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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-08/09/1989-FISOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD FISHERS ISLAND August~9, 1989 1:00 P.M. A Regular Meeting of the Southold Town Baord was held on Wednesday, Aucjust 9, 1989 at Fishers Island, New York. Supervisor Murphy opened the meeting at 1:00 P.M., with the Pledge of Al,legiance to the Flag. Present: Absent: Supervisor Francis J. Murphy Justice Raymond W. Edwards Councilwoman Jean W. Cochran Councilman George L. Penny IV Councilwoman Ruth D. Oliva Town Clerk Judith T. Terry Town Attorney James A. Schondebare Councilwoman Ellen M. Larsen SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. We have a very short agenda, and then we're going to open it up for public comments. We have four resolutions. The first one is to authorize an appraisal. I would like to offer that. 1.-Moved by Supervisor Murphy, seconded by Councilwoman Oliva, it was RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes and directs Town Attorney Schondebare to obtain two (2) appraisals of the Frank J. McBride property located adjacent to the Landfill at Route 48, Cutchogue, New York. - 1.-V0te of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilwoman Oliva, Councilman Penny, Councilwoman Cochran, Justice Edwards, Supervisor Murphy. This resolution was declared' duly ADOPTED. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Number 2 is to authorize another appraisal. 2.-Moved by Councilwoman Cochran, seconded by Justice Edwards, it was RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby engages the services of Lewis Edson, at a fee of $100.00, for the purpose of conducting an appraisal of the major subdivision of Farmveu, so the Town Board may determine the amount of money to be deposited with the Town in lieu of land for park and playground purposes, all in accordar~cewith Section A106-38E.(3) (Subdivision of Land) of the Code of the Town of Southold. 2.-Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilwoman Oliva, Councilman Penny, Councilwoman Cochran, Justice Edwards, Supervisor Murphy. This resolution was declared duly ADOPTED. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: The next two resolutions are ones that people of Fishers Island, I know, have been anxiously awaiting. Number 3'is a resolution of support for the Walsh Park Housing Program. 3.-Moved by Justice Edwards, seconded by Councilwoman Cochran, it was RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby goes on recorcJ in support of the affordable housing program at Walsh Park, Fishers Island. 3.-Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilwoman Oliva, Councilman Penny, Councilwoman Cochran, Justice Edwards, Supervisor Murphy. This resolution was declared duly ADOPTED. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Number 4 is to accept a Covenants and Restrictions on the subdiVision know as Walsh Park. AUGUST 9, 1989 4.-Moved by Justice Edwards, seconded by Councilwoman Cochran, WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Southold is in receipt of the proposed Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions for the subdivision known as Walsh Park, Fishers Island, and owned by the Walsh Park Benevolent Corporation; now, there- fore, be it RESOLVED that the Town Board hereby accepts the proposed Covenants and Restriction for the subdivision known as Walsh Park, subject to the approval of ~-Town Attorney Schondebare. 4.-Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilwoman Oliva, Councilman Penny, Councilwoman Cochran, Justice Edwards, Supervisor Murphy. This resolution was declared duly ADOPTED. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: I would like at this time to introduce the Town Board members, who are here today. On my left is our great Town Clerk, Judy Terry, next one is Ruth Oliva, Councilwoman, George Penny, Councilman, Jean Cochran, Councilwoman, and your own, Judge Edwards, and James Schondebare, our Town Attorney. I believe everyone has a list of everyone who came over on the boat today, so I really don't want to go down the list, except to mention a couple.of people who have worked very hard for Fishers Island. One in particular is our Highway Superintendent, Ray Jacobs, and of course, our great Poli'ce Chief Dan Winters. And we also have with us the Commissioner of the Suffolk County Depart- ment of Public Works, Joe Hurley, in the back. We have, also, Doctor Harris, the Commissioner of the Suffolk County Health Department here today. We have to mention our Village officials, who did come over today, from the'Village of Greenport. We're glad that they take part in this. They are part of Southold Town, as Fishers Island is part of Southold Town. Jim Monsell, Superintendent of Utilities, is here, and Gall Horton, the Trustee. As you know, next year is Southold Town's 350th Anniversary, and Gall Horton, who is very active on the committee would like to make a little sales presentation. She's got some mugs even for sale. Gall, why don't you come up, and just take a few minutes. GAlL HORTON: I'd like to say, this is our first commen~orative thing that we're beginning to sell to raise money for the celebration, and these are mugs. They are the official anniversary mugs. If you want to buy them, I have them here for $5.00.We are doing things in Fishers Island, because you are part of Southold Town. Your project is the school children. I've already been over here and presented it to the school, and the children are going to do a mural, and we're going to have...not an exchange program, but we're going have homes open so your children ~ho would like to come over and see the celebration, to come to Southold and stay with people throughout the Town over the weekend. Another thing that we would like, we're doing moments of history on the local station, so if anybody has any history about Fishers Island, I'll leave my name and mail box, so that you can get it to me, and that's it. If anyone wants a mug after the meeting, I'm here with them. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Also, as part of the celebration of Southold Town's 350th Anniversary, we have a big fund raiser. Cross Island Ferry is donating their new boat in the middle of September and we're going to have a cruise to nowhere, so anyone is welcome on Fishers Island. If they would like to come, but unfortunately the boat is going to be sailing out of Orient, but if anyone from Fishers Island wanted to go, I'm sure we can make arrangements that you could leave from New London when that boat leaves. The Town Clerk has tickets. Anyone want to contact, call the Town Clerk, and she could arrange to get you tickets on it. It's $25.00 a person, I believe, and it's a lovely new boat and it's a good way to raise funds for our big celebration next year. One other person I neglected to introduce to you was a very good friend of the handicapped people in Suffolk County, Bruce Blower, Director of Handicapped Services, who comes over here each year, and by the way, Southold Town is the first east end town to get into a program that Bruce has adopted, which is nationwide program, to find people who park in handicapped access. Bruce Blower is one of our great' people who ~ are looking after the handicapped. Bruce Blower. First, I would like to ask any of the Councilman if they would like to make a statement to the people on Fishers Island. Ruth, do you have any comments? COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Yes, I just wanted to say, you've all been concerned about having Fishers Island designated as a critical environmental area, and first off, you already have part of it due to the County with 500 feet, but that does not include your wetlands. But on speaking to our Town Attorney, and the rest of the.Councilpeople on the way over this morning, we think it would be just easier to designate all of Fishers Island as a critical environmental area, and just means that is a type 1 action, and you fill out a long assessment form. It doesn't go into a draft environmental impact statement, but it just points out that it is a very special area, and you should really look at it very carefully. Another one of your concerng was about the zoning for your hamlet business as far as a motel, and we will be taking that up in Code Committee, and see what we can AUGUST 9, 1989 do for you. Also, you did ask that you do not Larry Penny coming here to do inspections anymore, and we hope to have somebody else to see if they will work with you, because they had . a very nice job for us on a couple of projects that we have asked for. So I hope you'll be able to have that in the very near future, also, and it's just great being here on such a beautiful day, and seeing such a nice turnout. Thank you so much. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, Ruth. George? COUNCILMAN PENNY: I'd just like to thank some people who were very gracious to us here on the Island. Sonny Edwards loaned us..I came over on a private boat with some of the Town officials last night, and Sonny Edwards loaned us his car so we could ge~'~around. I Want to thank him for that, and John Ski for his hospitality and breakfast this morning, and we got to watch one of his videos from one of his northern trips, and it was pretty exciting. Everybody should see and probably most of the people on the Island have at least heard about it. Also, for the people that we met last night here, here in the comity of the legion hall here. I appriecated that, and it was nice to be here again. Thank you. · SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, George. Jean? COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: Some of us where fortunate enough to. have a tour - with John Clavin of the Walsh Park site this morning, and hopefully, with the passing of the covenents and restrictions today, the next step would be certainly the final from the Planning Board, and we certainl~encourage them to move it along as quickly as possible. Also, in chatting with Bruce this morning on the boat coming over, we did reach the conclusion that we certainly would support Fishers Island, the entire Fishers Island being designated as a critical environment area. I would like to take this opportunity to thank each and every resident of Fishers Island for the kindnesses you've shown to me as my past five years as an elected official of Southold Town. This is probably my last visit as an official. Hopefully it's not my last visit to Fishers Island. Through the five years I have met many .nice people, made friends, and I've even gone home with recipes which I've used many times over and over again. So once again, thank you for your past support, for your kindnesses, and I look forward to seeing you again in the future. Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, Jean. Judge Edward? JUSTICE EDWARDS: Just a few notes. I think the Town Board will agree with me, we have more people in the audience here than we have in Southold, probably six months all added together, maybe for the year. it's good to see the turnout, and let's get on with the show. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Again, thank you. Who ever arranged this weather for us today, thank you, and it certainly was great, and at this time I would like to open the meeting up for questions of myself, the Town Board, any of the public officials that we have here, on your concerns. Hopefully we can answer them today. If not we will get an answer for you. So let's have some questions. I'm sure there's many concerns. In the back. BRAD BURNHAM: Brad Burnham. We were very comfortable with Larry Penny. We felt that he was a expert on freshwater wetlands, and we think it's very essential that the Trustees have an arm's length relationship,'.f~o have the relation with one person, and for the well site coming along, the determination is not made by. the same people. So we're to understand there is some division here as to his problem, but we would not feel comfortable about any replacement for Larry. I gather from what you say that such a replacement is okay_with the Board. I don't know what procedure you plan to use but we would like to know ahead of time who you have in mind, and check out with John Thatcher, whose our expert over here, and I hope that will be done. · COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Absolutely. We'll try and the next Board meeting talk about it, and see if they can't contact you at least by first ,telephone and then perhaps through a visit and see how you all get along. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: It, also, has to start with a request. BRAD BURNHAM:. Will you take care of that? I think you already a request by.. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Individual problems, as they come up.. JOHN THATCHER: Just that we need a person with Larry's qualifications to come here on a regular basis, and not only advise us, but has a little clout. AUGUST 9, 1989 SUPERVISOR MURPHY: That was an easy one. Anything else? STOWE PHELPS: I'm Stowe Phelps, and I have a house here. I heard mention about a motel. This is the first time I've heard mention of a motel. Did I not hear? COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Well, it was just in, let me just read the letter that everybody sent over from Fishers Island.. a thorough review of zoning changes as relates to their impact on Fishers Island's environment should be done by Town authorities in coniunction with leaders of local Fishers Island organizations. As an example, present zoning law wording that would allow new hotel or motel con- struction on Fishers Island to proceed on as little as one acre of land should be changed, primarily because Fishers ~lsland fragile and sensitive environment simply can not withstand such density. New wording to be substituted in, it gives the section, making the minimum lot size for a new hotel or motel construction on Fishers Island at five acres instead of one. This would bring Fishers Island into conformity with Southold's precedent setting resort residential zone, which already exists with the five acre hotel/motel minimum land requirement. And this is something then our Code Committee will be looking at for you. STOWE PHELPS: Are there any applications for such a motel on file? COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: To my knowledge, no. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: I hope not. Anyone else? BERNADETTE WALSH: How difficult would it be to change the zone.. COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: I'm Chairman of the Code Committee, and we have several other members here around the room that are members of the Code Committee and it's really not that difficult. We'll just review it and then we have to set up the procedure that we send to Planning Board, the County Planning Commission, do a SQER review on it, probably negative , it's upzoning, we set it to a public hearing, it's passed. It takes about two months. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: In the back. Yes? VINAL CURTIS: I'm Vinai Curtis {Unintelligible) for 43 years now SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Is it a private road or is a Town Road? VINAL CURTIS: It's considered a private road SUPERVISOR MURPHY: You could talk to the Town Attorney and the Highway Superintendent on how to do that legally to change it from a private to a town road, and it will probably have to be brought up to different specs too, but, yes, that can be looked into. COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Mrs. Walsh, were you specifically talking about the zone change for a motel or hotel, not the critical environment? BERNADETTE WALSH: For the motel, yes, change for zoning. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Okay, anyone else. ALLEN. ESENLOHR: My name is Allen Esenlohr. I have a question about the hotel, motel. It seems by upgrading the zoning, it only allows for larger hotels and motels~.~ COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Now, I think, ask John. ALLEN ESENLOHR: Other than creteria, other than having more lot size, I don't understand why. COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: That's the whole idea of it. The one piece that can have a motel, if I'm correct, John, is a one acre site which fits into a hamlet business zone, and what we want to do is just exempt Fishers Island, that the only hamlet-business area on Fishers Island to be five acre, so therefor it prevents a motel or hotel from being built. A'UGUST 9, 1989 ALLEN ESENLOHR: A hotel with'a:h:~.rid~ed rooms:Can be built on five acres.. COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: But they don't have the land area that's zoned for that in order to do it. Do you Understand? This you'll have to work out with the attorneys. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: It might be better to go this way than just eliminate it because then you can be sued. ALLEN ESENLOHR: You can be sued both ways. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: It's a no-win situation, but by changing your density or the size of the property in effect you are eliminating certain parcels that possibly could be;' but you.have to be very careful that way. Yes, any other questions? SPEEDY METTLER: I'm Speedy Mettler, President of Fishers Island Civic Associa- tion. I have to ask you two questions for the people who wanted me to ask that aren't here. First is that we have three specific areas were we have a drainage problem on the Island. We're hoping that maybe something can be done so that these areas are relieved of the drainage problem, around the Mobil Station, around, the Firehouse, and around the Post Office there's a constant water problem. It's bad in the summer, but of course in the winter it's even worse. There's ice right from the main intersection of town, and we hope the Highway Department could steer in that direction to help us out of that problem. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Let me answer that. We have the guy here,who is doing a great job on maintaining the roads over here on Fishers Island. If he has time before we have to leave, he could go look at these sites, and if not, he could arrange to fly over, and look at them, and definately put them into his workman schedule. Ray, is that correct? SUPERINTENDENT OF HIGHWAY JACOBS: I have looked at two of those sites, already, and we'll be doing something about it. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: We still have one man in the back. He has pne more question. Speedy? WOMAN FROM THE AUDIENCE: I would like to add, make it four places. One in front of the grocery store SUPERVISOR MURPHY: We've got the man right here. He's the guy that's capable of doing it, and making this happen. SPEEDY METTLER: The second one is a little more complicated. There's been so much talk about the garbage, the various problems we have, and are likely to have, and how much it's going to cost. I just thought I'd like to get a few things clarified for us. What do you think is likely to-happen~, How much is going to be paid for by the Town of Southold, and how much is going to be .paid for by the Fishers Island Garbage District? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Okay, it's a problem that's not just in Fishers Island. This problem is all over Southold Town, all over Suffolk and Nassau County, all over the State, all over the Country, on how to dispose of garbage. We have a serious problem here. The 1990 Landfill Law, December, 1990,' your landfill is going to be closed. We know that for a fact. Southold Town's landfill will probably be closed, if we don't have a resource recovery facility in place. These are facts, and it's going to happen. Probably the best immediate solution for Fishers Island,and this is my opinion only, the Town Board will talk about it, would be establishing, and i think we have an obligation to establish a transfer station on Fishers Island, if this is the way people on Fishers Island want to go. If they want a go in another direction, fine, but my opinion, the cheapest way would be the Town establish a transfer station. The material on Fishers Island is transferred to Southold Town Landfill, and it's going to be up to Southold Town, the rest of the Town, to decide on how they're going to. We will have a referendum on the general election on a bond issue for approximately $9,000,000. to build a composting facility. There will sufficient money in that $9,000,000. The estimated cost of the plant is about a little over seven and a half million, and there will be money in there to build a transfer station on Fishers Island, and the garbage transfer over to Southold Town. Even if that is voted down I still think the people on Fishers Island should look to Southold Town to establish a transfer station and get the garbage off Fishers Island. You're going to have recycling here. Recycling is going to be mandated by 1992. in New York State. You're going to have to have it here. It's mandatory. This is what I Would think your best solution, to get it off your island, because the cost of an incinerator is absolutely, should be out of the question on Fishers Island, should 5 AUGUST 9, 1989 be out of the question on the most of the East End Towns, because of the cost of it, but that's going to be up to the people. The answer to the 'question is definately I think you should tranfer over to Southold Town Landfill. You are part of Southold Town, and that's were your garbage belongs, and it should not be buried on Fishers Island anymore. SPEEDY METT/ER: Does anyone have any idea on what the expected cost will increase, or percentage tax increase might be on this? Do you have any idea what to expect? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: The cost on a 15 year bond issue .... SPEEDY METTLER: Well, the cost ...on a percentage basis our taxes might go up? · ' , SUPERVISOR MURPHY: I believe,,I don't have the figue here, but I believe it was around $23.00 per thousand dollars of assessed valuation for an $8,000,000. bond issue on a 15 year basis. So you can multiply by what your house is assessed at and that would be the increase. Now in this figure is just the cost of it. There is no credit for any po~ble revenues that you could have out of it, the sale of compost, the tipping fee from out of town waste haulers, and the tipping fee from out of town sludge haulers. Sludge is another major problem. After 1990 you can not put sludge into a landfill, so that's going to join garbage in taking the truck route, which is fantastically expensive, and onl.y adding to · your cost. You're not going to be able to landfill this material anymore. So we're facing a lot of big costs, but we can reduce that cost, and we also have the possibility of getting, and a very good possibility of getting State grant to assist because it is an enervated and a new design. NATALIE RAFFERTY: Have you considered recycling in the Town before putting it in to the incinerator, and think it would make us more conscious of what we're using and how, and down the road there may be a market for it for packaging and so forth down the chain, and would we be able to realize a savings on this, if we found it was possible to do this sort of thing? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Recycling is going to be mandated. As I Said, we have -- to recycle. Not only just because the law says so, but because our pocketbooks will say so. We can not afford to keep mixing everything together, and not recycle. Some of the material that you can recycle has a great value. Some of it might not have a great value and you might have to pay to dispose of it, but it's going to be cheaper to dispose of it that way than trucking it all mixed together. Definately recycling has a big part in it, and we have to do it. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: Frank, may I add sometl~ing to that. I'm a member of the East End Five Town Recycling Committee in the area of education, and as some of you may be aware or not, we received a grant from New York State for the purpose of educating people to recycling and hiring a coordinator. Well, the coordinator has just been hired. He's a very well qualified young man. He comes from Maryland, is his home, and he's been working in California presently, and we have great hopes. But in thinking, and attending committee meetings, I'm thinking, I had given thought to Fishers Island because of your unique situation as to how you can...you are a part of Southold Town, but how can you become a part of this recycling program. The Committee has gotten as far as looking at the land over at Westhampton Airbase, because that's federal land. They have given us a site that can be used. It's next to the railroad siding., and it's felt that if not only the five east end towns bond together, but also, the ten towns in Suffolk, even extending into Nassau County, to do a coordinated recycling effort, because, of course, you have a better waste stream, and you'll see businesses open up to lake care of these because New York State DEC has been trying to get businesses to come into New York State as far as the recycling of plastics making bulkheading and on and on and on. There's a hundred different things -- that can be done with plastic , paper, all recycable. These companies will not come into to New York State because they have no guarantee stream. Well, atleast the County works together, and if not Nassau, too, then we're able to guarantee a certain stream so you'll see new technology in bussinesses open up. So we are involved as five east end towns. We are working now that this coordinator on board we hope to move a little quicker, and this tranfer station type idea would be the one that will be located in Westhampton. So it's on the horizon and there are people working towards this end. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, Jean. We did try to have this new man come over here today, but his schedule wouldn't allow it. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: He had a meeting today. AUGUST 9, 1989 JOHN THATCHER: One question that most of us want to know is, should we begin recycling on Fishers Island or should we ship everything over to Southold, and then let you take it from there.~ This is a very important distinction. 7 SUPERVISOR MURPHY: I thir, k you're going to have to recycle on Fishers Island. JOHN THATCHER: We have one problem with that. The only recycler in our area is a man in Groton, Connecticut, and at the moment he can take only bottles and cans. That's it. He can not take newsprint. He can not take plastics, so at the moment we're very, very limited on what we can do. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: John, I would say hold up a little bit until this five east end town bit develops a little bit further. You will be doing recycling. I almost think you're going to have to do it at the iiome, source sep ration right at the door of each individual home, and then your separated goods will be have to be transported to Southold. I mean that's my opinion. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thi~ is going to have to be worked out with your garbage district, eventually how you're going to transfer this material over. If we go into a series of containers, you can start by doing that. But if you get rid of glass and cans, you could start that program and send it over to Connecticut. We have no way of taking __recyclable materials and doing anything with it, and there's nothing worse, as Jean said, in a recycling program to not be able to get rid of the material recycling. If you made an effort to separ, ate it, you don't want us to throw it into the landfill. JOHN THATCHER: This is what we're faced with. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: But you have to start slow. PETER BURR: My name is Peter Burr. We live down in the Fort area, and the Fort area is a little like the Roger Dangerfield, because we get no respect, and I'd like to say that we very much enjoy living down there, and I'm :lot the spokes- person for that group of what we call the Gang of 43 now, because a couple of years ago there was a sewer district set up for the purpose of processing the waste from those 43 homes, and after our last civic association meeting, Ray Edwards asked if he could see any and all the families that were at that meeting, would they please come over after the meeting. We did, and Ray said,you've got a problem. We said, we've got lots of problems. We're constantly fighting, you know a little bit of issue might be worth while. Before it was active, and I'm not going devulge my age, but I remember .when it was still active. I was small. It was very self- sustaining. I think the only thing that is didn't take care of itself was water. It had it's own theatre. It had it's own bakery. It had it's own medical facilities, and it had everything. It used to dump it's waste into the ocean, and for years after we purchased these homes back in about the mid-60's. We tried to get that problem solved, because we were also were very helpless with that problem. It took a long time to get it done, and I would suggest probably, even though that water was testing pretty clean, even one problem existed that was'nt solved. I'm not sure it's been solved anywhere on the Island based upon what I heard thi. s week, but we seem to have it solved. Now, Ray tells me, you have a problem. He said, you have a He said you'd better get your association together, and try and figure out what happens if there's an expense beyond what you're being assessed for. This is above the tax that we pay every year. We have been assessed and we pay it twice a year. Because Ray says something broke, and we just had to spend a thousand dollars, and probably your assessment is going to go up. And I said, you mean to tell me, if we don't get a group together, the assessment goes up. The problem's ours, and there's no way to solve it. He said, that's it. I said, Ray, why isn't this considered part of our tax, a part of our tax? Why isn't this something that the Town participates in, or writes us a letter, and tells us that something broke, or that the guy that put this thing in, didn't put it in right, which I think is probably the problem, i'm a little confused as to why all of a sudden we have to get the town together to come up with an answer that makes sense. I'm giving you the facts, solve them. So I ask you, sir, number one, is it our problem all by ourselves? Number two, is it up to us to pay for it totally, or is there some Town protection here? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Unfortunately for you, it's a special district, and a special district, the people in that special district pays for everything. You do have a reserve fund in your budget that will pay for a small amount of the major problems. We don't anticipate. There is a firm hired on the Island, who maintains the system. We have an engineer. There is a problem developing now on a leak that we're not sure of, if it's part of your system or not, but going back to your original question. Yes, infortunately it's all those people in that special district. Thank heavens for FICO. FICO was very instrumently in bringing this about. They put all the unfront money, and they put up quite a bit of money to build this AUGUST 9, 1989 plant. We got seme state aid for it. We got federal aide, and we were able to do, solve the problem. We know we can't keep dumping waste into the ocean, but unfortunately it is just that district. Everybody pays a proportionate share on the use of it. Some of the houses, where they're multi-residents with several apartments in them. They pay per apartment and all that. I believe the usage is up around 60 or 70 units of cost. The school pays a higher cost than the individual homes. PETER BURR: I guess my question is, are we really left out here on our own? The service whether it's being property maintained, whether something is broken by a machine, that we have no control over. Is it literally up to these 43 people to try..for example Ray just gave me the financial, and I'll try to figure out what they said, but it looks to me is we are out of .~oney. It looks to-me as if we're going to have assessment beyond. We've already had $25.00 increase from the original assessment. I guess the question is to whom do we speak about this? Do we talk to ourselves? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: The Town Board is the Commissioners of that district. We're the ones that make sure there's enough money in the pot to pay the bill. PETER BURR: But if there's not Ray, said there's no way it's coming from him. I mean who tells us? Who gives us direction, and who is our represen- tative on this, school district? Nobody? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: What do you mean on the school district? PETER BURR: On the sewer district, I said school by mistake. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: The Town Board is the Commissioners. You're represented by Judge Edwards. PETER BURR: Ray is representing us. Ray I turn back to you JUSTICE EDWARDS: I am in your ball park even though I did raise your taxes $25.00 last year, because I could see these things coming. I'll be-more than glad, but I think you people in the district itself, like the ferry district, like the fire district, like the school district, should have your own little group to pass the information on to me. I'll be glad to get you those monthly reports, but who should I send them out to? You should have a group in your district to monitor these. PETER BURR: There was the day you and I had a little discussion, and I think it's all being loped over. There are 43 of us, and there is a way, I have the names and I have the addresses, you just gave them to me. JUSTICE EDWARDS: That's right. PETER BURR: There is a way that you can get something to all 43 of us. We're not talking 8,000 people. We're talking about a sewer district of 43 families, and I submit that for 20 plus grand a year, that it may be possible that you can take the iniative, Ray, with all due respect. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: We can send you with your tax bill the amount of money that came in and money.. PETER BURR: What's causing it? Ray says something broken. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: If someone broke something, they're responsible for fixing it. If it broke because of wear and tear, then the district is respo~!.b, le PETER BURR: I just want to say publicly, that we're happy that it was done, and we very much appreciate the fact that we are not the problem, but I think that we should berepresented just a bit better on this issue by someone that's closer to the problem. Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Any other? Sir? STOWE PHELPS: I noticed that the budget for the garbage district for last year and this year, there's an item of $70,000.00 for engineering studies, and an item this year for $80,000.00 I believe, and what are we getting for $150,000.00 in terms of engineering studies? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: That you would have to ask your commissioners. You have three commissioners on the island, who are responsible for that budget, but I could just tell you offhand. It's used for their planning. There was talk at AUGUST 9, 1989 9 one time of an incinerator, and i,t~s-~ttll;¢a backup;in there, a potential. I believe it was put on hold, but it's to do the engineering study to see which way is the best way for the district go should they ship over their garbage to Southold Town, should they go try to make a contract in Connecticut, many other alternatives, and that's what they're doing. STOWE PHELPS: My only comment is, that this is extraordinary large percentage of the entire budget. The entire budget is, I think, runs about last year, a quarter of a million dollars, and this year is up close to $270,000.00, of which $150,000.00 in the two year period is a substantial percentage, and I hope we would be able to get something commenced with'it. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: I'll ask Jim, if he'd like to comment, but again, this is the tremendous escalating'co,ts that are involved with landfills, with garbage; Years ago, if we spent a dollar a ton in our landfill in Southold Town, and this is not going back much more than 10 years, that we were lucky, and now we're spending..we went from a $100,000.00 budget to run the landfill, we're up probably a million, a million and a quarter. It will probably be higher this year, and we haven't even touched the real cost that's facing people, and these cost have to be addressed. STOWE PHELPS: That's what i.m afraid of, we're just making a study with that kind of money. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Jim, probably, could'answer, and I don't I~now if he wants to answer. Jim to you want to comment now, or talk to him later7 JIM HANCOCK: Engineering cost right now are..(Tape change.) SUPERVISOR MURPHY: and start to t.~ke an interest. Any other questions? JOHN CLAVIN: I had a question. First, I want to mention Walsh Park. I want to thank the Board for their support for Walsh Park today, and thank the entire Town government for their help in the last two years. I just would like to say that after two years of excruciating long process, you have come two years, and we still don't have the first house up. I think we make mistakes, and I think we could have used a lot more help from the Town in the way it was . i'm leading up to that we've got a lot of experience, and we would like to ask if the Town would appoint someone from Fishers Island to their Housing Committee. We think we could have learned a lot by being on that Housing Committee, and we think you could have helped us more, and we would have been able to help you with all the mistakes that made in the last two years. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: We have Judge Edwards, attends. He's a standing member of any committee, and if you would like him, or if you would like somebody else, let us know, and that!s easy to do. You're welcome to attend any of meeting. JOHN CLAVIN: I Kuow. ther. eis so many committees that he's on.I'm not sure that he can make the Housing Committee. That's the one that we're both . This' is only 12 houses. The affordable housing need on the island is much greater. The first project, we're going to be doing more things. We'd like to do them quicker. We'd like to do them better. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: And we would like to, also, and we'd like to help you as much as we can. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: If I may, Frank, I would like someone who has lived and gone through this project be a member of the committee. I think we're both right. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Anyone else? ROWLAND OSWALD: My name is Rowland Oswold. A few' years ago, you were on the Board here. You sent us some drills that would open up the drains on Fishers Island. You came up to my house and talked to me. As far as I know, the drills have never come over here. What's happened to them? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Are you talking about a back awl for Cleaning gutters. ROWLAND OSWALD: up in the wintertime. For cleaning out drains from Fishers Island. The get clogged AUGUST 9, 1989 SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Ray, do you want to comment? SUPERINTENDENT OF HIGHWAY JACOBS: I wasn't aware of it at that time, but I have recently .... ROWLAND OSWALD: I wrote a letter. SUPERINTENDENT OF HIGHWAYS JACOBS: Last week I checked..We don't have one in the Town of Southold, so I asked you if there was one anywhere, if not, we'll check around though, we just have one. ROWLAND OSWALD: We were told at the meeting at the schoolhouse a few years ago, that that would be sent over.. SUPERINTENDENT OF HIGHWAYS JACOBS: We did send a back awl over, I~ut we don't have a rooter-rooter. I~s what you're talking about~. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Ray will take care of it for you. Yes? NATALIE RAFFERTY: Natalie Rafferty, again. I just.wanted to address Ruth Oliva, who I think is doing a great job, and a very thankless job on that zone sign, but when you mention that the coverage, the environmental coverage class 1 coverage, would take care of the whole island, and how would it effect our zoning? The Town Hall deserves a great deal of zoning in that, well as you know as a committee member to asking what was, you know, that we should have and shouldn't have. There are parts of the hamlet density. There are parts of the AC section. There are parts of, almost every part of that do not.apply to Fishers Island, and one of the reasons is because we don't have the same land, we don't' have the same kind of mooring system, and density over here makes the cost go up for everybody on the island. You were just talking about the sewage district because in time there might have to be sewage district all over the middle of Fishers Island, so we have to know those things. So we do want to be very careful about the type of zoning that will allowed on the Island, or for the Island, because that really is for a more dense suburban type living, even the hamlet density. So I was wondering how we can work with you on that. I know ~e have sent,you prelimenaries, but really haven't gotton around to working any of this out, and you might want some imput, that everyone have to , so I'm just wondering how you're going to answer that. COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: You had mentioned, I think, of coming over and having a meeting with me, and let's go over each thing specifically, and I think that would be the most productive way of doing it. If we sat down on a one to one basis, instead of trying to do it by mail. Then we can get the maps out, and we can check the code, and we'll have everything right there, so after the summer why don't you set up something, we'll get together and go over it. NATALIE RAFFERTY: Okay, I'll get together with Ray Edwards, because he very kindly wrote a note to this group and said that he would be glad to assist us in getting together with you on this. COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Fine. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. If you have more people over here, maybe we could fly Ruth over to meet with you. Which ever would be more convenient. If you have a lot here, maybe ou~ Town Attorney and Ruth could come over with you. Yes? PEGGY CLAVIN: I'm Peggy Clavin. I wonder what kind of service is available, for possibl~y buiding ramps for the handicapped here on the Island? I don't know whether this is federal or it comes under the Town of Southold or not. I'm thinking of a very specific area, but there are several place where a ramp for instance for wheel chair people would be logical SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Going into a public access building? PEGGY CLAVIN: Well, I'm thinking of the Doctor's office for one, and the Catholic Church for another. Neither of which has a ramp for the handicapped, and the Post Office. I just don't know what the regulations are, and if there is any financial help. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: We can help on certain projects, but no', all of them. Unfortunately there is no federal money any more. We had revenue sharing that used to be used for that type of program, and that's all gone, but the Town definately can help through community development, or we could just budget where we're allowed to do it. Through this program that I mentioned about Bruce Blower before there will be some money coming back to the Town through these fines, that will be available for us to do work like t~at~ ::The,money has to ~ Z~to, aid the handi- capped and accessibility. PEGGY CLAV~ih': Do you I~e ~ :bu]~d~ ce,c~e~ SUPERVISOR ~Ri~,~ ~ ~ '~ ':~ Y" The ~u.i'~!di;a'~ ~sp, ec:~o~,r~ yes~ He can defini~te~y te~ you the size~f t%e ra~p, t~e: ~,c~r~e~ 'Ch:e wii~th~,~: L~'~:e, co~,s~ruction. We definitely can help you that way, yes. PEGGY CLAVIN: The specifications? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: We def~'~[te~:')Z could help you that way. PEGGY CLAVIN: The Building Department? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Yes, and what we would like is if you could give us a l~st and we could review the Hst with the attorneys, see what we're allowed to do, and then we'll see about the funding, and the Building Department can assist you in the actual planning. BRUCE BLOWER: We have to plan and do what's available ... SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Right. Through Suffolk County. BRUCE BLOWER: Assistance. Unfortunately, we don't have any funds. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: We know we're not going to get any fines over on Fishers Island, but the two people that have designated to do this program on fining people are working very we~J, a~d it's an excellent program. We're not going to get no where near enough money to do all the work that needs to be done, but it ~s a way to start, PEGGY CLAV[N: Would we be in Mr. Blower's jurisdiction? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Definitely. Anyone else? JOHN THATCHER:' John Thatcher, Fishers Island Conservancy. Frank, for two years now, we"'¢e been trying to arrange a STOP Day on Fishers Island, were some of our old paint cans, old pesticide cans could be thrown in certain receptacles. Those recepatcles sealed and taken by qualified personnel over to Southold. It fell through last year, and actually Peggy Clavin and two others are heading up a committee this year to try this again. Can we count on the Town of Southold to cooperate? We will need your help, particularly in dealing with the Department of Environmental Conservation. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: At the present time, we have an application going into the DEC for a transporter permit. We thought that we could get away with it. Jim McMahon has done the paper work. He was told by the people in Albany that we don't need this special permit. The people in Stony Brook, that we definitely do and cited word for word in the regulations saying that you do need this sl~ecial permit. I had asked Harold Berger to look into it. He said he would, and he would try to have the man in charge of the program, Bob Beckwith, come on this trip today, but something happened and he couldn't come just to answer your concerns on that. But the latest is, and we are applying for the permit to transport. It seems ironic that we have to get a permit to transport. It would be like from your house to the landfill. You could take your materials, if you wanted to go to New London, to Orient, to Cutchogue, you could do that, but we couldn't collect it here and Ray Jacobs could have one of his trucks take' the material over to our landfill where we could pack it properly, inventory it, make the manifest up and dispose of it properly. Unfortunately, we're Caught in a maze of paperwork. You will have this definitely in place for next year, and we will have several STOP Programs. We should be able to over on Fishers Island next year, but unfortunately, there's no way that this permit process will be ever done .in time to have one before the summer people leave Fishers Island. It's unfortunate but...we tried. JOHN THATCHER: In other words, you really want to do this, to help us. It would be a major, major help to us. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Southold Town was the first community in New York State to have a STOP Program year round. We were the first ones to have a license~l facility. We're very concerned about it. We know the people on Fishers Island are concerned, and we want to do this, because really this is the way to help 'clean up and make Clean garbage," if' there's such a things, but if you can remove the contaminarl.ts, we're further ahead. It's been proven in ash studies and all. If you take out this household contaminant,we're reducing the amount of contaminaBts AUGUST 9, 1989 in the ash from an incinerator, in the compost from a composting facility, or what- ever you're going to do with the material. So it is a program that this Town supports, as I said we were the first one to have this facility. We got two grants to help pay for it, and we would certainly like to have the same thing over on Fishers Island, and hopefully next year we can have it for you. We tried. We went to the DEC. They went to Albany. They tried to help us out. They under- stood the problem, but unfortunately the regulations are writtep so that '/e~ ~q~t transport this material from Fishers Island to Sou?hold ~tr.c;;ill without a special transporter perm!t. JOHN THATCHER: This I'm sure of, but aren't there private companies that could do this,~ who already have the permit? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Yes, but it would cost you a fortune to come to Island, and I think it would be far better if what we coilected ~r~d we had the permit where a Highway Department truck could come over and take this materiai. We would all be winners. Yes, ma'am? WOMAN IN THE AUDIENCE: Is there a committee in the Town that has jurisdiction over the sea coast? I know we have a harbor master on Fishers island, but we also have beaches, public beaches, but sometimes as far as troubles beiog caused by power boats, I mean coming in too close to the seashore were people are swimming, causing problems for swimmers. Is it the Coast Guard, that has juris- diction over that? The swimmers are not more than 20 feet off, and they're running into problems with that. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: I believe, Dan, this is the Police Department? It's very hard problem. COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: I think Riverhead has just tried to initiate some sort of speed limit and how far offshore, say some of these jet skis can be. Again, it's a problem of who going to inforce it and how many people you're going to have to have to enforce it. So let's see how their's works, and see what we can do. It is a problem even in Southold Town, too. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: We have an ordinance that states that you can not come within a certain area, and what is 100 feet off, or 200 feet? TOWN ATTORNEY SCHONDEBARE: Fifteen hundred. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: Fifteen hundred feet off shore with motorized vehicles and so on, you know, boats and things. ,Yes, we do. We ha'Ce it 'on the books, but I think it's a matter of enforcement. WOMAN IN THE AUDIENCE: What is the closeness here? COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: I think it's 100. Is it as great as 15007 TOWN ATTORNEY SHONDEBARE: It's 500... WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: With boats going in and out, could it be posted? COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: Sure it could be posted, according to Town Code such and such, you know, what ever you want to prevent. Jake, could you get some signs for that in the troubled areas? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: That might help. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: Could you let us know what the troubled areas are, and let our Superintendent of Highways. Just your public beaches? WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: If you could just post the places Where the boats speed. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: After the meeting we'll get together with you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Any other questions? CHARLES STEPANEK: Ray Jacobs will do extensive work on sidewalks in and sidewalks in Industrial Parks. It's a safety hazard SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Yes? WOMAN IN AUDI NCE: Speaking of sidewalks, the clearing is You couldn't even puSl~awheelchair along some of them. So before I see handicapped ramps go in, I think some of the sidewalks are disgrace, especially along the center up to the public library. There's no curb. There's nothing there, and the traffic is great and I think something should be done. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Ray will take a look and see what we can do. He'd be happy to. Any other questions? GEORGE ESSER: This is a short personnal appeal. We're missing ou~ family dog. He's been missing about a day now, and the family is quite concerned. He's red, has a white chest. He's name is Morgan. We are the Esser family, if you see him wandering around, just let us know,or you can inform the troopers, they know who we are. Thanks. He's a golden retriever, with a white chest. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. With ail these people here, someone should be ~ble to find him. Anyone else? There has to be some more concerns. BRA~) BURNHAM: Getting bacP, 'to garbage. There was a study that the ConserYancy made. There was $600,000.00 bill fo~~ the transfer station and equipment for operating costs. Could we logically expect that the transfer station and the equipment wou~d be higher this $9,000,000.00? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: I'm not sure if the Town is going to build it, and ~ think we should build it. We would have to... We certainly would welcome the engineering study that was done. We would have to review it and put it out to' bid. We're not sure if $600,000.00 is going to enough or too much. We would want to review the plans with our own people, and to see if it's large enough, what ever. l'm sure it is. I'm sure it's ample. It might be too large, maybe it might not be. But we would have to do it, and then we would have to go out to bid on it, if that's how the Board wanted to go. BRAD BURNHAM: Well, my main concern is that bids that you are considering.__ SUPERVISOR MURPHY: A bond could be floated just for that, also. It would not have to be part of the other package. BRAD BURNHAM: I don't care if it's floated separately. I just care that everybody in Southold is paying for it, not just Fishers.. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: That's exactly so. That should be. I feel that should be. BRAD BURNHAM: Everybody agree? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: l'm sure you'll find the entire Town Board in agreement on that. I think this definately is what we call a whole Town charge. Yes, anyone else. There has to be more. Anyone else? Town Board members, any other comments? COUNCILMAN PENNY: I'd like to just add one thing. There was a question ~arlier about the cost of the bonds, and the $8,000,000.00 bond for the operating costs of the composting facility was $27.00 per thousand. The $9,000,000.00 bond, which it would have to go up to that to include Fishers Island, was $30.00 per thousand. I just wanted to make a clarification on that, because there is a difference between the two. Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Yes, Mrs. Rafferty? NATALIE RAFFERTY: I was just wondering about this composting. Have you read any facts? I have an article that says something about composting not being too successful. What do you do if you try to put in a composting system and you can't make any money out of the compost you make? Either it's not satisfactory for gardens, or perhaps dangerous or whatever. Have you thought of all these problems? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Our cost is based on no revenue coming, so any revenue that you did get will lower our cost, but rather that anticipate a revenue that might be questionable, definitely.. To give you an idea, Ray Edwards, Jean Cochran, Ruth Oliva and myself went with two consultants over to Italy and Germany. We saw two of the plants in Italy of the firm that we are negotiating the contract with. It worked very well in there. These plants were in residential neighborhoods. They worked well. They made a product that was certainly appealing. That was salable , and that is a far better..if you could see the end result compared to what went into the building, you wouldn't believe if.. To have a pile of raw dirty garbage and then a few days later coming out with this beautiful looking black earth. This would make a be;lever of you. We did go. We too~< a trip at taxpayers' AUGUST 9, I989 expense, and it was probably the best investment that the Southold Town Board has made, was going over to look at these three plants. In fact, Ray Edwards went on several other...he went to England to see several other plants where they are doing the same thing, and I think we all came away with the feeling that very confidently that, yes, this works, and I believe Ruth, Jean, you'd want to comment. COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Yes. We went not only to the one in Italy. We just visted anyother in Germany, and of course, as you know Duesberg was completely bombed out, so all of the construction there is relatively new, and the plant we visited was also situated right next to a secondary treatment plant..a sewer plant, and competeiy surrounded by little garden apartments, and then they had the composting plant next to it. There wasn't a smell to behJadmainly because the compost could also be used as an air filter, and so they used that to filter out the odors from the sewage plant, and then they the gentleman that ran it gave the compost to all the neighbors, and they had the most gorgeous flower and vegetable garden you would ever want to see. Also, in Germany they used some of this compost in these sound barriers that you see over on the mainland there, and it's like a pyramid. They have the nice plants coming out, so that's another way of doing it, and this gentleman that we saw in Germany was so innovative, he took paper, just shredded it up and ran it through and let it sort out in the back there, and he used that to sell kitty litter, horse bedding, and for the cleaning up of oil spills. So there are innumerable possibilities that you can do with this if you just want to put your mind to it, and ! think that everybody's concern is about the odor, and there simply is not an odor. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Jean, do you want to comment further? COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: Yes. You're certainly aware I've supported the composting aspect since the beginning, and have worked in this direction for the last three and a half, four years. In relation to product use after the compost is made, in Italy the compost is shipped to southern Italy, and it is used on food chain crops, vineyards. In Minnesota, also, they've been testing, I guess this year will give them their second year of their equivalent of of making their own testing, but they felt that within a two year period they would be able to use the product on food chain crops also. New York State DEC has told us that in beginning until there is testing and proven facts, that the compost would be used on non-food chain items. My two concerns since the very beginning have been the health aspect, and the doing something with the by-product. In our visits, in our trips absolutely no odors Whatsoever. I saw no rodents, no health problems whatsoever in these facilities, because that has been one of the current concerns of the neighboring people too, where it's going to be sited. I have 100% confidence that the product can be marketed. There are many places that just in talking with one another we can see were there is ~ market, and of course the firm will be responsible for developing markets. Any other part of your question, maybe I can..? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: The Town also shares..will share in 75% of the revenue of the sale of this material. COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: And, also, I think in this small one we v]s~iled, plant in a small town we were in, three small towns had gotten together in a little town in northern Italy, and they had had this plant on line for three years. They haven't had one day on down time in three years that it has been in operation. Now, believe me their garbage looks just like our garbage. It's no different. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: It's garbage. Anyone have a question to Jean? COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: Or any of us? WOMAN FROM AUDIENCE: I just was interested in the product you say has no smell or no problems, but what about the storage area were the garbage gets deposited? I mean, it comes in raw and yuccy. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: It comes in the regular black plastic bags, just like our garbage and the technology, the bags are broken and, you know, goes through the whole routine. No. WOMAN FROM AUDIENCE: Nothing from the other end either? COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: No. No. You walk in and well, garbage is garbage, but you don't have that horrible smell like garbage has been sitting in the sun for three days. No. We would walk through and I've become very fond of garbage. I really have. The whole thing has become such a learning experience and it's amazing some of the technology and the ways we going to have to begin to accepil, to deal with our garbage problem. In fact I was reading an article coming over, in relation to recycling in Rhode Island, and of course, Japan has always been seen as the forebear in recycling, but Rhode Island, they hopefully, their recycling almost more than anyone else. They are a small state. They're controlled. That's why I see such a great opportunity for Fishers Island, because you have controlled boundaries in recycling. But they feel that when they get to 85% of their people participating in recycling, of which they are reaching that goal, they are going to save between one and two million dollars a year in landfill costs. So, recycling is going to play a very important role in this whole concept. COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: And also, just going back to the whole idea of the whole.country, we have to just kind of change our way of thinking and start pressuring the people in Washington about packaging laws. I wa~ speaking to a gentleman in Southold, and he was stationed in Hong Kong a few years ago. Now you know, we always have cans for this and cans for that, or plastic for this and plastic for that, and they use just glass, even to buy a little can of tomato sauce or what have you, and then that was sent back and recycled two or three times before Jt had to be disposed of. So we just have to start learning as a society to insist that we do this, because otherwise we're going to bury ourselves in garbage either one way or another. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: No. No. You live on top of it. They build g6If courses on it. They do. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: It's there forever. Ray, do you want to tell about your experiences on the trip? JUSTICE EDWARDS: Well, it was a very educational trip, and I will say that ~ am not against composting. The only thing I do not like about composting is the volume reduction, which is very, very important on how much you put in and how much you get out, and this is why I'm questioning it, and questioning the fact that a little town of Southold, 20,000 people, is going into a, at least a $9,000,000.00, probably closer to $12,000,000.00 program, and why the Town of Southold should put their neck on the limb for this amount of money. I think if we can get some State's funds to back us up, or bail us out if we need some, it's fine. I'd appreciate it. I did enjoy the trip. As Frank said [ went on, I continued on to London and up into Wales. I saw another plant up there, which was very nice. It was small. It was on an island like Fishers, and they had this thing in operation for four or five years, but they were very lucky, right in their backyard to have an old granite quarry mine where the could put the residue, which is a problem that we have not located in Southold, what we're going to do with what's left over. This has not been addressed, and that's it. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, Ray. Just to give you an idea, there are two wholesale nurseries in Southold Town, that are presently using compost, sewage compost, which in comparison is nowhere near as good as municipal solid waste. If you could imagine. And they use it in there potting media. One outfit puts out about 500,000 containers of perennials, and another nursery puts about 5,000,000 containers of shrubs, that they ship all over. Tremendous potential for using this type of material, and what makes it more attactive in a town like Southold, we are in an area, we want to keep agriculture healthy. We want to keep our tourists and fishing industry healthy. We're not looking for a big manufacturing plant to come in, and we can't afford that type of density. Southold existed with agriculture for 350 years and this is what we want to try to keep healthy and alive. Any other? George? COUNCILMA?; PENhJY: Yes, I have to agree with Ray Edwards. He and I have been comparing right along, and our concern with composting is not so much the composting itself, because everyone knows that composting works. My concern is basic economics, and can a town of our size afford a plan of $9,000,000.00 on top of the other costs that are going to have to be added to make this a com- plete package? Composting is $9,000,000.00. We'll be addr. essing 42% of the waste stream. The other 50% of the waste stream, plus the closure costs of the landfill, plus the cost of the additional liner for the landfill, plus the cost of a recycling venture by the Town have not been addressed, and I can see upwards of $20,000,000.00 to $25,000,000.00 before we're through, so when you hear $27,00 to $30.00 on the composting plant, the truer figures when this all complete will probably be up in the mid to high 40's. But these costs have not been addressed yet by the Town, and I told the Town Board that I will not vote for or against a proposal at this time, until all of the costs have been developed, and I know that we have the facilities, we have the vehicles to do it, we have the guidelines from the DEC, and anybody., and I could do it, I just feel that it's my particular duty at this time to venture with my own estimates. I don't want to be accused of using scare tactics, but I wish that the Town Board would sit down and address all of these costs so that we can present a' true and complete AUGUST 9, 1989 picture to the voters of Southold Town by November, and then I will be voting for the referendum, because the referendum sends this to the people. This is the only area that I will be voting in favor of. I was in favor of the referendum. I contacted the Town Attorneys, who got the referendum resolution for the Town, and I believe on the 29th of August, this is going to pass. So there will be a referendum on Election Day, and I would hope that by Election Day, you the voters of Southold Town have a true picture of the complete economic costs of where we are going, and maybe at that point you will agree as I do, that we are too little a town, and we should be working in conjunctions with other towns, dropping the cost of the entire project and the risks involved, because once the compost does not sell, if it does not sell, and when it does not sell, then somebody is going to have a major problem, and I feel that if, in fact we do have a saleable product, rather than fighting the other east end towns, which may be considerincj composting, also, fighting for the same markets that they are and driving down the potential costs of the sale of the compost, that if the four east end towns got together and worked together, and lobbyed together, and produced a product together, I think we would have a far better chance of changing regulations, and possibly building a better market for the product. Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, George. SPEEDY METT]_ER: George, I appreciate what you just said. You started at the very end to say what you thought was a better solution. Is there something that would cost less, that could be part of the issue, that would make more sense? I understand you're concerned about the cost, but I'm not quite sure what's out there that might make more sense for a final solution, if there is such a thing. COUNCILMAN PENNY: A muti-town approach. It could be composting. It could be incineration. It could be a resource recovery plant, such as was endorsed by the DEC of Brookhaven, and none of the east end towns choose to go along .with it. I know that, I believe Riverhead, Joe Janowski, the supervisor there, was very much in favor of it, but he couldn't get his town board to back it at this point.~ I feel 'that once the east end towns get the cost, as we have of handling their own individual problems in their own individual towns, that then they will looking .toward a way of reducing their costs, and probably then, they'll start talking about working together. But right now, Southampton is just getting some figures together on line right now. They're just getting their reports in and we're heading slightly behind, so I think you're going to see a drive in the next few months, maybe within the next-six months, for the east end towns to pool together. It has been suggested once in Southampton already that they consider composting, and if they consider doing it over in Westhampton in conjunction with other towns, because they're afraid of a lot of the risks that I am. So I think you're going to see this developing more and-more. Everybody is taking a very. . well, let's go on our own, and we can solve our own problems, but when they look at the tax dollars that they're addressing, and the potential risks that are involved,-I think you're going to see a serious turnaround in the approach that the east end towns are taking. BRAD BURNHAM: Since Jean is with the same party, we don't have a political problem. Jean, would you tell us why you've taken the position you've taken? COUNCILWOMAN'COCHRAN: Going back to the very beginning of when we realized that we were going to have to do something in relation to solving our solid waste problems, the Town Board began at that time to investigate, and we did look at different technologies. We all felt, and I stated this last year, and I'm speaking for myself, that environmentally and costwise composting was the best direction to go, and of course, it will be done in conjunction with recycling. There's a lot of little outline facts and figures that helped me make these kind of decisions. I know like the DEC has told us that they do not expect to see the regulations changed in relation to composting for the next fifteen years. Down in Washington -you've already got political people presenting bills for tighting up on the regula- tions in relation to ash. Ash was always one of our conceros. This most recent bill is presented in relation to monafills, which would be a much more strigent disposal area than even for your hazardous waste in today's world. Already there are companies that are having to stockpile ash. So there's many..you can't just look at today's picture. You've also got to look at the future. Part of my feeling was Southold Town should control it's own destiny, and I mean that very sincerely, because I see so many hidden, not just costs that we can pull together today, and some we can't pull together today, because the lack of answers from the DEC, but down in the road in the future there are going to be, you think $9,000,000.00 is bad, there are going to be so many hidden costs in relation to the disposal of ash if you go in the direction of incineration. Just cost involve- ment. Alright, composting came into being back in the 60's. It was not successful, because number one, there was no mandate to make something happen to get rid of your garbage. Number two, the people that were environmentalists at AUGUST 9, 1989 17¸ that time, and wanted to,use this:aS~a;;:so,[~,~ion,:tbe¥ did not have enough money to support them as far a's financiaI ~'a~n~ S0; You Can say composting was not successful. It wasn't in the 60's. It was big flop, but because of the pressures and more and more technology..alright, most of our technology does come from Europe. We have had some cricitism of the fact that we are spending our money in Italy. Hey, Italy comes to the United States to buy an airplane because that's where you get the best plane. We have gone to Italy and where we felt that we're going to get the best technology to insure the residents of Southold Town, as secure as humanly possible in this whole venture. That's why we've gone to an Italian plant. The technology, I just can't tell people strong enough, it works. I'm sorry. It's works. And I still think it's the best solution environmentally, financially, less problems down the road than you're going to have with incineration and some of your other technologies. I hope I've answered your question. Do you have a more pointed question? It was a Board question. JOHN ~T~.HATCHER: Jean, I could ask one question, You mentioned just when you started to speak that you had studied other alternatives to composting~ and where persuaded by composting. [s there a comparision study put out by the Town of Southold, that compares composting with incineration and other alternatives, on cost basis, on an environmental basis, and disposal basis? COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: John, not in any depth, because I think the Town Board... : SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Jean, we did one. H2M. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: Yes, they did, but not in real depth, depth, Frank, as much as John is asking for. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: This was 1986. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: Because we made our decision early. I mean Southold. Your other five east end towns were sitting there doing absolutely nothing. They are now just to the point of beginning to do something. We felt, in Southold Town, that it was imperitive to begin our planning back here. Which we did. Okay. We didn't wait to see what the other towns where going to do because they weren't doing anything, John. You couldn't get any lines of communication four years ago. I don't care who says what, but you just couldn't. Southampton has finally just reaching the point where they're possibly going in the direction of composting. But, you know, they're three years behind what Southold has done. JOHN THATCHER: We'd support it, even at this late date though, a comparision study. This appears to me as just.. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: See, John, I have such difficulty in that, because the decision was made three years ago, atleast, to go in this particular direction. If the referendum goes down, or if you want to go into another study, you know the time frame with studies. We're never going to reach...be anywhere near a 1990 deadline. Alright, my concern with the deadline is the DEC has the right to impose fines on us that could be great, but I also have a concern that...my train of thought just went right out the window., like I said that's why 1 have no trouble with saying that. COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Also, just the consulting fees. We've spent a half million dollars on consulting fees. The other east end towns, we've had discussions with them, and they haven't been to first base of what we've been. To get together with these towns to start the whole process all over again, you're going to shoot maybe another half a million to million dollars just on consulting fees. I think it's absolutely throwing money out the window, when we know what we have now. They, also, know, all these companies know, they have the east end towns by the throat. They could come in and ask almost any price they want, and they're _going to get it because they know in 1990 the gate goes accross that landfill. (Tape change.) COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: If the composting plant, say, did not work, or if we have nothing in place by 1990, one of our alternate plans, and I don't think this is really, I don't know Frank, maybe you can answer this better, if we have a final alternate plan, but what I see is happening is trucking gabage out of Southold as our alternate plan. I mean, what other plan do we have? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: That's all we have. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: So you would have as your front plan is your com- posting, your secondary plan is trucking garbage out. I don't even want to begin to think about the cost involved in this. AUGUST 9, 1989 JOHN THATCHER: Aren't we going to have cost anyway, with the least bit percent of the minicpal stock solid waste that is going inot that compost stream, that's going to be rejected, Jean, because it can not be composted? There's part of disposal of that...that has to be considered. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: John, you can't burn glass, and you can't compost glass. You can't burn metal, and you can't compose metal. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: And big timbers. JOHN THATCHER: How do you dispose of it? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: You can dispose of it through proper recycling. Just let me make a couple of comments on adding to what was said here, because we are getting late. The ideal thing about a composting system is that they are very modular. They can be adjusted from 50,to 75 , to 100, to 150 tons. 200 tons is about the maximum size that you would ever want, which makes it ideal for the east end, because you're not trucking garbage all over the place. You're not cluttering the roads. Do you want to see a mess? Drive on the south shore on Montauk Highway in the summertime, and see how you would like to be involved in trucking garbage all over the place. Norman Nosenchuck, the number three man in the DEC in charge of solid waste, a fine gentleman, supports this. He has the two words that he uses, the cliche so to speak, the NIBY syndrome, not in my backyard, and the MYTIM, not in my term of office. That's how he does it. We have a history in Suffolk County of fail, joint efforts of towns. We had a multi-town garbage district that was set up several years ago with the Town of Babylon, Islip, Huntington, and Smithtown. They spent over $8,000,000.00 of taxpayers' money and there wasn't even a shovel put in the ground, and any dirt turned over for a system. We have our Southwest Sewer District. We have many of these failed joint efforts and ! don't think we should be involved. I agree with Jean, that we should solve our own problems. The good thing about these, are they are modular. You could base them to our needs. We do anticipate that we will be able to take in all of Shelter Island's garbage, be paid for it, because of the capacity, and if we do enough recycling on all towns, and which is very important that they have to do it, we would probably be able to take in Riverhead. -- So we will have a small multi-town thing that we'll control and we'll generate the income from. I hope that explains that enough. I think you've heard all of the feelings of the Town Board. This will be on the ballot. We expect it to be on the ballot on election day, and the question will be, do you approve the expenditure of..or the sale of up to $9,000,000.00 in bonds? That's what will be on the ballot. Any other questions? John? JOHN CLAVIN: I'd just like to change the subject for a minute. On behalf of the year-round people I'd like to ask the Board if they would look at something. Out of a quarter of a million recreation budget, you have a lot of employees, particularly in the beaches and the parks and so forth. We don't have any employees on our island that the Town sent here. But we do have two tennis courts and two outdoor basketball courts, that were built by the Town on Fishers Island, that are terrible disrepair. I spoke to Ken Reeves, and he said that every year he puts it in the budget, but every year they take it out. I'm not sure who they are, but I wonder.. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: They are right here. JOHN .CLAVIN: I lust wanted you to know the year round population there are only four families that belong to either of the clubs on the island. That's the only recreation facility besides the island people's ball park down there, which I know you're going to give us some benches up. I hope it will happen this year, -COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: They're here. JUSTICE EDWARDS: We haven't put them up yet. JOHN CLAVIN: ; But the tennis court and basketball court are really in terrible shape. The fence is falling down. The grass is growing up in the cracks. SUPERVISOR .VIURPHY: Do you want us to put them up, Ray? COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: John, I wish I had a quarter of a million do lars in the Parks budget, as Parks Chairman. No, we don't have that kind of money, believe me, and I don't know. . hopefully it wasn't cut from the budget, Frank.' SUPERVISOR MURPHY: What? COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAI'!: Tennis courts being repaired. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: It's not in this year's budget. COUNCILWOMAN COCHRAN: No. That being one of my committees, I kind of __it quite it strongly, and of course you have Joe Marino from the New York State Division of Youth sitting next to you that's been kind of on our neck lately, that we haven't been serving youth as much as we should in relation to recreation. So we're meeting with him again shortly, but we have funds in the park and play- ground account that comes as a result of, as you know today we passed a resolution, when subdivisions are divided in lieu of park and playground they can give funds to the Town, so we do have one area that can only be spent on parks and play- grounds. So, John, please see that we get the information as to the repairs that are needed here, and I'm sure it can be worked out. The moneys there. JOHN CLAVIN: Thank you. SUPER~VISOR MURPHY: And I think if somebody asked Ray Jacobs he would probably install them. He would have to be asked to put the benches up~ JOHN CLAVIN: One f:inal thing, I know you're getting close to adjournment. That as a concerned person on this island, an environmentalist, ~ want to thank this entire Board. You've shown this afternoon that you care about Fishers Island, and I personally want to thank every single one of you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. It was great being over here. JUSTICE EDWARDS: I think it's going to be a little here, but we have a beautiful gentleman in the front, if we can keep him awake long enough to lead us in,God Bless America. Please Mr. Phelps. God Bless America led by Stowe Phelps. Moved by Councilwoman Oliva, seconded by Councilman Penny, it was RESOLVED that the Town Board meeting be and hereby is adjourned at 2:35 P.M. Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilwoman Oliva, Councilman Penny, Councilwoman ~-ochran, Justice Edwards, Supervisor Murphy. This resolution was declared duly ADOPTED.