HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-08/07/1991-FISOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD
FISHERS ISLAND
August 7, 1991
1:00 P.M.
A Rec~ular Meeting of the Southold Town Board was held on Wednesday,
Auc~ust 7, 1991 at Fishers Island, New York. Supervisor Harris opened the
meeting at 1:00 P.M., with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
· Present:
Absent:
Supervisor Scott L. Harris
Justice Raymond Wo Edwards
Councilwoman Ruth D. Oliva
Councilwoman Ellen M. Latson
Councilman Thomas H. Wickham
Town Clerk Judith T. Terry
Town Attorney Harvey A. Arnoff
Assistant Town Attorney Matthew G.
Councilman ~George L. Penny IV
Kiernan
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: This afternoon we have a number of representatives, as we
do every year, from State government, County government, local government,
including the Federal government. We have Congressman Hochbru~ckner's Aide.
I think Margaret's here somewhere. She's here. We have a number of people here,
and if I can just take a minute, what I'd like to do is go around the room for those
residents of Fishers Island to see those representatives that are here from the
various State agencies. It shouldn't take too long. If those who are here could
just stand up for one minute, and say, hello, and your name, and who you're
representing. I think it would beneficial to those residents on the Island to get
to know you, if they don't, and hopefully in the future if there's any problem
they can help rectify that, or resolve that situation. So, why don't I start with
Senator Ken LaValle.
SENATOR LAVALLE: I'm Senator Ken Lavalle.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Let me just first say before we finish, can we hold;~he
applause, because that would take up some time, and I know that you may have
some questions of people here, and certainly the Board, so Chief why don't you
start?
Chief George Ferrer, Shelter Island Police.
Chief Stanley Droskoski, Southoid Town
George Sullivan, Receiver of Taxes
Joe Poerio, Chief Deputy Suffolk County Comptroller, representing Joseph Caputo
Henry Barton, Suffolk County Legislator Michael Carraciolo's Aide
John McCormick, Conservation Advisory Committe, Town of Southold
Margaret O'Regan, Chief Deputy for the Department of Social Services
Robert Scott, Chairman of Board of Assessors, $outhold Town
Darlene Duffy, Southold Town Assessor
Joseph L. Monteith, Chief Inspector Suffolk County Police Department
Marge Acevdeo, Coungressman Hockbrueckner's Aide
Chris Hogan, Assistant to Suffolk County Executive Halpin
Victor Lessard, Building Inspector for Southold Building Department
Officer Muhall, Suffolk County Probation Department
Officer Whittington, Suffolk County Probation Department
Jim Bunchuck, Assistant Superintendent of P~b~ic Works
Charles Crump, Suffolk County Director of Real Property Tax Service
George Hubbard, representing Suffolk County Clerk Edward Romaine
Donald Pagel, representing the New York State Transportation Department
Tom Williams, Suffolk County Probation Department
Maureen Davidson, New York State DEC Department of Shellfishery
William Hastback, DEC, Bureau of Shellfishery
George Stadnick, New York State DEC
Kevin DuBois, New York State DEC
Bruce Loucka, Southold Town Conservation Advisory Committee
George Volkman, Suffolk County Department of Public Works
James Bagg, Suffolk County Department of Planning
Roger Meeker, Suffolk County Department of Public Works
Dennis Mahran, Suffolk County Department of Health Services
AUGUST 7, 1991
Ray Cowan, Regional Director for New York State DEC
JoAnne Malecki, District Director of New York State Department of Motor Vehicles
Ritchie Latham, member of Southold Town Planning Board
Arthur Sniffin, New York State Local Government Records Bureau
John Cushman, Southold Town Accounting Department
Robert A. Villa, $oUthold Town Zoning I~oard of Appeals
James Dinizio, Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: I'd also like to recognize at this, my secretary, Paddy
Soito, who helped keep this all together and arranged this trip. I know it was
a lot of work for her, and her staff, and the custodian staff in the Town, that
helped put the food on, and also, Ray, thank you for the sandwiches, which you
donated. That was very nice. It was a lot of work~ and I can tell you I hope
it's beneficial to those residents on the Island.
TOWN CLERK TERRY: I'd like to introduce Linda Cooper, an able clerk in my
deparment. Linda brought over all your conservation licenses for Judge Edwards.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: The first order of business, that we'd like to get into,
is normally at the Town Board meetings, this is the public sector where we talk
about resolutions, that we'll enacting in the next few minutes. Being that we only
have a few in front of us to do today, I'd like to recognize Past-President Speedy
Mettler, who is the Fishers Island Civic Association's outgoing President for an
introduction. Speedy?
SPEEDY METTLER: Thank you, Scott. I'd just like to introduce for all of our
visitors, the new President of the Civ~ic Association, Carol Ridgway, and Vice-
President Arthur Walsh, and they will be people you'll be dealing with in at least
the next year, probably longer.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you. Congratulations. Getting back to the regular
order of business, I need a motion to approve the minutes of July 30, 1991, Southold
Town Board meeting.
Moved by Councilwoman Oliva, seconded by Councilwoman Latson, it was
RESOLVED that the minutes of the Town Board meetinc~ of July 30, 1991, be and
hereby approved.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Wickham, Councilwoman Latson,
Councilwoman Oliva, Justice Edwards, Supervisor Harris.
This resolution was declared duly ADOPTED.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: We need a motion setting August 13, 1991, 4:00 o'clock
P.M., the next Southold Town Board meeting.
Moved by Councilwoman Latson, seconded by Councilwoman Oliva, it was
RESOLVED that the next meeting of the Southold Town Board will be held at 4:00
P.M., on August 13, 1991, at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, New
York.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Wickham, Councilwoman Latson,
Councilwoman Oliva, Justice Edwards, Supervisor Harris.
This resolution was declared duly ADOPTED.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: That is, believe it or not, the order of business, that
we have to transact for the beginning of this meeting. At this time, which is
probably the most important part of our coming here, is to discuss issues that
you have, certain things that you'd like to know about. There's enough people
in the room that could answer questions, that you may have, or come to a resolve
on problem areas, that maybe you've been dealing with in the last few weeks, or
so, or months. At this time, I would like to recognize anyone from the floor.
JUSTICE EDWARDS: Scott, I'd like to make one comment. I want to thank all
the people who were down there at the ferry, when it came in. It was very nice
to see all those cars lined up for the people to have the tour, which I know they
appreciated, and to be brought up to the Village museum, and here to the Legion.
Thank you, again, very much.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: I'd like to tell you that one issue, that the Town Board
has been working on at your request through your representative. Judge Edwards
came to us a couple of weeks ago, and said you had a problem over here with
zoning in reference to a motel or hotel site, that existed on the island, or possibly
was going to exist. The Town Board has taken positive steps, not only for the
people on Fishers Island, but also for the Town as a whole, and we are in the
process of changing that zoning regulations now, from one acre to three acres for
AUGUST 7, 1991
a hotel site based on the recommendations that you have come up with on the island,
and also, recommendations from the Town Board. We're moving in the that direction.
We're going to have a Local Law change in effect very shortly, we hope. At
the next Town Board meeting, the 13th, we will be having a public hearing on
that issue, and at that time. It will hopefully be enacted, and then sent to the
Secretary of State, and after that it will become law. So, I hope that issue will
help resolve some problems you have over here. I iust wanted to let you know,
that was one thing, that we had just worked on recently at your request.
PEGGY CLAVIN: Scott, could you give us a brief report on the status
of garbage over on the Town of Southold. We had an update at our meeting last
Saturday, but what's going on in town as far as the garbage problem?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Okay. I'll recognize Tom Wickham to start off with, who
is the Chairman of the Solid Waste Task Force of Southold Town, and he can give
you a brief overview of what's happening with solid waste. Tom?
COUNCILMAN WICKHAM: I'll just make some very general comments, and if anyone
else can add to that. Since we met here last year, the Town of Southold has adopted
a Solid Waste Management Plan. That plan calls for the basic..the centerpiece of
that plan calls for recycling, or reusing, or in some sense using in a useful fashion
70%o to 75% of our total waste stream. That means that only some 25% or 30% would
be regarded as residue garbage, that would have to be dealt with. What to do
with that 25% or 30% is the key question, because that is the portion for which
major costs are largely expected. If we had to ship it, if we had to incinerate,
if we had to compost it, if we have to landfill it, almost respective of the technology,
it seems that the costs are on the order of $100.00 per ton to deal with it. There's
some slight differences between them, and we think that landfilling with a double
lined land cell would probably be the ~cheapest, but basically that cost is a major
issue, and one we're dealing with, and are quite concerned about within the town,
and it will cost quite a bit of money. Similarly, capping and closing the old landfill,
which certainly will be for a situation that we're faced with in the future, will be
another major expense, in millions of dollars. There's just no way out of that.
But I want to emphasize the 70 to 75% recycling, and reuse, and compost. Up
until now, basically 100% of the stuff that comes into the dump is left there. Not
up until now, but until a few months ago. Now we are constantly working on
programs to accelerate and increase both the catagories of materials, that ought
to be recycled, and also, the numbers of tons in each of those catagories. Fishers
Island has done quite a good job on the recycling front yourselves. I mean from
what I have seen of the numbers, the recycling numbers here compare favorably
with what we're doing in Southold Town. Just last night the Task Force met, and
Ruth was it.. 17%?
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: It was 11.5% of the residential household waste is being
recycled, and if you add in the composting that we're doing at the landfill, it comes
up to 17.9% of wastestream, that's being recycled, and I think that's a very good
start. We have a long way to go though.
COUNCILMAN WICKHAM: As you've seen James Bunchuck, who is in charge of
our total waste program in the town, he's with you today. If you have any questions,
some of these questions he can answer. Now the two things, that I think may
be of particular interest to you, and I'll touch on them very briefly, and maybe
afterwards maybe we can discuss it in full. There are legal questions, and there
are financial questions, both of which I think you people will have some of these.
On the legal front, we believe that there are questions in the law, that need to
be sorted out in the courts. We don't feel that we can just simply walk into an
office, sort them, come up with answers that will stick for a long period of time,
and so you've probably read in the newspapers, that we, together with the towns
in Riverhead, and Easthampton, are in the courts trying to sort out what..really
two things, a number of things, but two of the key things are the applicability
of that law to towns like Southold Town, and to small islands like Fishers Island,
after all it's part of the town, and secondly we're trying to sort out through the
courts, the questions of the residual material, and the products of resource
recovery. The product of this systematic, and intensive recycling, and reuse, and
what can legally be done with that residual material. Those are the two key reasons
that we're hopeful, and pleased with the progress to date on that score. Now
the financial part. Garbage is inevitably is going to cost a lot of money. I've
tried to say this at every public meeting I've been to, including at least two of
them here on Fishers Island, and you're not unacquainted with the cost of garbage
You've paid more that most of us have through the garbage and refuse district
here. The thing that I think we should all be thinking about, we don't have an
answer for you today, but the thing that I think we should all be thinking about
in the front of our minds is the fairness of the tax burden as it applies to Fishers
Island. In the future a significant portion of tax revenues will have to paid to
have the Town in compliance with the~ga~bage mandates, ~ very significant portion
of our taxes. It is going t° mean a big iump in Town taxes to put ourselves
square with the law in this regard. When that happens, and it's already started
to happen, there should be some thought given to a fair way for the taxes paid
by Fishers Island to be..a tax abatement, or a reimbursement, or some form of
a reimbursement based on that proportion of taxes from the Island which would
finance garbage purposes on Long Island. The reason I say that is because we
assume that there will still be a garbage and refuse district here, and there would
still be some means of financinc~ throuc~h that district the reqular operation of
garbage here, and I think that if that happens there should be some compensatory
system of financingf so that it isn't essentially a double taxation problem. I think
you'll find the Town Board, or at least many of us, open to discussion on that,
and we look forward to having deeper discussion.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you, Tom. I'd also like to take this time to commend
the Fishers Island Garbage District for the movement that they've made, for the
job well done. Those Commissioners, that the residents of island have elected
really have put out the tremendous amount and effort in resolving a situation that
existed, and I think the movement of this transfer station, such as what we're
moving in Southold at the same time, is absolutely positive step towards resolving
the solid waste issue in the Town of'Southold, not to mention probably in all of
New York State, but they're to commended, and I appaud them. I know this Board
does for a job well done, because I know they put a lot of time and effort into
it. So I hope that answers your question. Thank you.
SPEEDY METTLER: Speedy Mettler. To take it one step further, how much money
each year do we pay specifically for taxes in Southold? How much of it comes back
into their garbage and refuse district~.
'SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Approximately, Speedy, and John Cushman is here, our
comptroll'er, approximately from the figures that we can accertain right now 8%
is contributed in from Fishers Island for everything. That 8% has be broken down
then into catagories such as the General Fund, what's attributed to solid waste
issues. That hasn't been done yet, because we haven't moved in that direction
to find out exactly what the costs are going to be for Southold when it comes to
the endeavors, that we're making right now, and the costs that you are including,
or have been confronting over here with your garbage district. That is something
that we're still looking into as far as breaking down those costs. It's not an easy
task to break down the cost. There are many things that are done on Fishers
Island, that are part of the general fund, that are outside of the garbage district,
the land, where the metal dump and other things like that are. So, that's not easy
to answer in one breath. But, we are definitely going to work on that. I know
John Cushman, and I, and the Town Board will be working on it, as we go down
this avenue together towards resolving that situation.
SPEEDY METTLER: I mean in the past, how much in dollars has it been that the
town has received that is delegated just for garbage?
COUNCILMAN WICKHAM: Within mainly Long Island?
SPEEDY METTLER: Not from Fishers Island.
COUNCILMAN WICKHAM: How much goes to garbage on Long Island?
SPEEDY METTLER: You can answer that, toot but really how much do we pay in
taxes for garbage that..in the tax. I mean, I know it's going to change, that it
comes back, or doesn't come backt because I can ask this question a lot.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: You have a garbage district, as you well know. That district
is set up strictly for the residents of the Island. Besides from that the General
Fund portion pays for the landfill, and other areas over here, that are all taxed
into one big fund, which handles under solid waste. If this was broken down per
what Fishers Island pays for individual person versus what individual person in
Southold pays. It's not broken out that way. The entire budget is probably over
a million dollars for solid waste, the entire budget for the town dealing with all
solid waste, and the landfill, and personnel, and equipment, and so on, is well over
a million dollars.
SPEEDY METTLER: We pay 8% of that?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Not 8% is what you contribute total to the whole general
fund, total of the whole budget of the town.
BILL RIDGWAY: May understanding is that Fishers Island pays in more, about
$300,000. more in taxes than we receive in services. That's about $1,000. a perma-
nent'resident. I wonder if you could justify that.
AUGUST 7, 1991
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: I don't know if that figure is accurate, and I couldn't make
a statement on that until we give an analysis of that figure. I know that there's
a lot of services that are taken care of over here, highway, police, bay constable,
and so on, right down the line, that exist, that many people don't even realize go
on in a daily basis. We don't have a breakdown of that at all. I don't know how
long that would take to try to do a break down on it.
BILL RIDGWAY: Could we try to get such a breakdown?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: I can work on that with my accountant John Cushman.
Sure. Absolutely.
.SPEEDY ME~I-FLER:Scott, I think this question comes up constantly, because I think
the residents of Fishers Island are not quite sure where their tax dollars go, and
what they're really used for, and the fact that you don't break it down makes it
more difficult for us to answer the questions. It's not just how much goes to
garbage. It's where does it go, how much of it really comes back to anything
for the Island. I think that's the question I get asked more than any other singel
question, and never know the answer. I,ve never really gotten a good answer
over the years. I just wondered...
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: I think you would have to take that, Speedy, beyond just
the town portion of the tax bill, because that's just one small portion. It's about
17% of your total tax bill, that pay just for the T6wn services. We have to take
it the County services, find out what portion of that is distributed out, that comes
back. Then you'll have to go to the school district, of course, find out what the
portion of taxes that you pay for the~ school district, then you have all your special
districts, which is ferry district, utilities, the garbage district, and right on down
the line. So, you know, you have to take out one portion of that total bill, which
is just the town's portion, then bring that down, and go from there. You can't
look at the overall tax bill, because the overall tax bill is not just distributed to
the Town of Southold. I'm saying, it's a complex issue. When people get their
taxes the thing this is just for Southold, or whatever, and then the tax bill is
broken out, and George Sullivan is here. It's broken out by the different components.
You have more special district over here, than most areas of Southold Town. In
other words, what I'm saying is, that to take that 17% out of the General Fund,
that you pay into Southold Town, and then you have to take your portion, break
it all out, and services come back. It's not an easy task, and I don't even know
if it would be feasible to do within a month. I mean you're talking about a number
of services, that come back and forth in kind services, that aren't even recognized
maybe on the daily basis.
SPEEDY METTLER: How about by next year? Do you think we'll get some idea?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: I hope that you'll have it by this year. I'll certainly try
to get that.
SPEEDY METTLER: Anything would be helpful, because we really don't know.
COUNCILMAN WICKHAM.' I'd like to try and answer the question of the proportion
of money spent on garbage in Long Island, out of the tax bill, that the Fisher
Island people spend here. As I understand it, what Fishers Island contributes,
something on the order of 8%, is it?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: 8 and a quarter.
COUNCILMAN WICKHAM: Eight percent of the total taxing base of the Town of
Southold, as Scott said, the cost of running the total landfill operations, and the
consulting services, and everything else that the town is doing for garbage, not
counting the garbage and refuse district, is on the order of a million dollars a ~
year. However, some of that cost is paid for through fees that we charge users
at the Cutchogue dump, perhaps a third of it, perhaps even forty percent is coming
in through fees of one kind or another. So, the net cost to the taxpayer is much
less than a million dollars. I think it's $600,000., or so. The people of Fishers
Island are indeed contributing some eight percent of that $600,000., or so, towards
that. There is relatively little coming back to Fishers Island in terms of direct
benefits in handling garbage. There are things that could be done in the future,
and we look forward to sitting down with people here, and working out some reasonable
solution. One possibility would be for the Town to take over some of the long
term intrastructure, that bonding might be required. Another would be to have
some tax abatement.
AUGUST 7, 1991
4¸5
PETER BRINDERHOFF: Peter Brinderhoff. I would Pike to ask you to report back
to us on how our tax money is being spent in the whole town, because this question
has come repeatedly. This is a concern of everyone on Fishers Island, as I'm sure
it is for in Southold. On Thursday there was a published report which spread
a little light on this particular subject. It was noted that the independent engineer
from Hartford were done, and they came up with the conclusion that Southold had
increasingly been giving the Island more services, than was the case in the recent
past. The $300,000. gap, which did exist a few years ago, has now managed to
be less $100,000. That was in 1990. What it is today. I do not know. I would
applaud that move. I'm delighted that their services to the Island are increasing,
but I think Speedy is quite correct, we need to know on an updated basis, that precise
figure. It helps a lot, because we look to you for services. We look to you for
many things, but we sometimes have to provide for ourselves.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Again I'd like to just state that the Town's portion of the
bill is one percentage of .17%. In that catagory I would hope that the Fishers
Island Civics Association, and the residents would ask that same question of the
other components of your tax bill, to get it broken out so you could see what
services are coming back also in that area, because they do make up the major
portion of the bill, and it certainly would be beneficial to know all aspects of the
tax bill, what is coming back in services, and so on like that, so you're absolutely
right. Thank you.
PETER BRINDERHOFF: Who exactly would we ask for the breakdown?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: In the County, you could certainly ask the County Legis-
lator. You could ask the County Executive. They have budget people on both
sides to give you some kind of break~lown for services. You can ask the State
agencies, whatever you pay in monies there. The multitude of areas that you can
go into to look in your tax dollars is endless. But the ones you directly see on
your bill are the major components, as I mentioned earlier, and those are the areas.
I'm sure the school budget over here are gone through with a fine tooth comb to
find out where the monies are spent, and so on, as all the other districts have
Commissioners, that you elect, to find out how they're spending their money. One
other area, that I'd like to talk to you about, and that is the study that's been
going on in Fishers Island here in reference to the surface water, your drinking
water, which the County studies has been undertaking, and Jim, you went out
there today, did you look at any of that? Would you like to just say a few words
about what you saw today, when you were out there?
JAMES BAGG: Basically, we're in the process of setting a contract, to
hire engineering, to do the engineering work, and drill the various wells. We're
going to concentrate on Barlow Pond, Treasure Pond, all central locations. There
are a number of information gaps, which you do not have with respect to water
supply, number one, are these ponds fresh water, groundwater ponds. Where does
the water come from? Is the watershed beneath? The pond area is very..does
not have the areas, so we feel it may come from , and what's the sensitivity
of your-water supply system? It's your sole water supply system, that you're
going to have to depend on for years. In addition, we're going to map the fresh-
water wetlands system associated with those ponds, and try to come out with an
end result in the study, as to the exact nature of the where the water supply
is depended on, it's vigility, and future prime scenarios, that make impact on the
water supply, and they're not. Right now we're in the process of contract to have
the well work done, and some of these water studies done in the ponds.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: There's other individuals here, John Thatcher with the
Conservency, John, for the people that don't understand that the study that was
going on, the Conservency has been instrumental behind this all the time, and
looking into these areas that are critical environmental areas. The County Legislator
Mike Carr~:iolo helped appropriate funding for $10,000. in conjunction with private
money, that came out of Nature Conservency, and what's the other, John there's
one other?
JOHN THATCI-.iER Our Conservency is paying half the cost.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: That's why I'm giving you credit. There's one other entity
also.
JOHN THATCHER: Yes. Sangar, I believe there's $10,000. FIDCO will also contri-
bute $10,000.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: John?
AUGUST 7, 1991
JOHN CLAVIN: I would just like to say a little bit more on garbage. In all due
respect to you, Tom, you mentioned cost of the landfill. What you didn't talk about
was cost of the engineering study that went into a composting system over there,
the lega fees which are being paid now to fight the DEC, all of which we're paying
8% of, okay? At the same time, our garbage district which we are paying for,
has it's engineering study, and it has it's legal fees, and we're not getting any
help from the Town on that. Now, all on the Board are a wonderful group of
people, and we had a wonderful group of people up there as long as I've been
on Fisher Island, but as long as I've been on Fishers Island I've been hearing
you're going to do something for us on this garbage situtation. Bill Pell was the
first one I heard say, there's funds there for you people to tax your own garbage
district, and tax the Town of Southold garbage operation, and we've got to do
something about that. Bob Tasker was going to take care of that. He was going
to go to Albany to take care of that. It did not work out, and I'm just saying,
we believe in you, we trusted you, we want you to do something, but not come
back here next year, and say we're going to do something. If i knew Harvey
Arnoff was working on it, and had a plan that was going to get past the Legislature,
or the courts, and so forth, I'd be a lot more satisfied than hearing we're going
to do something about it.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Well, John, the Solid Waste Management Plan, that was
passed by this Board in February, is a comprehensive plan, a twenty year plan,
which takes care of Fishers Island as well as the mainland, because Fisher Island
is part of Southold Town, still part of Suffolk County, part of the State of New
York, and that Solid Waste Management Plan, which adopted takes care of Fishers
Island's planning for twenty years in conjunction with Southold's mainland solid
waste problem, which has to be done,, which we have done. So, the engineering
studies that were paid to do that, were part of what you paid. Just to answer
one question on that. That's a twenty year plan that starts in 1995, goes through
the year 2015, which is all the solid waste issues. Not only what the mainland
has but all issues that you had over here, which all had to be adopted all inclusive,
by the rules, and regulations, and procedures that we have to follow.
JUSTICE EDWARDS: Just a couple of things to answer John's question. Do
you remember, John, when Bob Tasker was working on the project it to dissolve
the Fishers Island Garbage District, and if we dissolve the district over here, that
would have put everything in the Town's lap, and so there were three different
ways that we could have dissolved the district, and he was working on them. He
didn't put all his time into it, but he was working on it piecemeal, but the garbage
district came out with the idea, that they did not want to break away from the
town. I mean they wanted to keep it the way it was, and so if we'd have broken
away from the garbage district, let the town take everything over, then the town
would..it would be their problem right now, not ours. But the garbage district
themselves decided that they wanted to go their own way, and maintain it themselves.
They figured the local control would be better. It would be easier to haul the
garbage, and so that's why that program was dropped. I know that when we sit
down budget time in October, we're going to see what. the long range garbage
program is for the Town of Southold, and we're going to get that rebate back to
Fishers Island, not all of it, but we're going to get 8% of that back again. Of
course, we've lost I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars in the
past say ten years, that I've been on there, because of the taxes that we've been
paid. We paid the, when Cutchogue went into the heavy landfill equipment, you
know that was almost a million dollars, the original bond. Now that's coming down,
but the cost is going to rise again, because of the hauling of what have you.
COUNCILMAN WICKHAM: If I could just add to Judge Edwards' comment. I think
it would be helpful, let's face it, we all go back to our jobs, and Long Island,
and Fishers Island does not figure high on our priorities for another eleven months,
until we have this opportunity again.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: That's not true. That's your opinion, Tom, that's not
ours,
COUNCILMAN WICKHAM: I'm speaking personally. What would be helpful to us,
I think, would be if you and others who are concerned about this, through Judge
Edwards could give us your concerns, and let us know in a timely way, even with
some written ideas, and perhaps have some key people among you, who would take
responsibility for these things, and to help keep us focused on that. Frankly,
it would help, and we'll be responsive.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Also, let m~ ~b~i~g:up a couple of other items. There
was a letter sent by the Fishers Island School in reference to the tennis courts.
They needed some repair. The Town of Southold, this year, did not have money
budgeted for the tennis courts. However, in our budget deliberations we'll start
in the fall, we will be talking about tennis courts, and money is to be put in there
for repair, which we discussed at the last Town Board meeting a week ago. So
that is something that we are working on also, because that is part of recreation,
that obviously the Island enjoys, and it's certainly part of Southold Town's enjoyment
for visitors to come over here, just say the transits, that come over here by boat,
and stay, or whatever. That area is going to be worked on. It was brought to
our attention by 'the school, and we will be talking about a budget time. Also,
I have a letter here, which was sent to me by the American Leagion from the
Department of New York, and says, I must regretfully decline your invitation to
attend participation at the Southold Town Board meeting on Fishers Island. I'm
heavily committed to the National Cbnvention planning at that time. I'll be up in
Albany. Please convey to all Fishers Island greetings, and good wishes of the
State Department of American Legion. I look forward in seeing you sooner, at
a better time, when it's more convenient for all of us to continue our cooperation.
Thank you again for your thoughtfulness, signed Richard Pedro, Department
Adjutant, who is obvious involved with the Legions statewide, so he would have
been here. I'm sure he would have talked to the Legion on the island here, as
he has in the past. Bob, I'm sure you're familar with this individual from the
Legion. Bob Neville is also representing the Legion. One other item of business,
it was brought, it was sent to the Town from Tom Doherty, who's the Chief of
Fishers Island Fire Department, appeal letter, and that appeal letter obviously
should be mentioned because it's very important the funds that are raised through
any fire department, especially for the drive they have, the Fishers Island boat,
that they have, which can get a patient from here over to Connecticut, in less
than an hour, is unbelievable today. To me that's a state of the art to go from
point to point by boat, and I know that you have a new boat, that you're working
on. Judge, what is that a 42 foot Duffy and Duffy, I think, I understood? So,
Tom, are you here? Just want to say a few words on that, Tom, just on your
appeal?
TOM DOHERTY: We're replacing our stretcher which is a 36 foot Hadarras with
a larger boat, because it goes twelve months of the year. It goes in February,
and March, in bad weather. Our Emergency Medical boat we're replacing with a
42 foot Duffy and Duffy, currently being constructed in Maine. It should be
finished, hopefully, in the month of September. It brought down here in October,
if everything goes on schedule, but depends on the weather, if something happens,
and we're still accepting contributions. Thank you very much.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you, Tom. Is there anyone else? Yes?
SALLY CASHEL: I'm Sally Cashel, and I'd like to go back to the water study.
When you had started initiating a program like this, does it stop any further
building in those areas, that may very well be watershed?
JAMES BAGGS: It simply is a study, and as a study is made would not stop bu, ding
permit. It is not moratory, so those permits would have to still go through the
septic tank application, State agencies, but at that particular time the Department
of Health Services, they would probably be looking at those permits very, very
closely. Building inspector would be inspecting 'the' sites very, very closely.
SALLY CASHEL: What kind of results are we going to have from these studies to
be made?
JAMES BAGGS: Basically, the final study will have planning input, and advisories
from us, as to were building should or should not be done
SUPERERVISOR HARRIS: Also, to answer your question, maybe Louise Harrison?
Louise are you here?
JAMES BAGGS: She's in the field.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Louise could maybe further add to that, but thank you,
Jim. Yes, sir?
STEVE MALINOWSKI: Steve Malinowski. Last year at this meeting, John Bredemeyer,
the President of the Trustees suggested, and told us no permits should be issued
(tape change.)
AUGUST 7, 1991
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: John is out in the field right now, so he's not here to
answer your question.
STEVE MALINOWSKI: Are the Trustees the only Town agency, that grants permits
for building near freshwater.
COUNCILWOMAN LATSON: The Building Department would have to grant a permit,
and also, if it's more than one lot, the Planning Board. I think the overall intent
of this study, the way I understood it, and the way we approached it on the Town
Board when it was funded, was to determine what areas would be developable,
and what areas would not be developable in the immediate vicinity of Barlow Pond,
and to insure that there would be no impact on your drinking water supply from
any such development, and until that time I understood that there would be no
building around it, and there hasn't been. It's an unofficial moratorium, and I
think that was an application, but the person is cooperating, and waiting for the
results of the study. Is that correct?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: John Thatcher?
JOHN THATCHER: I understood very much what Ellen was just saying with the
addition, that a watershed protection plan would be the end result of this study.
I'm not sure in effect it would be a legal plan, that could not be violated without
incredible number of appeals. In other words, it would protect in the foreseeable
future, not only our water supply, and our water quality, but also a large number
of endangered species, that have already been discovered both plants and animal
on the island. There are over twenty rare endangered plants in New York State.
Ed Horning here must have discovered many of them himself. So in think, Ellen,
you're right. That's what I understood.
COUNCILWOMAN LATSON: We plugged along for quite.awhile on the Town Board,
to be sure that the study was done, so we do keep you in mind after we leave.
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Also, much thanks to the Conservency, and the fund,
and FIDCO for contributing the money, because with the shortfall with the County
funds, and our funds, your contribution has been more than helpful. It really
made the study, which is so important to you, go forward.
JUSTICE EDWARDS: I would like to ask a question of Victor Lessard, as to what
the status of the Homestead map is now for the FIDCO property.
VICTOR LESSARD: It's been understanding that, whoever is doing it up in
Connecticut, have been temporarily held up, because there's a question of one
lot down on the end of the Island, that somebody either purposely, or not purposely,
mark out as unbuildable, and it was done after the lot was purchased, or something,
I don't know it's all gotten beyond..
JUSTICE EDWARDS: Was this the Saner
VICTOR LESSARD: I believe the Canfield property. That's the only thing I can
remember. The Town has to sit down, and say, you know, why did we change
this lot? What's going on?
JUSTICE EDWARDS: This is going to have to done because it's holding up some
progress here.
VICTOR LESSARD: I understand that. We're trying to push it. Hopefully, I'm
going to talk to FIDCO lawyers, and see if we can get the maps printed out, and
then argue about the lot later, but I don't know if they'll do that.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Are there any other questions to BOard?
BILL RIDGWAY: I'm Bill Ridgway, and my understanding is that the mooring
permit fees go into the general fund, and my question is, what will have to do
to get a budget process, so ~ome of that money could come back to a harbor
managing plan.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: A lot of that money this year did come back to the island.
As a matter of fact, I think all of it came back this year, to the island, in form
of pilings, and other markers, many, many markers that John Clavin has been
putting out, the Harbormaster, as far as including the pilings itself, marking the
channel. Judge?
JUSTICE EDWARDS: It's true, and with the salary of the Bay Constable, and
the Assistant Bay Constable, and the services, that are paid for that the H~rbor-
master does, basically most of that does come back to Fishers Island, one way or
another. I mean, there may be a shortfall on Fishers Island side, but it's not
that much, because we've gotten a lot more services this year, in the past Qouple
of years, than we've had in the past.
COUNCILWOMAN LATSON: Bill, could I ask you a question, when say for your
water harbor management, does that mean that you would like to see the money
that you pay to the Town for mooring be reimbursed back to whom?
BILL RIDGWAY: What I'm looking for is process of trying to develop a formal plan
to manage West Harbor, aeri~,.I photographs, then typing, printing, and the
cost associated with developing, that.
COUNCILWOMAN LATSON: I don't know how many of you on Fishers Island are
aware of this, but in 1972 under the Clean Water Act, there was funding made
available to all coastal states to come up with Water:front Revitalization Programs,
and we're reviewing a draft of that riclht now in the Town of Southold of which
Fishers Island is an important part of-it, and is included. A harbor management
plan could be incorporated into the Local Waterfront Revitilization Plan, and the
benefits are, athough you'd like to remain attonamous in your regulation of the
harbor for various reasons,- there would be benefits to you to incorporate it into
a long term plan, as far as awareness of other State and local agencies, or what
you're plan is, and enhancement of your water dependent uses, and insurance of
your water quality in the long term, but this would have to be complied by in any
type of development or proposal. Carol should communicate with the Town more
on what your final plan is, and that could be incoporated.
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Also, if you very definite budget recommendations, we
will be starting the budget process, and why don't you then develop a budget
for this harbor master plan, so that we could incorporate it as a line item. Then
you would know directly how some of your taxes are being funded right back to
you. I
BILL RIDGWAY: So if we develop a budget request, then you'll consider it in
your budget. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: As we have in the past with many requests.
COUNCILWOMAN OLVIA: Just to go..Ellen and I had looked at that tennis court
down there this morning, and it certainly does need repair, and Ellen can go into
detail because she is Chairman of our Parks and Recreation Committee, but we
certainly do feel that Fishers Island is entitled to some benefits of Park and
Recreation here, as well as we have done some in on the mainland. There is enough
money in that budget, and there is no reason why we can't fix up that tennis court
down there, and Ellen has some figures, I believe, someone had done some estimates
over here from different companies coming to look at the court. I think they range
from $17,000 to $39,000.
COUNCILWOMAN LATSON: It hasn't gone out to bid. These are just estimates
that have been submitted. The specs could be drawn, and it could go out to bid,
but as we have a fund in the Town of $outhold where developers contribute to
a Park and Playground Fund in lieu of putting a park, or playground in their
immediate development, and the purpose of the fund is to use those monies, for
the town to take those monies, and use them to provide recreational park facilities
for the residents of the Town of Southold. In that fund is about $289,000 right
now. Our Town Attorney said, and the Supervisor said that a lease has to be
drawn up for the town to lease the land.
TOWN ATTORNEY ARNOFF.' You probably need a resolution from your school
district, the school board, indicating their willingness to lease us the tennis court
itself, for us to enable us to utilize money on this. It's private land at this point,
so we would need some form of resolution, and then a formal lease. I can prepare
that, or the school districts attorney can, which ever. You could lease for a dollar
a year, or something like that, maybe you could do the work on it.
CAROL RIDGWAY: Carol Ridgway. Could you tell me what procedures will filed.
in order for Fishers Island to get a special exemption, or exception, to the present
water sking regulations, and abou*~ how long the 'procedure,s will take?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: That just came to my attention this morning. I hadn't
had any word of this, or the Board I don't think had either, any word of this.
TOWN CLERK TERRY: We just received it by fax yesterday.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Right, and we haven't even had a chance to look into
it yet. This is in reference to Hay Harbor Club, the waters in the front there,.
You talking about water sking in -':e there, because there's a Town ordinance
that says so many feet from the beach, and so on.
AUGUST 7, 1991
JUSTICE EDWARDS: Matt might be able to tell us something on that.
ASSISTANT TOWN ATTORNEY KIERNAN: It's just like any other Local Law, we'll
need to draft an amendment to the Code as it exists now, and present it to the
Town Board for their consideration. If they're willing to amend the Code, and
in that way we'lll set a public hearing at which time comments can be had, and
thereafter the Board will vote on it, and if it becomes law, so be it.
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Do you have any trouble with jet skis?
TOWN ATTORNEY ARNOFF: But you're saying water sking by annual permit only.
Who would the annual permit go to, the skier, the boat?
CAROL RIDGWAY: The boat operator.
TOWN ATTORNEY ARNOFF: So a casual visitor, as these are for a boat, would
not be able to ski. That's what you're looking for then.
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: Can I ask you, Carol, what problems are you haVing
with jet skis over here, because we're having problems?
CAROL RIDGWAY: I haven't personally heard of a resident complaining about it.
SUSIE WILMERDING: Susie Wilmerding. I strongly object to it. It's too small
an area. The little boats sail in that area, and crab. There's windsurfers and
it's too dangerous.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: We had a similar situation in the town last year. One area
that we figured to be an area that is sort of pristine, but was, also, an area that
is utilized by many commercial clammers, and residential clammers, and those who
just like to canoe, and so on. What we addressed the problem with is the speed
limit. We set the speed limit at five miles per hour in that whole body of water.
By doing that, obviously a jet ski is not going to go more than five miles an hour,
and still be in that area. It's not any fun for them. So, that's how we addressed
it.
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: It's in the Code now, so it should be enforceable in your
waters, too.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: I think we only did it in one area. We add an area, if
that is the direction that we will get from Fishers Island.
COUNCILWOMAN OLVIA: The jet skis, are the launching these from docks, public
launching ramps, or just from swimming beaches?
JUDY EDWARDS: They're coming from Connecticut.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Ladies and gentlemen, Chief Droskoski would like to
address this problem, as he's had it in Southold.
CHIEF DROSKOSKI: It's matter for the Bay Constable, that someone exceeds the
five mile an hour speed limit that we have, and again, they have limits from the
beach out. Again, it's the same with water skiers. They're not allowed to go
out off the beach within a certain yardage. It's a matter that the Bay Constable
deals with. Does that answer your question?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: As I said, it's addressed by miles per hour, that's allowed
to be in that area, so if the member of the Fishers Island Civic Association, or
the Hay Harbor Club, or whatever organization want certain areas to be designated
by Southold Town, it would be a Local Law chanqe, and we would be glad to
entertain that motion to take it up at the Town I~oard meeting, once we receive
the formal documentation on it.
JUSTICE EDWARDS: I got a phone call this morning from Delaware, and is there
any kind of bandaid, we could put on the law to allow this sking now until We
made it a Local Law? There's no way that we could?
COUNCILWOMAN OLIVA: No. It wouldn't take that long.
SUSIE WILMERDING: There's also a serious pollution problem in Hay Harbor right
now, where we have now banned our sail..well, little sailboats can go out there,
but no windsurfing. We've moved that all the way to the other end of the harbor.
Why should we allow water skiers in there, when it is polluted, when we don't
allow our windsurfers in there? I think right now this is a bad time to let people
go in the water there.
AUGUST 7, 1991
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: The procedure would be if the Fishers Island Civic
Association, for instance, under the new President would take this up at the next
meeting, and it's obviously directed from there, that this is the community feeling.
There still is a time frame for the Town to enact it, to publishize it, to go to the
public hearings, and enact it, so I would say it would be too late for this summer,
because it's at least four to six weeks away. If we could get it by next week,
I'm sure we couldn't get it that quickly, to enact the law change, the local law
change.
ART WALSH: I may have missed something, but I don't understand how you can
put a speed limit in the same area that you're going to water ski.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: You can't. If you set five miles an hour, that would be
for the whole body of water.
ART WALSH: It's not just for jet skis?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: That's correct, for everything.
ART WALSH: Do we have an other idea, because it's not going to work?
TOWN ATTORNEY ARNOFF: To ban the use of jet skis within a certain radius.
You can do that. The letter from Mrs. Ridgway is a starting part, but I don't
think it's the end of what you really want. I think your association should discuss
that.
ART WA/SH: We have discussed this at length at the Civic Association meetings,
and I think that the conclusion that we came to is if you held the speed limit to
five miles an hour, except for those boats that are specifically permitted in there.
That's how we felt we were going to get around it.
TOWN ATTORNEY ARNOFF: ~ Except'permits would have to issued, I think you
said in the previous letter.
ART WALSH: The Harbormaster would issue the permits.
TOWN ATTORNEY ARNOFF: Permits to Suffolk County residents, Southold Town
residents? We certainly can't limit it to Fishers Island.
ART WALSH: The Bay Constable, or the Harbor Master could protect us. That
was our best guess as of last Saturday, and that's what Carol said.
TOWN ATTORNEY ARNOFF: We can limit it to Southold Town. I don't think you
can limit it to Fishers Island residents.
SPEEDY METTLER:T~I~eyhave skied in this area for the last..as long as there have
been boats, and until you change the law last year everything was fine, so all
of a sudden the law got changes, we had to immediately stop the sking, and now
they're just trying to put back what used to be. We're sure trying to excude
jet skis from that, so that's sort of where we were. We weren't sure of exactly
how to go about it. That was the question, how long does it take, and how do
we go about it?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Speedy; I don't know if you'd bring that up at your next
meeting, or whatever, according to what you've done in the past, if you could
address some of those questions that you have legally to us, we'll hopefully have
it resolved for you on that matter, and then tell us the direction, that you want
us to take once you get that answer, and this Board will be glad to deliberate
on it.
COUNCILWOMAN LATSON: As Harvey said it might be easier to ban jet skis in
that specific area.
TOWN ATTORNEY ARNOFF: There's nothing to prevent you from doing that within
a certain area. When you have some ideas get in touch with me, and I'll try to
help you.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Is there any other members of the audience, that would
like to address this Board?
AUGUST 7, 1991
SPEEDY METTLER: One last question on a completely different subject, because
I don't know who to address it to, but I think Ken LaValle is the person to ask.
There are a number of residents on the Island, who have been very concerned
about the trawlers, who have been operating in the bay out here, and basically
netting up everything in sight, including existing lobster pots, and just completely
breaking up the food chain for the fish, and allegedly they've been taking what
they've netted, going off the coast, and selling it to the Russian's boats out there.
We would like to know who do we write about this to control this, specifically are
the trawlers allowed in there by permit only, or at all? Secondly, who enforces
it? Is it the Town of Southold? Is it the New York State? Is it the Federal
government? Is it the Coast Guard, the DEC? We have a feeling nobody supports
the industry. We guess that there are no permits, that have been issued to these
trawlers, but we don't know, and we'd just like some answers, or maybe just tell
us who we should talk to about this, because it's a big question.
SENATOR LAVALLE: This is not a new problem. As a matter of fact Assemblyman
Sawicki, and I have tried the number of approaches. One of things, that you
have to try and weave through, and it's the same problem that you're trying to
weave through with the jet skis, is that you have Connecticut residents, who are
causing the problem, and so the problem that was brought to our attention was
not our own people, New York State people, that were causing the problem, but
was out-of-state people with very, very large boats, that were coming in, and
d-~agging, and taking everything. We used a number of approaches. The first
approach was one to try, and deal with boat sizes, so that we established a boat
size, that we knew the size of the boat from the other shore, and we would be
able to knock that out. That was not successful. We have tried in recent law
in terms Iobstering is to remove dragging all together, and to do it by pots, and
prior to that we had set a..prior to iust moving to pots, we had another law that
was just wasn't working, which had a 100, if you had 100 lobsters on the boat,
we thought that they would have to keep going back to the other shore. They
had caught lobsters in their net, and had in excess of 100, that it would be too
much. That was not working. It wa~sn't working because part of an enforcement
problem, but more importantly that people felt that we had to address who should
be doing this, and the maiority of the people felt that trawling was not, it was
presented by more conventional, age old methodoligy of using lobster pots to catch
lobsters was the method that we want. In terms of enforcement, do you people
have enforcement on the coast? Let me just say that part of the problem is weeding
throught the Constitutional ledger, prviledges and immunities. You've gotto be
very careful that you're not setl~ing up two different standards for residents, and
non-residents. Senator Owen Jo~.hnson, who is a Suffolk Senator, is Chairman of
the Senate Committee on Environment Conservation, is aware of this problem, and
we're trying to constantly find methodoligy, i even to the point in permitting to
make it difficult for someone, who is out of state to came in, and get a permit by
saying, that the only way you can get a permit is to come all around to New York,
and get it in person, but you can't do it by mail. Things of this nature. We're
aware that it's a problem, and both the Assemblyman, and I are trying to address
it along with the standing committee with the Senate.
JOHN THATCHER:
I'm John Thatcher from Fishers Island Conservency. Senator, I would be delighted
to talk to you after this meeting a little more in depth here, because we have an
island which has banned flounder fishing, because of excessive trawling. Some
of the trawlers come over here. I see them at night. It's all over at night. That
is part of the problem. As you so aptly remarked, a lot of this is important, Simply,
enforcing existing regulations would go a long way, I think, towards helping the
problem here, the results of taking too much of natural resource, the bluefish
in Long Island Sound, which have been declining in numbers the last few years .
It's not quite the same, because the bait is not quite the same, and it's the bait
that seems , and I think it needs an approach, where we can share a lot of
the resources we have among the recreational anglers, who outnumber the com-
mercial about 10,000 to I, and they have a right to make a living. I would like
to discuss this with you a little further right after this meeting. I have written
letters to Congressmen. I will send you a copy, if you will give me your card
after this meeting. This is probably what the Conservency is all about.
KEVIN DUBOIS: In terms of Fishers, maybe I can answer some of your questions.
I used to work with the Department of Fisheries. The southern states have! smaller
size limits for bluefishing, so New York State has had a very big problem, because
out of state boats can come into New York State waters, and take fish that aire under-
sized by New York State limits, and they don't get caught. The biggest p~oblem
in New York State is enforcement, because New York State currently allows out
If I might ask the Senator, and comment very briefly on questions.
AUGUST 7, 1991
of state permits, commercial fishing permits, more expensive than New York State
resident permits, but they're allowed to fish here. But the problem is we don't
want to see undersized New York State fish leave the State, and land in states
where the size limits are less. So, currently the DEC, the fishing division, is
working in conjunction with the National Fishing Service to coordinate the size,
so that everybody comes into the same size limits, so if New York State has a
fourteen inch size limit, and Maryland has a fourteen inch size limit, and Carolinas
have a fourteen inch size limit. So, New York State is taking steps to try and
solve that problem. Out of state people are taking advantage of fishing restrictions
here in New York State. New regulations are in the works for bluefishing in New
York State to try to bring the other states in line, so we don't have that problem.
5¸:3
MAN FROM AUDIENCE: Does that apply to striped bass, too?
KEVIN DUBOI$:
it's been flounders.
I'm not aware of any additions of striped bass, currently
JOHN THATCHER:I might add that the bottom fish situation here on the Island has
been pretty poor for the last few years. Biackfish are almost none existent. Sea
bass very few. I haven't caught one yet this year. There's porgies here, but
that's about it. Weakfish are down. Something is happening, and I feel that the
trawlers are part of it, but another part of it, and particularly as you mentioned
undersized fish, the are part of it too, because they will eat the younger
fish. Everybody things it's a pet peeve of mine, but they do. What I'm saying
is this problem needs a multi-phase solution. No single dimension is causing our
shortage of fish. There's several factors working here. I called the Rhode Island
Bureau of Fisheries to ask about their ban on flounder fishing. The gentleman,
who answered, the Deputy Commissioner, said there were two problems in Rhode
Island. He couldn't control either one of them, One is excessive trawling, and
the other was So there you go.. It's not going to be easy, but we'de
certainly like to work on it. ~'
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Senator LaValle?
SENATOR LAVALLE: I'll briefly comment, so that everybody is aware of that New
York is part of a Land and Coastal Commission with various states. We exchange
information, very active participation. I must say that the states in exchanging
information try to close gap, and avoid the problem that was mentioned in terms
of having size limitations, that are different in different states. The DEC, I must
say, sends to the Legislature almost on an annual basis, and the last one I think
was the weakfish, that John mentioned, in which we tried, because people said
weakfish are down, you've got to protect the spawning period, so we changed the
dates and so forth. That's been done on a very, very agressive level to try and
protect our stock, number one, .make sure our laws are compatible with neighboring
states, so that you don't have pirating of resources. We know that that takes
place. I think that several people have mentioned to you, the bottom line is the
enforcement. In that regard, with budgetary problems being what they are, you
don't have the kind of personnel, that you really need to do something. The other
thing is when you begin to look at the first Senatorial District, the area coastline,
that you have in the water, it's so immense, just think if you even increase the
enforcement personnel three fold, you still have enough to patrol the resources
of our great county.
SALLY CASHELL: May ask, Senator, with the enforcement personnel, that we have
presently at this moment, we have the Coast Guard, we have the Federal, we
have New York State troopers, we have Bay Constables, and we have Councilmen
in charge of the Town. None of these people are able to enforce any of these
regulations. We need a person from the DEC, and you have how many people?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Various personnel have authority depending on how far you
are from..each has jurisdictional authority. The Coast Guard has authority power
a certain distance from land. The DEC has certain authority in certain areas,
and .again, the Bay Constable has limited authority in their jurisdiction. The New
York State Police, again, we have follows..you know, you asked a good question.
We have enough problems in terms of personnel on land.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Senator, Tom is here from..is one of our State police officers.
Tom would you like to elaborate on that? You have a boat, don't you, Tom?
AUGUST 7, 1991
STATE TROOPER COMARANT: The company has a boat. We do not enforce it,
as you know. We only have two troopers on the island. Okay? There are about
three trawlers from Connecticut. They come anywhere from eight at night to
midnight. There's no way, that I would board a boat by myself, when a boat has
five, six, seven people. The Coast Guard will not board commercial boats. I can
get no assistance whatsever from the Coast Guard. The DEC has boat in Mattituck,
which is well equipped, and it's just a question of them coming out here. My boat
is ill equipped.
SALLY CASHELL: It's a person you need not equipment.
STATE TROOPER COMARANT: No, my whole needs are equipment.
SALLY CASHELL: And you said you would not board a boat.
JOHN THATCHER: Scott, I would ask one thing here. I would say to the Senator,
and to all of you, that if we could just get one arrest, or one person, who is
violating some of these laws, it would have a chilling effect on the others. Human
beings are still human beings, and that would give us no end of good. The mere
thought that somebody, even at night, might be out there, and I think ·would give
a lot of people pause, and would save some of the resources to build up. I under-
stand exactly what Tom is saying, yes, it's not easy to board a boat at night,
even when you two people on board, but maybe some sort of combined operation,
some kind of cooperation between agencies could get just one boat out there, I
think the message would be sounded loud and clear.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Also, I'd line to mention that the Regional Director, Ray
Cowan, and I discussed this on the trip over here, and I was pleading with him,
to see what he could do with the resources that he's left with, because of the
budget cuts, that we all are encountering, the Southold Town budget losing three
to five hundred thousand in State aid this year for instance. I can imagine what's
happened within all the departments within the State of New York. I had asked
Mr. Cowan if he would please look into finding a way, that he could get a police
officer, or I should say, a DEC inforcement officer back in Southold Town. There
was one living there. He retired. He moved out of the town, and that would help
anothe,
to get at least one body back out on the East End, and certainly out here it's ~'~
situation, which we could help enhance that too. I realize he has constraints,
but at the same time he said he'd look into what could be done, and he wasn't
aware that the shortage had existed, because the man just recently retired, and
he didn't realize that it hadn't been filled in another postion. So hopefully with
the Senate, and the Assembly, and with the DEC working with those two agencies,
we can get some enforcement people out here to help regulate some of these fisheries,
and other matters, that have to do with environmental conservation rules. There's
questions way in the back?
JOHN THATCHER: Scott, I heard there was a question to the Trustee's Office?
COUNCILWOMAN LATSON: There was jus;~ a question on Barlow Pond. A water
study was being undertaken, to come up with a final determination of the impact
of housing, where there were going to be permits issued for development by your
office, and people understand that there weren't, but you weren't here to ask.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: The Chairman of the Board of Trustees, John Bredemeyer.
John?
JOHN BREDEMEYER: The Board of Town Trustees did not engage in any discussion
on that issue to date.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Okay, one final question, because we do have the boat
to catch. Yes, ma'am?
CHERRY RAFFERTY: Cherry Rafferty. I've often wondered if it makes sense
for us to have a Trustee member over here, so because there's so many questions
that need to be answered, and we have to get together with, and so far away.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Mrs. Rafferty, I don't have the answer. It is an elected
official. Maybe our Town Clerk, who has been with us many· years has had this
question posed in the past. Do you happen know?
TOWN CLERK TERRY: It is elected official, and there's nothing in the stature,
that directs that this particular person has to come from Fishers Island, whereas,
Justice it does.
AUGUST 7, 1991
55
CHERRY RAFFERTY: I was wondering is there someone in particular that we should
go to with our questions.
TOWN CLERK TERRY: It's right in Town Hall. He's secretary is right here in
the back.
COUNCILWOMAN LATSON: It think it was discussed, I think among the Trustees
at one time of perhaps a Conservation Advisory Council member a Fishers Island
resident, if there was someone who was interested. The Conservation Advisory
Council advises the Board of Trustees on their opinion of the status of a wetland
application, and votes whether to approve or disapprove, plus makes recommendations
to mitigate potential impact, etc. I think John that there was no statutory reason
why someone from Fishers Island could not apply for that position for practical
application in attendance for a Fishers Island to have to come to Southold once
a month for meetings, and then on another day once a month go on inspections.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: It's extremely fragilematical, because the Board of Town
Trustees has primary (tape change) the State Legislature under State Law that
function doesnt' exist for us on the Island, so it would difficult to include a
Trustee from the island, as Trustee, without changing State law, and a whole
review of our regulations.
CHERRY RAFFERTY: There are two things, that would be helpful, if we had more
communication between people on the mainland and here. We certainly have a lot
of wetlands here as you know, and it's very hard for all of you guys to sit down
at a desk, and to come over here, a~ much as it's difficult for us to send a
representative over to the mainland, so in order to have communication, and
perhaps more information or imput from some of the neighbors, and some of the
organization here on the Island.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Mrs. Rafferty, there is two members from the CAC here.
John McCormick is here, and Bruce Loucka is sitting right next to him. There
are two members of the CAC here, so if you could address any problems, that
you know of right now to them. They are representing that advisory board.
They'd be glad to take back, and discuss it. Thank you. I'll entertain a motion
to adjourn.
Moved by Councilwoman Latson, seconded by Councilman Wickham, it was
RESOLVED that the Town Board meeting be and hereby is adjourned at 2:45 P.M.
Vote of the Town Board: Ayes: Councilman Wickham, Councilwoman Latson,
Councilwoman Oliva, Justice Edwards, Supervisor Harris.
This resolution was declared duly ADOPTED.
Judith T. Terry~
Southold Town Clerk