HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-09/12/2019 Hearing { I .,
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK: STATE OF NEW YORK
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TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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Southold Town Hall
Southold, New York
September 12, 2019
10:02 A.M.
Board Members Present:
LESLIE KANES WEISMAN - Chairperson/Member
PATRICIA ACAMPORA—Member
ERIC DANTES— Member
ROBERT LEHNERT—Member
NICHOLAS PLANAMENTO— Member
KIM FUENTES— Board Assistant
WILLIAM DUFFY—Town Attorney
September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
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INDEX OF HEARINGS
Hearing Page
Michael and Mary Heagerty#7308 3-6
James Kuhlmann #7310 6 - 9
Silvia Campo and David Hermer#7311 9 - 17
Joseph and Barbara Lazzaro # 7312 17 - 19
Karen Kraebel Ahlers #7314 SE 19 - 26
Karen Kraebel Ahlers #7315 19 - 26
Brian Keller# 7319 26- 29
Frederick Liguori # 7318 29 - 34
Robert Yedid # 7309 35 - 48
Kevin S. McLeod and Chun Y. Cheung#7313 48 - 53
Brad and Kathryn Piecuch #7288 53 - 63
September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
HEARING#7308- MICHAEL and MARY HEAGERTY
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The first application before the Board this morning is for Michael
and Mary Heagerty #7308. This is a request for variances from Article III Section 280-15, Article
XXIII Section 280-124 and the Building Inspector's February 5, 2019 amended May 6, 2019
Notice of Disapproval based on an application to construct an accessory garage at 1) located in
other than the code permitted rear yard, 2) located less than the code required front yard
setback of 40 feet, 3) located less than the code required rear yard setback of 15 feet located at
10550 Nassau Point Rd. (adj. to Little Peconic Bay) in Cutchogue.
TOM SAMUELS : Tom Samuels architect on behalf of Mary and Michael Heagerty who are here.
Basically this is a very unusual piece of property if you visited you've seen it's long and narrow
which has no proper rear yard in the conventional sense of the word. On waterfront parcels
accessory structures can be located in the front yard but do not meet the setback. It's also very
topographically active so to speak. It's a hill and there's a sanitary system behind the wall.
There's very little level ground there and so we feel this is the only place to put a relatively
small garage structure with a loft above. Basically I'm here to answer any questions and help
you guys make a decision.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Everyone has a survey out? Let's see what questions the Board
might have. Let's start down at the end with Rob.
MEMBER LEHNERT : I don't have any questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : This looks as though it's partially in a front yard and partially in a side
yard. I guess the Building Department made a determination as to what's front and what's side.
TOM SAMUELS : It's a triangle so it's not a conventional lot shape at all. Yes it is within the
required front yard setback. It's also I suppose in the side yard. We tried to maintain you know
whatever we could for separations but it's really tricky because of the shape of the lot and the
way that the topography works.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well let me enter into the record just so that it's clear that it's
partially the location but here are also variances required for a front yard setback at 12.8 feet
where the code requires 40 feet and the third would be for a rear yard setback at 9 feet 10
inches where the code requires 15 feet for a building of that height on that sized lot; the
proposed height is 20 feet.
TOM SAMUELS : Yes.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MEMBER DANTES : I don't understand Leslie is why they wrote it as a front the garage partially
located in the front yard at all cause isn't it a code conforming location on waterfront lots?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : But you have to meet setback.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : But it is one of the let's take the Notice out.
MEMER DANTES : (inaudible) they'll need a variance either way.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : They said it had to be in the required rear yard but I agree with you,
on waterfront properties accessory structures are permitted in a
MEMBER LEHNERT : It has to meet the setbacks.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes but that's another story. I mean they could have written it a
little differently to make it clear that the non-conforming location is non-conforming partially
because of the setbacks. It doesn't really matter. The bottom line is they're looking at the road
frontage because in a sense the house faces the road and the water is in the side yard so it's a
very, very odd situation.
TOM SAMUELS : It's an odd situation.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well we've all done an inspection and obviously you're totally
correct, the slopes are really dramatic and there's only a very small level piece of level land,
anything from you Nick?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Yes, Tom would you clarify, the application states no utilities, no
bathrooms etc. but on the plans it shows a half bath.
TOM SAMUELS : Yes, we went in originally with having any plumbing at all and it was in the
midst of the process that Michael and Mary came to me and said it actually would be very
handy to have a half bath in the structure to support the accessory uses that they intend to do
them in the structure so we came back with a new drawing. To be honest I did not know this is
(inaudible) we're still in the Health Department on that but it would be very handy to have that
half bath in there. So I recognize that in my reasons for the appeal it refers to no sanitary but
we actually would like to put that.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : And you are in the process of applying to Suffolk County Board of
Health?
TOM SAMUELS • Correct, yes we need their approval and then we'll require pumps and it's a
complicated application to them as well because of topography. I mean to pump sewage uphill
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
to get to the sanitary system which is above, this building is kind of like in a hole in a way
(inaudible) with all the retaining walls so it's tricky.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : And then your second floor in this garage structure is labeled as
storage, is there any proposed finishing to that room?
TOM SAMUELS : Yeah we do intend to finish it just because we would like to insulate this so we
can keep out the heat in the summertime and you know just try to temper the space a little bit
and if you insulate something you have to put you have to finish it just because it's code,
building code.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Will you be finishing the walls on the first floor?
TOM SAMUELS : Probably so, I'm not really sure to be honest. If that makes a difference or not
we can again give you a proper answer on that but I would say yes we would like the
opportunity. It just keeps it all so much cleaner and neater. It's a small structure but to have the
open stud just you know breeds a lot of insects and stuff and would like to keep it clean.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So electric and plumbing. The next question you mentioned
proposed accessory uses that this half bath would be handy for, a garage is essentially a place
to store cars so what kind of accessory uses are you considering?
TOM SAMUELS : Those which are permissible, basically some working on things just kind of the
kind of things people do (inaudible) outbuildings I guess. Obviously it can't be habitable we
understand that-or uses that are not permitted in accessory structures.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you want to address the LWRP in any way? They indicate that it's
inconsistent. No I'm sorry it's consistent you don't have to address this.
TOM SAMUELS : And we agree with that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's way, way far away from the water. Anything from you Pat or
Eric? Anyone in the audience wishing to address the application? Hearing no further questions
or comments I'll make a motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a
second?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution)
HEARING #7310—JAMES KUHLMANN
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for James Kuhlman #7310.
This is a request for a variance from Article III Section 280-15 and the Building Inspector's
March 14, 2019 Notice of Disapproval based on an application to construct an accessory garage
at 1) located in other than the code required rear yard located at 635 Church Lane in
Cutchogue. Would you state your name for the record please.
PATRICK MICELI : Patrick Miceli Contracting.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : This is an accessory garage and the Building Department has
determined it's a 31 X 24 foot in the front yard where the code requires a rear yard. The gravel
well you sort of have a gravel road that's kind of almost grassed over in what would I guess be
the rear yard.
PATRICK MICELI : Correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Church Lane would be where the front of the house is located?
PATRICK MICELI : Yes initially that's what we were told. This went to the Town Engineer and
they determined that Church Lane is actually considered the rear yard cause it's not a legal
town road and Zion Rd. is considered actually the front yard.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So that gravel road is a named road it's called Zion Rd?
PATRICK MICELI : Correct, yes. We were told we have two front yards.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes that is correct. We did receive those comments from the Town
Engineer and apparently Church Lane which looks like a proper street is actually owned by the
town. It's not a road per say, it's only and legally deeded access for the subject property which
is town property. It's not listed as a town road. The request is for the applicant to essentially
start to use Zion is that what it's called as access to their property rather than Church Lane. I'm
just entering that into the record. If in fact that is then determined Church Lane is determined
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
not to be a front yard because it's not legally accessible, if you move that garage closer to
Church Lane you won't even need a variance. The problem is however then your existing
driveway is going out to Church Lane.
PATRICK MICELI : Are we allowed to continue to use Church Lane?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think not. I think legally there's
T. A. DUFFY : This Board can't make a decision as to whether you have legal access to Church
Lane or not.
PATRICK MICELI : Would it be better for us to just say to seek to get it approved where it is so
that we have an approval in place and then always move it back if we decide to do so?
MEMBER DANTES : This is the engineer's letter it's not the Building Department's letter. They
might still come back and ask for a variance anyway cause they might not agree.
PATRICK MICELI : We prefer to just go for the variance and
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well we don't have the jurisdiction anyway to look at what is deeded
with the town and what's a public.
PATRICK MICELI : I think we prefer to just leave everything
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Where it is?
PATRICK MICELI : Yeah.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN Does that make sense to the Board, Nick, Rob? Does that make
sense, let them be before us for as applied for and then they'll have to work it out with I guess
whomever who do they go to Bill for that kind of information.
T. A. DUFFY : They come to my office.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Did you hear that? If you want some legal opinion as to how to
proceed with straightening that out since we now have part of our public record from the Town
Engineer
MEMBER LEHNERT : Don't they need to make an application for a curb cut?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don't know.
MEMBER DANTES : The house is pretty old. It looks like this has been used as a driveway for a
long time.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well Zion Lane is almost grassed over. I don't even know how you
would (inaudible) I'm sorry would you come to the mic and state your name.
JAMES KUHLMAN : I'm sorry, hi I'm James Kuhlman. Zion is actually the right of way which the
church has to provide cause they sold that property
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : To the town?
JAMES KUHLMAN : Right, right and (.,guess at some point when they altered the dump things
changed on Church Lane or something like that but that was our confusion, which was the front
which was the back and it appeared that Church Lane was the front yard that there was no back
yard but apparently there's plenty of back yard.
MEMBER DANTES : Does anyone plow that road?
JAMES KUHLMAN : I guess the town plows the church, I guess we're responsible for maintaining
Zion if it's a right of way.
MEMBER DANTES : But if the town is already plowing
JAMES KUHLMAN : I know they don't plow Zion.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well I think this super cedes what jurisdiction this Board has. We can
simply note in our record that these comments were made and that there is some concern
about the legal access but if you do not legally have an access to Church Lane then in fact and
the same is true for a right of way. If you can't drive over that road then it is not considered
front yard.
JAMES KULMAN : Oh it's usable. I do drive down Zion. You can get down Zion and some of the
trees are (inaudible) over a little bit and they need to be trimmed up a bit but it is usable. It's
not the prettiest road but it's usable.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay and you would prefer then to have a 43 foot setback from
Zion. That's what is proposed a 43 foot. It makes sense if you're probably going to use that road
more frequently that may be you want to consider some gravel driveway in from Zion.
JAMES KUHLMAN : Yeah the only (inaudible) if we put the doors on the Zion side which is the
sunny side anyway.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Does that make sense to everybody? And there is to be no heat in
the structure, no plumbing?
JAMES KUHLMAN : No.
September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Electric?
JAMES KUHLMAN : Electric, yes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I'm just going to make a note in here you indicated that the doors
for the garage will face Zion.
JAMES KUHLMAN : Yes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything from the Board, Pat, Eric, Nick?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : No questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone else in the audience who wants to address the
application? Hearing no further comments I'll make a motion to close the hearing reserve
decision to a later date is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution)
HEARING # 7311—SILVIA CAMPO and DAVID HERMER
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Silvia Campo and David
Hermer # 7311. This is a request for a variances from Article XXII Section 280-116A(1) and the
Building Inspector's February 20, 2019 Notice of Disapproval based on an application to
demolish and reconstruct the existing retaining wall and two accessory decks at 1) retaining
wall is located less than the code required 100 feet from the top of the bluff, 2) deck is located
less than the code required 100 feet from the top of the bluff, 3) deck is located seaward of the
top of the bluff, not permitted located at 3675 Nassau Point Rd. (adj. to Little Peconic Bay) in
Cutchogue.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
PAT MOORE : Patricia Moore on behalf of the applicants. I also have Shawn Leonard here who
is the architect so if we need specific answers he's my backup. I will address the retaining walls
first just for hoping things make sense. The existing house was built in 1985. We have a C. of 0.
for '85. At the time the house was built there were two wooden retaining walls they're
landscape retaining walls that run perpendicular to the top of the bluff. For those all of you
have been there to see it in the back yard those retaining walls hold back the soil because it's a
full floor between the grade on the east side of the property and the grade of the west side of
the property. So those two retaining walls are about thirty years old now. They should be
replaced and to be consistent with the rest of the design of the landscaping, instead of wood it
would be cement retaining walls. I have for you a cross section of the retaining wall I don't
recall I don't think the plans showed it originally so I had the architects provide just a cross
section so you can see the footing and the wall and I'll provide that for you right now.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I was just asking Kim if we received Suffolk County Soil and Water
comments on this, I don't believe we did. We have an LWRP that's indicating it to be consistent.
PAT MOORE : Sorry I thought I made enough copies but I only have one, it's pretty simple. The
goal is obviously.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Actually we have this Pat.
PAT MOORE : Oh you do? Alright, one of the issues was how far those retaining walls have to go
to the top of the bluff. We believe that when they are replaced we can shorten them up a little
bit and not go beyond the 10 foot buffer. So the retaining walls that are there now can actually
be shortened up because as the wall extends towards the top of the bluff you get to a zero
difference between the wall and the grade so we could shorten them up and we could if the
Board will agree that we will just place a maximum distance of the wall to the bluff not
exceeding the 10 foot buffer. That should give us plenty of room to adjust with the landscaper
where the grade ends and the wall ends. So that was more of unfortunately when you're
dealing with retaining walls and construction some of it is at the site and grading and so on so
we know we have to replace them but they don't have to go quite as long as the wood ones
extend towards the bluff. Any questions on the retaining walls?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let me just enter into the record what the variances are. The first is
for a retaining wall at 7 foot from the top of the bluff the code requiring 100 feet. The second is
a 9 foot 5 inch by 8 foot 3 inch accessory deck at 0 bluff setback.
PAT MOORE : Well I haven't reached I haven't talked about that.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No I'm just going to put these all on the record that's all. The third
one is for a 9 foot 5 inch by 9 foot 5 inch deck located seaward of the top of the bluff. Now you
got Trustees approval I gather for this.
PAT MOORE : Well, no we couldn't get a Trustee approval until the Zoning Board granted this so
we have to go back. We got Trustee approval for everything that's there except the retaining
wall and the stairs because once we get the approval here we'll go back and amend our permit
to include these two structures but part of the permitting process of the Trustees was the 10
foot non-turf.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay so that's why that's on the survey.
MEMBER DANTES : You said stairs Pat, I don't think we have anything to do with the stairs.
PAT MOORE : Generally you don't.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No we're talking about retaining walls and decks.
PAT MOORE : No just the landings.
MEMBER DANTES : Oh the landings.
PAT MOORE : Yeah and I was talking to the architect and the client and sometimes I've had
landings be Board review and sometimes they're not and I don't seem to have a really clear
understanding of when they do and when they don't. In this case we were coming here for the
retaining walls so I didn't fight it too much but it's really confusing and when you're ready we'll
talk about the landings if that's permissible. So the landings it appears that the Zoning Board
had granted permission for the house when it was first constructed for the decks cause at that
time you had jurisdiction 75 feet from the bulkhead. I don't believe the stairs were a part of
that proposed at the time because they were beach stairs and usually don't build them until the
house is ready to be occupied. Those stairs were built about that time so they've been there
the entire time. My clients when they bought the property those stairs were there. When they
bought also I don't think the Trustees had the interpretation that if it didn't have a permit you
couldn't repair them but since they've now changed the code so we would have gone in and
that's what prompted all of this was when we went in to the Trustees to seek a permit for
everything that's existing in order to be able to continue to maintain it and that's what then
brought us here because those stairs with the landings. The landings the Building Department
said well you know they're decks. I don't agree. I don't believe that they're decks. I think they're
landings and actually LWRP made a recommendation or they said it's inconsistent with the top
one. Let's talk about the top landing or the top decking as the Building Department describes it.
It is somewhat cantilevered where the top of the bluff is and that's the way it was constructed
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
and the stairs run and the run of the stairs is based on that landing. The client actually only
intends to do a replacement of the boards. They don't want to spend the money to replace the
entire stairs but I put in the language of replacement just in case you end up with a fifty percent
repair when you start taking the boards down and you find that there's a structural repair that's
needed. I didn't want to get into a position where oops we went one more board beyond what
should have been allowed. So my description has a replacement. That is not what they're trying
to do. They are just trying to resurface the boards because those are thirty years old and they
are in need. Now she asked well can I paint them, yeah you can paint them but you know that
will only last a certain amount of time. So anyway, the goal here as I said is, if in fact we have to
replace the boards it's going to be in kind and in place of the structure so if a post needs to be
replaced we replace the post. The boards on the top obviously need to be replaced. So we
would prefer not to disturb the bank any more than is absolutely necessary. For us to remove
what is the top platform and reduce it in size the alternative I had the architect provide for me
what could be a design change that would reduce the top of the cantilever portion to
essentially a ramp because we have to get from the top to the bottom without changing the
angle of the stairs. We don't want to reconfigure the stairs at all. I have a design and then we
have a platform going on the landward side of the top of the bank. I have a drawing of that for
your review and that is an alternative. Again our goal here is not to replace everything. We
want to keep it in place. Worse comes to worse we got a design. So as you can see if we were to
try to make that upper landing conforming you take the upper landing reduce its width to the
same width as the stairs which are 3 feet and then you push the landing back. That's an
alternative. Again that's only if we were to replace the whole thing then it would make sense to
replace it in a conforming design. So if the Board is willing to provide a decision that allows us a
repair which is what we wanted to do with the Trustees we can minimize the amount of
disturbance if it's a replacement than we're willing to make it conform as far as the top landing.
The lower landing is very common again I don't understand the Building Department's
interpretation because that landing is essentially a little platform landward of the bulkhead.
You see those all the time. It's a place where people may put a chair or put their kayaks or
whatever and ultimately get down to the beach. At the high tide you sit there, if you're at low
tide you're on the beach. So that I don't have an alternative for that. That's just a little platform
and I didn't really know if the LWRP really had any comments about it. I think his comments
tend to be about the top of the bank the cantilevered portion not really discussing the lower
portion. Again it's a very minimal platform no different than any of the platforms that are
typically found along this water body.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Have you thought about at all seeing this alternative design if that
was patio on grade instead of wood that variance goes away you know stone.
PAT MOORE : A stone patio yeah slab.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's because it's wood that they have an issue with it.
PAT MOORE : I think just the amount of disturbance it's just a lot more digging at the top of the
bank and we prefer I think it's less disturbance on a property just putting some posts and then
the decking on top than actually digging in and placing stone at the top. It's a matter of you
know amount of disturbance and again we're trying very hard not to disturb this property if at
all possible. Certainly that's an alternative and which is better I don't know.
SHAWN LEONARD : Shawn Leonard I'm the architect for the project. When my client came to
me as Pat had mentioned in the beginning all she said I just want to replace some of the deck
boards and that's what led us to what we need to go to the Trustees and we went to the
Trustees and what led us to you. Her goal really is to leave as much structure alone and all she
wanted to do was just replace the deck boards that are splintering as you go up and down and
then that's so as much as she can just leave everything alone and we looked at the structure
that's there all the posts look like everything is in good shape. All the from what we can see and
observe so far the joists are in good shape so we thought well what we'll be doing would just be
replacements and that would be the least evasive of everything.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well if you were to do the alternative you'd just give it to us you
know just connect the location-of the existing steps with a little walkway and then put that 9.5
X 8.3 we'll call it a deck cause it's bigger than a landing legally so if you were do you think
there's less disturbance by putting wood on that top of the bluff than putting down some
pavers?
SHAWN LEONARD : I believe so because then at that point all they have to do is just for this
size just dig four post holes and put that in and then they can frame right on top and can be
done with it as opposed to try and dig and create a footing or anything like that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright let's see if the Board has any questions, Pat?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric.
MEMBER DANTES : No.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Nick.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : No questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Rob.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MEMBER LEHNERT : I have no questions just a comment. To my understanding you're allowed
to repair these structures without really getting any permit.
PAT MOORE : No the Trustees say that you can repair a permitted structure and if
MEMBER LEHNERT : Oh okay.
PAT MOORE : (inaudible) and only we know what it means yeah so that's what prompted us to
go to the Trustees.
MEMBER LEHNERT : It wasn't permitted.
PAT MOORE : Exactly it was pre-existing (inaudible)
MEMBER LEHNERT : Cause I repaired a lot of these things and
PAT MOORE : Exactly constantly.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : One thing that I'll note is that if you do look at character of the
neighborhood there's not a home along that stretch that doesn't have something very similar
to this.
PAT MOORE : Exactly and I know we've repaired them and they have Trustee approval and
MEMBER LEHNERT : I've repaired countless of numbers of these things up and down that whole
strip.
PAT MOORE : I just don't understand. It would be helpful at some point either the code is
modified or you guys send a little interpretation that way that says, guys if it's you know if it's a
repair truly a repair you know you don't need a variance from this Board, we don't consider it a
deck. Since the code the Trustees (inaudible) allows you to have up to}200 sq. ft. why are we
MEMBER LEHNERT : I think you got caught in that non-permitted loop hole.
PAT MOORE : I guess yeah but the (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you want to consider you want to call this an amended if the
Board wants to take a look at this you want to call this amended relief?
PAT MOORE : Alternative relief.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alternative well alternative would be if we told you what to do. If
you submit it to us then it's amended.
September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
PAT MOORE : I want to amend it only if we're getting rid of this. I don't want to amend as really
our preference. We don't want to do anything. We want to just do the maintenance the repair
that is the (inaudible). If we are to if by chance and you know as well as I do that all of a sudden
you find out you've got more rot than was evident above grade you're replacing so I don't since
we're here on a variance the only actually interestingly enough the replacement is really not
the stairs. So if the stairs have rot no problem we can replace them because the Trustees
permit is going to be part of the maintenance program. It's really just the deck and we already
know the deck is pretty much fine.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So, Pat has anyone investigated the footings of that deck?
SHAWN LEONARD : Yes we've actually looked at the posts that are in and the posts are all in
good shape that go down into the ground currently so we didn't see anything that was alarming
to us or we felt like there was anything that would require us to even have to replace those at
this time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well the Board will have a discussion and see which direction.
PAT MOORE : Just one issue with respect to the non-turf buffer. I just asks that you leave it to
the Trustees cause when I go back to the Trustees our landscaper suggested that we not pull
out the grass, we let it grow be non-mowed rather than pull it out and (inaudible) just sand
because that may cause more disturbance. So that would require the Trustees conversation but
if you guys add it I'm in two Boards and I'm discussing that with both Boards.
MEMBER DANTES : You want a vegetated buffer?
PAT MOORE : Well in order to make it 'vegetated we'd have to remove the grass and the
landscaper is saying he doesn't recommend actually pulling the grass out just let it grow do it as
a non-mowed. It's not really those wetlands grasses it's standard no, no we don't want it non-
disturbance because
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That means you can't dig.
PAT MOORE : I'm just asking you don't need to deal with it, it will be dealt with the Trustees.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anyone in the audience please come forward.
JEAN MOORE : Jean Moore 3485 Nassau Point Rd. and I'm adjacent to the work that's being
done and the only thing I have a real problem with is the retaining walls even the lengths that
have been put up are totally out of character with the rest of the area and I personally maybe it
doesn't matter to anybody would not want to be looking at a cement wall because it's right
next to my deck. So that's the only comment I wanted to make.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Ms. Moore you live to the north of the site?
JEAN MOORE : Yes.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So which walls are you referring to the proposed retaining wall that's
in discussion or these large sort of concrete blocks that were put below the driveway for I guess
a tennis court?
JEAN MOORE : I'm not those are there so I'm just stuck with that. I just don't want that type of
structure if it's possible directly next to my deck in the front on the bay side. Is that the
retaining wall they're talking about?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Well the proposed application is for a retaining wall that's sort of the
midpoint of the property and your property
TALKING BETWEEN JEAN MOORE AND PAT MOORE (inaudible)
JEAN MOORE : The front of my house is right next to the deck.
PAT MOORE : I'm just trying to help.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I understand but I'd like them to have a moment to talk without
closing the hearing in case there's some
PAT MOORE : Oh do you want us to go into the hallway?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No you can I'm just saying do it quickly and do it here so that we
don't have to
(APPLICANT'S ATTORNEY IS, CONFERING WITH THE_NEIGHBOR TO EXPLAIN WHAT IS BEING
PROPOSED FORrvT,HE RETAINING WALLS)",
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you understand now what's being proposed?
JEAN MOORE : Yes it's where the propane tank used to be.
SHAWN LEONARD : It is further. EXPLAINING TO JEAN MOORE THE LOCATION.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So is there anyone else in the audience? Hearing no further
questions of comments I'm going to make a motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a
later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution)
HEARING#7312—JOSEPH and BARBARA LAZZARO
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Joseph and Barbara
Lazzaro # 7312. This is a request for a variance from Article XXIII Section 280-124 and the
Building Inspector's February 8, 2019 Notice of Disapproval based on an application to legalize
"as built" additions and alterations to an existing single family dwelling at 1) less than the code
required minimum front yard setback of 35 feet located at 400 Legion Ave. in Mattituck. Please
state your name for us.
JOE OLIVIERI : Good morning my name is Joe Olivieri.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So you got a Stop Work Order because apparently according to a
letter of support from the I guess Pastor George Summers this house burnt and
JOE OLIVIERI : Yes they suffered a fire.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : the construction exceeds the scope of the building permit it looks
like. You're proposing a second floor interior construction to expand the living space with a
non-conforming footprint on the first floor and there's a new deck under construction but it
doesn't decrease the non-conforming front yard setback of the existing house. It's a corner lot.
JOE OLIVIERI : It's a corner lot that's the biggest problem with the lot. If it wasn't a corner lot we
wouldn't be standing before you. We did not change the envelope of the house. Basically we're
finishing an attic and when we finish that attic because that second level is too close 19 foot 1
instead of the required front yard setback that's why we're here and yes we added a rear deck
to mirror the front existing porch but we did not go closer to the property line.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let's see if the Board has questions, Nick.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I want to just inquire about the sanitary. The existing house would
appear to be a two bedroom home. You're now finishing the attic area and it will become a
three bedroom home. Have you made application to Suffolk County Board of Health for an
expanded waste water system?
JEREMY DAVIS : Good morning I'm Jeremy Davis, Josephs' and Barbara's son and it was a three
bedroom house actually. There was two bedrooms on the first floor and one bedroom on the
second floor when they bought the house and what we did was we made the first floor a single
bedroom and the upstairs a bedroom and a bathroom and the room to the right originally
wasn't even going to be finished. It was just going to be storage but when I spoke to my
architect he said that it would be considered a bedroom. So it's a three bedroom home and it
stayed a three bedroom home.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So the septic is designed for a three bedroom house?
JEREMY DAVIS : Yes.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Do you have a septic certification or
JEREMY DAVIS : (inaudible) Suffolk County Board of Health on any level. Nor did the Building
Department require us to.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric any questions?
MEMBER DANTES : I'm looking at and it looks like the property card has a building permit for
demolition so I guess the demolition was done by permit then?
JOE OLIVIERI : Yes we did pull a permit, we did do a set of drawings after the fire (inaudible)
from a previous architect and there was a set of drawings done for the renovation after the fire
but it did not include the renovations of the second floor.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So the permit was issued for the first floor renovations?
JOE OLIVIERI : Exactly and then we had a Stop Work Order and then my client hired me to take
over the project to do a more detailed set of drawings an accurate depiction of what was
actually going to be constructed and we received a temporary building permit to do the first
floor work to get the owner of the home to move back into the house. He's been living in a
trailer behind the house for a year. I think that's some of the reasons why we've gotten such
support from the neighbors. They want to see this gentleman back in his house.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Pat anything?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anyone in the audience who wishes to address the application? I'm
going to make a motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date, is there a second?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution)
HEARING #7314SE & 7315—KAREN KRAEBEL AHLERS
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Karen Kraebel Ahlers
#7315. This is a request for a Special Exception under Article III Section 280-13B(13). The
applicant is the owner of the subject property requesting permission to create an accessory
apartment in an existing accessory structure at 255 Sixth Street in Laurel. I'm going to open up
the second application at the same time so that we can talk about all of it together. It makes
sense to do it that way. The second application for the same property owner is # 7315. This is a
request for variances from Article III Section 280-15 and the Building Inspector's April 8, 2019
Notice of Disapproval based on an application to construct additions and alterations to an
existing accessory building and convert it to an accessory apartment at 1) less than the code
required minimum side yard setback of 10 feet, 2) more than the code required maximum
height of 20 feet located at 255 Sixth Street in Laurel. Please state your name for the record
please.
KAREN DINIZIO : Karen Dinizio.
NICK MAZZAFERRO : Nicholas Mazzaferro. I'm the engineer for Karen.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So let's enter into the record what we're looking at here. Tell us a bit
about who is going to be living in this proposed accessory well let me start with the other one
it's easier. You have an existing garage right with an existing height of 21.83 feet is that correct?
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
NICK MAZZAFERRO : That's the proposed height.The existing height
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's the proposed right you're going to open it up for head
clearance yeah and it has a 5 foot 8 inch setback where the code requires a 10 foot setback for
structure over 20 feet high.
NICK MAZZAFERRO : Correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The garage was built in about 1986
NICK MAZZAFERRO : C of 0 is'86.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So those setbacks are in place probably pre-dates what the required
bulk schedule was at that point.
NICK MAZZAFERRO : That's correct. When the C of 0 was issued for the structure that's there
now the setback distance to create a height over 20 feet was 3 foot and at that point and time
where the code read it was at the height it was the average of the gable break and was also
again a 3 foot setback. So if you took the current structure they're proposing and compared it
to the original code it's conforming. So the fact that the code changed (inaudible) the physical
property is really the need for the variance. Two things changed, one is the setback distance
which changed from 3 foot to now it's (inaudible) depending on the different structures and
also the way the ridge height or the building height is calculated has also changed for accessory
structures. It used to be the average of the angle of the slope on a sloped roof and now it's the
full ridge. So in lieu of changing, the updated code is what we (inaudible) what we need for a
variance not the structure itself and the height is required just to generate a minimal 7 foot 6
inch clearance on the inside.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yeah we went inside and you know inspected the property. You're
not proposing to change the footprint in any way?
NICK MAZZAFERRO : Not at all as a matter of fact we're saving the entire ground floor structure.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well the property is on a very small street and it's sort of at a dead
end. The impacts are negligible. Let's talk a little bit about the proposed occupancy. As you
know the owner has to be ;in the residence. You can either occupy the accessory structure or
the dwelling it doesn't matter and your son is going to be living there?
KAREN DINIZIO : Uh huh.
NICK MAZZAFERRO : And the plan is to renovate the main dwelling. My client's intention has a
large piece of property currently in Cutchogue and they're heading towards retirement age so
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
they anticipate plans to build the accessory apartment, her son w�l occupy that. The house will
then be able to be renovated and then they're going to move into that house. It's much smaller
a`much easier place to take care of and then-sell their main place in Cutchogue. So that's the
master plan.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Good to plan ahead. We don't have in our record at least I didn't
find any in my application package any kind of documentation of ownership. Not that we're
mistrusting that you own the property but we need.some sort of deed to indicate that you're
the owner of the property and we need some information on proof of residency of your son. It
can be a birth certificate, an affidavit indicating that the son will be the'occupaint. I don't think
that we have anything in our record. Usually we require some sort of proof not because we
don't believe people but because it's better for our decisions if we can enter into the decision
that we have that evidence that they comply.
NICK MAZZAFERRO : I have the deed. I did go to the county office and pull it. We did write a
letter regarding that overall project and the intent of the occupants and basically the sequence.
MEMBER DANTES : If you don't have the deed on you, you might just walk down to the
Assessor's Office and they might be able to
NICK MAZZAFERRO : I have it right here.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Are you currently' occupying this structure or no you're in
Cutchogue?
KAREN DINIZIO : We're in Cutchogue. We're going 'to down size and move there. That's the
whole thing is downsizing.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Who is currently residing there?
KAREN DINIZIO : My son (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : He's living in the principal dwelling?
KAREN DINIZION : Uh huh.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN It's a little bit out of order simply because usually people are already
residing on the property. So we have to figure out how to handle this perhaps an affidavit of
intent to renovate and move in. Do you have,some timeframe in mind?
NICK MAZZAFERRO : No it's a matter of getting the permits cause'-we can't lock down time
frames until we get the permits toI start because the accessory has got to get built. Once that's
done the existing principal residence is from the 1950's and it was originally seasonal and then
September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
work was done to it recently converted into an all,year round residence. So we got the pre-
existing C. of 0. for that so you know a certified heating system was added so now that's
considered an all year round residence but it is in need. of major renovations to be. able to
occupy for the long term and also you know setting everything up on one floor, three foot
doors in the bathroom the whole thing to be occupied as a senior citizen.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is this going,to be a demolition or are you going actually be able to
repair this to your satisfaction?
NICK MAZZAFERRO : We're not sure I mean the size is going to be able to be maintained the
same as they desire, they're not going to build a very large house but-we have to get in and
evaluate the structure and then 'do the economics 'behind it. So what we have are all
possibilities open. There's a good chance that if the renovation is going to be that extensive and
there's not enough left of the existing structure then we would probably do a demolition and
you know make sure everything is totally code conforming and all the setback and everything is
met cause currently the house I think only has a small setback on one board of the principal.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well personally and I only speak for myself, I don't have a problem
with your proposed plans. Certainly it's appropriate to have additional housing for.family
members. It's just a little unorthodox that the plans are before us before you're actually in
occupancy and we know whether or not you're occupying the dwelling or that's being
demolished and you will be rebuilding and you know so
NICK MAZZAFERRO : Well the reason we got here is because of the height variance. That's
where it all starts. If we did it both, applications together just to be yery,upfront and if the
height variance was required then we would have been able to get issued a building permit we
would have been able to build an accessory structure without a variance and then you would
make the application (inaudible) and then we would come'here for the Special Exception. It's
just kind of funny the way it fell with the required height cause you can't get enough height to
be make it
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN I was in there you need to put in dormers, you need head room
that's code conforming and so on. Let's see anything from you Rob?
MEMBER LEHNERT ,: Is there an application'to the Health Department for septic for the two
structures?
NICK MAZZAFERRO : No we know we definitely have to do the septic. I called Suffolk County
and started that process and they said until you get approval for the accessory apartment you
can't put an-application in because they were going to restrict the size of the septic system to j
just the house. So they said they won't address it until they, i
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There's habitable space in the other
NICK MAZZAFERRO : It's like almost a catch twenty two you know but as soon as we've already
contacted them, we had that all ready to go. We know that's going to take a little bit of time
but they have to be addressed at the same time and the septic system has to upgraded no
matter what it's from the fifties.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Do we also have any documentation for your son as (inaudible) copy of the
driver's license or something like that as a primary?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We'll need to have some documentation that he's living in the
dwelling and an affidavit that
MEMBER LEHNERT : Utility bill, driver's license something like that.
NICK MAZZAFERRO : So the response is going to be set in like the height variance is A and the
other response is B, is that how it's going,to come back as one?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We'll write two separate decisions and as I said this is what's
happening to this Board all the time now, nothing is coming in straightforward anymore. I'll just
tell you what Kim said, this is just dproperty card in our system from the Assessor's Office it's
down as a seasonal residence
NICK MAZZAFERRO : That's been updated.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We probably should go over to the Assessors and let them know.
NICK MAZZAFERRO : We have brand new C. of O.'s issued in April for all year round residence
because we got
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So you have that updated C.O.
NICK MAZZAFERRO : And they have an electrical C. of 0. also April of 2019.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Can you submit those copies.
MEMBER LEHNERT : We got it, it's in the package.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You should take this to the Assessors and tell them to update their
record because they still have you listed as a seasonal and you should get that corrected.
MEMBER LEHNERT : He's got the C. 0. it's in our packet.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yeah but the Assessors information is not correct. Of course they'll
do it you just want to legally correct it in the record. So we should have some documentation of
residency and a driver's license with that address listed, the utility bills; those are the things we
normally get from applicants. Indicate through an affidavit that's notarized that the intent is to
renovate and or build another single family dwelling on the property that you will be occupying.
This will not be transferred to another owner, that there is this family relationship perhaps birth
certificate, this is my son.
NICK MAZZAFERRO : Is that not in the package cause we wrote that, a letter.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There is a letter but
NICK MAZZAFERRO : You want it notarized.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN, : We need to have yeah we need to have a notarized intent and ;
probably a lease of some sort. A lease agreement, you can get them•(inaudible) form nobody
cares what it looks like as long as it's a lease indicating that the occupant will be your son and
you could put the start date on it anytime you want. Right now it's perfectly legal for him to be
in that principle dwelling it's just a dwelling but when you start to look at the Special Exception
permit now you simply have two dwelling units on one property and that's allowed as long as
the occupancy is for affordable unit or for a family member and we approve it. Just submit
whatever you can to document thoroughly the current conditions and your future plans.
NICK MAZZAFERRO : So we'll submit this and that's in regards to Special Exception. Now as far
as the height thing goes cause the height thing allows us to get a permit and allows us to start
the construction process which we want to get done before the season changes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You can start the construction process but you can't turn it into
habitable space until you have the Special Exception to do so. It still needs to be
NICK MAZZAFERRO : A shell.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : An accessory.
NICK MAZZAFERRO : Right cause the type of the work we have to do we have to do the whole
second floor and if we can get it enclosed before the season changes then it becomes very easy i
(inaudible) the inside.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anybody in the audience wanting to address the application?
ii
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
RUTHANNE WOODHULL : Ruthanne Woodhull. I have lived next to them for forty five years and
would trust anything they do and I'm happy to support them. I wanted to hear about it and
see if they needed my help which I don't think they do.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything else from anybody? I think what I'm going to propose is to
close the area variance application and to adjourn the Special Exception to the Special,Meeting
in two weeks so they will have time to submit the things we talked about.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Couldn't we just close it subject to receipt?
CHAIRPERSONVEISMAN : Well we could but-if we had any questions or further things that we
require then we would have to reopen that so it's we'll close it in two weeks if we have
everything we need and no questions,whi'ch is most likely going to be the case but I think we're
it's just clearer and cleaner to leave that option open in the unlikely event there's a question or
something else we want. If we close it subject to receipt of just what's in the record now and
we forgot something then we have to reopen it which is just a waste of time really. I don't
anticipate another public hearing on this, that's not,what I'm saying even if there is something
else,we wanted we can adjourn it without a public hearing and just close it. Do you see what
I'm saying? We're not going to discover anything else so there's no point for-another public
hearing. Everybody all right with that? I'll do these as'two separate motions. With regard to
-application #7314SE I'm going to make a motion to adjourn this,to the Special Meeting on
September 26th. Is there a second?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.-
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. Motion carried September 261h. Then I'm going to make a
motion on application #7315 to close the, hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a
second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
MEMBER-LEHNERT : Aye.
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. We'll have the determination for the variance in two weeks.
That's our next meeting that's the soonest we can do it. I'll put it down to possibly close'this
Special Exception and then we'll see what we manage to get, we'll discuss it and make sure we
have everything we need and then close it in two weeks and then have.a decision the following
two weeks. We have sixty two days but we work very hard to make things move quickly.
(See Minutes for Resolution)
HEARING # 7319— BRIAN KELLER
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is,for Brian Keller #7319. This
is'a request for variances from Article XXIII Section 280-124 and the Building Inspector's March
i
26, 2019 Notice of Disapproval,based on an application to,construct additions and alterations to
an existing single family dwelling at 1) less than the code required side yard setback of 15 feet,
2) less than the code required total side yard setback of 35 feet located at 3300 Reeve Rd. in
Mattituck.
BRIAN KELLER : Good morning my name is Brian Keller. As you are aware I'm seeking a variance
to add to the north-side of my house a 12 foot garage. It will be following the,same rooflines
and I'm here to answer any questions you might have.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well let me enter into the record what the variances are. You need a
single side yard setback of 15 feet but you're proposing 8 feet and then a combined side yard
setback of 28 feet is what you're proposing and the code requires 35 feet. This is for a 12 foot
by 29 foot attached garage on the side of the house. You already have a garage there. You have
a one car garage. The lot size is 571 sq. ft' that's over,just over the 20,000 sq. ft. which would
'then only need a`10 foot side yard and 25 foot combined. I believe that was in your.application. `
The other thing you indicated was the rear yard has a swimming pool and it's a there really isn't
any room to put another garage an accessory garage in the rear yard where it would be
conforming. So just so you know we all did site inspections, we've all visited the property and
noticed that you have a rather large kind of canvas container now.
26
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;September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
BRIAN KELLER : 10 by 20 enclosure.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO Will that. be remaining somewhere on the property after
construction?
BRIAN KELLER : No.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So that will be going away thank you.
BRIAN KELLER : That's correct. I'd just like to say my plan,is to have the building have a front 9
foot entrance and also barn doors in the back to give me access to the rear yard. Additionally
there's a wall there's a slate wall that runs on the north side of my driveway, that will remain
and that should give me approximately 2 feet'of access to the north of the proposed garage
extension.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So.you're proposing there will be a 2 foot wide walkway along the
side of the proposed garage addition?
BRIAN KELLER : Yes that will remain there.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN Can you make that 3 feet?
BRIAN KELLER :-I have to reduce the size of the garage or I have to redo the wall to,do that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well redoing the wall is a big rigmarole seems to me.
BRIAN KELLER : The reason I'm requesting the 12 foot garage is because I also want a car. I have
a classic car which is indicated there. I would also like access alongside to go through the garage
whether to store a bicycle there and bring it out without moving a car or equipment; a lawn
mower.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well you do have room on the other side yard for some degree of
access for emergency equipment and so on but a two foot wide walkway is hardly enough room
to even put a ladder up against it for maintenance.
BRIAN KELLER: No I would have to bring the ladder out another foot on top of the wall for
maintenance.•I mean that would not be a problem to me but if that's something I have to
address I will address it.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well we also look at emergency access not that you're going to get
through a 3 foot wide even but at least it gives you a certain amount of breathing space to be
able to drag something back and forth even a lawn mower would have to have enough room to
push that. I don't know let's see what the Board thinks. Nick what about you?
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : You know I didn't think about reducing the size of the garage. Just
having seen the car that's in storage it's an older car, the two'foot didn't really bother me.
There is a grade change there north of you where you've got the retaining wall so I don't know
how feasible it is or isn't. Certainly you've got 6 feet from the lot line or the tree line to the top
of the-wall. I didn't really consider that so it might require some more consideration. What I do
think about and the day that I was there I noticed there is a retaining wall on what would
appear to be the property line that's like buckling. It looks like it's falling into your property.
Who owns that wall?
BRIAN KELLER : That wall is owned by the (inaudible)
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : The neighbor to the north.
BRIAN KELLER : and that wall is actually one foot onto their property. It's not on my property. i
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So that gives you a little I should say extra room for you. It's their
loss.
BRIAN KELLER : Well yeah it is and I appreciate that. As far as the fact that it does have a little
bit of a tilt on the top it's been like that probably for fifteen years. I'm not saying that"that
makes it right but
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Just from a repair standpoint that if it was within your ownership I
think it's something that needs to •be addressed, I don't know how it can be addressed
otherwise so maybe just as a neighbor you might remind them but
BRIAN KELLER : No I've already spoken to them about it and if need be they'll take care of it.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I don't have any further questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Rob?
MEMBER LEHNERT : I don't have a problem with the two feet. I mean he's got room on the
other side here to get machinery back there if he needs it.
k,
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Plus he suggested the barn door so it will be like a drive through
garage.
BRIAN KELLER : That's the plan. I will find wood in the back yard whatever needs to be done I
can get through to the garage.
MEMBER LEHNERT : No other questions.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :,How about you Eric?
MEMBER DANTES : I do not have any questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Pat.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : I just you live in that area which I happened to live and most of the lots
are very narrow so I have no problem with the two feet and I think he's providing the barn
doors as a way for God forbid emergency equipment might have to get through or they just
break through the other side of the property if necessary so I don't have a problem with the
two feet.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anyone in the audience wishing to address the application?Anything
else from the Board? I'm going to o make a motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later
date. Is there a second?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution)
HEARING#7318—FREDERICK LIGUORI
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Frederick Liguori #7318.
This is a request for a variance under Article 11 Section 280-9A and the Building Inspector's
March 19, 2019 Notice of Disapproval based on a determination of lot recognition at,1) less
than the code required minimum lot width of 100 feet located at 5600 Great Peconic Bay
Boulevard (adj. to the Great Peconic Bay) in Laurel.
ROB HERRMANN : Rob Herrmann of En-Consultants on behalf of the applicants. Do you want
me to start?
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well let's see,
ROB HERRMANN : While you're thinking I'm just going to hand up a survey so everybody has
sort of an enlarged version of it.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So this is essentially a lot with a non-conforming width.
ROB HERRMANN : That's correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It says 79 foot .85 feet the code requires 100 and
ROB HERRMANN : Right and I can walk you through first a little bit of history of the lot and then
the variance which hopefully shouldn't take long.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay.
ROB HERRMANN : You have to listen carefully because it's a little bit of an interesting case. I've
been working with the property owners and have had several meetings with Mike Verity on this
over the past I don't know year plus at this point. The survey I just handed up is a good point of
reference for the early history of the lot. Basically the subject property is improved with a two
story framed building that was characterized as a "apartment over garage" on the survey that
you're looking at which is dated September 18, 1957 and last revised July 16, 1958. We
established with the Building Department that the northerly property line represents the front
lot line which is what we're here for relief for. So the existing building actually conforms to all
required setbacks under 280-124B as does the under construction deck and the proposed patio
addition. Beneath the deck there were actually the subjects of the applicant's building permit
application to which the Notice of Disapproval was issued and the reason for that was because
it was explained to us that unless we can demonstrate that the width was legally pre-existing
1957 the Building Department couldn't issue a permit. I mean it's also Trustees permit required
because it's in their jurisdiction but that's really not particularly pertinent to what's in front of
you. Even if that was attained or wasn't required Mike couldn't issue a building permit for this
because of the insufficient lot width. We spend a lot of time we got a single and separate title
search and spent a lot of time looking at the old deeds which were a little bit hard to follow
from back then. Basically based on a single and separate search we have in October of last year
and the deeds for the property that were recorded originally in 1940 and then in 1958 it was
close but no cigar because we determined that the lot was created by deed on September 27,
1958 by which time the minimum lot width of 100 feet would have been required in what was
the former A residential district. If you're looking at tax map there's a series of lots that run
from the boulevard to the bay and those are tax map numbers 1000-128-2 and lots 10, 11, 23
and 24. They were all originally part of one parent property that's described in the 1940 deed
that was submitted with the application and then the owner at that time began to start deeding
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September 12;2619 Regular Meeting
out these lots starting with'the subject lot and lot 24 in 1958. We did a lot, of work, a 'lot of
research, a lot of conversations with Mike but figured out that we still had to get this lot width
recognized because we were clear about a year or two late in the fifties when they established
a lot width. Our position to the Board is that the granting of the relief necessarily will not cause
an undesirable change to the neighborhood or to the neighboring property•or the character of
the community because the lot width less than 100 feet is actually typical of the majority of the
properties in the surrounding neighborhood. As we present this application I have to make a
correction cause I had a number wrong so I'm going to correct that now for the record. Not
including the adjacent lots 23 and 24 which are these very narrow beach access right of way
parcels from the road and basically a shared beach access owned by the applicant and the
owner of lot 10; fifteen and I incorrectly said sixteen in the application, fifteen of the twenty
three tax parcels located in section 128 block 2 have lot widths less than 100 feet which is
about sixty five percent of the lots in this block. I'm just going to hand up this graphic which I
think helps illustrate it. So looking at block 2 all of the area in green all ,the lots shaded in.green
have non-conforming lot widths less than 100 feet and the lot shaded in yellow is the subject
parcel. So of the fifteen lots of the 15 non-conforming lots nine appear to be pre-existing non-
conforming, five of them which, are lots 18-22 were actually created with the benefit of relief
from the ZBA all the way back in 1964 under case #669 and two others which were lots 9.1 and
9.2 were also created with the benefit of variance'relief granted in 1975 in case #2067. It's also
worth noting of course and if you look at that graphic that the subject lot which has been
developed and occupied without harrrl-to neighboring properties for more than sixty years is
separated from the public roadway by lot 10 which has a lot width of 9.1 feet. There were a
couple of comments, I know that you received one from the Town Engineer who has noted that
the proposed drywell which again`is not directly related to what we're asking you for but we
wanted to go ahead and address that. So I do have revised plans prepared by Mullman•Sei'dman
Architects and Dave Mullman is here that just shows a repositioning of the drywell so we just
wanted to let you know that we had you know gone through the effort of addressing that
through a modified plan just simply by moving the'drywell farther landward into higher ground.
So again that's not directly related to the relief we're requesting but will eventually have to deal
with it once we get to the wetland and Building Department stage so we wanted to deal with
that now. The only other thing there was] understood there was a recommendation from the
LWRP Coordinator that the project was inconsistent and there was a fence and something that
he directed to but I didn't quite understand the context for the review. I sent Kim and Bill an
email on September 3rd, I'll just quickly read it for the record. It should be noted that the
variance application before the ZBA requests recognition of a non-conforming lot•width and
pursuant to Section 268-5 review of actions and the corresponding definitions of action minor
action by 268-3 Definitions-such relief should be considered a minor (inaudible) that's exempt
from Chapter 268 review. It specifically defines minor action F is the "granting of individual
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
setback lot line and lot area variances except in 'relation to a regulated natural feature or a
bulkhead or other shoreline defense structure or any activity within the coastal erosion hazard
area" because the,property is not located within the coastal erosion hazard area and the lot line
relief is unrelated to regulated natural features or bulkheads., Proposed action should be
determined by the Board to be an exempt minor action pursuant to code.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well let me tell you what Mark's response to that was. This action is
not an individual setback lot line or lot are variance. It involves the creation of a non-
conforming lot that did not meet the minimum width,and does not meet the exemption. A lot
line reference would apply to a recognized lot and the adjusting of a lot line to form a new area.
The LWRP CCR applies to all land waters within the jurisdictional limits of the town of Southold.
So you see the distinction? It's not a lot line change it's a non-conforming lot width. So he says
it does not fall within the definition of the section. 1
ROB HERRMANN : I'll agree to disagree.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's fine.
ROB HERRMANN : I mean we're going'to have to get Mark's opinion and an LWRP review once
we go through Trustees anyway. So my position is not that'he shouldn't be involved just my
belief my understanding of the code and just ,as a back drop, having been involved with some
towns that were creating these LWRP's traditional zoning variances are almost always intended
to be exempted from these LWRP reviews.'That's my understanding and I don't see in the code, is
to me this is asking for a• lot line literally a lot line variance so how that would be interpreted to
not be part of the exemption I don't know.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well it's not a lot.
ROB HERRMANN : It's the front lot line that's narrow.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's right but it's the width. It's not the property line per-say it's
the width of the lot okay. However let's just move on because the bottom line is there are
many instances in which the LWRP indicates inconsistency and if we can find a way in our ;
decision to say based upon the following circumstances we determine it to be consistent, it is
only a recommendation. So it will not preclude approval.
ROB HERRMANN : Understood.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We of course as you can appreciate have to pay'very close attention
to the town's expert.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
ROB HERRMANN : Sure.and I would say that the testimony that I just offered and the evidence
of the number of lots in that neighborhood that have non-conforming-widths would to me
speak to the concern. We're not here today asking to create this lot. We're asking the Board to
recognize the conditions that has been in existence for sixty years and but for a number of
months would have been recognized without a variance. Nothing they can do about a lot width
at this point.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Not really. Pat any questions?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Not really.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric.
MEMBER DANTES : No. It looks like this is just a variance for a subdivision?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No it's a lot recognition for a lot that has a non-conforming width.
MEMBER DANTES : Right but usually when we do these we use ,this as a variance for a
subdivision. J
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN, : No they're not subdividing anything. It is already a single and
separate lot. He got stopped because they were building a deck.
ROB HERRMANN : Right without a building permit.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Without a building permit and then this all came up.
1
ROB HERRMANN : Just to add color Eric, there was originally some discussions with the Building
Department that there are a couple of different ways that this could have been handled. If you
change the designation of lot lines then you might have a setback variance for the structure but
the front lot line here makes sense it's the front lot line cause it's the line that runs parallel,with
the Great Peconic Bay Blvd., it's the line through which you enter the front of the house from
Peconic Bay Blvd. So for all intense and purpose it is a front lot line but the problem is when it
was created in 1958 it was created at 80 feet or whatever the number was or 79. something
feet instead of 100 feet but our position is that so too were fifteen other lots over the course of
the years including-seven of them that were actually subdivided that were granted variance
relief to be subdivided and created a new by the Zoning Board of Appeals. Now that's in 1964 in
1975 it's not your Board but it created the precedent and it created what for our arguing the
character of this neighborhood where basically you have you know almost seventy percent of
the lots in this section and block are (inaudible) 100'feet for lot width.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MEMBER DANTES,: The thing that,I'm confused by I mean I've seen the lots before that were
created were too small I've never seen a lot with a structure on it that was created that was too
small that they send back to us. Does the other,one have a structure on it?
ROB HERRMANN : Yes. So the original parent lot from 1940 again never minding the little beach
access, right of ways and things. Basically you have two developed lots, the one that's adjacent
to the road and the one that's adjacent to the bay. What Mike is saying is for the purpose of
addressing a building permit for the existing structure he's saying he can't issue-a building
permit because the lot width is less than 100 feet and that has never been formally recognized
by the town. So basically the conditions that you're looking at
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You can't get a Pre C.O. because it's off by less than a year. When
the code became effective prior to that date the lot would have been recognized. The width
would not have mattered. So it was created just about the time when the lot when the law got
changed they got caught in the middle. f
ROB HERRMANN : That's correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So they're here- for that reason. Anything from anybody else?
Anyone in the audience? I'm ready to,close it a're you? I'm going to make•a motion to close the
hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
MEMBER,LEHNERT : Aye.
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution)
f
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
HEARING #7309—ROBERT YEDID
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Robert Yedid #7309. This
is a request for variances from Article III Section 280-15, Article XXIII Section 280-124 and the
Building Inspector's March 22, 2019 Notice of Disapproval based on an application to legalize
an "as built" accessory swimming pool and an "as built" accessory shed at 1) accessory shed
located less than the code required side yard setback of 5 feet, 2) accessory shed located less
than the code required rear yard setback of 5 feet, 3) "as built" construction is more than the
code permitted maximum lot coverage of 20% located at 230 Hippodrome Drive in Southold. Is
there someone here to represent the applicant? Come to the podium and please state your
name and spell your last name please.
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : A-L-T-1-N-T-0-P-R-A-K
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you. Are you here representing the applicant?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : Yes and Mr. Yedid right here.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You're here as well. So first of all how is it that the accessory pool
-was built without a certificate of occupancy without a permit?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : We did file the permits at that time in the Building Department and after
the calculation and Mr. Yedid had just purchased the house we did it illegally so I have nothing
to say about it.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well let me enter into the record what the issues are that the Board
is faced with here. We have a total lot coverage as a consequence of the shed that's built and
the pool that's built.
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : The shed is all the way at the end of the property we didn't build the
shed.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay but the problem is that with the house, the shed and the
swimming pool we have lot coverage of 25.9%, the code only permits a maximum of 20%that's
one of the reasons why you're here and the other is that the side yard and rear yard setbacks
for the shed need to be 5 feet and not 3 feet. Now usually when there's an application
submitted there are reasons submitted along with it that address the variance standards that
we have to use in order to make a decision. What is the character of the neighborhood, is the
relief substantial, are there environmental impacts, there are six of them. Is there an alternative
to the variance that's feasible and none of those were addressed in this application. So what is
it that you would like us to know about this application that supports the requested variances?
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : Repeat that again.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : In order for us to make a decision we have to understand what your
argument is for granting the non-conforming variances.
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : For the shed or the pool?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Both. We're looking at lot coverage and we're looking at the location
of the shed, rear yard and side yard. The lot coverage is a consequence of what's on the
property structures on the property. There's a house, there's a pool, there's a shed; driveways
don't count. The fencing doesn't count. So collectively that constitutes a lot coverage that's
greater than the 20% of what the code allows. So the Board is inclined to grant variances is
required by law to only grant the minimal variance possible. The smallest possible deviation
from the code. So my question is how do you reduce the lot coverage on the property. What
can you do to reduce that lot coverage. You're looking at a request at it now of 26%. What can
you do to eliminate make that number smaller?
MR. YEDID : I apologize for being dressed so informally. Just for the (inaudible) my wife and I
bought the house and we've summered at rented homes in Southold for three or four years
prior to this in Beixendon Estates. It was an existing house with a pretty substantial you know
hot a big back yard. We built a pool that we thought was a very reasonable size. I guess in terms
of you know at the time we worked with Bilal and his company were not aware that we were
going to be at a variance. Obviously had we known that we would have scaled back the size of
the pool. The shed was an existing shed and it's built on a concrete pad. I don't think it's a very
large shed. We store some bikes in it some other garden accessories etc. Our preference is to
not knock down the shed because it does there is no garage part of this house. The prior
owners the Pintos I guess they had taken the garage and made it into living space so this was
the existing house as constructed. The distance from the shed and there is a substantial fence
that was already in place from the time we bought it. It's a very nice looking fence made out of
(inaudible) PVC or whatever the proper terminology is. I think it's (inaudible) presentable, it's
relatively new. The pool is completed hidden by that fence. It's quite high, it's probably I don't
know about 6 % feet high so it's not visible to our neighbors. We've installed very nice
landscaping around the side without being obtrusive so it goes all around the edge of the pool.
So we try to present the pool in a way that's very unintrusive to our neighbors and also Bill in
terms of the placement of the pump etc. has minimized any noise or concerns to one of our
next door neighbors whose house is quite close to ours which obviously has been there for
years. So I think we've tried to make the placement of the pool the appearance of the pool etc.
as unintrusive as possible to our neighbors and to sort of blend in to the neighborhood. Our
next door neighbors also have a relatively sizable pool but they do have a larger lot I'll admit
September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
that. So in terms of the environmental impact we worked very'substantially with Bill and his
teams in terms of installing a new cesspool and a new I think new'cesspool to make sure we get
proper and installed another drainage are to make sure that all the drainage in the pool and in
the surrounding area all was contained within our lot and did not cause any problems for any of
our neighbors. So we went to further substantial additional expenses. Part of building this in-
ground pool to make sure we address'those items.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So did you just then begin construction of the pool without going to
the Building Department or you went to the Building Department.
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : I went to the Building Department.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And what happened there?
BILALALTINTOPRAK : They said we can only build a 200 sq. ft. area. I guess for that building size
cause I had the old survey that Mr. Yedid had given me first when he purchased the house it
was an old survey. The old survey doesn't show that 1-guess did some kind,'of extension on the
house and I did some calculation at that time and put in permits to the Building Department
and the Building Department find out and they did extension on the house and get back to me
and said you can't'build a pool in here (inaudible) maximum 200 sq. ft. pool which is 10 x 20 like J
a little hot tub.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : They probably did that because you were going to exceed' the lot
coverage.
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : Right because they have I guess they have that on the record in the'
Building Department and the existing owner of the house and did an extension to the house it
doesn't show it on the old survey.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So did you take'an updated survey in?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : Yes we did.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And that's when they said you could only,build this little small pool?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : No before we took this new survey so did survey afterward with the pool.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I see, so they were looking at a survey that didn't have the pool on it
to begin with
MR. YEDID : Right
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : but it didn't have the additions on the house.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MR. YEDID : Yeah it did have the,additions of the house because this house was in 1981 there
was some existing-extension in '95 1 don't know if that was pushing it out and then I think they
added a second floor in 2006ior 2007. So that was the those were the extensions on the home
that I was told about before I purchased-it.
T. A. DUFFY : It doesn't really'-seem to make sense because you were saying that you brought
them a survey thaLshowed a smaller house but then they would have granted you a permit.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : That's right is there a permit or is there no perm,i,t? ;
MEMBER DANTES : Well Bill then they would have known about the extension because they
had a permit for the extension.
T. A. DUFFY : It sounds like somehow they're trying to blame this old survey but they had a
survey that didn't show the full size of their house—They would have brought that if it wasn't
picked up they would have gotten a permit but if it was recognized by the Building Department
that it was an inaccurate survey then they would have said you gotta come up with an accurate
survey. There's a,reason why you didn't get a building permit at some point,right or did ;
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Do you have a permit?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : This is the old survey (inaudible walked up to the podium too much side
talking happening) the Building Department told me that I guess (inaudible) lot size and I can't
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh even with this old survey
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK,:Right.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you see this come over here.
MEMBER,PLANAMENTO : This is the old survey that they based the-pool on.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Right.rThis is the old survey, here's the existing.
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : That's the new survey.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Right but the point is that even with the smaller house-they said that
you would need a variance to build this sized pool?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : No, no, no because Building Department somebody at the Building ;
Department they told me they saw this survey on their files and I said it's right here 16 x 100
feet long that doesn't tell me I have to add the numbers
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
T. A. DUFFY : It doesn't matter. You brought this survey to talk to them and they told you it was
inaccurate (inaudible)
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : They told me they-already had the extension on the house.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright so they had a record of that?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : Right they had a record of that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And therefore they didn't look at this they looked at this and this.
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : Yes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And they denied it.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : But based on this was there or was there not a building permit?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : For the house?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Cause here you could put a pool with a building permit.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No they're saying this was already done. They took that in but this
had already been done.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : But they showed the wrong survey.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : But Mike had a copy of this. They didn't have this. It was apparently
filed was that by the previous owner? No it couldn't have been.
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : No Mr. Yedid filed it.
MR. YEDID : I filed it.
T. A. DUFFY : How does this help them their explanation why they built a pool without a permit.
MEMBER LEHNERT : It doesn't they still don't a permit for the pool. It doesn't mean a thing.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So the bottom line is you went ahead without permission from the
Building Department to build this pool. Now how is it that you're before this Board? How did
we get this, how did we get this Notice of Disapproval? Is there a Stop Work Order, was there a
complaint how did this happen? Did you try to get a C.O. from the Building Department for the
pool? I just want to understand sequence of events that happened. That is what you had to
submit to the Zoning Board that the Building Department wrote. You don't even have a copy of
this Notice of Disapproval?
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MR. YEDID : I personally don't, no.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well somebody got it. It was issued to you the property owner's
name and that's what's saying that's what's telling me that the code'requires this and you have
on this survey that. You have too much lot coverage and the shed doesn't have the proper
setbacks. Now it's possible when that shed was put in place the code was a 3 foot setback. That
code changed to 5 foot setback.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Also the shed is too big, it would need a permit.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's 12 x 12. There should be a C. 0. for the shed because it's more
than 10 x 10. As soon as you get above that then it's a structure that requires a permit.
MR. YEDID : Okay I guess I assumed buying the existing
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That it was all okay.
MR. YEDID : Yeah. I had bought the home I was told that there was a C.O. over the home and
assumed that also covered the shed that was on an existing concrete pad that was there.
didn't change it and I would also point out that the houses directly behind mine just added a
shed. I think it is smaller it is not 12 x 12 but it is the setback is 3 feet it's not 5 feet from the
fence.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : They might also have an issue.
MR. YEDID : I'm just putting it out. So you know this and this continuation was it is what it is
there's no doubt about it. In terms of a you know we do have a pool in place. In terms of
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So question with the pool in place but why is the pool in place. If you
needed a building permit where's the building permit to put the pool there?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Did you buy this from the Taylor's?
MR. YEDID : I bought it from the Pinto's.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So in 1981 our files show that there we have in our application
maybe you submitted it I don't know a certificate of occupancy for this property for an
accessory storage building. Now that maybe the shed, I don't see any other storage buildings
unless there was something that was demolished you know what I mean. We have no way of
knowing. We can look at the files and
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MR. YEDID : The house was pushed back and I understand it but'I don't think it was pushed
back all I can tell you is I don't think it was pushed back substantial (inaudible). This in the far
corner of the home lot.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well the patio doesn't count cause it's at grade so that's not a lot
coverage problem but you see if this had been done in a sequence that allowed us to discuss
this before it was built we might have said maybe you put in a slightly,smalier pool maybe 36-x
whatever and you know reduce the lot coverage and maybe you were (inaudible) shed and
maybe we would have something more viable. It's very difficult to figure out what to do after
the fact.
MR. YEDID : All I can tell you is obviously we try to be sensitive to our neighbors and try to be
sensitive to the environmental factors and yes we are over the percentage that is permitted.
We think that it's done in a very tasteful and sensitive way and so if the Board grants us this
variance I would (inaudible) permit.'The other alternative which is my wife and I would knock
down the shed there would/be a considerable expense in order to reduce the size cause we do
need some kind of shed to store you know bikes and even on the pool pump and things like
that over the winter time cause we have no we do not have a garage so that would be an
alternative that would be you know pretty costly.
T. A. DUFFY : (inaudible) understand the permit process. Essentially your contractor said he
went to the Building Department .and,was told that the pool was too big and then you just
decided to build it.
MR. YEDID : No, no, no that was not my understanding of it.
T. A. DUFFY : So what is your understanding?
MR. YEDID : My understanding was he went to the property department filed for a permit and
then started construction with the understanding I thought that the permit was being
considered by the Building Department. I didn't know
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :That it had not been issued.
MR. YEDID : That it had not been issued. Listen I'm not lawyer by training I'm not involved
with real estate and so I don't really understand how these processes Iwork. So you know my
assumption was I bought a beautiful home, I can add a nice sized pool. I didn't think it was
overly overdone. The pool size is 20 x 40 and that you know that would provide for a nice you
know a nice pool and also would provide something nice for the subsequent homeowners that
would you know buy the home for many years to come:
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well let's look at the variance standards.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Before we do that do you mind if I ask you a question? Long Island
Pool Care Bill I guess, have you built pools in Southold before?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : Yes.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : How many?
{
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : (inaudible) probably about eighty.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : And have you gotten permits for all of them?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : Yes.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So what's different in this situation? Were you instructed to put a
pool in without'a permit? Did you advise your client that they should have a permit?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : I'm sorry I didn't understand it.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : If you know that you needed a permit did you explain this to the
property owner Mr. Yedid? Were you told to put the pool in without a permit or'did you just
decide on your own even though you knew that you needed a permit to (inaudible)
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : Why (inaudible) need a permit that's besides the point so
I
T. A. DUFFY : It's not besides the point.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : That's the point. I need to understand the circumstance of why
there's a-pool
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think you need to go back to the podium.
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : When I applied for the permits the first time after Mr. Yedid purchased
the house and I went for the old survey apply for the permits to the Building Department they
denied it and I called Mr. Yedid and I said Mr. Yedid we have some-issue with that Building
Department they denied it because the lot size situation and they purchased the house because
they wanted to enjoy it for the summer which 2018 summer. They purchased the house in 2018
and they said what do we have to do and I said we have to go before the Zoning Department,
Building Department we have to file for this. It's not enough time in that spring we filed all this
paperwork and I said let's do something excuse my language stupid fet's build the pool and
fight for this we can go to the Zoning Department (inaudible).
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So it was your choice not Mr. Yedid's?
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MR. YEDID : Well it was something that was explained to me but Bill and I had talked about it
and he said Bill did explain that -to me (inaudible) be very clear but he sort of said this is
something that you know you go through the normal process and you know.the permit would
be issued at a future date. I guess I didn't understand in our conversation that a permit needed
to be granted to start the process so it's my misunderstanding of how the process worked. But
it is something that Bill discussed with me at the time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let me just jump here, I think we understand what happened. Let
me reasons for appeal;-these questions these what we use they are state statutes. That's what
we use to make a decision, the answers to those questions. The first one is, will an undesirable
change be produced to the character of the neighborhood or will it be a detriment to nearby
properties. Yes or no or because. Now what we have in here does not address character of the
neighborhood at all. It says swimming pool has its own filter and pump which will circulate
water within itself. That might be something that has to do with you know the impact to the
environment but it is not character of the neighborhood. Character of the neighborhood would
be well there are ten lots on my street and all ten of them have excessive lot coverage. So the
character of the neighborhood is small lots with too much lot coverage,of a consequence of
being small. That would then you'd have to look for prior variances to say well you know all of
these other lots were too small they all got variances from .the Board for excessive lot coverage.
That's how you answer that question. The benefit can't be achieved by some (inaudible)
feasible for the'applicant to pursue other than' area variances because space is limited. That's
r ,
not an answer to that. It's'because I can't move it. It's in the ground okay. It's not feasible to
remove the pool. It's not financially feasible and soon. It is feasible to remove the shed. It's
certainly feasible to take the shed and get rid of two variances by lifting it up and moving it over
two feet in each direction so that it has conforming it doesn't solve the lot coverage problem
but it solves the setback problems for the shed. So it may not be feasible for the pool but it
certainly is feasible for the shed. Is the amount of relief request is it substantial? It's 6% over
what the code permits. So what's a 6% relief from the code what percentage is that?
MEMBER DANTES : 6%
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's 6% beyond what the code
T. A. DUFFY : 25%
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So it's about a 25% variance roughly. That's substantial. We can
grant substantial relief but we have to have reasons that will mitigate the relief that we're
granting and I right now I'm not sure what those would be. So number'four was the adverse
impact on the physical and environmental conditions the neighborhood, I'd say no there aren't
any bad impacts but you have to explain why and then has the alleged difficulty been self-
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
t,
created?,You say no because the space is limited. That's not an answer either. The answer is
yes, you did this•without a permit and the applicant purchased the property as is and he has no
defense against not understanding what the law permits him to do with the property. So you
can say the shed was there but he purchased it with the shed. Now whether it had excessive lot
coverage he probably didn't because the pool is probably what put it over the top but we'd
have to get those calculations but it certainly had setback issues.
MEMBER DANTES : Before the bool Leslie is was at 18.8 looks like.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay did you hear that prior to putting a pool in. So the swimming
pool the size of the pool is what put you over the top. Has you come here with a Notice of
Disapproval which says you can't do this because it's too much lot coverage we would have
talked to you about it. We would have discussed the size of the pool, we would have looked at
ways to make sure the lot coverage/ was as small a variance as possible and we would have
been able to grant a variance that was reasonable or possible. It's very difficult now I mean
other than the shed I don't see what alternative you know which is somewhat flexible though
not desirable. I don't know what else you can do, you know removing that pool is a big deal a
really big deal or cutting it down. I mean that-is not a really feasible option.
MR. YEDID : Yeah that's a very big deal.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So I don't know let's see if the other Board members have any
E
questions or you have any other comments, we'll try to figure out where we go from here. Is
there anything you want to ask Eric or say?
MEMBER DANTES : No I think you guys covered it.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Pat anything?
MEMBER ACAMPORA : No.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Rob, Nick.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I have a couple of questions. So you mentioned in earlier testimony
that you put in dry wells all kinds well a new septic system I believe you said, on the survey
you're not illustrating the dry well for pool de-watering. Where is that located? Pool de-
watering, when you drain the pool where is the dry well to receive the water from the pool on
the property? Is there a dry well?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : Yes there it is. ,.
September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well Mr. Yedid said there's a septic but the septic drain is not where
the you would drain
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK :'No.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So the pool does not have a dry well?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : They have what they call the cartridge filter that you don't have to back
wash it every week or every other week (inaudible).
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you drain it over the winter?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : Yeah but any dry well is not big enough to drain (inaudible) I mean the
septic
MEMBER LEHNERT : You're required to have a dry well.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Absolutely.
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : You drain like 6,000 gallons water the minimum every fall when
winterizing the pool.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And where do you drain it? Where do you take the water?
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : Right into the yard the back of the house.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's illegal.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : I was also going to ask, the day that I did the site inspection from the
filter there was a flexible blue hose which went under the fence to the front yard and you can
clearly see the drain being drained onto the front lawn at the corner of the house instead into a
dry well.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That does not comply with Chapter 236 of the Town's Storm water
Management Plan.
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : I live in the town of Southold and I have (inaudible) so let me ask one
simple question. Every pool has to have a dry well?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All water must be drained into a conforming there's a section in the
code that describes exactly all of those drainage issues. Roof run off, gutters and leaders;
gutters and leaders are not supposed to be spilled onto the ground either. They're supposed to
go into a drywell. The law requires that no drainage from rain fall or any other source,
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
sprinklers and so on, that all has to be contained on site. It may not go into roads. Back in the
day before that people just put a hose out and drained it right into the street.
BILAL ALTINTOPRAK : Even the pool that has to have a dry well that whole water has to be
going in to the dry well?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yep and if it's too much water it has to go into two dry wells. The
Town Engineer would have to be the one who would actually look at these plans, look at the
capacity of the pool an engineer could tell you what size the dry well would be in order to
conform. Yeah cause we did observe that there was drainage on the surface water was just
draining onto the property okay. So I hate to be the bearer of bad news but there's a series of
issues here that need to be looked at. I think the proper thing to do here is possibly to just
adjourn this to the next hearing so that you have an opportunity to absorb all of this to maybe
find out a little bit more about the mechanics of what's required here or maybe talk to your
wife see what you think consult with each other. Are you clear on what's involved here?
MR. YEDID : I think I need to get a copy of the application and we can you know consider the
issues that you've raised, think about a very thoughtful response, think about you know look at
the application consider the issues that you raised and try to be as responsive as we can to
them. We'll try to get the details with regards to septic system, dry wells etc. and come back to
the Board and apply with additional information and action items.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : (inaudible) save you any expense and additional time. We're going
to adjourn this so you can come back without having to go through an entire rigmarole all over
again. You don't need another application, you don't need another fee you just need to provide
let's say amended relief. In other words now we're going to try and maybe get rid of those two
variances for the shed so that you would be amending the relief that was requested. Right now
you're requesting two setback variances, 5 foot and 5 foot. Those could go away if you decide
to try and amend your application and move the shed or even still if you look at it and say gee if
we got rid of the shed we reduce the lot coverage and then we only need one variance and
we'll tell you where the dry wells are and we'll install the drywells those kinds of things. So let
me give you the time to think that through.
MR. YEDID : Okay we appreciate that.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : And if I could add actually just a couple of other requests; if you can
give us any information specific to the Beixedon neighborhood of other properties that have
both excessive lot coverage.
MR. YEDID : Where do I get that information?
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : That's something you need to research.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well all of the yeah the Building Department has (inaudible) which
will show you all the lot sizes in your neighborhood and it will give you a tax map number and
do we have instructions that they can follow is this all on Laser Fiche.
BOARD SECRETARY : Yes I can send you instructions on Laser Fiche.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Can they access Laser Fiche?
BOARD SECRETARY : Yes they can but not Building Department only Zoning Board and I can
send it to you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What we would have in our records on Laser Fiche which we have
prepared instructions for applicants to do research to help their cases. You will be able to look
up any variances by tax map number and let's say you know other houses in your neighborhood
came in for variances for lot coverage. Some of them may be pre-existing non-conforming
where their lot coverage was excessive but it was before the code was put into place before
1957 cause Beixedon is fairly old.
MR. YEDID : Yeah there's some very old homes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So it's possible that you can say well there is excessive lot coverage
and yes they pre-dated zoning but that is characteristic of the neighborhood. So some time to
research what the character of the neighborhood really is, how many people have swimming
pools.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Exactly pools understand how many pools in Beixedon.
MR. YEDID : There are a fair number. I can
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You can Google Earth it and find out.] mean all you have to do is go
on an aerial map and you can see which one of the properties has a swimming pool.
MR. LEHNERT : And how about revising the survey to show the proper drainage?
MR. YEDID : We'd be happy to do that because we want that to be corrected and you know
eventually someday when we sell the home we want to make sure that that information is
correct not only for now but in terms of the future because (inaudible) I got it I'll do this I don't
want that to happen to other people in the future.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Good,.good enough. When can we adjourn this to, is the question.
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MEMBER PLANAMENTO : So the only other thing I was going to add, it would appear that in our
package you don't have a C.O. on the outdoor shower (inaudible) my understanding that a C.O.
is required for the shower.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright we're going to have to adjourn to October because what we
talked about for the November, December calendar is going to get pretty overcrowded. So
anyone else in the audience wanting to address this application? I'm going to make a motion to
adjourn this hearing to the October 10th Regular Meeting. Is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution)
HEARING # 7313— KEVIN S. MCLEOD and CHUN Y. CHEUNG
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for Kevin S. McLeod and
Chun Y. Cheung. This is a request for variances from Article XXII Section 208-105 and 280-
116A(1) and the Building Inspector's March 29, 2019 Notice of Disapproval based on an
application to construct a pergola addition to an existing single family dwelling and to legalize
an "as built" six foot fence at 1) the pergola is located less than the code required 100 feet from
the top of the bluff, 2) the fence is more than the code permitted maximum four (4) feet in
height when located in the front yard located at 605 Sound View Ave. (adj. to the Long Island
Sound) in Mattituck.
MIKE KIMACK : Good afternoon Michael Kimack on behalf of the applicants and Jeni McLeod
she goes by her English name is here rather than having to go through the Chinese (inaudible)
but she is in the audience. You're correct, the disapproval letter was in two parts. The first part
with those particular structures (inaudible) fall within the 100 foot setback from the bluff which
is within your jurisdiction and I've done a summary of the variance request if I can ask you to go
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
to that. There are two components there, one is a roof over the two car garage which we
placed a lattice which had been in place and that was roughly I think about 76 sq. ft. the
extension of that was 78 sq. ft. for the garage and the other is to replace an existing pergola
that had been approved on the existing upper deck that was attached to the house. It was
knocked down and subsequent to that it became subject to the 100 foot setback and that
particular pergola would be extended over to the deck that was extended behind the sunroom
that you had approved in a prior application. That particular pergola would be about 238.2 sq.
ft. It's an open pergola. I will basically also make some comments about you received from
Suffolk County Soil and Water Conservation District a fairly lengthy letter which basically the
relevant components of that basically was their concern was that the pergola basically be roof
structure be open so that it wasn't subject to any kind of runoff or so. The real concern
encapsulating it was that whatever was being done did not add or contribute any runoff to the
slope which they wrote a lengthy dissertation on in terms of it being well vegetated and
concerned about the vulnerability of it. I will point out that when we went through Trustees the
Trustees basically approved or required us to do a ten foot non-turf buffer from the bluff but
from the contour point of view the bluff sits at 66. All of the land slopes back away from the
bluff. The property has received Storm Water Management approval for everything on the
property so all of the impervious areas are under Storm Water Management permit. The fella
who wrote this obviously didn't know, he pointed out some of his concerns and I thought I'd at
least address those to the Board to understand that they have been taking care they have been
looked at and in terms of the runoff the pergola itself would not create any (inaudible) have a
solid roof on it but they were concerned that anything being done would not contribute in
addition to what may be and obviously because of the way the land slopes and because of the
types of dry wells in place for all of the impervious areas that's not going to occur. That's it for
the two areas that for both the pergola that we're asking for. Are there any questions on that?
MEMBER DANTES : Mike where's the, the one pergola is on the back of the house on the deck
there's two pergolas?
MIKE KIMACK : NO, well the pergola basically it's one pergola but it extends over that section
behind the sunroom Eric and it also extends partially over the front door.
MEMBER DANTES : Okay I thought you mentioned garage before,so there is no
MIKE KIMACK : There is a roof over the garage, you might be able to see that if you went on the
property there's a roof over the garage that replace a lattice. It's about 78 sq. ft. I think it's
roughly 26 x 3 or something like that and it's a cover for the two car garage. Then there's one
pergola on the top. The original one being on the existing deck, that deck was expanded behind
the sunroom and then they designed the new pergola to expand behind the sunroom and then
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
also (inaudible) over the front door. A pergola it's not open it doesn't have a roof on it and
that's it.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay why don't we address the fence.
MIKE KIMACK : Okay let's go to the fence. We are requesting it's an "as built" fence that the
best I can tell you is that it had been in existence when the property was purchased thirteen
years ago. It's along the front, it's a wire fence which I would imagine you had a hard time
seeing.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : It's in the bushes.
MIKE KIMACK : We didn't even know it was there for the most part but obviously the bushes
are not going to be touched and then it turns that corner and what it does now it's the
adjoining property is Mattituck Salt Air Association. There are forty five homes that use that
piece of property.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : It's a recreational piece of property.
MIKE KIMACK : But it's an undivided interest for all of the homeowners I would imagine in
essence and all the home owners can actually use that piece of property and I suspect then the
reason that we are requesting this is for two reasons, one for security and one for privacy
because it's and it's not a normal circumstance where your next door neighbor happens to be
contributing to forty five homes people coming and going. I do know that in the past that the
association has had difficulty with other people using it too and they were trying to limit that. If
you look at the fence on Salt Air side they have planted a privet row all the way along the fence
and it stands up about four foot so what you really see is the other two feet of the fence itself.
We're requesting when I asked for it in the variance basically I had measured from the front to
the front of the house which is 155 feet of course from there back it's legal to have a six foot
fence but there was something that I just checked and I wasn't quite sure, the Building
Department (inaudible) you got a deck attached to the house that comes out to the front they
measure from the deck not from the house. So it's really not 155 it's about 125 feet which
would be roughly from your perception about half from the road to the bluff it would be about
half of that that would be subject to the variance rather than going back to the house. It
doesn't matter cause we're requesting the variance. The privacy point of view is that and I may
ask Jeni to talk to that, when she first bought the place and she indicated to me that her
neighbor across the street walked her up that strip of property there and they said well if we
sat here we can see your pool even though (inaudible) just barely over the fence. They have
obviously planted substantially on their side also and I will point out something there was some
concern from the Conservation people and I wasn't quite sure how to actually interpret it
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
because I've been before you enough to know I always try to shoot straight and objectively at
this point (inaudible) you shouldn't touch the fence cause you're going to hurt the vegetation.
Well that's not what we're asking for, we're asking for the maintenance and perhaps the
replacement of that fence at sometime in the future if in fact it gets to that. But that would be
true whether it's a four foot fence or a six foot fence. It would have to be done from the owners
side to the other side from the Salt Air side primarily. So whatever is done with that fence
whether it's six or four would have to be done making sure that that vegetation.that's already
existing in place is protected. It's going to be by hand and very carefully done all the way
through there anyway. I did want to address that cause I did read carefully the Conservation
letter in terms of what their concerns we're. I didn't want to necessarily come to you and say
well they said it was okay because that's not what they said. They basically said taking it out
may damage the vegetation but that is true whether it was a four foot or a six foot fence there
and, taking it out is something the owners are very cognizant of. I'm not quite sure of the
condition right now. I think it's probably got some years to go before it has to but inevitably
they would have to do a replacement and it would have to be done from their side and it--would
have to be done from their side and it would have to be done in between piece by piece by
piece and all hand labor obviously to take it out and to put a new fence in. For them basically
the privacy issue is large. It's not as if it's unusual only because there aren't that many
circumstances where you have something where you got this strip of property owned by an
association as your adjoining property owner where there's an awful lot of traffic going back
and forth and a four foot fence just doesn't work in that situation a six does. Jeni would you like
to, any questions?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :I mean just so you're aware Mike you already know this, we've all
been out to the property well of course we've been out to the property more than once. In this
instance we did go there specifically looking for a fence and to see where this pergola was
about to be located. So we're aware of what mature vegetation already exists and thank,you
for bringing to our attention that the neighborhood association actually accesses and uses the
adjacent property.
MIKE KIMACK : I guess pretty actively basically.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Obviously it's not that active. Not that many people use it. We have
once a year'we have our meeting on that property and I can tell you that about the,thirty
homeowners that show up to the meeting maybe five of them use it. They like to walk around
to Bailey Beach and they just come up through that property through the stairs and go out. As
far as security you have to have a key to get into that six foot gate that allows you onto that
property. So there really isn't a problem unless someone is breaking in from either side of the
other houses that
September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MIKE KIMACK : I know before the gate there was an issue about the people using it though Pat.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : There was but that was many years ago. We've had that gate up there
for at least eight or ten years.
v ii
MIKE KIMACK : Look people do let's put it this way more than a normal course of people using
that and we'll still contending that. From their perspective it really is a privacy.probably more
privacy than security in terms of
MEMBER ACAMPORA I mean I can definitely understand why you wouldn't want people
looking into your back yard.
MIKE KIMACK : And they have a pool right on the other side.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : I know and you do have a lot of vegetation there.
MIKE KIMACK : That's the interesting thing I'm glad you had a chance, a very small section of
that fence is actually visible because of the pergola because of the privet line you've got on
your side primarily and then of course theirs on the other side doesn't cover it all they've got a
fair amount of vegetation around the property.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Was all of that fencing in place along the side yard as well as the
front yard?
CHUN Y MCLEOD : Yes it was in place when we purchased it in 2007.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So that was already there. I don't know if the cyclone 'fence it
doesn't look like it's six foot high. It's higher the stuff that's buried in all of their green along the
front road.
MIKE KIMACK : I thought it was six.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Maybe it is. It's just difficult to determine because it's all buried in all
of the vegetation.
MIKE KIMACK : The vegetation is probably more of a fence than the fence itself.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well it is there's no question about that. Does the Board have any
questions about this?Anything else from you all?
MIKE KIMACK : No I think we've covered our points.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have an inconsistency in the LWRP for the fence but the pergola.
is exempt.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
MIKE KIMACK : I saw that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I guess cause it's non-conforming you mean it's not a naturally
regulated feature? The deer actually regulate it basically. Alright, I guess that's it then. Hearing
no further questions or comments I'm going to make a motion to close the hearing reserve
decision to a later date. Is there a second?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution)
HEARING #7288— BRAD and KATHRYN PIECUCH
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The final application of the day is for Brad and Kathryn Piecuch and
this is an adjournment it's a carryover so there's no need for me to read the Notice of
Disapproval again. So where are we from the last time we met?
BRAD PIECUCH : You guys wanted us to do a couple of things, revise the survey, get the plans
redrawn to show it as just a one story and we did that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let's see did we get copies of that?
BOARD SECRETARY : No not yet.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Are you going to give us copies?
BRAD PIECUCH : Yea just one or
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well we should all have one, how many copies do you have?
BRAD PIECUCH : I think I have four with me.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay let's take those and see if we need
BRAD PIECUCH : Also we had the plan redrawn eliminating the second floor upstairs.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright so you are submitting then the do you have just the one copy
of this redrawn elevation or do you have more than one copy?
BRAD PIECUCH : The blueprint only one.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The floor plan and elevations of the structure. Do you have more
than one copy?
BRAD PIECUCH : Just one I'm sorry.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : This isn't a big size we can make copies alright so Kim will make
copies for us. I'm going to pass this down there and then pass it to the end. Now let's see about
the location. So you didn't change the proposed location.
BRAD PIECUCH : Yes I did.
MEMBER LEHNERT : He did. He made it comply to the front yard setbacks.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What I'm saying is what we just got a copy of is what we already
had. In other words he's moving the garage
BRAD PIECUCH : We moved it so at least
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well I had in my file what you just handed me are the same surveys
basically.
MEMBER DANTES : No the one that he just handed here is different than the one he
MEMBER LEHNERT : It's different than the one we have.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Mine is the same for some reason. Yep I don't know why but it is.
MEMBER LEHNERT : They probably had an old one in there cause the one he just handed in it
complies to all front yard setbacks.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I know but I had that already. I don't know why.
MEMBER DANTES : He submitted this a while ago.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yeah this survey was submitted before.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
BRAD PIECUCH : That's the revised survey.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes the revised survey has'been submitted before. Yes remember
we said show us what trees have to be cut and you know make it conform to the setback so
that we have. What you've done though is you've drawn it's now being proposed as a one story
accessory garage. There are no dormers in it. Would you like to see this, I presume you're here
for that. Why don't you come forward.
THERESA MCCLASKY : Is that considered a one story?
CHAIRRERSON WEISMAN : One story is well this is 22 feet high to the ridge and there's a
storage and two garage doors basically. We have attic stairs but wait a minute is that a pull
down?
BRAD PIECUCH : I think he put in there attic pull down to be determined
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I mean we're not really seeing a second floor on here okay.
THERESA MCCLASKY :That should be clear (inaudible) a staircase or a pull down.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :This is drawn as a ladder.
MEMBER LEHNERT : There's no staircase shown.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There's no staircase showing."
THERESA MCCLASKY : To be determined is that what he said.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's not on here,that way. There's no second story no. That's it if you
have a pull down stair it's because you want to access what?
BRAD PIECUCH : I mean mainly'it was just going'to be storage just above the rafters to put stuff
but whatever I have to do to-appease everybody I'll do.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think we just eliminate•that that's it. It's just an open rafter one
story, no stairs garage. Now let me show you this survey I don't know if you've seen this. This is
the newer one. It's been pulled back so from the corner it has a 35 foot which is what the
principal setback of the dwelling would be. You could put a house here and this is the size, it's
26 x this is 39 feet this is 35 feet. This tree would have to come down. There's a drywell, there's
a small tree here and they're proposing a dry well in this gravel driveway and at least these two
trees would come down. This is 45 feet, 31 okay. If you want to talk that's fine but we have to
record it so you gotta go back to the podium. I just wanted you to be sure to,be able to see
okay. So there are no it's not showing anything than the ones that have to be removed. That's
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all we asked them to do. Just show the ones that you have to take down. So anything else that's
on his property is not being-cut. Is that correct, is that your understanding?
BRAD PIECUCH : We tied ribbon around them as well as we were told to and obviously put the
new sign out front.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Pardon me, for the record would you each state your name.
THERESA MCCLASKY : Theresa McClasky. r
PERRY HINDON : Perry Hindon.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And you are neighbors?
PERRY HINDON : Correct directly across and she's directly next door.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright, would you like to say anything at this point?
TERRY MCCLASKY : Yes I still have concerns about the tree removal cause I was under the
understanding that that survey would have all the trees on it for the purpose of it so that the
propeety would not be striped and very specifically because of as we discussed at the last
Zoning Board meeting the pitch of,the road down towards my property is very high and as it is
I'd like to present to you a picture of the runoff off,their property right now based on their
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have been out there a couple of times already so we do know
what the slope is.
I '
THERESA MCCLASKY : So that's the slope of their property and with heavy rains as you can see a
lot of the shrubbery has been removed and therefore is now eroding and that sand basically
comes down towards in front of my house. So there have been some other shrubs that have
been removed but again going back to the survey I would understand that if all the trees on
that portion of the property were labeled and it's,as if those trees do not exist.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No not necessarily. Approving this survey would be to say you are
' only allowed to cut down three trees as shown on this survey. Everything else must remain on
the site.
PERRY HINDON : I think that there's mature trees, very mature trees and at the last'meeting
that we were at in July you Had asked that possibly'the shed be moved closer to the house so
that,the driveway wouldn't be at the high end of the way that the property goes is.there's a
pitch at the curve and where the house is it's more level and so where this garage is proposed
he's right at a high level so that it taking up those mature trees will leave a bare area. If the
driveway Were to at least curve toward the more level area at least then you wouldn't have all
September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
that runoff coming down it's a sharp pitch. I think that the picture doesn't really I guess you can
tell I mean it's like four feet five feet
MEMBER LEHNERT : He would have to comply with the Storm Water runoff codes no matter
what and contain all the runoff,on his site.
MEMBER DANTES : He's got a dry well and the dry well will address that problem and it's on the
plan.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN There's a dry well proposed right in the driveway to catch runoff and
would capture runoff,from the driveway.
PERRY HINDON : Well what about the lower I mean he can put a drywell in the street] mean
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No it's in the driveway.
PERRY HINDON : Across the whole driveway?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No, no the driveway will have to be pitched so that runoff goes into
the drywell.,Look the town has a Storm Water Management code and all drainage is supposed
to be retained on site so none of it goes into the road. It's next to impossible everywhere in this
town to do that. We all know that we know these neighborhoods and you know stuff was
constructed long before any of those things were issues. However we'do everything we'can to
make sure that any kind of storm water or well water everything that sprinklers all that stuff is
supposed to be retained on site through, dry wells, through various means, gutters and leaders
and so on. So meanwhile the real question is, now we have a one story structure okay with no
habitable space in it, no heat, no bathroom, no, plumbing we're just talking about electric. We
have at this point three trees proposed to be moved. We have a,conforming front yard setback
alright. Now I'm going to ask the applicant-one more time, why you feel you need 44.7-feet
from your house to locate this garage, why you do not want to put it closer to your house?
BRAD PIECUCH : Basically there is that whole corner is unusable unless I put something on it
and to construct that garage closer to the house is going to be you now a lot more money.
There is irrigation in `there that would all have to get changed. There is a side lot there's a
concrete little wall that is there. There's just doesn't really make sense to put it there and then
even if we did slide it closer to the house there's,a big pine tree in the front that would have to
get removed`you know as well so it's kind of
THERESA MCCLASKY : And my comment on what Brad said is still, it's a very dangerous curve
and it's if you,have'not come down that road
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
THERESA MCCLASKY : As Ms. Acamp ora had seen with kids riding their bikes, there's other kids
on ATV's those kids come up that corner and start from the top-of the-hill in front of her house
riding their bikes straight down the road and any bus or'any you know large equipment coming
by we have gas deliveries, we,have you know any lumber, the town trucks come through you
know it's a sharp turn and to have a structure I understand he's conforming now and I do
appreciate the effort I want to make that clear but I'm just I'm stressing the safety concern
about that particular corner. So I think if they're interested in putting a garage it still,needs to
be brought in closer to their property you know 'or else put it on the opposite side of their
house which thehi (inaudible) piece of property that has their garage on their side so like garage
to garage per say and it's a full road where it's visible for anyone backing out or pulling into the t;
area it's visible. It's not on a blind turn. Basically this is on a blind turn so that's the safety
aspect of this of my concern about this garage again.
BRAD PIECUCH : Understood. Can I-say something? So be that it's meeting the setback now it's
40 feet off of the corner, before I bought the house it was all•brush that whole corner so it was
a blind corner before I took all the nasty brush and garbage out of that corner. Being that it's 40
feet off the corner there's no way that it's going to be a visual block. '
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well it's 35, 45 and-39.
MEMBER DANTES : What's the clearing when you have to have that triangle for the highway? It
has to be 30 feet so he would meet the triangle that's required by code.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There's a cone of vision for intersections and curves that says that
you know to avoid blind spots and things like that you need 30 feet and he's conforming with
that. I have a feeling that and I totally,understand what you're saying, I think you're concern is
runoff more than anything else at this point. He's got a drywell there, I still don't understand
why moving it a little bit closer to your-house would cause a hardship because frankly what are
you going to put between the garage and your house?
BRAD PIECUCH : That's the yard.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You have a whole huge back yard with a swimming pool in it. It's a
side yard.
BRAD PIECUCH': Yeah.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What are you going to use that side yard for?
BRAD PIECUCH : That's my front lawn, I mean that's you know that's a beautiful yard.
September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well, I'm satisfied that the safety concerns are essentially addressed
and that it's now a one story accessory garage. He's going to have to cut down three trees and
no more because that's all you're showing me here and approval will condition that and
anything more than that will be a code violation. Now if the Board you know I see if you moved
it over another five feet I don't know exactly how much would be gained and how much would
be lost.
BRAD PIECUCH : I'm meeting the setbacks I don't understand why
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You are, no I'm just exploring. I'm just attempting to explore
reasons. I'm not necessarily agreeing with everything. I asked to do the setback of what you
could put a house on 35 feet. You've done that but it's important that the record have
information in it that all issues were addressed. That's why I asked you what are you going to
use that for. Now do you have a sprinkler system there? Do you have underground things not
shown on this survey located there?
BRAD PIECUCH : Where the garage has to go?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Between the house and the garage.
BRAD PIECUCH : Yes correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay and what would those be what utilities are there?
BRAD PIECUCH : The sprinkler system is there. Like I said there's a concrete like retainer wall. It
would have to come down.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No it wouldn't. Concrete walk.
BRAD PIECUCH : Wall. There's like a little
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Where's a wall I don't even see a wall.
BRAD PIECUCH : It might not even be on the survey.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's not on the survey.
THERESA MCCLASKY : Again that's inconsistencies that information should be on the survey
then.
BRAD PIECUCH : Well Taft just came out and redid my survey so
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Maybe he didn't think it was important to put it in.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
BRAD PIECUCH : Maybe.
THERESA MCCLASKY : So that means it may be small enough to have it removed so again if it
can be moved back a little bit more I think it would just would be more neighborly and
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well look the bottom line is we've asked him to put in what the code
requires.
BRAD PIECUCH : Right not what they want.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I'm trying to be very polite and fair to everybody. The bottom line is
we asked him to meet those setback that would be required if he put a house there, a two story
house would be allowed to be there. He's got a 26 x 26 foot what's the height? It's one story
but 22 to the ridge. Now the roof is way down here. We go by the ridge. It's going to be an
open rafter structure. There will be no apartment, there will be no habitable dwelling, no
bathroom. He's going to use it as a garage.
BRAD PIECUCH : Correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So you know I can understand why it would be in some ways logical
to put it on the other side but I can also see the argument not to. He has a right to enjoy his
property also and he's got a swimming pool there and who wants to look'at the back of a
garage. So you know this is what happens, this is what's great about a public hearing. People
who have concerns come in and you look at what's reasonable and if you can find something
reasonable and keeps meeting the intent of the law then we grant it if we can or you don't you
deny it.
THERESA MCCLASKY : But you had mentioned as well who wants to look at the back of a
garage. (inaudible) on my particular side of
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : He has a right to put an accessory
BRAD PIECUCH : Besides that's (inaudible) there's trees there.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I was going to say the trees (inaudible) are not being cut.
THERESA MCCLASKY : That's why we (inaudible)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Screened and it's buffered.
THERESA MCCLASKY : But again the leaves fall off the trees and so for the balance of the year
we're not talking Christmas trees you know so that buffer is not going to be there so my other
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
question would be about the lighting. I'm hoping that there would be some sort of law in place
to prohibit like night pollution.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :They have to be dark sky compliant.
THERESA MCKLASKY : Dark sky compliant oh that's the term.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All lights now have to be. You know he can put in one of those timer
things that light up you know that turn on and off,at dusk and dawn that gets bright from
motion and goes back to dim but you know all of the lighting on exterior buildings now in the
town have to conform to that. No more great big flood lights lighting up the sky even though
they might look pretty in the trees we don't do that now. Anything else from the Board?
THERESA MCCLASKY : I have one more question,,will he be able to if you could possibly address
the drainage on your portion of the property that's forming now, is that something you could
BRAD PIECUCH : It's covered in the building plan I believe.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You have to address the Board. You can talk to each other.out there
but in here you have to talk-to us.
BRAD PIECUCH : So actually what we plan to do after the garage is actually is plant more
vegetation to help with drainage and erosion and you know. We have a beautiful property and
we're going to keep it beautiful, we're not like you know defacing the neighborhood and we
can't even you know like I said there's woods basically,between our properties so you really
can't even see the garage.
THERESA MCCUASKY : But those are woods that are (inaudible) behind so thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The new set of drawings that you brought in showing the one story
structure. Since the survey says to be determined about the stair what we're going to condition
that it will be an open rafter unfinished structure with no stair
BRAD PIECUCH : I don't know why he did that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Maybe_it was a carryover from the previous it might have been left
from the previous drawing. This is all done on auto cad and this happens.
BRAD PIECUCH : All I told him'was we have to,take the stairs out and take the dormers out
which,he did.
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September 12, 2019 Regular Meeting
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN . Right and he dust left that vestigial thing hanging, what does not
show on here and it typically doesn't but will be in the decision is that you're going to put
gutters and leaders on this building.
BRAD PIECUCH : Absolutely.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And there would have to be drainage.
BRAD PIECUCH : It,still has to meet town code.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It has to meet town code.
BOARD ASSISTANT : What was the other condition you were mentioning?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No removal of the trees'other than the three that are on here,
gutters and leaders on the subject thing and the interior shall remain as an open raftered
structure with only one slab, garage slab, no storage above, unheated, no plumbing and only
electric non-habitable and have to put gutters and leaders on this thing that is discharged on
site into a drywell.
BRAD PIECUCH : So there's no way I can put like a little heater in there if I work in my garage in
the winter?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well if you want to stick an electric space heater
BRAD PIECUCH : Yeah some sort of heat.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's an appliance a portable appliance. That's not like you put in in
the wall a heating,unit.
BRAD PIECUCH : No a garage heater,or a space heater.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : A space heater is fine as long as it meets fire code or you might burn
yourself to death.
MEMBER DANTES : Like a little (inaudible) heater?
BRAD PIECUCH : Yeah something like that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's not a problem.
MEMBER DANTES : I think it's permitted by code too.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yeah it's like putting a microwave.,
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BRAD PIECUCH : What I'm just trying to do is put a garage to store my cars that's it. I'm not
going to move people in, I'm not building bathrooms.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay I think we got it. There is no one else in the audience to
address the application and no other comments from the Board members so I'm going
to make a motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date is there a second?
MEMBER DANTES : Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
MEMBER LEHNERT : Aye.
MEMBER PLANAMENTO : Aye.
MEMBER DANTES : Aye.
MEMBER ACAMPORA : Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution)
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CERTIFICAT10N
I Elizabeth Sakarellos, certify that the foregoing transcript of tape recorded
Public Hearings was prepared using required electronic transcription equipment
and is a true and accurate record of Hearings.
Signature
Elizabeth Sakarellos
DATE : September 23, 2019
A
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