for such
things, it’s accepted by the New York State Department of Transportation, the Suffolk County
Department of Public Works and the consultant that the Town used to review our documents.
The anticipated trip generation for this site on a summer Saturday afternoon there’s twenty six
trips in and twenty trips out that’s a small amount of traffic compared to what’s already existing
on the road. Each of the study intercepts was analyzed (inaudible) with the traffic from the site
and without the traffic from the site. These analyses indicate that project traffic would have
negligible impact on those sections which we’ve studied. The Zoning Board’s independent
consultant reviewed the report and agreed with those conclusions. The operations of the
Enclaves Hotel and Restaurant will not (inaudible) impact traffic. The traffic impact study will
also evaluate the potential for traffic impact special events up to 250 persons ten times per
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year no more than once a week. That study continues (inaudible) occurring on a summer
Saturday afternoon during peak summer traffic. Our analysis included that some increases in
delay would occur in particularly increases in delay for traffic existing the site. The independent
consultant requested we do a gap study to verify that that was likely to happen, we did that
they reviewed it and they determined that if we had an event of over 100 individuals we would
need traffic control to help our traffic get in and out with events of less than 100 they said it
would be minimal traffic impact and didn’t need traffic control. It should be noted that the
Institute of Transportation Engineers criteria provides the vehicles trips of less than 100 per
hour are deemed not to have (inaudible) impact on the road system generally do not want
mitigation measures. It should also be recognized that the event traffic an analysis was
conducted during peak summer Saturday afternoon traffic studies and all sorts of event traffic
entering and existing the site during the same hour and worst case conditions. Events however
typically last two to five hours and as such entering traffic will not occur during the same hours.
In addition while some of the events will start during peak summer Saturday afternoons most
will end after the peak later at night and therefore the potential for traffic impacts is greatly
reduced. The proposed site plan provides more than enough parking to fully comply with town
code requirements. It was however recognized that during special events additional parking will
be needed however and additional parking was provided. In addition to make that parking
accommodate even more vehicles valet parking will be used to expand the ability to park
vehicles. Our study has concluded that the proposed Enclaves Hotel and Restaurant can be
accommodated without creating significant traffic impacts. The Zoning Board’s independent
counsel has thoroughly reviewed the study and its conclusions in fact the Enclaves Hotel project
will generate less traffic than an as of right use permitted in the hamlet business district and the
town’s consultant agree with that in the findings. It also notes in the October 7, 2021 SEQR
Findings Statement that the as of right uses have greater potential for traffic impact than the
Enclaves Hotel use and (inaudible) agreed mitigation measures the traffic control the applicant
is responsible to provide. Therefore the consultant and Zoning Board’s Findings Statement
found that the project will not create significant adverse traffic conditions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Hold on, please address the Board. If that concludes the specialists
that you have testifying.
DAVID ALTMAN : That does Madam Chair, I just have one thing to add before we reserve our
comments. Before the hearing commenced this evening I handed to the ZBA clerk Kim Fuentes
a real estate appraisal report prepared by Breslin Appraisals copies of which have been I hope
circulated to the Board.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have them.
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DAVID ALTMAN : That report is Mr. Breslin is unfortunately unable to be here tonight due to
scheduling conflict I will note in his (inaudible) that Mr. Breslin has testified before this Board
and other Boards in this town and many boards across Long Island for the better part of forty
years and he has been recognized as an expert in this town by this Board and by numerous
Boards throughout both Nassau and Suffolk County. I would just simply read the conclusion of
his report into the record if you don’t mind. Chair if you don’t mind.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Please continue.
DAVID ALTMAN : Thank you. The contemplated use is appropriately located and meets the
goals of the hamlet study and updated Comprehensive Plan providing potential for the increase
pedestrian activity to help support local businesses, provide increased tourist dollars, increase
jobs and substantial tax revenue all while maintaining the hamlet character along Main Rd. The
applicant’s development project will in no way prevent the use of adjoining properties or those
nearby zoning districts. Moreover the applicants intended hotel restaurant use will not
adversely impact property values will not adversely impact property values in that it is a
contemplated use and one expected to be located at this site. In conclusion for all the reasons
outlined above and contained in the FEIS and the ZBA’s Findings Statement I believe that this
application meets the criteria for the special exception standards of the town code and I would
ask that the Board accepts that report. With that we’ll reserve any comments following the
public comment or any questions from this Board but we are certainly here to entertain any
questions from this Board at the time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think rather than any questions from the Board since so many of
these have been addressed in the previous exchanges, I’d like to have the public have an
opportunity. They have been very patient sitting here waiting to be heard. This is what small
(inaudible) participatory democracy is for, everyone has the right to be heard and respected. So
if you would like let me do this let me just find out you can come forward come to this podium
here and then you come next. Liz how many do we have on Zoom?
OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : In attendance we have 88 and I have about eight to then
hands raised.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So we’ll hear from some people in the meeting hall first and please
again remember to address the Board not the applicant and then we’ll switch over to some
people on Zoom okay and then we’ll see whether or not you want to reply or reserve that for
later. Please state your name and give us your address for the record.
BARBARA PANTINO : My name is Barbara Pantino and I live on L’Hommedieu Lane in Southold. I
do have one item that I wanted to bring to attention, the traffic control study that was done I
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believe he said it was July of 2018. Since that time the traffic has become quite more heavy
with the influx of COVID people that moved into the area. So in light of that which I’m sure
everybody would agree that traffic has gotten heavier from that 2018 that maybe suggest that
they do another study on the traffic.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Please don’t do that please, if you want to agree you have the right
to come up and say I agree but please no outbursts are appropriate here and that means
agreeing or disagreeing either way. Valid point, I’ll see if the applicant wants to address that.
You want to do it now or later.
DAVID ALTMAN : I think maybe perhaps we work through the comments and respond later
otherwise we’re going to be here a lot longer.
BARBARA PANTINO : I’d like to also add to that traffic situation is the town or anyone regarding
this wonderful property that you’re looking to do thinking of putting up a four way light
somewhere around that area?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don’t have an answer for that but I can tell you that would be
something that Rt. 25 is a state road and that would have to be up to the state.
BARBARA PANTINO : So then we would have to request it or the town would have to request it?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Bill do you have an answer for that?
T. A. DUFFY : It would be up to the state if it would be appropriate.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So the state would make an inspection and make a decision.
BARBARA PANTINO : So the town would ask the state to inspect?
T. A. DUFFY : I think the applicant when he comes back up later can address the light issue.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Hold on we’ll do it in a little bit, important point. You have to
remember folks we live here too, we’re your neighbors we know exactly what we all feel about
our community but as counsel said earlier feelings have to be put aside either in favor or in
opposition facts are another story okay and we as a Board have to evaluate what the law
obligates us what to look at. Traffic impacts are certainly one of them and we do understand
that this project started quite a while ago it started before COVID and the data that we have is
done by experts and you all ought to know that our Board has had right from the beginning our
very own planning consultant who has taken us through this step by step, after all you can hear
the expertise required. So we’ve had our own consultant participating all along in this give and
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take. Is there anyone would you please just sign your name and address on that see there’s a
piece of paper on the podium.
BARBARA PANTINO : I wrote my name. One other thing regarding cars, transportation and
shuttles. It’s my understanding which I’m not quite sure I might be mistaken, they’re suggesting
that to the hotel occupants they would be supplying shuttle busses to the Founders Landing
Beach I’m not sure if that’s gossip or correct but as well as that’s a traffic issue in my opinion
actual residents of that locality which is me. There’s going to be a lot of in and out with busses,
there’s going to be loud partying and all kinds of stuff going on, the beach there’s children
there, there’s going to sightseers driving around what a cute little town and it’s going to hinder
the quiet respectful community that we are in Founders Landing and that’s the last comment.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I’ll ask them to address that when they’re ready. Thank you, let’s
hear from someone else.
JAMES GRENVELD : James Grenveld I live on Williamsburg Dr. in Southold. I was in the back so I
apologize I couldn’t hear the names and everything. As a resident and a taxpayer in the Town of
Southold I just have to voice my opinion and I do have a question for the Board as well. I’m not
sure how many of the consultants here tonight actually live in Southold and are experts in
terms of the project but I live in Southold so I’d like to consider myself an expert of the town
and the traffic situation and I can tell you that it’s gotten worse and worse year by year only
added by COVID. The second thing I would like to say is and I will use their words their
description of the building and the project, we want to keep it in the same harmony. I can tell
you there’s nothing harmonious about this project that’s going to come in and be the same in
the town of Southold. The town of Southold has been changing for years and it needs to stop.
People came here because they liked what it was and what it is okay. My family has owned
property on the Northfork for decades, Orient Point, Aquebogue, Cutchogue, Southold. When I
was five years old when I was going out to Orient Point where my family owned property with
my father to go crabbing and clamming was one the highlights and best memories of my life.
When we were on the North Rd. we past five cars that was a lot. Right now I said I’m on
Williamsburg I make a left off of South Harbor onto the Main Rd. it takes me over five minutes
to make that left hand turn because of all the traffic that’s back here. I will conclude I have a lot
more to say but my question to you is I understand because understanding I will assume that
these are all paid consultants up here that have been hired to do their studies on behalf of their
client okay, my question to you is the previous lady I also agree that another traffic study needs
to be done but is it in the town’s budget to hire independent persons coming to do that study.
One that is not being paid by the person trying to push this project through.
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CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I can answer that. We already have and we didn’t pay for it. The
town of Southold did not pay for it. The applicant through an escrow account was obligated to
pay for our own independent consultant. So their planning firm has a traffic engineer just like
they do and their traffic engineer looked at their report and analyzed it and that’s all part of our
record. So I want the public to be reassured that I totally get what you’re saying I think we all do
but the bottom line is we have had at their expense our own consultant and that’s why there
was so much mitigation in so many of their original decisions that they wanted to do and why
so many changes were made to the project.
JAMES GRENVELD : In conclusion as I said I appreciate that, in conclusion I would like to offer
my services as a professional traffic analyst and I can detail for you specifically okay why it is
that it starts from Michael Angelo’s and beyond to the church to get to Ace Hardware. I said
one of the things I do now living in Southold okay is I really don’t go past Mattituck anymore,
why cause I can’t deal with the traffic anymore. I said now it’s at a point I don’t go into Southold
on the weekends anymore. Thank you very much.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let’s take someone from that side of the room and then I’ll see if
there’s somebody on Zoom and we’ll come back to here. Please state your name and address.
ANGELINA MCKENA : My name is Angelina McKena, I live on 220 Mechanic St. right in the heart
of Southold. My husband and I are here today to express our concerns about the horrendous
project being proposed. It will negatively impact our charming and historical community for
various reasons but greatly for its environmental impact. It will not enhance the town of
Southold. This is a town which prides itself on its heritage and strong sense of community. Our
roads cannot handle more traffic which this proposal will create nor do we want more traffic in
addition to what we already have. The surrounding area will be greatly affected by noise
pollution and an invasion of transient people. We definitely do not need a forty room hotel, a
250 person indoor special events venue, a 100 person small events venue, pool, rooftop terrace
and a beach shuttle to Founders Landing for guests only as stated in the outline and the New
Suffolk News. Who will benefit from this horrendous outlandish proposal? The investors and
not the town and its citizens who live here. How dare they even suggest a bus shuttle to
Founders Beach which is a small bay beach used by our local young families mostly with small
children and seniors within the park district clearly shows what little regard they have for our
beautiful town and their residents in every aspect nor do they understand the dynamics which
makes our town so special. We cannot allow this proposal to rip the soul of our town’s heart
and destroy everything that we love. We vehemently oppose this special exception. John and I
moved to Southold almost four years ago and the reason why we chose this beautiful and
peaceful town is under attack. Please do not let this happen with deepest concern Angelina
McKena.
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
NANCY BUTKUS : My name is Nancy Butkus, I live on Town Harbor Lane and I have been
following this project cause I will be affected I live a few houses down. As I was looking through
my notes I noticed that in 2017 at the Zoning Board meeting Mr. Giambertone said “the aim is
to provide guests with a place of respite and privacy where they can enjoy what’s beautiful
about Southold which is the peace and quiet”. Since he made that statement in 2017 at that
point the hotel was 22 rooms now it’s 44, now there’s a hotel, now there’s an outdoor event,
there’s an indoor event I mean if he really does value the peace and quiet which we all do that’s
why we live here it’s a beautiful historical area and we need to guard it and protect it. Quite
frankly if this is built it’s going forever change our town and not to the betterment of its citizens
but as she just stated for the investors. I mean if you think all business is good business then
you have no then you’ll agree with them. I don’t particularly think all businesses is good
business. I think this town needs to protect what makes it special and it’s certainly not a luxury
resort for the wealthy which is what that is. We don’t have housing for the people who work
there I mean anyway I would just like to know if he still values the peace and quiet why are
they proceeding with this upscaling this project to a point where it’s going to change the town
forever. Thank you.
JIM UNDERWOOD : Hi my name is Jim Underwood I live in Laurel. The first speaker regarding
the traffic study, I thought I did hear that Mr. Hill say something about 2020 but even if the
traffic study was done in 2020 that is still pre-COVID migration but that’s not my main point.
Many of the civic associations I’m part of the Mattituck-Laurel I know Orient are participating in
the dark skies initiative. I don’t see how you can have a hotel without significantly changing the
lighting in the area and again I live in Laurel and I can see the glow to the west. This would be a
crack in the door that would allow you know major lighting and I would just hope that we
would consider that. Has anything been done in that regard?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes and I’m going to let the attorney address that when it’s time for
him to address some of these comments. Let’s just take a few from Zoom you go ahead and the
we’re going to go to Zoom.
CHRISTINA LARK : Good afternoon, Christian Lark from Greenport. When I came here today I
was not planning on saying anything and actually I learned quite a bit and I do want to thank
the Zoning Board and say that I don’t envy the position that you’re in. Although I don’t know
you it’s hard for me to believe that you would really like to see this large resort placed in this
small little village but you are bound by what the code is and I think that really if the resort
developer gave as truth today and really accurate and I assume that with an attorney you’ll find
out and you’ll let us know whether or not this is all accurate we’re actually thank you for not
making it bigger cause it sounds like it could have actually been bigger and I really I mean this
sincerely thank you I really don’t envy that you’re in this position and I think that I want to
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agree with some of the other speakers that it seems as if what they’re saying is accurate then
it’s only community character that maybe you can say no to because all the legalities that they
pointed out are accurate then maybe you don’t have that much of a choice and actually that
much to say about it because it what has to happen it seems is that the code has to be changed
to protect this town from several more of these getting built in other vulnerable spots. Thank
you very much.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Liz do you want to ask a few people let them in and testify and then
questions are starting to stack up.
SALLY KAHN : Thank you very much my name is Sally Kahn I live on North Bayview Rd. in
Southold and for some time I have been (inaudible). I’d like to return to some principles. In
town code you the Board of Appeals have the power to review selected types of proposed land
uses. They require individual review to assure compatibility with existing land use patterns,
community character and the national environments. Consistent with this there is a category of
special exception uses to quote, no special exceptions approvals shall be granted unless the
Zoning Board of Appeals specifically finds and determines the following. Some of these things
were skipped over by the Town Attorney and I’d like to bring them to your attention. That the
use will not prevent orderly and reasonable use of adjacent properties. That the safety, the
health, the welfare, the comfort, the convenience or the order of the town will not be adversely
affected by the proposed use and (inaudible). That the use will be in harmony with and
promote for general purposes and intent of this chapter. That the use will be compatible with
its surroundings and with the character of the neighborhood and of the community in general
particularly with regard to visibility, scale and overhaul appearance. It seems to me community
character must be foremost in your consideration. In a discussion of the Comprehensive Plan
our Supervisor Scot Russell in reply to questions of the plans relevance if adopted to this project
emphasized your roll here’s a quote from Supervisor Russell, “There is no hard and fast rule as
to whether something is to be consistent or inconsistent”. The Zoning Board of Appeals and
other Boards are going to determine what is the community standard met, what is the
community character. Is this plan that comes before us consistent with everybody’s
understanding of community character and the community standards. This community expects
your judgement Board to support the standards of the Southold hamlet study. Discussions let
by Leslie Weisman when I attended. That study insists that developments would be within a
small scale context that is in keeping with hamlet’s tradition and historic setting, small scale.
That study says that large scale also refers to intensity of use, evaluation of traffic generated
the nature of the intended markets targeting a larger market and not simply the hamlet itself.
Surely this project is targeting a larger market than Southold and is in direct contravention of
the hamlet study. Another goal in that study is to control tourism that it does not overwhelm
the quality of life of year round residents. The (inaudible) approve the special use permit you
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must make positive findings specifically determining that it is consistent with Southold’s
community character. The opposition this Enclaves proposal has generated precludes this
possibility as does common sense. Just say no.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : While you’re moving somebody else in I would like to let the public
know that what Sally Kahn just read from the 2005 Hamlet Stakeholders Study which I Chaired
and wrote is on page 20 of 53 pages of the FEIS and it is a part of this findings because it is
appropriate to this decision and it was not previously addressed. It was added by our consultant
and the Zoning Board’s request to this document so that we have some ability to address it. It
goes on and says more but that summary was good enough. Thank you for allowing me to just
enter that into the record because I thought it was appropriate.
MARINA DELUCA : My name is Marina Deluca I am a resident of East Marion. Good evening
Chairperson Weisman and Zoning Board Members I grew up in Southold town and I feel
privileged to live here. As an adult I’m currently an Environmental Associate with Group of the
East End and I’m speaking tonight as a resident as well as a member of this organization. The
Group for the East End is a professional conservation advocacy and education organization
founded in 1972. We’ve been involved in the review of this proposal since its inception and
have expressed significant concerns about the size and scale of this proposal. This proposal
remains significantly out of scale with the surrounding community. It does not reflect the clear
guidance that is in the town’s Comprehensive Plan. It fails to reflect of harmony with the
surrounding community, it invites additional traffic to an area already known as being a high
hazard and prone to accidents. It removes wildlife habitat and it sets a precedent for approval
for future out of scale developments within the hamlet. It simply does not meet the
requirements needed for a special exception use permit. How is a 44 unit hotel with a 74 seat
full service restaurant, a rooftop lounge and a 250 person event space at the entrance of
Southold compatible with the surroundings and the character of the neighborhood or in
harmony with the zoning code considering the guidance from the Comprehensive Plan? This
project will adversely affect the health, welfare, comfort and convenience residents and
organizations within the town. Despite the many aspects of this proposal the fundamental
question for the Zoning Board tonight is, if this project meets the requirements for a special
exception use permit and frankly it absolutely does not meet these standards. This project is
just too big. It’s going to increase issues that we already have and opens the door to drastic and
permanent changes to the surrounding community and will likely induce more out of scale
development in the future in this town. On a personal note many of my peers have left this
area due to a lack of professional career opportunities and the cost of living is extremely high.
The proposed project states that it will provide jobs and economic opportunity but I ask you
who are they providing this economic opportunity to? I actually worked in a hotel for six years
before having this job. We were short staffed and the staffing issues rose exponentially over
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the past two years. Most of the individuals in management positions would commute from
further up the island and the entire service industry in this town has been facing staffing
shortage all summer and there are not enough people to fill the jobs that are currently
available. So why would we create more jobs when we do not have the manpower to fill them
or would likely require people to commute from outside of Southold town further increasing
the traffic issue that will inevitably be prevented within this project? I want to add on the traffic
issue, how many of pieces of development have come before this Board and other Town
Board’s across the country stating that there will be no impact to traffic and suddenly we end
up someplace like the middle of Long Island? Eleven years ago the town realized that we were
facing immense pressure from development and took action by creating the Comprehensive
Plan? Just for the record, I was twelve. That concern is no longer a question of if we will
become overdeveloped our towns are being overdeveloped right now. It’s in no way rational to
believe that this development won’t create a drastic and permanent change to the surrounding
community and will likely induce more out of scale development and all the problems that
come with it in the future here of this town. The responsibility of this permit rests in the Zoning
Board of Appeals. If you choose to approve it the vast majority of this project will not change
later in time. You cannot choose to approve this project with the belief that another branch of
government will be able to make significant improvements to the project that we’re presented
with right now. This project in its current form should not be granted a special exception use
permit. Thank you very much for your time and consideration and review of our comments and
also one more thing, that does not look like the town.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I guess they’re in agreement but please refrain from doing that ask I
asked you before. Everyone should be treated with some respect and civility, every comment
should be valued and heard properly. The Board is absorbing everything.
SKIP ALBERTSON : Hi. I grew up in a house and the zoning changed to hamlet business was put
through around 1960 to accommodate my mother’s rental of a single room to tourists on the
weekend. So my question really has to do with the historical integrity of what part of the
original structure will remain? There was a shingle in the attic with a date of 1742 on it and I
can’t tell from the plan view presented by the architect whether the supporting beam will
remain after the renovation. Even though this house has withstood numerous hurricanes such
as the one in 1938 I can’t imagine it being strong enough to support a rooftop terrace. The
zoning plan before my mother’s modification suggested the smallest which I think is at risk here
if we’re not careful. I realize that that hamlet business zoning went through after the initial
zoning plan was drafted but I think we have to look at it through the lens of you know it’s not
like a 44 room versus a 22 room place. How much buffer is there between the true business
area and the rural area and I’ll take comments afterward. Thank you for listening.
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VINCENT GUASTAMACHIA : Good evening everyone I’m Vincent Guastamachia and I’m a farmer
and a resident in Cutchogue. I’d like to put everyone in a perspective of the farmer who
according to everyone’s points of view tonight we are the largest land preservers on the
Northfork on the east end of Long Island. We are the ones responsible for keeping vast swaths
of land uninhabited curbing the traffic but I invite the NBA’s in the room to help me with the
business plan to help us with the cost of labor, fuel, price per acre and the lack of support from
the commodities market. There’s one way for farms to stay sustainable, retail. So everyone out
here moved because of the farms everybody out here loves the farms. You have to help the
farmer. I’m here on behalf of several farmers that I have gotten to know and I’m only out here
my third year. I manage two thousand acres of farmland, it’s very difficult. In all the options
that this person can do with that property the one he chose helps us sell retail. There’s a study
the person that stays overnight is half as much on our roads and spends twice as much in our
businesses. Therefore if it were to and I’d like to ask, what other options do you have available
for this property? I believe someone said as you guys stated a very large office space. That
doesn’t help us, it doesn’t help the farmer. So I’d rather have persons that are half as much on
the roads and spends twice as much in the businesses and the person that comes out and is
twice as much on the roads and spends half as much time in our businesses. That being said as
a farmer, a resident of Cutchogue I believe they chose the best option for that space. Thank you
very much.
RITA DELUCA : My name is Katie Peters I live at 57128 Main Rd. in Southold so very close to this
location. I grew up in Orient, I grew up in the house my mother grew up in and that was the
house that her mother grew up in so I’m not new to the area. I’m also a business owner in
Southold I can walk from my house to my business in Feather Hill. If this project goes through I
can tell you my husband and I would consider selling our home and leaving, leaving our
businesses. This is not what we grew up to know and this isn’t why we bought our home here
six years ago. We love this town, we love owning our businesses in this town, I love helping the
residential people in this town. Like a few of the comments were that there would be the
outside business coming in, that’s great but it also brings headaches for local businesses a lot of
expectations at least from mine that we cannot meet. We don’t have a staff we don’t have like
Ms. Deluca mentioned every small business out here has a shortage of staff right now. COVID
related or not people can’t afford to live and work here so again like she said I’m not going to
repeat everything but more traffic more people commuting in to work it’s going to mean more
problems. It takes me at least three minutes to make a left out of my driveway on a good day
and that’s if no one is going to make the left out of North Fork Table and T-bone my car or me
and my dogs walking across the street which has come close many times. The last thing I want
to say is, has anyone considered the stress or overload that this is going to put on our Police
Department and our Fire Department? They’re already short staffed, they’re already
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overworked and every Fire Department I believe on the Northfork there’s a sign up for we need
members. So I just hope that we are considering those things when we take into this whole
project.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there someone on Zoom Liz?
JOE FINORA : Hello my name is Joe Finora. Thank you I’ll be brief. I’m a resident of the Hobart
Rd. community, I live here with my wife and one year old son. We’re very troubled about the
plans for this development up the street. This is a unique neighborhood one of the few with a
growing young families. We have major concerns and hadn’t even heard until tonight about the
prospect of bus shuttles down to Founders Beach. If we can sum this up the folks of our
neighborhood feel this is a typical exploitation of community resources for the benefit of very
few suits who explained this to us as black and white as not a problem for our community but
we’re very worried about the long term sustainability that this type of development would lead
to other parcels and we hope that you consider this as part of your decision for this special
exception.
JOHN CHANDLER : Hi my name is John Chandler. I live in town for about eight years now. We
moved here because of the character that it was. As people go on you’ll see that there’s some
redundancy here but I sort of put a little scale in this thing. There’s five hotels in Greenport,
there’s the Harborfront with 35 rooms, Greenporter with 30 rooms, The Manhaden with 16
rooms and American Beech with 13. This one unit will exceed the total combined total space
that all of Greenport which is something pretty frightening to think about and that doesn’t
count the cottages that you know maybe four rooms per it’s a big project just scale wise. The
only hotel that comes close to that is Soundview and coincidently Soundview that was just
renovated followed almost immediately with an expansion of 48 to put in safety barriers and
crossovers and you know I have no idea what the project cost but that was Route 48 where
there was room to do it. There’s not going to be any chance to do something like that on 25 and
you have two intersecting streets that’s Locust and Town Harbor and you also have the traffic
on a constant basis going in and out of the 7-Eleven across the street and if you’re coming
southbound on 25 you have a relatively blind curve and you have to slow down when you come
into town it’s very tight. It’s almost inevitable there will be traffic issues there (inaudible). I
share the concern that the other person said about the fact the study done in 2018 is irrelevant
and the fact that these people will be crowding our streets on weekends and all you have to do
is take a ride on 25 on a Saturday morning and from practically from beginning of town to the
first traffic light is bumper to bumper, from the second traffic light until you get out of town it’s
bumper to bumper and that’s without any additional activity there. So I’m not challenging the
experts but the common sense would dictate a second thought. One other point that I would
like to make is that I don’t know whether anybody has heard of the kind of smart communities
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initiative by New York State, Southold town is participating in kind of smart and some of the
things that kind of smart is trying to get towns to do is to inventory emissions, set goals plan
for climate action, decrease energy use, shift to clean renewable energy, use climate smart
materials, implement climate smart land use and most importantly reduce pollution. I’m almost
convinced that if this project goes in Southold won’t be able to meet any of those which means
they won’t get funding from New York State to support those initiatives and it’s a double lose
for us as I see it. Thank you.
th
RANDY WADE : Randy Wade 5 St. in Greenport. I want to agree with Sally Kahn and the others
that have talked about the lack of harmony with the character of Southold and the intensity of
use that is incompatible. There are 94 spaces they claim are required and they’ve brought in an
extra 66. This has to do with the banquet hall. I know you can make an exception for a hotel but
banquet halls are not either a permissible or permitted use in the code. So therefore all those
parking spaces would not be necessary but I would also say if this project were to get whittled
down so that it was an actual small boutique hotel and restaurant then perhaps that would be
acceptable but the landscaping should in fact be such that there would be no way to put a party
tent on it and I would hope that you would expect the applicant to come back without a
banquet hall and without any flat space that is lawn or whatever that could be used for a tent.
There could be landscaping, there could be pads. When I heard that it was fifty two percent
landscaped that was pretty shocking and I see there are the little bits of green around the pool.
It seemed like the whole thing is paved over is the bottom line. So the other thing in addition to
the banquet hall no rooftop activities that should just be outright denied. Then the other thing
is the speaking of affordable housing, there absolutely is a shortage and if they’re going to
create a business of a magnitude of a small hotel and a restaurant there should be some
number of affordable spaces that they should come forward with a proposal of maybe six I
don’t know what it would be and cause they are going to be taking from the pool of staff that is
already in short supply so it really would make a lot of sense. If they’re going to have an
exception and be allowed to have a hotel which you know you would have to approve that
should be on the part of the deal. No banquet hall and some affordable units thrown in and
that’s all. Thank you so much.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Should we do some more on Zoom?
ANNE MURRAY : Hi, I’m Anne Murray and I live in East Marion. To me this project is an example
of the Hamptons creep that is now everywhere in our town from the outsized homes going up
at every hamlet to the roads clogged from the trade parade is this what we really want
Southold Town to become? I think that the ever increasing loss of our unique character was the
reason why we embarked on the Comprehensive Plan process and the proposed Enclaves
Hotel’s intense use combined with the increase in traffic and tourist will forever change the
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town. The Zoning Board of Appeals should decide to respect the rural character of our
community before it’s too late. In effect the developer needs this special exception permit to
change the zoning in effect from hamlet business to resort residential but according to Section
280-34 of the town code the opportunity for resort residential intense development should
only occur if it is consistent with the density and character of surrounding lands. This project
will not enhance but detract from and even harm existing businesses and the surrounding
community of residents by overwhelming the area with traffic and it will prevent customers
from using nearby businesses. If approved it’s just going to be a disaster for the town and I feel
like the Zoning Board they need your approval to do this but you can say no. I’ve reviewed the
Final Environmental Impact Statement and I don’t see how you can say that this is consistent
with the town’s Comprehensive Plan which is a tool to support zoning decisions and support
current zoning when it’s challenged in our town. I believe that under New York State town law
once adopted our Comprehensive Plan should make sure you know it should be used to make
sure that all land use regulations are in accordance with it. So please carefully consider that and
the remarks of all the residents here who really believe this project is completely out of
character with the town. Thank you.
MARY JANE BRENNAN : Hi my name is Mary Jane Brennan. I live on Hobart Rd. in Southold just
south of the proposed site and good evening to the Zoning Board. I have a few very specific
questions. The first, will the Enclaves Hotel Corporation LLC entity as a resident property owner
in the Founders Landing Park District be able to host (inaudible) to weddings and event at the
Founders Landing Park District Beach what we call Founders Landing Beach whether indoors or
outdoors? That’s my first question because as a resident we’re able to do that we can have a
wedding there for $300 there’s a permit fee or act as a sponsor if underwrite it for tens of
thousands of dollars so that’s my question, will the hotel be able to do that at our beach the
beach by permit the way the rest the residents in Founder Landing Park?
MEMBER DANTES : We did these for comments about things like that and the response was to
direct all questions to Founders Landing.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We reached out to the Park District and they did write a letter to us
which we recently received and they simply said that they have by laws in place for both
resident use and non-resident use and they did not have an opinion one way of the other on
this project.
MARY JANE BRENNAN : So as a resident can have ten events on its site
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don’t know if a commercial business is considered a resident.
MARY JANE BRENNAN : Well that’s my question, I don’t (audible) entity or LLC
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CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you know Bill?
T. A. DUFFY : It’s a separate entity from the town and I’m not familiar with their bylaws.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think the thing to do would be to check with their bylaws. They do
have a Board
MARY JANE BRENNAN : You see where I’m going with this?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Of course I do.
MARY JANE BRENNAN : That this is the outdoor space they’re not (inaudible) right now on their
site. It could be at that small beach that has two toilets and it’s just anyway that could become
an event space and obviously for those of us in the community that would be significant.
DAVID ALTMAN : Madam Chair if I could answer that concern right now, there is no plan
whatsoever to use the Founders Beach facilities for outdoor events by the hotel, none.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You had a comment.
JAMES GRENAVILLE : What’s the legal requirement that’s all that matters. What’s the legal
requirement we can talk about intense and everything. Once you build it every community
(inaudible) goes out the window. I’ve gone through this on Long Island many times.
MARY JANE BRENNAN : Number two question, this is regarding traffic control for events of 100
people so we’ll have traffic control on Main Rd. 25 but what about when the hotel is in
occupancy so there could be 100 people it could be shy or it can be more than 100 people,
what about traffic control when it’s a great hotel weekend? It’s not an event but we still got
traffic issues. Is there kind of like at whim traffic control that will magically appear if it’s about
100 people? The next point the hotel is providing landscaping and parking and fulfilling the
Zoning Board requirements but what the hotel cannot do is enlarge Route 25 which we know is
the Main Rd. It cannot do that because it’s impossible and to reiterate everyone else’s concern
about traffic getting out of the Founders Landing community we’re landlocked we have only the
ability you know the beach whether we get out on a sea plan but to get on to the Main Rd. to
go anywhere whether a left or a right so its significantly changes our ability to do that and it’s
already you know we’re not mentioning Cottage Place because that’s a commercial street that’s
already hard to get out of (inaudible) catering trucks and (inaudible) and Mullen Motors so you
know we really don’t have four ways out and Hobart is a one way street so we’re further
landlocked as a community. I agree with Barbara who spoke first that the traffic impacts studies
that were done in 2018 are pre-COVID, they’re outdated and I do think they need to be
reconsidered. My third question is and this is sort of (inaudible) but relevant, if the spa is just
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for guests is that odd that the spa is just for guests like why wouldn’t it be open to the public. I
guess I thought that was odd that it was only for guests. So is this part of our community or is
this for people not from here? I just thought it was an odd that was new to me so just
questioning that. Finally last question, does any member of the Zoning Board live in the vicinity
of the proposed Enclaves Hotel south of Route 25 in the Founder Landing community?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I’m a member of the Park District. I live in Southold.
MARY JANE BRENNAN : In the vicinity of the hotel south of the Main Rd. does any Member of
the Zoning Board live in the Founders community?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No.
MARY JANE BRENNAN : Thank you.
HAROLD NEIMARK : Hi my name is Harold Mymark I live on Hoey Lane a short street off of the
Main Rd. I (inaudible) traffic I don’t know maybe two three years ago that you could come to
the green light and not make it through and wait for another (inaudible). Coming out of Town
Harbor Lane is very takes a lot of patience. I’ll leave it at that. My main question is, what
recourse do we have that I’m not casting any (inaudible) on professionals I was one. What
recourse would we have if mitigations fail? Can we go back and require where do we stand? It
somewhat seems to me it looks as if it’s whatever we’re given at that time or nothing that’s it.
Another question is, what kind of water are you going to use for landscaping, drinking water or
are you going to use the well? You use a well, are you willing to monitor the water level? If
you’re using water the water under our homes is going to draw out eventually. I think that’s
enough thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you.
DAVID ALTMAN : Madam Chair can we address some of these comments at this point?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let me do this. How many can I just see a show of hands how many
more people in this meeting hall want to make comments. Okay we have one, two, three, four,
five, six, seven, eight let’s say. I’m just trying to gauge the time everybody is getting a little tired
I’m sure but we will stay here as long as it takes okay.
OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : I have four more.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You have four more. I’ll tell you what, let’s do two from Zoom then
we’ll come back here I just want to make sure everybody gets an opportunity to speak who
wants to be heard.
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
SHARON MCKEO : My name is Sharon McKeo.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And where do you live?
SHARON MCKEO : On Town Harbor Lane.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What would you like to tell us?
SHARON MCKEO : Hi. So where would we find out a plan about what is planned for the
beaches? Can someone speak to that?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I will ask the applicant when they’re ready to do that. I’ll have them
address what their plan is as soon as we hear from everybody who wants to talk and then we’ll
let them answer your questions.
SHARON MCKEO : Okay cause I think that’s a really important point as someone that lives here
and you know that’s where I go and I’ve seen an increase in traffic on the beaches and people
walking down our street. I can’t imagine a shuttle bus, I can’t imagine people we’ve already had
such an increase that and also to make the point, people are saying that this is going to bring
jobs I have teenage children or children that are in their twenties that this isn’t a sustainable
type of job. We need to bring businesses that I just can’t imagine they have trouble having help
as it is. North Fork Table already has trouble finding help as it is. So I just want to make that
point.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay thank you. Let’s bring in one more person from Zoom and then
we’ll go back to the meeting hall.
CONOR HARRIGAN : The idea that this won’t impact traffic I think is pretty misguided. I think we
need to just take a look at 7-Eleven across the street, see what we see in front of our eyes when
we drive through Southold town on your average Thursday thru Sunday. The people in question
opened Southold General if I’m correct, someone can correct me if I’m wrong on that. That’s a
café right in Einstein Square and I know they do have plans to open further concepts in that
area. There are cars that are out there all the time and that’s just the café that fits I don’t know
a couple of dozen people. When we’re talking about a hotel that has 40 rooms you have to
understand the average hotel doesn’t just accommodate people that are mentioned in the
official roster meaning the roommates sleep too but often times people bring three or four
okay so we have to understand that there’s always a little bit of an over accommodation of
people they don’t even know about. The idea that this is not going to impact traffic in an area
where we have a coffee shop, restaurants, bars, a grocery store, a coffee shop, furniture stores
that have opened up in the last eighteen months we have seen the effects of that right.
Whether you want to judge the traffic effect of being right or wrong is a different question but
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
the idea looking back at the changes in Southold town in the downtown area in the last two
years people have the gall to say that there will be a negligible or a minimal traffic impact is
insulting to anyone that lives in Southold town. I don’t care if you’ve been here two years or
five years or fifty. We have a multitude of businesses that have opened in the last two years
and we have all seen the impact on traffic that has occurred. So you’re going to tell me these
people are going to tell us that a 40 room hotel that is then going to host events of 100, 150,
200 all this stuff that there’s going to be negligible effect on traffic. It’s laughable and it’s
insulting to anyone that is independently (inaudible) about this. So I have to say to the town to
the Board to everybody involved you have to understand that these people are going to put the
best picture, best face on this situation that they can put and the traffic assessment from 2018
it’s further insulting to the people of Southold town in light of everything’s that happened in
the last three years since then. We’re not fools, we’re taxpayers we deserve better than this.
Whether the project goes forward or not the idea that we’re to be held to a standard of a traffic
assessment from three years ago pre COVID is elementary, it’s insulting, it’s stupid and needs to
be labeled as such. I want to say one more thing and don’t cut me off. This group of people you
have to understand something about restaurant people. I’ve worked with more restaurants
than anyone in this room, they’re going to put a happy face on everything, they’re going to oh
yea, oh no we’re never going to do more events than what we say, we’re never do this oh no
we’ll never go past nine o’clock. It’s a bunch of BS I know it and everyone here knows it and the
town residents of Southold, Cutchogue I don’t care where you are on the Northfork we have a
right to stand up for ourselves against big city money interests that really in the end (inaudible)
hire many more workers, they don’t provide jobs that are longtime sustainable for Northforkers
and they don’t really care about the Northfork aside from the fact they have a tourism
opportunity to pounce on. No to the Enclaves, they already have Northfork Table & Inn, they
already have Southold General they’re opening another concept next to it, they have the Shoals
which is the former Heron Suites what else do they want? That’s all I have to say. This is all a
bunch BS masqueraded as some sort legitimate study of impact on the local area and shame on
everybody that is entertaining it. So from the premise that we’re going to entertain this whole
thing with a study from 2018 the whole premise of this discussion is false. The entire thing
doesn’t even deserve to be considered in light of that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : How many more are on Zoom?
OFFICES ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : Two more.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright let me take two more in here and then we’ll get to them.
KEN CAMPENELLI : Good evening, Ken Campenelli, Founders Landing. A couple of things I’ll start
with. Can this old house that’s historical can it be demolished and what are the legal measures
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
in place to protect this house from being demolished? Typically the developer gives you the
sweet little talk and as soon as they move in things get knocked down, (inaudible) will be put on
the front lawn this is the pattern throughout Long Island and we’re relying on the same
environmental impact statements, the same laws, the same town code which I’m highly familiar
with and look at the crap that this has resulted in west of here. This legal system these codes
that are in place do not protect anybody from anything. It allows developer to run rampant and
this is the last little spot on Long Island we all move east to get some peace and quiet so you
can think. I live in a two acre village I come here on weekends. Despite all the zoning
protections had they deforested the whole town maybe we’ll treat (inaudible) invasive species
and now you can clear the entire two acres. This is the lawyer disease that’s overcome the
whole country and specific on Long Island. Just for the record I have a Bachelor of Engineering
Degree what they say is reputable school, Master’s Degree in Business graduated in top ten
percent. I spent forty years in the engineering profession, I work with many studies and
honestly I’ve shot holes and made a living basically shooting holes in a lot of these consultant
reports. For example not to pick on you the sound study I’ve read it, I’ve done sound studies on
gas turbines for a lighting company the question is use dba or you take measurements of
specific frequencies and I noticed that you also mentioned that you have taken the sound level
readings at appropriate locations. That’s a lawyers bonanza if I ever saw one okay appropriate
locations? A five decibel increase for 50 people on a rooftop and I noticed they say no amplified
music you can have a band with ten people screaming their lungs out and 50 drunks it’s not
amplified with artificial means but this is what you’re going to end up with singing Sweet
Caroline into the morning. I live in Founders Landing the other issues that we talked about the
beach does the town and beach at the end of Town Harbor Lane okay I see nothing in the town
code that addresses who is entitled to use that. I know there has to be an occupancy restriction
cause there’s only like ten parking spaces which we’re going to have within walking distance
and shuttlebus distance you can pull in hundreds of people from the Enclaves. Also I don’t
notice if they’ve ever mentioned I think there’s something that the Board needs to ask, what’s
the total occupancy of this site? They break it all into little pieces, the restaurant has this, the
hotel has that 44 rooms, you know damn well the reality is look around Long Island okay you’re
going to have eight people per hotel room. There are 500 sq. ft. and that’s what the kids do. At
six hundred dollars a night you jam eight people in. You’re looking at 500 people based on my
calculations I’ve done math for my living for my entire career, real math not you know
(inaudible) the point is that the Founders Landing neighborhood development has 200 homes
this is the equivalent of constructing 100 new homes on this little seven acre lot. If we need to
talk high level because that’s in the end what we’re going to get. This is something it belongs on
Mars or something. Southold I think needs a long term vision to make it look like a New England
town like Cold Spring Harbor, maybe like Stonybrook. I look at 7-Eleven here there’s not
architectural standards here it looks I don’t know who’s been planning and trying to preserve
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the character of this village but it’s embarrassing. I’ll just go through real quickly in summary,
Enclaves (inaudible) own private drunk fest that will destroy the peaceful quality of life for
Southold residents, will overwhelm the village and the Founders Landing neighborhood with
the equivalent of 100 homes I’ve said that. Enclaves will overwhelm our neighborhood with fifty
percent increase in transients. Founder Landing park and town and beach cannot handle the
constant surge of transient hotel guests. By the way if you look at the Park District website it
states that it’s residence if you look at the code the hotel guests less than fourteen days is
considered a transient. Now the lawyers can twist and bend anything they want that’s how they
destroyed the rest of the island so I would suggest you look at the definition of transient versus
resident and the town and beach. It can only handle maybe three or four dozen people and it’s
going to get overwhelmed with 500 drunks coming down at three in the morning. It’s well
known that the Enclaves drunk fest business model okay has destroyed many Long Island towns
okay, we should expect nothing different and to quote Einstein, (inaudible) doing the same
thing over and over again and expecting different results okay. We’re building a drunk fest
we’re going to end up like some of these little towns that have gone down the toilet and to
expect a different outcome with the same business model I think is crazy. This is one of our last
easternmost villages however if we built the strip mall in Southold we will now complete the
world’s longest strip mall. Since no one in the gang can stop the gangs overdevelopment of
Long Island maybe we should mitigate the damage. I think one thing that Planning Board should
look at is there should be a parallel road built north adjacent to the Long Island Railroad and
use that easement so at least people retail businesses can enter from the north side adjacent to
the tracks to get into their little retail empires rather than interfere with Route 25. Has the
Board looked into anything like that?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It isn’t within our purview.
KEN CAMPENELLI : Why isn’t it under your purview?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Because we grant relief from decisions about zoning. We don’t even
make zoning. The legislative body of this town makes zoning not the Zoning Board. We are only
allowed to review as an Appellate Court, the Court of Appeals decisions made by Code
Enforcement and Building Department Officials, that’s what a variance is. With Special
Exceptions they are allowed to come to the ZBA because we retain original jurisdiction over
those and those we will send to the Building Department to see if they need any variances.
That’s a separate kind of application but we hear appeals, we don’t create zoning. Our elected
officials are the ones that do that and they’re trying to do some additional update obviously
through the Comprehensive Plan but that’s over there that’s not what the ZBA can do.
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KEN CAMPENELLI : So the system is greatly designed to just promote chronic development
destruction of Long Island. It’s a brilliant legal system but at the end of the day we’re destroying
the last areas of rural peace and quiet on Long Island and I don’t see why they cannot run a
road along the railroad I’ve done this in New York City, I’ve worked with the MTA on it it’s a lot
easier than you think it is. The Highline did it in the middle of Manhattan so there’s no reason
why a little village like Southold a one horse town cannot use the MTA access. Honestly in my
own opinion is this country is like thirty fifth in the country in math and science and we look at
a broken system to keep duplicating the same stupidity and development cause nobody
understands math and science anymore and it’s all a bunch of legal rhetoric.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you for your comments.
AMY OHR : I’m here from Founder Landing neighborhood. My name is Amy Ohr and I live at 625
Terry Lane so I’m right on the beach right next to Founders Landing. We are going to live
between two party venues. Within one half mile I know the distance cause I walk my dog every
morning, we’re going to have parties on either side of us so in those ten days that’s exactly
every Saturday night through the summer those ten dates they’re giving out and those are the
same days they’re going to be having parties at Founders Landing. The thumping of that base
we’re going to hear it from every angle. Parties do not end at ten o’clock even though they
might turn off the amplification people come onto the beach, they’re drunk, they climb on
boats, they try to break into houses all of that has happened to me. I see the beach filling up, I
see people coming on either side onto private property and particularly that Town Harbor
Beach it’s completely dependent on the neighbors on either side being kind and letting
everybody sit there. Its’ got hundreds of people there already on the weekend. In addition I just
want to say one more thing about the traffic, nobody talks about pedestrian traffic. How are we
supposed to get across the road? We can’t get across the road with a car you can’t get out
there. I walk right out into the middle of traffic and because I have white hair and a little white
dog people stop for me but that’s the only way I can get across the street and also bicycle
traffic. We want people to be walking and riding bikes, we cannot get across the street as it is.
Thank you.
TERRY WALKER : Hi my name is Terry Walker, I live in Southold. I’m a very proud fourth
generation east end native. I was originally born in Southampton, grew up in Hampton Bays and
I watched Hampton Bays, Southampton, Westhampton get turned into what it is today. My
husband was from Cutchogue and I moved over here in 1978 and have been here ever since. I
have family I’m very happy to have family here. In the early eighties there was a slogan, Save
What’s Left and yeah Save What’s Left after I get mine and that’s basically what has happened. I
really as a fourth generation I feel like crying when I see what is coming and yeah because
people turn their head the other way, I own a business and they turn their head the other way
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for the sake of the business. On the other side of it is the garbage. I pick up garbage constantly
on our beaches and I can’t imagine that this Enclaves is going to generate more garbage in our
town. People that come here their towns where they come from pick up garbage so they’re
going throw garbage. Our towns don’t do that again taxing our resources. They say Police okay
they’re asking for a 44 room hotel they’re going to come back and ask for 44 more rooms or
somewhere around there. It’s like McDonald’s they’ll push and push and push till they get what
they want. They got enough money and enough lawyers to get what they want is now slogan is
and I’m just here to say enough is enough. These developments I’m sure they’re very nice
people but they’re from up west. Their developers, their investors are from up west. (inaudible)
are going to go up west they’re not going to be here. They’re going to bring in out of town help
and resources to fulfill their need. It doesn’t help me as a resident, it doesn’t make me part of
that and that’s very upsetting so I feel like I have a voice here and we are the residents we
matter.
CHARLES SCHWARTZ : Good evening Madam Chairperson and Members of the Board. My name
is Charles (inaudible) I was a resident here in Southold and I am still looking to become a
resident again here. I live up on Long Island in Long Beach and my practice as an architect is in
the city it’s in the (inaudible) in Nantucket and I have to commend you on your requirements in
reference to there’s not a historic district commission here. There’s a conservation commission
here although (inaudible) put these people through and the application to provide all of the
instances and all of the required information that can be debated one way or the other. I did
not hear that there were any issues with the Long Island Railroad whistles I don’t know if
anybody complains about those coming back and forth. I didn’t hear anything about Orient
Point Ferry traffic that has been going on for years and driving through and that seems to be
okay. I heard that there is debate on how the aesthetics of the architectural looks when we also
hear that we’re talking about it should be like doing I think I believe it is like doing I believe that
the door here the Board in Southold is standing up to the criteria and holding people
accountable to meet the Special Exceptions. There’s nothing here as of right that’s required for
these people to do anything. They’re local they live here, I want to live here again and my
feeling is that to reduce the if they can improve the property by two hundred percent they
could have inundated it with anything that would further impact the land, the services, the
community and to put together a package and spend years and years and debating whether
traffic. The report that was done in 2018 or October of 2020 which is was and what we dealt
with and what we can handle in the pandemic since March of 2020 and this was done in
October of 2020 I think we’ve all been subjected to some tremendous, tremendous effects that
everyone is overlooking. There’s a property here, it’s been zoned for, they meet all criteria they
no one is asking for a variance they’re asking for special exceptions to use and improve the
property that they it’s our right to pursuit of happiness.
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Stop that please. Please don’t
CROWD YELLING – UNRULY : You don’t live here we don’t want that stuff here.
CHARLES SCHWARTZ : I’m a resident was a resident here looking again to be a resident here. I
was on Jasmine Lane.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Look stop I’m going to suspend this meeting if we have more
outbursts. This is not to be tolerated. I asked you to be respectful of everyone. You will all get
your turn. You can all voice whatever you wish, this Board is prepared to hear everyone okay
and please be courteous. Don’t interrupt other people it simply isn’t productive. Thank you.
CHARLES SCHWARTZ : Thank you Madam Chairperson, I would like to say one other thing cause
I appreciate that. It’s not easy for me to stand and speak publicly and to subject myself to this
kind of ridicule, for what. I want to voice my opinion, this is why we’re all here to do and the
facts read for themselves. Thank you.
MARGARET STEINUGLER : My name is Margaret Steinugler I live on Cedar Beach Rd. in Southold
good evening. Most of what I am going to speak to I’ve learned this evening. I have one sort of
nitpicky comment and three that are a bit more general. The nitpicky one, Mr. Altman
mentioned that among the benefits of the application is to provide jobs. I’ll echo what others
have said, there’s actually a shortage of labor I checked in this area, I checked right before this
st
meeting and as of October 1 the unemployment rate in Southold is 3 to 3.2% which most
economists would view as the natural rate you’re never going to have zero. So to the extent
that providing jobs is an impetus for approving this Special Exception I would suggest it would
be discounted. Second, I would like the applicant to specify how many of those jobs are full
time and provide benefits. We probably all know people who work multiple part time jobs
without benefits just to make ends meet. My next comments come from my experience of over
twenty five years in product design engineering and product development. I understand well
design requirements which in this case are like the zoning requirements and design intent. We
heard a lot tonight about design intent. I’ll just say that even the best experts and the people
with the most deep expertise in very arcane technical subjects and make mistakes. That is how
we have the Tacoma Narrow Bridge collapse, that’s how we have the 737 max (inaudible) into
the ground, that’s how we have condominiums collapsing in Florida. Engineers and I am one are
not perfect even when reviewed by other expert engineers these things happen. So with that
context I’d like to challenge some of these statements that the applicant made, is there another
intent to develop a catering hall? It’s good but that reality and intent often deviate in these
kinds of projects. So I’d ask what recourse the town or this Board has should that intent in
reality deviate? The applicant has said that they have no plan to use Founders Beach. Again
intent and reality can deviate. What recourse does the town have if that intent should not be
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met? Third this is kind of 2C, third element here the applicant has the obligation to notify the
town when large events will be held. What recourse does the town have if the date of the
planned event is somehow massively inconvenient to the town? Maybe there’s going to be
other events generating a lot of traffic on that weekend. I just ask what the recourse is? My
third point, the idea of having requirements for a design and a design that meets those
requirements doesn’t always work out. You can have the best set of specifications and maybe
they’re not met. In the spirit of understanding the track record of the applicant with respect to
meeting the design intent of their projects can they provide to the Board history that says this is
what we specified in other applications and these are the actual parameters that resulted
because any expert any modeler any predictor will tell you that models are always wrong but
they’re sometimes useful. So a model that makes a prediction that meets the requirement may
be wrong even when it’s reviewed by all kinds of well-intended experts. So I would ask them to
provide accurate track record on how their proposals how the intent of their proposal is
actually meets the requirement or fails to meet the requirement in the final project. Fourth, I
see zoning rules as a communities attempt to quantify the black and white fashion those
aspects of a project that will make that project consistent with the community spirit or the
community standards. I would propose that it is impossible to a hundred percent quantify what
makes a project consistent with a community. There is an intangible an unquantifiable a quality
of aspect I think a lot of people have expressed that this evening and I would ask that the Board
consider that even a project that is as well qualified quantitatively I would say even with design
margins because the applicant clearly pointed out that the project is within the zoning
requirements. Even that kind of design margin can fail to meet the spirit of the communities
standard and the nature of the community. So I would just ask the Board to consider those and
perhaps address some of my questions about the recourse. Thank you very much.
ROBERT BOHN : Hi Robert Bohn Boisseau Ave. Southold. I see three rows how many people in
these three rows live in this town? One, two, three, four that’s great I appreciate that because
the more I listened in my shop about two hours ago with my son we’re playing we’re hanging
out I got the thing on Zoom I’m listening to it, a lot of red tape a lot of (inaudible) noise. The
basic bottom line is does this project fit the genre of place and it doesn’t. I think the horseshoe
of people who live here will appreciate where I’m coming from as a fisherman (inaudible)
regular dude. I grew up I dug holes, I chopped roots, I am Southold and the people that want to
build this place don’t get the feel of Southold. This whole thing does not fit the area and again
it’s the same (inaudible) beat but I just don’t get how with this much resistance you as a Board
could let it get this much (inaudible). This does not fit Southold and (inaudible) you can put
track studies this that light studies, noise you guys have never sat in a field on a dead quiet
night without any wind pushing any noises away and I experience (inaudible). So you’re going
to make your money same old story build, build, build but when it’s gone it’s gone. My point is
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
round through ten times tonight but I don’t know how to put it in perspective people that are
not from here.
KERI BARR : Keri Barr Mattituck. You know they always say that if can never happen here and I
guess it’s happening here. I was just questioning when these guys did their last feasibility study
on their project which seemed to be five years ago when they started and the cost of
construction you know over doubled in the last five years. You’re talking about a fifteen, sixteen
million dollar project at length without you know soft costs and stuff like that, that’s a lot of
money. I want to know what the feasibility is when they consider the amount of Air B&B’s that
are in this community. You probably have within a three to five mile radius of here six, seven
hundred rental houses that have three to four rental bedrooms in each one which means
there’s about two thousand hotel rooms in this area and that’s their competition are these
hotel rooms and the people rent them for the week or the weekend whatever it is they are
rented that is your competition in this area. I don’t know if these guys are aware of that they’re
spending a lot of money. I mean what happens if this thing doesn’t work? You got a catering
hall, you got cottages, you got this you know what’s going on around the country everywhere I
don’t know if you follow was goes on in the country. Every little city, town throughout the
country I don’t care whether it’s Montana if it’s Oregon if it’s Florida they build these hotels
forty units with catering facility restaurant and they become basically not affordable housing
but like a subsidized housing for immigrants coming into the country. They’ll settle these
people, they will pay the two thousand to four thousand dollars a week that’s required to
house these people. They have you know recreation centers a six thousand square foot building
that they want to do weddings and say 355 days a year the building is going to sit empty and for
ten days a year you’re going to spend a couple of million dollars to use something for ten
nights, it doesn’t make sense. So that becomes like a center where you can teach people their
rights, teach English as a second language or whatever you want to do but these people will
come and occupy this place they put four or five people in a room and then you got a place to
educate them and then give them their rights. You have to have a restaurant where you can
feed them so they have a place to eat. Now all of sudden you got a place that makes sense at
sixteen, eighteen million dollars when you put this in and now it changes a community and
basically you’d rather be irresponsible for that change. They say it couldn’t happen here, it can
happen anywhere it’s happening all over the country and it really scares the hell out of me
because there are a couple of good projects. I don’t know what the demand generator is for
this property it’s not on the water. If it’s on the water we all know that the water sells okay. The
other time you got a lot of competition from Riverhead and the surrounding areas I don’t see
demand generated for Southold town and I don’t even see you with ten events a year at the
catering facility. So it’s something to consider, there’s nothing you can do that once this project
is built and things go bad that you can stop renting those rooms out to those people and you’ll
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
be stuck with them and then the community picks up the tab for the schools and everything
else. If the Federal Government walks in and the Federal Government hey you have six acres
here you know what we can put temporary housing here, we could put another you know a
120, 150 units right here cause you got seven acres. You can’t do anything about it it’s no
longer in your jurisdiction. These properties are scary especially when they got hotels,
restaurants whatever else they want to put on there they want to keep a little hotel with
twenty rooms or whatever with an owner or manager it would go great with the community
and we wouldn’t have a concern that the owner would be on the property. Once it’s gone it’s
gone as somebody said before and then you have no control over it so
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you for your comment. I just want to make sure (inaudible)
we did ask people to try to speak for no more than five minutes but I just want to tell that we
rather air on the side of time available for people to be heard so please try to be (inaudible).
How many are on Zoom?
OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : I have three and two have been waiting extra-long and they
have been anxious to speak.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright let’s let them go.
PAUL ROMANELLI : Hello my name is Paul Romanelli, I live in Cutchogue for the last twenty five
years and I own a business and property on the Main Rd. in Southold. I want to first thank the
Zoning Board for holding this, it’s not an easy meeting to have. I sat on a Zoning Board thirty
years ago in the Village of Farmingdale and I don’t envy your positions to make these decisions.
I’m going to stick neck out here a little bit. A little bit of background, I sat on the Board of the
Northfork Chamber of Commerce, the Cutchogue Chamber of Commerce, the Greenport-
Southold Chamber of Commerce, I was a stakeholder in Cutchogue Hamlet during the
Comprehensive Plan and I also sat on the Northfork Promotional Counsel. Our goals with all of
that was to drive business into our beautiful Northfork, to encourage development of business
in the Northfork and specifically to drive business into the hamlets. Well it’s been twenty five
years of doing that and we got what we wanted. We now have a town that is a hamlet and
township that has been found and visited by thousands of people every weekend and through
the summers our B&B’s are booked nearly year round now. Our hotels our full and there’s a
need for more hotel space in this town. I also have studied and watched over the years a
number of traffic studies and I have yet to find a traffic study when presented on a final analysis
that was wrong and I believe this traffic study is accurate and true. When Founders Village was
built people complained traffic, dumping onto Youngs Ave. there’s ninety two homes in there
and traffic is not a problem. Harvest Pointe in Cutchogue has 124 homes being built, people
complained about traffic and it is not a problem. The traffic studies are important they work. A
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comparison to 7-Eleven is facetious that is a 700 sq. ft. building that is designed to do turn
around and have hundreds of customers going through its doors every day. This project is
exactly in the area where it should be and furthermore it is hidden. Really you’re not going to
see this hotel from the street and I think that’s really important for everyone to realize.
Additionally there’s a little bit of history with these owners of this property and their other
properties. I know for a fact at Northfork Table that building has been restored. It was
structurally unsafe before they purchased it and is now thriving and a beautiful location.
Rothmans Department Store as much as we all loved was a fire hazard and a problem and the
beautiful Einstein Square that we now have thanks to these investors is quite impressive. So
there’s a track record here of improvement to our downtown that I think is critical in the
analysis of this. Today Einstein Square was full of people and they’re not just visiting Southold
General they’re getting up they’re crossing the street and going to the Pharmacy, they’re going
into the Compliment the Chef store, the Party Store next door. These things are what drives
business in in our village and what we want as thriving villages. All of our businesses suffer
through the winter months for years. Some people shut their stores down or struggle to make it
through those months; that’s all changed there’s no question about that but these types of
projects help our area not just with jobs but with helping our businesses grow and I think that’s
critically important. Furthermore, this property is already zoned for hotel use. It’s a matter of
the Special Exceptions what you’re talking about tonight and I think that’s important for
everyone to remember. They can build a hotel there they would just have to make changes to it
if they just wanted it to be a plain vanilla building I think the improvements that they’re looking
to make make a lot of sense. I also investigated the company PW Grosser that actually put the
study together and they have a stellar track record with their studies and I think all of that
needs to be in the record. I think that’s it I have nothing else to say.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay thank you, one more person from Zoom and then we’re going
to go back to here.
MARGARET DECRUZ : My name is Margaret DeCruz I live in Greenport. I’ve been there for the
last seven years as my full time residence and I moved there because it’s a sweet town and it
has just grown so much. To me unfortunately I know to businesses its fine but I think that I
heard at some point that somebody said well it used to be a fishing town and a boat building
town and now it’s a tourist town and I really don’t like that that paradigm and I think that it
would be great for us to use our imaginations and create things that are actually needed to
bring regenerative community to where we live. We need to supply good jobs, good skills for
young people and as it is there’s a shortage of people who know building skills and farming
skills and all kinds of stuff that’s why there’s you know but we need to what I think is create
ways to educate people give them skills, teach them how to repair things, to build things. So I’m
asking for looking at the Comprehensive Plan of Southold Town and not just going for a tourist
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thing cause people who come they love it but they don’t live here and the other thing a lot of
the jobs that are created by these whatever they are businesses they’re not really good jobs.
Just creating a job isn’t enough to me. I think they should be good jobs for young people who
will then want to live here and we could create housing for them. I’ll just add two more things,
that railroad idea of a road I didn’t like the road idea but I think we could make it into a really
nice bike lane cause we need that in our town. I looked up Enclave because I like to look up
meanings of things and in the Oxford Language Dictionary this is what it said, a portion of
territory within or surrounded by a larger territory who’s inhabitants are culturally or ethnically
distinct. A place or a group that is different in character from those surrounding it. So I thought
that that was pretty interesting. Yeah so let’s have some more imagination about how to use
our spaces and thank you very much. I’m enjoying being at these meetings, I think it’s great. It’s
a part of our town it’s wonderful and I’d like to keep it that way. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think we have one more that has their hand up? Okay let’s do that
and then come back and have comments here and then I will let the applicant go ahead. Okay I
think we lost Zoom. Let’s give them a minute to see if they can fix that. Why don’t you go
ahead. Wait a second is this still recording, Donna are you recording?
OFFICE ASSISTANT WESTERMANN : It was recording I don’t know if it’s still recording. Liz is
frozen too. I wonder if it’s the whole area.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We certainly have to have our recording that’s for sure. The room is
recording so at least what’s in here is recorded okay. Then as long as we have a recording I’m
okay with it maybe we’ll get the Zoom people back up but why don’t you go ahead.
NANCY BAYLIS : My name is Nancy Baylis and I live at 1055 Holbart Rd. and my husband and I
moved here twenty five years ago. We left Huntington my husband was a bay man there and I
was a teacher and we wanted to raise our children in a place that was close to nature and we
found that in Southold. My boys grew up fishing and clamming and they both live in the city
now but they absolutely love Southold because they’re so tied to the nature that’s here and I
really appreciate that about Southold. So you know and also I love living here and I’m retired
now and my taxes are like $9,000, $10,000 a year but I don’t mind because I love the schools, I
love the beaches, the town, the people and but like I think Einstein Square looks beautiful but I
can’t afford to eat there at Southold General or at Northfork Table and Inn and I won’t be
staying at the hotel anytime soon and that’s the problem. Is it for the community and my
question is do the benefits for the community outweigh the detriments? I don’t think
(inaudible) but the other thing is I just want to quote Joannie Mitchell when she said don’t it
always seem to go that we don’t know what it’s got till it’s gone they paint paradise and put up
a parking lot.
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CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anyone else in the audience wanting to address the application?
JOAN BENKEN : Hi my name is Joan Benken and I live at 250 Hobart Rd. where it’s a one way
street. One thing that hasn’t been talked about yet I’m just wondering with this building of
course it’s going to be blacktop parking lots whatever we on at least on the north part of
Hobart we have a flood problem when it rains it comes down Hobart like a river. I’ve been
knocked over already trying to get across the street. So I’m wondering you know with more
blacktop how that’s going to affect our street as far as flooding goes and (inaudible) floods my
basement floods anytime there’s a heavy rain. My other concern was to be not only the beach
at Founders Landing but all the beaches in Southold. (inaudible) people can be at the Sound
beaches. I don’t want to take up too much time but I feel the way a lot of the residents do, we
don’t want to be another south shore and that’s what attracted us to this area was that it’s
rural and that we have the beaches and my family has been here since 1938 and I’ve lived here
full time since 1985 and I’ve seen a lot of changes. I know we need progress but I really
(inaudible) this hotel and I’m also concerned about the traffic.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Are we recording?
BOARD SECRETARY : We are recording.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Then we’re fine. While they’re doing that it’s getting really late and
the applicant has to respond so I’d like to let you go ahead and make your comments.
ALISON KATZ : My name is Alison Katz and I live at 270 (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : As I said earlier we are holding this open for written comments so
that individual that we lost on Zoom will be able to submit anything they wish to do to say in
writing if we can’t get them back. We’re going to try but the frenzies of technology. It could be
the link from the town, that’s happened before. We could have lost the internet. Please go
ahead and testify.
ALISON KATZ : My name is Alison Katz and I live at 270 Westphalia Mattituck so I don’t live in
the town of Southold. I’ve lived out here for eight years full time and my husband and I own a
business in Mattituck. So I have the same concerns about the traffic and staffing, every small
business owner I know has staffing problems and problems with affordable housing. So I
wanted to address the sound issue because our business is on Sound Ave. in Mattituck and last
year the Roadhouse went up which I’m not complaining about the Roadhouse but I live on
Westphalia which is Strawberry Field if you know the area and then the greenhouses behind
Strawberry Field and then where I live. We can hear the music from the (inaudible). So that’s
much farther away than any of these house would be from this property so I just want to add to
give some insight into the noise. It does go on late but we’re far enough away that it’s muffled
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but we do hear it and I have friends who live at Founders Landing and they’re much closer than
we are. I also just wanted to say you know we moved out here and opened a business and I
think change is good and I just think that the change should be good for the community and not
so much for the businesses that are opening.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you, I saw a hand up did you want to say something?
UNNAMED SPEAKER : The techno list we scheduled a whole full on meeting?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No.
UNNAMED SPEAKER : Why not? People haven’t been heard.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : One person was not heard.
UNNAMED SPEAKER : Could be the one person.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That person has the option to send something in in writing. We
cannot just hold the meeting it has to be legal noticed, it has to be mailed.
UNNAMED SPEAKER : Let’s do it again, there’s a lot more info to be heard here.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I’m going to shut down this portion because I don’t see any more
hands so I’m going to summarize some of the things I heard, see if it gels with what you’ve
heard Mr. Altman and I’d like you to address the public’s concerns. Some people were
concerned about an outdated traffic study and the increase in traffic over the last year in
particular. Others wanted to know about how the Founders Beach is going to be used and what
about shuttle buses and what about traffic that way and what plans you have for using the
beach. The third thing is the frequency of smaller events in the future event space. In the FEIS
we acknowledged the fact that that came a little bit later in the day because the events were
moved indoors and we have not evaluated as a catering facility. Even with the limitation of ten
large events what are your plans for small events in that space throughout the year? That has
to be evaluated that has not been addressed in the FEIS. There was a question about dark sky
compliance and you know pollution from light spill over. There were several questions about
community character, the scale of the particular project, the number of rooms in comparison to
the other number of rooms with other hotels throughout Southold town which is considerably
more. The sixth was an impact on the historic house itself both structurally and in terms of I
think someone said about the rooftop bar being attached there hopefully that’s accurate but
I’m going to let you address that. The seventh one was the use of irrigation for landscaping,
how is that to take place and also some onsite drainage control to make sure that no flooding is
with all the paved surfaces takes place. Finally the track record of other projects you have done
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adhering to the parameters of the project as currently proposed and in prior examples. That’s
kind of a summation of a lot of comments. I’ll let you take it over now whoever expert you
want.
MEMBER DANTES : I have one more Leslie, comparison between the 7-Eleven and (inaudible)
with the parking and the traffic versus the proposal for (inaudible).
DAVID ALTMAN : First and foremost and there are a great deal of comments relative to traffic
I’m going to ask Ron Hill to step up and address some of those comments particularly the
(inaudible) to the initial study from 2018 subsequent updates. I think there was a question
relative to a signal perhaps and then of course (inaudible) question as it relates to the 7-Eleven
across the street.
RON HILL : As I said the study was the first date of collection was in 2018, when we do a
comparison like this we always add growth into our projections for the (inaudible) year and
that’s already in there. The Board’s consultant asked us to go out last fall in October and do a
gap study which essentially is we recorded traffic on Main Rd. for three hours. That was all
counted the amount of gaps and traffic that would permit turns was adjusted and it
collaborated with what we said in our report. So October 2018 is also after the great migration
so we should have included that or that should have updated the study and also said that
would end up doing studies relevant to COVID counts to 2021 were generally adjusted rather
than taking it down to get a baseline. What’s happening today not necessarily what will happen
next year, it could go down as people return to the city. More people moved out the amount of
people visiting or going to work (inaudible). With 2020 counsel said we’ve got it covered, with
regard to the traffic light that’s strictly the purview of the New York State DOT. Anybody can
write them and request the study and they will conduct it. If the town writes a request for a
study they’ll probably have more impact. Again anyone can write as long as it’s in writing or call
up and ask about this.
DAVID ALTMAN : Mr. Dantes had a question about the impact of the 7-Eleven.
RON HILL : Well we can have the 7-Eleven.
MEMBER DANTES : I’m saying tell us the difference between a hotel and the 7-Eleven regarding
traffic.
RON HILL : We’re generally substantially less traffic that’s what you mean and we use that
comparison in the study and the counts for the (inaudible) road study.
DAVID ALTMAN : I’ll just add folks as mentioned repeatedly throughout the most of the
evening, these findings relating to the traffic study and the updates preformed were done in
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consult with this Board’s independent consultant reviewed by this Board’s independent
consultant and accepted by this Board and incorporated into the Findings Statement dated
th
October 7. At this time I’m going to ask Andrew Giambertone to come back up and address
some of the other topics that Ms. Madam Chairwoman that you (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well while you’re up here, do you want to address the concern for
the shuttle busses?
ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : Andrew Giambertone again for the applicant. I’m going to go kind of
randomly through the comments we received. Regarding the dark skies, in the Findings
Statement and in the town code there is a portion that requires that the proposed building
fixtures will include fixed lighting and to mitigate light trespassing and glare all lighting will be
shielded directed downwards at an intensity compliant with Chapter 172 of the town code
outdoor lighting. The proposed lighting will comply with the lighting standards set forth in the
code 172-5 and will be subject to review and approval by the Town of Southold Building
Department so it is our intention to absolutely adhere to the provisions of the lighting code. It is
not our intention to make this a spotlight but to provide adequate lighting for walking around
the site at night and as otherwise required by code but again it will all be shielded and directed
downwards. Regarding Founders Landing, to be perfectly honest with you at this point we have
not given serious consideration to how Founders Landing may or may not fit into the business
plan. We were under the impression that as taxpayers in the community people who came to
the hotel had the right to use it but it is not our intention to make it a feature of the hotel. To
the extent that the rules and regulations of Founders Landing permit it and within the
guidelines that they create we might take advantage of it but it is not going to be a feature of
the people that are coming to this hotel. We’ve developed an extensive outdoor entertainment
area and the people who come to stay at the hotel will primarily be staying there when they’re
not walking around the town. It is not our intention to have a shuttle bus. You may have some
people taking bicycles and riding around town they may find their way down to Founders
Landing but it is not the intention to have parties or large gatherings at Founders Landing and
any activity at Founders Landing by hotel guests will be within the clear confines of whatever is
permitted by the Founders Landing Board and their rules and regulations. Regarding the
historic house, can a historic house be demolished? Yes, it does not have a Landmark status. Is
it our intention to demolish it, no absolutely not. We’ve got through great lengths in meeting
with members of the S.H.I.P. (NYSOPRHP) office in Albany, we’ve gone through everything from
retaining the character of the moldings and the unique architectural details in the interior to
maintaining the aesthetic of the outside. We were asked to remove shutters because they were
felt to be too decorative. In terms of the structural integrity of the building the only way really
to maintain a building like that is to keep its inherent structure intact which is exactly what
we’ve done. If you look at the floor plans there will be minor modifications to the layout of the
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building. It is our intention to keep the primary structural (inaudible) as they are and if we can
find a shingle in the attic that has a date on it we will certainly feature it as part of the
restaurant. We’ve got through great lengths to work with the S.H.I.P. office and they have
thoroughly reviewed and analyzed the layout not only the exterior aesthetic of the building but
the interior layout from everything from the (inaudible) casings to the staircase and in their
review they’re satisfied with the measures we’ve taken to preserve the quality of that building.
As far as the spa goes, we would welcome the residents of Southold to come and use our spa in
the off season. It is not our intention to keep them out, it was a dictate by the Town of Southold
that the spa only be used by hotel guests and that I believe was a result of trying to maintain
traffic on the roadways. So the feeling from the Town Board was like limiting access to the spa
to hotel guests you would limit otherwise traffic. The irrigation system will be accommodated
by well water which exists on the site. So storm water runoff, I believe what Nancy was
experiencing is probably a result of the fact that most of the houses in and around her home
have their storm water runoff either onto the driveway or the lawns which collects goes down
the street and the lowest house on the street tends to collect it. We’re going to be subject to
extensive drainage review by the Town of Southold Planning Board. All the drainage and storm
water will be one hundred percent retained on-site as is required by town code. There will be
an extensive drainage plan prepared by PW Grosser that will be evaluated by the town and the
town Planning Board and their experts and they will confirm that storm water drainage will
completely be retained on-site. Regarding staffing, businesses everywhere in the United States
are suffering from lack of staffing and that’s primarily resulted by the extended unemployment
benefits going on indefinitely. Southold is no different than any other community. We have
plans in place to try and encourage quality people to come here. We’ve purchased homes in the
area to provide housing for employees so that they don’t have to commute long distance and
can live in the community and be part of it and we’ve made every effort to in our business plan
accommodate how we’re going to staff this. Our expectation is that we generate fifty three new
jobs. As evidenced by the other businesses that this business group has been involved in you’ll
see that the jobs they create are in fact quality jobs. As a way of reference I’d like to point out
that the group of investors that are involved in some of the other projects that have been cited
include local builders, local marine owners, local merchants and local business owners. They’re
not just people from the city they’re people who live and work in the community and have
vested interest in the ongoing success of Southold. Relative to other options for the property,
as of right without approval by the Zoning Board we can build a 30,650 sq. ft. office building
which would require 364 parking spots. That would generate certainly more traffic than 44
hotel rooms. There was a proposal for 29 multiple housing units which was subject of a long
term lawsuit with the town and ultimately it was settled most recently which was the former
applicant to this project. There will be no party tent as outdoor events are not permitted under
the current guidelines set forth in the Findings Statement, this is not a banquet hall it’s not
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capable of being a banquet hall. What’s important to understand is relative to other big scale
projects going on in the community, this piece of property 6.75 acres which is unique. There is
not another substantial piece of property zoned hamlet business anywhere near Southold
central. This is one of the only pieces of property in Southold as a town that is zoned hamlet
business that has the ability to have a project such as this. All development in any area within
the business district is subject to the ability of that piece of land to sustain whatever is going to
be built upon it. This project has been carefully (inaudible). We are not looking to maximize the
development, we have been very respectful of the development on the site. We’ve tried to
minimize the input to balance it with our business plan and make it a successful project without
imposing in terms of magnitude on the community. We’ve gone to great lengths to hide the
building behind a hedgerow so that it’s not visible from the street and does not deter from the
unique in terms of character of the Main St. area.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I’m going to ask you to just pause for a moment. We’re getting
messages from the office that there are some people that are really trying to get back on Zoom
and as a courtesy to the rest of this community because I think they will all be interested in
hearing what you have to say and if they can’t they can’t. I think I’m going to pause this for a
couple of minutes just to see if you can possibly fix this.
BOARD ASSISTANT : We tried to restart but it’s asking for Wi-Fi. I had Lloyd on the phone, he
told me to restart and it won’t connect.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I’m afraid we lost the Wi-Fi.
UNNAMED SPEAKER : You’ve lost the Wi-Fi.
ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : Madam Chairwoman, as this is being recorded and a transcript will
be available to the public to read and we’re talking about the tail end of a very lengthy
presentation I would suggest that if anybody wants to hear my comments that they be afforded
the opportunity to have access to the transcript and then respond in writing during the three
week period allotted by the Board.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well in addition to a transcript this is recorded and we will be able to
even supply a recording if there’s preference for that. I just think that it’s just really unfortunate
that this happened. I think the vast majority of people that were on Zoom had had the
opportunity to talk and there was one person left I don’t want leave that person short
(inaudible) in any way but I believe we’re going to have to continue with this meeting as legally
noticed. I do have just a couple of questions that I’d like you to address. We did not talk at all
about the use of the proposed future event space and it has been defined as a catering facility.
That has not been addressed in the FEIS and I’d like to know what plans you have for other
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smaller events. We limited larger events a hundred or more people in frequency. We had done
nothing to talk about other events you might have in that space. That’s a very expensive space
for ten events. So surely you must with that kind of investment have something in mind for
smaller events there. If you don’t I’d like to hear it and if you do I’d like to know what that is.
ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : I’d be happy to address that. As I said at the inception this project
was conceived of as a boutique hotel. It was our intention to run a high quality unique boutique
hotel experience for discerning cliental to come and enjoy the benefits of Southold as well as a
respite from wherever they’re coming from in their communities. As an opportunity to
augment the off-season expense of running a hotel when hotel guests are not as frequent as
they are in the summertime the possibility of having events such as weddings and fundraisers
was considered and as part of the DEIS and then the Final FEIS process it was deemed by the
Board that those types of events that might be held in a tent outside would generate unwanted
and undesirable noise and other character that was inconsistent with what the Board was
looking to approve. So as an accommodation the Board required that if we wanted to have
events, if we wanted to have events between 100 and 250 people we’d actually have to build
an addition onto the building to accommodate those and yes that will be an expensive
proposition and we have to really carefully consider our business plan to assess whether or not
that investment is worthwhile. I want to stress again it is not designed to be a catering hall. This
is not (inaudible) daughter’s baby shower or have a christening party on the weekend it is not
the intention of this hotel. This hotel is intended to have discerning cliental, not to have eight or
ten kids in a room, you’ll have to register at the hotel check-in, you’ll have to register your car,
it’ll be a very well maintained and well supervised operation. I can tell you that from experience
on some of the other projects that we’ve been involved in we’ve been able to maintain that. So
as it pertains to smaller events within the confines of the restaurant could you have a party for
ten people for a birthday party absolutely that’s an absolute possibility. Are we looking to turn
this into a catering hall absolutely not. It doesn’t make sense for our business plan. It’s
counterintuitive to the guests that we’re hoping to attract on the weekends. Can you imagine if
you’re going to come out and spend a fair amount of money for a weekend with possibly a two
day minimum that you might be subject to walking through somebody’s baby shower. So it is
not the intention of our business plan to entertain significant small events. If it makes sense
business wise we would entertain building the larger events space for parties of 100 to 250 but
otherwise we may forego it and not until we see how this whole thing plays out will we know.
Have construction costs increased? Absolutely, I wish we had approval three years ago it would
have been a lot less expensive to build at that time and every year that this goes on
construction costs increase and it becomes more and more difficult to make this financial
viable. We have extended tremendous expense not just in developing plans but in paying for
the Town’s consultants which were selected by the town not by us selected by the town but
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paid for by us as well as the team of people you see in front of you this evening. So we’ve made
a tremendous investment here where we’re not a fly by night organization. I think our track
record in terms of what we’ve tried to do in the community speaks for itself in terms of
bettering the community and I think what we’ve presented here this evening is absolutely with
consideration for the community character and hoping to improve the Southold business
district. Relative to my track record I have been a licensed architect for over thirty years. My
office is in an 1870’s restored Victorian. My home is a 1925 Mediterranean style colonial. I have
built a reputation on doing traditional classical and historic homes from day one. Anyone is
welcomed to take a look at my website and you’ll see a plethora of projects that have been
executed to exacting standards so what we put on paper we make sure is executed exactly in
conformance to the construction documents that have been produced for that project and I
would expect that I’m part owner in to be any different. Anything else?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There was one question about and I think it’s important for the
public to understand this. It was a question about why can’t people go to the spa? It wasn’t the
Town Board it was the Zoning Board that realized when we require events to go indoors we
assumed it would be in the basement. Instead what came back cause it wasn’t much down
there but laundry. Instead what came back was a proposed addition for a catering facility or
event space we’ll call it and an amplified kitchen and a full spa in the basement which was an
indoor swimming pool with massage available and so on. You asked the Board you wanted to
run it make it open to the public in off-season to generate more income. We determined that
that would be running yet another business on this property and that was just more than what
we though not just cause of traffic but because if you’re going to have events and I in the public
hearing asked you if larger events were essential to your business operation and you said no.
You said we want this. That is why it was limited down to ten okay and discussion was, if you’re
going to have that many cars going in and out at the same time as opposed to destination
traffic which is what a hotel generally has they (inaudible) there. Then we were going to have to
make sure that the streets were not clogged with people trying to get in and out. So I just want
the public to understand why this was changed. It wasn’t to deny the public any benefit.
Everybody knows out here we’ve only wanted an indoor pool like in forever, this is not the way
to get it. That is a separate business and operating a spa on top of a hotel with events was far
too intense a use on the site. Everything that has to be there has to be incidental and accessory
to the principle use of a hotel. I just wanted to make that one point. Is there anything else you
want to say.
ANDREW GIAMBERTONE : I just wanted to close with one excerpt from the Findings Statement.
As indicated in the market study Appendix G of the DEIS, the hotel will meet an existing
demand. Rather than visitors traveling by car for day trips the proposed hotel will allow for
guests to overnight for one or two or several days. Upon implementation of the propose action
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it is expected that most visitors would frequent the hamlet business center taking advantage of
the hamlet’s walk ability and diverse business offerings. That’s from your Findings Statement.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything else from Mr. Altman?
DAVID ALTMAN : I just wanted to close with a thank you to the Board and having done this as I
said for thirty plus years now it is not uncommon to see this sort of reaction from members of
the community and that’s what we’ve experienced and I understand that. With that being said
you have to I would ask this Board to separate the speculation and fiction from the fact and the
fact has been thoroughly analyzed by this Board in conjunction with its consultant over the last
three and a half years that resulted in my opinion very well thought out and very
comprehensive fifty three page Findings Statement and I would ask the Board to continue to
maintain that level of objectivity and inquisitiveness as it relates to the facts presented tonight
not people’s speculations, not people’s unfounded concerns and
SOMEONE FROM THE CROWD : We don’t want it here.
DAVID ALTMAN : With all due respect and at the end of the day to realize the benefit and I
think this Board has and has incorporated that into the Findings Statement recognizing that this
is a benefit to the community on the whole and that the applicant has in fact met the criteria
for the special permit standards. So with that being said we would ask that you look favorably
upon the application. Thank you for your time.
th
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We will be holding this meeting open until November 4 for written
comment. Anyone here who wishes to summarize anything they heard or add to anything or
talk to someone who wasn’t able to be here or reach out to the person who I don’t know who
was on Zoom who didn’t get to talk. The transcript will be typed and it’s going to be a long
transcript and it’s going to take a while to get it typed but we’ll be working on that and it will be
available to the public so you can refer anybody you want to, to that. I want to thank everyone
here for their cooperation and their patience and I want to also thank you for your interest. We
like you live in this community and the one thing I’ve learned over many years is where people
live they are the experts. The Zoning Board has a legal obligation to follow the law but we really
appreciate your involvement in the community and all the comments that you’ve made and it’s
all part of the formal record.
MARY MARISEL : Mary Marisel 260 Founders Path. I’m not against the hotel, the event space is
what’s very concerning to me as far as traffic and I’m not going to go into what everybody said
already but in terms of the ten events per year with no more than one a week
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No, no, no, no, no it’s ten per year but they can’t schedule those ten
like all in one week or two on one week. It’s spacing them out.
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October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
MARY MARISEL : Right not more than one per week.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes and a maximum of ten.
MARY MARISEL : Okay and my concern is it could be all summer and I think maybe some
restrictions can be put on that’s a little more a little further cause this can go from June until
the end of August. This is why people come out here in the summertime, they want to be by
the vineyards and to have this going on all summer is very disconcerting.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay I got your comment. Alright I’m not going to accept any more
comments thank you for your comment. I think we’ve kind of exhausted this at the moment.
We do have ongoing recourse. Things can be submitted in writing. Should any approval take
place site plan approval and review of the architectural design by the Architectural Review
Committee will also be required. So just to know that there’s been many hoops that all of us
have had to jump through and they’re not finished yet. So is there anything Bill that you want
to say at this point?
T. A. DUFFY : No.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything else from the Board? Okay Hearing no further questions
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and comments I’m going to make a motion to adjourn this meeting to November 4 for the
purpose of receiving written submissions by all interested parties and again thank you for your
participation. Is there a second on that motion?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Seconded by Member Acampora. All in favor?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. The motion carries. That concludes this meeting, thank you all
for coming.
October 7, 2021 Regular Meeting
CERTIFICATION
I Elizabeth Sakarellos, certify that the foregoing transcript of tape recorded
Public Hearings was prepared using required electronic transcription equipment
and is a true and accurate record of Hearings.
Signature : & 4 9-�u4t
Elizabeth Sakarellos
DATE : October 22, 2021