Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutPublic Hearing 08/13/2019 SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD PUBLIC HEARING August 13, 2019 9:00 AM Present: Supervisor Scott Russell Justice Louisa Evans Councilman William Ruland Councilwoman Jill Doherty Councilman James Dinizio, Jr. Councilman Bob Ghosio, Jr. Deputy Town Clerk Lynda Rudder Town Attorney William Duffy This hearing was opened at 9:00 AM (Continuation of hearing from 7/30/19) COUNCILMAN GHOSIO: NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN the Town Board of the Town of Southold will hold a Public Hearing on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:00 A.M. at the Southold Town Meeting Hall, 53095 Main Road, Southold, New York upon application of the Coastal Erosion Hazard Board of Review Appeal of Harry and Haykuhi Bashian, which seeks relief from Section 111-6 Definitions and 111-12D Beach Area of the Town Code to replace existing storm- damaged bulk-heading with new untreated timber navy bulkheading consisting of removing a 14'northwesterly section, a 61.5' northerly section and a 4'northeasterly section of existing storm-damaged bulkheading; replace the existing 41' westerly section with a new 27.5' section, a new 62.5'northerly section installed in an angled position, and replace existing 41.5' section with new 38.5' easterly section; install 61.5' of proposed toe-armor consisting of 2-4 ton (minimum of!>18"x18"x18") stone laid out in a single row with geotextile filter fabric placed underneath along the seaward edge of new northerly bulkheading; replace existing 10'wide by 36.5' long seaward side deck with untreated lumber in same place supported by five (5) 10"x20" pressure treated timber pilings with the westerly side of the deck to be cantilevered over new bulkhead; remove two (2) existing storm damaged 12'x36.5'+- side yard decks; remove existing 5.5' wide by 61.5' long section of northerly decking; install approximately 320 cubic yards of clean beach sand backfill within a +-38x5'x61.5' area to raise the grade landward of the new bulk heading to be level with County Road 48; and for the existing 26.4'x36.3' two-story dwelling; and as depicted on the site plan prepared by Bulkhead Permits by Gary, Inc., last dated February 14, 2019 within a near shore area in a Coastal Erosion Hazard Area located on property on parcel SCTM41000-44-2-15 at 58425 North Road, Greenport, New York and directs the Town Clerk to publish a notice of such appeal in the Suffolk Times newspaper not less than ten (10) days nor more than thirty (3 0) days prior to such hearing and to notify the applicant by first class mail. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I am going to open the floor for public comment. Coastal Erosion Appeal-Bashian continued August 13, 2019 page 2 COUNCILMAN GHOSIO: Inaudible. SCOTT MOSES: Scott Moses, Bulkhead Permits by Gary. GARY MOSES: Gary Moses, Bulkhead Permits by Gary. TOWN ATTORNEY DUFFY: I think the last time you were here you were looking to get access from the County, for the county property to access the subject property where you want to do the work? Have you had any luck with that? MR. MOSES: Yes. COUNCILMAN GHOSIO: What was the progress? MR. MOSES: The county representative wasn't available for a week, that's in charge. He's available now but he's not available, they go out on calls or whatever. We spoke to the Commissioners office last night, they said they didn't have a problem with approving this. We tried, they tried to get it to us by the end of the workday, they couldn't. We'll probably get it today, we can fax it over to you. Sometime during the day. Inaudible. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Where there any other issues or concerns raised at the last meeting? TOWN ATTORNEY DUFFY: Just in terms of, about the ability of people walking under the deck... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yes, cantilever over the bulkhead, over the deck. MR. MOSES: What happens with that is the Board of Trustees makes you pull back the bulkhead to be five feet from the structure. Of course it's five feet from the structure at one point. What is going to happen is that during storm tides the water is going to hit the house by the design that the Board of trustees recommended. I went over it with my engineer, he agreed to approve it but it really isn't a good idea. Where the cantilever is now, there are piles there that will act as a natural break. If we remove the cantilever every single spring tide, every single storm tide will hit the structure of the house and we'll be right back here, probably after a year. The original structure that the board approved was substandard and that's why it failed. Inaudible. Most of the towns wouldn't have approved that, would have insisted on some type of cross tie, when you put a cross tie on pilings, it makes it like the rock of Gibraltor. With 3/4 inch tie rods what happened when storm tides hit that structure, the pilings came back and bent the tie rods. That's what caused the fail. I wrote these comments to the applicant's insurance company, that that should never have been approved by the board. The structures you are approving now, what you are demanding, is worse. What happened was we have already been directed to pull this, the deck back four feet and pull the bulkhead back to almost five feet from the structure. It really isn't a good idea. The application agreed to it just to expedite it but if you mandate that, it's going to be a major problem in my opinion. I have been doing this for 20 years. And prior to this I was a police lieutenant in the NYPD harbor unit and I used to approve these for major Coastal Erosion Appeal-Bashian continued August 13, 2019 page 3 projects. Like I used to approve these for major projects, like bridges and dredging projects so I have a lot of experience in this and it really isn't a good idea to do what you are recommending. COUNCILMAN GHOSIO: So basically what you are saying is if you do what is being approved currently which MR. MOSES: Inaudible: TOWN ATTORNEY DUFFY: Just to be clear, this Board hasn't approved anything or directing anything, that was the Board of Trustees. MR. MOSES: Correct. But now you've got what you guys are doing, you're making us pull it back further and structurally it's a really bad idea. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: In the interest of clarity, we didn't make you do anything but raise what we think are important questions and those questions needed answers. We didn't make, we didn't suggest, we didn't make a decision of any kind. MR. MOSES: Right. But the way the Board of Trustees presented it, it was, you know, that wouldn't been approved unless we didn't comply with their directions but in an effort to expedite it, we went along with it. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I can't speak to the intent or the perceptions of another board, they are an entirely different independent board, they are not the Town Board. We have no authority to direct their decision making and they certainly have no ability to anticipate ours. MR. MOSES: Well, that's fine but just for the record, that's my opinion. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: So let me ask you a question, do you want us to move ahead with this or do you want to go back to the Trustees and reapply? MR. MOSES: Absolutely no. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: Okay. MR. MOSES: We want to get it built, we want to repair the house, right now it's really not livable. Just to move ahead with it then. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: So you're saying.... MR. MOSES: Absolutely no. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: Okay. MR. MOSES: We want to get it built, we want to repair the house, right now it's really not livable. Just to move ahead with it then. Coastal Erosion Appeal-Bashian continued August 13, 2019 page 4 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: So you're saying.... MR. MOSES: I think we can cross tie and we can live with what we have. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: So in your description to the Trustees, you are cross tying it? MR. MOSES: We are going to cross tie, yeah. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: Okay. MR. MOSES: It has to be cross tied. if you got to the entrance, everything is cross tied. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: I understand that but I am just asking, you are okay as long as you cross tie it, is what the Trustees (inaudible) a wetland permit. MR. MOSES: We are okay with this but the cantilevers are the problem. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: Okay. Let me ask you this, when you cantilever the deck over the bulkhead what is the distance between the beach and the bottom of the deck? MR. MOSES: Well, originally it was 14 feet but now we have it at (inaudible) probably like i said, five feet at one point. From the actual structure... COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: No, in the height. Inaudible. From ground level... MR. MOSES: Oh, it's eight or nine feet. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: Eight feet, so somebody could potentially walk under it at low tide. MR. MOSES: It would depend on the tide. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: Yes, at low tide. MR. MOSES: At low tide you can walk under it. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: Okay. Thank you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: You had described the necessity from an engineering perspective, of course, if you didn't go out that far with the deck everything you said is kind of moot at this point. MR. MOSES: The piles act as a natural break, you know just like plants (inaudible) without the natural break, I think it's going to be an issue. Coastal Erosion Appeal-Bashian continued August 13, 2019 page 5 SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: And just with regard to the structural integrity of the house, the dwelling itself... MR. MOSES: The structure, the integrity of the house, especially with as far back as you want the bulkhead pulled. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: As the Trustees want the bulkhead. MR. MOSES: Correct. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: An elevated deck is necessary for the protection of the house is what you are saying? MR. MOSES: I think that the higher the piles, the better the wave break is going to be. COUNCILMAN GHOSIO: I am just a little bit concerned to think that with the first statement that you made that you know, you didn't feel that this was going to be very productive or even sufficient to protect it to begin with. MR. MOSES: Inaudible. COUNCILMAN GHOSIO: Why would you, in good conscience, relinquish to a suggestion that you don't think is going to work? MR. MOSES: Well, like I said, my engineer said he would live with it but it would have been better to pull it out (inaudible) leave it where it was. What they wanted us to do was run cross tie and tie into both bulkheads you know, but if we were to tie it in (inaudible) but structurally it would have been better. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: Your engineer feels that the way that it is designed now... MR. MOSES: He can live with it but not less. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: So when you say live with it, he feels that engineer wise... MR MOSES: He signed off on it. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: Okay. COUNCILMAN GHOSIO: But doesn't think it's sufficient. MR. MOSES: But does think it's sufficient, right but it would be better if the bulkhead was further back. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: May I ask a question? Coastal Erosion Appeal-Bashian continued August 13, 2019 page 6 MR. MOSES: Sure. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: I am a little confused as to the piece of paper you are holding in your hand, does that match exactly what the Trustees approved? MR. MOSES: Yes. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: Okay, so, in the end you can live with what's there? MR. MOSES: Correct. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: And you are about 8 feet,the water is not there. MR. MOSES: It's five feet in one section. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: The height. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: Height. Inaudible. MR. MOSES: You still have tidal issues... COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: We understand that. MR. MOSES: Inaudible. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: Well, people want to have that right... MR. MOSES: Well, they can walk by, it's really not an issue. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: One more thing, you will be able to do this if the county allows you to go on their land? MR. MOSES: It's never been a problem with the county, I mean, I've never had a problem with any structure (inaudible) it's never been a problem. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: Personally I just, I just, the last meeting kind of took me, I just kind of got upset that that plan wasn't made, that no permission was asked, you have this project, how are you going to get it done? MR. MOSES: Right. I mean, how can we ask for something that we don't know is going to be approved or not? Tell Suffolk County we want to build this thing but we don't know if they'll let us build it? I mean to me that doesn't make sense. Coastal Erosion Appeal-Bashian continued August 13, 2019 page 7 COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: Well, no but you are telling your customer you want to build it but you don't know how you are going to build it. MR. MOSES: Inaudible. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: We know that, now we know, you are well aware that you can build that as long as you get permission from the... ' MR. MOSES: Stipulation of the permit, no problem. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: Right. Okay. That's all I, I just didn't see the plan. MR. MOSES: Right. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: Unless you are going, trespassing on somebody else's property on how you were going to accomplish that. After you were asked if you could bring a barge in, you said no... MR. MOSES: What you would do is you would jet drive it in and you would bang it in. That's a pretty standard installation. It's very common installation. It's typical. You don't really need a barge, you don't get the swing and you would never get the depth. A barge would get stuck on the beach at low tide. And the swing on the boom is probably going to be about 50 feet. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: We don't know that. MR. MOSES: Right. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: That's why we ask you this first. MR. MOSES: That's why I came today. I assure you, the integrity of this will be fine, the contractor is licensed and insured. We have dealt with him numerous times, it wasn't an issue. I went through his work, it wasn't an issue. COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: Who is the contractor? MR. MOSES: Inaudible. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: And just another statement you made, this is going to last awhile? MR. MOSES: It's a 30 year application. It's already been approved by the DEC, the Army Corps of Engineers, the Department of State, if it's not a 30 year application they won't approve it. COUNCILMAN DINIZIO: Thank you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Is there a sense from this Board that you want to close this hearing? Coastal Erosion Appeal-Bashian continued August 13, 2019 page 8 COUNCILWOMAN DOHERTY: I don't have any further questions. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Can I get a motion to close this hearing? This hearing was closed at 9:13 AM Lynda M. Rudder Southold Deputy Town Clerk