HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-09/03/2020 Hearing Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK: STATE OF NEW YORK
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TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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Zoom Webinar Video Conferencing
Southold, New York
September 3, 2020
10:11 A.M.
Board Members Present:
LESLIE KANES WEISMAN - Chairperson/Member
PATRICIA ACAMPORA—Member
ERIC DANTES—Member
ROBERT LEHNERT—Member
NICHOLAS PLANAMENTO—Member
KIM FUENTES—Board Assistant
WILLIAM DUFFY—Town Attorney
ELIZABETH SAKARELLOS—Office Assistant ALAN BELNIAK—VHB CONSULTANT
DONNA WESTERMANN —Office Assistant
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
INDEX OF HEARINGS
Hearing Pie
North Fork One, LLC Geoffrey M. Prisco#7399 3-8
5645 Aldrich Lane, LLC#7412SE 8- 12
Timothy Frost#7413 12 -21
Eric Baiz#7414 21-23
Susan Ambrosio#7415 24-29
Richard R.Vanderbeek,Jr., Paul B.Vanderbeek, et al#7416 29-31
Michael Kreger#7420 31-42
Barbara J. Cohen#7419 42 -51
David and Jennifer Collins#7422 51-54
Gail Barlow and Charles Squire#7417 54-65
Gail Barlow and Charles Squire#7418 54-65
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
HEARING#7399—NORTH FORK ONE, LLC; GEOFFREY K PRISCO
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next item on the agenda is item number one that's North Fork
One, LLC Geoffrey Prisco # 7399. This is a request for a variance from Article III Section 280-15
and the Building Inspector's January 14, 2020 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for
a permit to construct an accessory garage at 1) located in other than the code required rear yard
located at 290 Windward Rd. in Orient. Is there someone here to represent this application?
BOARD SECRETARY : Yes there is a Mr. Prisco who I will promote to panelist so he can talk.
GEOFFREY PRISCO : Good morning.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay so we have a proposed just so you're aware we've all visited the
property and done a site inspection,we know the,neighborhood,we've driven around.This is an
accessory garage in a front yard where the code requires a rear yard location.There's also a pool
but that is not part of this application, it's my understanding that it's not on the Notice of
Disapproval. So what would you like us to know about this application?
GEOFFREY PRISCO :Just in brief, because it's a corner lot as you know I can designate which yard
is my rear yard since I have two front yards. Given the shape and the locations of wells and septic
of my neighbors the backyard isgoing to be on the north side and again because of well locations,
septic locations and things like that I cannot fit a pool and a garage in my rear yard. So I've opted
to try and move the garage to the front yard. Obviously a pool would not be suitable for the front
yard.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let's see if anyone has questions.That's a very odd shaped parcel. We
should point out that one frontage is along Main Rd.
GEOFFREY PRISCO : Yes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : and that's where you are proposing to locate the garage but access is
not off of Main Rd. it's off of this sort of private right of way really which is Wiridward.
GEOFFREY PRISCO :Yes. I designated the Main-Rd. I want my house to front on to Main Rd. I think
that's a friendlier gesture and also given solar orientation for solar passive and active solar I'd like
the house oriented in an east/west so that put the front yard on Main Rd.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, is there anyone else here for this application? I don't know, we
did receive I'm not sure you know this Geoffrey so I want to tell you, we received a letter from a
neighbor who was objecting to the proposed location for the accessory garage because they
would prefer it in the southeast corner across from farmland and the empty lot and not in front
of their house.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
GEOFFREY-PRISCO : Yea she and I actually have traded a few emails and she's actu'aIly-softened
on her position. She hopes that I keep plantings on the Main Rd. side and things like that. She
was misreading the site a little bit. I'm not able to move the garage you know to the east side
because of septic locations.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, alright let's see if the Board has any questions.
BOARD SECRETARY : I do see somebody here that might be, might want to speak. The name is
Lynn, I believe she had sent in a letter, should I ask if she wants to speak?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes, let's see what they
BOARD SECRETARY : Okay I sent her a chat. So what I'm going to do is click her name and click
allow to talk and see if she wants to speak on this matter.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea there's someone here that says I'm here at the meeting. I didn't
send a letter. So it's somebody other than the one whom we received a letter.
BOARD SECRETARY : Let me see if she's here for this matter.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It seems so and I want to make sure she gets to speak if she wants to.
Maybe she just wants to listen I don't know.
BOARD SECRETARY : Lynn can you hear us?
ALAN BELNIAK : She can definitely hear us, it's just a matter of she can either use the Q&A to
indicate which item she's here to speak on or Lynn if you can also hear us you can if you're here
to speak
BOARD SECRETARY : Yea she's here in the meeting, I didn't send a letter.
ALAN BELNIAK : Lynn you can raise your hand if you want to speak on this matter and keep your
hand down if you want to speak on a different matter. You used a raised hand function.
BOARD SECRETARY : Okay so Lynn did you raise your hand?
ALAN BELNIAK : Yep she just did you can see it.
BOARD SECRETARY : Okay so I'm going to move her to the panelists.
BOARD MEMBER DANTES : She has to unmute herself.
ALAN BELNIAK : She should get a command to unmute herself when she's brought across as a
panelist.
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Regular Meeting September 3;2020
BOARD SECRETARY : Lynn can you uhmute yourself, we have you
ALAN BELNIAK : There she goes, she's unmuted now.
BOARD SECRETARY : Lynn did you want to speak on this matter?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Lynn can hear us? She's unmuted so I don't know
BOARD SECRETARY : There she is.
ALAN BELNIAK : Let's give this another second and if it doesn't work out from an audio
perspective Lynn can also just use the Q&A box to share her comments, but we'll give Lynn
another moment to see if we can get this squared away. So Lynn on our side it shows that,you
are unmuted as it doesn't show like a little red slash through the microphone so it might just be
an audio configuration on your end. If you want assistance on how to choose a correct
microphone on your computer on the lower left screen of your Zoom window you see the mute
icon, right next to that is a little up arrow and if you click that up arrow it should give you a couple
of choices and what to use for a microphone on your computer. For example you might have a
built in pc mic or a headset mic or something. Just try selecting a different microphone and see
if that works. We're still not hearing you Lynn so what we can do is either use the Q&A box or if
the Board wants to continue discussing to give Lynn a chance to try to configure her mic those
are some options.
MEMBER DANTES : I honestly don't have any questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay well while we're waiting let's see if anybody else does, Pat do
you have any questions?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Nick?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Always, Mr. Prisco I noticed on the Suffolk County Tax Map it would
appear to be land owned by the Malice's from the farms to the west that also runs across the
northern part of your lot, I didn't see if on the survey but what is that? Is that a right of way or is
that actually like a flag which would create a third road frontage in a sense cause it's a driveway?
GEOFFREY PRISCO : Are you referring to the easement on my west side?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : No on the north side. You have a neighbor that's vacant, Frank Stiller
according to the survey between your lot and the Stiller lot on the Suffolk County Tax Map is a
some sort of a flag that accesses the Malice property like a farm road or something. I mean I was
just curious to know what that is or if it exists.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
GEOFFREY PRISCO : Sorry I don't see what you're talking about but there are two sites between
them.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Do you have the Suffolk County Tax Map in front of you?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The tax map doesn't show Windward Way but it shows a small path
(inaudible)
GEOFFREY PRISCO : Okay I see what you're referring to. Quite frankly I don't know what that is
or how it affects my site. I mean I know I have an easement on my west end but nothing every
came up with the surveys or the surveyor on that until right now.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What's before us is a front yard location for the garage and whether
he's got two front yards or three front yards it's in a front yard. Unless there's specific questions
related to that let's see now Kim has put the survey up here but Kim bring that down please,
lower it so we can see the opposite way. I want to see the northern edge.
MEMBER DANTES : It's not on there.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There's nothing on there. It just shows a fence. It shows a property
line.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : My point is though, the garage is being requested to be placed in the
front yard and it's a blank slate so why can't the applicant either attach the garage or place it in
a conforming location?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well what would be a conforming location? He already said that the
conforming location it has septic and so on and if he's using as his rear yard where he's proposing
a swimming pool he's addressed the basically the fact that he would prefer to have a garage in
the front yard and a pool in the architectural rear yard instead of a front yard.
MEMBER DANTES : Right but what would be a rear yard cause he's got the right of way, he's got
Windward Way, he's (inaudible) so wouldn't that be three front yard which is just there anyway?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :When he goes to do this pool he's going to have to deal with that with
the Building Department as to whether or not that's a conforming location. It's shown here but
when I inquired it's not on the Notice of Disapproval because at this point they're not considering
it a part of the application.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Well I still see that there are options for the garage in my opinion as
far as placement. The septic is shown between the garage and the house along Windward Way
so there's any number of places that you could place it in a rear yard or attach the garage.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
GEOFFREY PRISCO : Well attaching it to the house on either side I'm up against the requirements
for a front yard, side yard and things like that so I don't have any way to make the main house
wider. So I don't know how you can contort the design to get an attached garage and I'd rather
not sacrifice the design of the house.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric do you have any questions?
MEMBER DANTES : No and it looks like if you put an accessory garage in the back then you lose
your well.
GEOFFREY PRISCO : I lose my well or the pool.
MEMBER DANTES : So you'd need a variance for the pool.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Rob do you have any questions?
MEMBER LEHNERT : No I don't.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do we have Lynn available now do we know? Kim I think you can take
the
ALAN BELNIAK : Lynn has commented in chat that she said that she already connected with the
applicant and doesn't need to speak.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh alright so she's
ALAN BELNIAK : It's probably best to remove her as a panelist cause she doesn't want to speak.
Kim you're muted.
BOARD SECRETARY : Yes, I'm going to move Lynn as an.attendee. Alright so was there a vote
coming at all?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes, so hearing no further questions or comments I'm going to make
a motion to close this hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER DANTES : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Seconded by Member Dantes. Kim would you call the roll please.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora how do you vote?
MEMBER ACAMPORA :Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora votes aye. Member Dantes how do you vote?
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
MEMBER DANTES :Aye:
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Dantes votes aye. Member Lehnert how do you vote?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Lehnert votes aye. Member Planamento how do you vote?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Planamento votes aye. Chairperson Weisman how do you vote?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Chairperson Weisman votes aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Motion carries unanimously. Thank you, we'll have a decision in two
weeks at our next meeting.
HEARING#74125E—5645 ALDRICH LANE, LLC
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for 5645 Aldrich Lane, LLC
#7412SE. This is a request for a Special Exception pursuant to Town Code Article III Section 280-
136(9). The applicant is requesting permission to construct a farm labor camp to accommodate
up to ten (10)seasonal workers in an existing storage building currently situated upon agricultural
property located at 5645 Aldrich Lane in Mattituck. I think Mike is here.
BOARD SECRETARY: I think Mike is here and I'm going to move him to the panelist list. Okay Mike
I'm asking him to unmute. Hello Mike Kimack.
MIKE KIMACK : Good morning everyone how are you?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Good morning we're good thank-you. So this is a Special Exception
request for a farm labor camp that also needs site plan approval from the Planning Board and we
weren't able to get into the building at least I wasn't. It was kind of closed and set way back but
I've certainly been out there and taken a look at the surrounding property,the AG property itself.
You can see the metal building setback quite far from Aldrich and we all have the floor plans. So
what would you like us to know about this application Mike? You do know we have received
comments from the Planning Board that support the application.
MIKE KIMACK: I didn't, I know that I've got a Planning meeting on the 14th primarily so that would
be good news. Basically it's an existing building that's a fairly large structure as you can see from
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
the plans and that building has been up since ab86f2005. The area that has the buildings and all
of these other structures on it are part of a four or five acre piece that was reserved for that type
of construction from a larger 39 acre piece under development rights back probably oh God some
years before and (inaudible) downloaded that information and he does run an agricultural
activity on the other reserved property within that. He has difficulty obviously with maintaining
living quarters during the growing season for his employees-The building seems to be perfectly
well suited on the second floor. It had been originally designated storage. As you can see from
Mark Schwartz's design
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Kim can you let me interrupt you for a second Mike, Kim can you open
up the second floor plan.
BOARD SECRETARY : I'm just seeing if I can reduce this in size in this okay here we go.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, done good.
MIKE KIMACK :That's essentially it's roughly 20 x 80. It's a very small portion, it's a "second floor
that has always been there as storage primarily. It had received Health Department approval for
the entire building back in 2005. There is an active onsite standard septic system for the entire
downstairs and a portion of the upstairs but that was designated storage under the current code
and we want to be able to convert that obviously to seasonal living quarters for up to ten (10)
farm workers. You can,see the layout requirements of Health Department is that there would be
at least fifty square feet per each worker in the sleeping quarters which there are. That area the
lower side of the drawing and then there is a bathroom and a closet and a nice eating area.Their
work schedule is for the most part they're going to be using working and using during the day the
septic system for the downstairs and at night time they're going to be coming up and pretty much
sleeping. It's roughly a seven to eight month cycle'roughly from beginning to middle of March to
the beginning of October is the work cycle that he's got and he'd like to be able to provide good
accommodations for his workers who apparently ,having difficulty finding off- site sleeping
quarters. ,
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Mike do you have to upgrade the septic for the additional bathroom
and shower upstairs?,
MIKE KIMACK : We put into Health Department for another standard system adjacent to the,one
that's in the ground. When you're- dealing with the commercial code within the Health
Department you're,required by square footage to.have a certain type of system in there. That
system was put in in 2005 and it's a thousand gallon tank at the present time and it's scheduled
for 992.gallons.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So you're okay with that.
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Regular Meeting September 3,.2020
MIKE KIMACK Well that's the`.--existing one and then we're putting a new-standard system ?- r
adjacent to it for the upstairs.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :That's a thousand gallon septic that you're adding?
MIKE KIMACK : Yea as-amatter of fact I did get comment back from Health Department, they'd
like to see a 1250 which is not a problem. =
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay I had a question,just out of curiosity cause these are bunk beds,
five bunk beds so two people on a bunk thing. Are these only male or are they male and female
workers?
MIKE KIMACK : No it's only male. I know that the question was also raised in Planning because
they saw at downstairs therewas a male and a.female bathroom.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Exactly.
MIKE KIMACK : It's only male upstairs. F
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric do you have any questions?
MEMBER DANTES : No.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Rob.
MEMBER LEHNERT : No my question was the Health Department question you asked.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Nick. —
MEMBER
ick. —MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I don't think it's relevant but it's something I'd like to ask.The windows,
are they sufficient windows for the space?They seem awfully small.
MIKE KIMACK : Basically that's up-to Mark Schwartz and the Building Department. I think'he's
adding three windows in there with the staircase coming down. I'm not quite sure of the size, I
know that they have to be a certain size in order to meet Fire Marshall code and
MEMBER PLANAMENTO :And for ventilation and light they just strike me as being small of a few.
MIKE KIMACK : If the Building Department basically suggest or requires it to be larger they will
be. The existing building these are being added,windows basically like that so they were drawn
[n. Obviously they could be changed if the Building Department•finds that they're not adequate
for the building.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Pat any questions?
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No, no questions. When I was fliere I did meet the Ione employee that
was there and he pretty well you know explained just what Mike has gone through to me so I
have no questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay very good. Is there anyone here in the waiting room that
BOARD ASSISTANT : I have someone here by the name of Norman. I believe that maybe wants to
speak on this matter can he raise his hand if he wishes-to speak. Oh what happened to him?
MEMBER DANTES : He got bumped to the top, he raised his hand.
BOARD SECRETARY : Alright then I'm going to move him to the panelist list. There's Norman and
he needs to unmute.
NORMAN KEIL : Hi can you hear me?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We can what would you like us to know?
NORMAN KEIL : I just want to say hello, I'm the owner of the property. If you h'ad any questions I
just wanted to let you know I was here.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh okay. Well it looks like there are no questions. Listen we all
understand the need for seasonal workers housing out here for you know supporting agriculture
and vineyards and all that so I think we're good unless anybody else has questions or anyone else
wanting to speak about it. Hearing no further questions or comments I'm going to make a motion
to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a second on that motion?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Seconded by Member Lehnert. Kim call the roll please.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora how do you vote?
MEMBER ACAMPORA :Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member'Acampora votes aye. Member Dantes how do you vote?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Dantes votes aye. Member Lehnert how do you vote?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Lehnert votes aye. Member Planamento how do you vote?
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye. 4
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Planamento votes aye. Chairperson Weisman how do you vote?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Chairperson Weisman votes aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Motion carries unanimously. We'll have a decision in two weeks.
MIKE KIMACK : Thank you everyone, stay safe.
HEARING#7413—TIMOTHY FROST
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We are now on number three Timothy Frost#7413. This is a request
for variances from Article III Section 280-15 and the Building Inspector's February 19, 2020 Notice
of Disapproval based on an application for a permit to construct an accessory in-ground
swimming pool and an accessory pool house and garage at 1) swimming pool located in other
than the code required rear yard, 2) accessory pool house/garage located in other than'the code
required rear yard located at 1995 Village Lane in Orient. Is there someone here to represent this
application?
BOARD SECRETARY : I moved Timothy Frost to the panelist list.Tim?
TIMOTHY FROST : Yes, I'm going to start the video now.
BOARD SECRETARY : So you can hear us?
TIMOTHY FROST : Yes I can. With me today is Kevin Perry who helped with the design. Do you
want me to begin?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well let me just enter into the record what we're looking at. We're
looking at a pool and a pool house garage in a front yard where the code requires a rear yard
location. So having said that now please present what you'd like us to hear.
TIMOTHY FROST : Alright, thank you. We will be brief and to the point. Tim Frost the owner of
1995 Village Lane the location of the addition under review. The application as you mentioned
relates to a lap pool, changing room and one car garage proposed to be located at the back of
my lot fronting Village Lane. The Disapproval results from a through lot configuration with
surrounding streets resulting in no rear yard. As a thirty five year resident I both appreciate and
am sensitive to the unique character and charm of Orient and particularly the village where both
the density and the number of non-conforming pre-existing structures poses challenges to both
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020 _
homeowners and you as the ZBA.To address those challenges we-have worked diligently on both
placement and design aspects and the proposed project has been issued a Certificate of
Appropriateness from the Historic Preservation Commission for the design. With that I asked
Kevin Perry to provide context and briefly review our conceptual and design thinking.
KEVIN PERRY : The Fletcher St., Vincent St. and Willow St. sort of wrap around and form a new
street along the back of backside of Mr. Frost's property.Along that short stretch of three streets
there are three or four through lots each of which has some kind'of accessory structure on it,
several have garages. There are also four or five corner lots that have garages that are fronting
on these three streets. Mr. Frost's back yard is essentially an open space visually accessible from
Fletcher and Vincent and it's a bit of a community amenity. On the east side of Vincent St.there's
a row of very fine Victorian houses but on the west side of Vincent
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh I'm afraid you're frozen.
KEVIN PERRY : (inaudible) house itself is a historical property. It's a very large house fronting on
Village Lane and it was the center of the resort that lined the waterfront. On my sheet two you
can see our proposed scheme in relationship to the various out buildings around it. Because we
are so close to the water the property has a ground water problem and the pool must be elevated
by a couple of feet, approximately three feet worst case. So what we have proposed to do is to
put up the structure the garage and pool house out on the street aligning with the neighbors
garage next door. The garage itself is 10 feet off the property line as is the pool and the pool and
adjoining patio are elevated to 3 feet. If you can look at my section on sheet 03 you see the
strategy for setting in the raised pool is to dig it down in until where the appropriate distance
above ground water and then to put the safety use a plank safety fence that will blend in with
the,surrounding structures. On my sheet 4 you see a detail of the pool house and garage.You see
the patio and porch, roof plan is minor issue. On sheet 6'you see the elevations that have been
reviewed and are found acceptable by the HPC.Then I think on sheet 9 you have a photo montage
in which you see that the pool is pretty well concealed by the sheds. A big part of the scheme has
been to keep the open space open to place the buildings relative to the street in a matter
consistent with all of the other accessory buildings in the area and we also early on sort of
rejected the notion of trying to put this pool in the side yard of the house. It's a historic district
and we didn't feel that was appropriate. Did I miss anything?
TIMOTHY FROST: No I mean let me say we as I mentioned I'm a thirty five year resident.We were
particularly sensitive to the fact that we are adjacent to the Historical Society Campus and we
wanted to leave it as open as possible. The other side of it is that the buffer area along Fletcher
and Vincent streets which have been overgrown for years have been cleared. The intention is to
leave that as open as possible with low level native plantings along the street border. So there is
no intention or desire to close in this field along the lines of what is the increasing (inaudible) of
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
the Northfork. I think that basically that is it. I welcome any questions that you might have and I
leave it to you for review.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you have a copy of the LWRP recommendation?
TIMOTHY FROST : I do and in fact I called Mr. Terry because I wanted to ideally be able to explain
our thinking in terms of the placement particularly in relation to the fact that it is next to the
Historical Society. It has been an open field and the desire was to maximize the amount of open
space and to not have a pool which would be in the middle of the field or would really sort of
destroy that open space concept. Mr. Terry objects to the setbacks but the setbacks are the
nature of that particular street. It is Orient, it's a street filled with accessory structures most of
which are right on the street and I think that the HPC appreciated that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I would also suggest that a lot of those I don't know the number are
pre-existing non-conforming pre-date zoning.
TIMOTHY FROST : There's one that's true but that's what defines the current character of the
street.There is one and I don't knowthe full history but there is a through lot just down on Willow
the intersection of Willow and Vincent that has been approved recently it's a relocation of a barn.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think(inaudible)wouldn't be a bad idea to submit any prior variances
for non-conforming locations and non-conforming setbacks in that area. There are a number of
them. The Board often likes to be able to site prior variances as precedent. It would appear that
the proposed garage is 10 feet off the property line and 2.5 feet from Vincent St. It looked like
that walkway the pool is really slammed up against the property line the walkway. It's almost a
zero setback.
TIMOTHY FROST : Well the idea at least from my perspective there was to basically try to hide
the walkway so that if people were at the Historical Society they weren't sort of even knowing
that it was a pool. Having people a walkway in front of it I felt would defeat that idea. We have
set the pool back, the pool itself back 10 feet from the property line 10 foot one or whatever it is
and
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What is the elevation of that walkway, is that 3 feet above grade?
TIMOTHY FROST: No the walkway and I'm going to refer to Sheet 03,the walkway is at grade and
then there is a berm going up one to two natural grade to the elevated pool.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I'm looking at that sheet is see what you're talking about. I can see it
on your
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
'"_-TIMOTHY FROST : Yea that's sort of the key to this lis we've got a pool, it's got to be up a little bit
it's got to be up about 3 feet and we kept everything south of it the pool itself is open and natural.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And what are you going to landscape that berm'with?
TIMOTHY FROST : We haven't quite decided, it's a little hard to-keep it as grass which if we can
find someone to mow it, it might needs some kind of low ground cover.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay because you know pools are typically associated with noise,
people are in there splashing around and kids get in a pool and there's a good bit of noise.
Evergreen screening of some sort could possibly be a sound absorbent that doesn't require
mowing. It's not easy to mow on a berm and it would also provide some visual screening'some
privacy.
MEMBER DANTES : That's what he's trying to he's trying to leave the open space Leslie that's his
whole
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea but that's not relevant to the landscape berm Eric. The berm is
right adjacent to the property line, it's the placement of the pool the berm and the garage the
entirety of the proposal that's in that corner as a consequence of a desire so stated to keep more
of the open space on that lot. Otherwise he could move it over to the middle, get way far away
from the property line.
TIMOTHY FROST : Well as I said the whole point was to frankly not have it to maximize the open
space particularly given the fact that you know it's been an.existing feature. There is a lim,ited
amount of open space in the center of Orient Lane, Orient village. It isn't you know parkland and
the fact that it is adjacent to the Historical Society campus.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Right so all I'm saying'I just want Eric to be clear what I was talking
about, the berm is between the pool and the property line okay.
TIMOTHY FROST : Correct I understand the point.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : (inaudible) it's elevated, and my suggestion was rather than
something that is just grass or ground cover the possibility of installing evergreens would provide
without compromising the open space section that they're trying to keep it would ,not
compromise that but it would also provide some visual screening from the other accessory
structures and also sound absorbent you know some acoustical.
TIMOTHY FROST : I'm-c'ertainly open to that condition. I mean I think I understand the point and
agree with you and I also want to point out and I agree with you.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
KEVIN PERRY : I also want to,point out that this a lap pool. It's got no diving section, it's actually
for Mr. Frost uses it for his daily exercise routine.
TIMOTHY FROST : And my children are grown. I,should have had the pool thirty five years ago.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let's see if the Board has any questions, Rob we'll start with you.
MEMBER LEHNERT : No I don't have any questions right now.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, Pat?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric?
MEMBER DANTES : No I mean I'm looking at the aerial on the GIS right now and it looks like every
structure in that neighborhood is non-conforming somehow so
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Exactly.
TIMOTHY FROST : It's Orient we never conform.
KEVIN PERRY : Frankly its the charm of Orient.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Nick.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Yes, given and you started to ask about this or probe into, prior
variances granted for relief, while I can appreciate the placement of the garage structure and I
understand what your aesthetic is and what you'd like to achieve with the open space; in light of
the LWRP and the sort of bermafication of the pool being raised I'd like to know are there any
other pools in the area. Now you stated that you don't want to hedge off the property as many
people are doing today which again I ca,n appreciate but it makes it very hard for me as a Board
Member driving around to see if there are any pools. It would strike me that there are no pools
in the immediate vicinity.
TIMOTHY FROST : Well certainly I don't know of any in the immediate abutting properties of the
fourteen people that I had to notify with certified letters. I don't believe there is a pool. I can
think of any number of pools within three hundred feet of here.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Do you know if any of those pools received variances?
KEVIN PERRY : I don't think so because they're in rear yards. We're a through lot and that sort of
kicks off the variance right there. In fact if this and I'm a little dangerous here because I don't
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020 .
know fhe zoning as well as I should but if this were regarded as a rear yard with the exception of
the distance off the street I think we'd be compliant, zoning compliant.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I had a question about the pool house. I'm looking at Sheet 4 that has
the floor plan of the garage and the pool house, you know it's just got some sort of windows and
generic you know furniture but there's a long bar is that going to be a kitchen?
KEVIN PERRY : No there's no plumbing back there well other than for the pool.
TIMOTHY FROST : It's unheated, there is the outdoor shower, there's no plumbing,in the pool
house. It's also a very small space.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay good, seasonal use pool house, unheated no plumbing.
KEVIN PERRY : Yea as a matter of fact there's a note on Sheet-04 it is unheated. There will be a
refrigerator limited to five cubic feet which is probably what you're looking at.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :That's what the code now states yes.
KEVIN PERRY : And the pool house portion of the structure is 212 sq. ft.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay good. Let's see if there's anybody in the
BOARD ASSISTANT : Yes I do believe I have someone who has raised their hand, Ellen McNeilly.
So I'm going to move her to the panelists.
ELLEN MCNEILLY :Yes can you hear me?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN:Yes we can hear you Ellen.
ELLEN MCNEILLY : Good morning. I wanted (inaudible) guys to you the Chairwoman Weisman
and the Board and Ms. Fuentes because I had a later arrival of documents into the Board
yesterday concerning my concerns for (inaudible) applicant. Mr. Frost had suggested meeting
again and I was waiting for his availability as I knew that he'd been involved with the Census but
when it became apparent that there's not going to be a meeting I had to scramble to put all my
comments and things together. So here they are in a kind of an odd way. I sent in photographs
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We got them.
ELLEN MCNEILLLY:Thank you so much, I really apologize to how late all of this was.The questions
that I have are as follows, the location of the project is the Suffolk County designated septic
improvement area due to sea water intrusion. Do any Suffolk County restrictions given depth to
ground water location close to the Orient Harbor have any bearing on the viability and or r
appropriateness of this project, that's question number one.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well let's see if they can answer_that. -
ELLEN MCNEILLY : Sorry.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let's see if the applicant can answer that question.
KEVIN PERRY :The question, Ellen can you repeat it again sorry.
ELLEN MCNEILLY : I said the location of the project is in the Suffolk County designated septic
improvement area due to sea water intrusion. Do any current Suffolk County restrictions given
the depth to groundwater and location close to Orient Harbor have any bearing on the viability
and or appropriateness of this project?
TIMOTHY FROST : Well I'm not familiar that requirement but I can say that we have monitored
the ground water level through the spring and summer and it reached a maximum of two and a
half feet below grade which is why the pool the base of the pool the concrete bottom of the pool
is at about 2 feet less than the highest you know ground water level that we observed.
ELLEN MCNEILLY : Okay but let me comment again too, my garage the garage that Mr. Frost is
proposing is directly adjacent to my garage at 205 Willow St. and that particular garage I had to
have the floor replaced in that garage in 2017 due to dangerous frost heaves and to prevent
reoccurrence as gravel filled relief piping was installed to the water table. Gary Tabor who was
the contractor and excavator at that point noted the then water table at 4%feet. It is now listed
at 2 % feet would seem to be in keeping with what we have known as the sea water level sea
level rise in that general area.
KEVIN PERRY : Ellen the water level that we're working with was as determined by a test hole
done in December. It might in fact be a little bit lower it does vary partially on sea level and tide
and partially on the
MEMBER DANTES : I can answerthis. Depending like on different times of the year and depending
on rainfall the water level in the test holes will vary and it can vary by a couple of feet. The sea
water (inaudible) in this test has to do more with drinking water and septic than it does with
structural viability.
ELLEN MCNEILY : Nonetheless it's the water table.
MEMBER DANTES : Right but water tables fluctuate all over the island, they always have.
KEVIN PERRY : The maximum that we observed you know through the beginning of the spring
until the end of the summer, the maximum was 2 % feet. It usually was about 3 % feet in terms
of standing water in a hole and we've designed for what-we believe is (inaudible).
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
ELLEN MCNEILLY -.-And this is what I was referring to in terms of 2017 was 4% standing water in
a hole.So there's been some increase in intrusion in water coming in which could be problematic.
MEMBER DANTES : That's not a true statement cause I mean the fact is water tables fluctuate
depending on the time of the year and depending on rainfall.
ELLEN MCNEILLY :That's true. The other question I had was the 6 foot fence on the boundary of
the Frost property abuts the property line of 205 Willow St. affecting the maintenance of the
hedge, the shed and the garage at 205 Willow making it very difficult to maintain them because
it is butt up against the hedge which is there according to photographs I sent in yesterday. They
are all one foot from the Willow St. boundary. Relief had been verbally'granted by Mr. Frost from
an area from the street to the abutting northwest corner of the 205 Willow St. garage but I don't
see it noted on the existing plans as you have them in front of you at this point. So therefore the
balance remains negatively impacted as it remains in line with the survey marker highlighted in
photo number one and the tree in photo number three that I submittedJurthermore the fence
at the south boundary line is the same height, 6 feet as the 205 Willow St. hedge,see photograph
number four. The landscape berm rise to a pool deck patio height of 3 feet. As a result persons
on the pool deck and patio are visible at waist height seriously impacting the privacy at 205
Willow St. see project sheet number six and number seven and there are photos number four
from standing ground level at the porch of 205 Willow St. and another one that the deck of-the
pool would be visible at waist height even at this distance.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let me just interrupt for a second, that's one of the reasons why I
suggested the berm be planted with evergreen screening so that there would be visual a wall of
visual privacy with no maintenance involved really so that that wouldn't be the case.
ELLEN MCNEILLY :That's a good solution.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I mean it's for the property owner as well as anybody adjacent to it. I
mean it's to everybody's benefit.
TIMOTHY FROST: Ellen Tim Frost here,we had discussed and I certainly would be willing to make
it a condition and I don't know how this works procedurally in terms of protocol but we do as I
had mentioned as a consideration take out that corner of the deck which would allow you access
to the garage and you know I think I'm fine with the idea that Chairman Weisman mentioned of
the screening along that berm.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : One second Ellen, just because I need to enter this into the record,
typically an applicant needs to address the Board and any interested party needs to address the
Board because I know you know each other as neighbors, I've said go ahead and talk to each
other more or less but you really need to be talking to us. That is the protocol for these kinds of
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
meetings but if you had one other question Ellen please go ahead and ask it and we'll see where
we go with it.
ELLEN MCNEILLY :Just a minor question, I did some internet research which people often do the
property owner has described this as a lap pool.The dimensions don't seem to be consistent with
standard lap pools which are generally eight to ten feet wide by forty feet to seventy feet long,
Town and Country pools as a reference on that although the pool depth is_consistent in this case
it would be constrained by the terrain that it's being built in. That's just a
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, anything else from anyone, anyone else in the audience who's
here for this application I don't see anyone.
BOARD ASSISTANT : We can ask if there's anybody else here. They can raise their hand or hit I
believe *9 on their phone if they wish to speak.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well while that's happening, does, the Board have any other
questions? I'm not seeing anyone else here. Any questions from the Board at this point?
BOARD ASSISTANT : I do have a question for Tim, the gentleman's name next to you I'm sorry I
didn't catch it.
KEVIN PERRY : Kevin Perry I'm listed on the drawings.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright well hearing no further questions or comments I'm going to
make a motion to close this hearing reserve decision to a later date, is there a second?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Member Acampora seconds the motion, Kim please call for the vote.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora how do you vote?
MEMBER ACAMPORA :Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora votes aye. Member Dantes how do you vote?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Dantes votes aye. Member Lehnert how do you vote?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Lehnert votes aye. Member Planamento how do you vote?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
BOARD SECRETARYµ:Member Planamento votes aye. Chairperson Weisman how do you vote?'--
CHAIRPERSON
ote?--CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Chairperson Weisman votes aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Motion carries.
BOARD ASSISTANT Leslie between these hearings I'm going to ask Liz or Donna just to repeat
the instructions again and then I'm going to clean up the panelist list.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, I'm going to need to take literally a one minute two minute
recess so I'm going to make a motion to recess. Kim you can carry on working with panelists and
so on and we can all just stretch our legs fora second. Is there a second on motion to recess?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Member Lehnert seconds that motion. Let me see a show of Pat is
that alright with you how do you vote, Eric, Nick okay we are in recess for one to two minutes
we'll be right back. Motion to reconvene.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :,Seconded by Member Planamento. All in favor please just raise your
hand one at a time and just let the recording show that every member voted to reconvene.
Motion carries unanimously, are we ready for the next application?
OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : Let me just make an announcement Leslie. Just a reminder if
you're here to comment go ahead and click the raise hand button or send us a quick note via the
Q&A at the bottom and for people using their phones, in order to let us know you would like to
speak please press *9 to raise your hand and we will allow you to speak and let us know who you
are here for. Thank you.
HEARING#7414— ERIC BAIZ
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay thank you for reminding everybody Liz. The next application
before the Board is for item number four on the agenda. This is for Eric Baiz # 7414. This is a
request for a variance from Article III Section 280-15 and the Building Inspector',s,February 24,
2020 Notice of Disapproval'based on an application to legalize "as built" additions to an existing
single family dwelling at 1) existing accessoryga rage located in other than the code required rear
yard located at 870 Bay Home Rd. in Southold. I think Pat Moore is representing this.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
BOARD SECRETARY : Yes,and we also have Eric Baiz as an attendee so I'm={going to bring Pat in
first. So here's Pat.
PAT MOORE : Hi everyone.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Did you want to let the applicant in Eric Baiz or does he just want to
listen?
PAT MOORE : Sure.
BOARD ASSISTANT : I'll let him in.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So while that's happening just let me enter into the record that this is
to legalize -"as built" additions and alterations to a dwelling that places the,existing accessory
garage partly in a side yard and that happens to be a 9 foot by 8 foot wooden deck which is
attached to the rear of the house. So Pat would you hi Eric. You have to unmute if you want to
speak. There you go, hi there. Pat would you present this application.
PAT MOORE : Yes thank you. This is a very straightforward application. Just historically as far as
dates for the Board, the house and the garage both have Pre C.O.'s. The house the main house
was built in 1910. The garage was built in 1950.Then there was the roof over the wood deck,the
original was built in 1946 so this house it's a pre-existing house. The (inaudible):wood deck was
originally built between 1965 and 1968. It was thereafter we finished because it has newer
materials I guess from the 80's I believe but it's time to upgrade it or just resurface it and part of
the issue is we did want to get a building permit for it when we were researching how many you
know what permits existed on this house it became obvious that the wood deck from the 60's
was not did not have a permit. The deck itself when it is reconstructed needs new footings or
proper footings, the existing footings under the existing deck are adequate but not to code. So
this really is a very technical application, the house and all its structures are "as built" but very
old and because of it the placement of the garage places I guess places the garage in the side
yard even though all these structures predate zoning.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. I have no questions, let's see Pat do you have any questions?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : I have no questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric.
MEMBER DANTES : No not at this time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Rob.
MEMBER LEHNERT : No I have no questions.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Ni`ck. "
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : No questions.
PAT MOORE : Well thank God. I finally get an easy one.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's right. Just so you know Mr. Baiz the Board has all individually
inspected the property. We do that before every public hearing so we know the area,we've seen
the house and the deck and garage and so on. Okay I don't think there's anybody else in the
attendees list for this application so hearing no further questions or comments I'm going to make
a motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Seconded by Member Acampora. Kim call the roll please.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora how do you vote?
MEMBER ACAMPORA :Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora votes aye. Member Dantes how do you vote?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye. -
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Dantes votes aye. Member Lehnert how do you vote?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Lehnert votes aye. Member Planamento how do you vote?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Planamento votes aye. Chairperson Weisman how do you vote?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Chairperson Weisman votes aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Motion carries unanimously. We'll have a decision in two weeks.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
HEARING f#7415—SUSAN AMBROSIO -
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next item on the agenda is for Susan Ambrosio # 7415. This is a
request for variances from.Article III Section 280-15 and the Building Inspector's February 21,
2020 amended July 22, 2020 Notice of Disapproval based on an application to construct an
accessory garage and two accessory sheds at 1) accessory garage located in other than the code
required rear yard, 2) accessory shed located in other than the rear yard, 3) accessory shed
located less than the code required front yard setback of 50 feet located at 1940 Mason Drive
(adj. to Broadwaters Cove) in Cutchogue. Just a few little details,the two sheds do exist already.
The southerly shed is an 8 by 12 in the side yard and that had to do with a Trustees determination
and the 8 by 12 shed the northerly shed is 31 feet side yard setback where the code requires 50
that must be a front yard setback.The two sheds are there and the accessory garage is proposed
in I guess partial side yard is that right? Let me look. That 41 foot setback from Mason Drive and
it's mostly in the front yard (inaudible) partially in'the side yard. Okay tell us what you'd like us
to know about this application Mr. Ambrosio.
MR. AMBROSIO : Can you hear me?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Yes we can.
MR. AMBROSIO : The original house was taken down two years ago and we worked with the
Trustees to come up with a plan that would be acceptable which included a new house, the
existing two sheds that were on the property that were conforming at the time and a proposed
garage.The original design had the garage attached to the house and the Trustees said we would
rather have it where it's residing now basically on this plan. It's an unheated garage with cold
storage above and basically we're looking to leave the sheds where they are because we felt they
were best located and we put plants around the sheds to try and make them appealing to the
eye. The proposed garage for us in the future would be where it's shown on the drawing it's
simply that. We would have a hand sink and possibly a toilet on the first floor of the garage but
that's only there if we decide to do it in the future. At this point we have no plans for that. Since
I'm in the business it wasn't a big deal for me to just run a line. Basically that's it:
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do we have plans for the garage here, let's see we must have.
MR. AMBROSIO : We sent you drawings.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea we have them I got them right here. (inaudible) foundation plan
and I don't let me see you do have stairs going up to the second floor. You have a section cold
storage area but we don't have any floor plan of that.
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Regular Meeting September 3,2020
MR. AMBROSIO : Well because it's just a big open room, it's just cold storage there's nothing in
it.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So the rafters will be exposed, there will be no insulation?
MR. AMBROSIO : No it's not being built with insulation there's no reason to it's just a garage. We
don't have any plans other than a garage.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So we have no insulation, open rafters okay. Let's see if there's any
questions, Nick.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Thank you, you asked one of the questions I was curious about. Next,
why and I understand that the Trustees directed the placement of the two sheds but at the time
you didn't have a garage when the sheds were placed there, why do you wish to maintain the
sheds when you're building a large garage a two car garage or a two bay garage with storage
above?
MR. AMBROSIO : Because Nick at this juncture we're not going build a garage right now. We just
finished spending a lot of money on the house and our feeling is we'd like to recover. In the future
I'm closer to retirement than further away that I would like to be able to build a garage and it
could be two, three years from now that we have regrouped and we're able to construct so that
we have a place to put our cars.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Do you think that you can break ground for,the garage within two
years?
MR. AMBROSIO : We could yes. Look I GC'ed the house and I'm running a business, it was a lot
for me so I felt like I needed to take a little bit of a breather before I move on again.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well one of the things that is implied by what Nick just said is that
when we grant variances they have to be codified within a three year period. Otherwise you do
have the right to request a one year extension with an explanation you know you just weren't
ready to build it, you didn't have the finances whatever it is and that runs out at the end of six
years.
MR. AMBROSIO : I'm aware of that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay just wanted,to make sure that you knew that because usually
we have people planning to you know get going immediately but so it's important just to make
sure you understand that you have time but you don't have endless time.
MR. AMBROSIO : No you know what I did all the expediting on this whole build and'it was so
many agencies to deal with that I realized that you're better off putting everything on the plan
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
and dealing with reach agency as a the plan as a whole. So that's why I'm doing it the Way-I'm
doing it because it just makes more sense. I need a place to put my things though at this juncture
that's
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Mr.Ambrosio to that point, would it be an acceptable condition to you
that upon completion of the garage structure you would remove the two sheds?
MR.AMBROSIO : Well let me ask you a question and that might be okay, I keep my tractor in one
of the sheds okay and my garden tools in my other shed. You know as big as a garage might be
sometimes when you put two cars in it there's not much room left so I mean I would ask that I
didn't have to do that cause I have a fair amount of property. It's a lot of property actually and
it's pretty open if you look at the way the front yard is all laid out so I mean if it came down to a
yes or a no certainly I would consider it but I would appreciate if I didn't have to do that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Well you know one of the non-conformities of the existing shed is the
setback, if the shed that's closest to Mason Drive was removed the other one would then have a
conforming setback.
MR. AMBROSIO : Right, right.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : The first shed is the one that really bothers me and you know just it
strikes me that you have a bit of a marshalling yard for lack of a better word with boat trailer
storage you know I saw that there was like a hose reel that was hooked up to some waterline. I
mean I get that you need something and I do understand that garages can fill, it's just that it's
sort of despite the landscaping right there. I think I would be happiest I can't speak for other
Board Members but as Leslie the Chairperson just pointed out the one closest to Mason
especially is the one that I find more difficult.
MR. AMBROSIO : I can go along with that. I think that would be reasonable from my perspective
anyway.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay any other questions from anybody, Eric anything from you?
MEMBER DANTES : Yes. I know there's other variances that we've granted on Mason Drive,
maybe you can pull those variances and submit them for the file. I know we've granted variances
for sheds, I think maybe one for a garage before but I don't remember.
BOARD SECRETARY : You want comps?
MEMBER DANTES : I know they're there.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :That's,for accessory structures in a front yard.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
MR. AMBROSIO : Can I just ask a question'`so-1 have clarity?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Sure.
MR. AMBROSIO : So what we're discussing is the possibility that if you grant me the ability to
build the garage the condition of that would be to move one shed which is closest to Mason Drive
correct?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Correct.
MR. AMBROSIO : Okay, I'm okay with that yea.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, by the way the Board frequently does ask for prior variances in
the neighborhood because they are precedence and we do know there are accessory sheds,
accessory structures in front yards on Mason so if you can find some of them I mean even if you
drive up and down the street and then document that you know and then you can even call the
office to say did this one get a variance. I mean sometimes things are built without variances
legally or otherwise of they are Pre-C.O.'s so it's not uncommon for us to ask an applicant to
submit anything pertinent to the kind of variance they're requesting in their neighborhood
because it helps characterize the neighborhood.
MR. AMBROSIO : Okay.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything else from anybody? Hearing no further questions or
comments
BOARD SECRETARY : I just want to make sure because there's several people that are in the
attendees list and I can't identify them. I'm just going to ask them if they want to raise their hand
or if they want to hit *9 if they're on the phone right now. Okay I'm not getting any response.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Nothing in the Q&A and there's nothing in chat at this point.
BOARD SECRETARY : Nope.
MEMBER DANTES : Wait Leslie, 1150 looks like it has a garage in the front yard. I remember
granting that one, it looks like 950 has a garage in the front yard I don't remember that one.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Alright well that's helpful.Alright I'm sure we can get that information.
You want me to close this subject to receipt or can we do some of our own digging what do you
think? Nick what do you want to do?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I'm fine closing it just you know pending obviously their submission.
MEMBER DANTES : 1835 has a garage in the front yard.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN-: Eric is busy looking on you know Google at the moment and he's
seeing accessory sheds and garages in front yards on Mason.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I have no problem closing the hearing.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you want it subject to receipt of priors?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Yes. Hopefully Mr. Ambrosio can get that to us immediately.
MR. AMBROSIO : Just tell me what exactly.
BOARD SECRETARY : Call the office tomorrow.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Kim or Liz will walk you through it.
MR. AMBROSIO : Okay great.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What that means is, as soon as we get I'm going to close this there
will be no further public hearing but we don't start the clock on the sixty two days that we have
to write a decision until we receive what it is we're requesting which in this case is prior variances
on Mason Drive.
MR. AMBROSIO : Okay fair enough.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The office will help you with that. So motion to close the hearing
subject to receipt of priors and comps along Mason Drive. Is there a second?
MEMBER DANTES : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Seconded by Member Dantes. Kim call the roll please.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora how do you vote?
MEMBER ACAMPORA :Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora votes aye. Member Dantes how do you vote?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Dantes votes aye. Member Lehnert how do you vote?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Lehnert votes aye. Member Planamento how do you vote?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Planamento votes`aVe. Chairperson Weisman how do you vote?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Chairperson Weisman votes aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Motion carries unanimously.
HEARING#7416—RICHARD R. VANDERBEEK,JR., PAUL B. VANDERBEEK, ET AL
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application is for Richard R. Vanderbeek Jr., Paul B.
Vanderbeek, et al. # 7416. A request for a variance from Article,XXIII Section 280-124 and the
Building Inspector's November 21, 2019 Notice of Disapproval based on an application to legalize
an "as built" deck addition attached to an existing single family dwelling at 1) located less than
the code required total side yard setback of 25 feet located at 1150 Ruch Lane (adj. To
Hashamomuck Pond) in Greenport. Is Bruce here?
BOARD SECRETARY : Yes I just moved Bruce to the panelist list and there he is.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Hi Bruce.
BRUCE ANDERSON : Good morning everyone.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So this is an "as built" deck attached to a single family dwelling with a
combined side yard setback at 15.9 feet where the code requires 25 feet and the westerly side
yard is 8.9 feet to the house and 1.6 to the side deck.The easterly side yard is 14.3 feet.The deck
has existed for decades and we've all been out to take a look at it. It is LWRP exempt. Okay take
it away Bruce.
BRUCE ANDERSON : So the applicants Richard (inaudible) and Bradford Vanderbeek are actually
the trustees to their parents estate which is Richard and Bernice Vanderbeek who've owned this
property for many, many years and sometime I'm told in the early eighties this deck was built.
When you went out there and you looked at it you would have seen that the deck sweeps past
the side door entrance to the house which is raised something like 24 inches above grade and so
the first I want you to take notice of there must have been some sort of a deck or stoop that
previously existed there otherwise there would have been no way to get into the house. Then of
course there must have been a non-conforming setback with respect to that platform to enter
the house. Now I don't know how big the stoop was so I can't give you that information but the
deck measures 7.3 feet by 27 feet. It kind of wraps around the house to the water occupying 197
sq. ft. The lot itself is a pre-existing non-conforming lot and the zone in which it.lies it contains
8,558 sq. ft. and its combined total side yard 8, 9 and 14.3 is 23.2 so the total side yard for the
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
house absent of the deck is still pre-existing non-conforming. With the approval of the deck that
23 feet becomes 15.9 feet. So the variance that we request pursuant to the Building Inspector's
Notice of Disapproval and we believe we would comply that we achieve the criteria for granting
a variance because obviously there's going to be no change in the neighborhood because the
deck's there and it's been there nearly forty years without incident, complaint or otherwise
upsetting the neighborhood. You can't do anything with this deck,,we need the benefit of a
variance in order to legalize it so that's why we filed this application. We don't think the variance
is substantial because it constitutes 36% of the overall requirement and we don't think the
variance will have.an adverse effect on the physical and environmental conditions of the
neighborhood. The deck is essentially inert in decks of that sort of common to the area. So
although the hardship is self-created because it was built the removal of that deck wouldn't
(inaudible) to anyone's benefit and something would have to be constructed to put in its place
to access the side entrance of the house. So it is our contention that the granting of the variance
the benefit to the applicant would greatly outweigh any detriment to the health, safety and
welfare of the neighborhood or community because'there is no impact to the health, safety of
the neighborhood. This is a neighborhood if you look at your survey there we have lots that are
50 feet wide and that's common up and down the street.You'll notice on the survey that directly
across the street is a second parcel which they also own and that parcel is occupied by a garage
which is also common in this particular stretch of housing along Ruch Lane. So Ruch Lane is really
comprised of many, many non-conformities up and down because of limited lot widths and I'm
here to answer any questions you may have.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric any questions from you?
MEMBER DANTES : No not at this time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Pat any questions?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No.
CHAIRPERSON WEIMSAN : Nick.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : No questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Rob.
MEMBER LEHNERT : No questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Just for the record, Bruce we did receive a letter of support from an
adjacent neighbor.
BRUCE ANDERSON : I appreciate that.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have it in our file. Well I have-no questions either. I guess there's
I don't think there's anybody else here for this. Alright then I'm going to make a motion to close
the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER DANTES : I'll second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Seconded by Member Dantes. Would you call the roll please Kim.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora how do you vote?
MEMBER ACAMPORA :Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora votes aye. Member•Dantes how do you vote?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Dantes votes aye. Member Lehnert how do you vote?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Lehnert votes aye. Member Planamento how do you vote?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Planamento votes aye. Chairperson Weisman how do you vote?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Chairperson Weisman votes aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Motion carries unanimously. We'll have a decision in two weeks
Bruce.
HEARING#7420— MICHAEL KREGER
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before this Board is for Michael Kreger #7420.
This is a request for an Interpretation pursuant to Article III Section 280-13 and the Building
Inspector's February 25, 2020 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for additions and
alterations to a single family dwelling to determine whether the current improvements
constitutes as a third floor located at 985 Bay Shore Rd. (adj. to Pipes Creek) in Greenport. This
is for a code interpretation and the applicant is represented by his attorney Steve Kiely. Hi Steve
nice to see you. Look at you with no glasses and beard.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
STEPHEN KIELY : Hi how are you? It's a Corona beard.
BOARD ASSISTANT : Steve there was Ashley as the attendee, did she want to also
STEPHEN KIELY : I don't know who Ashley is.
BOARD ASSITANT : Okay, Kreger no okay.
STEPHEN KIELY : Oh I don't know, I don't think they're going to be speaking.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay so this is a code interpretation request so we've all been out
there to see the property, of course it's under construction so we weren't able to do an interior
inspection and tell us what you'd like us to know.
STEPHEN KIELY : Good morning everyone, madam Chairwoman and the rest of the Board. As you
know my name is Stephen Kiely P.O. Box 567 Mattituck, New York 11952. I'm the attorney for
the applicant Michael Kreger and as a way of background the subject property is a Pipes Creek
waterfront parcel located in R40 zoning district. As such according to the bulk schedule for
residential districts, the maximum number of stories is 2 % not 2, 2 %2 stories. Section 280-18
states in pertinent part that "No building shall be erected unless same conforms to the
requirements of the Bulk Schedule". Here the subject dwelling is in full conformity with the Bulk
Schedule. The applicants secured a building permit to construct a new 2 % story dwelling and
substantially finished with that construction. However the original plans call for an unfinished
storage only half story with a pull down staircase as what was required by the Building
Department.The applicant then sought to amend the plans to use a dedicated staircase and have
habitable space in the half story for a sitting room. This action triggered this subject Notice of
Disapproval thus we are here today not having anything to do with the dimensional
characteristics of the half story but solely about the use, the use of that half story. I'm here to
respectfully request that you exercise your powers pursuant to Section 280-146D to interpret
and determine once and for all the meaning of a half story.This question has been lurking around
for a long time. In fact I pulled the Minutes from the 2006 application, fourteen years ago and
the name of the applicant was Neuman where Pat Moore stated therein that this definition has
always posed a problem in the Building Department. So I'm hoping that we can finally address
this problem. I argue about the meaning of a half story is right in front of our eyes in Section 280-
4. Section 280-413 states that, "the following terms shall not may shall for the purpose of this
Chapter half meanings as herein defined, a half story is defined a story half is defined as any space
with a minimum clear height of five feet, partially within the roof framing with a clear height of
not more than 50% of such space between the top of the floor beams and the structural ceiling
level is 7 feet 6 inches or more". Our plans on page A1.04 show that the subject area falls squarely
within that definition specifically the area of 5 feet or greater in the half story is 1,174 sq. ft. The
area of 7 foot 6 inches or greater is 492 sq. ft. I'm not good at math so I had my son do it for me
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_ Regular Meeting September 3, 2020 .
and that's 45.9%, less than the 50% (inaudible)'definition is 7 f66t'6 or greater. Thus in my mind
we should not be here. However the Building Department has enacted a policy dictating use
whereby anytime you want to finish a half story and have a dedicated staircase there too,it is
automatically deemed an illicit third story and bunt it to ZBA but the Bulk Schedule
unquestionably all dwellings to be up to 2 % stories high. So again why am I here? Because.,
the Building Department has deemed anything other than an unfinished attic with a pull down
stair to that half story to be a half story but where does that qualification exist in the definition?
Nowhere. In the entire town code for that matter, nowhere it just does not appear anywhere.
It's been said that the Building Department has injected the State code into the half story
definition. The New York State (inaudible) Fire Prevention and Building code does not have half
stories just like some shoes don't come in half sizes. Anything above a second story is deemed a
third story and if certain conditions are met a sprinkler system is required. Here we are voluntarily
putting in a sprinkler system. For the State code and a Town code are two different (inaudible)
with two different purposes.The State code is exclusively concerned'with health and safety that's
it versus the Town code which is not only concerned with health and safety but also quality of
life and the Town Board must (inaudible) quality-of life when it permitted a house of 2 % stories
to be permitted as of right whether it was because of a number of existing houses already had a
half story or deem that such a story can add to enjoyment of property by maximizing usable space
and use. The State code does not trump the Town code and say you cannot have a half story or
more than two stories. It just says you may have to sprinkle and here we're doing this. If the Town
Board when they created this definition did not,want 2%story dwellings it could have done what
Southampton did, limit it to two stories and Bulk Schedule. You can only have two stories or they
could have done what East Hampton did, explicably restrict that such a half story to an attic.They
allow 2%stories but when you go to their definition it defines it as an attic. Here the Town Board
did not qualify the use of the half story. The limitations of a regulation what the Town Board
chose not to do for example in this case prohibit finished habitable space in the half story are as
much a part of the purpose of the regulation as the affirmative (inaudible). So the fact that they
did not qualify, it means that they didn't want to. Brookhaven Town has similar language to ours
and if this building permit application was filed there we would not be in front of the ZBA and the
Zoning Board here should not uphold the Building Department's practice of restriction- by
implication. Reading any qualifications such as non-habitable, unfinished space into the
definition is clearly in degradation of private property rights and should be immediately ceased.
The Building Department cannot legislate and if the Building Department feels that such
qualifications are necessary they should petition the Town Board to amend the code. In sum, I
ask that the Board not attempt to enlarge, improve or change the definition as the Building
Department has arguably doing and interpret rather that the applicant's half story here falls
within the four corners of the half story definition and an area variance is not required. Further
to annul, reverse and set aside the subject Notice of Disapproval and direct the Building
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
Department to issue building permit #44316Z-;-for (inaudible). Thank you and if you have any
questions I'm available.,
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well let's start with Nick, do you have any question Nick?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I,prefer perhaps Leslie if you take a little bit more charge of the
questioning. I have a bunch of-stuff that's in my head but it's really at this time I'd rather not ask
a question.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay well first Steve thank you for the Memorandum of Law that you
submitted which is pretty much what I think you just covered into the recorded transcript of this
hearing. I think that the issue is very clearly identified by you and we have also known for a long
time that there is some degree of murkiness between the building code, state building code,
town definitions, determination of use and so on. So that's a lot to wrap your head around
especially since we're not all attorneys. I for one am going to want to listen to the transcript of
what you just said and reread things and look at,the different codes involved and see where we
can go from there but I think your request has been very clearly presented. I don't think I have
any questions about it so I need some time to mull it over and really,think about what all the
issues are and see what the ZBA feels it can do within our jurisdiction. We know what the Town
Board can do. They haven't so far changed their code and we'll just see where we can take it. I
don't know Pat do you have any questions?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No, I agree with you. There's a lot to review here and go over before, I
don't have a question at this time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea I mean it's not like variance standards where we're looking at
impact on the neighborhood and self-creation-Code interpretations as you know are challenging.
Eric anything from you?
MEMBER DANTES : Was there any like legislative history any hearings to adopt when they
adopted this code that you know of?
STEPHEN KIELY: No I don't I couldn't get access to that specific I tried but I could not find anything
but in this particular case like I get it you would want to look into legislative intent to try and
interpret this but it's clearly not in there at all. It's just dimensional gobidigook in the definition
like it has nothing to do what use you can make up there. I just want to touch on the State code
as well, again I said it but I just want to stress it again. It does not trump the Town code and does
not it's just another code that runs parallel with ours and it just says that if you're going above
that second you're going to need to sprinkle under certain conditions and even if we met it or
did not meet it we were going to sprinkle it anyway and we will put the sprinkler up there. Again
I just I think it's at this point under the responsibility of the Town Board like I said if the Building
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
'Department feels that you know due to health safety reasons or whatever that they need to go
call for a Code Committee meeting and meet with the Town Board and they expressed that,other
than that 1 don't see how the Building Department can keep making homeowners have to go to
the ZBA and make it as a default position. It's costly it injects a lot of delay into the process'and
you know it's just needless in (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Steve can you address,-the definition from your legal expertise of half
story finished attic?
STEPHEN KIELY : I'm not sure what you're question is,just a definition?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well you mentioned you know the Hamptons where they say okay it's
two story house and an attic, the half story attic. What if you don't have a pull down stair, what
if you sheetrock it, what if you have electric in it?What's an unfinished attic?
STEPHEN KIELY : So the Building Department like I said, anytime you're going to slap up a piece
of sheetrock or not have a pull down staircase, put electric you're automatically deemed not an
attic and it's deemed habitable living space on a third story which again I don't even know how
they make the leap to the third story if you clearly meet the dimensional regulations of the
definition which we show crystal clear. East Hampton as a reference point defines half story and
the definition is an attic period and that was changed in 1991. So my assumption is they had a
similar code back in the day and had this problem more you know they wanted to clarify it so in
'91 much later after they originally adopted the zoning code they made that change and they
defined an attic as an unfinished uninhabited space used for storage purposes only which is
situated between the top floor and the roof of a single family residence having a gable roof.
Obviously if this was our definition we'd have to come to you if we wanted to finish it but this is
diametrically opposed to what we have as definition which just says, any space with a minimum
clear height of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't say any unfinished space just any space and
I combed the town code to see if there was any other reference to this half story and can give
some clarity and there is nothing in there. So as I said earlier, 280-413 states that you shall defer
to this definition not may and the Building Department should defer to that and that's what
controls here it's not what they think it was meant to be or how the State code might interact
with it. It's not it's what this definition says.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well the definition seems to be more concerned.with Bulk Schedule
with dimensional you know rather than use per say and can you address the whole issue of
habitability? If someone would go ahead and say it's a half story not (inaudible) but can you live
in it, can you sleep in it?
STEPHEN KIELY: Well again if we're just focusing on this definition it's any space so if they wanted
to put a bedroom up there obviously they have the fire suppression system,they're going to have
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
to have that so it is somewhat safe but they're not even looking in this particular case to do that.
They're looking to do just a sitting room no sleeping. They have a house on the water, it's a
beautiful view and they just want to have the opportunity to make use of that area. Again the
structure itself that half story was approved by the Building Department and when they originally
applied for they had a dedicated staircase and they were going to use it as finished storage and
then Plans Examiner crossed out the dedicated staircase and said it had to be a pull down and
also said you can't have it finished and that's why we're here. If we were going to just make it an
attic we wouldn't be here right now. The fact is given where the property is located he doesn't
have a basement so the area is going to be used for storage and a sitting room so we need that
utility and I tried to talk to my client and explain why the Building Department is saying that and
I can't and ] have an obligation to tell my client,you know my feeling on it and that's why and I
talked to the Building Inspector and I said you know at this point we're going to go for an
interpretation and you know he understands and I'm here and we're trying to just your decision
will like I have and this is by no means exhausted. I FOIL'ed some of the grants and you have,
twenty one grants between '01 and '19. Now again I'm not very good at math but that's almost
(inaudible) but I'm sure you've denied a bunch in the interim as well. So this is taking up your
time, your resources on these things that you shouldn't even necessarily in my mind be listening
to and if the Town Board wants you to, change the code.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I'm just trying to flush out anything I can think of at the moment just
so it's in the record. Let's see Nick do you have any questions now or
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I agree with what you said earlier just relative to it requires time to
digest this presentation to re-listen to the transcript but one of the thoughts that I have we sort
of touched a little bit on, but where the code is silent about things, things are not allowed. So
how do you make the connection between saying any space meaning for that extra half story
suddenly becomes an acceptable habitable space?
STEPHEN KIELY : You're absolutely right, if the Town code was silent as to half story you'd
absolutely be right you can't have the half story but it clearly says you can have a half story and
does not qualify or restrict what use you can make of that half story. So I don't think that it's
silent as to (inaudible)
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : But I think the half story becomes the attic space which while you said
and I think it was in East Hampton that you said in 1991 they changed the code, here it's not
defining anything but that's the way the law's been administered.
STEPHEN KIELY : But it doesn't say it can be used as an attic so then using your logic you won't
even be able to use it as an attic cause it doesn't say you're allowed to use it as an attic. It would
be deemed prohibited.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
MEMB`ER--PLANAMENTO : I think it's been understood I hearthat point. It's a veryfough dialogue.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well look, I think what's being clarified here are what are the
compelling issues, what are the conflicting perspectives,what are the different code definitions?
Basically the current code is mute on any use of the half story and as soon as it appears that it
will be used for habitation they have come to us and we have said okay a small area is reasonable
for various reasons when it won't affect the character of the neighborhood. We've done it as
area variances basically and required State code that it will be sprinkled and so on and stuff like
that. So that is the history with the ZBA as you well know Steve.
STEPHEN KIELY : Yes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So you know we've looked at them as area variances from the code
but there's never been an absolutely clear combination of the dimensional definition of half story
and how that half story may or may not be used which is why you've chosen a code interpretation
because the town has failed to address those things in the existing code. Did I summarize that
correctly?
STEPHEN KIELY :Yes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, phew. Alright let's see if anybody else has any questions or
comments at this point.
MEBMER PLANAMENTO : I think if,I may, just the concept from moving from a pull down like
(inaudible) attic stair to the full stair qualifies it as if you're counting the stairwells it becomes a
third floor without a doubt and I think that's where the Building Department is really making that
determination, if you had a pull down stair clearly it's a half story for storage for whatever it
might be and with a full stairwell it would seem if you're counting floors it becomes the third
floor regardless of meeting the 50%threshold or not. I think that's an important distinction as far
as the application and the interpretation.
STEPHEN KIELY : I respectfully disagree (inaudible) again you are'you the Building Department
everybody has to follow that definition and that definition does not speak to whether it's a pull
down or a dedicated staircase. And again it's just reading in restrictions and qualifications and
the third story and it's not and I beg to differ also, it's not a half the dedicated staircase does not
make it a third story when (inaudible) definition of half story. Pursuant to the State code you're -
absolutely right, it would'be deemed anything above the second story is a third story and again
but that doesn't say you can't have it, it just says that you need to sprinkle it and we are sprinkling
it to protect life and safety. We're not going to sprinkle it just for you know storage but again the
code and I don't think the State requires that when it's just storage but once you meet certain
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
conditions then you need to sprinkle it. Again and I understand we're dealing with two separate
codesand
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I'm just curious, now suppose you have we're proposing this is
theoretical but just so I can learn something but supposed you were proposing unfinished,
unconditioned, open rafter, half story space but you have a full stair going up to it because you
did not want to have to pull down stairs to carry boxes up for storage, where would that what
would that mean?
STEPHEN KIELY :The Building Department would still call that a third story because they use the
(inaudible) it quacks like a duck, it walks like a duck it's a duck and if it's a dedicated staircase and
just because that the building permit states people say yea we're going to keep it unfinished they
can easily slap some sheetrock up and whatever so they've taken the position that once you put
that dedicated staircase. I did argue, I said what if we put a sheetrock door to that dedicated
staircase cause I know there's some older homes that have that access to the attic or it's the
door that you walk up a dedicated staircase and I was still shot down.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So they're looking at potential intent to use.
STEPHEN KIELY : Correct similar I guess to when people have pool houses and whether they're
going to have it for sleeping purposes or garage conversion, basement conversion whatever.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Alright well I can't think of anything else at the moment. Does anybody
else have any comments or questions or anything else you'd like clarified?
MEMBER DANTES : How did they calculate that they are under the 50% as far as the ceiling
heights?
STEPHEN KIELY : If you look at A1.04 there's attic area notes beneath attic and roof plan and they
give a calculation there and then if you see the hash area which runs from one side of the house
to the other the street side to the water side there's a hashed area that goes over the staircase,
that's the area where it's going to be 7 foot 6 or above.
MEMBER DANTES : A1.04 you said?
STEPHEN KIELY : A as in apple 1.04
MEMBER DANTES : So the shaded area is the area that you're talking about?
STEPHEN KIELY : Yes.
MEMBER DANTES : And you're saying the rest of it won't meet that threshold?
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
STEPHEN KI0_:torrect so it's again
MEMBER DANTES : Which area gets sheet rocked?
STEPHEN KIELY : Well I can sheet rock the whole thing. It's the ceiling height that's controlled.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Because you know the first question I' had was, alright the plans show
in both section and ,plan non-habitable storage space so my first question was, why are we
looking at this? Then you mentioned earlier Stephen that they want to have a sitting room up
there but I didn't see any of that in any of the plans.
STEPHEN KIELY: Well because we originally proposed it as that and then we were shot down and
said no you can't have that it's a third story. You would have to'get a variance and then they said
okay we'll just make it an attic, have a pull down staircase but then my client were very adamant
that they you know would want a sitting room up there and again in my mind in my read,ing of
the code I didn't see why they couldn't and that's why we're here. So we got the Building
Department
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :You had two choices, you could either have come to us for a variance
I mean things got changed back and forth. I mean first you were going to try for the variance but
then decided never mind we want to start building so we'll go ahead and get rid of this you know
do a pull down stair. What I'm looking at here though is not a pull down stair.
STEPHEN KIELY : I'm sorry you broke up when you
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I'm not looking at a pull down stair in the plan so you know I want to
just make sure that the plans that are in front of us are what it is you're looking to achieve or are
these the plans you submitted in order to get your building permit without a variance.
STEPHEN KIELY : Yea cause the Plans Examiner did, he took a red pen and crossed out the
dedicated staircase and said pull down only.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright, so then you put down pull 'down and non-habitable storage
on the plans to get the building permit?
STEPHEN KIELY : No, no, no so we always had the dedicated staircase to the unfinished storage
after initial conversations with the Building Department before we submitted the building permit
application. So knowing that we couldn't get anything habitable up-there we did the unfinished
storage with the dedicated staircase cause the question really didn't come up about the
dedicated staircase in the initial conversations.'So then when we resubmitted with the dedicated
staircase they accepted it but then I believe it was Damon crossed out the dedicated on the file
copy and that was what was controlling. So we didn't resubmit after that. What's controlling is
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
-that exed out pull down staircase. So then we came back with the original plan and said no we
want dedicated so without the cross out and that's when I got the Notice of Disapproval that said
it's a third story.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay it's like who's on first.
MEMBER DANTES : So I-have another question Leslie, so in the area that's not shaded what's the
ceiling height? I'm trying to find it on the plans.'
STEPHEN KIELY : I'm deferring to the architect on that and they said it s.5 or greater but less than
7.6. 1 can get that information for you I don't have it.
MEMBER DANTES : Okay, I can't find it on the plan.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :That's why I kept looking at the plans to see what was (inaudible)with
what we're discussing and that's where it got a little confusing so
STEPHEN KIELY : I'll get you those ceiling heights. I can email it to you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay that's fine. Alright anything from anybody else?
T. A. DUFFY : Leslie if I could just regardless Stephen regardless of our determination here if we
found in your favor and agree with your interpretation of the code do you still have to go back to
the Building Department and change it to habitable space now if it's going to be a sitting room?
STEPHEN KIELY : Yea I guess we would amend the plans to put habitable and resubmit with the
interpretation.
T. A. DUFFY : Right.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay are we ready to close?
T.A. DUFFY: It sounded like Eric still has some questions, maybe we can get some maybe a writing
from the Architect about the dimensions (inaudible) for 50%.
STEPHEN KIELY : Absolutely. I'll have him clarify his notes on A1.04 made crystal clear.
T. A. DUFFY': Right thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Any other requests from the Board?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Stephen just a point of clarification, on the attic detail the sheet that
we've been talking about A1.04 the shaded area is in this particular application where-you would
like to have habitable space so basically it runs perpendicular to the water with what would be
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
the smaller of the three dormer rather three waterside windows. The double dormer would not
be habitable?
MEMBER DANTES : No he's making the whole thing habitable, he's just saying this is how he fits
in to the definition of a half story.
STEPHEN KIELY : No, no, no I'm not necessarily making it habitable, we're sheet rocking
everything but obviously you will have more clarity when I get you the dimensions but you know
obviously the ceiling height doesn't allow for it to be habitable in those areas. It might be sheet
rocked
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : But then would that area be typically closed off as you're suggesting if
the code if this is discovered from an interpretation to meet your requirements. So that would
be closed off that section with the four dormers,two facing water,two facing the street frontage?
STEPHEN KIELY : I'll get clarity on that for you. I don't know off(inaudible). Again the purpose is
really to utilize the shaded area.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : And you also had stated that the applicant wants to utilize that space
to take advantage of the water view and it would seem that that's the single smallest window.
STEPHEN KIELY : I guess that's listen I can't tell them where they would want to sit but that's
where they're going to have the ceiling height but again I'm hoping to satiate all your concerns
with the writing from the architect and I will seek clarification from my client as to his full
intended use of that entire area and we'll let you know.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO :Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright so then are we ready, I'm going to make a motion to close this
hearing subject to receipt of additional architectural calculations and a statement of intent for
use. Is that about right?
BOARD SECRETARY : I don't see anybody's hand raised so I think we're good.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright is there a second on my motion?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Seconded by Member Planamento.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Kim will you call the roll please.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora how do you vote?
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye. -
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora votes aye. Member Dantes how do you vote?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Dantes votes aye. Member Lehnert how do you vote?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Lehnert votes aye. Member Planamento how do you vote?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Planamento votes aye. Chairperson Weisman how do you vote?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Chairperson Weisman votes aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Motion carries unanimously, thank you Steve.
STEPHEN KIELY : Thank you everyone, stay safe.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Closed subject to receipt of architectural calculations and (inaudible)
of intent as to use.
HEARING#7419— BARBARA J. COHEN
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Good afternoon. This application is Barbara Cohen #7419. A request
for a variance from Article XXII Section 280-105C(3) and the Building Inspector's June 5, 2020
Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a permit to construct a deer fence at 1) more
than the code permitted maximum four (4) feet in height when located in the front yard located
at 3100 Indian Neck Lane in Peconic. Just so you know Ms. Cohen we've all been out and
inspected the property, driven around the neighborhood so we're familiar with what everything
looks like, where the landscaping is, where the screening is and so on and we've read your
application thoroughly but why don't you enter into the record why it is that you're requesting
an 8 foot high deer fencing.
BARBARA COHEN : Thank you. So my name is Barbara Cohen I'm the applicant, resident and
owner at 3100 Indian Neck Lane. I'm joined with Danielle Leon who is also a co-owner and will
lead the growing operation that has been described in the description and I also have Brent
Robertson with me a Greenport resident a member of the Southold Economic Development
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
Committee and President�of'-North Fork Authentic which promotes north fork products and
services.The purposes of the fencing at the side is essentially to allow for the transition from the
informal growing activities that we have been doing for years into a viable commercial business.
The fencing generally follows the properties boundary line starting at the northeast and runs
along Indian Neck Lane hidden by all the dense plantings that are there. Then on the southern
portion there's intentional 35 foot setback which'will allow the deer migration to continue to
function as it has and then it goes up and faces Leslie Rd.with also a large setback from Leslie Rd.
and then comes around the shed and to the north densely planted boundary at the north end.
The site itself as you know is an irregular shaped non-conforming lot with two front yards within
the R80 zoning district. The house and the shed only occupy about three and a half percent of
the lot area. It's located really at the northern part of the property which allows all the workable
open space that remains on the site. As for the front yards they really function I would say side
yards as the house doesn't face Indian Neck nor does it face Leslie Rd. and that's really how the
property is perceived. The surrounding area the proposed fence consistent with the history of
use of the property and the space and the large lots in the agricultural uses in the surrounding
area. I also believe with the single fencing it would also improve the look of the property as it
replaces the individual sort of fenced in plantings. Finally we don't believe the fencing will have
any adverse impacts as the deer movement remains unchanged and the visual impacts are
minimal with mature plantings that are on the site along Indian Neck and certainly the tree line
that we're using facing Leslie Rd. and that large visual setback from Leslie'Rd. again no adverse
impacts and without the fencing it would be impossible to launch a new business and we hope
the Board could provide us the opportunity. I'd like to just turn to Danielle to provide a little
insight into the dynamics of the new business and then onto Brent to say a few words about how
North Fork Authentic can provide the marketing support for the product and then answer any
questions. So Danielle are you on?
BOARD SECRETARY : Ask her to unmute.
ALAN BELNIAK : She has to press *9 because she is using her phone. She just raised her hand so
Danielle we sent one more command to you to unmute if you can hear us *9. So Danielle we
can't hear you at the moment. Zoom is showing us that you're still muting. One other option for
you and time is of the essence is if you have the Zoom App on a mobile phone you can try
connecting that way but once more try *9 to unmute your,phone and we'll see if that works. I'm
sorry my mistake Danielle, *9 raises your hand. Please press *6.
DANIELLE LEON : Alright,thank you. I can be heard yes?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
DANIELLUEON :Good morning. My name is Danielle Leon. I am a photo stylist ancl_a_vad gardener,
spinner and dyer of wool fibers. 3100 Indian Neck Lane is a parcel of land that has been previously
used to produce (inaudible) crop and ornamental plants. The previous owner Judy (inaudible)
also known as Judy (inaudible) was a landscape designer of local refute. She managed the
property with a variety of unusual and hard to find plants. As co-owner of 3100 Indian Neck Lane
I have continued and added to Judy's legacy. 3100 Indian Neck Lane is well suited to the
propagation and growing of specialized hard to find seeds and woody peonies. I've had good
success growing nearly thirty unique varieties of wood peonies from seed planted three years
ago. Each seed growing woody peonies is unique as it is not a clone or a graft. I also grow a variety
of plants for both seed production and a harvesting of natural colored dyes.The plants for natural
dye would be sold in the form of seeds, buds, leaves and root stock. It is my hope to join with all
sheep farming communities as they provide the fleece to be dyed and spun. As a knitter and a
person who spins her own wool I believe that I can create a market for natural dyed and spun
Long Island wool. I manage a small (inaudible) but (inaudible) for growth now needed. There is a
market for specialty hard to find authentic seeds. (inaudible) customers will appreciate our
unique and heirloom varieties. When you open my packet you're going to get the seed that you
paid for. 3100 Farm is not looking to a high volume producer but rather offer unique quality
products grown with environmental sensitivity and sustainable practices. With the proposed
fencing we can balance the need to manage pests and grow our goods in a natural way pesticide
free. Our seed will be organic and with the inherit unique method of our seed grown wood
peonies we hope to build a healthy sustainable client base. Thank you for listening.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you for your comments and your explanation. Did you want to
have Brent speak next before we ask questions?
BRENT ROBERTSON : Hi can you hear me?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes we can.
BRENT ROBERTSON : Okay great. I've been watching just in the background here. My name is
Brent Robertson I'm the President of North Fork Authentic which is the recently large home
grown regional umbrella brand of the North Fork. Our mission is to empower growers, harvesters
and producers to grow and thrive through connection, collaboration, innovation and
communications. North Fork Authentic is an economic development platform. We work with
producers and partners in the supply chain to develop programs and products, expand markets
and streamline logistics while promoting the region for sustainability. Our objectives are to
increase awareness, value and demand for North Fork goods to drive the local economy and
create jobs for the community. We are in discussions with Barbara and Danielle to market and
sell their goods and possibly launch under the North Fork Authentic brand in addition to their
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
own brand. We believe there is a void in the marketplace to provide multiple audiences unique
authentic heirloom specialty seeds and tree peonies grown in the North Fork. That's it for me.
BARBARA COHEN : Very good thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I'd like to ask this question, are you currently growing varieties that
produce the seeds that you're proposing to market?
DANIELLE LEON : Yes apparently I have thirty one tree peonies each one is unique to the wool
that I've started growing three years ago. Last Monday I planted another sixty pots, each pot
contains about ten tree peonies. Not everyone will come up but the ones that do come up will
be unique in the world and that's what makes them because they're open pollinated so that's
what makes them most sought after. It takes about four to five years for the first bloom to appear
and the (inaudible) is that because they are unique buyers want them because you're having
something unique in your garden,you also have an opportunity to name that peony. So the older
the peony gets the more valuable it is. Also as you see I have many dye seeds going in the garden
and actually I am working on a series of sort of a white garden so all the seeds will be from plants
that are white flowered seeds. I don•'t know does that answer?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Well can you just explain to the Board a little bit so it's already ongoing
but these are clearly specimen plants and the seeds are coming from the plants themselves is
that the thing or
DANIELLE LEON :Well initially when I first started I got seeds from the outside and I also gathered
seeds that were here because Judy did have some tree peonies here and I'm also a member of
615 Green Community Garden in the city. I've been a member of that garden for about almost
twenty years and I have my own allotment and-there I've also gathered my'own seeds. For the
tree peony seeds I don't know if I'm answering your question actually,the tree peony-seeds that
I planted are things that I've gathered and put in the ground myself and raised myself.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I guess what I'm getting at sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you.
DANIELLE LEON : I was just going to say that at the moment I have thirty one tree peonies that
are about three years old.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :And they are planted on the subject property?
DANIELLE LEON : Yes they are, they are scattered all over and mostly they all have some sort of
a topper on top of them or they're inside a fenced area because you know I can't have anything
trample on them.
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'Regular Meeting September 3; 2020
CHAIRPERSON WE4SMAN :That's what I'm getting at,this deer fencing is being proposed because
it's essential to preserve and protect from deer infestation. The deer eat these I take it or they
trample on them?
DANIELLE LEON :The deer will eat anything. They're not supposed to eat tree peonies but they'll
eat anything. But what they will do is they'll trample on them or they'll clean you know their
antlers you know because they're branchy sort of bushy kind of plants. They're not like your
(inaudible) peonies these are like shrubs and so they'll clean their antlers with you know they'll
just
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea okay that's what I really wanted to know. I think Barbara you
wanted to say something.
BARBARA COHEN : Well I just wanted to make the point that it has been started and that the key
to having the fencing and the importance of the fencing is to be able to expand the growing and
to make that transition into a viable commercial business. I will also add that there is a full
inventory of seeds that have been gathered over many years of I mean we've been at the
property since 2009 so you know it's been working for many years.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay that's what I wanted to know about because what we're looking
it is agricultural production so I'm trying to establish in the record that in fact the property is.
being "farmed", farming is a very broad definition out here.
DANIELLE LEON : I can tell you that I've actually plotted it out. I can grow about three hundred
tree peonies in a sort of a seventeen and I've thought about it so that it wouldn't impact the
neighborhood. I can do it in a sort of a garden like it would "garden like" layout about seventeen
by six per plot and within that I can have ten to eleven tree peonies so it would sort of a
meandering kind of I can do it in a way that it will not be disruptive to the eye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So in other words you can plant this as a sort of visual residential
garden.
BRENT ROBERTSON : Yes, low impact.
DANIELLE LEON : Yes
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay well that helps. I don't have any questions. Does anybody else
on the Board have any questions here, Pat anything from you?
MEMBER ACAMPORA:Yes, I was wondering on the survey that we have the entry gates,will they
will you require them to also be high?
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
BARBARA COHEN : Well it has to be you know consistent with the fencing itself. We'would
certainly look to choose a design that you know is not it's consistent with the type of house it is
and you now not to make it look like some estate mansion or anything like that but we you know
obviously it has to be a certain height so that they don't jump over.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : You told us that'on the plan for where the fence will be on the southern
portion you have a three foot gate. Don't you think that will be problematic?,
,BARBARA COHEN :Three foot I think
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Or is it three foot wide?
r
BARBARA COHEN : So the purpose three foot is not in reference to height, it really was about for
the width which allows you know access to exit to the south. No it's not about height it's about
width.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Okay I just wanted to clarify. Great thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything from any other Board member?
MEMBER DANTES : Yes. Can you just draw out on the survey just a planting plan like what crops
you plan on putting where?Just so we have it in-front of us.
BARBARA COHEN : We can develop a planting plan and submit that after
MEMBER DANTES : Hand drawn, you don't need to hire someone just so we have it on record.
BARBARA COHEN : Okay we can do that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Nick anything from you?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Yes, I'd like to first say that I commend your use of the property, I'm a
big supporter of all things local so please don't necessarily misunderstand the question that I'm
going to ask but I just want more clarity exactly what's going on. This is a fence around a house
but are you actually a bona fide or registered agricultural business?
BARBARA COHEN : No not at this moment. This is our intention, our intention is to do this
business as described and then you know if we can take it further to satisfy those definitions we
will but we can't (inaudible) without the fence.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : The reason why I ask this, exactly the fence is a little bit of a problem
because if,it in fact a residence is this business use a permitted use within a residence? I think
from a farm stand point you have to have a certain amount of acreage.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
BARBARA COHEN : I think;1 have to go back and check but isn't there the issue of less seven acres- fi -
and more than seven acres I mean I have to go back to the definition.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's what constitutes a bona fide AG operation, is seven acres plus
to be in an agricultural district. Deer fencing is permitted on residential property, it's permitted
as of right,on agricultural property and sometimes people have asked us well,we intent to farm
this agricultural property but we don't have crops yet because in fact it happened right in your
neighborhood because they were afraid that they wouldn't be able to maintain the crops.They're
going to invest in planting and then the deer are going to eat the crops before they can qualify as
a bona fide AG operation. So as it's a kind of chicken and egg situation.You submitted a business
plan, how long would you think this would take you to become you know to implement your
business plan how many years?
DANIELLE LEON : Well I'm going to answer that, it takes about from seed to first bloom and the
first bloom allows you to identify what it is that cause I think the money will be made from wood
peonies the other is a secondary market and very more specifically geared towards people who
actually knit and weave but the wood peony it would take from seed to first_bloom where you
can identify what it is and if it's worthy of keeping it's about five to seven years.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So this is a long term plan but you're clearly not going to be able to
implement this business proposal unless you have protection from deer damage. =
BARBARA COHEN : Yes that's true and that's just the peony you know life, there are other
opportunities to pursue.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Are there other kinds of seeds that you're planning to provide to
cultivate?
DANIELLE LEON : Yea I'm going to be growing the dahlia seeds of which French marigold,
(inaudible) indigo, golden (inaudible), queen Anne's leaf all of these things really need sun and
you know
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So how long before you get a crop from those plantings?
DANIELLE LEON : From those within two years I should have a nice amount yes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay cause where I'm going with this is,what we have done previously
is said alright if you're intent is to farm this is farming and we're assured that it is we're trying to
find out how long it would take,for you to be a viable agricultural production because we can
condition an approval based upon ,submission of you know a business of.some sort some
documentation that says yes we are in business we are actively selling you know things we've
grown and so if and it doesn't have to be everything you're going to grow over time. So you know
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
deer will trample on anything they certainly will,they might not like marigolds but there's plenty
-of other things you mentioned that they eat.
BARBARA COHEN : That makes total sense, I mean cause we're not coming with something
already in operation and fence is already built. We're here proposing the intention and
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : and you're not going to be big enough to go for an AG exemption and
all that kind of thing. So we have to look at this that's why we look at them as case by case. It's
not generic,we have to be site specific so each application has got its own characteristics. I think
I have the answers I need, Nick how about you?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Just one last question, do you know whether or not the deer fence at
Raphael Vineyard is temporary or not? It looks temporary, I don't see posts supporting it.
DANIELLE LEON :They take that deer fence on and off during the year the farming season. It goes
up I think at the very beginning in the spring when everything is tender and then they take it
down but I have to tell you the deer jump over that fence no problem.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea they will.
BARBARA COHEN : They also I think they cover the grapes with netting as well I think.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Right (inaudible) birds.
BARBARA COHEN : Yea I guess they figured out the system (inaudible) wine and grapes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The take away from this is farming is a challenge. Okay anything from
anybody, if not I'm going to close this hearing. I'm not hearing anything else from anybody so
you're okay with us putting a sort of time frame of say three years by which time you will submit
additional documentation as to your business operation does that make sense?
BARBARA COHEN : Yea sure.
DANIELLE LEON :Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What else did I just say we were going to get? Eric you-wanted some
sort of diagram of the plantings.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Planting diagram.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :You submitted what Judy(inaudible) had done who I know by the way
but you know give us a little overview of what you're proposed planting scheme might be. So I'm
going to make a motion to close this hearing subject to receipt of that planting scheme.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
DANIELLE LEON : Chairwoman I'm sorry I just thought of something, I'm wondering if we can have
an extension of one year because we have to get that it's already September and we've got to
get that fence up before we do anything and that fence I don't know if we can get that fence up
between now and springtime so is it possible to just have another extension of one year?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh you mean in terms of when you put it up?
DANIELLE COHEN : No in terms of from the point of getting it up. We want to put it up as soon as
possible but it is we're coming at the end of the year of the season and you know I don't know
what the fence people if they'll be able to slot us in.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Well here's what the Zoning Board does,the Zoning Board has to write
up a determination a decision and then.vote on it.Then I have to go and sign it and we file it with
the Clerk, we send a copy to you, you go to the Building Department you get a building permit
that's how that works. We will have that decision how long can you just sketch out something in
the next couple-of days?
DANIELLE LEON :Yes I can.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We'll have a decision in two weeks. You will be able to go to the
Building Department then cause we can only vote at a meeting and the next meeting is in two
weeks.So we'll write up the decision,we'll vote on it,get us in that little overview of your planting
plan and how it works with our business plan and we'll have something written up within two
weeks for you.
BARBARA COHEN : I think what Danielle was referring to is to add a year to the three year
condition to come back in the fourth year I think that's what
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's fine. That wasn't clear that's fine. We'll make it four years
alright does that work for you?
BARBARA COHEN :That's fine.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright, anything from anybody else? I'm going to make a motion to
close the hearing subject to receipt of a business planting plan for seed production is there a
second?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Seconded by Member Acampora, Kim could you come back and call
the roll.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora how do you vote?
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Regular Meeting September-3, 2020
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora votes aye. Member Dantes how do you vote?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Dantes votes aye. Member Lehnert how do you vote?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Lehnert votes aye. Member Planamento how do you vote?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Planamento votes aye. Chairperson Weisman how do you vote?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Chairperson Weisman votes aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Motion carries unanimously. We'll have a decision in two weeks.
DANIELLE LEON :Thank you very much.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Good luck with your business it sounds very exciting.
HEARING#7422—DAVID and JENNIFER COLLINS
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN:Welcome this afternoon to the meeting of September 3rd of the Board
of Appeals.Just to let you know that I have to make a few introductory remarks that are pertinent
to how we're operating on this Zoom platform and our secretary Liz Sakarellos is going to follow
my comments with some instructions on how to participate in the Zoom meeting. Pursuant to
New York Governor Andrew Cuomo's executive order 202.1, in person access by the public to
town hall buildings is not permitted at this time due to public health and safety concerns related
to COVID-19. So to let you know today's hearing public hearings during these hearings the
applicants or their agents will be testifying before the Board. The public will have an opportunity
to see and hear the proceedings live. Interested persons will be given an opportunity to speak if
they wish during a hearing. The meeting is being recorded and it will be available for viewing at
a later date along with a transcript. Liz would you, please review for everyone the particular
format to use for participation.
OFFICE ASSISTANT SAKARELLOS : Thank you Leslie. Good afternoon everyone, just to let you
know as Leslie said this is being recorded and if anyone wishes to comment on a particular
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
application we ask that you just send us a-quick note via the Q&A tool at the bottom of your
screen or you can just click the raise hand button and we will quickly allow you to unmute and
you can let us know which application you are here for.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let me read into the record the application that you're here for. David
and Jennifer Collins#7422. This is a request for a variance from Article XXIII Section 280-124 and
the Building Inspector's June 16, 2020 Notice of Disapproval based on an application to construct
a front porch addition to an existing single family dwelling at 1) located less than the code
required front yard setback of 40 feet located at 6685 Oregon Rd. in Cutchogue. For a front porch
addition to a single family dwelling with a 30.7 foot front yard setback the code requires a
minimum of 40 feet. This is an open porch. Mr. Portillo would you like to say something about
this application?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Yes thank you Chairwoman. Hi Board how are you? Hope everyone is
comfortable at home or wherever you might be.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN We'd rather be back to normal but what the heck at least we're
conducting business.
ANTHONY PORTILLO :Thank God. So we are requesting for a 6 foot wide porch off of the front of
the home basically spanning across the front of the home. The existing home is already
encroaching over the front yard setback and that is basically about 3.3 feet over the front yard
setback existing. Like I said the porch would then increase that to another 6 feet so you'd be 30.7
feet off of the property line. The front porch really aesthetically is like for a ranch style farm
home. I think it definitely fits into the aesthetic of the neighborhood which basically surrounding
the home is all farmland. There is a home across the street which actually received'a front yard
variance back in '63. They'were approved for a 32 feet off their property line for an addition and
just for the record that's#578 and again they were approved back in '63 but they are encroaching
as well. I think these homes were just build a little bit closer to the street at the time of when
they were constructed. Again on the porch I just want to say to the Board that we really did try
to keep it just the minimum size that we would need to like fit you know a couple of chairs out
there or maybe a bench or something along those lines and a small table. I don't think we really
were going to excessive you know with the width of it, 6 feet is really like the minimum size just
to get some furniture on there and sit out there. That's basically what the owners are looking to
do just have a place to drink coffee in the morning. They currently don't have anything but a
stoop off the side of the house so we would be removing that stoop and sort of creating this
porch. It also will serve as the entry way into the side entry of the home.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
'- CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Just so you know we've all inspected`#he property, we've been out
there and looked at the neighborhood and saw the home in its current state. Let's see if anyone
has questions, Pat we'll start with you.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric
MEMBER DANTES : Not at this time.
J
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Nick.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : No questions just a comment and I appreciate what you said about a 6
foot wide porch. I would argue it's the bare minimum. I would have preferred to see a deeper
porch but I'm glad that you're you know honoring or trying as best to honor your setbacks so
thank you.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Are you still going to enter from the side?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Yes ma'am.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Maintain that entry?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Yes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Rob anything from you?
MEMBER LEHNERT : No, no questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay, would Ms. Collins want to say anything or is she just listening
in? She's able to speak if she unmutes herself if she wants to say anything.
MS. COLLINS :Thank you very much. I don't have anything else to add thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Just wanted to give you a chance in case you wanted to alright. Okay
well that one was easy. Hearing, no further questions or comments you cited one prior it's not
quite it's 32 feet you said, do you happen to know the date of that in 1963?
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Yes it was 6/20/63
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : 6/20/63 thank you. Alright I'm going to make a motion to close the
hearing reserve decision to a later date, is there a second?
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MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor oh I'm sorry Kim would you call the voice vote please.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora how do you vote?
MEMBER ACAMPORA :Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora votes aye. Member Dantes how do you vote?
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Dantes votes aye. Member Lehnert how do you vote?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Lehnert votes aye. Member Planamento how do you vote?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Planamento votes aye. Chairperson Weisman how do you vote?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Chairperson Weisman votes aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Motion carries unanimously. We'll have a decision in two weeks.
ANTHONY PORTILLO : Thank you Board have a great day.
HEARING#7417 ᳺ—GAIL BARLOW and CHARLES SQUIRE
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I'll read them both into the record at the same time and open them
together. Gail Barlow and Charles Squire #7417 request for a variance from Article XXIII,Section
280-121A and the Building Inspector's February 5, 2020 Notice of Disapproval based on an
application to construct additions and alterations to an existing non-conforming accessory garage
at 1) located in other than the rear yard located at 3480 Orchard Street and then the other one
is Gail Barlow, Charles Squire#7418.This is a Use variance, request for a Use variance from Article
III Section 280-13C and the Building Inspector's February 5, 2020 Notice of Disapproval based on
an application to construct additions and alterations to an existing non-conforming accessory
garage to be converted into habitable space at 1) proposed improvement does not constitute a
permitted accessory use at 3480 Orchard Street in Orient. Is Mr. Steisel here?
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
'`DIEGO STEISEL : I am here.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. This is a legally existing two car accessory garage and it's in the
side yard. You want to add utilities, sink, hot water,�heater and change the stair to go up to a
second floor with a half bath which is already there, new second floor deck used as a family study
which is not a permitted use. Therefore one is a variance for the location, the other is a use
variance because it's not permitted by code as a study: Mostly what's permitted in a garage
accessory garage is storage.Just so you know we've all been out to the property and inspected it
and driven around the neighborhood and so what would you like to tell us?
DIEGO STEISEL : In terms of the first variance which would be the area variance is 7417, 1 took a
look around the neighborhood as well. I've seen various other homes in the,area with similar
detached structures that exist in their side yards and I understand here-we're asking to alter that
structure but it is in conformance with the neighbor of within the character of the existing
neighborhood. One thingthat struck me in looking and doing all this research and lookingthrough
the C.O.'s is that this house or the detached accessory structure is C.O.'d as an attached garage
not a detached structure so both in its original C.O. from. 1988 and then in an alteration
application and a C.O. for that which is from 2006. So on both those documents the garage is
referred to as an attached garage not detached. So I think that's important to note because,if the
Board does grant this relief that we're requesting I don't know that it's really setting a precedence
because it's although it appears as a detached structure it's C.O.'d as attached. The proposed
work that we're seeking is the alteration on the second floor, you already described what we're
looking to do replacing windows, dormer in part of the roof just for head height. We're not
looking to increase the footprint of the structure other than obviously adding that exterior deck.
It's going to be open to the sky, it's not roofed over in any way. The use that they're looking to
convert this to, is just for their own private study. Due to this COVID-19 situation that we're all
dealing with the homeowner has this space that's not utilized in the least and they'd like to be
able to use it just as a private study for themselves just to have a little extra room because as you
know right now everybody's just trying to work from home and trying to make the best of it and
they just don't have the room.Their existing house is quite small, it's a two bedroom single story
ranch and so they just don't have the space within their house for this new need so they have
this space. It's approximately 586 sq. ft. that's the second floor of this garage area and they'd
love to utilize that space. Not for sleeping, not for cooking, not for accessory apartment nothing
of that nature just simply as a space where they can just have as a study so they can do what they
need to do. That's it I think that's all I can add to this application at this moment.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well I'm interested about the fact that it's got a C.O. as an attached
garage.
DIEGO STEISEL : It does.
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CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What would make how would that work? How is it attached there's a
breezeway?
DIEGO STEISEL :There is no breezeway.There's a deck that attached and it's connected from the
house. I'm looking at it here I have it in front of my hands right here, the description so this one
is dated March 18, 1988 and that description is and this is the C.O. that I'm reading off of, it says
one family dwelling, decks, attached garage with shop over wood stove in dwelling.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So they're saying that the attached deck that's attached to the garage
and the dwelling is sufficient to call it an attached garage.
DIEGO STEISEL : Maybe so and then in 2006 in August 3, 2006 they issued a C.O. for alteration
work that they had done to that particular structure and the description on that C.O. reads,
alteration to an existing attached garage for an existing single family dwelling as applied for as
built. So both these documents the original from 1988 and this one from 2006 both refer to the
structure as attached which kind of throws me off with this but I think that's important to note
that it's a little different than asking for a use variance for a detached structure because according
to these two C.O.'s the town doesn't consider it a detached structure.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's why you're absolutely right it is important because essentially
a use variance even though they say it's not a permitted use one would logically say oh then it
needs a use variance but a use variance is really something that has to do with the fact that
something is not permitted in that zone district and so the standards there are economic hardship
like you know for every use that that zone permits you can't realize a profit, you can't realize a
reasonable return.Those standards really would be pretty darn next to impossible to meet in this
particular instance in this application. Now if something is considered an attached garage
habitable space is usually permitted.
DIEGO STEISEL : Correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's the detached garage that is usually just storage, so we have a
strange hybrid situation here.
DIEGO STEISEL : I don't know if you can see obviously I can see you I don't know if you can see
me.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I can't see you but if you are on a computer or a phone you can I can
see you if you start the if you open up your video.
DIEGO STEISEL : I'm on my IPad so
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN You should be able to then. You have to hit join`with video or
something. There you go.
DIEGO STEISEL : So you couldn't see me?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No but we heard you very clearly.
DIEGO STEISEL : I'm holding up here I don't know if you could read that from where you are, this
is a Certificate of Occupancy.
BOARD ASSISTANT : We have that.
MEMBER LEHNERT :There's two of them that say attached garage.
DIEGO STEISEL : Right this is the one I'm showing now is the original from 1988 and I don't know
if you could read that
MEMBER DANTES : Does the town have the original set of drawings on file?'88'they might.
DIEGO STEISEL : Yes because I have a copy that came from there which is also in the packet.
MEMBER DANTES : Is what's there consistent with the original drawings?
DIEGO STEISEL : Yes, I'm going to flip to it now.
BOARD ASSISTANT: I have something here too. l have something that coincides with the 1988 C.
of 0. which says garage/shop over. So I believe this is consistent with that.
MEMBER DANTES : If it's an attached garage the office is permitted right?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : If it's an attached structure attached to the dwelling then it is not an
accessory structure. Home office is not permitted in an accessory structure but if its attached and
you know usually they are attached by like the second floor or they're attached side by side and
not by a deck but this is a one story house and a,two story garage so attaching it at the second
story is very difficult. Sometimes it's attached with conditioned space from the house to the
garage. It could be an enclosed breezeway that's conditioned then that is considered a legal
attachment. So I don't know why a deck suddenly makes it attached but the town records
indicate that it is attached.
DIEGO STEISEL : We did consider I did bring up that to the homeowners letting them know that
maybe if we just add to the scope of this work and propose a breezeway that then this issue
maybe not be such an issue but that happens to be the side of the house that has the bedrooms
so adding a breezeway as-you're looking at the house the right side of the house is the bedrooms
adding a breezeway there would mean having to create a hallway, reduce the bedroom size-and
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
m it's already a small two bedroom house. Also it just isn't feasible to connect it on that side of the
house unfortunately but again I just kept going back from day one when the homeowner shared
with me their C.O.'s it just seemed like it seemed confusing and it did seem like some sort of
hybrid like you mentioned but I couldn't find any verbiage of this being a detached structure an
accessory structure.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's what's so strange. See if it was attached it would not be
considered a side yard in the side yard.
MEMBER LEHNERT : If it was attached he wouldn't even be here.
DIEGO STEISEL : That's correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : From the use point of view it wouldn't be here if it was attached but
from the area variance if it's attached then it's not in the side yard, it's attached.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Correct if it was attached he wouldn't even be here.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So which one is it? So both the use variance and the area variance
standards are camouflaged let's say or at least confused or conflicted with the fact that the C.O.'s
are talking about it as an attached garage.
MEMBER LEHNERT : And they did that twice over time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No small challenge the Zoning Board has. Bill are you there can you
hear us?
T. A. DUFFY : I'm here.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Have you heard what we've just been talking about?
T. A. DUFFY : Yes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So we have a so called attached garage, a garage in two C.O.'s and a
Notice of Disapproval that says area variance for additions and alterations to a garage in a non-
conforming side yard which if it's attached is not the case and then they you know not a
permitted use in an accessory structure which if it's attached is not an accessory structure. Any
thoughts on this?
T. A. DUFFY : I think you laid'it out perfectly. If it's attached then'there's none of those variances'.
I don't know
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I mean it doesn't visually look attached if you go and look at it, a deck
is a pretty flimsy attachment.You usually think the building is attached to the other to the garage.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
MEMBER LEHNERT : I mean usually the minimal standard fo'r attachment is at least-'weather
proof.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Right and that wasn't therewith a deck so
MEMBER LEHNERT: No that was my experience.
T. A. DUFFY : Is that the Building Department making a determination that it's not attached or
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I guess they are now although the two C.O.'s on the house and on the
garage basically say attached garage.
T. A. DUFFY : I'm trying to see if we have a definition of breezeway really quick.
MEMBER DANTES :This doesn't even have a breezeway though.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :They say it's attached by a virtue of the deck which is attached to the
house and attached to the garage.
MEMBER DANTES : I mean was the definition of attached different in 1988? 1 honestly don't
know.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO :You know what I'm wondering Leslie, does this have any bearing I don't
know if this is a correct assumption but the stairwell is currently on the inside of the building to
the second floor to the shop but the proposed plan is to relocate it to the exterior which would
make that unit completely separate.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don't know.
DIEGO STEISEL : We're showing removing that interior staircase.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Correct.
DIEGO STEISEL : We were kicking that around not leaving it in if that's an issue the homeowners
would be just fine with leaving that staircase inside the way it is currently.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well I think Nick has a point. I mean it does look one of the things we
can do is simply overturn the Notice of Disapproval based upon town'building records you know
that show that determine this to be attached. I mean this is quite unusual actually I see it as an
accessory structure and obviously you did too even though you brought this up because it's not
really a part of the house and it isn't connected with conditioned space which is typically the way
you would say an accessory is attached it would be with some sort of conditioned space. You just
said the layout is unfeasible for that it's just the bedrooms are there and yes it would be way too
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
-much renovation in order to make that connection. So that's a perfectly reasonable argument
but I don't know where to go with this.
MEMBER DANTES : I'm fine overturning the Notice of Disapproval based on the C.O.'s
MEMBER LEHNERT : Yeah I'm in agreement with that.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Me too.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's the only way that I could think of.
MEMBER LEHNERT: If he didn't have the C.O. in his'hand I think it would be a completely different
animal.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Without a doubt totally without a doubt.
DIEGO STEISEL : I would even agree to that.
T. A. DUFFY : I don't think you have any other choice with the C.O.'s
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's the only way I could think of which is why I propose you know
that's the only way you'd have to withdraw the use variance well you wouldn't have to withdraw
anything we'll just overturn it. Well just say it is a permitted use the garage is attached number
one,and number two it doesn't require an area variance for the side yard because it's attached.
We just overturn you know you got two different Notices of Disapproval: We can write them
separately but with repetitive language. I wouldn't put them down as we have two different file
numbers so you know
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Wouldn't the interior stairwell need to stay then?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I would leave it there.
MEMBER LEHNERT :Yes.
DIEGO STEISEL : That's fine, that was something we were kicking around either way. We can go
either way with it leave it or not so we'll leave it in.
MEMBER DANTES : Kim can you pull the files that are in the Building Department record the floor
plans and email them to us?
BOARD ASSISTANT : Sure.
DIEGO STEISEL : This is an odd one and not only once but twice.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
CHAIRPERSON WEISMhN: I could understand in 1988 knowing who the faculty were but in 2006- V
was not that long ago. So somebody wasn't paying attention.
BOARD SECRETARY : So we don't have any more attendees so there's nobody else to speak on
this.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So Bill are you okay with us just overturning the Notices based on the
two C.O.'s?
T. A. DUFFY :Yea I think you have to.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay well the lesson here' is that when you see something that's
anomalous like that the way to go is not the standard apply for a variance and a use variance,
apply for a rescission of the Building Department's Notice of Disapproval or an overturning. We
don't really have a form for that, I think it would have to just we really don't have a form for that
so
DIEGO STEISEL : Back in January I had gone into the Building Department with my with all the
documents with the preliminary design drawings and I sat with Damon Rallis and he right away
said that this is detached and he is the one who put me through this path of going of applying
and gettingthe denial and applying forthe variances but he had seen all this then. I wish he would
have it would have saved us a whole lot of time then back in January you know not having to wait
up until this point to realize that you know this didn't I'm not complaining but we lost a lot of
time here in realizing that this part of the puzzle wasn't really required.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well the bottom line is it was in every sense looks like an accessory
structure only because the Building Department's previous determination in two instances with
Certificates of Occupancy that it is attached. That was probably the wrong call but the bottom
line is it's there and it's in the public records.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : But I still think the removal of the interior stair change the nature also
which for the Building Department it's totally a single and separate unit upstairs as proposed.
T. A. DUFFY : I don't think he can separate the upstairs from the downstairs but if they're willing
to keep it inside
DIEGO STEISEL : That's a discussion we already had so I'm confident
T. A. DUFFY : So the Board's aware this is the first time I've run into this with the Building
Department and this issue. We had Code Enforcement has gone to investigate a complaint about
maybe like I remember one instance was like a big fireplace that somebody built where the
Building Department said the setbacks didn't apply because it was attached the deck was
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
attached to the house and then attached to the fireplace so it was not you know accessory and
setbacks didn't apply and the same thing with an outdoor shower in one case so this isn't the
only time that I've seen them do this so I don't know if that makes you feel better or worse about
the situation. It seems to me that's they're normal course if a deck attaches two things then they
consider it one structure.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Well like I said they did it not once but twice.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well and here's the thing,why don't we do this, Diego can you submit
an amended I guess we need this just get rid of that exterior stair just show it as is because
otherwise they could challenge the existing Certificate of Occupancies on that garage. You know
if we started adding stuff to the outside. Now a deck is an addition nothing that says it's not
permitted if the use is permitted.
MEMBER LEHNERT : And he doesn't have to be here for the deck.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No he doesn't have to be here for the deck it just needs a permit but
the point is if you Nick was right, if you submit plans that we stamp showing an exterior stair it
would be altering the conditions under which the C.O.'s were issued and it would be better to
stamp drawings that show the second story study with the interior stair intact.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Let me ask this, as long as the interior stair is still there there's no reason he
can't have an exterior stair.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don't know about that. I don't know all I know is that the Building
Department has made some judgement calls that are confusing and I don't want to confuse it
anymore.
T. A. DUFFY : Do you want to try and get some explanation from the Building Department before
you just close and make a decision? See if they can make some sense of what they did.
MEMBER DANTES : I think we just get the floor plans to make sure it's the same floor plan that
was originally applied for the prints and it is what it is.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Yea I think this is what it is. I wouldn't push them anymore.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Diego did you submit to the Building Department the same thing you
submitted to us in the way of the proposed additions and alterations to the garage?
DIEGO STEISEL : Yes, same drawings.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay so they have they see the exterior stair?
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
DIEGO STEISEL : Yes. '
CHAIRPERSON-WEISMAN : Okay. You'can't condition an overturning. You can't condition a code
interpretation. If we're going to overturn a'Notice of Disapproval we can't have a condition on it
so what you're going to have to do is give us drawings we can stamp to be on the safe side that
don't have an exterior stair on it.
DIEGO STEISEL : Okay.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do it as an amended application that's all. Just say the Board
requested the exterior stair to be removed so that the existing structure was in conformance
with the Certificates of Occupancy that were previously issued and that all changes are to the
second floor only you know the additions the dormers you can put the deck on it but am I getting
that right Bill?
T. A. DUFFY : Yes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is everybody understanding that?We all clear about it?Cause in other
words I mean I can just say sure fine we'll just overturn it and condition it based upon the removal
of the proposed existing stairs but then we're stamping the wrong drawing number'one and
number two we can't put a condition on it.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Correct.-
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :You either uphold it or you overturn it.You can put conditions on any
relief granted but we're not granting relief. Okay so why don't we close this subject to receipt of
an amended what do we need?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Amended plans.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Site plan or
BOARD ASSISTANT : It would be more of an elevations would it not be?
CHAIRPERSON WEIMSAN : Why don't we just say amended plans just all of them.
DIEGO STEISEL : All of them so it all conforms anyway.,
MEMBER LEHNERT :Just amended plans.
DIEGO STEISEL : I'll resend you the same sheets I think is was Al, A2,A3 revised
BOARD ASSISTANT : You can send us a PDF of it right away and then hard copies following okay?
DIEGO STEISEL : I'll do that right away today. Can I ask how many hard copies?
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
BOARD SECRETARY : Two hard copies would be good.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's all because she can email them to us as long as we can see it.
She needs the one to stamp, we need the ones to say it says what we asked you too so we can
get it via email.
DIEGO STEISEL : I'll leave the interior staircase and I'll remove the'exterior staircase.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Right and amend any of the plans to show otherwise and we'll just
overturn both of those requests that's it both Notices of Disapproval. Everybody know where
we're going with this?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Yea.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The Building Department has to understand that when it creates
conflicting information everything falls between the cracks and you know if our public we just did
something that approved a waiver of merger because the town records showed that the
properties were not merged historically. Then they determined they were merged all this time
later but their own records show that they called them single and separate lots,so we overturned
it. You can't have messy town records and you know_ expect that we're going to be able to work
clearly with them. I think we're alright here.
DIEGO STEISEL:Can I ask one more question, if the homeowners want to do any future work let's
say to the house or at just whatever on the property would they be these letters you're going to
issue would they be able to in the future show them to the Building Department so this issue
doesn't keep coming up again?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don't know. All I know is what we do sets legal precedent so with
this overturning you have some basis for approaching the Building Department. '
MEMBER LEHNERT : I mean your new C.O. would still say attached garage. So you know now
you're going to have three of a kind. I think you got a pretty good hand.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Alright, so I think we're done here. I'm going to make a motion to
close the hearing subject to receipt of amended plans as per this discussion, is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : I'll second it.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Member Lehnert second Kim call the roll please.
BOARD SECRETARY : We're closing both at the same time correct?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :That's right unless you want to have two separate resolutions.
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Regular Meeting September 3, 2020
MEMBER LEHNERT : One's fine.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora how do you vote?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Acampora votes aye. Member Dantes how do you vote?
MEMBER DANTES :Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Dantes votes aye. Member Lehnert how do you vote?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Lehnert votes aye. Member Planamento how do you vote?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Member Planamento votes aye. Chairperson Weisman how do you vote?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
BOARD SECRETARY : Chairperson Weisman votes aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Motion carries both hearings are closed and as soon as we get the
plans we'll be able to get going on writing a decision. The next time we meet is when we at the
earliest date have the decision which will be September 17th about 5-o'clock our Special Meeting
where we deliberate. You're welcomed to sit in and listen via Zoom. There's no testimony taken
it's just you'll listen to us debating and making a decision. You don't have to, you can call the
office the next day and find out we'll mail you the decision anyway and I have to go in and sign it
to legalize it and then it gets filed with the Town Clerk and then staff will mail you-copies and of
course it goes to the Building Department.Thank you for your time.
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CERTIFICATION
I Elizabeth Sakarellos, certify that the foregoing transcript of tape recorded Public
Hearings was prepared using required electronic transcription equipment and is
a true and accurate record of Hearings.
Signature %juj# 942OtL
Elizabeth Sakarellos
DATE : September 16, 2020
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